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If there is a President Obama come next Jan. 20, normal folks better brace for what the right-wing crazies have in mind. Because it’s becoming clear that they are winding themselves up now for a fresh spate of violence if Obama wins.
You can find the signs in the things they’re saying now, both on Internet forums and in the things they say when they think no one is listening. For instance, read some of the details emerging from that militia bust in Pennsylvania that the media have been studiously ignoring. To wit:
Bradley T. Kahle, 60, of Troutville, was one of five people arrested in last weekend’s sweep. He told undercover agents he hoped Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton or Barack Obama would be killed if they were elected president, and that he would shoot judicial and law enforcement officials if he became terminally ill, according to an affidavit of probable cause made public Tuesday.
"Kahle said words to the effect of, that ‘if Hillary Clinton, or Barack Obama, get elected, hopefully they will get assassinated, if not they will disarm the country and we will have a civil war,’" the affidavit stated.
The same man also told authorities he planned to visit Pittsburgh so he could get on top of a high rise and start shooting black people. And of course, the judge let him go on bail. Would I be crazy to suspect that if he were a Muslim talking about shooting white people from a high rise and hoping John McCain would get killed, no judge on earth would let him go?
In any event, a pattern is already developing, ranging from the Klan fellows who promise that Obama will be shot to the white supremacists who are actually rooting for him to win because they’re certain he will fail. We’re hearing a lot of language from the racist and "Patriot" right indicating that they expect a Democratic president to enact policies (particularly regarding gun control) that will inspire "civil war." Which means they are looking for excuses to act out.
As always with these folks, there’s a lot of projection going on here. Because even if a President Obama follows only the most moderate of liberal agendas, the far right will look upon those policies as cause for "civil war." That was how they responded to Bill Clinton, after all — a white male Southerner with generally conservative leanings. One can only imagine how a liberal black man from Illinois would fare.
The extremist right went into remission, largely, with the election of George W. Bush; militias disbanded because their followers believed the threat of an oppressive, gun-grabbing, baby-killing "New World Order" had largely passed. They bided their time by forming Minutemen brigades. Now they can see that their "safe" era is coming to an end.
All this time, there really has been hankering for an excuse to start acting out violently, and they see any Democratic presidency as providing that excuse. But an Obama presidency in particular will do so.
All of which makes rather ironic the fears expressed by the fellow who propped up that phony "Hillary Clinton Supporters For John McCain" page:
What good is a great economy if you have to worry about getting blown up by a car bomb every time you go to the Mall? You want another Baghdad here in the USA, not me! I want my grandkids to be free and that includes being free from the fear of being killed by a terrorist. If Obama is elected, you better hope he adopts Hillary Health Care plan, because you are going to need it with his idea of "Security" for this country.
Well, there is indeed a potential threat looming after this election in which terrorists will make ordinary people feel unsafe about going to places like malls — just like they did in the 1990s.
But they won’t be Arabs coming from Baghdad. They’ll be little Timmy McVeighs from Buffalo.
Then again, to the folks on the right, that doesn’t seem to be a problem. To the rest of us, well, we had better be prepared. I think we’ll all find that the "law enforcement approach to terrorism" is a lot more effective than those same right-wingers have been telling us the past few years.
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Happy Friday!
You are correct about the gun grab fears, I have seen that over and over and over. “You better get more ammo and that gun you have been wanting before November, that Obama feller is going to make them illegal”.
The Wingers are whipping themselves into a frenzy.
Some of the crap I see makes me want to question the reality these people think they live in.
The 13th.
It causes me to experience “undertoad”…
Anyone that thinks that Obama is a weak man, is just plain dreaming. He’s the bravest politician I’ve ever seen in my lifetime.
Here is another thought…everyday you wake up and crazy sh*t happens in this world. Things shock me, but they don’t surprise me.
I also think, tho this will probably draw some more rebukes, that this recent campaign allowed a great deal of woman bashing as well as race baiting — without enough stand-up folks saying, “No, that’s just not acceptable.” When I saw TDS collage of nastiness re Hillary, I was actually surprised because I figured I’d been a woman so long that it didn’t even hit me til I saw a whole run of it. The recent ‘terrorist fist jab’ and ‘Obama baby mama’ crap just adds to the incivility that seems to give the wackos energy to act out. Hey, they are encouraged. They feel they can get away with it. Damn.
Even if the next generation of Christianist jihaddis manage to blow something up, hard right rethugs would still try to blame the attack on muslims, or perhaps on us…. and the press will buy into it.
About 95% of these nuts are cowards and would never do anything. The other 5% are a bit more iffy but probably more mouth than anything else.
