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Is it over? AP says so:
Hillary Rodham Clinton will concede Tuesday night that Barack Obama has the delegates to secure the Democratic nomination, campaign officials said, effectively ending her bid to be the nation’s first female president.
…
The former first lady will stop short of formally suspending or ending her race in her speech in New York City.
She will pledge to continue to speak out on issues like health care. But for all intents and purposes, the two senior officials said, the campaign is over.
But Reuters says — not so fast.
Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton is "absolutely not" planning to concede the campaign to Barack Obama on Tuesday night, Clinton campaign chairman Terry McAuliffe told CNN on Tuesday.
Hard to tell here but there’s certainly lots of smoke.
Stay tuned.
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Let it end. Please. This is painful!
g’afternoon, BlueTexan and Firepups.
Hope this is over tonight. sigh.
glad the Lake is back up.
Yay! It’s over! Or almost over, or whatever. I’m just sick of Democrats tearing each other apart, when we can be tearing apart the Republicans. I just wonder what poor Larry Johnson will do with himself when this is all over.
Seems to be a lot of smoke in the air today.
Smoke, it that like bullshit?
Either that or everybody’s getting high. Not a bad alternative, really.
That stink you smell is that of a dead body that they refuse to bury for reasons unbeknownst to us mere mortal voters! The smoke is just a screen to try to hide the body!
Clinton shouldn’t concede until after the convention.
She could, however, suspend her campaign. In that way, she is still in the race if something happens to Obama’s campaign, if polling data indicate he isn’t succeeding against McCain in critical swing states, etc etc.
Also, if Obama and his campaign spurn Clinton and her supporters, the superdelegates will need to determine if this will make him less electable.
Hard telling, but there is lots of smoke.
Something in the Air from the Magic Christian.
I really do not advise using the phrase “dead body” in the context of a presidential candidate discussion. Unless you like men with earpieces and sidearms coming for a visit, I mean…
she will only concede tonite if Obama has 2,117 pledge delegates. So, she will not concede tonite,unless that happens. This explains the two conflicting stories. I think that just about covers all the bases
But if she concedes, what will CorrenteWire & TalkLeft do? I mean, they will have no reason to live.
Or, they can suck it up, and start working to defeat McSame in Nov. We’ll see.
Well, in context, I never even thought of that! It was just a figure of speech. *G*
Maybe she’ll announce her third-party independent candidacy…
*ducks* -Runs from room under hail of debris-
wonderful to see you here !
how’s that grandbaby ?
She could wait until Jan 19, 2009 to concede…just in case.
This is quite the season finale! what a cliffhanger!
Interesting that it is all about “them” sucking it up and joining “us.”
“Them” is half of the party, and the simple fact is that Obama’s campaign has the burden of winning “them” over. Sure most of “them” are solid Democrats who prefer Clinton to Obama, but it’s not their obligation to vote for Obama. He needs to earn that vote, doesn’t he?
This is an election that *should* be a given for the Democrats, no matter who the nominee is. But leave it to this party to screw it up ;-)
*sigh* This is like the neverending primary. Make it go away.
Hard to tell here but there’s certainly lots of smoke.
Coming from the ears of incensed clinton supporters.
someone’s been watching too much CSI…
After all McCain said that he’d be elected in January during a speech yesterday, so why not Hillary.
In that way, she is still in the race if something happens to Obama’s campaign, if polling data indicate he isn’t succeeding against McCain in critical swing states, etc etc.
New to politics?
Yeah, there’s a distinct possibility that Hillary could sstep in, in say, October, and continue the run against McCain. Uh-huh.
Geez.
