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There is just no way Bill Clinton, a prominent public figure, should assume that anything he says to someone standing there with a microphone in this day and age is not going to be online two minutes later. If he wants something to be confidential, he has to ascertain who he's talking to and ask for that. The onus is on him not to run his mouth in public, and I can't really fathom that anyone would argue otherwise.
In the absence of an explicit agreement for confidentiality requested by a subject and granted by a journalist, everything is (or should be) "on the record." I'm reminded of Tim Russert's jaw-dropping testimony at the Libby trial when he announced that he assumed everything was off the record unless his sources told him it was okay to go with something.
That isn't investigative journalism, that's stenography.
This whole pearl-clutching business about how it's "making it harder for journalists to do their jobs" is nonsense. The thing that's making it harder for journalists is the fact that people like Mayhill Fowler will report what they won't, and people don't trust them any more as a result. How has this ordinary woman gotten two big scoops in this race, just by reporting what she heard? It's not like she was the only one there.
That's what they should be asking themselves.
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((((((JANE))))))
Followed by a good morning and a Jus cogens!
hiya jane. Hi y’all.
What did bill Clinton say?
(((Lady Jane)))
Good morning, all.
Cassie, it’s so nice to see a young revolutionary here.
Bill was complaining about a Vanity Fair article that said he was messing around again.
How was the wedding?
Take a listen.
Says the Vanity Fair reporter is “slimy”, “dishonest”, and a “scumbag”.
Lindsey Graham hair looks like a 5 year did his hair….
thanx. No revolution yet though.
wedding was good. Lotsa fun.
So Bill is blaming the Press why? The Vanity fair article was mean it might be true but I wouldn’t back away from yelling about something like that.
However it is Bill’s life and if he is embarrassed about what he said in confidence, to a complete stranger, in a crowd of people, with no expectation of privacy well then he should watch what he says Bill knows that the GOP and Fox both would send people to trap him.
But I am more concerned with MSM tools saying this hurts them doing their jobs.
I’ll respect the MSM Press more when Judy Miller is forced to give back her pulitzer.
The NYT is having a session tomorrow where you can ask a reader’s representative your opnion of unnamed sources. I sent them a link to the piece I wrote for the L.A. Weekly in 2004 in which I declared they should not be permitted under any circumstances.
can’t hear from the phone. Will try when I get back to a real computer.
You’re living it and actively engaging in it. Revolution is defined as activity with a goal of making fundamental change to the current socioeconomic situation. We are all revolutionaries here but we label ourselves differently because most equate revolution with violence. A revolutionary is the opposite of a reactionary. Obama is a revolutionary while McBu’ush is a reactionary.
Here’s some work from a citizen pundit in Phoenix:
http://freewayblogger.blogspot.....nator.html
He’s been doing this quite a bit lately - enough to where it’s possible he’s now the most widely-read pundit in the city (ah, the magic of traffic…)
We need more like him.
oldie but goodie: amy goodman interviews bill clinton on election day 2000
Fowler’s success points out the basic flaw behind the idea that journalists seeking news must cuddle up to and be wined and dined by their sources. That’s not journalism, that’s star-bleeping.
I thought that a direct quote on tape without the use of trick or leading questions was a Primary Source. Which is a good thing right. What are the rules for using off the record sources I think Pumpkinhead Timmy is wrong about everything being off the record unless the source says its ok.
Every time someone tries to show a big spotlight on the traditional media… from Scotties criticism, Elisabeth Edwards taking about how uneven the media time to HRC vast right wing conspiracy …
It is deny, not report it, say “Who US?” and just belittle them…..
“First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win.”…. we must in the fight you stage…..
Not if Timmeh is your priest, then it is OK.
Otherwise it is sick and wrong.
bill clinton to amy goodman (from interview link above):
Too bad Amy couldn’t say, “Kiss my ass, Bubba.” The only reason she couldn’t say it was cuz she’ got too much class.
timmeh is old and corrupt. You could learn from “wrong”!
Hi scarlet p.
Got nabbed on my first parkway posting, but got off with a warning.
Note to self: don’t be cheap, bungies not string. keep it up bro and kudos to McSlog and all for their efforts. Peace,
bluejeansntshirt
What are the rules if any of Journalistic ethics and reporting a story Lou Dobbs is still on the air after saying immigrants were spreading Leprosy, Judy Miller still has her Pulitizer, Friedman keeps talking about another 6 months in Iraq, lying, stenography without another confirming source, and just being wrong over and over again.
Where is the accountability?
