Senators Chris Dodd and Russ Feingold sent out a letter to Congressional leaders outlining why a compromise which violates the rule of law and which grants retroactive immunity to telecom companies is not only wrongheaded, it's just plain wrong. And I thought this passage was particularly blunt:
...In other words, under the Bond proposal, the result of the FISA Court’s evaluation would be predetermined. Regardless of how much information it is permitted to review, what standard of review is employed, how open the proceedings are, and what role the plaintiffs’ lawyers are permitted to play, the FISA Court would be required to grant immunity. To agree to such a proposal would not represent a reasonable compromise.
As we have explained repeatedly in the past, existing law already immunizes telephone companies that respond in good faith to a government request, as long as that request meets certain clearly spelled-out statutory requirements. This carefully designed provision protects both the companies and the privacy of innocent Americans. It gives clear guidance to companies on what government requests it should comply with and what requests it should reject because the requirements of the law are not met. The courts should be permitted to apply this longstanding provision in the pending cases to determine whether the companies that allegedly participated in the program should be granted immunity.
We also urge you to correct the significant flaws in the FISA provisions of the Senate bill, some of which were addressed in the House version. The Senate bill authorizes widespread surveillance involving innocent Americans and does not provide adequate checks and balances to protect their rights. First, it permits the government to come up with its own procedures for deciding who is a target of surveillance, and provides no meaningful consequences if the FISA Court later determines the government’s procedures are not even reasonably designed to wiretap foreigners. Second, even if the government is wiretapping foreigners outside the U.S., those foreigners need not be terrorists, suspected of any wrongdoing, or even be of any specific intelligence interest. That means the government could legally collect all communications between Americans here at home and the rest of the world. Third, the Senate version of the bill failed to prohibit the practice of reverse targeting – namely, wiretapping a person overseas when what the government is really interested in is an American here at home with whom the foreigner is communicating. Fourth, the Senate version of the bill failed to include meaningful privacy protections for the Americans whose communications will be collected in vast new quantities. We strongly believe that these problems should be corrected as the legislation moves forward.
Now that is the way to do your job, Senators. Good on ya! Have to agree with Amanda at the ACLU's Blog of Rights:
...Wouldn’t it have been nice, though, if as soon as Bond floated his non-compromise Hoyer called it what it was and said, "This doesn’t come anywhere close to protecting our constituents’ privacy and, by the way, this immunity clause i[s] complete crap." But he didn’t.
Let's give Senators Dodd and Feingold a hand. Call your members of Congress today and tell them no telecom immunity, no violation of the Fourth Amendment -- and no deal with the Bush Administration on this unless the rule of law is fully and completely upheld. Let's get to work.
You can find contact information for your elected representatives at Stop The Spying, and also get numbers for Senators here and House members here. The ACLU has more information here, here and here. Howie has more. So does McJoan and Glenn. EFF does, too, and Marty has some great analysis on why the GOP's fearmongering is a load of dung. An update in The Hill says they are "close to breaking the logjam" on FISA -- so please make your calls or send FAXes today!
(YouTube of Russ Feingold via Matt Stoller at OpenLeft.)
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Touchdown has been achieved. The mission is successful, Houston. Thank you very much!
Yay! I thought that might have been the problem. So glad I could help!
In addition to the list of Senate phone numbers, here is a source that includes both phone and fax.
They need to hear from us!
Christy, the FISA news is even worse than your post suggests. As I commented about over at Emptywheel’s last night - Our vaunted Democratic patriots at work. “Stoned” Hoyer and “Jello Jay” Rockefeller consider this a FISA “compromise”, but only because neither can spell “Sellout”. From The Hill:
Bmaz hit this last night over at Emptywheel’s place, too. He gives a great primer on the big issues involved (exclusivity, minimization, and retroactive immunity), and really goes after Hoyer and Co for seemingly caving once again to Kit Bond and the rest of the White House Watercarriers Union.
He, too, praises Dodd and Feingold, and is looking for one more senator in particular to stand up and defend the constitution:
Great post, Christy!
jus cogens!
Yep — that Hill piece is linked up above — some of that is bluster from them, I’m hearing — which is why action on this is critical today to forestall a panicked stampede one way or the other.
OT, but there has been a stunning victory in the constant battle against voter fraud.
Thanks Peterr — missed that when I was putting this together, but it is excellent advice from bmaz.
Now that is just pathetic.
