…or dumpster diving as the case may be thanks to the also awesome domestic economy we in the Bush Administration have given you. So please pay no attention to this:
The Bush administration is conceding for the first time that the United States may not finish a complex security agreement with Iraq before President Bush leaves office.
Faced with stiff Iraqi opposition, it is "very possible" the U.S. may have to extend an existing U.N. mandate, said a senior administration official close to the talks. That would mean major decisions about how U.S. forces operate in Iraq could be left to the next president, including how much authority the U.S. must give Iraqis over military operations and how quickly the handover takes place.
Meanwhile, as was noted last week, Iraqi parliamentarians visited our Congress and had this to say:
In the hearing, parliamentarians Nadeem Al-Jaberi and Khalaf Al-Ulayyan expressed their support for a timetable for withdrawal of U.S. troops. In an exchange with Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX), Al-Jaberi said that U.S. presence in Iraq is highly unpopular with the public, as roughly 70 percent of Iraqis favor a withdrawal
Which means this is no surprise:
Iraqi lawmakers say the United States is demanding 58 bases as part of a proposed "status of forces" agreement that will allow U.S. troops to remain in the country indefinitely.
Leading members of the two ruling Shiite parties said in a series of interviews the Iraqi government rejected this proposal along with another U.S. demand that would have effectively handed over to the United States the power to determine if a hostile act from another country is aggression against Iraq. Lawmakers said they fear this power would drag Iraq into a war between the United States and Iran.
"The points that were put forth by the Americans were more abominable than the occupation," said Jalal al Din al Saghir, a leading lawmaker from the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq. "We were occupied by order of the Security Council," he said, referring to the 2004 Resolution mandating a U.S. military occupation in Iraq at the head of an international coalition. "But now we are being asked to sign for our own occupation. That is why we have absolutely refused all that we have seen so far."
Which sounds very similar to the words of the real winner of Bush’s Iraq adventure — the real leader of Iran:
Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei warned Iraq’s visiting prime minister yesterday against signing an agreement with the US keeping foreign troops in the country beyond 2008.
The continued presence of US troops was Iraq’s “fundamental problem,” Khamenei told Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, expressing confidence that Iran’s western neighbour would dash the “dreams” of the US.
And now the quote that shows it takes $2 to 3 trillion to give Joe Lieberman agita:
Television pictures showed the Shia Iraqi premier wearing a white shirt, without the necktie he had been wearing until now during his visit. Ties are still frowned on in the Islamic Republic as a sign of Western imperialism.
He thanked Iran for its “ceaseless” support of Iraq, state television said.
“Definitely this was a fruitful trip. This trip was definitely a step forwards in the aims set by both nations, I hope that they are materialised,” Maliki told reporters before leaving Tehran.
Something for an actual journalist to mention to McCain when he discusses how awesomely right he’s always been about this war. That’s some serious "strategery". Not many leaders or enablers can spill so much blood and so much treasure to win a war for another country they dislike even more than the place they invaded.
Now, that’s change you can believe in…not repeating.
(picture via REUTERS/FARS NEWS (IRAN))
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Mornin’!
The level of idiocy is astonishing.
Nothing about W and the gang astonishes me any more. I’ve arrived at “completely numb,” which is better for my blood pressure. 224 days.
In the hearing, parliamentarians Nadeem Al-Jaberi and Khalaf Al-Ulayyan expressed their support for a timetable for withdrawal of U.S. troops. In an exchange with Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX), Al-Jaberi said that U.S. presence in Iraq is highly unpopular with the public, as roughly 70 percent of Iraqis favor a withdrawal
70 % hey if the Iraqi’s don’t want us there lets have them vote on whether we should leave and then leave. Lets spread some Democracy even if the people don’t vote Bush’s way:)
Left you an answer on previous thread.
Gee, if the Iraqi parliamentarians are sounding just like the (real) leader of Iran, that must be a sign of malign Iranian influence, and we have to bomb them, right? /bushthink
O/T Do we have to wait until Thursday to talk about this report from Waxman about Bush’s Abramoff ties? Why is there nothing in the papers about it today? I heard a blurb on NPR, but nothing else. I had to Google it.
