Both the Hillary Clinton and the Barack Obama camps emerged from this bruising primary flinging potent, and somewhat mirrored accusations at each other: that the Clinton camp had indulged in racism and racist appeals, and conversely that the Obama camp was rife with sexism. I wonder if, when they step back from the outcome and think about what’s happened, they’ll be able to recognize where these lines of thought originated — and why it’s a bad idea to continue indulging them.
Both charges, as it happens, actually arise out of what I think were core beliefs held by people in the competing camps. In the Clinton camp it was widely believed that a black man, especially one with as little experience as Obama, could not win the general election. Among Obama’s supporters, it was widely held that Hillary similarly couldn’t win — not because she was a woman, but because she was that kind of woman: an unpleasant, grasping, overly ambitious bitch who turned people off. These beliefs in turned spawned the very real behavior within those camps that produced the competing charges against the other.
Both of these beliefs, as it happens, were originally right-wing talking points spouted by the Limbaughs and Goldbergs of the right, regurgitated by supposedly mainstream pundits like Chris Matthews and Maureen Dowd, and gradually spread throughout our political discourse.
They were convenient talking points for partisans to absorb, ways to differentiate people’s choices between two politicians who in reality are so close politically as to be nearly twins policy-wise. And they have damned near poisoned the waters for Democrats within their own party.
This struck me awhile back. Just as an example: I was talking to one of my oldest friends, a smart and politically involved woman who makes her living as a jewelrymaker in Missoula, Montana, back in early February, shortly after the Washington State caucuses, when I had largely been won over to the Obama camp. She was already ardently pro-Obama, but when the subject of Hillary came up, I was a bit taken aback by how viscerally she disliked the woman: she was cold, calculating, unsympathetic, too ambitious … a bitch.
I’m sure she was as taken aback by the forcefulness of my reply: She sounded, I told her, like the women I used to meet when I went to militia meetings, the ones who sold books like Big Sister Is Watching You (all about the secret coven of witches operating out of the White House then); or for that matter, like the average Rush Limbaugh listener. The women who absorbed and internalized all that right-misogyny rampant in those worlds. And they all used the same kind of visceral I-can’t-explain-it-I-just-hate-her rationale.
Well, she replied, I don’t listen to Limbaugh or right-wing talk radio or watch Fox, but I still feel that way about her.
Of course not, I replied. But you live in Montana. And my friend was far from the only person I knew from various parts of the rural West who had voiced their feelings about Hillary similarly (nor was she the last). It’s like something in the water; the right-wing gasbags had enjoyed so many years of spewing undiluted crap into the public discourse about Hillary — a lot of it with origins on the far far right — that it had just become pervasive. It is almost "common sense" to scowl at the sound of Hillary’s name. Besides, she might not listen to Limbaugh, but I bet her brothers or their friends did, or her husband’s right-wing family, or some of the people she did business with. When it’s something spewed that long enough and without any effort to stanch it or stand up to it, it becomes almost ambient.
That’s how right-wing crap works. It’s not meant to advance or even partake of discourse; it’s meant to end it. One can argue the worth of Hillary’s policies or her voting record or her position on the war till the cows come home; but when she’s reduced to being a bitch, that pretty much ends the discussion. And when it’s as pervasive as it’s become in the past decade, its effects are paralyzingly toxic.
And it’s important to remember that the same holds true regarding right-wing attitudes about a black man like Obama winning the White House. The most polite versions of right-wing cant hold that Obama’s not experienced enough to be president, but the underlying drumbeat of this meme has been all about his foreign-sounding name or his supposed Muslim ties or his "weakness" on national security … about his being a black man.
The impolite version — expressed only in certain quarters — is that his being a black man disqualifies him from the presidency; the filtered Pat Buchanan version of this is that "white working class voters" will never vote for a black man. I hear that Limbaugh is updating a prior race-baiting schtick by calling him the "Donovan McNabb of politics."
So when you hear Hillary’s supporters argue that American voters will not elect a black man president in 2008 — and use that as a major reason to support their candidate instead — they’re just regurgitating old right-wing crap. Toxic right-wing crap.
Progressives need to wake up and realize they’re being played and refuse to buy into toxic crap that they should not, must not, be about. At some point we need to stand back and take stock and realize that damage has been done and it needs repairing, both for the short and the long term.
