But then, they get into the fun part:
In response to Stephanopoulos’ question, "But, you wouldn’t rule it [VP] out completely," Edwards stated: "I’d take anything he [Obama] asked me to think about seriously."
"But obviously this is something I’ve done and it’s not a job that I’m seeking."
It was nice of Edwards to first say that Senator Obama has great choices. Who among those other choices made news recently?
In her veto of a Voter ID bill passed by the Kansas legislature last month, Kathleen Sibelius offered this ringing defense of the right to vote, and the state’s role in protecting that right:
Here in Kansas and across the country, we have seen a record number of new voters active in the election process. Secretaries of State across the country are anticipating record-breaking turnout in November. We must take advantage of this opportunity to engage the next generation of leaders and decision makers in the political process, and ensure their participation continues throughout their lifetimes.
Additionally, no elected official should support enacting new laws discouraging or disenfranchising any American who has been legally voting for years. I cannot support creating any roadblock to prevent our citizens from adding their voices to the democratic discourse that makes our nation great.
The Secretary of State’s office is charged with the oversight of elections in Kansas and our hard working county clerks and election officials deserve thanks for ensuring the integrity of the democratic process. I have the utmost confidence in their diligence to guarantee secure and fair elections across our state. HB 2019 seeks to solve a problem of voter fraud which does not exist in our state due to the tireless efforts of our local election officials.
Excellent framing there: we know voter fraud doesn’t exist, why are state legislatures passing laws against it? Surely they aren’t trying to disenfranchise people!
Out of the Veepstakes by their own hand this week: Governor Ted Strickland of Ohio, who was about as clear as one can be about these things:
“Absolutely not. If drafted I will not run, nominated I will not accept, and if elected I will not serve.”
Accepting Virginia Democrats’ nomination for a race for John Warner’s United States Senate seat against the hapless former GOP Presidential candidate Jim Gilmore (who?) yesterday was Mark Warner, who also seemed to definitively rule out a race for the Naval Observatory:
"Let me be clear about this: I have been working very hard these last few months to ask the people of Virginia to give me the honor of being their United States senator," Warner said. "I will not seek, and I will not accept, any other opportunity."
That’s as close as politicians get to Shermanesque statements. For those keeping track at home, as we parse the words of those who aspire — or don’t — to move in after the Cheneys, here’s what General Sherman said:
"If drafted, I will not run; if nominated, I will not accept; if elected, I will not serve."
That was about the Presidency, of course. Those who seek to move to the pixellated world of One Observatory Circle have to dance more delicately: availability-if-asked is best, while active seeking is frowned upon — and surrogates are told to pipe down.
In Wisconsin this weekend, as Democrats gathered for their state convention, an unofficial and unscientific straw poll showed attendees favor Hillary Clinton, Bill Richardson, and John Edwards as running mates for Senator Obama.
Of the 259 votes cast in the straw poll, 49 went to the former first lady.
Far more intriguing was the fact that an almost equivalent total — 44 votes — was recorded for New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, another former contender for the Democratic nod. Richardson’s campaign faded early, long before Wisconsin’s February 19 primary, but he retains a healthy level of support among the state’s most active Democrats.
Former North Carolina Senator John Edwards, the party’s 2004 vice presidential nominee and a candidate for this year’s presidential nod, won 34 votes. That’s to be expected, as Edwards almost won Wisconsin’s 2004 presidential primary and had a well-organized Wisconsin campaign — backed by Congressman Dave Obey and a number of legislators — before he dropped out of this year’s competition.
Retired General Wesley Clark, a 2004 presidential contender who toyed with running this year and has visited Wisconsin many times — most recently as a Clinton backer — received 27 voters.
The best finish for a contender who has never mounted a presidential bid went to Virginia Senator Jim Webb, who has been actively positioning himself as a candidate for the No. 2 place on the ticket. The former Secretary of the Navy under Ronald Reagan, who has remade himself as a populist Democrat, took 32 votes.
Delaware Senator Joe Biden, who chairs the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and impressed many observers with his debate performances as a long shot presidential candidate before finishing fifth in January’s Iowa caucuses, won 12 votes, as did Kansas Governor Kathleen Sebelius.
In his column in the San Francisco Chronicle today, David Sirota pushed the Overton Window open wide for an economic populist Veep pick:
That means for Obama to really draw the most effective general-election contrast, the smart vice presidential pick is not Clinton, but an anti-Clinton – and there are many of them.
In the Senate, there is Sherrod Brown, Amy Klobuchar, Jim Webb or Claire McCaskill – all economic populists. In the statehouse, there is Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer – a guy who told the New York Times, "I was a critic of NAFTA, I was a critic of CAFTA and I’ll be a critic of SHAFTA." And outside the electoral arena there are people like Anna Burger – a leader of one of the largest labor unions, who was recently hailed by the Wall Street Journal as one of the 50 most influential women in America.
Chris Dodd? Pat Leahy? Bill Nelson? Sheldon Whitehouse? Each offers credentials and electoral math in his favor. All offer the downside of a GOP governor ready to appoint his replacement. In a Senate where we might be close to sixty votes for cloture, can we afford to give Joe Lieberman that kind of power again?
I would like to see Barbara Boxer’s name mentioned more often in these speculative discussions; she’s a fighter for women’s rights and the environment, despite her friendship for and (thus) advocacy of Joe Lieberman in Connecticut in summer 2006. I also want to see Russ Feingold’s name floated as a contender. And if we are taking the battle to all fifty states this year, why not put on our ticket the primary proponent of the Fifty-State Democratic Party, Howard Dean?
And while we are talking about governors, how about New York’s David Paterson or Deval Patrick of Massachusetts? Is there some reason Barack Obama shouldn’t consider them? Bill Clinton made a "reinforcing choice" of another DLC Southern white male in Al Gore in 1992; we haven’t heard much about Barack Obama reinforcing his strengths with Paterson or Patrick….
Did you catch the governor of Tennessee, Phil Bredesen, downplaying his chances of being selected two months ago?
"This is not something that I’ve been seeking," Bredesen said. "I think there are other people out there who have been actively seeking it, and I think that’s much more likely of an outcome."
While Bredesen says it’s nice to be mentioned, at this point he’s taking most of the rumors as just that–rumors. But he says it’s not that way for everyone in the Bredesen family tree.
