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	<title>Comments on: Northrop Tanker Deal Will Cost U.S. Taxpayers Billions</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/05/northrop-tanker-deal-will-cost-us-taxpayers-billions/</link>
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		<title>By: JTMinIA</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/05/northrop-tanker-deal-will-cost-us-taxpayers-billions/#comment-1480840</link>
		<dc:creator>JTMinIA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 03:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/05/northrop-tanker-deal-will-cost-us-taxpayers-billions/#comment-1480840</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&gt; “Ghosting” isn’t done here. Unless you can prove it, you’d better withdraw it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Like most posts on these blogs, a majority was plagiarized from elsewhere (albeit coupled with a link).  But the suggestion of “ghosting” really was aimed (I believe) at the authors of the TankerWhitePaper.  And I, for two, would not be at all surprised if Boeing helped to write that “report.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Even if the IFPTE wrote it all on its own, it’s still rather important to do a little fact-checking before passing it on.  (You know, that kind of sloppy work can get you involved in a land war in Asia if you’re not careful.)  That it takes only minutes to Google up plenty of contradictions does not speak well for either the IFPTE (or their ghosters) or anyone who passes it on as something worth taking seriously.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; “Ghosting” isn’t done here. Unless you can prove it, you’d better withdraw it.</p>
<p>Like most posts on these blogs, a majority was plagiarized from elsewhere (albeit coupled with a link).  But the suggestion of “ghosting” really was aimed (I believe) at the authors of the TankerWhitePaper.  And I, for two, would not be at all surprised if Boeing helped to write that “report.”</p>
<p>Even if the IFPTE wrote it all on its own, it’s still rather important to do a little fact-checking before passing it on.  (You know, that kind of sloppy work can get you involved in a land war in Asia if you’re not careful.)  That it takes only minutes to Google up plenty of contradictions does not speak well for either the IFPTE (or their ghosters) or anyone who passes it on as something worth taking seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: cando</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/05/northrop-tanker-deal-will-cost-us-taxpayers-billions/#comment-1480800</link>
		<dc:creator>cando</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 03:14:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/05/northrop-tanker-deal-will-cost-us-taxpayers-billions/#comment-1480800</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I hope Obama’s staff is all over this one too.  McCain has been busy “opposing the administration” but somehow helping another set of his buddies.  Is he really not as smart as we used to think he was?  Or is he so elite that he just doesn’t realize what his actions have done to us ordinary Americans?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope Obama’s staff is all over this one too.  McCain has been busy “opposing the administration” but somehow helping another set of his buddies.  Is he really not as smart as we used to think he was?  Or is he so elite that he just doesn’t realize what his actions have done to us ordinary Americans?</p>
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		<title>By: DWBartoo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/05/northrop-tanker-deal-will-cost-us-taxpayers-billions/#comment-1480303</link>
		<dc:creator>DWBartoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 23:58:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/05/northrop-tanker-deal-will-cost-us-taxpayers-billions/#comment-1480303</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Some time ago, on another thread where the U.S. military was discussed, I asked, thinking about Iran, when it might be appropriate for the military to not ‘go along’, to NOT follow orders.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The question was put to me; Would you want the U.S. military to mutiny and create a coup?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Upon reflection:  No, I would not - but - I would, also, not want the U.S. military to participate, willingly, in a coup d’etat, either.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some time ago, on another thread where the U.S. military was discussed, I asked, thinking about Iran, when it might be appropriate for the military to not ‘go along’, to NOT follow orders.</p>
<p>The question was put to me; Would you want the U.S. military to mutiny and create a coup?</p>
<p>Upon reflection:  No, I would not &#8211; but &#8211; I would, also, not want the U.S. military to participate, willingly, in a coup d’etat, either.</p>
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		<title>By: mogul456</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/05/northrop-tanker-deal-will-cost-us-taxpayers-billions/#comment-1480271</link>
		<dc:creator>mogul456</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 23:47:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/05/northrop-tanker-deal-will-cost-us-taxpayers-billions/#comment-1480271</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The reason Boeing didnt get the contract was because the DOD wanted to send a message they were screwed on the prior sweetheart deal with Boeing that fell thru and sent two or three of their top executives to jail.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If you were screwed by a car dealer on the new car you bought wouldnt you go to a different car dealer on your next purchase?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason Boeing didnt get the contract was because the DOD wanted to send a message they were screwed on the prior sweetheart deal with Boeing that fell thru and sent two or three of their top executives to jail.</p>