Jack Turner the other day had a terrific, must-read post reflecting on this:
Last week, after talking with several Hillary Clinton supporters, I had an epiphany: that which I most dislike about the darker sides of her and her campaign is just what some people see in me. It’s the worst feeling, to end up displaying traits you deplore, and I’d like to explore it a bit as we move to the general election.
Let’s all acknowledge some realities here that fly in the face of right-wing bullshit. Hillary is a superb politician and a fighter, a master of policy whose competence and qualifications are unquestionable — and she is far from the cold, ugly human being the right and now her left-wing critics wish to paint her as. Obama, likewise, is a supremely gifted politician and a natural leader capable of convention-shattering feats, whose qualities in those regards progressives should never underestimate — though of course, it’s our hope that the right will.
The sooner both sides — not just the leaders at the top, but the rank and file troops — acknowledge these realities, and reject the right’s pervasive and toxic crap, the better off we will all be.
Related posts:
- Late Night: “Some Democrats” Are, As Usual, Very Silly People
- Irrefutable Proof that Holocaust Museum Shooter Wasn’t One of DHS’s “Right-Wing Extremists”
- Right-Wing Bloggers Relieved to Find Shooting They Can Politicize
- Maxine Waters: White House Won’t Put Pressure on Blue Dogs
- SCOTUS: Right Wing Objections to Sotomayor in a Nutshell





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Aloha, Dave!
Hey CT, how are you doing today?
So when you hear Hillary’s supporters argue that American voters will not elect a black man president in 2008 — and use that as a major reason to support their candidate instead — they’re just regurgitating old right-wing crap. Toxic right-wing crap
How true it is…!
Dave, great post. All those things need to be said over and over. It’s all about our country.
Pretty good! Thanks for asking! ;-)
((( CT )))
Sorry about Grandma …
Talking with family, we’re all at peace with it! My mom, in particular, she’d lived a long and robust life…! She was 92!
Brilliant post, and very important. It’s bad enough the friggin’ Right has been framing the arguments for thirty friggin’ years, but having them steer the narrative through their pervasive control of the media, that’s a deal-killer for big-D Democracy.
Any campaign communications staff should include someone whose task it is to identify and track right-wing memes that get injected into the media narratives.
CTut,
Glad to hear folks are dealing well with things.
My grandmother died at 92 as well. She’d lived by herself for the last ten years except for the last five or six months before she died.
Unfortunately, I was unable to make it to the services since they were on Tuesday morning after she’d died in the early AM of Monday and I was in the islands and just couldn’t make the logistics work.
The Ds should have been doing that for years and years and years and years. That they haven’t is just one example of why I always say the Ds are too dumb to live. They get played by the Rs at every turn.
The sooner both sides — not just the leaders at the top, but the rank and file troops — acknowledge these realities, and reject the right’s pervasive and toxic crap, the better off we will all be.
It’ll happen. As soon as the dust settles and Hillary’s role in the Obama camp is determined – it’ll happen. I say starting next week.
Thank you, David.
We can’t change what happened 1 nanosecond ago but we can stand back, analyze what has gone on, seen the effects, for good or ill, and make every attempt to make a positive impact on the next nanosecond.
Throughout this campaign I have wondered what purpose the vitriol served. I could see no positive impact and it detracted from the issues at hand.
I truly admire Obama’s media-savvy campaign staff, unlike Gore’s and Kerry’s pathetic crews, whom let numerous Repug smears linger on without any form of repudiation…!
Rush Limbaugh is the Lenny Bruce of hate radio.
Why does Disney — and the Disney shareholders and sponsors — support hate radio?
Why does Disney hate America?
I owe ya a coke, eCAHN…! ;-) BTW, nice to see ya at the Lake again!
Great, great piece. It should be read as a companion piece to Ian’s post yesterday, far and wide.
It hasn’t been Uncle Walt’s Disney for a long time…
Good to hear, please give Mom a big hug from me !
Nice to see you back at the Lake, eCAHN.