"My mother loves it, and every time I see a news article, I clip it and send it to my mother," he said. "She’s the only one who takes it seriously."
Yeah, but then:
Bredesen gained national attention again last week for another reason altogether. After a lengthy state of apparent indecision, Bredesen got on Illinois Sen. Barack Obama’s presidential bandwagon with a very late in the game endorsement. The fair-weather nod for Obama came also with a quip from Bredesen about how Tennessee is probably not in play in 2008 for the Democratic ticket.
Tennessee went for Bush in both his campaigns. Would a term-limited Democratic governor put the state in play? I wonder if Bredesen has the machine to win the state for the top of the ticket if he’s on it.
Feeding the High Broderist Villager narrative, Walter Shapiro delves the crossover and media possibilities for both parties in an unfortunately concluded paragraph published in Salon last Thursday:
About this time in the veepstakes, there is often a flurry of talk about erasing party lines in the quest for an unconventional path to an electoral majority. McCain himself was on John Kerry’s 2004 short list. And this time around, Joe Lieberman (McCain) and Chuck Hagel (Obama) have the requisite crossover appeal. But there is an even bolder way of reaching out to the other side — taking an esteemed figure from the media. In the old days, first Walter Cronkite and then Bill Moyers were mentioned by that powerful offstage figure called the Great Mentioner (a wonderful title invented by columnist Russell Baker). Tom Brokaw and — maybe even in the right light — Tim Russert might fit that familiar-but-above-the-fray profile today.
Oops, nobody could have anticipated….
(But at least I have brought this Sunday Late Nite post full circle, and still avoided the topic I promised myself I would avoid tonight.)
All in all, I agree with the Reverend Al Sharpton, who had this to say about who should be picked for the job:
“I have two words to say about who Obama should select and they are, ‘Obama’s choice,’” said Rev. Sharpton. “If we have the confidence to select him as our candidate I believe that people should have the confidence to allow him to select a running mate,” he said.
Neverthless, who would you recommend Barack Obama consider for his Veep?
{YouTube from ABC’s This Week courtesy of NCDem}
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Jus Cogens!
must resist the zed
Teddy! Suz!
I would recommend Teddy Partridge for Barack Obama’s Veep!
Teddy!
I nominate Christy.
Hello, tw3k! Resistance is futile.
Hello CT, how is your father’s day?
Hi Suzanne!
Tex, the Veep’s gotta be 35, just like the Prez. Our CHS won’t qualify, I’m sure.
Didn’t LBJ utter those same words in ‘68?
i think so.. if not those same words, words very similar
I listened to Brian Schwietzer on Washington Journal the other day I came away pretty unimpressed to tell you the truth. He wasn’t at all he what I expected, he damn sure isn’t progressive, I would think him definite step backward.
And no former Republicans! Some will say I am being overly picky, I would say it’s just part of that “More & better Democrats” deal. I keep slogging along with it, but damn, it gets awful hard sometimes.
I’m enjoying some time with my folks, altho they’re not home right now, they’re at a wedding…!
Accordingly, I shall not seek, and I will not accept, the nomination of my party for another term as your President.
Evening all. An intriguing topic, Teddy. Just let me say once again, YOU CANNOT HAVE GOV. SCHWEITZER! We need him too much right now here in Montana (where he is pretty much a shoe in for re-election. Come back in four years, when he will be termed out. Then we can talk about the national stage (though personally I would like to see him replace the useless bluedog Baucus).
Good evening, Teddy.
Hate to say this, and it’s not a decision I agree with, but I think Senator Obama will go with Wes Clark.
I’ve just turned off the re-run of NBC’s The Russert Wake, so you’ll forgive me if I struggle to avoid The Topic. I spent most of the day searching the all-too-rich RUSSERT category at Media Matters, and then decided to wait a bit before publishing what I’d found under the heading “Lest We Forget….”
But as to the Wake: what a bunch of self-indulgent Villagers. Every workplace needs a wake, okay, we get it — but just because you have teevee cameras doesn’t mean they must be ON.
It was lovely to see Mrs Carville, though, in her leather top made from baby seals, with yellow capri pants. Who’s her media consultant, anyway?
Heh, you’re good…! ;-)
Woah, wtf, I gotta read this or what!?!?!?
weiner wankers at a wake
That’s pretty tacky dress for a wake – but then we know she has no taste.
per wiki
I remember reading at the time that the “shall/will” distinction (now long discarded) showed the schoolteacher in Lyndon.
Walter Shapiro had better buy himself a clue if he doesn’t realize how radioactive HoJo has become to Dems.
Why do you think he’ll decide on Clark? Gut feeling?
Oh goody! I eagerly await that post and the opportunity to speak ill of the dead.
Teddy, now now… calm down… don’t wreck your own thread by talking about you know who. The VP choice is much more important.
Look who she married.
ha ha ha, f00ker
McInsane Flip-flop…
First…
then…
Good Evening Teddy and Firedogs,
wow Mr Partidge – meaty post and damn thorough as well. The brain is ping ponging names/advantages/liabilities . . .
still think it’s gonna be Sibelius for all my prev stated reasons
but hey, Finegold might pass electability muster – omfg the anti-cheney
It’s shallow, but I believe the great height disparity may mitigate against a Clark candidacy.
And, Clark highlights quite unflatteringly, Obama’s perceived lack of defense chops. He says he’ll take a back seat to no one on foreign policy, and choosing a former general plays into the lack. Better to choose a governor, some say, with only domestic experience. Or a governor, others say, with lots of foreign policy expertise. Like Richardson.
Two things. I haven’t been around as much as I would like lately … Teddy San Fran has morphed into Teddy Partridge?
Absolutely no to Jim Webb. My ex-wife (an HRC backer) cannot stand him, and I suspect a lot of progressive women will feel the same.
Hiya All,
Loved all posts today, but especially Dave’s Father’s Day and Eli’s Book Salon.
Honestly, I don’t think another Senator should be his Veep, altho, I certainly like Edwards since he’s not particularly busy at the moment…!
Yes, but there are practical reasons as well.
First, it’s a feint to Senator Clinton.
Second, Southern.
Third, Military credentials – unassailable by McCain.
Fourth, VP’s aren’t all in the mold of Shooter – keep them in the dark most of the time, and use them where they have relevant experience.
Teddy – I think that with Obama being who he is, almost no one will be too heavy at the bottom of the ticket, regardless of the contrasts.
