Comments on: The Art of Measurement http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/14/the-art-of-measurement/ Firedoglake weblog Wed, 25 Nov 2009 14:24:22 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Knut http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/14/the-art-of-measurement/#comment-1497285 Knut Sun, 15 Jun 2008 14:48:22 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/14/the-art-of-measurement/#comment-1497285 <p>The measurement problem does raise a social Heisenberg principle. This point was forcefully brought home to me by Nancy Folbre’s <em>The Invisible Heart</em> (as opposed to the invisible hand). She persuasively observes that in a whole range of activities — child care, education, medical services, old-age care, and indeed customer care in general — major elements of the ‘output’ do not have a metric, without which market solutions to getting the ‘right amount’ are not feasible. How would you measure the psychological quality of the care your mother receives from an attendant in an Old Age Home? Who monitors that? How is it monitored? She makes the point that these services were traditionally given by women, which may account for their historical subjugation. The service of caring are essential, but it is hard to organize their supply on a pay-for-service basis. Possibly impossible to do so.</p> <p>This is a problem that is not going to go away. If there is a best solution I don’t know what it is. Second or third-best is some kind of social or government provision, as is done in Europe and Canada.</p> The measurement problem does raise a social Heisenberg principle. This point was forcefully brought home to me by Nancy Folbre’s The Invisible Heart (as opposed to the invisible hand). She persuasively observes that in a whole range of activities — child care, education, medical services, old-age care, and indeed customer care in general — major elements of the ‘output’ do not have a metric, without which market solutions to getting the ‘right amount’ are not feasible. How would you measure the psychological quality of the care your mother receives from an attendant in an Old Age Home? Who monitors that? How is it monitored? She makes the point that these services were traditionally given by women, which may account for their historical subjugation. The service of caring are essential, but it is hard to organize their supply on a pay-for-service basis. Possibly impossible to do so.

This is a problem that is not going to go away. If there is a best solution I don’t know what it is. Second or third-best is some kind of social or government provision, as is done in Europe and Canada.

]]> By: Ian Welsh http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/14/the-art-of-measurement/#comment-1496728 Ian Welsh Sun, 15 Jun 2008 02:23:51 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/14/the-art-of-measurement/#comment-1496728 <p>Yeah, I’ve certainly been in a position where the numbers were being completely managed. But then, as in your case senior management was begging for it. Unlike in your case I don’t think they knew they were begging for it. Their problem is they wouldn’t /listen/ to junior management. It was “no, I don’t want to hear why it can’t be done, just get it done.”</p> <p>Makes a fine soundbite, but in fact, sometimes things either can’t or shouldn’t be done (no sir, that’s actually against the law or “we could do that, but it would mean more delays down the line than it would save up front”). So eventually junior management decided the seniors were completely clueless and intent on destroying the department for short term gains and just started lying to them.</p> <p>And so senior management thought everything was going great, but they had really just lost complete control of the department, and the knowledge of what was going on in the department.</p> Yeah, I’ve certainly been in a position where the numbers were being completely managed. But then, as in your case senior management was begging for it. Unlike in your case I don’t think they knew they were begging for it. Their problem is they wouldn’t /listen/ to junior management. It was “no, I don’t want to hear why it can’t be done, just get it done.”

Makes a fine soundbite, but in fact, sometimes things either can’t or shouldn’t be done (no sir, that’s actually against the law or “we could do that, but it would mean more delays down the line than it would save up front”). So eventually junior management decided the seniors were completely clueless and intent on destroying the department for short term gains and just started lying to them.

And so senior management thought everything was going great, but they had really just lost complete control of the department, and the knowledge of what was going on in the department.

]]> By: dude http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/14/the-art-of-measurement/#comment-1496692 dude Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:56:38 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/14/the-art-of-measurement/#comment-1496692 <p>I have not worked in large companies and only briefly in small ones where a manager of some time is involved, so I appreciate the clarification. </p> <p>On the other hand, I have been across the table from corporate clients and been involved in their facilities planning. You said about the MBA trap: ” As a manager you probably don’t really know what your employees are doing. You probably don’t really understand what is required to do the job well. “—-how true, how true. In places like duPont and Procter & Gamble, it is hard to imagine the layers of management and how they operate. Scale matters, but corporate culture and knowing which division made a profit last quarter matter more.</p> I have not worked in large companies and only briefly in small ones where a manager of some time is involved, so I appreciate the clarification.

On the other hand, I have been across the table from corporate clients and been involved in their facilities planning. You said about the MBA trap: ” As a manager you probably don’t really know what your employees are doing. You probably don’t really understand what is required to do the job well. “—-how true, how true. In places like duPont and Procter & Gamble, it is hard to imagine the layers of management and how they operate. Scale matters, but corporate culture and knowing which division made a profit last quarter matter more.

