One of the questions that always hovers over hate groups and radical-right organizations is: Where do they get their money? We know that what they’re able to collect through memberships and fund-raising devices is only a pittance in the context of the kind of cash flow they seem to generate; and there are many questions about the large startup sums they often have. What we’ve known, in fact, is that many of these groups have wealthy conservatives — often building-and-development magnates, or ideologues with inherited wealth — quietly underwriting their work.
One of the more noteworthy of these is a Seattle-area-based rocket scientist named Walter P. Kistler, whose activities in this regard have just been thoroughly exposed in a pull-back-the-covers report from the Southern Poverty Law Center:
An accomplished rocket scientist has become the sole donor to the Pioneer Fund, which is listed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.
Since 2003, Walter P. Kistler — the founder of Kistler Aerospace, who in 1996 endowed in perpetuity the well-known Bellevue, Wash., science outfit Foundation for the Future — has given $200,000 to the Pioneer Fund. The fund is an organization that has bankrolled many of the leading Anglo-American race scientists of the last several decades as well as anti-immigration groups such as the Federation for American Immigration Reform and Californians for Population Stabilization. Kistler told the Intelligence Report he would be happy to donate even more to the Pioneer Fund, which he considers "an institution that has courageously attempted to do research in the field of human differences."
"I am fearless about supporting scientific research in this field," Kistler said. "I am not concerned about battles in society about what is and what is not ‘racist.’"
What he’s apparently even less concerned about is the truthfulness or integrity of the work his millions underwrite. The Pioneer Fund and its offspring — particularly FAIR, the anti-immigration outfit — have a history of peddling provable nonsense and outright disinformation, often with an academic guise.
Worse still, they often are presented in the mainstream media as though they were actually legitimate organizations presenting academically sound information, when in fact they’re just hatemongers with an academic veneer.
The Pioneer Fund is just the tip of this iceberg:
Behind the ideas of race scientists for the past half-century, there has been money — and lots of it.
If you scratch the surface of almost any of the prominent race scientists of recent decades, you will find the same well-endowed institution: the Pioneer Fund. Established in 1937 to "improve the character of the American people" by promoting the study of eugenics and the procreation of descendants of the original white colonial stock, Pioneer has funded many of the leading Anglo-American race scientists of the last several decades.
These grant recipients have included William Shockley, Hans J. Eysenck, Arthur Jensen, Roger Pearson, Richard Lynn, J. Philippe Rushton, R. Travis Osborne, Linda Gottfredson, Robert A. Gordon, Daniel R. Vining Jr., Michael Levin and Seymour Itzkoff.
… The IAAEE brought together academic defenders of segregation in the United States and apartheid in South Africa. The Pioneer Fund also supported a variety of institutions working to legitimize race science, including the IAAEE and the journal Mankind Quarterly.
And it extends all the way to groups like FAIR. Eric Alterman recently discussed the significant role that FAIR has played in disseminating nativist nonsense in the guise of pseudo-academic studies on immigration, particularly through cable news shows like Lou Dobbs’ misbegotten CNN broadcasts:
Stein is most popular on CNN, where he has so appeared, or been quoted, over 90 times since 2000. Just last year, Stein made 12 separate appearances on “Lou Dobbs Tonight” to discuss immigration, and several more with Glenn Beck, where he praised the host as “so, so absolutely on point” on immigration.
What CNN viewers were never told is that aside from simply being an aggressive anti-immigration organization, FAIR is also listed as a hate group with the Southern Poverty Law Center. Its representatives have long expressed controversial anti-Latino and anti-Catholic attitudes, and some key officials are members of white supremacist groups. What’s more, the organization has proudly taken $1.2 million from a racist eugenics foundation that was established to “promote the racial stock of the original colonists.”
