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	<title>Comments on: Is Clinton About To Concede?</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/03/is-clinton-about-to-concede/</link>
	<description>Firedoglake weblog</description>
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		<title>By: dakine01</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/03/is-clinton-about-to-concede/#comment-1476217</link>
		<dc:creator>dakine01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:00:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/03/is-clinton-about-to-concede/#comment-1476217</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/03/sen-kennedy-up-after-surgery-and-his-words-from-1980-still-ring-true/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;New Christy a couple three flights up.&lt;/a&gt; on Senator Kennedy.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/03/sen-kennedy-up-after-surgery-and-his-words-from-1980-still-ring-true/" rel="nofollow">New Christy a couple three flights up.</a> on Senator Kennedy.</p>
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		<title>By: Adie</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/03/is-clinton-about-to-concede/#comment-1476211</link>
		<dc:creator>Adie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 19:50:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/03/is-clinton-about-to-concede/#comment-1476211</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;;-&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>;-&gt;</p>
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		<title>By: wobblybits</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/03/is-clinton-about-to-concede/#comment-1476210</link>
		<dc:creator>wobblybits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 19:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/03/is-clinton-about-to-concede/#comment-1476210</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m aware of the republican shenanigans that led to this but seating the FL delegation had to be one that would be ‘fair’ to all sides (Clinton, Obama, voters who voted, voters who were told their vote would not count), the other states that did follow the rules, etc.) A compromise was the only way to be fair to all sides (seat the delegation and give some voice to the state).  To place the blame on the debacle that started and ends with the republicans on a dem is well…your argument but I’m not buying (the logic isn’t there to support the claim of a desire from a dem to disenfranchise voters)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m going to move on and leave you to your ‘facts’.  Wishing you much peace, seems you could use some.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m aware of the republican shenanigans that led to this but seating the FL delegation had to be one that would be ‘fair’ to all sides (Clinton, Obama, voters who voted, voters who were told their vote would not count), the other states that did follow the rules, etc.) A compromise was the only way to be fair to all sides (seat the delegation and give some voice to the state).  To place the blame on the debacle that started and ends with the republicans on a dem is well…your argument but I’m not buying (the logic isn’t there to support the claim of a desire from a dem to disenfranchise voters)</p>
<p>I’m going to move on and leave you to your ‘facts’.  Wishing you much peace, seems you could use some.</p>
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		<title>By: wobblybits</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/03/is-clinton-about-to-concede/#comment-1476209</link>
		<dc:creator>wobblybits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 19:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/03/is-clinton-about-to-concede/#comment-1476209</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;just added that to my book list.  thanks.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>just added that to my book list.  thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Adie</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/03/is-clinton-about-to-concede/#comment-1476208</link>
		<dc:creator>Adie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 19:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/03/is-clinton-about-to-concede/#comment-1476208</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Jared Diamond - &lt;em&gt;Guns, Germs and Steel&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;good read!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jared Diamond &#8211; <em>Guns, Germs and Steel</em></p>
<p>good read!</p>
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		<title>By: lukasiak</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/03/is-clinton-about-to-concede/#comment-1476206</link>
		<dc:creator>lukasiak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 19:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/03/is-clinton-about-to-concede/#comment-1476206</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;As for Florida, I don’t see how this could have gone with 100% vote. That would have been unfair to the other 48 states that did follow the rules. It was a compromise to try to be fair to ALL sides, not just your candidate because it wasn’t just about your candidate or the other candidate. It was about ALL the states and ALL the voters.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;FIrst off, South Carolina, New hampshire, and Iowa all violated the rules without sanction.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Secondly, the purpose of the sanctions (if you read the rules, this is obvious) is to ensure that those who do violate the sanctions do not benefit from them.  That is why the rules AS WRITTEN AND INTENDED, provide for TWO different kinds of penalties…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;1) 50% loss of delegate strength for a state that violates the sanctions Rule 20 C 1 A&lt;br /&gt;