You deserve a glass of Champagne for hitting the nail on the head … it is too easy to divide the left and that is why the Right have been ruling the roost for nigh on 40 years …
this is a response to eCahn’s point about framing the message(my reply link is just not firing on all six here): This is why in order for us to make sure we get a really good crop of Democrats into the WH and Congress this fall, we all need to push back on that sort of racist, misogynistic, garbage. No being polite; not worrying about whether or not people are going to like us in the morning. Have the truth at the ready.
Dave, isn’t it a well-known strategy on the Right to pit disenfranchised/disadvantaged sub-sets of the population against each other? I think I smell that kind of rat here.
Just think — from my perspective, a large fraction of the strength of the Democratic coalition comes from the fact that progressives/liberals are *right* on civil rights and *right* on gender equality and privacy. What better strategy could a Rove come up with than to have people who care about racial equality and people who care about gender equality scowling at each other, and thus divided?
Divide and conquer, the oldest game in the book.
It seems that many are slowly stepping away from the abyss.
Sadly though, many of those themes have been ejected into the ether and will return to us, via the RNC’s smear machine.
-G
*waving to CT & SD* (and everyone else.
It’s raining, so I’m inside, and the topic isn’t the election.
Diehard Hillary supporters are the ones who will vote for John McTeleprompter, because they can’t vote for a black man. To me this is a form of racism, because they would rather vote for the guy whose voting record reflects a 95% rate for George Bush’s policies. Nice huh? I bet most of these women have been:
Screaming about the illegal occupation of Iraq for years now
Screaming about torture
Screaming about how the Bush Regime is corrupt, criminal, and should be impeached
Screaming about all the crimes against humanity
Screaming that it’s Enron, OPEC, the Saudis, and anyone else in the oil industry that sucks ass
Screaming that Valerie Plame & her CIA front company never should have been exposed, because it made us more vulnerable because we have no idea what Iran is doing right now concerning nukes
Screaming that AT&T & Verizon spied on Americans illegally way before 9/11
Screaming THAT JOHN MCCAIN SUPPORTED ALL OF THE ABOVE…
But yet…
THEY’LL VOTE FOR HIM OVER THE BLACK MAN BECAUSE THEY’RE MAD THAT HILLARY ISN’T ON THE BALLOT!
Oh for crying out loud. *smashing my head between the window and it’s sill* Can these Hillary supporters be more stupid…worse than the neocons who support George Bush & John McTeleprompter?
I have a slightly different take on what happened.
Obama began his campaign explicitly arguing against identity politics. This was very clear. But the Media love identity politics. It’s what they know, and what they love. So Obama became ”The Black” candidate, and Hillary became ”The Woman” candidate.
Then came Super Tuesday, and Hillary failed to sew up the nomination, as she had planned. And by that time, it was becoming clear, as pollsters focused as usual on identity issues, that Obama was doing fabulously well among Black Americans.
At this point, I believe that Hillary’s campaign team made a strategic decision: There are a lot more women than there are Blacks, and if Obama could be dismissed as ”the Black” candidate, he would fall by the wayside, as Jesse Jackson had done before him. At that point, the Hillary Campaign bought into identity politics as the way to cut Obama’s legs out from under him.
The Obama camp has been trying very hard to get the focus OFF identity politics, but the polling results made it difficult to avoid.
I think you were trying to be ”fair and neutral” in describing both camps as buying into the identity politics meme, but can you really provide much evidence that the Obama camp was putting much effort into that strategy?
Bob in HI
Just got back from C&L and the Fox News clip of them turning their nose up at McCain’s speech and trying to turn hay into gold.
Rove’s advice: no more speeches, just town meetings and debates.
Cameron: McCain’s putting forth his “reform agenda” (snort!). Using katrina to distance himself from bush to say ok govt is broken and The Reformer can fix it. McCain is about reforming campaign finance (!), was against Bush’s tax cuts, against porkbarrel spending, and wants to slow growth of government. McCain isn’t as “glitzy” as Obama but he can take him on point and in a factual way with evidence like he did when he called Obama a “liberal” as he did tonight. (where do they find these people???)
Kristol: Good God, the speech sucked!
So the memes are Obama is liberal, liberal, liberal! I’m the Reformer not Obama! I’m all about change, like changing the name on the letterhead. Yeah!
Time for the diehard Hillary supporters to switch to the republic party. We won’t miss them!
