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	<title>Comments on: Holy Crap, if you will</title>
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		<title>By: libbyliberal</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/10/holy-crap-if-you-will/#comment-1489770</link>
		<dc:creator>libbyliberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Good for you to keep on talking despite his denial.  inspirational.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good for you to keep on talking despite his denial.  inspirational.</p>
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		<title>By: ThingsComeUndone</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/10/holy-crap-if-you-will/#comment-1489097</link>
		<dc:creator>ThingsComeUndone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;sure but I’ll be upstairs:)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sure but I’ll be upstairs:)</p>
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		<title>By: rxbusa</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/10/holy-crap-if-you-will/#comment-1489098</link>
		<dc:creator>rxbusa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I just sent the letter at the bottom to my email list; feel free to use.  However, I have a question:  assuming that Nancy Pelosi will seek to bury this, just which committee should we also be calling and writing to protest?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Last night Dennis Kucinich presented 35 articles of impeachment against Pres. Bush.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Kucinich_presents_Bush_impeachment_articles_0609.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://rawstory.com/news/2008/....._0609.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;if you want to see this acted on and not buried by Nancy Pelosi, please call and write your Congress critter ASAP.&lt;br /&gt;
Toll free switchboard number I have been inflicting on every thread, 800-828-0498, and the list of House Representatives  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.house.gov/house/Mem.....tate.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;or find your representative by zip code at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.congress.org/congressorg/directory/congdir.tt&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.congress.org/congre.....congdir.tt&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just sent the letter at the bottom to my email list; feel free to use.  However, I have a question:  assuming that Nancy Pelosi will seek to bury this, just which committee should we also be calling and writing to protest?</p>
<blockquote><p>Last night Dennis Kucinich presented 35 articles of impeachment against Pres. Bush.  <a href="http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Kucinich_presents_Bush_impeachment_articles_0609.html" rel="nofollow">http://rawstory.com/news/2008/&#8230;.._0609.html</a></p>
<p>if you want to see this acted on and not buried by Nancy Pelosi, please call and write your Congress critter ASAP.<br />
Toll free switchboard number I have been inflicting on every thread, 800-828-0498, and the list of House Representatives  <a href="http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.house.gov/house/Mem&#8230;..tate.shtml</a></p>
<p>or find your representative by zip code at <a href="http://www.congress.org/congressorg/directory/congdir.tt" rel="nofollow">http://www.congress.org/congre&#8230;..congdir.tt</a></p>
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		<title>By: bluejeansntshirt</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/10/holy-crap-if-you-will/#comment-1489093</link>
		<dc:creator>bluejeansntshirt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:24:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;link to &lt;a href=&quot;http://thinkprogress.org/2008/06/09/breakingkucinich-introduces-articles-of-impeachment-against-bush/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Kucinich’s speech&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>link to <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2008/06/09/breakingkucinich-introduces-articles-of-impeachment-against-bush/" rel="nofollow">Kucinich’s speech</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: SouthernDragon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/10/holy-crap-if-you-will/#comment-1489091</link>
		<dc:creator>SouthernDragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:23:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;No, but I’ve been exposed to the Lakota world view and am very comfortable with it.  I also spent many years in Asia so was exposed to Eastern philosphy.  The Asians and Native Americans are more in tune with the earth.  The three major religions are fixated on a universe created by something in the male image, very controlling and very patriarchal.  Doesn’t work for me.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If you’re interested in a tune by a Lakota on Christianity I’ll provide a link.  It’s not flattering.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, but I’ve been exposed to the Lakota world view and am very comfortable with it.  I also spent many years in Asia so was exposed to Eastern philosphy.  The Asians and Native Americans are more in tune with the earth.  The three major religions are fixated on a universe created by something in the male image, very controlling and very patriarchal.  Doesn’t work for me.</p>
