The high priests of bipartisanship are going limp at the rumors of Chuck Hagel or Dick Lugar for Obama’s VP, but I must confess these bold opponents of choice leave me a bit cold.
Much more interesting is the prospect of Kathleen Sebelius, who actually has an impressive record of "getting shit done":
More often than not, Sebelius has harnessed legislative consensus for her agenda. In a special session in 2005, she was handed a budgetary bombshell when the state’s Supreme Court ordered the government to provide $500 million for school funding (Kansas’ budget is roughly $12 billion). Discussions went on for days in the legislature, with talk of impeachment of the justices surfacing. Sebelius stood behind the court, and recruited a slim majority of lawmakers to her side. Funds were passed for the schools and three years later the program is regarded as a success.
"She brings people together and gets things done," said Raj Goyle, a first term state representative. "Governor Sebelius has a unique record of reaching across traditional party lines in Kansas to build consensus."
She’s also managed to hew to progressive values in a state where that isn’t always easy:
She vetoed a bill that would have required voters to show photo identification before voting, citing disenfranchisement concerns. She issued an executive order making it illegal to discriminate against state employees on the basis of sexual orientation. Three times in four years, she opposed legislation that would have restricted abortion access even though one of those bills passed the Kansas legislature by a two to one margin. Most recently, Sebelius offered a third veto to a bill that would have paved the way for the construction of two new coal-fired units in western Kansas, and she did it primarily on environmental grounds, a stance that a decade ago would have amounted to political suicide.
"Elected leaders are supposed to look at the big picture, at issues that may not affect citizens immediately but are extremely beneficial to the long-term condition of our society. Moving toward renewable energy provides opportunities for better-paying jobs, while helping to address concerns caused by global warming," she said of her decision.
Her position was held up by one vote in the statehouse.
Acceptance of a Lugar or a Hagel on the ticket is also acceptance of the right’s "national security" frame. And when that happens, McCain wins. If the debate truly is to shift to "how do we fix the stuff that’s wrong with this country," something that people in polls say again and again concerns them in this election, nominating someone like Sebelius makes a whole lot of sense.
Besides, George Bush hates her. That’s the kind of bona fides John McCain would kill for right about now.
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Dugg! Thanks for this exceptional post Jane.
I agree; I’m really hoping he picks Sebelius. One of Obama’s few statements about the Vice Presidency indicated that he doesn’t think he needs someone to shore up national security or foreign policy, and I hope he sticks to that, for exactly the reasons you cite. He’s been really good at changing the playing field rather than fighting back only on the ground where he’s attacked, and this would be another good opportunity.
WEBB please
IMO she’s not got what it takes to help Obama in the election. He DOES need someone with solid national security credentials, but I don’t think he has to reach across the isle to find it. And even if she brings her state to Obama (and it looks to me as though that’s no guarentee), that’s not a lot of electors.
Boxturtle (Not belittling the Gov, She’d make a great VP but no help with the election)
isnt she DLC?
Great post, Jane. I’m a big fan of what Sebelius has accomplished. However, her speech in response to the SOTU in January was entirely lifeless (even though the content rocked). I haven’t seen any of her other speeches. Did she just have an off night, or is she that dull delivering speeches? Obama’s running mate will need some real punch when speaking to help deliver the votes needed.
Back later, chores are calling…
The other thing that Sebelius has been doing has been converting rethugs into dems. I assume she has won over whatever “liberal” rethugs were left and found themselves homeless in “today’s republican party.” They got lots of press at the time.
How about Janet Napolitano? She’s from AZ!
Thanks Jane.
digg
I don’t think so. She’s pretty independent. I think she’d be a great choice. I think Webb would be a loose canon for Obama to have around.
why Rev?
OT – CSPAN3: markey giving his opening statement now:
related link in the news box: Atlas shows effects of climate change on Africa
she does give GREAT violin though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6Kq0qMMpgU
this is my fave of course
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..re=related
I saw her on squawk box the other morning. She was good. Reframed issues, didn’t get distracted, and answered progressively.
My question is can she throw a punch and engage in political jiu-jitsu (where you use the opponents strength and momentum against them)?
We are going to need to ATTACK! ATTTAAAACK! ATTTTAAAAAACK! this year.
T-
- have been saying this for weeks – and then when I read she is daughter of former Ohio gov., and that whole billion dollar deficit being erased without taxes – cemented it for me.
sadly yes – she is DLC but recommend you read Jane’s “get shit done” link above . there are also some issues about Webb and sexist remarks, let alone the civil war writings now bubbling to the surface
i shall
Interesting. Will have to get more up to speed on her in detail.
BTW, saw a full page ad in Atlantic Monthy the other day for a new book. Website here-
http://www.TruePat.org
Probably pick up the book today.
The fact that Obama likes her and her style is probably enough. I don’t doubt that she would be a masterful administrator. But can she deliver whatever Obama needs on the stump? I don’t know, I’m asking.
I think she can fortify the Ohio vote as well as make Kansas competitive. I’m high on Sebelius and I think she would make a great VP.
However, like you, I wonder if perhaps someone else might have more electorial benefit. For example, one of the Va. “troika” would probably be enough to turn that state.
Nevertheless I would be very satisfied with the Governor, especially if she learns to deliver a punch on the trail.
webb:
“Women Can’t Fight”
or how about this one:
Kerry deserves condemnation for his activities as the leader of Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW)
Food for thought, we had an election in ND yesterday, and two strong women incumbents on City Commissions in Fargo and West Fargo were voted out of office. Maybe sometimes I see foreshadowings too far out of the mainstream, but I had this thought of a Hillary Factor, a backlash against other women candidates. Is it there? I’m not sure. Anecdote at this point, not strong evidence.
Sebelius brings to the table some logical things, notably “Western governor” even more than specific achievements. That’s where I’m seeing the need going. Tweety and E.J. are apparently both going with Biden as “the” choice, but I don’t see that at all. Obama already covers the urban/Eastern base, and he needs to connect with western down-to-earth types to remake the map. I don’t see Sebelius as the strongest to do that.
I’m goin’ with Montana Governor Brian Schweitzer…recommendation…and prediction.
.
.
Prairie Today: “I Voted.”
hey the gal wears a flag pin verrrrrrrrrrry good
I am not sure she brings any electoral votes with her. As such, she wouldn’t be at the top of my list.
Sebelius would be an inspired choice. I still hope for Webb tho.
uh ohhhhhhhhhhh ,not cool
The high priests of bipartisanship are going limp at the rumors of Chuck Hagel or Dick Lugar
What would a GOPer give Obama there are no moderates in this election and we will not win the 30%ers unless the economy really tanks or we have another Katrina. A woman would help get the Hilary voters but can she debate?
I still remember Holy Joe debate Darth I have never seen any take so obvious a dive.
OT but important.
U.S. airstrike kills 13 Pakistani border guards.
-G
Choosing Webb would be a too obvious admission that Obama is weak on national defense. Besides, isn’t the coutry militarized enuf without having it become integral to the D party? Geeesh.
if she really is DLC, i can not support. can you give me more links to read?
agree. and a DLC pick would be a major step backwards. we can do better.
Ha. Just heard about fire at TX gov mansion. Can’t wait for religious nutcases to interpret it as god’s will.
Not that I don’t like Sebelius. I’d be excited about her on the ticket, I’d be excited about her in the Cabinet, too, though. There’s going to need to be a whole lot of strong leadership throughout the departments to clear out the riff-raff.
oh boy…
I dunno. I’m in Ohio, politically active, and I know almost nothing about her other than what I’ve learned in this thread and it’s links. She won’t hurt anything, especially amongst the Hillary voters, but I don’t think she’s going to pick up enough of the middle.