I wanted to say, Great Post — but the server has gone on strike again. Whose union owns our server?
Where will the Town Meetings & Debates be held? I bet because John McTeleprompter has no money, everyone will have to travel to him in Arizona. Anyone else think this will be true? LOL
Here’s the error message I just got:
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I appreciate this “take” very much.
I hope this election is not reduced to identity politics but the issues this year are so critical to all americans no matter what race or gender. I hate the media for how they are cheapening everything for their own gain. irresponsible.
Hey, eCahn..you’ve got RAIN? You’ve got all the luck.
Thanks. I hope people will start waking up. The blogosphere has been very disappointing in this regard.
Yes, I was glad to see it rain. I pulled up & transplanted about a dozen tree seedlings, too far from the hose to water easily. They needed a drink.
That’s exactly right — divide and conquer is their strategy. They intentionally tailor their appeals to convincing working-class people to vote against their own best interests by wrapping lowest-common-denominator impulses in cultural (read: patriotic, racial, and religious) imagery and themes.
Yes, it has, hasn’t it. And the nastiness is really quite astonishing to me. Keep the good words coming. Maybe people will get their stuff together. We don’t have all that much time to come to our senses, and I still see that gutter-guy Rove all over the place. That bothers me. Why isn’t he in jail somewhere?
We got a sprinkle last night is all; I had to haul water to the garden this afternoon, when I discovered that we’d better start eating the lettuces out of the garden….row covers hide a whole lot.
ABC news reporting that HRC will drop ut of the race o Friday.
People need to understand that as bad as it is right now…it could get a whole lot worse under Mr.”More of the Same”.
We’ve got more rain in the forecast. It must be coming south of you. (One reason I won’t do a garden. I have a well, and electricity rates to pump water out of the ground make gardens very expensive.)
Thank you, David. DIGG and Spotlight are available tools for us to start changing the narrative to something more like what Dave says…
Cartharsis…it’s a good thing.
ATTAAAACK….ATTTTTAAAAAAAACK…ATTAAAAAAAACCKK!™
Makes me wonder how helpful it might be to point out the “divide and conquer” explicitly. “Every time a Democrat says ‘Shrillary’ or ‘Ho-bama’, Karl Rove smiles and Rush pats himself on the back.” Would that get through to anybody?
Didn’t think so.
And I hope I’ll be forgiven for using either of those epithets.
Thank you David for this important piece. It’s so disconcerting hearing Limbaugh’s words on lefty blogs. It’s also disturbing to see progressives adopting the right’s view of the 90s. Here’s hoping reality and unity start breaking out all over.
Yeah, I have already seen Obamaites chatting about how Hillary is going to have Obama assassinated “Vince Foster style” if she’s the Veep.
Which is, of course, one of Limbaugh’s favorite schticks. He said the same thing regarding Kerry back in 2004.
I totally agree regarding the fundamental differences between Camp Obama and Camp Clinton. It is also too bad to see that the liberal blogs are equivocating on their analysis. There was clearly a difference between the strategies of the two campaigns.
As blogs start to hold a more and more important place in the media, let’s not drift into the “on the one hand… on the other hand” style of reportage that has ruined objectivity and truth telling.
In battering relationships where there is domestic violence, the user of power and control will divide and conquer. Whenever this occurs it decreases the power of the divided sides. The batterer will divide the victim from family and friends, and even workplace by creating chaos and problems on all levels.
I was shouting from the rooftops here and other blogs that we needed to stop the attacking back and forth between US. We could blame Hillary or we could blame Barack (at times his crew of fans got very emotional and vicious, I see no saint in this). The attacks were always coming from the right. That’s not to say that there were not legitimate criticisms of both Obama and Hillary, but the name calling, the visceral hatred had all been started when Bill Clinton became the first democrat to hold two terms. Again, not saying their aren’t legitimate criticisms of his presidency but the power structure was threatened by him and they used his weakenesses to take him down. That what alcoholics do to their spouses and it’s what batterers do as well.
My greatest fear for Obama is that by the time the republicans get done with him, he will look as bad as they made Jimmy Carter and Bill and Hillary, Al Gore, and John Kerry. At some point you have to stop blaming perfectly decent (albeit flawed) human beings and see where the judgments and hatred are coming from.