Just a hunch.
Can he run for governor and Veep at the same time, as LBJ and Lieberman ran for Senate and Veep concurrently? And what if he wins both, how would his successor be determined? I’ve heard (at Orangerie, probably) that the Democratic bench in Montana is weak, but who might succeed him?
I’ve been waved off Napolitano for the same reasons (and others) but I think you’d better get used to your Gov being in contention.
As someone who remembers the Tawana Brawley debacle in NYC back in the day I never thought I would find myself standing strongly shoulder to shoulder with Al Sharpton, but he’s absolutely right. I just wish the Sunday Morning Gasbags and all the rest of the Very Important Pundits And Analysts would just STFU.
Schweitzer would bring along the undecided white males quite nicely
Margot, how are you?
okay
(hi!)
Hello AC- well, I can respond to first point- yes, same Teddy.
I’ll bet they had some really nice 30 year old Jamisons Irish Whisky. I would have probably attended and paid homage to the great man simply to drink mass quantities of free (operative word) shots and commiserate with any and all.
I think Shapiro suggested Joe for McCain. Joe is radioactive to knowledgable Democrats, but many independents see him as having “bipartisanship,” that commodity they’ve learned from High Broderist Villagers to value highly.
I think a McCain/Lieberman ticket would be the most difficult to defeat.
HoJo…? ;-)
Some of us still fight the good fight… I use the subjunctive case, and “whom,” and still understand that people are “hanged” not hung, which is what we do to beef if we want good steaks…
I want Edward for AG. Anti-trust has been non-existant and God know we need some. The idea of having frims too big to fail seems like a bad thing and bugs the shit out of me.
Yes
Jim Webb: former Reaganite,
former(?) sexist, pro-telecom immunityNot on my short list, nosiree
Heh. How long has he been referred to as “Timmeh” here? It’s gonna be a LOOOOONG post…
I thought it was clothes that got “hung”.
I am actually not sure how his replacement would be determined. You heard right about the Democratic bench. A combination of #@^%&$! term limits (a GOP plot to unseat Democratic candidates they can’t beat) and 12 years of Republican domination have left us pretty weak. There are a handful of good people available, but I am not sure if they have the same level of support statewide (Schweitzer has an approval rating in the 60s).
Funny.
But I mean weighty, sharply contrasting with Obama’s policy experience for instance.
What you’re talking about is the yuck-factor.
Probably not. Democrats here are not well organized, we barely were able to find someone to run against Lamar (is he still alive? per Atrios, no link because blogger is blocked in China) Alexander. Bredesen is way right on economic policy. One of his first acts was to “repair” the Workers Comp system here to protect the interests of business. He is not a good speaker, he drones.
And I need to read what I write before hitting submit.
Betcha you still cringe at the misused its and it’s too, don’t you? Me too — but it’s the distinction I gave up correcting when the century began its turn.
Okay. I read that. What gets the slime off? Brain bleach won’t do it, and I wasn’t warned to put on my Hazmat suit…
So, you heard the one about the plastic surgeon who hung himself?
Sorry … I’l go sit in the corner and be quiet now.
Body should be cold enough by now.
Or do we have to wait for the MSNBC wake to end?
Webb? No. Not a good idea, and I think his initial public reaction (”NO!”) was the best one. Richardson should certainly be on the short list, and his more-than-public break with HRC makes me feel better about his independence from such things as the DLC. Also he brings some ideas about Energy policy as policy not slogans, I think which might be welcome thing in the next four years.
Obama is a pretty decent guy, and a wonderful candidate but I too want to see what he’s gonna do with cabinet appointments and such. It will tell us all a lot about his thinking and the direction he wants to take this country.
Oh, Marion. I think of “that/which” — Chicago Manual of Style still haunts me.
For a chart- and graph-heavy analysis of why Edwards should be Obama’s choice, please check out this study at OpenLeft. I didn’t link it up in the post because I was afraid you all would get lost in it — it’s quite impressive and dense.
I gave up telling that one when too many people would stand there and wait for me to finish.
It will never end. If I hear one more lionization of a mediocre interviewer and lousy journalist I will throw something at the TV.
You may be right, but holy crap — can you IMAGINE having to listen to the pair of them on some news show? The sound of those two voices together… I’m searching for bamboo skewers to stab into my ears…
Round about when Bush stole the WH, eh?
I kin unnerstan that.
Howard Dean please! Eloquent, passionate, and now much more experienced and knowledgeable.
Currently serving Senators? -> No.
“This is nonsense, up with which I shall not put.”
(Winston Churchill?)
Them too. Pretty much anything that isn’t human…
Where I am from (Oklahoma) that is the way we generally feel about those who are hung. s/
I do like Richardson! He has the real bona fides in both Foreign and Domestic policy…! I’m sure it’d boost Obama’s Latino numbers, too…!
Oh, gawd… don’t even get me started on plural possessives… I’m sure you read “Eats, Shoots and Leaves,” which made me howl with delight.
You are past incorrigable!!!! I made that up….heh, heh…bad, bad, bad..
You are in detention. Again…..
Hey AC, I think about this everyday! I love words.
I loved that book. Laughed all the way through.
It would be a good idea to do some research. Is there a Lt Governor? Who succeeds a sitting Governor? Does that successor fill the entire unexpired term, or would there be a special, out-of-sequence election to fill the void?
I’m proposing that research so you would be able to say, NO — and here’s why! Or, better yet, allow his name to be considered and perhaps have him selected without losing the opportunity to keep the governor’s mansion.
He’s in the running, regardless of what I say about it. *g*
707! We’re in a round room this evening — there are no corners!
Well, I for one, am THRILLED that Russert’s death has migrated to very low on the front page of the online NYTimes. I was afraid it was to be Reagan treatment for Timmeh. Not watching TV, I’ve managed to effectively insulate myself.
Veep? I’d like to see Edwards.
I recomend you keep sponges on the coffee table. *g*
Janet Napolitano Arizona governor? Also good and younger than most.
another Gore run? as James Cravenville said….? I’d guess not. Too controversial.
but the above mentioned woman might be the best choice: she has to do something other anyway as her term of governor will be over due to term limits in Kansas: Kathleen Sebelius effective, able to win in a Republican dominated state and very pro education, pro environment and admittedly attractive and personable. A winner!
Hi, fine here, cool even.