The bottom line is that Bush didn’t investigate itself, after it said it would, about it’s connections to Abramoff. Obviously, there was more influence than the Bush WH didn’t disclose.
OT
the Senate Judiciary Committe hearing:
Coercive Interrogation Techniques: Do They Work, Are They Reliable, and What Did the FBI Know About Them? “
has been moved up to 9:30 am
link to website, which has link for the webcast
Thank you Attaturk. Well done!
I read it got the link?
Good morning Attaturk and all,
BOGUS ! End the rape of Iraq now. Imagine our feelings with us in Iraq’s place and China dictating terms of the portion of our mid-western grain to be shipped to China ,our population be damned and where the bases will be located.
Peace now DAMN it !
Coercive Interrogation Techniques
Is that the new code word for torture? I swear I need a code book to keep up sometimes.
Ya have to do a little work with this link. Click on “Enter Site”. New window pops up. On the left click on Multimedia. Window changes. At the top click on Trudell Music. Window changes. Click on third tune down, “Hanging from the Cross.”
http://www.trudellthemovie.com/
It would be great to see a timetable for restoring democracy to America. As for Obama…give until it hurts.
I think the idea is that you don’t have to torture people to coerce information out of them. In fact, as we’ve said many times here, it’s a pretty lousy way to interrogate anyone. The only reason to torture is to subdue and humiliate and pacify a person/population.
The neocon crystal ball seems to be having technical problems.
epu’ed below, but I really do want to know who else to call or write to:
I just sent the letter at the bottom to my email list; feel free to use. However, I have a question: assuming that Nancy Pelosi will seek to bury this, just which committee should we also be calling and writing to protest?
Sometimes they’re “enhanced,” which used to be a word that denoted an improvement. Now, not so much…
and the sheer pleasure of watching — for the likes of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld.
Mary Cheney’s comments that “the time for diplomacy has ended” fit curiously with these developments.
http://firedoglake.com/2008/06…..ys-cheney/ (et al)
It seems that the Cheneys are slowly waking up to the realization that they’ve been played, and that the “angler” has himself been hooked on an Iranian lure for quite some time. From McClatchy
Cheney’s a mean old trout, and he can be counted on to fight back hard.
Use Reagan like tactics…pay off the enemy to do your bidding. It worked for the USSR.
That says it all.
Torture is very effective at extracting false confessions, which in turn are useful to the powers-that-be to have ‘evidence” for what they want to do or to prosecute the confessors. It is sp much easier than the other way.
Morning pups! I would like to initiate a big round of applause for Dennis Kucinich. He was incredible last night on the House floor for 5 hours innumerating (I believe the final tally was 30) articles of impeachment.
This was the most concise accounting of the Bush adm crimes against the US and I ask that we all contact Rep Kucinich & thank him and his staff for this outstanding effort.
Good Morning Attaturk and Firedogs –
from here it looks like the site went all wonga again – anyone else seeing this ?
Americans have only just begun to scratch the surface on the corruptions and incompetencies of the Bush administration. Having a president whose corruptions and incompetencies are so egregiously profound makes it extremely difficult for normal human beings to discern if he’s more evil or more feckless. Me, I’ve decided to eliminate trying to understand the underlying cause of Bush’s criminal malfeseance and focus on the effects. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter why Bush screws up so thoroughly. It only matters what he destroys and wastes and who he maims and murders. He is the reason our country and our people are experiencing so many unecessary difficulties. He is the reason our economy is tanking and why our real enemies are laughing at us as their power grows and ours is pissed away.
it looks just fine where I’m sitting.
35 – guess I lost count somewhere along the way. Cudos to Kucinich!!
Good morning…. did I miss a another server burb?
Really too bad that Dennis Kucinich was on the house floor at around 11-12pm EDT talking to an empty chamber (did they ever show that anyone was there?)