I am not a professional journalist, so I don’t know how much weight the Code of Ethics of the Society of Professional Journalists has. While it nowhere says that journalists have an obligation to identify themselves as such, it does say the following:
http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp
It is not clear to me whether failing to identify oneself as a journalist when having a discussion with a public figure in a public venue could be considered “surreptitious”.
Anybody know if this code has any weight at all in the profession? I just found it on the Web, so for all I know it is just some wackaloon bullshit.
oh my word! he must finally have gotten the message that she didn’t grab the title after all. keep him outta the bigwhitehouse. he might steal all the “O”s.
Bill, fgs, GROW UP! You can handle it. Watch Hillary. You’re one of the fans now. NOT the star. Remember?!
suggest he go to his room and sulk outta sight until he can behave like a man.
lol, sounds like bill has been enveloped by the bush bubble.
i don’t think what Mayhill Fowler is doing is investigative journalism either… more closely related to infotainment.
really - the most important question to ask bill clinton is what he thought of that vanity fair article? i call bullshit on that and recommend giving a listen to amy goodman’s interview of bill clinton from 2000. that’s the real thing.
Been to jail for justice?
and that’s from seven and a half years ago!
guess what y’all! I think grandma is hooked on the lake!!!!
be that as it may… perchance the gentleman should no longer strut around crowing in public et lib.
hint: hush billy. just hush. regular people don’t tell stuff they don’t want other people to hear.
gentleman. . .sheeeeeeet
yep. imo, amy goodman is the best.
The Code is given out to all working journalists along with a decoder ring and instructions on how to perform the secret handshake. The Code has been especially effective during the Bush Administration because it gave journalists the leeway they needed to totally ignore that this has been the worst President and Presidency in our history.
Got the little family together to watch 3 little pigs vide just now. loved it.
funny u should say that, Dragon. I was just sitting here smiling at the thought of Cassie being representative of the “wired generation”. I think Obama will inspire a lot more, so pretty soon she’ll have lotsa company.
Hi Cassie. You DO make me smile. You’re a very special gal. I hope you’re doing well these days. Been awhile since we had a chance to say “Hi!” *waves*
Got nabbed?!?!
What law were you accused of breaking? I think people have successfully beaten charges for “freewayblogging”…
(if I’m wrong, you might not want to tell me, it could cause Mrs. Gumby to restrict my weekend activities)
Roger that.
Have to agree with Raven, as well. Bubba wouldn’t make a pimple on a gentelman’s ass.
Hi SD,
Great song, thanks. I’ve seen some of your pics (demonstrating) from a while back. Hope to meet someday, hopefully not in the pokey. ;-)
that Bill doesn’t gt that anthing he says in public is essentially on the record and will be shared over the internet shows how much he’s stuck in the last century.
there is no expectation of anonymity anymore. this is a big change and will take time for us to understand all the implications thereof … Rodney King, Bill Clinton, and Eliot Spitzer all illustrate different aspects of that.
thanks adie
lolz!
Why is Bill worried about people knowing he does not like the Vanity Fair article? Why blame the press on this one he gave a direct quote. The Vanity Fair article on the other hand used all off the record sources.
That’s some great ink you got in the Times, Jane.
Poor Widdle Jonathan Alter. Widing in the Waaahhhmbulance, so enverating has his “job” become. Cry me a tsunami, bro’.
welllll, compare the scoundrel with ANY pugnican. Go ahead.
I rest my case.
just ticklin’ yer nose, Raven. Hope you’re doing well. Gawd, I grew up in one-a those old houses with no insulation. Did you say u have heat pump? Sure hope so. We didn’t, and it was awful summer AND winter…
just checked in w/ my sweetie, former journalist by training and profession, who was a member of spj. she said “of course you have to tell people you’re a journalist”. fwiw …
politics of personality?
The officer said I could be summonsed for posting signs on city property.
Heh, a summons. Ignored them before.
grandma said I should ask if any of the front pagers here are trained journalists.
so-o-o, when did the current crop of faux-journalists ever notice there are rules to follow? did i miss something?
Oh yea, we’re all modern. When we bought it 9 years ago be gutted it, new hvac, wiring, insulated ceiling. . .have to keep the wofffers comfy!
Gotta go hang up da laundry. brb
besides the secret decoder ring, secret handshake, etc…. what exactly is a journalist? is there actually such a thing, or is journalism something people do not something they are? or am i hopelessly confused as usual?
serious question.
Here it is…
Sort of legal, I thought I had seen it somewhere. I think where I live, the sign is not to be visible from the interstate.
Definitely stick with the bungee’s, fast, efficient. Thanks to trade conditions, you can get a pack of 2-4 for a dollar at the dollar store. Good flags too, only a dollar. If you have an American flag on yer sign, it’s damn near UNPATRIOTIC for someone to take it down… …at least that’s what I hope they will think.