And you’re crazy.
Bwah-hahahaha!!!!!
Me too. Yet another reason why I’ll be so very glad to see Crawford get their village idiot back come late January … what he does to our language ought to be punishable by law.
Interesting data, but as to graphical presentation, sux. He’s connecting dots like they trend lines- should be bar graphs. Geez- Bushco really has wrecked science education.
Me? I have a basket of rolled up socks…
I shut the TV.
I am highly aggravated that Stew did not get to appear on national TV to collect his one Tony so that they could show “The Little Mermaid” and “Young Frankenstein”.
I’ve got it. Lieberliar will replace Russert, because he is “known” to be neutral and has no job in the foreseeable future..
Wahhhh, wahhhh, wahhhh, Iran, bomb, Iran, wahhhh, wahhh, wahhh..
Isn’t that what they want right now?
Shoot me now, put me out of my misery…I can’t take it anymore…
There aren’t really any currently serving US Senators who are progressive enough to suit me, from states with Democratic governors that also matter in the Electoral College except:
Russ Feingold & Sherrod Brown
Really, she is so bad…I dunno…
*making mental note to stock up on sponges and rolled up socks for the lake in addition to the usual brain bleach order*
I know you laughed, I heard you laugh.
It goes to the Lt. Gov. for the full term, which in this case is a Republican. A moderately sane Republican (at least by Montana’s dismally low standards), but still.
Yes. I am officially a “crazy”…woo, woot!!! But, you know that…
Thanks for the post Teddy, haven’t given the VP a lot of thought.
1. HRC.
She brings a ton in Ohio, PA, and the border states. Some Dems would rather be on a stage with her than with Obama.
She’s got
extremely high name recognitionrock-star status which translates into big crowds and LOTS of free media coverage.Her husband brings those same rock-star qualities. Each of them can raise big money and they can at least blunt Lieberman’s fund raising in the NE and Florida.
I don’t see any other Democrat who can deliver anything close to the electoral punch that HRC brings. Yeah I know there is baggage. I just think it’s easier to find a liberal in NY to replace her in the Senate than some of the other names being thrown around.
2. Sebelius (who I’d hate to lose as a Governor).
I’ll support whomever Obama selects.
IMHO, Feingold would be wasted as VP, too valuable the Senate. I think Edwards will be terrific somewhere in the Cabinet.
Here’s the thing about Richardson: he was on Gore and Kerry’s very short lists, but he’s got a reputation problem with his treatment of women, enough to vet him out of consideration. Apparently, it’s not a zipper problem, but it’s a “cultural” problem. He’s a sexist, they say, but not a philanderer.
I can’t see someone with that reputation soothing the roiling waters, can you?
Well, I’m a happy camper because we finally had a rollicking thunderstorm followed by a good, long soaking rain today. I’m also a tired camper, and my alarm clock’s going to screech at me in about 6 hours so I’m outta here. Sleep well, and know that when you wake up tomorrow there will be only 218 days of W left.
Yessireebob…that would be me…..
Hiya Suz… brain bleach? I have a gallon or 12, have had it since Jan 2000. It works well…
yikes, i’m gonna have nightmares
g’nite marion
hey jofish, congrats
oh, and DrDick- I hope you will support me on this- the graphic stuff. It’s similar to language usage, but even more insidious.
I’m fairly sure I saw Senator Ted Stevens court side at the Lakes/Celtics playoffs….. twice….
worse than Matalin Carville, you think?
I think nonplussed has the makings of a nice cup of coffee at #42.
Whipped cream?
I do like Sebelius, and I think HRC would make a terrific Secretary of Health & Human Services, if she would take it.
Here’s the thing about Janet Napolitano: there’s no Democratic bench in Arizona, and I’m told there’s no Lt Governor either, iirc. The state would fall into GOP hands, and the Democratic party into the hands of corporatists. I like the idea of making Old Lord McCain contest Cindy’s home state, but my favorite Arizonan, katymine, has asked me to take her out of my speculations for the same reason DrDick asked me to omit Montana’s Gov Brian — she’s all they’ve got.
Governor Napolitano is also, um, single.
Hey jayt! Howard Dean sure works for me although his name had not occurred to me till you mentioned it. At least we know he is a straight shooter and squeakly clean and a hard working patriot.
thanks, Suz!
hahahaha…good addition to the team…
I like Sebelius, too. But I hear she might run for Senate. Can’t have to many dem Senators.
I thought so too, at first — but as I read, I decided his comparisons of lower and upper bounds perhaps required the lines, in order to see the differences between the different ranges. But yes, at first the resemblance to trend lines was off-putting.
Perhaps you could suggest a way for him to show his data better?
She is pretty good, but she really reminds me of Janet Reno…
How about Reese Witherspoon for VP…she did great when she went to Harvard…
Gives an entirely new meaning to “spongeworthy”
Thanks for that link, Teddy. I didn’t watch sunday morning heads.
It was rather a lengthy piece, starting with Russert and going through Obama and taxes and the stress many of of us are living with and finally, got to your thread title. Si, I was wondering why you chose the length of that, but, I guess it doesn’t matter.
I do love John Edwards. nuff said.
You know, you didn’t Have to watch the rerun of the wake. There is so much in the world to watch and feel and do. But, you watch what you want to.
Still, I’m glad I got to watch that cute John being interviewed.
And, thank you for not putting up a clip of that Mrs. Carville. That might have ruined my Sunday evening.
It’s tea time! To work against that Stress thingy.
who is also, um, single and we know how she got treated by the gop
Yep there are rumors…. about Gov Janet….. single woman in her 50’s… the worst the wingers can say out loud is that (whisper loudly) is that she wears sensible shoes…..
SO do most nurses over 40…..
Wes Clark campaigned in Fargo for ‘04. Impressive, and not just because of the resume. And hey, then I’d have signed books from both on the ticket…what’s not to like about that.
This weekend’s hagiographic homage to Mr. Russert was yet another reason to remind me that I really miss Peter Jennings.
groan
You are right. Those graphs make absolutely no sense and are confusing. We are conditioned to read that kind of chart as a trend line and they are showing results for different subgroups (states in this case). Really bad graphics.
Howard Dean’s named in the post! *sniff*
I actually like Hillary for the Supreme Court. I can hear Scalia howl now. ;-)
OH BOO -I so rarely disagee with you but me thinks Hillary would be the last vp Obama needs – too much baggage including Bill and his ego.