Please go shopping…can it be for high heels?
Good morning Attaturk, pups
Dennis started about 7:00 PM and the floor was his until almost midnight.
C-Span did not pan the rest of the chamber, so it was hard to tell how many reps were in attendance.
IT WAS FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thank you!
I was running around getting the things I need for my trip and listening to it on Mike Malloy’s radio show and caught some of it when I got home…. if he was out there by himself in an empty chamber except to the “house speaker” then that is really sad….. kind of like …. if a tell falls in the forest..
Which sounds very similar to the words of the real winner of Bush’s Iraq adventure — the real leader of Iran:
Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei warned Iraq’s visiting prime minister yesterday against signing an agreement with the US keeping foreign troops in the country beyond 2008.
The continued presence of US troops was Iraq’s “fundamental problem,” Khamenei told Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, expressing confidence that Iran’s western neighbour would dash the “dreams” of the US.
” For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue an enemy without fighting is the acme of skill ” pg 79 ” The Art of War” Sun Tzu
Even if Bush bombs Iran at best he delays but does not stop Iran from refining Uranium. Iran on the other hand has lost Iraq as an enemy to the West and Afghanistan as an enemy to the East thanks to us.
Now Bush has to leave Iraq because we can’t afford to stay and Bush of course won’t tax his base to pay for his war.
Bush contra the Art of War would make good reading after the war is done. Bush has made so many mistakes that the Art of War warns about counting the mistakes alone would be a chore never mind matching the mistakes to passages in the Art of War.
It is a condition of allowing CSPAN in Congress that the cameras must remain fixed. Congress doesn’t want public to know that no one is ever there.
do you mean pacify or intimidate or subjugate? seems to me like the net effect is the opposite of pacification.
A la Mike Gravel with the Pentagon Papers.
This stupid thing with the fist dab that has the wingnuts going crazy….. I seem to remember that was something that the Power Rangers did in their cartoons….. my own kids used to do it …. anyone one remember that?
The necons thought they were smarter than 3 thousand years of experience.
Just started downloading from Itunes I get lots of great music suggestions here!
Though not many were probably in attendance, and only us political junkies watch the House on C-Span – it was an incredible performance. Realistically, I know this will not get the attention or support it deserves, but at least it is now on the Congressional record.
from cq.com (jan 2007):
I wouldn’t suggest playing “Hanging from the Cross” for your Christian friends. LOL
Yet another Pelosi disappointment.
I’m off for a bicycle ride before it gets too hot.
you know attaturk, all of this is great however if the president acquiesces and sets a date for withdrawal I believe McCain will be the next president
does everyone remember rove saying “Iraq will not be an issue for the presidential race”?
this will play right into their hands
Have the NeoCons ever been right about anything ?
To be fair they are great at taking credit for stuff they never did like wars or making money they are media people and think tankers but they all seem to think that they are Generals and self made businessmen instead of bought and paid for propaganda types.
Morning all — in case anyone is wondering about coverage on the upcoming Senate Judiciary hearing, I just got off the phone with folks from C-Span. They aren’t planning on televising the hearing today. (Bummer for me — am planning on trying to liveblog and that means no time for potty breaks. Eeep.)
But the Senate committee website will be webcasting it — you can tune in here. They’ve moved the time up to 9:30 am ET, just FYI…
Will have a post up on this in a little bit, but I wanted to give folks a heads up.
thanks for covering this one christy! i’m looking forward to hearing from both fine and sands again.
My Sister gets mad if I just take the Lords name in vain but she is very into minority issues this could cause a Cognitive Dissonance or another case of she likes the beat but doesn’t pay attention to the lyrics.