“there is no expectation of anonymity anymore”
_______
That’s what Bu’ush’s Deputry Director of National Intelligence said publicly last fall. That Americans were gonna have to “re-think their notions of privacy.”
What he meant, of course, was that we would now just have to learn to live with government and their crony corporate surrogates spying on every aspect of our formerly private lives absent any restraint or oversight, in this Anthropoweenie Era of Perpetual Code Brown.
Before we go completely off on the MSM, I would note that the blogosphere and fdl are not free from bias. On June 3 when Obama wrapped up the nomination there was no thread congratulating him on his victory or exploring its historical ramifications. The next day on June 4 there was only one post (by scarecrow) which briefly described both Clinton’s and Obama’s runs as historic. By contrast, yesterday when Clinton withdrew there were 3 threads dedicated to her.
Kassie, David Neiwart is. Which would explain why he’s the editor or whatever that job is that Jane gave him.
He’s not just a journalist, he’s an award winning journalist.
Definitely best to minimize time spent actually posting. String/Zipties: one minute plus. Bungees/Duct-tape: ten seconds. It’s also easy enough to find spots that are absolutely invisible from anyplace except the freeways, like this:
http://freewayblogger.blogspot.....-easy.html
once you realize that Anyplace Within Sight of Traffic is fair game, you can go for a hundred years without getting caught.
I believe Dave Neiwert is but that he may be the only one.
Which is a good thing as there are fewer pre-conceived notions to break through.
It’s not that being a trained journalist is bad (my sister is a retired reporter but she “trained” as an English major); it’s that so many of the current national “journalists” have either forgotten their training or decided it’s irrelevant and gets in their way of sucking up for access to the Kewl Kidz.
Uhhh…someone who writes in a journal?
;)
OMG, don’t get that can of worms open again!
Excellent point BobbyG!
Fair and Balanced!
I’ve heard that somewhere…
I see no reason to go after the press for saying Bill didn’t like the article. Cause well if it were me I would be telling everyone I thought the article stunk especially if it were true. I think Bill is just lashing out at everyone now I don’t think he is acting with a plan. Personal Ego has gotten bigger than the Politics I think.
Still the Press could ask him better questions like why does he think Hilary lost would be an interesting one provided he could look at the question honestly without hurt.
The Good Worthy was making public statements for public dissemination at a public event.
He is now complaining, sort of, about form rather than function. He is accustomed to boom mikes pointed at him from every angle at public events; and had it been recorded by a person with a press “credential” hanging from their neck, even if they were 25 feet away and not visible to the former Pres, we would not be hearing any of this.
This is a case of a public figure making excuses in an attempt to hit the “un-send” button to a statement he now wishes he did not say and wishes was not quoted. Happens all the time. One approach is to focus on the person engaged in journalism in an attempt to distract news consumers from the person making the news.
sláinte,
cl
isn’t bias part of being human? that the best we can do is to try to recognize it and to the best of our abilities honestly own up to it?
selise, seems like a lot of the professions are outgrowths of trade guilds and have an important function in controlling the market and who can participate. MDs, lawyers, prof engs prime examples. Journalism looks like a profession with porous borders, esp’ly once the internet and blogs enter the picture. same thing w/ publishers (closer to home professional base for me): what’s the value of the imprint.
so, yeah, of course, one’s skills, esp’ly those contributing to livelihood, are something you do, regardelss of what the skills are. imho.
Raven! Guess what, bro’? I found a VHS dub I’d made long ago of “84 Charlie Mopic,” out in the garage! oh, YEAH!
“…I’m so short I could parachute off a dime…I’m so short you gotta dig a hole to kick my ass…25 and a wake up…my shit is gettin’ flaky…”
What a great flick.
There are schools of journalism that grant degrees in journalism, academic journals that publish research in journalism, professional societies of journalists, and awards-granting entities that laud people for their journalistic exploits.
Based on all of that, and the fact that journalists present themselves as members of a profession, I think it is reasonable to consider journalism as a profession, and thus something its practitioners are.
On a related note, it is clear that the Framers and Founders considered the Press as playing a unique and essential role in our constitutional republic. This is a role that the vast majority of mainstream journalists have recently been completely utterly deficient at fulfilling.
The simple fact is… Journalism and news gathering in this day and age… suck. Most journos are of a pack mentality and heavily into “gotcha” questions. It’s not just Bill Clinton, but the grieving widow who’s spouse just got crushed by a tractor trailer on I-71, or the proverbial “man on the street” who is supposed to represent each and every demographic and is asked profound and deep questions (”Did you ever get a $400.00 haircut?”.