Thankfully McVeigh was caught relatively quickly. I recall that there was a lot of instant belief that it had to be a brown person, probably a Muslim, who did that terrible thing. I remember thinking, “I wonder how y’all are going to feel if it turns out to be a white guy?” Once McVeigh was fingered, things got quiet, but I don’t think it changed the minds of the xenophobic/racists.
And then there was the anthrax killer, who was never caught. Once it became clear it was a domestic job, the story went away.
I thought the Clinton folks handled Oklahoma city poorly. Instead of going after the enemy, they let them get away. Some very suspicious things went on…like why’d the FBI seem to have a inkling beforehand? And “John Doe 2″ was said to be with Tim McVeigh just before the bombing. Clinton could have rallied the people against the far Right but he instead hardly did a thing.
Yeah, wow. I still marvel at that. So much for the wonderfulness of the FBI. But, hey, let’s read everyone’s email — and maybe snailmail, too. Yeah, that’ll work. Downright sickening.
Not to be rude (or maybe not TOO rude) but I often wonder what Clinton could have done, could have become, could have accomplished if he’d just been able to keep it in his nickers? He was so busy covering for his misdeeds that he was early-lamedicked.
At this point can you imagine anyone stupid enough to be planning an attack of some kind and writing about it in an e-mail or talking about it over the phone? If they would do that they would be too dumb to pull it off.
The Islamist rumor persisted for at least a week after McVeigh was fingered, and even now, if you read the rightyblogs, they still talk about how they believe (on no evidence whatsoever) that he was a dupe for int’l islamist ‘rrerists. He must’ve been. No white boy could be that evil, didn’t you know?
This is the aspect of the sexist issue which Obamacans do not grasp. When Keith Olbermann can fantasize about stuffing Hillary in a closet, ‘…so that she never comes out…’ we all suffer.
We all become targets. I am now a target because I am expressing something, criticism of Obama, that has now become proscribed speech. Were I you I’d keep my head down.
Until the American People have made up their minds about Senator Obama.
And I’d hope they come to the right decision.
Dave, don’t you know McVeigh was working for Iraq?
I thought it was Iran.
they’re the same thing. The giant Saddammite-Iranian-Liberal-Gay conspiracy strikes again.
Sadly, I can. McVeigh was smarter than most of those dudes. But, that’s okay, our leaders-du-jour will be off cuttin’ brush and too occupied to pay attention to any report made to them by FBI in the field.
Rush Limbaugh was on the air during the bombing and announced that he had a friend in the FBI who said it most likely a Islamic terrorist action. Then moments later had to retract his false info.
Clinton violated just common sense. He should’ve known how vicious his enemies were. Instead he lamely and slightly blamed it on ‘right wing radio’ and then backed-off. Now, if an environmentalist pulled that off, and a Republican winger was in the Presidency…you’d see major FBI actions against every environmentalist group in America. In fact, they tried to do that with the Unibomber (who in his proclamations denied he was an environmentalist), who was a very minor terrorist compared the still active KKK and others. But the FBI spent approx a quarter of their budget going after the Unibomber in order to make the enviro-”Left” look bad. They even ‘interviewed’ approx half a million suspected enviros in the western states. What did Clinton do in response to a REAL threat? Just a weak rejoinder about talk radio. He could have at least pushed through legislation to re-enact the Fairness Doctrine.
Hey Senator McCain – knock it off – they’re no sock-puppeting allowed here!
Keep it up, and I’ll get the real SouthernDragon after ya – he’ll be the guy with the tux and Chucks and earrings, just to give ya fair warning…
Breaking: 6.9 earthquake in northern Japan…. updates to follow!!
Indeed it did.
another disaster… levees reported breaking in Des Moines.. city’s being evacuated. 500 year flood plane breached. Global warming 10, shrub less-than-0.
I suspect that the ‘regular’ folks of Iowa will get a bit more help than NOLA got. Darn, I need some uplifting :)…
Ouch. I don’t think you want to be passing that along.
Wasn’t there some notion (somewhere in notionville) that McVeigh had help from radical Muslims? And wasn’t there another notion that he was executed fairly quickly cause they didn’t want him talking. I don’t know who “they” are.
I don’t think they will. Why would it be any different?
Another devastated American city.
The problem with this hypothesis is that the FBI and the other federal agencies are completely snowed under by the volume of data they’ve been collecting.
They’ve been concentrating on data collection. But their masters, who are utter amateurs, have completely overlooked the problem of data analysis.
What this means is that a plot to assassinate Obama, for instance, could very easily slip under the radar horizon of the FBI and the Secret Service because their analytical capability was grossly overloaded.