2) If a candidate campaigns in a state that has been subjected to sanctions because of timing violation, s/he is ineligible for ANY delegates from that state. Rule 20 C 1 b&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Alexis Herman flat out lied when she said there was no rule against the candidates campaigning in Florida and Michigan (and that lie signalled that she was in the bag for Obama).  There IS a rule — 20 C 1 b s cited above.  The fact that the penalties were rendered moot do not, in any way, preclude the existence of the rule.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What the RBC did was try and “send a message” about how tough they were going to be by imposing sanctions on VOTERS that the RULES never intended… and they did so for the same reason that Barack Obama took his name off the Michigan ballot — everone assumed that there would be a consensus candidate who won the necessary number of &lt;strong&gt;pledged delegates &lt;/strong&gt;to lock in the nomination.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There is a way to impose a penalty while doing minimal damage to the people’s votes — shut out the super-delegates entirely (although I think that Ausman is correct with regard to DNC members, if you gotta bend/break a rule, the rule you mess with is the one that doesn’t disenfranchise voters.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But the fact is that Florida had NO POWER over the choice of date, and the voters of that state should not have been penalized at all.  Michigan, on the other hand, was in the control of Democrats.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obama wanted to disenfranchise voters who didn’t support him — jewish voters, hispanic voters, older voters, and women.  and he got his way.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>As for Florida, I don’t see how this could have gone with 100% vote. That would have been unfair to the other 48 states that did follow the rules. It was a compromise to try to be fair to ALL sides, not just your candidate because it wasn’t just about your candidate or the other candidate. It was about ALL the states and ALL the voters.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>FIrst off, South Carolina, New hampshire, and Iowa all violated the rules without sanction.</p>
<p>Secondly, the purpose of the sanctions (if you read the rules, this is obvious) is to ensure that those who do violate the sanctions do not benefit from them.  That is why the rules AS WRITTEN AND INTENDED, provide for TWO different kinds of penalties…</p>
<p>1) 50% loss of delegate strength for a state that violates the sanctions Rule 20 C 1 A<br />
2) If a candidate campaigns in a state that has been subjected to sanctions because of timing violation, s/he is ineligible for ANY delegates from that state. Rule 20 C 1 b</p>
<p>Alexis Herman flat out lied when she said there was no rule against the candidates campaigning in Florida and Michigan (and that lie signalled that she was in the bag for Obama).  There IS a rule — 20 C 1 b s cited above.  The fact that the penalties were rendered moot do not, in any way, preclude the existence of the rule.  </p>
<p>What the RBC did was try and “send a message” about how tough they were going to be by imposing sanctions on VOTERS that the RULES never intended… and they did so for the same reason that Barack Obama took his name off the Michigan ballot — everone assumed that there would be a consensus candidate who won the necessary number of <strong>pledged delegates </strong>to lock in the nomination.  </p>
<p>There is a way to impose a penalty while doing minimal damage to the people’s votes — shut out the super-delegates entirely (although I think that Ausman is correct with regard to DNC members, if you gotta bend/break a rule, the rule you mess with is the one that doesn’t disenfranchise voters.)</p>
<p>But the fact is that Florida had NO POWER over the choice of date, and the voters of that state should not have been penalized at all.  Michigan, on the other hand, was in the control of Democrats.  </p>
<p>Obama wanted to disenfranchise voters who didn’t support him — jewish voters, hispanic voters, older voters, and women.  and he got his way.</p>
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		<title>By: Petrocelli</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/03/is-clinton-about-to-concede/#comment-1476204</link>
		<dc:creator>Petrocelli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 19:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/03/is-clinton-about-to-concede/#comment-1476204</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strike&gt;Everyone ‘ceptin’ for us Hominids&lt;/strike&gt; &lt;em&gt;Never mind !&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strike>Everyone ‘ceptin’ for us Hominids</strike> <em>Never mind !</em></p>
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		<title>By: wobblybits</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/03/is-clinton-about-to-concede/#comment-1476203</link>
		<dc:creator>wobblybits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 19:40:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/03/is-clinton-about-to-concede/#comment-1476203</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;don’t know about that.  But genetics wise, we are all of african descent.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>don’t know about that.  But genetics wise, we are all of african descent.</p>
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		<title>By: wobblybits</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/03/is-clinton-about-to-concede/#comment-1476202</link>
		<dc:creator>wobblybits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 19:39:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/03/is-clinton-about-to-concede/#comment-1476202</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m sure he will return with some spiel about blacks voting record, support of black candidates vs white, etc.  But I’m heading on upstairs and get some fresh air.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m sure he will return with some spiel about blacks voting record, support of black candidates vs white, etc.  But I’m heading on upstairs and get some fresh air.</p>
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		<title>By: Adie</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/03/is-clinton-about-to-concede/#comment-1476201</link>
		<dc:creator>Adie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 19:39:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/03/is-clinton-about-to-concede/#comment-1476201</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;isn’t everyone presumed bi-racial, if you trace it back far enuf?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>isn’t everyone presumed bi-racial, if you trace it back far enuf?</p>
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