It seems so obvious to me that a lot of these provisions are based on the concept of “guilty until/unless proven innocent” that I can’t help but wonder how these people that are supposed to represent Americans and uphold our laws and our Constitution got elected? I’ll never understand why conservatives and particularly Rethugs are so interested in controlling our every word, action and thought, and especially what goes on in our bedrooms. They can barely even control their own words, actions and thoughts. What’s even harder to understand is why the American people allow such infringements of their rights and freedoms so blithely, like they’ve never given it any serious thought. It’s such a complete puzzlement that I don’t even know my own neighbors or fellow citizens. I can only hope that Obama can get some of the community spirit back into the community.
Can we just put the R after their names to set my expectations? It will save my computer a lot of grief.
That’s one of the reasons that I love the short Feingold YouTube above — in 30 seconds, he encapsulates the idiocy of this whole thing. It’s brilliant.
why do you hate america? /s
To be fair, staffers for both Pelosi and Reid have communicated with me about pushback on the potential deal. This is being pushed by Hoyer and Rockefeller, and brokered between them and the Bush/Cheney WH.
I’m still not getting any straight answers from anyone as to why — because no one has been able to get any straight answer out of Steny on this, I am told.
Now that’s what “straight talk” really sounds like.
Now, pardon me for a sec while I go and check the artichoke I am steaming myself for lunch. Nummy…
thanks.
but the passivity on impeachment earns an R for me.
bluster from who?
Meant to mention, please let us know what you hear back from House and Senate folks on this. Thanks!
Oh, you mean the same Steny Hoyer who’s second largest donor is Comcast?
http://www.opensecrets.org/pol.....cycle=2008
From Hoyer, I’m told. He’s getting heat from inside the Dem caucus about this — on one side from the Progressive and rule of law folks, and on the other side from Blue Dogs who want their asses protected in red districts with an innoculation on “tough on terror” with this — thus far, Hoyer has seemed to side with them. But he’s getting some serious pressure from inside the Dem caucus as well as consistent pushback from a lot of calls and FAXes from outside. (From you guys and others, as a matter of fact — so good on you!)
My apologies to the person who answered the phone in Hoyer’s office. She told me she was unfamiliar with the FISA sellout. I told her I did not like her ignorance, and her tone of voice, and proceeded to ‘educate her’ ending on the note that I am an angry democrat looking for some leadership for a change.
I have sinned/s
Damn I am tired of fighting this battle over and over but CHS callls and we respond*g*
If Pelosi and Reid were all that darn interested, would we be having this discussion in the first place? Reid alone could have made all the difference in the world by bringing the Judiciary Bill to the floor instead of SSCI; he purposefully did not. Pelosi could similarly have laid down the law on Hoyer here, but she is letting him and Reyes willfully run free with the Repugs and White House. Why is their meager food for souls forgot “pushback” anything but condescending lip service?
By the way, we have a local community college who are known as the Fighting Artichokes.
Or Rockefeller who frolics in telco money.
http://blog.wired.com/27bstrok.....eviouspost
I’ve been trying to get some of the members of Congress who have been doing pushback on this to come on for a chat with us. The problem has been that Hoyer and Rockfeller are keeping the details of what may be negotiated so close to the vest that it is tough to discuss something when you don’t know exactly what may or may not ultimately be in it.
Am still working on it — and hopefully will have some news on that soon as well, if I can lock something down.
Well, you know how I felt about that bill selection idiocy. *G*
Odd that all this is going on at the same time that Dennis Kucinich is trying very hard to do his job against all odds. Instead of coddling the Bush administrations blatant desire for more and more power, we should be upholding Dennis’ efforts to Impeach the SOBs for overreaching the limits of their power. I know it’s an exercise in futility, but I admit that I did send Pelosi an e-mail expressing my support for Dennis and asking that she take him seriously. I told her this is not about time; it’s about crime!
I really wish the MSM, with the exception of CSpan and a few mentions on MSNBC, were also taken to task for their blackout of the subject. Since when is it not news when a sitting Representative and former candidate for the Presidency reads Articles of Impeachment on the floor of the House and forces a House vote? Especially when the entire country already knows that he’s right on most of his charges, and that at least some of them constitute high crimes and misdemeanors. It’s inexcusable.
for folks who want to add all the congress critters’ phone and fax numbers to their address books, i’ve updated the lists from last year’s fisa fight (please let me know if you find any errors) and tw3k has done some conversions to different formats (thanks tw3k!!).
senate
house
Awesome! Thanks you guys!
this comcast?
this issue concerns me more than almost any other.