Try using a consumer-grade firewall to protect a full-up 100baseT connection and you’ll find out what I’m talking about very quickly. The same phenomenon is liable to shut down the firewall.
Saw some pictures of Cedar Rapids today and it’s scary – water every place up to the windows. Those poor people – I’m sure Chertoff has gone into code red to help them.
/s
“John Doe 2″ was a dead ringer for a leader in the German neo-nazi movement and several witnesses at the various motels and such that Timothy ‘n ‘john doe’ made their trip to Oklahoma city. They said he had a German accent. I note this as even in the NYTimes Magazine there was a photo of that leader who looked just like the sketch that was in the papers days after. A small muscled dark man (not hispanic nor arab like the Right wingers want you to believe)
Then mysteriously, the FBI then denied there was even a “John Doe” and dismissed the witness’s memories.
I thought it was stupid that they were in a rush to execute McViegh. Shoulda let him stew and talk. After all, there were at least three people who admitting knowing about the plot. (the guy in Arizona who told the FBI about McViegh’s partner.
Remember this was the outcome of the first Iraq war. What’ll happen when the disgruntle Second Iraq war vets come home to no jobs and no future?
Where are all those rightwingernut pastors when we need ’em? News just described the wipeout of Iowa cornfields — I guess ”God” just controlled the obesety problem. No more pig food; too bad for corn based auto fuel. We’re all going to be eating what and fueling our cars with what………that’s the what. And we deserved this why?
It is alfully quite in here and no one has be bothering to Digg this post for David who put in so much work to bring us this fine post!! So don’t just LURK Digg this post!! Don’t let your opportunity to help go willy nilly past you!!
Well, there certainly were a lot of questions about John Doe 2.
OTOH, Clinton was slapped down hard by the right for simply pointing out that there was a lot of reckless anti-government rhetoric fueling these kinds of acts. You’ll recall how loudly Limbaugh whined about it — and how it then became a standard media talking point that “Clinton blamed talk radio for Oklahoma City.” So he had his hands somewhat tied.
Oh, and he did try to get some serious anti-terrorism legislation passed, but it was shot down by Republicans who were fearful of the loss of civil liberties it might represent.
Six year later, many of these same Republicans voted en masse for the Patriot Act, which featured most of the proposals contained in the 1996 Clinton anti-terror legislation, and a good many more.
People are back 2 threads ago still going at each other about Russert.
BT is just shocked upstairs!
Thanks, Mods. You can take out my response to it, also. Gracias.
I would think by now almost every that could be said about Timmy’s passing has been said… but what do I know??
It’s just you and me now.
Sure seems like it:>) Good tune SD!
my problem with Clinton was that he tied his own hands. Remember the appointees he had to retract for minor things like hiring a nanny w/o proper papers. If that was a Bush, they’d ram them through until the bitter end. Clinton did have a slightly less popular mandate than GWBush…but only slightly.
And Janet Reno and Waco? Why didn’t the Left go after the gunnuts at Waco who fired at the govt. agents first and killed four. Ruby Ridge? Another nut job causes a death of a govt. agent and Clinton just sat there taking the heat. He should have gone on the offensive. He was the President, not Rush Limbaugh.
You’ll recall, of course, that Ruby Ridge happened when GHW Bush was president, in 1992. And that the Branch Davidian standoff was a situation created by Bush 41 and was then handed off to Clinton and Reno. And there’s no doubt that Reno was bamboozled and bullied into the disastrous rescue attempt by the FBI’s tactical-units people. (I’ve written a good deal more about that here and here.) But they did try to grapple with the problem, and the anti-terrorism legislation of 1996 was a decent start, though I balked at some of its provisions too. But they were all shot down by the militia-loving Republicans in Congress.
Finally, I should point out that the fiasco at Ruby Ridge was precipitated by a “we’re the FBI and we’re by God in charge here” mentality similar to what went down at Waco. It gave a lot of fuel to conspiracist wingnuts.
And then there was the Montana Freemen standoff, which I covered in person. It was the first situation like this in which Clinton and Reno’s people were in charge. It lasted 81 days, but everyone came out alive. The only person killed was a state trooper who drove off the side of a snow-covered road. The FBI clearly demonstrated it had learned how to deal with these situations in a more constructive fashion.
I was living in Oklahoma City in 1995 when the bombing occurred. I shall never forget what the shockwave from the explosion felt like, when it hit the veterinary clinic I was working in at the time. Then there was the shock that the attack was home-grown, in spite of the protestations of ex-tabloid ”journalist” Jayna Davis.