What’s striking about this, of course, is that Dobbs simply rejects as untenable any criticism of his work whatsoever as being the work of "liberal" "open borders" groups — including that from Media Matters and the SPLC, neither of which have any discernible position on border security or immigration policy. And yet he will have as guests on his program figures from definable hate groups like FAIR and American Border Patrol (not to mention the Minutemen) without explaining to his audience these groups’ backgrounds or agendas — and he won’t bat an eye wondering whether or not these views are legitimate.
And it’s bad enough that Dobbs and fellow talkers like Bill O’Reilly and Glenn Beck can broadcast this crap on the air. It’s also that their journalistic colleagues put up with it. As Alterman says:
Nevertheless, the cable bosses allow this vitriol to be broadcast on an almost nightly basis, and the rest of the media has not yet taken notice or spoken out. Rather, the Politico’s Mike Allen is worried that former Bush administration Press Secretary Scott McClellan has adopted “the vocabulary, rhetoric” of “haters”—that is, the majority of the nation who oppose the war, oppose the administration, and want nothing to do with this kind of fear mongering. But that’s another story….
Actually, it is in many ways the same story. Concern trolls Mainstream pundits like Mike Allen depend upon a narrative that depicts the left as a pack of hatemongers — but they’re all too happy to propagate the work of genuine hatemongers from the far, far right. Especially if they have enough money to buy the pretense of legitimacy.
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frist!
You know, Obama is a descendant of the ‘original white colonial stock’.
I wonder what they think of that. Or if they even realize it.
One thing I’ve never understood is how (and when) did the left, the DFHs who advocate free love, equality, tolerance, and understanding, get branded as hatemongers?
And why did we let that happen?
I would absolutely trust the word of the Southern Poverty Law Center. Morris Dees is one of my personal heroes and the work that he does is invaluable.
I think to some extent no one took it seriously.
mine too
Hi, David. Nice work. We should keep all of this in mind. Hate is popular these days.
My Dad, when he died a couple of years ago, rather than sending flowers, asked that donations be sent to the Southern Poverty Law Center in his name. Until then I’d never heard of the group.
The things you learn about your parents after they’re gone…
Interesting use of code language that. However, I should say I too am a great believer in human differences. For example, Kistler is an idiot and I’m not. There’s a difference right there.
Dees book “Gathering Storm” is eye-opening.
nice to know that we can still somehow help the fight even when we are no longer here to do it ourselves
LMAO
And you may as well add to the list Kristol, Feith, Brooks, Friedman, Beck, Dobbs, O’ Reilly, Malkin…
so it really is rocket science.
Hi David,
There’s such a simple revelatory truth in the directive “Follow the money.”
When will the connection between these groups and the likes of Malkin, Coulter, Kristol and Brooks be made? I haven’t seen much original or thoughtful work come from any of these puds, though Brooks can write well enough when not gagging out right wing dribble
O/T (Per MSNBC)
John McCain wants to put a man on Mars.
Thank you for this posting, David. SPLC is one of the tireless heroic groups, and Morris Dees a true human fights hero. The more exposure of these hate sponsors that can be done, the better. And shame on the media who give them cover…but then in the era of the Pentagon generals propaganda ops, why should we be surprised. The Murdochs and Welches of the world worship the golden calf, feed to the lowest common denominator of their audiences.
They have a lot to answer for, because the Kistlers of the world couldn’t succeed without those who tolerate and enable them.
Why doesn’t he go himself?
The Civil Rights Martyr Memorial is in front of the SPLC offices in Montgomery, AL.
The sculptor is the same woman who did the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in DC and uses the same black granite
*spew* good question.
What a nice gesture! Gifts like that are the most wonderful and lasting way to honor someone’s life.
For those who like to listen on one window and blog on another…Joe Wilson is on this site starting right now regarding accountability for Bushco:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/e…..Joe-Wilson
All I get on the Wilson thing is “the chipmunks”…oh, well.
Well, they’re not a perfect organization by any means, but they work very hard to ensure the credibility of their reportage, if for no other reason than that so many of the subjects of their work would like to see them offhandedly dismissed.
