“the Iraqi government has a vision of the agreement different from the one speculated by the U.S,” and he went on to insist that the Mailiki “vision” will “stress preservation of Iraq’s territorial, maritime and aerial sovereignty…”
While Maliki tries to head off opposition until he can manipulate faux approval of the SOFA, CTuttle of Main and Central points us to key information on just one of the claims both Mailiki and Crocker/Bush are making – that there will be no U.S. permanent bases:
NPR’s Diane Rehm asked NBC News Middle East correspondent Richard Engel about the report. Engel said that as part of “a face saving device,” the bases would technically be Iraqi and “U.S. troops would reside on them as tenants”:
ENGEL: That’s the question, is it permanent bases or is it not, and the details of this have not been published. The U.S. and Iraqi officials I’ve spoken to say they would not be U.S. permanent bases in Iraq, they would be Iraqi bases and that U.S. troops would reside on them as tenants and may even have to pay some sort of nominal rent, so there would be a face saving device.
Patrick Cockburn, writing in The Independent this week, provides a more complete look at what’s included in the draft agreement which the Bush Administration wants approved by the end of July:
The terms of the impending deal, details of which have been leaked to The Independent, are likely to have an explosive political effect in Iraq. Iraqi officials fear that the accord, under which US troops would occupy permanent bases, conduct military operations, arrest Iraqis and enjoy immunity from Iraqi law, will destabilise Iraq’s position in the Middle East and lay the basis for unending conflict in their country.
(snip)
America currently has 151,000 troops in Iraq and, even after projected withdrawals next month, troop levels will stand at more than 142,000 – 10 000 more than when the military "surge" began in January 2007. Under the terms of the new treaty, the Americans would retain the long-term use of more than 50 bases in Iraq. American negotiators are also demanding immunity from Iraqi law for US troops and contractors, and a free hand to carry out arrests and conduct military activities in Iraq without consulting the Baghdad government.
Cockburn followed that report the next day with word that not only is Ambassador "Um Um Um" Crocker insisting on an agreement that perpetuates US control of Iraq but that we are blackmailing the Iraqis to get it approved:
The US is holding hostage some $50bn (£25bn) of Iraq’s money in the Federal Reserve Bank of New York to pressure the Iraqi government into signing an agreement seen by many Iraqis as prolonging the US occupation indefinitely, according to information leaked to The Independent.
And today, Grand Ayatollah Mudaressi issued the following warning from Karbala:
Speaking to reporters and clerics in Karbala, Grand Ayatollah Mohammed Taqqi al-Mudaressi said “the proposed security agreement between Iraq and the U.S lacks the overall and in-depth vision of Iraq’s general affairs”.
The cleric expected “the agreement would fail if the details of the deal remained as they are in the current draft”, adding “ signing the agreement came while Iraq is deprived of sovereignty under chapter seven of (the Security Council charter). He branded the agreement as “ a sort of US blackmailing and a sword strangling Iraqis”.
“Infringing Iraq’s sovereignty would not be in the U.S interests as a superpower because the agreement humiliates people’s dignity, pushing them to uprise and to start a new cycle of violence”, he pointed out.
Al Sadr has made it clear that his movement will oppose the SOFA:
"After every Friday prayers, everyone must protest and demonstrate until the agreement is cancelled," he said in a statement sent to AFP on Wednesday.
He said his powerful movement planned to send delegations to neighbouring countries and to the West and to international bodies such as the United Nations, the Arab League and the European Ubnion to explain its position.
He said the Iraqi government should consult the people before entering into any deal with Washington.
Also speaking out in clear opposition is the Association of Muslim Scholars in Iraq who represent Sunni opposition to the occupation. Their leader Harith Al Dhari stated that the support for the agreement comes from those
whom:
the occupation has polished and presented to the world as the representatives of Iraq, but they represent no one but themselves, and that small group that is with them and with the occupation, pressing ever forward to carry out these agreements, to the extent that the ambassador Crocker goes to Najaf and boasts, announcing in his sly and scummy way, that it is the government of Iraq that is requesting the forming of this agreement. But their efforts are already exposed and widely understood, as a presentation of Iraq to the enemy on a plate of gold, just so that they can retain their positions and their privileges…
Even Bush’s friends in Saudi Arabia are protesting as seen in the Saudi establishmet Arabnews editorial on SOFA:
George W. Bush brought death and chaos to Iraq on the basis of lies. Now, as he staggers through the last months of his failed presidency, he is trying one more bit of trickery — forcing the Nuri Al-Maliki government to legitimize a long-term military occupation of Iraq in a treaty, which will make that sovereign country an American colony.