When we take up the bat, we collude with the batterers, the bullies, the ones who work against all that america stands for.
Bob, I didn’t try to address the identity-politics aspect of it, because as you suggest that is a complicated picture.
I’m arguing that the main lines of attack against the opponents we saw not so much from the candidates themselves but from their camp followers particularly were essentially built out of old right-wing memes. Surely you are not denying that “Hillary is a bitch” wasn’t a common refrain heard from that side?
I believed Hillary couldn’t win based on the campaign she ran, which was straight outta 1996, not because she was a woman or “that kind” of woman, whatever that means.
I wish the time for broad generalizations and ‘what it all means’ posts was over, but I also wish I had a pony, too.
If we don’t learn from lessons past, we don’t grow as a nation. We have been stuck in this dynamic since the time of Nixon. Reagan was the King of power and control attacks, vicious accusations. I did a paper analyzing his use of power and control in his campaign against Carter, and also in his rhetoric with the Soviet Union.
Think:
Carter
Dukakis
Gore
Kerry
Bill and Hillary Clinton
I kept trying to tell people that when they were calling Hillary a “b***h they were taking up the bat. The same on both sides when they would accidently refer to Obama as Osama. Same crap. And the bat was slung at both sides. By the constituents. And in that sense it is my humble opinion we the people allowed ourselves to manipulated by the contagious nature of negative rhetoric.
We have to look to our own behavior, take it all the way home, at some point if we are ever going to grow as a nation.
Right, but we can change. There is hope. Yes we can!
Seriously, however – part of what I’ve been thinking is that the reason that Clinton managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory is BECAUSE she is part of the same-old Democratic machine which managed to lose in 2000 to a vote-stealing draft-dodger, and who managed to duplicate that achievement in 2004.
I don’t know enough to say this definitively, but I’ve heard the argument that Obama represents the Chicago political machine, and to the extent that the Chicago machine is more effective, good for him. I think part of Clinton’s loss because she used old-school inept Democrat machinery (Harold Ickes? Terry McAuliffe?), and part of Obama’s win is because he used a different, more effective machine.
To your point, the past is the past, and sure, mistakes were made. But now we have an opportunity to move forward. And going forward, Democrats need to accept new ideas. One of those ideas is that the media is owned by the corporations and will never be fair to progressives (it will be more than fair to corporatist Democrats). Another idea is that the media is a propaganda machine of the Right, and it will use any and all means to corrupt the democratic process in its favor.
We need to respond to untruthful memes propagated in the media (Swiftboating). We need to be ready to challenge rigged voting (any time poll results deviate from voting result by more than standard deviation or two standard deviations). We need to be able to track when a talking point is created by the RNC or the Heritage Foundation, injected through a NYT article or a Fox News program, and spread through Drudge or LGF – and we need to be able to respond to those talking points.
Maybe we haven’t done this in the past, but we need to start doing it now.
David, thank you for pointing out what should have been obvious. I have seen this in my own circle, people who are otherwise extremely balanced and temperate, regurgitating the right’s nastinesses with regard to Senator Clinton. They said they would not vote if she were the nominee.
The last few months have been difficult for me, as the very blogs where I had always found reasoned, balanced discourse were full of vitriol that sounded just like the right wing hate talk. Same sort of dislocation when I’m around my extended family, loving people who have no trouble cheering on Limbaugh and his ilk. They can hug me, and, cheer Coulter on, when she advocates doing away with ‘liberals’ ie: me!
It’s past time we progressives not carry the right’s nasty themes unwittingly.
Thank you again. (sorry post is so late, couldn’t get in yesterday)
how is is helpful to accuse either camp of widely holding right wing core beliefs – without providing any supporting evidence?
Selise, need me to drag out all the threads that we hosted at this site wherein these arguments were made? The various blog posts? I encountered these two arguments so frequently and so regularly that it strikes me as disingenuous to pretend this wasn’t the case.
Thanks for this, David. Well said. And, if we don’t grasp this concept soon we will be in trouble three years into Obama’s presidency. Obama is destined to disappoint us. Hillary would have fared no better. The conditions domestically and internationally are so grim that either of them would have a great deal of difficulty delivering on any progressive issue. If we don’t want a Jimmy Carter experience, we’re going to have to get much better at seeing how the RW and the media play us for dupes.