BTW all that jawboning about crude oil prices has definitely had an effect. The Cushing spot price is currently $138.54/bbl. Needless to say anything above ~$60/bbl is mindless speculation by hedge funds, index traders, sovereign wealth funds, and investment banks. Although I say this a lot: we are so screwed. Meanwhile Congress and the Admininstration sit by and do nothing.
All of this concocted hate speech is designed to divide and conquer.
Absolutely. It’s about exclusion. Us vs Them. We have to find ways to communicate that ‘us’ is inclusive, not exclusive.
The only time that happens is when there is a “common” threat. Like aliens from outerspace…or an economy that affects everyone…something like that. The war doesn’t work, because it only affects a relatively few.
Your right. But the economy is a good one, it is affecting the majority of americans
the notion that there might be distinct sub populations in the human race that have different means along some set characterizations is reasonable and even very plausible.
the notions that these sub-pops are coherent thru time, conveniently marked with skin, hair, or eye color, that characteristics given high value by society are correlated with economic and social status, and that even if mean values for some characteristics vary between sub pops that the ranges within sub-pops are not almost entirely overlapping and that therefore sub-pop membership is a useful predictor of anything other than the external markers (e.g. swedish people are often blond)
are ludicrous.
for anyone w/ science training to believe this pretty much discredits them
Just an FYI in case anyone is interested, David Sirota is answering questions on his thread
Me also. He has to be one of the bravest people on the planet.
aliens from outerspace! Now there’s a good reason to cancel the general election! Wonder when mcsame will notice the alien threat!
Idiots want to go to mars. Smart people want to clean up this planet.
Do ya think he could pass the physical?
And there’s video , too! I saw it at HuffPo!
David, I’m wondering if you have any views on, at what point will we see the disaffection that’s all around us turn into the type of populist protests you saw in the late ’60s and early ’70s? What would cause Americans to take the streets again? As you seem to be arguing, all the signs and tokens of that type of movement are in place, yet, to my eye, it has not yet materialized. I guess I just can’t accept that thousands of angry bloggers and change-candidate-voters equates to a populist outcry.. at least not as much as so as millions of people on the Mall, on strike ’till change occurs.
True. And besides that, McC will have gone to that happy hunting ground in the sky before we can ever put a man on Mars anyway. I guess he wants a new way to spend our money.
Kim Stanley Robinson: Green Mars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M…..rraforming
Great description of the martian revolution there.
KSR’s worth reading.
His global warming trilogy is a hoot. Esp’ly after the next prez gets elected and replaces the presidential motercade w/ Prius’s.
Prius motorcade – that hilarious.
ummmm *trying to be polite* errrr
Some of us might like to go to Mars.
I’m thinking that McSame probably is martian. Maybe that should be how we win this election.. rethugs are from mars. Illegal immigrants.
Possibly OT: the LA TImes has up a story on Mayhill Fowler.
Fresh air is the best cleanser for this racist crap and the people who finance it. The more we can advertise its backers, the more costly it becomes. It is necessary to name names (thinking back to HUAC).
McShrub doesn’t just want to go to mars. He wants to claim Mars.. militarize it, right after he starts stripmining the moon. Problem is, NASA issued a report the other day saying that thanks in large measure to shrub’s depradations, by the time we manage to get to either rock, other people will already have been there. Oh well. Another opportunity for war profiteering….
I just think it is really sad when someone who has been given the gift of a great mind (he is a rocket scientist!) has such low self-confidence/self-esteem that the only way he/she can feel worthy is by trying to somehow find justification for feeling ’superior’ over large groups of other people.
Sigh.
I just filled up the car. $4.45 for 87 grade gas.
The tipping point is today.
McSlime doesn’t have an original idea in his head, does he? Go to Mars – that was Bush’s ‘legacy’ plan. Can we load the whole lot of them up and ship ‘em off anytime soon? I mean real soon?
Their chances are about 50-50 of surviving the landing….hmmm.
This is looking better and better!
O/T? This really belongs on the last thread, but most Firepups are over here now.