Wouldn’t you just pay big bucks to be the fly on the wall in chambers?
That is exactly my point…I think she is outstanding…but you know they will eat her alive…
Yes, and that would be a definite benefit. That and the fact that HRC would be able to plague the wingers for the rest of her natural life and they couldn’t do a damn thing about it.
You do it with double bars for each state, the same as you would for men/women or Dem/Ind voters.
Graphical representation is really important, and I wish you two would take Paul’s data and find a better way for him to show it. It’s really hard to read it the way he’s got it, and he could use the help, I think. It’s important to share our areas of expertise throughout the progressive blogosphere, don’t you agree?
(Although I no longer correct its/it’s anywhere)
Teddy! Point taken! Easy to be a critic! I would have gone with bar graphs, but that is only because when I do those excel chart thingies, they are for a scientific audience of critics. Bar graphs would be scientifically correct because there is no relation causal relationship bet. the various states. But, however you do it, making those graphs/ charts in excel is a real pain. Nonetheless, I’ve seen too many bad examples of the way that data is presented (misrepresented) not to have had a knee jerk reaction.
I really have doubts about Hillary because Obama has the right to be prez the way he wants to – not have “two for the price of one” looking over his shoulder. I could go with any of the people who ran for prez this time. That was an outstanding group. Well, Gravel was funny.
I betcha there will be this big lull and then..surprise…HRC for VP….
Fine, great…just keep McConfusion out.
Gov Janet would NOT let anyone eat her alive…. She is a former US Attorney AND former Attorney General for Arizona…… She is one tough broad…. She stands toe to toe with some of the wackiest wingers that can only be found in AZ…..
Just that we need her to stay in place until the AZ Democratic Party builds its bench…. we are working on it… I am hoping that on the Congressional level we will have a 6 Dem to 2 Repugs … AND McBush is up in 2010… THEN Janet can punt his a*s to the curb..
Are there any non-politician types you can think of who might be eligible and worthy? You know, like Warren Beatty or Sean Penn or Howie Klein?
I would love to see Old Lord McCain lose his Senate seat in 2010, and she’s the one to do it.
Now you’re talking – Hillary on the Supreme would be the ideal way to make Bill to just STFU and on a leash poltically. If he continues to embarrass her and us she should just divorce the schmuck.
Sheen?
Teddy! As that trex person used to say, DrDick and I will get right on it ;) Sorry, just kidding. Do you really think that this kind of data re: Edwards would have that much of an influence as to getting Edwards to run? I don’t, frankly. But, if I did, I would go on a tear about it, trust me.
DAMN Damn damn….. Lakers won…. Now will not see Elmore until June 22nd… booooo
Oh yes yes yes!
Edwards, Dean, Feingold, Dodd (though CT would be in definate dire straits then, deservedly so, I should say—grrrrrrr).
I would also love to see Elizabeth Edwards on Obama’s team, and wish for her health often and heartily.
Robert Reich, too.
fork
There is also another type of graph (can’t remember the name) which plots the mean and the range. Looks kind of like this only vertical: |—*—| for each data point. This is probably the best way for him to present his data since it show the upper and lower limits of the effect as well as the midpoint.
Hiya Bets.
Assuming that Stevens or Ginsburg will be retiring before the rest – don’t we want to push a LIBERAL for that seat?
I’m not sure I see Hillary as a move to balance the court. We could do worse, though.
Baldwin?
I heard her this morning, she is very, very impressive, smart and articulate in every way. The “eat her alive” reference was that her image is similar to Janet Reno…they will attack her. If she is able to deflect that while running with the first African American candidate…more power to her.
Hey doodle.
Your kind words are much appreciated (thanks for you very nice compliment on a prior thread about leading by doing).
I completely agree with you about the baggage.
digg
You all are just in love with them DLC folks aren’t you? I just can’t quite get over the way that one moment everyone is for “More and Better Democrats” and the next we’re touting either ex-Republicans or DLC people. Perhaps some of the wiser people here can explain to me why this is a good strategy. I know Obama has selected an odious Hamilton Plan economic adviser, so we should all get ready to have it stuck up out butts some more, but damn people! Can’t we push back a little? This is the only time for the next for years we have any strength at all to negotiate (however small it is) with the would be executive. I hate to let it go by jumping up and throwing our support to the Corporatist’s candidate.
dugg and thanks
Recording of conversation with daughter.
forking fingers.. dugg
LS – are you still around?
Yup.
Crawford has been stage props. He isn’t from there and (I heard) doesn’t plan to go back there. I hear he’s headed for the big city of Dallas.
We already did. Both Obama and Clinton are part of the corporatist wing of the party, though he is less so than she is IMHO. The only noncorporatist in serious contention was Edwards. I am not sure who else you are lumping as corporatist.
That’s not far enough.
Question:
What would be your opinion of a Presidential candidate who professes that he does not use a computer?
Doesn’t know how to use the internet?
They move Dallas to Paraguay?
my preference is that he heads to the hague
Um, I’m pushing for progressives to be actively added to the list, and would love to hear the names you have in mind.
Or Sheehan.
either works well for me.
;)
Houston is more his speed: sprawling, tasteless, and polluted.
Hiya Katymine… when’s the vacation scheduled to start?
Ha!
Hmmm…maybe I should move to Paraguay…hmmmmm…kinda like insider trading…Oy.
Fly out on June 26th from Portland OR to Paris….. Will fly to Portland on June 20th ….. drive down to the Oregon coast to see my parents…
Well, you can go ahead and add Dennis Kucinich to the list in my honest opinion.
I asked one of my sources about the VP question. He said the people who are naming names are uninformed, and the people who know who’s really on the list aren’t talking.
I second that emotion.
Fun, fun, fun!!!
And, as a general note- anyone who is interested in the visual display of information should check out books by Edward Tufte. My favorite is “The Visual Display of Quantitative Information” It is not a dry scientific tome, by any means- really, it’s almost an art book, and really enormously entertaining. And, therein I learned the phrases “data to ink ratio” and “chart junk”. http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/books_vdqi
Link to his website follows, tho I gotta say that for someone with the visual chops that he has, the visual presentation is just plain awful.
http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/
oooooo, what else did your source say?
You’re right. That was not good.