However, she’s sure proved she can take a punch as well as deliver one. A Dem Gov in Kan is a tough job to survive, never mind actually get stuff accomplished. Those couldn’t have been easy fights.
Boxturtle (Exception for election influence, I think she’d be a good choice)
If it’s Sebelius.. I have already emailed Obamas campaign requesting she agree to renounce, denounce and repeatedly pounce on the DLC in a very public manner.
Remember the response to the SoTU he did? The DNC gave him a script that he chucked and did his own. No complaints, it was great. BUT Obama runs a VERY scripted operation. I don’t think that Webb will play well in that environment.
like this?
Wednesday, June 11, 2008
FHA forecasting $4.6 billion loss
Chris in Paris · 6/11/2008 09:40:00 AM ET · Link
1 Comment · reddit · FARK · Digg It! ·
As if we needed more proof of gross incompetence and failure by the Bush administration, details are emerging about HUD and the FHA that show just how poorly they were managed. Remember, the McCain economic team helped set up the housing bubble and will continue with business as usual. The GOP told the country that they knew how to run an economy, if only those pesky Democrats would get out of the way and let business do business. They did and this is the end result of letting business do as they please.
The Federal Housing Administration expects to lose $4.6 billion because of unexpectedly high default rates on home loans, officials said Monday.
Brian D. Montgomery, the F.H.A. commissioner, attributed the unanticipated losses primarily to the agency’s seller-financed down payment mortgage program, which has suffered from high delinquency and foreclosure rates in recent years.
Acceptance of a Lugar or a Hagel on the ticket is also acceptance of the right’s “national security” frame. And when that happens, McCain wins
Uh just why would Obama set up a GOPer to be our next President if something should happen to him?
Morning egregious – very interested in your take on Webb for many reasons, not the least being I recall you actually know him. What say you about the sexism issues that have been raised?
Obama IS weak on national defense. He’s GOT to cover that. If not with a VP pick, then by picking Secty defense and Secty State no later than the convention.
Boxturtle (Know your weaknesses, your enemies do)
yea im looking for smooth and competent,as versus…..fear mongering and dramatic
Exactly…
It is God’s will if she is an arsonist.
Sebelius For VP sounds compelling. I can’t imagine an obstructionist Blue Dog in the slot.
zactly
Would choosing Sebelius be perceived as a slap in the face of the Hillary folks? Is for them the issue not any woman, but THE woman? Just asking.
yea Hill said…NO OTHER WOMAN deserves it,freakers on DEM side (you know who) would FREAK
that’s a scary link.
Morning, npb!
I would say that people evolve. Webb did say sexist things years ago, but he has apologized for them and explains he now realizes how hurtful those remarks must have been.
I’ve talked with both his wife and his ex-wife, no shrinking violets there. His ex-wife helped campaign for him. As a feminist from way back, I am attuned to whether people are fair on this issue. I am satisfied, but invite people to look into his view for themselves.
OT.
I hope the servers will be getting a huge injection of Wheeties for the June 20 hearing when Scotty will be testifying. I would think that traffic here will resemble that of the Libby trial. We may even need to go gabbly again so as not to distract from the solemn business at hand.
I’ve checked my calendar and plan to be seated comfortably in front of CSpan for the occasion.
Boyoboyoboy.
first off let me say like most of you, she would not be my first pick – I am merely looking at so called electability and ability to work with the Obama camp –
as to DLC – and I am not defending membership – just keeping it real. no one has gone anywhere in our party for 16 years without membership in the DLC
Schweitzer, Napolitano – it’s how it’s done
read her wiki entry – a lifelong catholic, self identified as pro life who has fought legistlation restricting Choice in Kansas
also think she can help in OH and MI
her record on the environment will not be disappointing either
wiki
I said “too obvious.” He’s got to handle it with SecDef, not VP.
Great post.
Regarding the whole having picking a VP based on ‘military connections/experience or percieved # votes’ is a non issue and has nothing to do with getting the right people in the right places.
Barak has shown that he picks the right people for the right reasons, so it is time to step out/think/act outside of the box.
We just have to make/support the changes needed. :)
‘Much more interesting is the prospect of Kathleen Sebelius, who actually has an impressive record of “getting shit done”:’
Yes it is. I know it will never happen.. But Kucinich or some other competent, experienced, liberal is what the nation needs as a VP.
Strength on Defense is the ability to NOT USE IT!
Most recently, Sebelius offered a third veto to a bill that would have paved the way for the construction of two new coal-fired units in western Kansas, and she did it primarily on environmental grounds, a stance that a decade ago would have amounted to political suicide.
Sounds like she can add more flesh to Obama’s green power message. Going green is the way to cut the importance of the war as foreign policy message Bush/McCain has.
Israel and Denmark are both going green with electric cars why can’t we, we have more cash available than both countries. By cash available I mean debt we can borrow.
Every dollar not spent on foreign oil is one less dollar for Ossama and one less dollar for Iran to buy Nuclear reactors with.
And since green power is free we can take the money that we would normally spend on oil and use that to pay down our debt.
Its called return on investment a concept Bush has never learned with all his business failure and one that McCain doesn’t seem to get either.
reminds me – when is Yoo supposed to testify ?
do you have a link to his apology? thanks!
also – did he ever apologize for what he said about kerry and the vvaw?
i’d like year 17 to be different.
did he ever apologize for what he said about kerry and the vvaw?
What did he say that could be a problem
Obama just won the primary season.. and has never been a member. (I’m jus sayin’)
707!
Surely you jest.
ruth roh! Bilderberg Group list of attendees (pdf warning)
That is completely incorrect! Membership in the DLC is not a prerequisite to success in the Democratic Party. I for one refuse to support a DLC Candidate-think of the unctuous Harold Ford. You can have the entire outfit! They are nothing more than the Republican wing of the Democratic Party. The “Third Way” is not the way for me.
They are not progressive and I think Senator Obama is selling out his campaign by selecting such an individual. But that’s politics, right? Talk(and perceptions) are cheap. We all knew that Mr. Obama was definitely not the most liberal Senator and was willing to consider an actual Republican, let alone an ex Republican for veep, so why not the next best thing, a DLCer?
from my 22 link to raven, webb wrote the following in 2004:
source link
s’okay – and it’s why Chairman Ford has changed his language from “Senator Obama” to “Barak” within the last week – the Obama victory has made them increasingly irrelevant and old Harold would like to catch that train as it moves out of the station :D
OT, perhaps worthy of an FDL news link? From the NYT.
Pakistan Says U.S. Airstrike Killed 11 of Its Soldiers
you read my mind…
gak! can’t open link – is Sebelius and/or Obama on the list ?
Ugh, Sebelius is so BORING. Maybe there’s a role for her somewhere else in his administration, or maybe she can run for Prez some day (yawn). But please, not as Obama’s Veep. Please. Her pallid response to the SOTU put me to sleep. Contrast it with Webb’s response, which got me completely fired up.
Sebelius. wolfowitz and zelikow are on there too.
Lugar, Hagel…You forgot Nunn!
Oh, and today’s Politico said McCain might put Shooter in his administration. Whoa!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politi…..tico/11000
thanks – will google now :D
New world. Mordor. /s
Sen Webb’s past comments will undercut the antiwar movement unless he comes out against this war big and makes peace with Kerry.
Maybe he could attack the swift boaters who are going to go after Obama and attack McCain for letting the swift boaters make such attacks.