I just love it that so many of the chickens are coming home to roost 4 months or so before the elections. With Bill Clinton, the rug didn’t really start to slip until after the elections, which should have helped Al Gore– but it didn’t help him enough.
But now the whole house of cards is starting to collapse. Let’s just hope it doesn’t collapse all the way to another Great Depression.
Bob in HI
A lady at the gas station said she won’t fill her car up, because she’s worried someone will siphon the gas. So she gets 1/4 or 1/2 a tank.
I thought that was his plan for us.
good grief. You saw the huge jump in the oil price per barrel? Hideous. Vicious cycle coming. Gas prices go up, money earned can’t cover mortgage/rent, food, utilities and transportation (forget about health insurance). People have to start making hard choices.
There’s a structural engineering firm in Berkeley named Tipping & Associates.
It will be worse than the Great Depression. Our resources are much more finite. And as a lot of the rest of the world has mass transit we have next to none. You can’t get to New Orleans from Sacramento by train unless you want to go to Chicago first. How fucked is that? Sorry. I am ranting.
I have heard/read reports where gas thieves are actually puncturing the the gas tanks in cars to get to the gas because so many have locked gas caps.
It will be – tomorrow. And he will deny that he ever said anything about going himself. And the day after that it will be him again. And he’ll deny that he ever said anything about it being us. And the day after that…well, you get the idea.
ygm FB.
Things like that could have tragic results if they are doing that to a car in someone’s driveway and the homeowner has a loaded shotgun. It could get ugly real fast.
My husband and I have one car, a ford focus station wagon-2001. But our neighbors, who are typical, have six cars, two motorcycles and a big fat boat. Wonder how they can convert all of that into insulation for their house.
i wouldn’t doubt it
or kindle for cooking
A new Dem running against Bushco shill Dennis Rehberg (R-MT) has as part of his platform, high speed rail – and electric at that. He has some other stuff that I really don’t understand about electric “storage” but I like the rail proposals.
Maybe we can help him get elected…
I think about Jimmy Carter every time the gas goes up.
Ditto – if we had only listened…
ygm FB
i remeber my parents telling me about the gas shortage here and how they could only get gas on certain days because their license plate ended in an odd number.
The really interesting thing would be if this guy had his DNA analyzed – he might get a shock too. There are very few “pureblood” people – in the world – at this point. Skin color does not tell you anything.
Of course, as a scientist, he ’should’ know that but…
What if Obama, given the key to the city becomes
a Robert Mugabi…woe is me.
Mr. doodle and I got locking gas caps a couple of weeks ago.
Yeah, I sat in some of those lines. And that didn’t guarantee a fill-up. You got 10 gallons. And that was only if you were pretty close to the front of the line – because each station only got so much and when it ran out – that was it. You were out of luck.
Odd and even days and many temper tantrums. Awful. We are so short-sighted in this country. London’s Tube opened in 1863 – now that’s thinking ahead but we think about 20 minutes into the future and believe we have solved the problem. We are going to be sorry.
And what in Obama’s history and positions makes you think this is a possibility?
As contrasted with the possibility that Bush and Cheney could do the same thing?
Hunnybun,
You are in NO for a short term or Just for Now or what?
yep, gas here in LA CA is high…this morning 443/496.
It’s does say This Is The Turning Point.
But, then, there’s the news of :
* Obama met with HRC last night.
Senate failed to pass a bill today to lower our contribution to Global Warming.
And, the whole A*p*c fallout.
It’s hard hon.
I know it’s just the middle of the day — but, let’s take a moment to dance, eh?
‘Cause, man I’m pissed and pooped.
Kicks just keep getting harder to find.
(Hope everything is.. if not okay, doable.
You have my FB if ya wanna talk.