David Neiwert:
It wasn’t right-wing crap; the prejudice of Democratic voters who won’t vote for a black candidate is genuine and ancient, and wasn’t devised in a Republican laboratory. To appeal to that prejudice was a rational political strategy on the part of the Clinton campaign, trying to win no matter what the cost to the party and the principles it is supposed to stand for. In it’s defense, I suspect there is a lot of merit to her argument that Obama is the weaker candidate for these very reasons. I don’t condemn those voters from the demographic that rejected Obama so forcefully in Appalachia and elsewhere for their prejudices; we all have our own prejudices. I do, however, condemn Clinton to elevating that prejudice to a virtue in ostensibly championing these people.
My other problem with this post is that you establish a false equivalence between that demonstrable, demographic resistance to Obama’s candidacy and the misogyny towards Clinton from many quarters, attributing all vocal hostility to her candidacy as a species of that misogyny or right-wing ambient messages. I could be described by Clinton supporters as a “Clinton hater”, but it’s because I’ll always think of her as a warmonger before I ever think of her as a woman.
We can’t blame the fierceness of this fight on the Republicans, even if they’ve tried to amplify it, and to try to buy into your suggestion is to brainwash oneself.
One more thought… This is to BAGnewsNotes. Hillary’s supporters are going to be very sensitive to this kind of portrayal of Obama. And, we need them to see the ‘truth’ of this sensitivity. The only way that’s going to happen is to admit a sensitivity to similar portrayals of Clinton. The legitmate charge will be, “Nice of you to come to that understanding now. How convenient for you.” But, the person entreating on Obama’s behalf has no fair claim without acknowledging their own human attributes; ie, the tendency to accept a claim that is co-indicident with their own beief system.
I need to say here that what brought “hil” down in my eyes were quotes she herself made, I saw her say them on tape. I agree with this article, your points are valid, well made and well taken, David, but there is that. Her. She did inject elements of racism into the primaries all by herself. And I never did see or hear of any tape of Obama making a sexist remark.
I get your point here tho.
Neiwert is knocking down a straw man suggesting this is an attack that’s representative of the hostility to Clinton:
This post really insults my intelligence. I voted for, and more importantly, gave money to Obama, because he did not vote for the war. All the rest of his virtues were gravy. Meanwhile, Clinton, besides what should have been her disqualifying war vote, is backed by people whose record, on matters of war and peace, I know and dislike.
I haven’t even referred to her as “Hillary” because it personalizes and humanizes what I see as the face of the DLC, which is what this nomination battle has been about for a lot of us Obama supporters.
Hi Kay. That was my thought exactly last night as I watched and read the buzz about her big weekend event. I’m truly sorry that those supporters who won’t get behind Obama feel the way they do. But do we really need that element as the rest of us move to push this nation out of the ditch Bu$hCo shoved us into, and onto a better course? And many have personally told me that even tho McCain is flip flopping all over the place, they remember him as he was in the previous lifetime of 2000 and will vote for him over a black man. How sad. How ignorant. How badly do we really need them?
Reply to Bob, #26, … I agree. I think the Hillary camp, when behind, drug out I’m the Woman Candidate, he is the black candidate… meme. And it was sad. And it really turned me off for her.
I don’t know how much my negative feelings about Hillary are related to the RW talking points. I DO know that I left Chicago last summer, feeling better about Hillary and willing to support her. That all changed in March when they switched to the kitchen sink strategy. At this point, after the last three months, I would NOT be comfortable with her in the VP slot. And it is realted to her (and Bill’s behavior) during the last three months.
Don’t overestimate these claims. I remember shouting that I’d never vote for Kerry in 2004 over his war vote. Well, of course I voted for Kerry, just as I’d have voted for Clinton. Five months I’ve group-hate directed towards the deserving McCain will cure these voters of their temporary spitefulness.
That said, no one gives a shit who we vote for, as Atrios often points out. What matters more is who contributes money and time, and that might not be forthcoming from aggrieved Clinton supporters, just as I don’t think I’d fork over anything for this warmonger Clinton.