This should be deemed a signature issue for the Democratic party, one on which we will never, ever bend, break or fold, or willingly sit passively by as our rights are mutilated by Republicans and corporate shills like Rockefeller.
Pump. Up. The. Volume!
You did all the hard work! I just ran the cards through a filter.
OT: Well, McC*nt sure seems to get in a lot of trouble when he doesn’t have Traitor Lieberman there to whisper “sweet know-nothings” into his ear.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/199687.php
Paging Cliff Schecter. Man, it’s gonna be a hilarious Summer and Fall.
lol. i know better!
Selise Would appreciate your help. I can’t fax but like to send e-mails. Hoyer’s site won’t let you e-mail him which I think is terrible due to his position. Anyway, do you know of another way I can e-mail him? Thanks.
Did everyone see yesterday’s Froomkin? It’s excellent…
Good Morning Christy and Firedogs -
fdl question - how do I get back to my fdl profile to update it ?
and I’m dialin’, I’m dialin awready! *g*
Being hostile towards the staff might not be the most productive way to meet your goal of educating them. I have a family member who has worked in a Congressional office, believe me you are not advancing the cause by being openly angry towards the employees. Quite the opposite.
Should also have said that you can e-mail Hoyer if you live in his district.
FWIW, here’s what Project Vote Smart has on him — and it includes a campaign e-mail addy…
try using zip code 20515 in the e mail form and see if it let’s you proceed
and there’s always this -
efax free trial
I was thinking about making a throw-away gmail account, import the contacts and join Facebook with that gmail account letting Facebook import the contacts.
Here’s my email this morning (to Boxer as well):
Jeff GoldblumDan Froomkin is such a shining like in the darkness that is the WaPoo.Egregious,
I have made hundreds of phone calls since about 2005. I am unfailingly polite for two questions and seldom raise my voice. Yet I also think it is ok to voice a bit of frustration now and then.
You are the reason I started to comment here,(as well as bmaz) and I know as my mentor that you are right.
PS. Just got a hand signed reply from Grassley with 2 paragraphs handwritten where he took exception to telling him he must TRUST BUT VERIFY.
Yep. Plus, he irritates Deb Howell — what’s not to love? *g*
Selise, as you know, I have been using the numbers from your original iteration of this data. Do you or anyone else know how I might now update my business cards in my address book systematically without having to redo or reenter the entire thing? In other words, is there a way wherein I could take the new file and it would then search each name in my address book and if all the info is the same, just leave it alone, or just change those things that have changed? Perhaps it could ask me questions if I have made physical corrections before it just changes things? Huh, huh, huh? So far I really haven’t had much problem with the original file that I’ve been using. Thanks again for doing all that work.
Thanks all for the Hoyer info.
Christy, I talked w/Hoyer’s office a couple of days ago. Courtesy, yes… no pretense of interest once they learned I was not a constituent.
I used his non-free phone number on the off chance such call get better attention. That said, certainly worth calling - needs to understand this is not under the radar.
Everybody hates the telcos. Rhetorical question - wth haven’t we been able to tap into that?
Thank you, thank you for staying on this and having the right words. IMHO, this goes to the heart of our access to an effective judicial system. The complicity is a scandal.
Thanks Jim, interesting that you got a handwritten letter! One to keep.
i’m sorry, the only ones i see are probably the same one you found (all i did was mostly cut-n-paste):
this one asks for a zip code:
http://www.hoyer.house.gov/contact/email.asp
Hey Christy,
Thank you for continuing the fight. Thanks to bmaz too. Great posts by both of you.
Christy, you could add bmaz’ piece as an update to your post? Updates seem to catch people’s attention and they reread posts. Re-readings on FISA are really needed at this point in order to push readers to action.
Additionally, can FDL keep this post up for a while, or ONLY do FISA posts in order to keep people on task today?
I do not want to see FDL commit the sin of distraction with non FISA posts. We. Have. To. Win. This. Now.
Perhaps the next FISA post could be to change bmaz’ EW post to a cross posting.
Additionally, on faxed letters. Could we start having individuals share their letter content to help others compose letters? Today is a day to get new friends involved. Seeing suggested letter content in the comments will assist newcomers to the concern.( Would really love a letter tool box on the site some day…)
I know many of us have hung with Christy and crew on FISA for a time now, but we need more people to come forward TODAY! Get friends to respond too.