Here in the US, congressional leaders opposed a SOFA agreement with the demand that it be brought to the Senate for ratification as a treaty – an amendment to For H.R.5658, the FY09 National Defense Authorization Act from Congresswoman Lee which passed 234 to 183 states that :
no provision in any status of forces agreement (SOFA) negotiated between the United States and the Government of Iraq that obligates the United States to the defense of Iraq from internal or external threats shall have any legal effect unless the agreement is in the form of a treaty requiring the advice and consent of the Senate, or is specifically authorized by an Act of Congress.
While the passage of the Lee Amerdment 234-183 is good news, we need to insist that at minimum similar language in included in the final Defense Authorization which will begin debate this week. Given the kabuki we see with war funding over and over again, we need to remind our representatives that we are opposed to the terms of the SOFA as well as to the bypassing of Senate approval.
Meanwhile Herve Bar reporting for the AFP provides us with one more report of what a continuing occupation of Iraq by US forces as proposed in the SOFA looks like:
Iraqi teenager Abbas Khadum died in his father’s arms, one of 25 men who locals say were shot dead in a single day by US troops in a crackdown on Shia militiamen in east Baghdad.
His mother fought back tears while his father held a picture of the 19-year-old, his hair slicked back and dressed in a smart shirt buttoned up to his chin, as he gave his version of how US troops had killed his son.
(snip)
Khadum’s family live in the heart of the Al-Obeidi neighbourhood, where many followers of radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr are rumoured to have sought refuge after being driven out of nearby Sadr City.
Khadum’s family home, an anonymous rectangular building with an iron gate, is around a dozen metres from a wide main road, part-hidden by a large concrete wall erected in mid May by US forces to disrupt militia activities.
(snip)
“In the middle of the night, the Americans positioned themselves on a roof of a nearby building site which overlooks the wall,” he said, his bespectacled face framed in a traditional red keffiyeh scarf.
“About 11 am, my son was due to go to university with his friends. With all the shooting, he told them not to come and meet him at the house, but to wait a few streets away.
“He left and then a few minutes later, I was called and told he had been wounded. I raced to him. He had been shot in the back, at shoulder level. He was still breathing. He died in my arms as we took him to hospital,” he said.
No wonder Friday’s statements about the SOFA negotiations by Abdellatif Rayan, “a media advisor for the U.S. forces in Iraq,” that “the U.S. forces have always been aiming at supporting the Iraqi government and people” sound so very hollow.
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Zed-Fitz!
SIUN!
Siun, I’m so grateful for this post – and for keeping the spotlight on the real plan behind Bush/Cheney’s invasion: endless occupation.
Which, of course, means endless death for the people or Irak – as wel las for the Americans sent to kill and die there.
Bring them home now!
Once again Bushco fucked up. My guess is that about the time these bases are finished we will be handed them over to the Iraqis…
Perhaps I’m guilty of over-optimism, but I sure liked Helena Cobban’s post today, suggesting that SOFA is failing
Uh-huh. Not even BushCo’s holding $50 billion of Iraqi money hostage in New York is making them back down.
I’m reminded of the lovely state-of-the-art submarine bases that we built in Cam Ranh Bay in Vietnam — bases that ten years after they were finished were being used by Soviet subs.
To get an idea of one of the Sadrsit demos we have put up some photos on Flickr some quotes from Sadrist preachers are included:
Quotes from Sattar al-Battat’s sermon. 20080606
During the protests in Sadr city banners and signs saying
and
Erdla
Hi everyone, Siun had a lot of nasty weather and some other things on her calender today. So she asked me to let you know she might not be able to make it tonight.
Exactly, Laura. Thing is, the Iraqis hold better cards than we do. The price of oil is helping them withstand Bush’s attempts to use the $50 billion of their money he’s holding captive as a tool to force them to comply with SOFA.
Hello, ES!
Hello Erdla. The pix you folks have been uploading have been so galvanizing/inspiring for me.