That and Webb could mention how unfair it was when Bush called McCain’s kid a bastard with Karl Rove calls to voters.
McCain rather than rising above the muck has now decided to embrace it, McCain has given up, McCain has decided that the ends do justify the means, McCain has decided that Might is Right.
Dick Cheney…..HELL YA!
-Johnny the Maverick
lol! seriously
Sparkles This is not the way to start my day! :)
That is a valid problem but is she any better in a debate? Because aside from a few speeches the only time we will look at her talking is at a debate.
Oh, I love this. McCain would consider the arguably most hated man in the United States for an administration post. Need to get the word out on this.
Well….as long as we’re talkin’ Magic Man and who he might appoint to what….
How about Kmeic fer SCOTUS?
How does that sit with the FireDoggies? Like I said the other day when Obama starts being Obama….
It’s gonna get ugly.
I really like Sibelius. Someone low key like Obama. Her constituents are very happy with her governorship.
I think she’d be great. (She and Nancy Pelosi attended the same DC women’s college – about 9 years apart)
I don’t think picking Webb would signal Obama thinks national security is his weakness. Webb did not support invading Iraq, after all. And Webb could bring the redneck (his word)/Confederate/Appalachian/southern white etc. vote. Plus I love watching him get in fights with people pimping the Bush administration.
John McCain thanks you!
Good morning, Cbl. Miss you today. Play nice with the other kids.
No this is great we can use this! 4 more years of Darth as the Puppet Master!
Maybe Darth would bring Rummy back for Iran War 1.
I have no idea if she can debate or not. And of course we don’t know who McCain will pick. Wouldn’t the Veep debates rock if it were Webb/Condi? Hot damn.
imo, association with speaker pelosi is no longer a point in her favor.
better democrats please. is there really no one who is not dlc, not pro-war and pro-choice, etc we can think of?
I think he should go further and a big “hell, yeah” to putting both Bush and Cheney in his cabnet.
I wasn’t going to hawk Webb, because I don’t think he’d be a popular choice among Democrats, but this statement is ridiculous.
He’s the only one who did something in the Senate to thwart Bush/Cheney on Iran, not to mention his legislation for veterans.
The very point of picking Webb would be for Obama to reinforce his position on the war (see his SOU response?), not to “shore up his nationality security credibility” or whatever cliche you prefer. Obama has no insecurities over such “credibility”, as he was right all along and is letting the public know it.
Return on Investment a terrific talking point…and teaching moment. As opposed to the Republican Fatcat greed-grab way of economics. Piracy in the guise of short term profiteering…we are all being Enronized this summer.
And the ones who suffer most are ordinary American families, the workers that keep the engine going.
We’ve tried it the Republican Fatcat way and look at the mess we’re in.
Mattews is generally wrong. He will rally for Biden, then if he were the nominee he would say it was a bad choice because Biden is less likely to connect with rural/blue collar voters than Obama. I have concluded Mattews thinks only about the next string of Hardball Shows and what controversy they can dish up. I like Biden, but think he would be better in a cabinet position of remaining in the Senate. We are going to need our heavy hitters in the Senate to remain there.
9 years apart does not make them classmates. Just interesting that a small women’s college would produce two female politicians.
Kathleen Sebelius has the class to match Obama’s and balance the ticket.
Russ Feingold.
This betrays total ignorance of Webb? Heard of legislation to cut off funds for a war against Iran? Listened to his response to the SOU, which was about ending the war? His legislation for veterans?
He’s against the war. That’s why he ran!!! That’s why he carried his son’s boots around.
My first choice for VP is HRC.
My second choice would be another woman.
The biggest downside to Sebelius would be that she appears to be a great governor.
I just think putting a man on the ticket, kicks sand in the face of all the HRC supporters who are looking for a reason to “sit this one out.”
IMO, Webb’s statements about women in combat are a lot more serious (seriously bad) than his comments about Rebel soldiers.
Most “Rebel” soldiers didn’t fight to preserve slavery and most “Union” soldiers did not fight to abolish it. Most Rebel soldiers did not own slaves and derived no direct benefit from them. That was reserved to the slave’s owners. A lot of the abolitionists in the Union army were killed early in the war. Lincoln understood the realities, which is why he had to make it about the “Union.” Lincoln didn’t like slavery, but his record afaik, was pretty much that of a white supremacist. He wouldn’t have favored integration (although there is some evidence he softened on that late in his life).
Why soldiers on either side fought, is a complex historical issue. Pope Pius IX loved all the money that Catholic slave owners sent him, which is why the Vatican was officially neutral. (Privately, Pius was pulling for the Rebels.) That’s why you’ll see Roman Catholics from Ireland fighting for both the Union and the Confederacy. Lee’s “old War Horse,” was, James Longstreet, was an abolitionist. He fought for the Confederacy, because he believed more strongly in states rights. US Grant’s father-in-law owned slaves in Missouri.
Webb’s use of the term “Nazi-ification of the Confederacy” may be more on point than he knows.In Deadly Combat is an extraordinary book by a Wehrmacht soldier making claims similar to Webb’s. The German army (Wehrmacht) never said “Heil Hitler,” and they had no idea about the concentration camps or the Final Solution. But, it was they who did the bulk of the fighting and dying.
I agree the Stars and Bars (Confederate Flag) has no place in or on taxpayer supported institutions. I also think people on both sides misuse the Stars and Bars. Some white supremacists try to use it to signal white supremacy.
mornin’ hotness. miss you too.
play nice ? where’s the fun in that ?!?!?
ps, have a purring red kitty on my lap as I type
Who suggested Lugar? That has to be the f*cking stupidest idea I ever heard. If the point of the Democratic Party is to elect Republicans, then I’m gone. It would probably be the one thing that would keep me from voting for Obama. What Evan Byah wasn’t sufficiently vapid?
As for Sebelius, no national expeeince, no Washington experience, no international experience.
We need Russ in the Senate very badly. The possible VP group shown on Huff Post I thought was mostly hilarious – Daschle? Kerry? NELSON??? Ha.
We need to push what the Dow is when adjusted for inflation now and what it was day one of Bush’s term. That and the value of the American Dollar and the price of gas now and the first day of Bush’s first term.
I’m guessing most people who still watch Fox don’t know.
((angie)) – good call. i also like bernie sanders, but even i will concede a bit to the issue of electability.
i’m really worried about obama’s economic policies, and am looking for some sign he doesn’t plan on going back to the murderous policies of the “washington consensus” of the ’90s.
1,670 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
“Sebelius for VP?”
I must admit that my initial response to that question was “you can’t be serious”. However, after reading the post and puttin’ her in the context of geographic and demographic politics it does make POLITICAL election sense. Unfortunately, the VP is gunna hafta be able to solidify Obama’s ability to govern and, in fact will need to able to share the load of taking a portfolio of legislative and policy matters and runnin’ ‘em through the congress and processin’ ‘em in the media, IN ADDITION to bringin’ a constituency to the election and providing foreign policy and administrative experience and bein’ Obama’s insurance policy. With this argument in mind, I am brought back again to one name: Al Gore.
If we lived in a less dangerous and more politically stable America, Kathleen Sebelius would be the perfect choice. However, I believe that she would better serve Kansas and the country as a whole, as Governor for two more years and then servin’ in a new progressive Senate in 2010. Al Gore is the only living person who would not only insure Obama’s election but would be able to share the load and take several issues like alternative energy and climate change and navigate them through the Congress. In addition, Gore knows where the bodies are buried and which of the old Clintonista cadre can be trusted. God knows that one of Obama’s principle tasks in the first 100 days will be the cleansing of the administrative and national security bureaucracy and the speedy establishment of an effective governing structure in addition to rammin’ a massive amount of legislation thru congress before the oligarchy gets its feet back under it.