(((Mare!!!)))
yup — I had just gotten my driver’s permit. Remember sitting in gas lines while my Mom went grocery shopping. For a 15 yr old, was a bit of thrill to be by myself in the car *driving!*, even if at 2 miles/hr and only up to the pump ;)
my dad showed me pics he had taken showing the ‘out of gas’ signs at gas stations. seems lesson was not learned
It is a shame as it wasn’t that long ago
Not at all. We went right back to gas-guzzling tanks for cars and thought that the oil would never end.
And called Jimmy Carter a loon for even thinking such a thing.
We’re on the same page. (((Wobbs)))
Donita in the traffic spin upstairs
I have mixed feelings about the global warming bill:
Sad because it failed.
Glad because it was amended to the point of being nearly useless.
I think I’d rather have a bill that would actually do the job than one that’s just going to be a pretty piece of paper for Shrub to veto … or signing-statement out of usefulness.
Not all of us have done this.
I was angry the first time it cost me $3 to fill my old VW bug.
I now drive a 16 Year Old Ford Escort that still gets better than 30mph.
I agree with you on that. Sometimes I’d rather the bad ones fail too. Otherwise we cover our eyes and ears and claim we’ve done something, and all we did was paper over the holes, sweep it under the carpet and continue to totally ignore the problems.
Hmmm. Gaging by his constant stream of gaffes, straight up denials of verifiable statements, and backtracks like today’s change of heart on wiretapping, John McCain is man on mars.
especially interesting thing because last I checked, the powers that be aren’t making any more dinosaurs so to think that the oil supply is infinite is to not only sticking your head in the sand but it is also irresponsible.
the “we” is a collective for the society as a whole – not particularly aimed at individuals.
I know – I drove a 30-year-old Ford T-bird that got 27 mpg on the highway and 24 in the city.
I have a Prius now.
Honestly I could not even bring myself to imagine
such thing could happen dakine01@ 74. I was only
trying to respond to something that I read that
seemed to me to be a statement of untrust towards
Obama, based on his ancestors. No offense dude.
it is otherworldly, isn’t it?
they aren’t making more dinosaurs? then what was this thread about?
http://firedoglake.com/2008/06…..chameleon/
;)
Well, as the old saying goes – follow the money. Oilman – gaahhh – can’t think of his name – but he’s been around since the first oil well, and he’s richer than sin as a result – has begun divesting himself of oil futures and putting his money elsewhere.
A message we would all do well to heed.
does it run on lattes? *g*
very cool. We need to get another car and are leaning heavily Prius but are considering something larger considering the hauling we do and the pup (80lb)
It wasn’t a statement of untrust. We were discussing a racist. The racist was saying that he wanted only the ‘original’ (read white) bloodlines from the original colonists.
Since Obama’s mom is white – he qualifies. Even though his skin is a lovely shade of ‘chocolate’.
707! I will be chuckling about that the rest of the evening
If yer thinkin’ of an H3, better hurry. GM’s stopping production. *g*
You should really look at the Prius then. Most people make the mistake of thinking it’s a sub-compact – it’s actually a mid-size sedan – seats 5 comfortably.
And it has lots of room in the back. Fold the seats down and load her up. I carried concrete blocks, half-sheets of plywood, 3 toilets and various other construction materials in it when my daughter and I were bulding out our day-spa.
I use peddle power as much as possible but to get to the grocery store, farmer’s market, etc. we have to head down the hill and that is not bike friendly (distance or road conditions)
HA! It would have to be the family vehicle and home. I see those things on the road and wonder wth where they thinking in even buying those things. Seriously what kind of lifestyle do you have that would demand a tank?
I’m physically disabled and cannot do that so I tried to do the next best thing. Even though I have the Prius – I am still very careful about my driving – try to keep it to one trip per week to town, etc. I have to travel some distance for some of my healthcare (I’m a vet so have to do the VA Hospital which is 120 miles away one way) at least once per month. But I make a tank of gas last almost a whole month.
Oh cool. thanks for the info. I had no idea they were that large. that might suit us well indeed.