Like bmaz says, do not forget to write Obama. He could really lead on this and set a foundation that is reality based in his own actions in terms of his “campaign” for change. Now is the time to make his word on “change” his “word.” Change. Change FISA.
oh, that’s a great resource for campaign info. i’m going to have to update the lists again to include that. thank you!
EG - heh heh. I have know Clause since law school. His mean is nicer than my nice. Trust me, he was fine….
Too funny…
Silly man…
i think it’s going to depend on what program you are using. iirc you are using outlook? maybe some experts here can help?
or you might make an archive first of what you have, and then try updating - that way if there is any problem you can revert to your old files.
and fyi, i don’t think i made any changes to the senate list - just the house list.
Also, if you are calling either Dodd or Feingold, do take the time to tell them thank you for all of their hard work on this. What we have seen publicly is nothing compared to what they and their staffs have pushed behind-the-scenes. Feingold’s staff has been nothing short of amazing on this issue for months and months, and they really deserve a thank you from us.
Thanks Bmaz,
I have gotten mean since 1983!
This was a long comment that I put in a couple of threads yesterday. It has to do with the spinning of a sellout on FISA by none other than NYT’s reporter Eric Lichtblau.
Another Adventure in Reading the New York Times
Eric Lichtblau is often considered a hero reporter because he broke the story on the NSA warrantless wiretapping program. Lost in the shuffle is that Lichtblau and the Times sat on the story for 14 months through the 2004 elections and the Times only decided to publish the story after Lichtblau learned that James Risen with whom he had done the original investigation was going to use this material in a book he was writing.
In the June 10, 2008 edition of the NYT, Lichtblau has an article Return to Old Spy Rules Is Seen as Deadline Nears:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06.....tml?ref=us
It is a piece that Michael Gordon would be proud of it since uses one of his signature devices, the needlessly anonymous source:
As the last sentence indicates, this article is a hopeless, White House spinning botch. The revision that has been under consideration in Congress is precisely to FISA. Surveillance that is strictly foreign was never covered under FISA and has always been considered to be completely legitimate and not to require any legislative authorization. So right away, you see that Lichtblau is involved in a bait and switch.
Again this is just a straightforward lie. FISA covers cases where there is an American angle to the surveillance, i.e. if one end of a communication originates in this country or if the target is an American overseas. As I said above, FISA has nothing to do with foreign on foreign communication although this is a favorite talking point of right wingers.
Lichtblau does give some idea about what the Bush Administration is having fits about though:
In other words, blanket wiretaps. So say a resident of Dearborn, Michigan where 1/3 of the population is of Arab descent calls someone in the Middle East then very likely he/she and the person they called were “targets” and got hoovered up.
As to the politics of this, Lichtblau blows through them. Democrats caved last year and voted for a 6 month extension the Protect America Act (PAA) before the August recess. They did so in part because DNI Mike McConnell lied to them, reneged on a deal he had made with them, and then fabricated threats to pressure them. When the issue was taken up at the end of last year, the spirited opposition of Chris Dodd forced the enabling Harry Reid to back off. Then the Republicans, you know the party of National Security, began to play political games with the issue. Despite this, Harry Reid and Jay Rockefeller successfully caved and the Senate passed an amended FISA Act on February 12. Boehner and Republicans in the House tried a similar tactic but when they voted against the House bill, to the surprise of both Republicans and Democratic leaders, a group of Democratic progressives joined them and voted the bill down. As a result, the PAA expired. It did not die completely, however. Wiretaps begun under it could run for a year, meaning that these would start to expire in August. The principal snag in this for Bush was the issue of immunity for the telecoms. The telecoms didn’t need immunity because they were covered under existing law. They certainly didn’t deserve it, but that wasn’t the point. Immunity would kill the lawsuits that might expose the extent of domestic spying that Bush and his Adminstration had been engaged in. In addition, Lichtblau covers none of the other main issues: minimization, reverse targeting, and segregation. Instead we get spin. There were problems, now there are negotiations, both sides “have given some ground in the talks.” Yeah, right. Compromise is a byword of this Administration.