(Best to you, yours and the entire GG family)
I’m very anxious to see if Bush gets his agreement- and what the response is both here and there if he does.
Oh, totally!!
The “rent” for the bases is very pale lipstick on a very little pig in this instance. The obvious blackmail tells the whole world what Bush is about, and the free ride for lawbreakers in Iraq is just what Bush would love to have here in the US. So far he’s gotten away with it all. I hope like he11 that the Iraqis or the congress or ANYBODY can stop the signing of this so-called agreement. The fact that the Saudis are against it might have some effect, but I doubt it. Bush will ruin absolutely every piece of good will throughout the world before he goes.
What is his major malfunction?
Thank you, Erdla. Working link to Erdlas photos here.
PW!
Today on Inside Iraq, an Iraqi writer comments on the ways that different political groups are talking about re-organizing, based on SOFA. I would love to see things improve there as this administration hoists itself on its own greed-driven petard.
Best sign to me.. is the fact similarly egregious oil agreements have yet to pass in iraq. (That I know of, anyway)
erdla, thank you for your work and that news. I hope the people of Irak reject the SOFA.
Clusterfuck is becoming a lamer Duck every day..
Iraqis now must be thinking about what their options are if they wait until after the election to do anything- a little foot draggin music please!
Does Malaki need US troops to stay in power? How big a factor is the money Clusterfuck is hangin out there? Do Iraqis figure that they’ll get the money in the end ANYWAY?
What would be the consequence of going past the UN deadline WITHOUT a status of forces agreement?
Lots of interesting questions.
If I say so myself this weekend’s team did a particularly good job. The reports that Maliki was discussing water with the Iranians coupled with the report about the demo in Jasan about the al-Galal river really brought home to me about the disaster the drought is going to be.
Maybe I’m reading into this more than I should
but this could have been written by one of the DFH bloggers. Instead, it’s from an official Saudi news source, from the country run by his supposed pals. I don’t imagine much news get printed there without official sanction. It looks as if Junya has lost even that little remaining shred of legitimacy in the world.
So we want 50 more Guantanamos, 50 more bases that are non under US laws because we don’t own the turf under them???
Erdla, in case you’re stepping in and out, has the reduction in food allowances gone into effect yet? How are people doing with this, if so?
Yes. There’s a saying in Irak now that the only people who want the Americans to stay are the politicians who will be hung by angry mobs when they leave.
Yes Laura it’s being brought in now. Which means that Red Crescent and other humanitarians organsiations are trying to fill the gap.
I think most of the bases are already there. The link confirms 21 bases.
Donations to the International Red Cross, Red Crescent Societies can be made here (you can designate Iraq as the donee)
Then doesn’t he HAVE to agree to the Status of Forces Agreement?
Thank you. Hard to fill an ever-widening gap, with foodstuffs being cut, and the drought hampering farming.
No offense Gorilla, but the past tense of hang, as in an execution is hanged, not hung. A small corner of the English language but maybe it will get a lot more use in the future.
Or fly like the Shah of Iran.
Are you thinking of the Hague, or of Guantanamo?
(and folks, if you haven’t caught bmaz’s article at Emptywheel yesterday, please check it out.)
And, with respect to Guantanamo and other prisons and abuses, be prepared for five days of big news from McClatchy, starting next Sunday (online and in the papers).
It’s a question of how and when they will be hanged and by whom. The Iranians are not very pleased with Dawa or SIIC right now either. (And the Grand Ayatollahs are not especially happy.)
Personally, I don’t think Maliki is quite the puppet he’s often portrayed as being. Given that people in his own coalition (and even his own party) have been making anti-SOFA statements, I think much of this is an orchestrated effort to strengthen his hand in the negotiations… or perhaps more precisely, the effort to punt the negotiations until a new U.S. administration is in place.
Money is at the root of all evil for sure.
Edwards wanted any remaining U.S. security troops after “withdrawal” to be kept in Kuwait, to show that the U.S. occupation was truly over.
Will Congress be mensch-like NOW?
NEED A BIGGER WORD THAN “HUBRIS.”
Human justice is all about precedent so I have to go with the Hague. To quote the Wicked Witch of the West, “These things have to be done delicately”.