The American corporate media has an agenda and it’s to preserve and protect the status quo and the position of pampered and priviledged rich, white, elites. NPR this evening did a piece on McSame and once again they brand him as the “maverick”. They interview only one person for the piece,Mike Murphy, a right wing propagandist for the Republican Party. Anybody that contributes to NPR has sucker written on their foreheads.
every little bit helps. we should all be so responsible. When mr wobbs and i are in brasil, our car there is a sort of hybrid. it runs on ethanol and gas. it gets great gas mileage
I did the Spotlight thing.
The lifestyle of an ego big enough to have to haul around in a dump truck. The people I see driving those things usually can’t turn it, can’t park it and on narrow two lane roads they run ya off the road. Unless ya wanna play chicken and they usually give cuz they don’t want to scratch the paint.
“My husband and I have one car, a ford focus station wagon-2001.”
Good choice– I had one for several years, but I’ve “upgraded” to the 2004 model– which is bright red! People who have’em tend to hold onto them, and here in Hawaii I can’t just drive to the next state to pick one up, so I feel fortunate to have found one in good shape.
People with SUV’s are paying the piper now.
Bob in HI
i’m going to have to head down the hill to trader joe’s. seems we have little to nothing for dinner (or breakfast, snacks, cocktails, etc.)
Brasil is really doing great with the gas thing.
lol. that is so true.
And folks used to give me a hard time about my 1992 4 cylinder rice burner pickem up. At the pump I just look at ‘em and…smile.
ygm @txwinet
yes, they are. they said no more dependency on foreign oil (because it was breaking an already poor country)
i’d love a prius but it’s been out of my price range for a long time. Still is for the moment. For now i have to settle for the 30mpg highway stuff. Sadly, those of us who never break the 20K per year earnings mark have to settle for what we can get and use it wisely. Which means i drive because i have to, but do my best to keep the useless trips minimal.
HA! You are so correct!
My beef with all the “SUV”s is that they are exempt from emissions and CAFE standards because they are supposed to be sort-of ‘off-road’ vehicles. You ever seen one of those monsters off the road?
Me neither. If I had paid 100K for a vehicle I wouldn’t take it off-road either. Wouldn’t want to scratch the paint.
Bwahahahahahahahaha!
Damn, I don’t know why I haven’t asked you about this before. What’s your take on the political upheaval in Brasil? Is the resource rich region going to secede and can Lula control the situation?
keep your chin up. The prices will come down eventually. it is amazing that many folks can’t see that going green equals going blue (good paying jobs) *sigh*
which is really the right strategy for everyone. minimize the driving, regardless of mpg.
(of course, i can’t get too sanctimonious regardless of our cars / house footprint. my job has me flying very frequently which just destroys any hopes at responsible env footprint. one of those hard ideals/reality/self-interest knots. ain’t no easy answers.)
Hey, c’mon on over for dinner! Been dying to meet you both!
I used to like that beer commercial that said the only time one of those SUVs would ever be offroad is if the owner accidentally backed over their flower bed.
Yeah, it feels like America is riding the rapids at the moment…
Sent you one just now.
It will just fit into most ‘compact’ spaces. If you’re not sure, I’d advise going with the larger parking space. Nice headroom. Use a light foot on the gas, it’s responsive. (I have a 2002.)
You are exactly right. I couldn’t afford a Prius on what I make either – I bought it with life insurance money when my husband passed away. Otherwise I’d be doing the same thing – driving an older car, but carefully.
I’m not one of those people who lord it over others cuz I have the “hybrid neener neener” crap.
I just had a situation where I could get one, and I chose to spend the money on that instead of other things.
I like to say that the only time they’re ever off road is when there’s no parking left on the street where their beer drinking buddies live and they have to park on the lawn.
yeah but it might get dirty!
Yeah. I just interviewed for a job that’s a lot closer than my current 18 mile one way commute. 36 miles a day to work round trip is NOT good. I used to do it in a much better(93 Geo Metro) milage car, but that got ate by a pothole. Therefore i had to settle for the less efficient. If this job comes through, it reduces my commute by about 18 miles and also will pay me a LOT better than my current job.
kewl!