]]> By: Ian Welsh http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/14/the-art-of-measurement/#comment-1496683 Ian Welsh Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:46:06 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/14/the-art-of-measurement/#comment-1496683 <p>It usually is. The key is to keep it really really simple, and if it does require measurement, you use something that seems to being measured for some other reason, and you never ever refer to it, so people can’t game it.</p> <p>Totally in/out time, the example above, while not impossible to game, is very hard to game. If that’s going up while other numbers are going down, there’s something wrong, for example.</p> <p>I’m also a big believer in just walking the floors. Managers, including senior executives, who don’t walk the floor lose all sense of reality about what’s really happening in their company. That and establishing your own, non-official network, right from the mailroom up to the executive board.</p> It usually is. The key is to keep it really really simple, and if it does require measurement, you use something that seems to being measured for some other reason, and you never ever refer to it, so people can’t game it.

Totally in/out time, the example above, while not impossible to game, is very hard to game. If that’s going up while other numbers are going down, there’s something wrong, for example.

I’m also a big believer in just walking the floors. Managers, including senior executives, who don’t walk the floor lose all sense of reality about what’s really happening in their company. That and establishing your own, non-official network, right from the mailroom up to the executive board.

]]> By: PJEvans http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/14/the-art-of-measurement/#comment-1496675 PJEvans Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:41:04 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/14/the-art-of-measurement/#comment-1496675 <p>The company I work at just changed their review schedule from once a year to twice a year - we don’t know why; no one has passed the word down the channels. It’s a pain because we have to enter our ‘goals’ in the computer - and it’s via a program that is not very friendly, although I’d bet that HR can make it jump through hoops.</p> <p>I do QC, and when it backs up everyone thinks I need help, but when my in-basket is empty and my out-basket is full, no one is in a hurry to do anything about it. I shouldn’t have to tell the people who supervise the work what’s going on; those baskets are right in front of their desks.</p> The company I work at just changed their review schedule from once a year to twice a year – we don’t know why; no one has passed the word down the channels. It’s a pain because we have to enter our ‘goals’ in the computer – and it’s via a program that is not very friendly, although I’d bet that HR can make it jump through hoops.

I do QC, and when it backs up everyone thinks I need help, but when my in-basket is empty and my out-basket is full, no one is in a hurry to do anything about it. I shouldn’t have to tell the people who supervise the work what’s going on; those baskets are right in front of their desks.

]]> By: dude http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/14/the-art-of-measurement/#comment-1496668 dude Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:37:35 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/14/the-art-of-measurement/#comment-1496668 <p>I see what you mean.</p> <p>I read a piece some years ago about how public education was modeled first by an Austrian or German educator’s theories. In essence, this educator believed a time-conscious, obedient and modestly skilled worker should be the aim. And from that flowed the system that educated much of Europe in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries. The author of this article (whose name I have forgotten) was a retired NY City public school teacher and he detailed his history nicely. Your argument resonates well with his conclusions and I recognize them in the way public schools operate today.</p> I see what you mean.

I read a piece some years ago about how public education was modeled first by an Austrian or German educator’s theories. In essence, this educator believed a time-conscious, obedient and modestly skilled worker should be the aim. And from that flowed the system that educated much of Europe in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries. The author of this article (whose name I have forgotten) was a retired NY City public school teacher and he detailed his history nicely. Your argument resonates well with his conclusions and I recognize them in the way public schools operate today.

]]> By: dakine01 http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/14/the-art-of-measurement/#comment-1496665 dakine01 Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:33:02 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/14/the-art-of-measurement/#comment-1496665 <p>Privatizing schools by hiring private corporations to run the schools. Dumb things down and steal the money because “the private sector can always do everything more efficiently than the public.” /s</p> <p>It’s not funding the mandates it’s ripping off the taxpayer. They’re real good at that doncha know.</p> Privatizing schools by hiring private corporations to run the schools. Dumb things down and steal the money because “the private sector can always do everything more efficiently than the public.” /s

It’s not funding the mandates it’s ripping off the taxpayer. They’re real good at that doncha know.

]]> By: dude http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/14/the-art-of-measurement/#comment-1496661 dude Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:31:27 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/14/the-art-of-measurement/#comment-1496661 <p>BUT if Federalizing Education really meant more MIlitary Academies–well, then I could see it.</p> BUT if Federalizing Education really meant more MIlitary Academies–well, then I could see it.

]]> By: dude http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/14/the-art-of-measurement/#comment-1496660 dude Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:30:15 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/14/the-art-of-measurement/#comment-1496660 <p>That doesn’t make sense to me. Even NeoCons abhor more Federal spending. Can’t see them wanting to Federalize education—”funding the mandates” they ahve complained about for ages.</p> That doesn’t make sense to me. Even NeoCons abhor more Federal spending. Can’t see them wanting to Federalize education—”funding the mandates” they ahve complained about for ages.

]]> By: Dearie http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/14/the-art-of-measurement/#comment-1496659 Dearie Sun, 15 Jun 2008 01:27:23 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/14/the-art-of-measurement/#comment-1496659 <p>I believe that the neo-cons had their eyes on the school funding money. Since when was the federal guvt given legal status to meddle in a states rights issue? If the neo-cons could show multiple failing schools, they could ’sugggest’ that the school dollars would be better handled by the feds. Simple, really.</p> I believe that the neo-cons had their eyes on the school funding money. Since when was the federal guvt given legal status to meddle in a states rights issue? If the neo-cons could show multiple failing schools, they could ’sugggest’ that the school dollars would be better handled by the feds. Simple, really.

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