And your evidence to back up your opinion is??? There’s a big difference between making statements and engaging in meaningful activity. The fact is that on every single occasion they’ve caved to American demands.
I’m just thinkin out loud here, but if my future required the US to be in the country, and if I knew that the damned thing was going to be very unpopular, then I would be inclined to make it look as if I had negotiated tough with Bush and gotten rid of the really nasty provisions- and then sell the remaining agreement as good for Iraq.
From the Patrick Cockburn piece:
Thank you Siun, wherever you are.
I read the above quote, and as full as it is of self-serving drivel, not very well hidden is the portion about immunity from Iraqi law US Military personal would enjoy.
That would seem to me to be nothing short of a poison pill clause, and such a transparent ploy that I’m left wondering if they are throwing it and other provisions in as bait for a concession elsewhere (unlikely), or are hoping to blow the whole deal up in favor of something much more radical.
And thanks to Erdla.
so will bushco just go ahead and sign the agreement on behalf of the iraqis?
It’s shameful that our American Congress relies on the Iraki people to reject the Security Convention. Our representatives should be be standing up to the corrupt Administration. No agreement should be made that bypasses our Senate.
Imagine allowing the Bush administration to negotiate on behalf of the American people, after all the lies and horrors they have committed in our name!
I am writing to my Congresswoman on this right now.
If Bush just signs the damned thing, I wonder what congress can do?
Bush relies on the fact that the resolution of any constitutional issues would likely happen years from now if at all.
It does sound like a good idea to pressure Congress right now. House AND Senate? An issue for Barack?
Even beyond hubris, I believe we will need to prepare for a HUGE battle once we win the election: our elected officials CANNOT be allowed to hold investments in arms or other companies engaged in services to the military. Such a horrible conflict of interest must be forbidden. (And there are a lot of people making money on this now, on both sides of the aisle….DiFi is only one of many)
Well said, Teddy.
… The fact is that on every single occasion they’ve caved to American demands.
IIRC, Maliki’s presence in office itself was a refusal to give into American wishes. (The Bushites wanted Abdul-Mahdi.)
And the Iraqi governing coalition, or what’s left of it, hasn’t given into American demands on an oil law, or (unless it’s changed recently, and it may have) embracing the various “Awakening” movements.
Yes, military industrical complex …. military corporate capitalism joins with now global corporate capitalism … and pscyopathological exploitation for the common good of the entire planet.
This is one helluva monster to begin to dismantle. As it grows exponentially each second.
‘the love of money is the root of all evils”
Helena Cobban has an interesting post on how the current events in Iraq, the SOFA negotiations and the new cross-sectarian party al Ja’fari has put together.There could be real potential for the democrats in getting behind the Ja’fari party both as a political alternative (for Obama) to the McCain/Bush strategy, and more importantly as the genesis of a coherent exit strategy. First off, the new alliance represents the first cross sectarian alliance to be formally initiated post- invasion. Saleh al-Mutlaq of the Dialogue Party has always been a rational nationalist voice from the Sunni perspective, as has been the Fadhila from the Shiite perspective. Both these parties have been suspicious of both the occupation and Iranian influence within the Iraqi government, while at the same time they both have been more moderate than their sectarian counterparts ie the Accord Front and the MahdiJAM in their tactics. It seems quite plausible for the democrats to seize upon the opportunity to support this alliance as a form of indigenously inspired nationalism and as the true face reconciliation. Which as it so happens, also offers a real foil against Iranian incursion into Iraqi affairs. And the perfect scenario for the U.S. to slip quietly out the back door – after Obama winning the election, that is.
Here we go:
I like to address her as “Congresswoman” to remind her there are some of us here who count on her to represent us, regardless of her exciting new position as Speaker.
thanks….
Leaving early tonight. Thank you Erdla, for being around this evening. Thanks ES, for holding down the fort!
TOLL FREE SWITCHBOARD FOR LEAVING MESSAGES FOR EITHER CONGRESSPERSONS OR SENATORS:
800-828-0498
Aloha, Siun! I just posted about much of this yesterday…! ;-)
aren’t they floating the idea that iraqi fall elections will be delayed after US general? seems like that reduces pressure on Maliki at this point?
Take care, Laura. As always, thanks for the Red Crescent reminder.
Btw, I’m busy on a Gitmo post, since ya asked so nicely…! ;-)
Aaw, I just missed ya! Aloha, Laura!