Checked all folders, not seeing it.
Nah, just the tars get dirty. Get enough of them on the lawn enough times and the beer drinking buddy doesn’t have to mow the lawn any more. Everybody wins.
Brasil has historically seen itself by region. Pride, Identity is defined by the region you hail from. People have always clinged to it as a sense of pride and it was how brasil was goverend up until roughly WWII when in the name of national unity, they gave up (forced to) their regional/state flags, identity, etc for a national flag, identity, etc. I say that to say that regional concerns runs deep. The northeast is terribly poor, prone to droughts and has very little industry located there outside of sugar. Other regions depend on the resources they have in order to take care of regional concerns that the fed gov’t has not. Add to that massive corruption on all levels of gov’t and the push/pull for power(I could tell you some horror stories), the sinking world economy and you could see why the threat to secede is there (if independent, they certainly could negoiate their own contracts with foreign gov’ts with regards to use/production, extraction etc.
Will it happen? given brasil’s history, anything is possible. my parents fled here under the dictatorship of the 70’s and 80’s.
good luck! fingers crossed!
Aww would love to. We’re gonna take you up on that you know *g*
New Rulez:
You can only own one of those things if you can prove you need it (you live in a war zone)
Nice nutshell. Thanks. Puts a lot of perspective on the issue.
New Loopholez
The police dept is the agency that determines whether you live in a war zone or not. Every police dept says their city is a war zone. No war zone, no money. No money, no police force. War zone all the time.
forgot to add that much was expected from Lula (originally is from the Northeast) especially for the poor states in brasil. But corruption is the rule not the exception and his first administration was tainted with it. he didn’t win his next term by as large a vote but his promises so far have been empty. The first time around, he won almost all the states inthe Northeast except my beloved Alagoas (it is very, very poor) and he punished them for not voting him in by largely ignoring the state. It would not serve South america well for this kind of upheaval and i can guarantee that there is a lot of talking going on (foreign countries as well) behind the scenes to try to work this out.
Isn’t it amazing that the “poor” countries are also usually the ones riddled with corruption? I wonder if it’s the reason they are poor – or the corruption is a result of them being poor. Either way, the people all lose.
Sorry your parents had to leave – that must have been really hard for them.
yes — very interesting. thx
I eagerly look forward to the day! Actually, it will have to be a banquet, as all the Centex Pups will be onhand.
i approved of lula’s minister of culture!
Ah yes, the loopholez. They are better than potholez, and golf holez, and …
Can’t get along without ‘em.
who wouldn’t, Gilberto Gil is a national treasure.
he’s actualy playing in Boulder in a couple weeks. So, we’ll get to go see him! Actually our second time!
absolute power corrupts absolutely. It has always been corrupt to some degree (the gov’t, the police, etc).
They were sad to leave but had to. My dad was on their list of agitators
BTW what I stated above is sort of simplified synopsis. It truly is much more complicated than that but for a post, it sort of has to do
I understand. We all tend to try to simplify stuff, even if it is just for a post, but I think we also know that it is far more complicated than anyone can possibly say – or even know.
OT, from nyt coverage on climate bill failure
gawd … don’t they get it at all …
My favorite is the soundtrack he did from the move, Eu, Tu, Eles. You can pop over to amazon and here some samples.
I guess my question was more general and not just applicable to Brasil – on the correlation between (relative) poverty and corruption.
Oh the music style is Forro (regional music from the Northeast)
No, they don’t.
The price of gas is still (unfortunately) artificially low due to our heavy subsidies of the oil and gas industries.