I’ve heard that too … and hope it’s not true, but fear it is. (I live in the northern suburbs of Dallas.)
Hopefully he’ll head back to Connecticut. Home of the Rexall Ranger. He has embarrassed us enough, I’ve had a gutful of slurs, insults and vulgarities thrown at me due to that Yankee asshole that everyone thinks it is so goddamn funny too blame on us down here-feel free to go ahead and cue your favorite derogatory Texas joke here! Not only is he and his immediate family a bunch of high born Robber Barons from the Northeast, he’s a damned Carpetbagger to boot.
Have fun, and enjoy your trip!
Kucinich is not bad. He is certainly very progressive and I am impressed with his impeachment motion (YEA!). He is, however, a bit “out there” in some ways that would make him vulnerable to GOP attacks. He also does not have much of a following nationally.
Well, I’m talking and I know nothing, so there!
Oh, that’s what you just said. *g*
I’d call him a Luddite. Then I’d send a text message to mess with his head.
♬ ♬
[…whistling…walking away…]
Here is the first leg of that journey… Email from Robert Wexler:
You are so right…we won’t know until we know, and it will be a surprise and it will be enlightening. At this point, it is up to him. Now….if he picks Lieberliar….I will freak the fork out and apply for a visa to Paraguay myself, but I don’t expect that of him at all…
Everyday, you wake up, show up, and see what happens….that is life.
that is so unfair to tease like that eg (laughing)
That is putting it mildly.
Well, there is this:
http://www.motherjones.com/moj…..ins_d.html
he did very well in the debates.
just sayin’
just wanted you to know that i wasn’t blowing you off in the previous thread and that i hung around for this thread as i said i would. that is all.
Interesting stuff to read and great post. TY for JRE!!!! Please let him be AG or VP.
I thought it might be Dodd since he endorsed BO so early on. But Richardson took all that Judas crap from Clinton folks. What happened to Sam Nunn’s name? I heard that strongly for a while, though he has been out of the limelight and age stuff.
Russ Feingold is so valuable in the senate but he is great. Curious about Kathy Sebelius, have heard her speak and respected it. Claire Mc. won a squeaker election, and is more conservative than I like, but what a coup to be a VP after squeaking on into the Senate. And was out there for BO early. Howard Dean would be great. I think the scream episode is behind us. Moyers is a champ!!! But with the younger generation? I hope more than think. Jim Webb is a young star, but again conservative and more military oriented and the sexism accusations?
Richard Reich said HRC wanted SC. I think she would be great for that.
Ironic that Russert encouraged the lengthy and incredibly enthusiastic Reagan commentary.
I think there is a real danger with the news and media “stars” to become emotionally connected to the political stars and that stirs up loyalty. See it with Charlie Rose. Mark Shields, though I love him, seems to have lost his edge. Personalities over principals influence them? Even Jon Stewart with McCain at times gives me pause. Like Oprah endorsing bad movies of her friends. Is it a blind spot or the loyalty thing coming up and betrayal in a way of their public?
Even media pundits that I groove on, have emotionally bonded with Russert and don’t see the legitimate points the alternate media is making about what is appropriate respect and excessive. They are torn in loyalty. Even the politicians might not get it.
But the media is getting some serious attention focused on their conduct and it is so about time.
Everyone from Hollywood has been naked at least once.
Wexler has long struck me as one of the brightest stars in the Congressional universe. Now he shows he’s perhaps one of the most principled too…
Gotcha…sorry for the outburst…couldn’t help it…thanks…
Not saying he doesn’t have his moments or his strengths (he was one of my top two candidates), just that he has some liabilities as well and did not do all that well in the only polls that count, the primaries.
io VP possibles not in mention but worthy of consideration:
Dianne Feinstein, Al Gore, George Mitchell, Sam Nunn, Fritz Hollings, Carl Levin,Republicans Chuck Hagel and John Danforth, Patricia Shroeder, Bob Graham
I’ve been nekkid lots.
If it wasn’t for that natural born citizen rule, I’d say Arnie. If for no other reason than to make conservative heads explode. But on that similar vein, it might also be fun to pull Gray Davis out of mothballs. And doesn’t Jimmy Carter have a son? Maybe even Paul Hackett.
Do you remember he was the one on Stephen Colbert, Colbert manipulated into saying he used cocaine… and then people got excited? He was very cool about that. I am glad he is so tenacious. Like Feingold in the senate, maybe. I hope so.
DrDick! ah, so you checked out the website! LOL. But, the books I’ve seen are wonderful. Sad.
I looked up Hackett..he has “baggage”….na ah…too bad…
Hell, I iz nekkids every night. Fortunately only the cats are around to witness the spectacle (even I close my eyes).
LOVE, LOVE, LOVE PAT SHROEDER! She ran for president for half a second. She once confessed she had trouble getting respect, because she drew a smiley face after she signed her name. But that woman could kick ass in the Senate. I was so sorry when she left.
I do understand your point, and he was also one of my top 2 candidates.
I just think a new and fair look at him (by the Corporate Media) with this Presidential candidate would make me happy.
He’d be strong against any thug McBush chooses.
Heading off to bed…. really bushed…. cross off a lot on my to-do list… now all I have to do is start the packing…. woohoo…
Is that daylight or a halo I see around Edwards?
Where was that recently where Edwards and Obama spoke together: MI?
THAT was an *impressive* tag team.
And Edwards would drag that ol’ Overton Window ‘way over to the pregressive side, wouldn’t he? (Not that my understanding of policy posotions is all that acute, but that’s been my impression.)
me eyes are bleeding!!!!!
Dianne Feinstein!
omg.
I quite agree. How about a nice flat in Fallujah?
Hi libby, thanks!
No on Nunn. He fired two gay staffers, then said he had to because they couldn’t get clearance to do the work of his committee. But he told them both that having gay staffers wouldn’t fly with his Georgia constituents. Then, Bill Clinton didn’t even short-list him for Defense Sec, and so he punished Bill — a LOT — over gays in the military. Finally, he made made the gays in the military issue a circus, with lots of “shower” testimony that resulted in DADT.
Lots and lots of gay supporters will not forgive Obama a Nunn choice. It simply won’t fly. I’ve heard that Jim Johnson, formerly head of Obama’s search committee, was a big Nunn fan. Now that he’s off the team, I hope Nunn’s name doesn’t come up so much.