Good night, Laura – sleep well!
What Khalilzad actually said was that:
President George W Bush “doesn’t want, doesn’t support, doesn’t accept”
al-Jaafari as Prime Minister of the green zone puppet government. They made vague noises about Mahdi but it was clear from the outset that he wouldn’t get in as he’s universally hated.
If you learn Arabic and start reading our sermon reports you’ll see it’s the grand Ayatollahs who haven’t given in.
The awakening movements are another matter. The figures should give you some idea:
# awakenening councils as political party (9)
# Awakening – threats and intimidation by (3)
# Awakening Councils (74)
# Awakening councils negotiation with Americans (1)
# Awakening fighters integration (1)
and then:
# Fighting between “awakening” and Americans (1)
# Fighting between green forces (3)
# Fighting between gzg forces and “Awakening” (6)
Facts Swopa ,facts are what are important – facts as reported by Irakis for Iraki not the ½ assed crap that American journalists produce for their editorial boards.
Like the fact that a lot of the awakening councils haven’t been paid. Or the fact that the only places they’ve worked are in al-Anbar and those parts of Baghdad largely inhabited by people from al-Anbar.
Erdla, Juan Cole posted this, this morning…
Yes, the bases are built under the fig leaf of the U.N. Nominally, theoretically, the MCA constraints on torture, and so for apply. However, if the bases are put under Iraqi jurisdiction, and we rent the land from them, the same situation will exist as it does in Guantanamo, with the American judicial system not applicable, and the military commissions set up for show trials only, basically no laws applicable.
Take care Laura.
But the point then is that the government is listening to the grand Ayatollahs… and, as a result, not caving in to U.S. demands.
Regarding the ousting of Jaafari, I think it’s safe to say that the U.S. didn’t demand the removal of the top member of the Dawa party just to give the PM position to the #2 member of Dawa (who then proceeded to hold to the same positions that made Jaafari unpopular with the Bushites).
Swopa, Maliki is Cheney’s stooge, through and through… When Darth says ‘jump’, Nuri asks ‘how high’… Honestly, take a gander at many of my posts… Numerous sources attest to it…!
Here’s some samples…
so,
it’s the United States of Ameriraq acc. to the fooooooolz.
You’re making the typical American/Western mistake of seeing those parties as blocs. They’re not they’re coalitions who are in turn in coalition with other coalitionss.
Maliki is trying desperately to cave in as are the Kurds and the al-Hakims the resistance is coming from:
The Sadrists.
Fadhila.
The Ayatollahs.
The unions.
The AMSI and the bloc of parties generally referred to as “Sunni”
You should check Jafari’s record – he didn’t cave, he stalled and stalled and stalled, he also put up a spirited resistance to the American invaders increasing the tempo of their various military activities which is why they got rid of him.
W is gonna have to fucking focus on what he really wants: SOFA or telecom plus Cheney immunity. Because I don’t think he’ll get both from Congress. Not in an election year.
Yes Angie they want the same situation that they had in Iran before the Shah fell.
We shouldn’t forget the private militia, who should be the first to leave.. even though we don’t know their numbers.
Another point.. If Bushco has the audacity to ask for exemptions from Iraqi law.. aren’t they admitting they don’t have it now?
Congress should outlaw pardons signed by auto pen tomorrow!
Credible sources put the number of private contractors at an equal, if not higher, number as those in the Armed Forces, however, not all them bear arms…!
The “Coalition” has been operating under the approval of the UN- but that will expire at the end of the year, so if we are to continue there with the normal status of forces agreements in place, they must be negotiated and signed soon.
Ah, Eureka – the Chimpster will have to spend the whole month of December and most of January at his desk signing the enormous stack of pardons without the AutoPen!
Ding. But, also remember, there is no declared war. There is no declared war. There is no declared war….
What I’m hoping, nay praying, for is they’ll punt it, i.e. ask the UN for another extension, until elections are over, both here in the States and in Iraq, considering both election cycles are happening in November…!
How in heavens name are the American people supposed to get some influence over this horrible situation, other than repeatedly write/fax/call our representatives? Bush is forcing us into the streets with pitchforks and torches. I hate George Bush. If I could raise Nixon from the grave and put him in the seat of power, I’d do it – and I hated Nixon more than anything. I hope the world can stall until after the elections, when Obama will restore sanity and the constitution. God help us.