All journalism in this country is profit-based. Therefore, it will always be inferior and without journalistic standards. The borrom line must be served. Shareholder equity is sacrosant.
I had hoped that the “citizen-journalists” you refer to would open up an avenue of professionalism. I thought that the internet would allow people to independently research and develop stories and ideas. And that some of those stories would be of a fresh angle that might make people stop and think.
But, sad to say, that clearly han’t happened. It’s much easier to ask Bill who he’s banging than try and elicit an opinion about something that actually has an impact on our lives.
We called it soup
Bill Clinton’s upset because now the whole world knows he hit on Gina Gershon and she turned him down.
this conversation is over
There’s a good post up over at the Orange Satan givng exerpts from Dan Rather’s speech yesterday in Minneapolis. Rather says what we all have known for a long time. That the news business is a small part of corporations that have a lot of regulatory issues with the Feds, and can’t afford to take chances antagonizing them by doing risky news. It’s as simple as awful as that. The genius of Rove was to exploit that vulnerability to the limit.
It would be folly to suppose that it will end with a new administration. In fact, until laws are passed to break up some of these corporations, or at least break off the news part, Obama would be well advised to sending a couple of warning shots over the bows of GE, Disney and Viacom (NBC, ABC and CBS, respectively) to the effect that any shit like what they threw down on the Clintons will cost them big time in the more profitable parts of their business.
John Kenneth Galbraith had a phrase for it: countervailing power.
Even your trash hauler is now “an environmental professional.”
Yeah, that line was priceless.
“Let me stick it in your ear so you can hear me “comin’”…”
there’s a big difference between anonymity and privacy — pre info age, they used to be almost the same thing. but aren’t anymore. Privacy we do need to protect. anonymity is mostly out of the bag, although look at the number of anonymous identities here (including frontpagers and ourselves). gov’t spy agencies are violating privacy. Bill Clinton speaking in public did not have privacy enfringed on.
thank god the rest of the lakers have no idea what we are talking about. . .unless the dragon is done hangin laundry!
There’s just something about fast drying ceiling white on cardboard.
Smells like Freedom to me.
gtg talk to people IN the car. Bye.
I’m so short I don’t have time to start a conversation.
I really don’t think anyone is 100% free of bias we all try.
damn, must been under water breathin through a reed
Bill Moyers on Media Reform and Internet freedom.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0r71L7cojE
I’m so short I don’t have to open the door to go out.
LOL. Carry big brown straws now. Don’t taste as nasty.
Rather than the feared “Show Meee Your Papez, Pleeze, Herr Citizen” neo-nazi Amerika wherein officials will rudely accost anyone at will in public, the TIA types are working hard at making it all techno-surreptitious, using biometrics, GPS tracking, facial and gait recognition, etc.
They’re making progress, quietly.
Couldn’t much the same be said about Trekkies? Indeed aren’t Trekkies even more of a profession because they wear distinctive uniforms?
“If I have to point my weapon at you again, I’ll pull the trigger.”
correct me if i’m wrong. Obama is a big boy now and has amazing patience and savvy. He, and we all, well, mostly, know it’s better to land a plane smoothly without undue turbulance, especially while there’s a significant crowd of people running in circles, spears in hand, screaming.
As an Obama supporter, I am patient. He, and we, knew there would be crosswinds to contend with. Let’s get people in their seats, lap trays folded away, spears stored in the overhead compartments and with corks on their tips, and when the faces stop looking quite so flushed…
Still,um, Jane? …. *wag wag wag, cookie still balanced on nose*
Awww, man, all’s I got’s a pipe.
“Damn, LT, you can’t even kill a man right.”
The Vaudeville Media doesn’t like the fact that people now realize their shtick is old hat.
The digital media is showing them the door.
-G
LT’s got the quickstep
is bias a problem or is it the pretense of objectivity where there is none? like the faux objectivity of “fair and balanced”
so long as bias is addressed honestly and not denied need it be a problem?
[insert number here} an’ a hook.
I guess I wouldn’t necessarily call him a boy but I get your drift.
Aw, shit, I gotta waste this Lucky to get these damn leeches off.
By the way, in what may be a sign of the times, the Texas Governor’s mansion has burnt up.
-G
BTW, has everyone seen the new Gooper campaign logo?
Linky, please. Karma.
Hey, where do they get these announcers for the Euro Cup, they sound like a bunch of foreigners!
From last night. Very cool.
pick ah link plink
Better than a “steel” leader.
The problem with John McCain is that his idea of a jobs program is war with Iran.
BTW:
Jeeez…
Awwwwwwwwwww. *g*
No and I think we address it often here which is good.