Compartmentalization is a good self defense strategy provided that problems don’t get to big to ignore. Still the age is ending Pan is dead as it were I’m wondering whats next.
p.s. i don’t think this one is being covered by cspan either, but there should be a committee webstream feed:
Cheney, Kristol and the rest of the original PNAC people actually thought they could create a New World Order, a world controlled by the corporations, the US military its enforcement arm. A world economy controlled by a few very wealthy individuals. Control of the world’s oil reserves and markets forced open to US trade with no restrictions throughout the world. All of it based the the perceived notion that the US military was unbeatable. They ignored the fact that while the US military may very well be unbeatable in set piece engagements with conventional forces insurgencies have routinely either defeated conventional forces or forced them to withdraw, e. g., Viet Nam (twice, France and US), Algeria (France) and now Irak. Doesn’t seem to have worked out so well for them.
Me, too — the last hearing was extremely interesting. Am having to download a RealPlayer upgrade. It’s one of those mornings today, I’m afraid. *G*
That reminds me. The ACLU has a petition:
On the post:
I agree. 58 bases is not only abominable, but er. . . costly. I see the AFL-Cio has a fact sheet and fliers (pdf): tell John McCain: Working families need a break. Notmore Tax breaks for big oil.
Sounds like a great thing for a say a community center to have around, IMHO.
Yep — saw that as well and have some info. about it — looks like they only have one witness from State Dept. legal on the agenda for this afternoon.
Withdrawal from Iraq but that would be defeat! What would the 30%ers think? What would 100 years of war McCain say? The GOP would have to backpedal and spin like crazy to explain that one.
In theory it might help the GOP but Hilary ditched us to get the prowar vote when she refused to say that if she knew then what she knows now then she never would have voted for the war. The 30%ers didn’t exactly flock to her side. I don’t think our 70%ers are going to change sides that easily either.
Besides Bush likes to talk tough do you really think given his personality that he could withdrawal from Iraq?
Is anyone in congress still asking for Iraq to pay for reconstruction?
let us know if there is anything we can do to help. i will attempt to rip the audio.
I just called Kucinich’s office to thank him for his heroic action last night. It was wonderful! You could hear in the background that he has a tremendous phone bank operation going this morning and many lines rang while I was connected. They are taking names and addresses from everyone who calls today and asking us to be patient, because, as the young lady on the phone said, right now they are “trying to get everything together”. Line I called: (202) 225-5871.
I also called Pelosi’s Speaker’s Office and got immediately shunted into voice-mail Hell where I left a much less polite message to either start hearings immediately or step aside.
awesome,
will have to ring in as well!
Easy. If the neocons are doing it, it is victory. Our glorious occupation allowed a democracy to emerge that voted to take over its own security situation. We won.
Of course, the very same scenario, if carried out under President Obama’s watch, is surrender.
Hmm. According toAFL-CIO, Exxxon Mobil made $40 billion in profits last year so they don’t really need a tax break. And McCain received $723,777 in campaign contributions from you know what. It almost feels like the whole country is being Enronned. I just want to know which of these people sold their souls to the big şeytan.
Dialing now, thanks for the #
The list of who didn’t would be shorter to list.
Gotcha Black, is White, Peace is War, er slavery, er defeat er whatever we tell you it is!
Just how many rationales for this war have we had?
Christy’s got new thread goodiness upstairs!
A rich man has as much chance of going to heaven as a Camel has of going through the eye of a needle. JC
Any more subtle this? No wonder Cheney keeps to his bunker.
Confessions extracted by torture break the spirit. Look at all the South American dictatorships of the seventies.
But Bush has done a lousy job of it, like he did everything else. He could have easily tortured these people secretly, and he has done on others. So you are right, this just creates outrage around the world, esp. with Muslims.
Spot on, Elliott.
Looks like we better get busy tapping that North Dakota oilfield.
Oooops! It’s partly in Canada! Imagine that!
they will believe whatever the president tells them to believe, and this is pretty easy for the president to do;
“as I said in the past, when they stand up, we’ll stand down, and I also said we would only be there so long as they wanted us to be, now that they are standing up we can indeed set a date for withdrawal”
if the president does that mccain will claim it was the surge that facilitated this developement and he will be the next president
Your tax dollars at work. McCain might as well go straight to jail. That’s the card he’s drawn, at any rate.