Autopen, because the frikkin’ signer has left the venue.
I’m frikkin’ furious….with these people…Argggggghhhh…..Grrr..
We need to stop them.
There were those of us in the anti-war movement that were saying that before the invasion started. Why else go to all that trouble unless we were going to install some puppet who would be the head of a de facto colony of the US? Control the resources of Irak just as we controlled the resources of Iran until the Shah was overthrown, which caught our illustrious CIA totally by surprise.
Negate their unlawful treaty….Now.
Where the fork are you Congress!!!
Stop it now!!!
I’m well aware that this was Jafari’s record — thus far, it seems to be Maliki’s record as well. Indeed, as I noted in this post a week ago, Maliki’s allies are among those saying SOFA should be stalled until after the U.S. elections. Which is exactly the point I was making.
Oh, my…I for one will wait to see what W’s election results are. Then, I’ll refucking react!!!!!!!!
“Money is at the root of all evil for sure.”
Well, to be pedantic, but I agree with the Biblical Gospels that it is the love of money that is the root of all evil.
Bob in HI
Hey, I am ready.
hope you will use your good offices to ensure that any agreement the Bush Administration negotiates with Iraq takes the form of a treaty that must be approved by the United States Senate.
How in the world can, or is, the administration pitching this thing as anything other than a treaty?
Is Yoo involved? Is this supposedly an agreement between George W. Bush and the whole of Irak? GWB and his team of thugs can call it whatever they want to call it, but it’s a treaty, dammit.
Gotta go through Congress.
We are not in forking Kansas anymore….fer Chrissakes….
Since when does the President have the authority to make unilateral treaties with sovereign countries without the consent of Congress? Have to go reread the Constitution I guess.
It isn’t clear that congress can stop it. The executive branch routinely signs these status of forces agreements without the consent of congress.
Honestly, that can be chalked up to a belated attempt to burnish their image to the Iraqi populace… Maliki needs our armed forces to keep him in office…
I was with you in that belief before the war, but the Bushites were caught off guard not only by the resistance (which kept them from being able to fully impose their will militarily) but by the ability of the Shiite ayatollahs to seize the political initiative and install their own government rather than an unalloyed puppet like Allawi. That has kicked off a lengthy wrestling match for control between the Bushites and the Shiite clerical hierarchy, the culmination of which we’re seeing now.
Where the fork are you Congress!!!
I’m of the opinion that, as this agreement most certainly constitutes a treaty, it is of no legal value, and is per se invalid if it by-passes Congress.
The next president would be in no way obligated to even acknowledge its existence, and could proceed from there. YMMV.
The SOFA being pressed by the Bush administration faces legal problems unless everyone rolls over. The planned bluff is intended to make everyone believe that the agreement would be binding.
The lies inherent in the Bush position about his base agreement are hard to count. Bases rarely “belong” to an occupying power; they are often occupied under longterm leases. And according to Bush’s interpretation, there’s no such thing as a “permanent” base anywhere, not South Korea or Germany or Okinawa, so certainly not in the territory formerly known as Irarq.
The issue is less what US authorities – and increasingly, mercenaries under contract with an arm of the US Government – can do on those bases. It is what can they do off of them. That’s where Bush’s lies about the “routineness” of this agreement are loudest. This is not a standard Status of Forces Agreement. It is not at all routine for foreign forces to have the, “I can do what I want and you can’t touch me” terms Bush proposes here. It’s terms resemble the long-outmoded and long-despised terms imposed by Western imperialist invaders in 19th century China and India.
Bush’s agreement would leave little sovereignty in Iraqi hands. But then, that’s the idea. It would impose incalculable costs on the US and its taxpayers, but so have his wars to date and he hasn’t paid dime one on the expenses he’s incurred for them. He’s just maxed out the taxpayers’ credit cards. Paying them? That’s a problem for adults.
A little OT but here’s how I see this legality stuff play out. Jan 18, 2009 10AM, George Bush pardons Dick Cheney. That same afternoon Bush resigns. Jan 19, 2009, hastily sworn in President Cheney calls for calm and promptly pardons everybody else. Jan 20, 2009 President Obama sworn in.