Now that we’re talking about Nunn, though, I suppose punaise will drop by.
Obama, a corporatist? Hardly his platform
Dr., be vewy caweful awound cats when nekkid.
OK. To Hannibal and Broadbrush. Let’s lay down some basic guidelines here.
1) NO FUCKING REPUBLICANS!
2) No bluedogs, DLCers, or other weasels if we can avoid it.
Oh lordy, do I miss ‘edit’! ‘progressive’, ‘positions’
Teddy, I realize we can’t have it all, but I think we stepping back by looking at any member of the DLC of a former Republican. Let’s look at it objectively, Webb is anti-war and pro-troop, but as far as most Social issues he is still pretty Conservative. That is where the Overton Window gets shifted. I served in the Navy when Webb was SecNav, I have some feel for the man’s general outlook, I think. Granted, times and visions change, I more or less agreed with him back then.
I was a lot more conservative, but I was in the Nav. I still never voted for Reagan, in fact I have never voted Republican in my entire life. I was once fiscally conservative, but I was always socially liberal. Pro-Choice, Decriminalize Marijuana, not legalize so much as ignore it.
Of all the Senators my ideal is Bernie Sanders, obviously, no one would pick him! If push came to shove, realistically, probably Howard, but even Howard Dean, is Dean of Dean-Whittier. What do we do?
“The two greatest obstacles to democracy in the United States are, first, the widespread delusion among the poor that we have a democracy, and second, the chronic terror among the rich, lest we get it.”-Edward Dowling
are your parents on the oregon coast?
I have the scars to prove it.
Whoever is VP, must be instantly “presidential”, because ultimately, that is their job….to be able to step in and be the Leader of Free World…like now…not tomorrow….right now.
Even better than sending him back to Connecticut!
I support picking a governor from one of the swing states who appeals to the segments of the population that Obama has trouble with..Oh- he or she should have exceptional executive ability- something that we don’t know that Obama has yet.
Never heard about any baggage, I know he has a habit of saying exactly what’s on his mind, which is often not an asset in modern politics. Are you talking about either of these incidents?
The Iraqis are suffering quite enough.
We own him– to the Hague!
Thanks for the explanation. I heard his name bandied about for a day or so, and then it disappeared. So sorry to hear that about him.
She is not my favorite but she gets all the Hillaryites takes California and New York out of play which conserves big bucks and makes Florida competitive.
And she won’t be in the Senate to sponsor guys lie Mukasey.
ouch
I am always nekked.. At all times, and so are you…we just cover up with woven materials…cause we’re cold…or cause we’re hot….or cause….
Just because.
Humans look ridiculous in “reality”. We’d look a lot better if we saw each other for who we really are….really….
Toke?
I wasn’t thinking of Wexler for VP. I think his doggedness is great in the House, though. And his organization as in communication seems very effective.
Winner!!
Seriously, can I have some of what you are smoking? John Danforth’s greatest accomplishment was “giving” us Clarence Thomas, Chuck Hagel is a wolf in sheeps’ clothing. Pat Schroeder would make the military fucking nuts (they hated her with a passion) and Bob Graham, who?
PAT COULD PUT COLORADO IN THE PLUS COLLUMN
Yes.
Oh come on, you don’t toke.
Shot?
ok. i’m off then… catch you all later.
Good night firepups.
i ALSO PREFER RED MEAT
There’s also Super Max. Nice quiet cell, no outside contact, essentially solitary confinement. Perfect place for him.
g’nite selise and any other leaving sleepy pup i may have missed
I actually really, really like Wexler. I agree.
And that’s a bad thing? What did she do to the military?
Pain-free restfulness, Bets.
all capitol letters is considered shouting
Night Betsy.
pain free sleep wishes tex
Night y’all.
Really! No way DiFi:>(
Well….I’ll always take a shot today and gladly pay on Tuesday..Love tokes, but they don’t love me..
Link to article in the NYT about Obama’s “management style”
It is not encouraging.
I think I started that. My bad.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06…..0uYJFiSfqA
Please send me som ethat obviously excellent stuff that you are smoking. Thank you very much. Bob Graham is the only person on your list I could possibly support. Patricia Schroeder would lose you a lot of Veteran’s votes, I promise.
Preview works the same..
What baggage? I hadn’t heard of any, that I know of.
NO FUCKING REPUBLICANS!
Happy to oblige.
What if yer married to one??
OK. Now I’m out.
LS- and, Teddy might come and find me if we hijack his thread, so I hope you will just take this info fwiw. So, just take this as a quiet opinion, not to be pursued on this thread. I was also offended. Also see http://firedoglake.com/2008/06…..nt-1496561
DN is managing editor of FDL. The mods have a hard job, and I didn’t see anything that would have risen to the level of a “mod take out”. But, it was quite informative, eh? When people started showing their asses. :) K, please just read. ;)
One toke over the line.
How does that happen?
Follow link at 217….Rovians will descend….
i was thinking he’d get the reception he deserved there. i probably like the idea of the hague best.
Sing it.
Nite and sweet sleep, Betsy.
nite betsy
take care
I don’t think it is a negative review of his management style. Too much central control? Too much delegation? I think he would delegate to competent people when he needed to, unlike Bush.
Thanks VG.
Why, coitainly!
Time for bed. Take care and enjoy. Let me know if you pick Obama’s VP. ;-)
When I hear an executive being described as a “delegator”, alarm bells go off
Everyone delegates but those who are described as delegators are often abdicators like clusterfuck
of course whover wrote this piece probaly knows little about obamas style anyway but he has no executive experience
I may not imbibe at this time in my life, but I surely don’t judge.
g’nite dr dick
Same thoughts here.
And I would hope he would hire competent people, unlike Bush, and take the responsibility to get rid of them if they prove incompetent.
You know, like any good manager would.
BOB gRAHAM ,THE sENATOR FROM fLORIDA AND FORMER CHAIRMAN OF THE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE WHO OPPOSED THE WAR AND WHO MIGHT PUT FLORIDA IN PLAY.That Bob Graham
Obama talks about bi partisanship and these two are moderate in comparison to others. Hagel as a former war hero whose position on Iraq is close to Obama and who has an intelligent world view and Danforth who is known to have crossed party lines and who is an ordained Episcopal Minister and former Governor and Senator from Missouri who (while approving Clarence Thomas he must live with that) has United Nation and quite a varied record of experience which Obama lacks. Missouri is important and the Episcopals that put GW in twice would be out of the picture. While I prefer red meat I could see the practicality of considering these two if not for VP then for Cabinet positions.