Don’t tell me that he can’t be persuaded ta take on the job at least for four years…after all, if Obama could put together a package to buy off Mrs. Bill then he certainly ken come up a package ta secure the best fuckin’ VP in the country’s history.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, NOBODY REMEMBERS WHO CAME IN SECOND!!
Speaking for myself only – no, it would not be a slap in the face. It would just be a very boring, uninspired choice, in contrast to the strong, inspirational, brilliant debating, ballsy Clinton. Of course I want to see women rise to our highest offices, but I’d much prefer they be inspirational, even charismatic women.
ya mean like Clinton, Carter, or Reagan ??? *g*
I think his attack dog qualities are best used in the Senate, not in VP.
I’ve read a few articles about him, which I can of course not find now, but I really don’t think he’s the right person for VP. He’s pretty conservative and was recently a republican. He has a reputation for holding serious grudges. He has said a lot of things in the past (such as comments about women) that would be an embarrassment in a presidential campaign.
I have to agree. Can he campaign? Can he raise money? Can he get other Democrats elected? HRC has rock-star status. She draws, crowds, media, and donations. She could really help get a lot of Democrats elected in districts where Obama is weak.
Agree.
dear gaia, been meaning to say for a week that Obama needs to cut Daschle loose, the man couldn’t even deliver South Dakota fer goodness sakes
Feingold has name recognition; McCain/Feingold, progressive cred, jewish cred and who would you trust in the 4th branch?
Yeah, look how well they turned out.
It is going to be hard to find a vp candidate that will satisfy the saunchest of hillary’s supporters.
They won’t be happy about a man. They won’t be happy about a woman who isn’t Hillary.
How is what he said about Kerry an impediment to ending the war when this is what he said in his response to the SOU:
or this:
How come no one in the media is recommending Ted Kennedy, Maxine Waters or Barney Frank for McCain’s VP?
That would be mavericky of him ya know.
-G
As an older white women, I could care less whether a woman is on the ticket. I want the best person that can help Obama win the election. That is my first priority. There will be a woman Pres. and and woman VP when a great woman candidate that runs a great campaign comes along, and it won’t be an issue that she a woman. I am distressed that there is all this animous and emotion because “Hillary, the woman” did not get the nod. She had baggage and made mistakes in her campaign. A man with her baggage and her campaign would have come up short too. She made progress for the next woman candidate. Everyone needs to get over it and concentrate on picking the best VP to help the ticket win in Nov.
I love Feingold but I am scared to take any of really good senators away from trying to have a huge majority.
Some people are never happy.
Thanks pups for pointing out what makes Webb a little problematic for veep. I still think he’s a rock star senator, though.
I agree that Kathleen Sebelius was sooo boring after SOTU. But before that I was impressed with what little I knew about her at that time.
Do we still want bland in a VP this election year? Sometimes I want super effective people to stay being effective where they are…She’d be a good pick, but I think we’ll need the sexist vote to overcome the racist vote. After the ABC hit piece on Obama’s “bottom 10 VP” picks, which reeks #########, we might need some help in that dept.
I know this is a totally offensive way to strategize. But I’m putting it out there anyway. forgive, please.
Lugar or Hagel is laughable. To think they are being considered is merely a pipe dream by the village idiots, beltway cocktail weenie gobbling punditzs.
Great point. It kills me that the meme is Democrats need a Republican but no one would ever dream of Republicans needing a Democrat. Joe Lieberman doesn’t count because whatever he is he is no Democrat.
Webb has done a lot now. But McCain will be reading those older comments that discredit the antiwar movement to the press. Webb has to address his past comments.
Although doesn’t McCain have a son in Iraq? Maybe Webb is the best choice then because McCain will play the I’m honoring my son in Iraq’s sacrifice and every solder over there’s sacrifice.
Obama might need Webb to handle that question because McCain will laugh at any non vet telling him about the war, the troops etc.
Fo VP we have to think electoral votes – lordy, I hate that system.
The crap about Hagel and Lugar is just that. The media gets wood at the sight of them, but nobody else does.
Now, Sebelius would be nice. The one obstacle is the tale being pushed by Newsweek’s Howard Fineman that HRC’s people told Obama that no woman but HRC could share his ticket.
Beautifully stated.
How about Obama’s Cooper Union speech on the financial crisis and regulation of Wall Street?
A snippet (my italics):
But can we get Al?
OTOH Lugar would help Obama with all the states that lie between Illinois and Indiana.
Webb was a Democrat before he was a Republican. He left the Democratic Party when Carter pardoned the Vietnam draft dodgers.
That’s called blackmail last time I checked. Hillary lost – she does not get to dictate anything.
Yeah, or how bout Cynthia McKinney.
I agree but also worry about the newly found powers of the VP.
And this recommends him how?
I’m in the media market where Webb ran his campaign. There were lots of ads about his past sexist comments. A lot of good it did Allen.
Nevertheless, I suspect Webb is not palatable to many or most Democrats, but this blindness to his principle virtue – a fierce commitment to ending the war — just drives me nuts.
We can ignore that even if it is true after all whats Hilary going to do endorse McCain? That would hurt McCain more than it would help him.
One pundit recently opined that Obama would have to reach outside the senate for veep. that was at first disappointing to hear, but it makes sense because we need the strong senators to stay in the Senate to work with him there.
Which governors make sense outside of Sebelius? or others?
Or what about Jimmy Carter to balance the youth ticket? hah! j/k and no offense to Mr. Carter.
Xactly.
LOL. In all candor, he’d probably help up here too (WI). Tip over some of the nervious nellies who might be buying the giant ad buy that McSame has made here. I’m sick of seeing the ads already.
please tell me that fineman is full of shit and that this never happened.
Drudge is reporting that Abu Dhabi is set to buy the Chrysler Building.
How come Chimpy is in Europe during his great fire sale?
-G
Also, let’s take on Pakistan while we are at it! Just don’t use any war mongery rhetoric.
I didn’t say it “recommends” him. I was responding to Fern noting that he was a Republican before he was a Democrat. But it does say that he cares about issues, not parties.
Something tells me Fineman is full of steaming shit here.
I think he’s got to choose someone with a strong defense, national security background. That will help blunt the rethug/faux news fear fear fear meme. That’s his challenge, from my little perch on a rain-soaked patch up here in nowhere land.
I think he was just correcting a misperception of Webb’s biography.
That aside, I don’t see how Webb doesn’t broaden the appeal of an anti-war campaign. He might have other flaws or limitations, but these this isn’t one of them.
I hope Bush’s newly discovered wanderlust takes him into the hands of the Hague.
He’s really taking a lot of trips this year, innt he?
Wesley Clark? Richardson? Just for grins – how about Joe Wilson?
Feingold and Waxman belong to A*PAC and both have taken contributions from them – thank gaia, DLC membership is all we have to worry about.
She already has endorsed McCain, sort of. But bygones, and all that…
Is this thing in Newsweek true? I’m pretty skeptical. It’s too Dowdesque a narrative.
The biggest asset Sebelius would bring is precisely this kind of experience in governing. Even her opponents in KS will grudgingly admit that she has been able to accomplish things as an executive that no one thought possible — standing up to the coal power plant folks is just the most recent example.
So what are we looking at? A smart, solid, reliable white male in his fifties, progressivish in his views, not a Senator, maybe from the South?