<p>If you’re interested in a tune by a Lakota on Christianity I’ll provide a link.  It’s not flattering.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/10/holy-crap-if-you-will/#comment-1489089</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:21:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/10/holy-crap-if-you-will/#comment-1489089</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;a comment on attaturk’s pic because i like healy’s “webster’s reply to hayne” and it hangs in faneuil hall. (click on my name and you will see a bit of it in the header of the weekly congressional hearing list and hugh’s list of bush scandals).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;on the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.constitution.org/hwdebate/hwdebate.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Hayne-Webster Debate&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;The Hayne-Webster Debate was an unplanned series of speeches in the Senate, during which Robert Hayne of South Carolina interpreted the Constitution as little more than a treaty between sovereign states, and Daniel Webster expressed the concept of the United States as one nation.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The debate cemented the image of Daniel Webster, as a legendary defender of Constitution and Union. It was the subject of great popular paintings, showing Webster in the golden glow of the Senate dome, his glowering eyes fixed on John C. Calhoun, who besides being a more prominent advocate of Hayne’s doctrine, was the president of the Senate at the time.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Many of the 4-page weekly newspapers of the day for weeks printed little but excerpts from the debate. Niles Weekly Register, typically around twenty pages, printed it in its entirity, crowding out most other items for a month. Some papers apologized for not having printed it sooner than they did.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What did this debate mean to 19th century Americans? The modern ear cannot easily hear what it was that made Webster’s oratory “godlike”, yet histories of the U.S. in the early 1830s speak of it as a great event.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Webster’s Reply to Hayne, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/art/artifact/Painting_31_00016.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;painted by George P.A. Healy&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;…was originally commissioned by King Louis Philippe of France. Healy had suggested the subject to the king in the summer or fall of 1843. Louis Philippe envisioned a museum in the former royal palace at Versailles that would be dedicated to the ideals and individuals of modern republicanism in Europe and America. To that end, he had already sent Healy back to America in 1842 to paint portraits or copy existing portraits of American statesmen for his museum. Webster’s Reply to Hayne was destined for the same site. But with the fall of Louis Philippe in 1848, that project was suspended. In 1852 the painting was exhibited at Faneuil Hall in Boston, where it has remained. In his monumental canvas, painted some 20 years after the event, Healy included not only the members who witnessed the debates, but also individuals he knew or admired who were never present. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;and here is a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.greatbuildings.com/cgi-bin/gbi.cgi/Faneuil_Hall.html/cid_1001605345_Faneuil_Hall_200104-13.gbi&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;nice photo&lt;/a&gt; of the painting in faneuil hall.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a comment on attaturk’s pic because i like healy’s “webster’s reply to hayne” and it hangs in faneuil hall. (click on my name and you will see a bit of it in the header of the weekly congressional hearing list and hugh’s list of bush scandals).</p>
<p>on the <a href="http://www.constitution.org/hwdebate/hwdebate.htm" rel="nofollow">Hayne-Webster Debate</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>The Hayne-Webster Debate was an unplanned series of speeches in the Senate, during which Robert Hayne of South Carolina interpreted the Constitution as little more than a treaty between sovereign states, and Daniel Webster expressed the concept of the United States as one nation.</p>
<p>The debate cemented the image of Daniel Webster, as a legendary defender of Constitution and Union. It was the subject of great popular paintings, showing Webster in the golden glow of the Senate dome, his glowering eyes fixed on John C. Calhoun, who besides being a more prominent advocate of Hayne’s doctrine, was the president of the Senate at the time.</p>
<p>Many of the 4-page weekly newspapers of the day for weeks printed little but excerpts from the debate. Niles Weekly Register, typically around twenty pages, printed it in its entirity, crowding out most other items for a month. Some papers apologized for not having printed it sooner than they did.</p>
<p>What did this debate mean to 19th century Americans? The modern ear cannot easily hear what it was that made Webster’s oratory “godlike”, yet histories of the U.S. in the early 1830s speak of it as a great event.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Webster’s Reply to Hayne, <a href="http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/art/artifact/Painting_31_00016.htm" rel="nofollow">painted by George P.A. Healy</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>…was originally commissioned by King Louis Philippe of France. Healy had suggested the subject to the king in the summer or fall of 1843. Louis Philippe envisioned a museum in the former royal palace at Versailles that would be dedicated to the ideals and individuals of modern republicanism in Europe and America. To that end, he had already sent Healy back to America in 1842 to paint portraits or copy existing portraits of American statesmen for his museum. Webster’s Reply to Hayne was destined for the same site. But with the fall of Louis Philippe in 1848, that project was suspended. In 1852 the painting was exhibited at Faneuil Hall in Boston, where it has remained. In his monumental canvas, painted some 20 years after the event, Healy included not only the members who witnessed the debates, but also individuals he knew or admired who were never present. </p>
</blockquote>
<p>and here is a <a href="http://www.greatbuildings.com/cgi-bin/gbi.cgi/Faneuil_Hall.html/cid_1001605345_Faneuil_Hall_200104-13.gbi" rel="nofollow">nice photo</a> of the painting in faneuil hall.</p>
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		<title>By: ThingsComeUndone</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/10/holy-crap-if-you-will/#comment-1489087</link>
		<dc:creator>ThingsComeUndone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Spiritualism, Pray, Good Thoughts/Vibes whatever  I like it   (((Quaker Girl)))&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Your American Indian I take it?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spiritualism, Pray, Good Thoughts/Vibes whatever  I like it   (((Quaker Girl)))</p>