Right brendanx. I could not in good conscience have ever cast a vote for Clinton, because if she DID follow thru on her “obliterate” comment, I cannot have that or any part of it on my hands. And I’d certainly never give her money, that’s just nutz to me. I hope you are right about the democratic McCain voters. And I’ll try and do what I can to help them see the light.
I don’t see much of an effort on the part of many of the comentors here to be gracious in victory.
David I have read and followed your blog from its beginning. You bring excellent insight and adult responsibility to FDL. I do believe that Obama has won a Pyhrric victory if his supporters can’t reach out the hand of true compromise which is what our party used to be about.
I won’t read KOS or TPM or any of a dozen other sites. They are not progressives anymore, they are like the peasants of the French Revolution, bringing about that which they had struggled most against. The tyranny of the mob instead of the tyranny of the aristocrats.
Probably the instigators are fifth elements sent to sow discord but too many have voluntarily fed into the propaganda.
i NEVER claimed it wasn’t true. i said you hadn’t provided evidence to back up your statement.
there’s a difference. i hope you see that.
i’m not trying to push a competing narrative, i’m trying to figure out what’s going on. and all the evidence free accusations are making it extremely difficult.
Wavpac@47 An intelligent and thoughtful post. I have felt that decent but flawed individualsof our party that run for office have been unjustly villified. It is a pattern we need to think about before we contribute to the uglyness. The brutal comments by members of the progressive and liberal community does not move us to a better government or a country we want.
I have been shouting about rightwing trolls injecting their poison into the dialog for months, and explaining why. Something could have been done about it, especially by obama and obama blogs. Simply say that any comments and blogs which called racism or sexism be eliminated from the conversation. But that was never done, therefore the trolls could continue. My opinion is that in the case of obama, making and allowing “noise” was part of his campaign’s strategy, because he had nothing to say to counter Hillary’s knowledge and experience. So to say that the rightwing trolls were responsible is a long way from the truth.
In case I wasn’t clear in my previous comment (9:54), what I’m saying is that I clearly spelled out this scenario in comments at blogs everywhere. You either didn’t ever come across one of these comments and weren’t able to figure it out yourself, or you did and are now purposely ignoring parts of what I said. In other words, you are spouting revisionist horseshit. obama could have stopped the trolls, but he chose not to.
don’t know if it’s worth it… but i’ll try to explain further.
i don’t actually think sexism and racism are limited to the right wing or to the republican party. i think it’s tempting but not helpful to blame them – in affect to project our own issues onto “them” instead of owning them and dealing with them ourselves.
one way to do that – to deal honestly with our own sexism and racism is to call each other (gently) on it. to deal with specific examples of our own bigotry as they arise. when we make free floating accusations (where it’s never clear exactly what language or thinking is being addressed) we short circuit that process. and judging from the last few months, i think we actually make it worse.
that’s why i’m trying to get you to be specific and to provide evidence. so that we have something real to discuss and come to grips with.
i’m not interested in swallowing someone else’s narrative (even if true) whole without thinking it through on my own – even in the best of circumstances. and these are the best of circumstances.
I doubt that considerations of race and/or sex drove either camp in early formulation of strategy and talking points involving characterization of the opponent. Issues of who had paid dues and who was shackled by ties to prominent/influential/vested figures of the political past certainly got the camps charged up.
A red line was crossed. One candidate portrayed the other candidate as unfit, even if temporarily, for the presidency. That line-crossing has been under-appreciated in its effect on voter and supporter decision-making. Hopefully the effect of that portrayal will wane.
correction to my bad (as usual) typing. sorry bout that.
An interesting post but I don’t think you are getting the importance of the NON-policy differences between these two candidates, BO and HRC. They may be twins re the substance of their stances but NOT in their styles.
I think true activists are hungry for the end of “gamesmanship” in our leaders, and want evidence of statesmanship. That is part of the CHANGE mandate. To “be the change” as Gandhi said has to do with the process of governance. The high road. A “moral” imperative. Promote a moral world in a moral way.
For the supposed good of the party were we supposed to not squawk about evidence of disrespect for what seemed were established rules and heavy character-assassination-type campaigning?
I don’t want to belong to a party that asks me not to explore the good, the bad and the ugly I recognize or suspect in our owny candidates in FEAR of empowering the other party.
I think the skirmishes were on the whole a sign of healthy liberalism AND activism.