Though I must say I like the idea Sebelius or someone like her as VP.
1,670 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen ThingsCome Undone:
“But can we get Al?”
If there isn’t somethin’in the closet that the oligarchy could use ta bring ‘im down, of course Al could be persuaded. Gore is a brilliant man and has an amazin’ grasp of political reality…in addition, he is honestly committed to the issues of alternative energy and climate change and knows that unless there is a focused, monomaniacal effort from the White House in the first six months of the new congress it won’t happen. In addition he knows better’n anyone, that one person by himself in the White House can not get everything moving that needs to be moved thru the political moment.
As I said before, if Obama could put together a package to buy off “she who should be forever nameless” then he can come up with a political package that’s in his own interest to get Gore for at least four years. And, frankly, I would be surprised if Barak and Al haven’t spoken about it already.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, WE DON’T JEST NEED MORE WE NEED BETTER!!!
What’s wrong with that? I like to see Feingold take their money, then stiff them. And I could care less what foreign policy Waxman subscribes to, given what he does.
Respectfully disagree.
This is exactly the rationale behind Bush’s choice of Cheney.
It is a bad solution to a faulty argument.
You elect a President who has the judgement to choose advisors, and listen to them.
The VP’s jobs are
1. Get elected
2. Inquire daily as to the President’s health
3. Attend minor weddings and funerals
n response to ThingsComeUndone @ 61 (show text)
from my 22 link to raven, webb wrote the following in 2004:
To be sure, Kerry deserves condemnation for his activities as the leader of Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW). In the early 1970s, this small organization — never more than 7,000 veterans out of a potential pool of 9 million — became the darling of the anti-war movement and the liberal media. Its activities went far beyond simply criticizing the politics of the war to repeatedly and dishonestly misrepresenting the service of Vietnam veterans and the positive feelings most felt after serving.
source link
Its activities went far beyond simply criticizing the politics of the war to repeatedly and dishonestly misrepresenting the service of Vietnam veterans and the positive feelings most felt after serving.
John McCain will use that quote to smear us and accuse of of being a small group when were 70%! He will accuse us of being part of the Liberal Media, when we think the Liberal media is a joke. Plus he will accuse us of spreading lies.
These comments hurt us directly. Disavow them keep working hard to end the war in Iraq do something but this can hurt US!
maybe, probably not, and 707 707 707…
Don’t worry or are we listening to Hilary now?
I get your point, I guess I just feel like he’s got to get elected first. Might as well eliminate some of the dirt up front.
Did we determine that Obama is actually black enough? Cuz maybe he should pick a Harold Ford, an Oprah, a Jesse Jackson Jr., a Morgan Freeman.
Ye of little faith. Democrats don’t need to “blunt” any feeble Republican fear-mongering when they can simply attack McCain and the rest of them for the Iraq war. Obama’s not Clinton or Kerry.
That is not a bad idea…
My first thought is that Gore would not want the VP slot again, but if it was an opportunity to really make a difference with alternative energy…
That would be one hell of a legacy for Mr. Gore.
not if she really sent that message.
hey Reverend! how was the Rockies ?
that business of erasing a $1B debt without raising taxes will really help beat back the “tax and spend!” effluent coming our way :D
Eek!
Get a grip on yourself, man.
I think the flaw in the argument is that a Jim Webb VP would draw from McCain’s Daddy appeal.
Obama has won thus far by playing to his own strengths and not his opponents perceived strengths.
He will continue winning with this approach.
He definately needs a strong National Security Advisor, and SecDef.
He will find those people.
As a progressive, I am dubious about this running to a non-existent middle. Obama is no progressive and now I am being asked to consider someone to the right of him as a running mate. Sebelius? Webb? Ugh.
There’s a Bill Bradley rumor going around now, too.
Sebelius seems like an attractive choice to me. She has the bona fides to be President and would add to Obama’s message. The dull public speaking may be a problem, but then again, that can be remedied. Besides which, a good rule of thumb is that the VP candidate should never overshadow the Presidential candidate.
I think the cost of the war and where’s all that cash that disappeared in Iraq will sufficiently take care of the argument that Dems spend all the money they can get their hands on. Americans need to be made to understand that they are paying for this war.
I agree Al would be great but is Obama listening?
Still Al with his Google and Apple cash would bring Tons of Silicon Valley Tech cash to the table, plus the Green vote, and I am sure that a lot of Boomers might like to hear more about Al’s lock box for Social Security. I’m also sure Al could get votes in Detroit by saying hey if you would have only listened to me 8 years ago about building fuel efficient cars.
But whats even better the Liberal Media would be so pissed off!
How about SAMUEL L. MOTHERFUCKING JACKSON?
Plus an Academy award and a Nobel Prize yep he is very gifted and the MSM will be so jealous!
probably foolish of me to be counting on the Obama campaign to point out to Americans that it is their grandkids and great grandkids who will be paying for this debacle – conservatively $750 Million A Day – on their Soverign Fund Express Card !
Well, spill! What’s the rumor??
The mountains were wonderful!
I got a chuckle every evening, as we turned on the late local news to get the weather for the next day, with the local political commercials. The conservation folks in Colorado are *really* going after Bob Schaffer, the GOP candidate for Wayne Allard’s senate seat. (A big oily fingerprint figures prominently in the ad . . .). Schaffer’s response ad was laughable. Mark Udall, the Dem running against him, had some great ads of his own, all of which pushed his environmental concerns.
I’m looking forward to this fall, with so many folks so fired up!
I didn’t know much about her and am delighted to learn what I’ve learned here. As to the politics: assuming she is as competent as Jane says she is — and I am prepared to accept that she is — then her great strength is to put Kansas in play, cement Obama’s lead in MO, nensure IA, put Nebraska in play, and bring in the soccer moms in OH. That’s a pretty good bundle. Here’s the downside. I thought Richardson, for all his stiffness would be the best candidate because he brings in the TX hispanic vote, putting TX in play and forcing McCain to spend a huge amount defending the state. Plus he’s a proven competent. He also came out for Obama after the big speech, which was a big plus which cost him big time with the Clinton clique.
Maybe he’s being held for the Supremes.
i know there has been a lot of talk about appealing to right wing of clinton supporters or chasing the mythical center of american politics further right…. if we’re going to do either of those, how about we think about the nader voters too?
Read some of her bio on Wiki:
my bold. I like.
McCain is strong on national security because he has been wrong about it so often. So I am unsure what it means or why Obama needs someone who looks strong on national securiy just like John McCain.
The truth is a ham sandwich could beat McCain with no other slogan than: Want more of the same? Vote John McCain.
This is not sounding very Fourth Branch to me. /s :]
Not gonna happen. He has had enough of politics in Washington and seems to be quite content just where he is.
Hilary proved that there is no middle she ignored the Dem base US and went for moderates that are not there because the voters this time are paying attention.
That and with a war and a bad economy its real hard not to pick sides.
That money is gone.
you mean ‘Bob You Call This A Sweatshop ?!? Schaffer’ – lol what a clueless git!
thanks, that is the kind of thing that could win me over.
What makes the “middle” non-existent? You pretending it’s not there?
We can entertain our leftist fantasies till the cows come home, but they won’t serve Obama well if he’s actually trying to win.
Weeding DLCers out of the DemocratIC Party is one of our most urgent tasks IMO. DLCers were instrumental in in creating the “culture of enabling” that allowed things to get so bad in America right now. All the while, demonizing and shouting down actual Liberals and Democrats.