Pat Shroeder puts Colorado in serious playand haven’t we had enough of the military’s priorities?
I can’t afford cigarettes under this administration.
.
Teddy! Did you get my Iceland Sock video?
Remember when Obama had to cop to (during one debate) something negative. Confided that he misplaced paperwork easily. Something I couldn’t see HRC or JRE doing for sure. We don’t want a micro-manager.. but you are right. The good thing I heard years ago about GW was that he delegated to competent people. What a nightmare that turned into. And how misleading that press was. We are all projecting a lot of hope on this man. And he does have the charisma and the right words … though generalized… the poetry of progress.
Clinton was rare in wanting to stay up all night exploring stuff and hearing everything everyone wanted to say. But a wide continuum between Clinton and Reagan and Bush who went to bed early, assuming not much homework as pres. I do hope BO closer to the Clinton end of the dial in that respect.
unclaimed late late nite zed upstairs
Dianne Feinstein’s husband is a war profiteer
Al Gore: been there, done that
George Mitchell: hated by baseball fans everywhere
Sam Nunn: see my 206
Fritz Hollings: hmmm
Carl Levin: um, hmmm
Pat Schroeder is a Democrat!
So is Bob Graham, and I like him a lot for Veep. I wish he’d been more persuasive with the caucus on the AUMF, but I think he did what he could.
I don’t want any GOPs on the Democratic ticket, thanks….
(Republicans Chuck Hagel and John Danforth, Patricia Shroeder, Bob Graham)
CNN is now attacking Obama….again..a late night Fox redeux…they wait, and then they attack…Obama’s website has a relief fund….but a FOX-type commentator is attacking him now….
Obama caused the floods…that is next….Shame on them…
I am a veteran but this pentagon’s track record is not my cup of herb
Kinda of a weird thought that most of America is sleeping all at the same time…think about it.
All true and OTOH dear Kucinich has enjoyed an extraordinary record of humanistic if not classic progressive service from mayor to congress to an honorable presidential campaign. He has a brilliant and beautiful wife and proven base, albeit modest by Obama and Hillary comparisons. And who can forget his remarkable idea of a Department of Peace. If nothing else I’d be very happy if Obama would at least meet and talk with Kucinich as a classy acknowledgement of his valiant ideas and achievements.
Sibelius has 22 years of public service, almost all of it executive.
He really does speak to my soul.
Too bad so many in America are not ready for his leadership.
yes, will watch it and email you tomorrow, ‘kay?
No need to shout, thanks. I know who Bob Graham is but the majority of Americans outside his state don’t. Nothing remarkable there. Pat Schroeder took every opportunity she got to try and destroy the military over virtually anything. I’m a lifelong, very liberal Democrat but when I was on Active Duty I got tired of her, and I suspect there are literally hundreds of thousands of vets who don’t remember her in a very good light.
Also weren’t Schroeder and Graham Democrats? I’m pretty sure Schroeder was…
I would like to see Dennis have a distinctive and positive role in a future administration.
Perhaps he could be in charge of war crimes prosecution? He seems to have that subject memorized.
I am a baseball fan and I do not hate George Mitchell. Some feel he has done a service to the game. Peace in Ireland was quite an accomplishment and he is well known and respected in Israel while of Arab ancestry. He knows the world and is not rash which would only bolster an Obama candidacy. He is McCain’s age so would be a one termer as VP.
Al Gore did it pretty well and while probably not inclined might answer the call of his country especially if assigned the task of greening America and confronting Globnal warming.
I throw out the other names because of their obvious advantages in putting states or constituencies in play. Hegel ,I think , has shown leadership in opposing his party in Iraq and as the only member of either party to speak out on Lebanon. Credit where credit is due.
As for Nunn I read 206 and am disappointed. I did not remember that.I only can hope that maybe he has seen the light. It is the southern experience but Senator Byrd from West Virginia opened his eyes and heart.
It seems to me something of a miracle that Dennis Kucinich received as much media attention as he did early in the campaign and his surprise wedding. I like to think Dennis is highly respected by Obama and his top team. My Catholic friends greatly admire him and one is particular was inspired to take a leave of absence from his corporate job to join his primary campaign to help raise money and support from fellow Catholics from auto workers to business leaders. I have no knowledge if Obama has ever met and talked with Kucinich but I certainly hope he has. We need all the experienced and intellectual circles Obama may seek out in this campaign cause it is going to be a long tough road to the White House, despite McCain’s invicilble ignorance and hopelessly inept campaign.
((((((((((Teddy))))))))))
They are both Democrats. Graham is also considered pro military and he did run for President so he has exposure beyond his state.His state is the only reason to really consider him.Florida is important and Obamna is weak there. If you look at things in context with Shroeder, the cold war was over and we expected a peace dividend.
Sebelius, Edwards, Richardson or Dean in no particular order
Oprah
Love Dodd, but he’s too old. The VP spot is to set up a Dem for a Prez run. We have to many elderly politicians already. Also, we need all Dems to stay in place to have controll and fix all the messes AG, etc, that Bush put in place.
With the short Presidential campaign that Obama has now because the primaries were sooo long, we need some one who is already known by the general public. Too late in the game to start with an unknown to Dems in the 50 states.
Edwards or Dean get my vote. Hill on the Supreme Court sounds great to me. There should be another woman to replace Sandra Day O’Conner. And of course, she could give those 4 constitutional desenters hell.
Hillary would be just fine as a Justice, imho.
So would Elizabeth Edwards.
So would so many good female and ah, dare I say it?
Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, and Atheist lawyers of either gender.
Lawyers who have studied, believe and will abide by our Constitution and laws.
So funny you should say that – I was just watching Moyers from a few months ago, and it was the week that Susan Jacoby was his guest.
That clear-thinking, truth-telling is sorely lacking in, well, every place it matters.
I don’t think she is a lawyer, but we could sure use uber-minds like hers in that place.
Saw the same show and it was illuminating– she is a person who should be invited often to the table.
The American people need teachers, not pundits or *&^^%.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/jour…..ript2.html
Thanks for the transcript!
How rare to be thrilled while watching a public affairs program – she brings light and amazing clarity to some very dark and blurry scapes.