I’m not surprised they are getting ready to stage a comeback. I hope our law enforcement is ready–they used to be good at ferreting these people out.
probably the same “they” who wanted a few loose nukes taken from Minot to God knows where…Iran
If you believe we had people following the 9/11 terrists and we knew everything they were doing, then why not believe we knew about any other ferigners wandering around America. Once you get that, then how much does it take to see an elite unit (under direction from “them”) executing some destructive plan like Oklahoma City or Atlanta or even 9/11?
Once you know there are some crazies overseas who want to hurt us, however unable they are, then what does it take for “them” to enable them? It’s a fallow ground for conspiracy theories to grow.
Of course, once you’ve considered this, then you have to wonder what “them” want and why they might do all this. That might take you any number of directions since you don’t really know who “them” really is/are.
I actually have no problem with the sentiment “I hope Obama wins, because he is bound to fail.” There’s no better answer to THAT one than a successful Obama presidency.
However, I really am concerned that all these people are seriously mentally ill. I deal with them in discussions on political forums, and it really seems like they are delusional. Some of these wingnuts simply believe that Republican administrations are comprised of tough white males bound to protect the wingnuts, and Democratic administrations are full of weak people of all races and genders with an emasculating agenda for America.
These wingnuts are not sane. They’re not rational. They’re absolutely terrified, and they’ve been sold or have constructed this victimized worldview based on some mythology about what each party represents.
Not sure what can be done about it, but it sure is disturbing. They seem to be opting out of the social contract that allows for democracy, their philosophy being that any means are justified to resist the Democratic party and return the Republican party to power.
Are psychologists looking at this? What madness leads these people to live in such a paranoid dichotomy? And how can a democratic republic persist when so many of its people are violent, anti-social, and narcissistic?
I wish it was ‘fallow ground’. It’s actually fertile ground for conspiracy theories. Look at the ones just in this thread. [/nitpicking]
from what i know of timothy mcveigh and what he claims are his motives does not fit in all with the klan types or the people who hate democratic presidents on principle.
wasn’t he part of a different thread of violence in america?
i’m going by what gore vidal has said…. is there any reason to discount that?
Here in Denver, our local ABC affiliate ran a story yesterday about the “parade route” for protesters during the Democratic convention in august. Smack in the middle of the story comes a plea from the local blood bank, Bonfils Blood Center, for increased donations, noting that more blood is expected to be needed during the convention. So, we’ve got local news telling our citizens that Democrats are Dangerous…
I’d meant that the general militia/gun nut mentality led to all of the instances of violence from the right wingnuts: ruby ridge (even when before Clinton), waco and then OkCity. Remember McViegh expressed outrage over both ruby ridge and waco. And I mentioned to all here even if law enforcement made mistakes it gives no one a right to fire upon the law even if the law is wrong. For instance if a Swat team shows up at my door mistakenly, I still shouldn’t shoot first and expect to be acquitted as in the Ruby Ridge case…the guy even made a bundle off the yahoos in the jury…forgetting that the first person to die at Ruby Ridge was a law enforcement person.
After finally listening to the likes of Rush Limbaugh and fearing for my country that someone that hateful could be influencing millions of citizens, Oklahoma City happened and I was so distressed that my jaw locked up for a week. I even went to a doctor for it and he said it’d probably get back on it’s own. We were attacked by our own citizens which was much more of a blow to me than 9/11. 9/11 just made me angry, mostly at GWBush for his Taliban sympathies. His administration had sent about 4 billion dollars to the Taliban for drug eradication while they were subjugating woman and destroying Buddhist statues of great worth. When the Twin Towers were falling I knew the Taliban was responsible and mostly I was right. AlQaida was very much a Taliban sponsored organization.
Dave Chappelle shared this on the Electric Bike edition of Dr. Katz:
Vidal’s account was classic “parachute journalism” — jumped into a subject he knew nothing about, found an angle he liked and then pursued it with a vengeance. His conclusions are completely unreliable and certainly are about 180 degrees removed from mine.
McVeigh wasn’t involved with the Klan — he was involved with a neo-Nazi/Christian Identity/”Posse Comitatus”/hardcore white supremacist outfit (called Covenant, Sword, and Arm of the Lord that operated out of the Ozarks and had quite a history of racist violence attached to them.
Gary Kamiya pretty much nailed the problem with Vidal.
Have to agree with you on Vidal. No argument there. A talented man, but can’t stop speaking Fiction.
thanks for the links, i will check them out.
No, it was just a former patriotic military soldier who had a military chip in his hip. Wonder what the chip was for?