Any DLCer, like Sebelius, should not be considered. My first thought was John Edwards since recent polls with him as VP show complete domination in Nov, but his DLC past and voting record are troubling.
Thus, Howard Dean is the ultimate choice for VP. Obama’s going to win with just about anybody as VP, so we might as well put the best option in there. Dr. Dean would also be a good insurance policy for Obama.
Oh, and any Al Gore fans out there might want to do some head banging:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JSBhI_0at0
GritTV inaugural interview Tom Morello might have a few words to “testify” about Gore.
The fact that she has “executive experience” as a governor is a plus.
I’m concerned that the average person out there will be worried about national security, so someone with military experience may be important to counter McBush.
He’s gonna suit up for the Lakers in the next game.
the mythical center of american politics further right
The MSM I take it are the ones spreading this myth? I gave up TV for the summer.
Just shows Al had the right idea lock the cash up or some later fool will spend it.
Oh you don’t want to get me started on the Lakers. grrr.
I’m good with Dean!
It’s a mistake to judge historical figures by standards other than those of their times.
Sure, if you judge Lincoln by the standards of 2008 he looks a lot like a white supremacist. But Lincoln died in 1865, and by the standards of 1865 he was not a white supremacist.
The Civil War was only about slavery indirectly. The Confederate States (wrongly, in my opinion) thought that Lincoln would act directly to eliminate slavery. They attempted to secede rather than accept the limitation of slavery to those states where it was currently legal. They (rightly, in my opinion) believed that this would bring the eventual end of slavery in the US. Lincoln’s personal view was apparently that the former slaves ought to be shipped back to Africa.
Lincoln himself said that if he could win the war without freeing a single slave he would do so, or if he could win the war by freeing all the slaves he would do that. The war was fought to determine whether states had the right to secede from the union. The answer to that question is, “No.”
BC
No, strong on national security but different from John McCain. In what way are Webb’s national security bona fides just like McCain’s? McCain has been wrong about nearly everything. Webb has been right about nearly everything.
btw – as the newly crowned titular head of the Party, it will be interesting to see who BO picks to give Keynote Speech in Denver – for a long time I thought it was gonna be LA Mayor Villaraigosa (sp?) but his recent domestic troubles may pre empt that -
Hmmm. Wouldn’t selecting a woman who is not Hillary get a lot of dander up? It would be a bit insulting to her IMHO. I don’t like the idea.
Wearing his short shorts, presumably?
CNN launches the compare and contrast on future first lady. Yep, it’s proud vs. the
dairybeer princess.Glossed right on over that nasty ol’ sure I stole prescription drugs from the charity I worked for, and just like Rush Limpballs, I got away with my sheiss. You got a problem with that? After all, she said she wasn’t proud.
Big Bill isn’t a lawyer, doesn’t play one on TV and doesn’t make like one in the Roundhouse in Santa Fe.
If he’s being held for something (other than VP) by Obama it’s Sect’y of State or Nat’l Security Advisor.
BC
wash, rinse, repeat
Put Natl. Security in the Cabinet. Put competence in the WH.
It depends on the hypothetical woman chosen, and they way it is presented. It could be seen as a slap at HRC, or it could be seen as “listening to the 18 million” who supported her, many of whom are women who may have done so in order to have a woman’s voice echoing strongly in the White House.
I can’t tell if you’re missing the point on what the MSM are demanding when they say Obama needs “national security credibility”. What they mean by that is that Obama needs to pick someone who supported the war.
You’re definitely missing the point on Webb (who won’t be picked, anyway): “centrism” is not his defining characteristic. He’s an active and voluble opponent of the war who’s in the Senate precisely because he opposes it.
And as for progressivism, he should get a point or two for at least speaking the language of economic progressivism in his SOTU rebuttal.
I’m curious who your plausible progressive choices would be.
If you’re lucky. ;)
Howard Dean…hmmmm…that would be good.
True, but the average Joe doesn’t see past the ticket…just sayin’.
If Hillary does not want to be VP she should come right out and say so and her supporters will calm down. If she does want it, well….
Calling on Hugh, Selise, and all you most righteous firepups. I would greatly appreciate an opinion on the swill one of McCain’s Cindybots was serving up on Newshour last night. The transcript doesn’t do her haughty demeanor justice but here it is. Thanks.
warning: you won’t like it, but I’d like to know how to effectively refute it. It also appears to me like they had a very media savvy and aggressive spokesperson up against a policy wonk.
McCain/Obama surrogates on teh economy.
Wow, just wow. Getting out of Iraq, universal healthcare, an end to torture, a return to habeas corpus, a more equitable tax structure, government that works, these won’t serve Obama well if he’s actually trying to win? What’s the point of being a progressive then? And if I have to give all this up so that Obama can win, I don’t want him.
Howard Dean is doing great right where he is. Let’s leave him there, please.
Sebelius, or any other governor, has the virtue of being clean on the war.
The average Joe right now is obsessing on the cost of filling his gas tank. The average Jane is freaking out at the grocery store. I don’t think Natl. Security is going to play the same way it did in 04. YMMV.
agreed but lets wait until after august to tank him.
Great point.
Hi there Hugh. You know, all those issues you listed appear to be very I Love America to me. No assigning it to the political right/left spectrum need apply imho.
Not trying to argue, really trying to cheer all us patriots on.
FISA Post!
I agree. The Repubs over-played their hand on scaring people and nobody seems to believe it any more.
Obama/Bradley would by far be the best basketball playing ticket EVAH!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..re=related
for example, from pew: Trends in Political Values and Core Attitudes: 1987-2007 (pdf)
it’s not a leftist fantasy that the public is not nearly as far right as DeeCee.
Gas, Groceries, and George !
Now wait a minute – you said Obama was “no progressive.” But Obama wants all those things you just listed as being progressive – (unless you mean his health care plan wouldn’t insure everybody, which, I wish it would, like Clinton’s). And I don’t know where Webb stands on every single issue, but he’s sure as hell anti-war, and one of his biggest issues is the increasing gap between rich and poor. What’s more progressive than that?
I’m warming up to Sebellius.
YES! Indeed.
Please see me at 209 for the McCain fog machine on the economy.
thanks.
And if anything the price of gas and food are only going higher gas has been going up almost daily in Seattle.
I wonder how the average voter will feel by November if gas and food prices stay this high? Heck we just might get the 30%er vote.
Joe fills the gas tank, Jane goes grocery shopping….I feel like I’m in 1957.
Yep. The next election is going to be about those 3 G’s.
Yes, and if George attacks Iran, oil will go through the frikkin’ roof.
That was my initial thought also, but started thinking that since things are going so well with the 50 State Strategy and Obama’s campaign, that Dean’s approach is popular now, and a like-minded person would likely be voted in to replace Dean as DNC Chair.
So, Obama/Dean ‘08! Doesn’t that feel good? Go ahead…say it out loud. There, that’s niiiice….
well, of course, Cheney has to be in a Mcsame administration. you don’t think darth will allow mcsame to run w/o him? I’d be surprised if he’s not the veep, secdef or secstate next.
Maybe the transcript will be easier to get through. I tried to watch it last night but kept hitting the mute button everytime the McCain supporter opened her mouth and started spouting strings of non-sensical talking points.
And what’s the major factor driving the price of oil right now? Instability in the Middle East, especially with the war in Iraq, the saber-rattling over Iran, the lack of substantive engagement between Israel and the Palestinians, fear of major supply disruptions . . .
The cost of gas and groceries may be the presenting issues, but they both go back to the underlying mess Bush has made of Iraq with his costly, ill-conceived, unnecessary, and mismanaged war.