As for the FISA court (FISC), Lichtblau raises the scary possibility noted above that “individual warrants, potentially thousands of them” might have to be prepared for approval by the FISC and notes:
So the FISC is portrayed as this insuperable obstacle to foreign surveillance. Yet of some 25,000 FISA requests from 1979 through 2007, the FISC has turned down a total of 9.
http://epic.org/privacy/wireta.....stats.html
Lichtblau also raises the issue of foreign communications going through American switches. Again this is a diversion, a red herring. All sides have signaled that they would be willing to sign off on this and if Bush and the Republicans wanted a bill on this, they could have had it 10 months ago. Lichtblau even uses the old line that the Democrats want to get this over and done with by the convention because by caving in to the Republicans and a deeply unpopular President at the end of his term they will appear strong on national security.
Perhaps the most disingenuous flourish in the whole article Lichtblau saves for the end when he accords the last word finally to a real critic Caroline Fredrickson of the ACLU. “Why not just kick it down the road” through a short-term extension, she asked. “If there’s a need to do something, they should do the least harm possible.” This is the traditional media’s idea of balance: write a whole article full of spin and distortion, throw in a final comment by someone with an opposing view and voilà you have achieved fairness and balance.
I trust you saw this follow-up:
http://tpmelectioncentral.talk.....ins_co.php
Nothing better than watching two old guys with “experience” constantly saying “what I/he meant was…”
This all seems like the Bizarro World version of the Democrats’ success on stopping Bush’s Social Security “reform” three years ago. We succeeded in that fight by NOT proposing anything. Since Pelosi led that fight, which we won, I’m very surprised she’s letting Steny belly up to the GOP table with proposals.
The Democratic Congress already knows that doing nothing is the best way to counter these bullshit artists. Why do they continue to pursue a “compromise” unless their corporate masters insist on it?
Speaking of coporate masters! — is Chris Carney still in the lead on this “compromise?” Are Blue America PAC’s ads having an effect on him?
I downloaded this:
http://labs.brotherli.ch/vcfconvert/
used it like a shell script to convert all the vCard to csv. Then used to gmail to convert it back to vCard. diff and patch could be used to merge changes.
The Howie link above has some info on Carney, Teddy…
I’m no ready for youtube being on dialup but did you notice this youteube link in the first comment about McCain position(s) on Iraq?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8TFKXHiefs
Spoke to a staffer on the Hill a coupla minutes ago who has been working on this issue and he asked that I tell you all thanks so much for all your efforts on this. It is really nice for them to know that we back up the folks who are working hard on rule of law work — because the media coverage of it has been, shall we say, less than thorough…
If you cannot get through to a senator or congressperson via their site using their email because you don’ t live in their district just find an address in their district and use it. I often use their own address with a number or two changed.
good idea, thanks
I’m getting a recording on Senator Obama’s Washington line. I’ll keep trying. I just spoke to people in both Hoyer’s and Rockefeller’s offices. The tack I used was to point out that the positions being taken by them were doing tremendous harm to our country and our Constitution. I also pointed out that they are members of the Democratic Party and that our nominee has come out against retroactive immunity. I especially pointed this out to Rockefeller’s office, since he has endorsed Obama. I asked him to defer to Obama’s leadership on this issue. At Hoyer’s office, I did get shunted from the first person who answered the phone to another one; I don’t know if he is someone on the FISA issue or just another phone person. I was on hold a while before he came on the line.
At both offices, I asked that they endorse a simple revision that addresses only the problem with foreign-to-foreign communication (see Glenn’s post yesterday for a great explanation of why this should be done and what a great bargaining position it would put Democrats in).
I wonder how the Europeans or Asians feel about this country listening to their communications without constraint. What is the moral difference between listening to anyone’s private conversations in Paris or New Orleans???? We need to be able to listen to the bad guys but to anyone at random?
Thanks, Jim — great job. Really appreciate the report back on the calls…great tack to take with Rockefeller, too, btw.
As strange as it may seem listening in on foreign communications is an established, accepted part of international relations. In electronic terms, it predates the telephone and goes back to the days of the telegraph. In other words, this has been going on for more than a century.
oh what a hoot.
that youtube is clips from mcsame’s floor speech on withdrawal from somalia 11/14/93. here is the link to the congressional record for the transcript (note: may have been “revised and extended” but looks ok compared to the youtube clips).
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/.....001:S13390
(use first link)
Well done Jim. Thank you for sharing your insight and experience with your calls.
I like how you pushed Rockefeller to defer to Obama’s leadership.
stealing this right now. thanks!