<p>If you were screwed by a car dealer on the new car you bought wouldnt you go to a different car dealer on your next purchase?</p>
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		<title>By: maryo2</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/05/northrop-tanker-deal-will-cost-us-taxpayers-billions/#comment-1480121</link>
		<dc:creator>maryo2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 22:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/05/northrop-tanker-deal-will-cost-us-taxpayers-billions/#comment-1480121</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I don’t have access to The Wayne Madson Reports but somebody at Crooks and Liars said:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“re The Wayne Madson Report — Recent developements about these [Air Force] firing suggest that both these people in the Airforce were establishing another nuclear link to the White House via the VICE PRESIDENT’S OFFICE. That Cheney was responsible for these two being in their positions. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;More over - Gates got wind of this back door powerplay and shut it down before some event brought weapons flying at Iran.”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don’t have access to The Wayne Madson Reports but somebody at Crooks and Liars said:</p>
<p>“re The Wayne Madson Report — Recent developements about these [Air Force] firing suggest that both these people in the Airforce were establishing another nuclear link to the White House via the VICE PRESIDENT’S OFFICE. That Cheney was responsible for these two being in their positions. </p>
<p>More over &#8211; Gates got wind of this back door powerplay and shut it down before some event brought weapons flying at Iran.”</p>
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		<title>By: DWBartoo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/05/northrop-tanker-deal-will-cost-us-taxpayers-billions/#comment-1479851</link>
		<dc:creator>DWBartoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 20:24:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/05/northrop-tanker-deal-will-cost-us-taxpayers-billions/#comment-1479851</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;‘…the future of the U.S. military.’  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The U.S. military is a sacred cow, just like God or Capitalism, and, therefore, it is above comment, question or critical discussion.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Founding Fathers had quaint concerns (although ‘they’ thought those ‘concerns’, serious) about the dangers of a ’standing’ army (huge, permanent, military apparat).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Somewhat later, President Eisenhower, who knew a little bit about the military, warned us about the Military-Industrial-Congressional ‘complex’.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What is the future of the U.S. military?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A war in Iran?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Using nuclear weaponry?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Do we really want to go there or there?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Maybe the notion of the military as, essentially, the only means of ‘National Service’ for most citizens, should be re-examined?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The U.S. military is different from any other military establishment.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Organized Mayhem, American-style, is ‘different’ from other organized mayhem …&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;However, when you are deaded you are still dead.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;When you are wounded you are still wounded.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But what about profit?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Who gets war profit?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;How much should they get?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now that there are no longer any $200.00 toilet seats or $600.00 hammers, we may presume that the troops, the ‘grunts’, are getting everything they need.  Both while serving and afterwards …&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If we have to have a military, then it must be the biggest.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Big matters, but biggest is best …&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Think how embarrassing it would be for an American President to discover, while visiting over ‘there’, that our’s ain’t the biggest.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Talk about shame.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So, then …&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Will the U.S. military have a hand in rendering the planet unfit for human existence?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If we have to experience the Rapture, it’s probably best if America, with the biggest military, starts or finishes it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;At the very least we can go out proud.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Is the U.S. military about jobs?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Or, is it about something else?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sorry, we can’t have this discussion … it is off limits.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>‘…the future of the U.S. military.’  </p>
<p>The U.S. military is a sacred cow, just like God or Capitalism, and, therefore, it is above comment, question or critical discussion.</p>
<p>The Founding Fathers had quaint concerns (although ‘they’ thought those ‘concerns’, serious) about the dangers of a ’standing’ army (huge, permanent, military apparat).</p>
<p>Somewhat later, President Eisenhower, who knew a little bit about the military, warned us about the Military-Industrial-Congressional ‘complex’.</p>
<p>What is the future of the U.S. military?</p>
<p>A war in Iran?</p>