And consider this…oil giant predicting $250 per gallon in the near future:
http://www.independent.co.uk/n…..44217.html
OK reverse them. But it’s still the same 3 G’s. Gas Groceries and George.
AND because of the food shortages (barley and malt so I’ve heard), the cost of Joe’s sixpack is going to go up too!
1,670 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen BargainCountertenor:
“The Civil War was only about slavery indirectly…”
This old historical analysis has long outlived its usefulness…if the argument is that the Civil War was simply about preservin’ the Union, then of course, the cause of the rebellion that threatened that union is paramount. Of course the Civil War was about slavery both immediately and in the greater historically enevitability from the great compromise with the devil that allowed for the ratification of the Cobstitution. Allof the Founders, Northern and Southern, all knew that slavery was the cancerous seed that would eventually need to be irradicated when it germinated and threatened the entire crop of liberty.
No dear, slavery was THE cause of our unfinished Civil War.
KEEP THE FAITH AND KEEP READING, YOU’LL SEE IT IF YA READ ENOUGH!!
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), Arizona: No matter which of us wins in November, there will be change in Washington. The question is: What kind of change? Will we go back to the policies of the ’60s and ’70s that failed? Or will we go forward?
Will we enact the largest single tax increase since the Second World War, as my opponent proposes, or will we keep taxes low — low — for families and employers?
Under Senator Obama’s tax plan, Americans of every background would see their taxes rise: seniors, parents, small business owners, and just about everyone who has even a modest investment in the market.
He proposes to eliminate or drastically increase the Social Security’s earnings cap, the Social Security earnings cap small business people in this room are very familiar with. And that would dramatically increases the taxes on you and employers.
He proposes to eliminate the secret ballot for union votes and to raise the minimum wage and then index it, which is a sure way to add to your costs and to slow the creation of new jobs.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb…..06-10.html
I get that but it doesn’t argue for the VP slot in my opinion. It argues for a great cabinet with the right people in Defense, State, Natl. Security, Energy, etc. Putting a star of any of those as VP is a waste of talent. Let them focus on what they’re good at.
It probably wouldn’t hurt for Obama to start naming potential cabinet appointees as he gets closer to the convention and naming a Veep.
Gas, Groceries, and Graves (h/t egregious)
Valerie Plame for VP? Doesn’t she sort of need a new career? She’d have major league WMD chops.
Except that a VP has a leg up on the competition when it comes to the next Presidential race….
Will we go back to the policies of the ’60s and ’70s that failed? Or will we go forward?
By the policies that failed I assume McCain means not paying for Vietnam the same way we are not paying for the Iraq war which resulted in Nixon having to abandon the gold standard.
Today the US dollar has lost about 40% of its value to the Euro before Bush came the Dollar was stronger than the Euro.
Also wars in the middle east and an oil boycott also hurt our economy in the 70’s
I wonder if McCain has noticed the price of gas today.?
I have often said every time gas prices spike that the biggest, best, and least expensive Democratic advertising are the price signs that can be found at every gas station in the country and that almost every adult American passes these multiple times every day and is depressed and infuriated by the Republican politicians who made them possible.
i agree with much of this. but i think gore has gone through a lot of changes – morally and intellectually since 2000. at least that is my impression from listening to the evolution via his speeches 2002 through 2006.
Will we enact the largest single tax increase since the Second World War, as my opponent proposes, or will we keep taxes low — low — for families and employers
We enacted taxes during WW2 to pay for the war which is something we should have done for this war.
Either we raise taxes to pay for this war, we default on our debt, or we keep lowering the value of the Dollar to make payment easier, even if a lower dollar hurts Americans who buy GAS!
Also McCain is lying the rich got the tax break the pennies the middle class got does not equal the amount the American dollar has lost in value since Bush came to office not to mention the Dollars decline is stupid or a lie.
We do need some polling on this if anything I think with gas prices going up Obama should be higher in the polls.
Speculation, speculation, speculation. It is not instability. It is not supply and demand. It is Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley and hedge funds using the money the Fed and other central banks have pumped into financial markets to stabilize them after the subprime fiasco to fuel their speculative plays in energy futures markets where because the margins are only 5-7% this money is right off the bat leveraged 16-20 times to one. It is dark market speculation where some 30% of this action happens because the CFTC created an exception that allows for unlimited speculation in this segment.
Sorry, Norske. My reading of history doesn’t match yours.
Read Lincoln’s writings. If we take his words at face value (and we should), he had no desire to go to war, nor did he intend to eliminate slavery where it was currently legal.
On the southern side, the war was about the preservation of slavery, under the guise of “state’s rights.” On the northern side, it was about secession.
The northerners cared about slavery, but not enough to do anything to actively eliminate it, only to prevent its further spread. The southerners cared about slavery and a plethora of other things, and cared enough to fight to preserve them.
Each side was fighting for its goals, and only one side was partly (I’ll even grant mostly from the view of the oligarchs of the confederacy) fighting about slavery.
We do agree that the compromise on the slavery issue was the cancer that made some form of conflict inevitable. I don’t believe that the conflict had to be a war, it was only a war because the deep south chose to make it one.
BC
McCain would use Cheney in his cabinet:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..933/534011
Under Senator Obama’s tax plan, Americans of every background would see their taxes rise: seniors, parents, small business owners, and just about everyone who has even a modest investment in the market.
Since the Dollar has gone down in value but government expenses have either gone up or stayed the same since inflation is making everything the government buys like gas more expensive then taxes have to go up just to cover inflation costs.
But Obama would make the rich pay for most of it. McCain wants the rich to pay less.
Modest investment in the market is it fair that I am taxed less now for every dollar I earn by investing than when I made much less money working 2 jobs and overtime?
Every dollar earned should be taxed the same! Fair is Fair
(((Hugh)))
My hubby had the same response! He wouldn’t let us watch it because it was so churning the stomach acid. I couldn’t believe what she was flinging! And she was trying to assert that Obama’s policies would drive us further into recession! Yes, she used the R word a few times. And the way she got so snippy about Canada and Mexico being the friendly countries “by the way” snarky snarky snarky…ugh!! I wanted to take a potlid to the TV screen.
Al Gore or how about Dr. Dean?
:-)
I blame Wall Street games/Enron type accounting for most of our troubles today. And bush.
I think Gore’s celebrity is shining too bright for Veep. Dean might be good.
Yes, unproductive paper investment schemes that trash the real and fundamental backbones of our economy.
oh I see that bonkers already came up with the good Doctor.
(was away for a bit…)
This is my reading as well. McCain’s cindybot on newshour was telling us that everyone’s taxes are going to go up, but it was really a dogwhistle for rich people for vote for McCain. The sky isn’t falling for rich people now, just for everyone else, and the sky will certainly fall for richpeople if Obama is elected.
BTW, I’m not rich, not poor, just trying to keep my american dream of holding on to my house and getting my kids through school. I’m not trying to take over the world.
The Obama policy wonk said what you said, but not in a nice solid Foxnews mallet hitting your head type soundbite.
He proposes to eliminate the secret ballot for union votes and to raise the minimum wage and then index it, which is a sure way to add to your costs and to slow the creation of new jobs.
I don’t know anything about the Union votes issue. But if John wants to try living for a month or 2 on the minimum wage after the campaign to show us how easy it is I’m sure he will have the free time.
Wages and benefits are higher in Europe maybe we should cut military spending after all, all that high tech star wars weaponery is not winning us the war in Iraq.
With a smaller army we will only go to wars where we have allies who will help pay the costs of the war!