Thanks for the transcript. I especially like McCain’s statement:
Jim,
Gonna call Rockefeller right now. Superb comment. Thanks.
Phone - (202) 225-4131 Hoyer’s DC constituent service phone number. If you have unlimited long distance (particularly if you have caller id block), this could be useful.
I’m thinking calls/faxes to his local offices might be felt:
Main District Office:
6500 Cherrywood Lane, #310
Greenbelt, MD 20770
Phone: (301) 474-0119
Fax: (301) 474-4697
Another office in Waldorf:
401 Post Office Road, Ste. 202
Waldorf, MD 20602
Phone - (301) 843-1577
Fax - (301) 843-1331
Isn’t that the truth? Every time I turn on cable, one gasbag or another is blabbing about whether HIllary will be Obama’s running mate. You’d never even know Congress was in session, or that Dennis introduced 35 articles of impeachment, or that telecom immunity is on the table, or even that Bush is abroad. Having narrowed their focus to the Obama/Clinton primary, it’s as if the bobbleheads have completely forgotten there’s anything else to talk about.
I wonder how the people of this country feel about their conversations being eavesdropped by intelligence agencies in Britain, France, Germany, Russia, China, India, etc. As near as I can tell, if the standard is that we cannot be listened to by our own government, but we can listen to the rest of the world with impunity, and that standard is applied worldwide, then it’s okay for any other government to listen in to all our communications. So we’ve already lost whatever right to privacy we once thought we had due to the negligence of our own Congressional Representatives, and that includes our Senate. There is nothing to stop those foreign governments from exchanging information with ours, and vice versa. If you ask me, unless the standard changes, the whole question is moot.
I finally got through to a live person in Obama’s Washington office. I passed along congratulations on the nomination, thanked him for his previous statements in opposition to retroactive immunity and asked for him to take the lead on FISA now. I asked for him to call Hoyer and Rockefeller and ask them to stop selling out the Constitution (as the Constitutional law professor that he is).
I also got through to offer thank-yous to Dodd and Feingold, yet again.
just got off the phone with Reyes congr office and comm office - “thanks for your imput” was all I got
followed up with an e fax - that contained my letter to the El Paso Times - you know, the one asking why Congressman Reyes would even consider doing Dick Cheney’s lawless bidding
there is a spanish language paper in El Paso - El Diario de El Paso, but can not seem to find their direct website - keep getting the media kit one
http://www.elpasotimes.com/ - in case any of you are so inclined
Please Join Us For Steny’s 28th Annual Bull Roast
http://hoyerforcongress.com/
Friday, June 13th
6 - 8 pm
The Newton White Mansion
2708 Enterprise Road
Mitchellville, MD
Rain or shine!
Tickets are $35 regular priced, $30 for seniors and $15 for students.
For tickets, please contact my office at (301) 464-5710.
I got through to obama and told him not to compromise in anyway on this fisa stuff.The guy who took the call cut me off short and asked me my zip and said he wuold pass it on.Seems like they’re receiving quite a few calls or that’s their policy.I wish he would have let me make my point.I’m going to call the lawyers who are representing me in this class action suit i’m in against ATT to see what they have to say about all this and will let you all know.This is it for me.Ive had it with these people.It’s either now or never as far as I’m concerned
For those of you who have GOP critters and think they might be hopeless, I’ll mention commenter perris’s straightforward question: how am I kept free from competitors who might bribe wiretappers to discover my business plans, my trade secrets, my inventions, my investments, my alliances?
Voicing the perspective of a potentially aggrieved business person who’s worried about this eavesdropping power falling into the hands of a (scary!) Democratic administration might be better heard by the folks answering the phones in GOP critters’ offices, just sayin’
Jim,
I used your argument on Rockefeller’s staffer and felt it was an effective call then reversed the argument with Obama’s staffer,who sounded busy but really listened.
Thanks.
What would it take for the House Dems to attack Hoyer and force him out of his position? What can we do to ENCOURAGE a general attack on Hoyer’s failed “leadership”?
[Mod note: please find a different concept than ’attack’ with its overtones of violence, thanks.]
I would add that I was blown away this week to see that Mel Martinez was among several Republican Senators who crossed over this week on a global warming vote. They just missed shutting down the R filibuster. Several Republicans are starting to get very worried about November.
Fresh Froomkin up now.
Also, MSNBC pimpin’ the