We won’t learn until we all die of global climate change I guess.
i don’t have that one … yet … looks like i’ll be downloading later tonight ;) thanks! his obra is a bit daunting, esp’ly for clueless north americans. but, i’ve love everything we have so far …
The dynamics of corruption, particularly in poor countries, is complex, isn’t it? At the low level we have the local cop who for the first time in his life has a steady salary and the ability to buy the things he’s told will make him happy. The more things he wants the more money he needs. How is he supposed to get it? A little favour here, a nod and wink there. A social issue unto itself. And how do we resolve it?
which sounds like brasilian norteno to these ears … revealing my musical roots ;)
I guess this officially marks the end of this Congressional session. Once they start with the political games due to the upcoming election – nothing else of substance will happen until after January 20, 2009.
chicken/egg argument
does poverty/corruption correlation apply to the US?
is it deliberate policy to destroy middle class and apply a 3rd world economic model?
does cheney’s grandmother suck eggs?
cool!!!!
Well feel free to share my way as well. I love rock, I love the modern brasilian music (even the rap–ithe conscious stuff) but I have a soft spot for regional music
I see that as a good thing. Too many items on the Rethug agenda. The less we have the Dems caving the better for all of us.
Yes, it is complex – and I sure don’t have any answers. Maybe that is the argument for sustainable development – and lifting the general economic status of entire regions/countries as a way of dealing with it. If the living standards are not so impoverished for the lower economic groups – maybe that is a way to level the field so to speak. But how to do it in a way that doesn’t result in the massive materialism that is so rampant here in the US?
That is exactly it. I have no idea. Bribery is the norm. I will share some stories with you about the police and stuff later.
I think part of the problem is that it is seen as a way to obtain money and in some instances power that they would otherwise not have. like most latin american countries, Brasil has a rigid class system. to whichever class you are born, you tend to stay there. There is almost no middle class and well you help the economy by hiring maids and gardeners, drivers, etc.
Well, right-wing policies are primarily designed to transfer wealth and resources from everyone else to the already wealthy. It kind of fits with their other policies that include no one who isn’t wealthy deserves to be wealthy – because if they did, they would already be wealthy. Therefore, they suck and deserve to be poor because they suck. When you frame everything in life around that – it’s not about ‘destroying the middle class’, just a fact of their life in accumulating even more wealth – by any means.
gotta go pups. Be back a little later. have to go buy vittles for the hungry brit
Don’t know if old news by now. Edwards asserted he does NOT WANT the VP spot.
It works the same way here, probably not on the scale that it does in poorer countries. We have our stories of corrupt cops and, particularly in the south, corrupt sheriff’s. And corrupt officials. It’s a world wide problem, just more noticeable in the poorer countries where state salaries are usually nowhere near enough to get by on. In Brasil it may be a 100 (insert currency here) a month for the town official. In Congress it’s hundreds of thousands. Just a matter of scale.
Alias, have you heard anything about the potential job yet?
It was the Southern Poverty Law Center that diddled the cops to raid the Texas sect compound.
The SPLC is a wtf master of disinformation.
Lets not forget about our African American Secretary of State, with Colin Powell before her, when she was National Security Adviser. Why, Condoleeeeza Rice even has an oil tanker named after her! Then of course there is Clarence Thomas, and who can forget Alan Keyes! who couldn’t quite defeat Senator Obama in his adopted state of Illinois, to which he is so very loyal.
Perhaps slightly more important than melanin content are the policies a candidate would enact, and the special interests to which he is beholden.
you gotta luv the way Randy Newman attacks racism
We’re rednecks, were rednecks,
Don’t know our ass from a hole in the ground.
We’re rednecks we’re rednecks
Keepin those niggers down
and this
I went down to the diamond mines with my brother this morning
And we were standin there in a big long line with all them niggers starin at you real hard with those big ugly yellow eyes
It’s christmas in Capetown and it ain’t the same
and this
Hey Mikey!,things have changed since we was growin up
Never used to have any spades around here,now you got em
Never used to have any Mexicans,now you got em
Never used to have any Chinamen,now you got em
Never used to have all this ugly music playin all the time
What ever happened to the old songs
Like The Duke of Earl
Hey Mickey!, what ever happened to the fucking Duke of Earl !!