<p>Your American Indian I take it?</p>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/10/holy-crap-if-you-will/#comment-1489086</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;My spouse is a “Greg”.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He gets his news in 10-second soundbites, sitting in the airport between flights across the country — which also means he only gets CNN and Fox since no airport here ever shows anything but these two cable news outlets.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I work in alternative media, and every chance I get, I point out what my reporters are covering and seeing, and what the corporate media isn’t reporting.  It’s taken most of the last 4 years, but I think I’ve finally broken through.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The most challenging part is their native skepticism; they have been “bred” to believe if it’s on TV, it’s true.  “Gregs” like my spouse are more willing to believe a talking head in a suit on television than their own spouse (that’s sad), even though they trust their spouse with their lives, children and their assets because of the myth of television’s truth.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What you’ll need to provide to “Greg” is data; you can tell him you understand that he makes business decisions based on facts, and that you can get him all the facts he wants.  One of the first things he needs understand is that the market is telling him something and he’s not listening — which in the business world would cost him money.  If he picked apart this bit, “&lt;em&gt;There is no reason to impeach. I don’t see why the District 1 candidates here keep talking about it!&lt;/em&gt;”, he would see that the candidates are talking about it because their constituents are demanding it.  And constituents are a market.  The market is telling “Greg” that they are seriously unhappy and feel that criminal activity has occurred, and if candidates are talking about it, then “Greg” is the one disconnected.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Once he groks this, you are ready to point out that the corporate media have a vested interest in the status quo, which includes his continued reliance on them instead of other media.  You can ask him at this point exactly how much his and others’ attention is worth, and if they’re willing  to continue to mistake consumption of media for participation in democracy in exchange for media’s continued grip on them.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Been there, done that, keep on ‘em.  Good luck!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My spouse is a “Greg”.</p>
<p>He gets his news in 10-second soundbites, sitting in the airport between flights across the country — which also means he only gets CNN and Fox since no airport here ever shows anything but these two cable news outlets.</p>
<p>I work in alternative media, and every chance I get, I point out what my reporters are covering and seeing, and what the corporate media isn’t reporting.  It’s taken most of the last 4 years, but I think I’ve finally broken through.</p>
<p>The most challenging part is their native skepticism; they have been “bred” to believe if it’s on TV, it’s true.  “Gregs” like my spouse are more willing to believe a talking head in a suit on television than their own spouse (that’s sad), even though they trust their spouse with their lives, children and their assets because of the myth of television’s truth.</p>
<p>What you’ll need to provide to “Greg” is data; you can tell him you understand that he makes business decisions based on facts, and that you can get him all the facts he wants.  One of the first things he needs understand is that the market is telling him something and he’s not listening — which in the business world would cost him money.  If he picked apart this bit, “<em>There is no reason to impeach. I don’t see why the District 1 candidates here keep talking about it!</em>”, he would see that the candidates are talking about it because their constituents are demanding it.  And constituents are a market.  The market is telling “Greg” that they are seriously unhappy and feel that criminal activity has occurred, and if candidates are talking about it, then “Greg” is the one disconnected.  </p>
<p>Once he groks this, you are ready to point out that the corporate media have a vested interest in the status quo, which includes his continued reliance on them instead of other media.  You can ask him at this point exactly how much his and others’ attention is worth, and if they’re willing  to continue to mistake consumption of media for participation in democracy in exchange for media’s continued grip on them.</p>
<p>Been there, done that, keep on ‘em.  Good luck!</p>
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		<title>By: SouthernDragon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/10/holy-crap-if-you-will/#comment-1489085</link>
		<dc:creator>SouthernDragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:14:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Patience, grasshopper.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s a marathon, not a sprint.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patience, grasshopper.  </p>
<p>It’s a marathon, not a sprint.</p>
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		<title>By: Elliott</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/10/holy-crap-if-you-will/#comment-1489084</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 12:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;If it’s Tuesday there’s &lt;a href=&quot;http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/10/everything-proceeding-awesomelyplease-go-shopping/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;more Attaturk upstairs&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it’s Tuesday there’s <a href="http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/10/everything-proceeding-awesomelyplease-go-shopping/" rel="nofollow">more Attaturk upstairs</a></p>
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