The Obama policy wonk said what you said, but not in a nice solid Foxnews mallet hitting your head type soundbite.
So the message was good but the speaker was bad? Was this an Obama speaker or an MSM fake liberal like Juan Williams at Fox News?
BigOil keeps shattering records for profits. At the exact same time, gas prices skyrocket.
Why is is it so hard for most of the public to realize that BigOil can basically do whatever they want. “Instability”…”supply/demand” have almost nothing to do with it. The Oil cartel can make up any prices they feel like. That’s the problem.
If that’s the message, then good. The rich aren’t even close to enough votes to get elected President.
The message is to wannaberich. If you wanna be rich, McCain’s your candidate . Not because McSame will help you get rich, but because if you figure out how to get rich, McSame will not tax you. What the wannabe’s are ignoring in that analysis is that if they do somehow get rich, they can afford to pay the taxes…
The danger is that there are enough wannaberiches out there to get elected President.
BC
Citizen BargainCountertenor:
The argument you advance that “…slavery was the cancer that made some form of conflict inevitable…(but)…I don’t believe that the conflict had to be a war…” is an old one and is only brought out today by those who would apologize for the intransigence of the Confederacy and attempt to place the burden on the North and Northern politicians who jest didn’t have the prescience and foresight to compromise with the anti-democratic presense inside a developing democratic nation. No, history through events is the final arbiter of these sorts of arguments and in this case I like Lord Bolinbroke’s phrase to describe this long since settled question…the fact that the Civil War happened and the way it happened and the fact that this election is the final battle in that great war is, as Bolingbroke said “history teaching by example”.
KEEP THE FAITH AND HISTORY WILL TEACH YOU WELL!!
yep. I know a lot of wannabees and “entitled supporters” of uberrich. “If I’m not with the winners, that means I’m a loser and we can’t have that!” so they vote against their interest and reality.
The speaker wasn’t “bad” per se. He held his own but a little wordy. The other speaker was just plain aggressive. Her Fox training showed through very clearly. She was talking louder and more forcefully and more slanderously having the nerve to imply that Obama’s policies will worsen the recession we’re in now which, of course, is not the fault of goopers.
So it’s Trust Us, We Know Money ergo We Know Economics.
Sorry I missed this thread as it was happening, but noticed not a mention of KATHLEEN SEBELIUS since comment # 188.
60+ comments in a row on a thread about Sebilius, without a mention of the thread itself? That was masterful blog bending, whoever is doing this here is a real pro…
Oil producers whether they be companies or countries are profiting from high oil prices but it is the financial investment side that is driving the speculation. The first group makes its profits on what the absolute price is. The second group makes its money in the price changes.
Couldn’t agree more that choosing an older white male with a military or national security background would be caving in to both the GOP strategy for victory and its priorities – largely channeling tax dollars into private “intelligence” and military contractors.
The choice of someone like Ms. Sibelius would poke a stick in the eye of those priorities – and respond instead to the priorities of Main Street, not Wall Street: jobs, education and healthcare. Making government work again. Cutting the role of lobbyists. Facing the need to raise taxes to pay for CheneyBush’s mountainous debts and wars. Rebuilding a sense of domestic and international community that CheneyBush felt compelled to dismantle so as to rule in fear. Ms. Sibelius and her Cabinet and Congressional peers would then be well-placed to succeed Obama in 2016.
How can we best channel Mrs. Clinton’s substantial talent and large following? She as earned a senior role in American government, whether in Obama’s Cabinet or in Congress. What does she want and what would she be best suited for? I do not think that would be as VP. I don’t think she would be able to submit to its discipline, not as traditionally defined or mildly expanded. Cheney’s version should be relegated to the trash heap: it’s a thin disguise for a usurper of a dullard king. Would head of DHHS be enough for Clinton? The next slot on the Supreme Court, or head of a Truth and Reconciliation Commission?
If McCain wins, Cheney will be his SecDef or DNI. Think about it.
I dunno. Besides losing both the sexist and the bigots, do we really want to lose a strong Dem Governor in such a red state? Actions have consequences – how will the void be filled, how might it affect other KS races?
That’s going to be a big problem. After eight years’ in opposition, the top contenders for senior Cabinet and agency posts – dozens, not just the VP slot on the ticket – are in Congress and state houses. Especially so given that many Clinton-era execs have gone over to the dark side (lobbying for neocons, telcos, etc.). Much will depend on various state rules for filling mid-term vacancies. And, of course, Congress needs its progressive leaders to recover from its own, despicable past.
OT slightly – I just received a smear email containing the following:
Of course all this stuff is taken completely out of context – but there it is. How do we counter this? And we must!
Me too! Didn’t know very much about her before and had no idea her father was a midwest governor. Of course it will fry Hillary if the rumors are true she will be unhappy and all that implies. :~(
Sorry to take it out on you but seriously. Think about that.
“I am not sure she brings any electoral votes with her. As such, she wouldn’t be at the top of my list.”
Can you name a single vice presidential pick who DID? Can you name a single potentially VP candidate who is so wildly popular that you think they could single handedly swing a state?
They don’t exist.
There are five approaches to picking a VP.
1. The geographic approach: where the nominee is selected to help in a specific state or region
2. The demographic approach: where the nominee is selected to help with some demographic group
3. The weakness approach: where the nominee is selected to ameliorate some perceived weakness by the presidential nominee
4. The message approach: where the nominee is selected to help drive the campaign’s message
5. The loyalty approach: where the nominee is selected because of his/her loyalty to the presidential nominee
The first three have never done anything for the ticket or the administration. Wasn’t Lieberman going to give us such a huge percentage of the Jewish vote that we would win? Turns out that Clinton/Gore 92 won more Jewish votes. Wasn’t Ferraro going to win the women vote for Mondale? That sure turned out well as the Mondale/Ferraro ticket got crushed among women voters. Wasn’t Edwards going to carry North Carolina and the South for us? Turns out that only about one percentage of voters care that much about the VP and so Kerry/Edwards got crushed by 12 points in NC.
The two most important factors in the VP choice are picking someone who will reinforce your message and picking someone who is loyal and you can trust.
Sebelius fits Obama’s message perfectly. He trusts her. Outside of Gore or Edwards who don’t want it she would be the best pick.
Re a few concerns:
DLC:
Yes she has some DLC ties. But then again, so does John Edwards. Al Gore founded the freaking group. Gavin Newsom, the guy who made same-sex marriage a reality in California has some ties to the DLC. Ties don’t matter. Policy matters. Out of all the choices that have been mentioned as serious contenders for VP Kathleen Sebelius has by far the most progressive record.
Bad speaker:
Her SOTU message sucked and she’s no Obama or Edwards but she isn’t Even Bayh either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nHp90Z2NJk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm8zzZuliB8 (one of the best tv reps for Obama, IMO)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..re=related
She’s no Obama but we don’t need a VP to outshine Obama like Edwards did with Kerry. If anything having a not amazing speaker on the ticket will remind people just how damn good a speaker Obama is. She is very impressive in person.
Obama needs tough white male with natl security creditability:
Picking a Wes Clark or Jim Webb would just help McCain’s argument that Obama isn’t ready to be president. Obama studied forign policy in college. He was one of the most forign policy focused state legislators in Illinois. He is already a top member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
Obama knows a ton about forign affairs. He’s going to focus on forign affairs as president. We don’t need to buy into the rights maucho manly forign policy argument.
Kathleen Sebelius is the progressive choice for VP and she fits what Obama needs perfectly.
I’m with Jane. Sebelius knows how to get shit done. Obama/Sebelius 08.