The administration thinks it’s bad now, wait until this kinda crap goes down. The Irakis may well do to the Green Zone what Rome did to Carthage.
Don’t forget to include the signing statements (even the secret ones). ;)
yep.
We’ve hit over $4 per gallon…helltheforkhello!!!
Why has this Administration not been impeached for the hundreds of things that they have done to destroy America????
Why?
What is wrong with this country???? Repeat, Repeat, Repeat…makes no frikkin’ difference, because the people, like SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE PELOSI…is a frikkin’ chickenshit, traitor. That is why. How much more evidence does she need? Impeach her Now. Out. Bushco outright lied us into war…no problem…Bushco outed the name of a “covert” agent working on WMD proliferation…Nada….People died in your name Bush and in your name Pelosi.
SPIT!! Straight to hell in a handbag with all of you. SPIT.
SD, here’s a good article…
agreed
The responsibility for the abuse of “signing statements” I place at the feet of Congress, a Rethug led Congress I might add. This is just one more thing to get straightened out with a new Congress and new President.
unclaimed teddy zed upstairs
hello, Suzanne
Fine. Then Bushco wins…the world implodes. We apparently have zero checks and balances…no laws of any meaning…
We are in a frikkin’ state of anarchy, because not one trained law person has come up with a way to stop these people. What the F is that?
We are supposed to “wait” until someone comes up with a legal way to stop them?? The first premise to recognize is that they do…not…recognize..the…laws…as written..of the United States of America.
So….come up with a frikkin’ solution…brainpeople?????
Ooh, a Teddy zed…! ;-)
That’s been his shtick since day one. I’m the Decider.
Now let’s see:
1. Has gone along with the various “surges”
2. Has introduced the “oil law” and is still trying to get it passed.
3. Has abolished the Sunni Endowment.
4. Has done his best to abolish the corruption commission (set up by Jafari btw)
To name but four. This is your definition of stalling??? About those allies:
Mahmoud Othman, an independent Kurdish lawmaker.
Not in fact allied to Dawa. Or to the main Kurdish blocs either.
Ali Adeeb is far closer to the Hawza than to Dawa and is one of the liasons.
No way that congress can keep the prez from writing signing statements- the issue comes in determining whether they have any force- and that will be for a court to decide I suppose.
We need to re-read Martin Luther King 101 and peacefully take to the streets. It’s the oldest and most effective form of human discontent.
Just wait until y’all wake up and find out that McCain is president….just wait…..Just wait…oh happy day…d’oh…what happened??? OMG…
We’d better find out how to stop this now. Now.
I was talking about the abuse of them, not making them go away.
Uh…er…two points:
1) I live in SF, and though everyone I know depsises Pelosi, the Constitution provides neither for her recall nor her impeachment by constituents. Beats the fuck out of me why anyone votes for her.
2) If this is how you propose to call people to your side, I wouldn’t bother renting a sound system for the rally. Talking to a handful of people doesn’t usually require amplification.
Do keep in touch about those who run towards this message: my dom friends here in SF tell me good masochists are hard to find…
/s
We have to do something. They are gonna make a final pass.
When you say “abuse”, what were you thinking? Ignoring the clear intent of a law and refusing to enforce it?
My 110 is in response to Swopa @ 84.
Yep.
Pelosi is up for election every two years- if the people wanted her out she’d be out right?
“They ‘are’ the operating in the clear ‘abuse of the law”
They are the criminals…Not us. Not those who challenge them.
They are criminals and need to be brought to justice.
The only way for anything to happen with the signing statements is if someone can figure out a way to sue POTUS. But that would mean you would have to actually know what the signing statement actually said and since a ton of them are classified…
Then you have to get past Mukasey who seems to think his job is to NOT do anything at all. Next you have to get the government to agree to BE sued. Then you have to have some court certify that you actually have standing to even bring the case. Then…I don’t know what comes next but it is entirely a forking mess.
Jimmy Carter recently read a signing statement he attached to a bill. It actually was just an explanation in non-legalese of the contents. That’s what they are supposed to be for.
It would be very difficult because the SCOTUS would wind up hearing the case – and it is stacked in favor of Bush right now. Which is probably the main reason no one has even tried. We’ve lost before we even start.
I think it’s time for the pitchforks.