<p>Using nuclear weaponry?</p>
<p>Do we really want to go there or there?</p>
<p>Maybe the notion of the military as, essentially, the only means of ‘National Service’ for most citizens, should be re-examined?</p>
<p>The U.S. military is different from any other military establishment.</p>
<p>Organized Mayhem, American-style, is ‘different’ from other organized mayhem …</p>
<p>However, when you are deaded you are still dead.</p>
<p>When you are wounded you are still wounded.</p>
<p>But what about profit?</p>
<p>Who gets war profit?</p>
<p>How much should they get?</p>
<p>Now that there are no longer any $200.00 toilet seats or $600.00 hammers, we may presume that the troops, the ‘grunts’, are getting everything they need.  Both while serving and afterwards …</p>
<p>If we have to have a military, then it must be the biggest.</p>
<p>Big matters, but biggest is best …</p>
<p>Think how embarrassing it would be for an American President to discover, while visiting over ‘there’, that our’s ain’t the biggest.</p>
<p>Talk about shame.</p>
<p>So, then …</p>
<p>Will the U.S. military have a hand in rendering the planet unfit for human existence?</p>
<p>If we have to experience the Rapture, it’s probably best if America, with the biggest military, starts or finishes it.</p>
<p>At the very least we can go out proud.</p>
<p>Is the U.S. military about jobs?</p>
<p>Or, is it about something else?</p>
<p>Sorry, we can’t have this discussion … it is off limits.</p>
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		<title>By: FormerFed</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/05/northrop-tanker-deal-will-cost-us-taxpayers-billions/#comment-1479833</link>
		<dc:creator>FormerFed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 20:05:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/05/northrop-tanker-deal-will-cost-us-taxpayers-billions/#comment-1479833</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks much for the reference. I learned some new facts and figures. Hope our other commenters on this blog read it as well.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks much for the reference. I learned some new facts and figures. Hope our other commenters on this blog read it as well.</p>
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		<title>By: FormerFed</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/05/northrop-tanker-deal-will-cost-us-taxpayers-billions/#comment-1479821</link>
		<dc:creator>FormerFed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 19:58:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/05/northrop-tanker-deal-will-cost-us-taxpayers-billions/#comment-1479821</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;As a retired member of the middle class, I definitely understand your position. I agree with your concern on the loss of America’s jobs overseas, but in the tanker case, there are supposed to be many new jobs created in the US. I know the folks in Mobile are pretty happy. Of course, being somewhat cynical, those promises may not actually ever come to pass in the numbers and places promised.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a retired member of the middle class, I definitely understand your position. I agree with your concern on the loss of America’s jobs overseas, but in the tanker case, there are supposed to be many new jobs created in the US. I know the folks in Mobile are pretty happy. Of course, being somewhat cynical, those promises may not actually ever come to pass in the numbers and places promised.</p>
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		<title>By: odoylerules</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/05/northrop-tanker-deal-will-cost-us-taxpayers-billions/#comment-1479797</link>
		<dc:creator>odoylerules</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 19:41:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/05/northrop-tanker-deal-will-cost-us-taxpayers-billions/#comment-1479797</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Everyone should check out this related article. It has a ton of good facts from a respected aviation industry analyst Scott Hamilton about this tanker contract: &lt;a href=&quot;http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/2008/05/29/white-paper-rips-tanker-award/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://leehamnews.wordpress.co.....ker-award/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everyone should check out this related article. It has a ton of good facts from a respected aviation industry analyst Scott Hamilton about this tanker contract: <a href="http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/2008/05/29/white-paper-rips-tanker-award/" rel="nofollow">http://leehamnews.wordpress.co&#8230;..ker-award/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mr.Cbl</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/05/northrop-tanker-deal-will-cost-us-taxpayers-billions/#comment-1479780</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr.Cbl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 19:26:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/05/northrop-tanker-deal-will-cost-us-taxpayers-billions/#comment-1479780</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I don’t drink kool aid.  Can’t afford it anymore.  You see, I’m in manufacturing.  What that means is that I have seen my wages degrease by more than half in the last 7 years.  I’m giving you the short answer here because I’m at work.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This, irrespective your OPINION, is about jobs and the willful, calculated destructioin of the middle class in this country.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don’t drink kool aid.  Can’t afford it anymore.  You see, I’m in manufacturing.  What that means is that I have seen my wages degrease by more than half in the last 7 years.  I’m giving you the short answer here because I’m at work.</p>
<p>This, irrespective your OPINION, is about jobs and the willful, calculated destructioin of the middle class in this country.</p>
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