I would imagine that until 2006 Pelosi was your basic good little Congressperson who brought a little pork home to the constituents and does the normal Congressperson stuff. Since becoming Speaker, however, she has been placed in a position of power and what she does is now national news vice local news. We’ll just have to wait and see what happens in Nov I guess.
That is pretty much the Catch 22 about our situation.
Don’t forget the torches. Gotta have torches.
Sadly rw, the SF Dem establishment seems likely to stand with her for evah – and SF is an overwhelmingly Dem city.
I wish Sheehan had challenged Pelosi for the D primary (so long as Sheehan was going to run).
Actualy, I really wish Matt Gonzales or Supervisor Ammiano (?sp) had challenged Pelosi in the primary…and that we had the sort of ranked-choice voting that would bring more progressive Dems into voting against a tool of Power like no-table Nancy.
Fuck – I wish we had proportional represenation.
And a pony.
If things go a certain way, Nancy Pelosi will go down in history forever, as the woman who sold out democracy for the United States of America.
Mission F’ing Accomplished.
She is a blight on freedom.
Absolutely. Torches for all!
Better buy the oil to soak them in now while it’s still sort of affordable
:-)
(Alternatively ask any Canadian you know about letting you have some of their pitch – it blazes quite nicely once you get it lit.)
Make that a mountain bred Appaloosa pony. You ain’t lived until you’ve ridden an Appy.
This is all why W smirks….smirks…smirks….and Karl is confident….
I hate being raped by my government.
The Agreement could be set aside in several ways. Here’s two. Pres. Obama and his Iraqi counterpart could agree to it. Simple, especially if Bush does as promised and refuses to submit the agreement to the Senate for ratification. Two, the Iraqis could easily argue that the agreement was coerced and that, therefore, there was never an agreement. That would require a post-Bush administration that wasn’t willing to take a figurative two-by-four to the Iraqi government to persuade them not to. Bush is willing to hold hostage over $50 billion of Iraqi funds held in US institutions. What else is he doing? We all know, CheneyBush don’t do diplomacy.
All I know is that we HAVE to get Obama elected.
He said in his first 100 days that he would ‘get with his AG and go over every single signing statement, legal opinion and law that was put in during Bushco and everything he (the constitutional legal scholar) felt was unconstitutional would be gotten rid of.
“crosses fingers and toes and prays to all the gods in the Universe”
We’ve got a couple of Canadians here at the Lake. I’ll have to hit ‘em up for a couple tons. *g*
Average Joe doesn’t know and doesn’t care.
We are screwed.
So, who audits the NY Fed?
Work tomorrow. Colour me gone.
Be good to yourselves, and all other living things.
Namaste
Viral email.
Those other smear things go around and around and around. We need to get someone who can write this stuff up to make it sound like the end of the world (it really is!) and get started…
THANK YOU, CT!!
“I’m looking forward to going over there and helping to keep the sons and daughters of America safe,” a lieutenant in a young relative of mine’s brigade is quoted in a local newspaper as saying; they’re getting ready for desert training before going over to Iraq in the fall. That simplistic viewpoint is the one that Bush would like the troops to maintain while he makes an uncertain future for them.
And on that cheerful thought I’ll leave you as
thehordemy children will soon require feeding.PS: That nice Mr. Chavez might let you have some oil for torches as well. You could write to him:
c/o the Embassy of Venezuela
1099 30th St., N.W.,
Washington D.C. 20007
USA
Just a thought……
sleep well, sd!
*poof*
thannk you for joining us and for your work.
be well.
The problem is that people have been programmed to think that it “is” the end of the world.
It isn’t.
The peak oil thing is probably myth made up by the oil companies to push for more drilling and more refineries…
We are the pawns.
Google “Gull Island” for oil..just for starters and “Bakken” in ND.
Doesn’t mean we don’t have to take drastic means to work on Global Warming…we definitely do…now…that is actually a completely separate problem…but don’t buy the BS about the oil bubble crap that is stangling us before we even attempt to do something about global warming.
Ding F’ing Dong.
My point being…don’t believe the lies they tell you, and don’t believe the lies you tell yourself about what they are telling you.
Fuggadabout Nancy Purselosi.
Remember the Iraqis.
And the Afghans.
Bless you, GG and Siun.