I really do not advise using the phrase “dead body” in the context of a presidential candidate discussion
Senator Clinton’s gaffe notwithstanding.
if she doesn’t get out NOW, i’m gonna loose my whole entire mind!
what a mammoth drag on this party SHE AND HER HUSBAND ARE BEING, HAVE BEEN AND LOOKS LIKE WILL BE!!!!
she’s DESTROYING this party, his comments re the VF article are absolutely horrific. KO talked last night about them being finished doing all the damage they could to Obi, and now Bill’s comments re VF article. I don’t believe it!!!!!!!!
and if “hil” goes indy, watch, hide in the bushes and watch, she’ll pull a rethug train just like lyin joe lieberman is doing. but more subtle, more back room, IN SECRET.
SHIT!
as i said, my mind is about to go awol. sorry for the language, i just can’t hold it in right now.
I think she’ll back off and hang around in the wings, support Obama, but keep her foot in the door…just in case. She has already indicated so much.
just heard on ed schultz show – clinton campaign just announced AP story is incorrect.
hudson valley for obama still planning to gather & celebrate tonite :)
Will she or won’t she? As a great Zen master once said, “We’ll see.”
LOL!
thanks dosido!
i sooooo needed to laugh right about now.
did you guys read this, speaking of LAUGH!
She’ll acknowledge that Obama has the delegates, but she won’t concede?
I can practically hear Terry McAuliffe whispering “third party candidacy” from here.
I’m just ready to move onto McCain with both pea shooters blazin (hope that is an acceptable phrase)
We could ask her hairdresser…
Do you have to be so coase and ugly?
You know I was thinking that if both her and Bloomburg decide to run on an independent ticket that would really make life interesting (and not in a good way).
As in “Bong Hits for Stephen”? (The scamps at Princeton made such a sign when Colbert addressed them.
She can’t admit any possibility of dropping out while people are still going to the polls…
…I would so love to go to bed tonight with the knowledge that this freaking primary is over!
(((siri)))
hang on kiddo. let go of the caps lock key. breathe.
frankly, I think I might have some withdrawals, like when a Top Chef season ends.
“Them” is half of the party, and the simple fact is that Obama’s campaign has the burden of winning “them” over. Sure most of “them” are solid Democrats who prefer Clinton to Obama, but it’s not their obligation to vote for Obama. He needs to earn that vote, doesn’t he?
You mean like running an excellent capaign, getting hundreds of thousands of new voters registered, campaigning in every state, fighting every step of the way … oh, and wining.
Guess what, Obama has already made his case to Democrats and they liked what he offered up and gave him the nomination.
If Clinton supporters want to, they can join in, but after almost two years of campaigning, there isn’t much more to be done to woo Clitonites, either they leave or stay, at this point, fuck’em all.
Unfortunately she is not suspending her campaign as her people are saying she is only conceding a point. That is that Barack has enough committed delegates to clinch right now. But as she is so fond of repeating the delegates can always change their minds. And damn the will of the people unless the will is with her.
Oy.
No no no, if your dreams should be big, your nightmares should be BIGGER: I figured she’d pick Liebermann.
You guys are all ugly. No wonder Clinton supporters don’t want to join your OB group. If he is as ugly as you are — well, then he should lose — or maybe –going by the Bush standards, he will be a winner.
Hmmm, Raven coarse and ugly? Nope our Raven is all sweet and lightness..LOL
Top Chef! This season in particular…
you must have missed Ther’s post. Now that would get a bunch of panties in a bunch.
it’s a large part of his charm :D
On the other hand, he loves a good disco and a foolin’ around…
The rethugs aren’t even fired up about THEIR MAN. If McSame gets this election, I swear to all that’s truth, justice and the American way, IT IS “hil’s” total complete fault!!!!
i wonder if Pelosi is “in touch with that”?????
WHERE on Earth are some dynamic, intelligent and decisive PARTY LEADERS???
HELLO???
You are NEEDED NOW on the floor! NOW!!!!
With all the memory gaffs and mispeaking, McCain is scary. Even the Clintons have to see that four years of McCain is four years too many. It’s so disappointing that their lust for power trumps all else.
oh, *that* oughta piss him off… lol.
Obstetrics?
I agree wholeheartedly.
still trying to figure out stagecraft for tonight
can not tell from HRC site when she is scheduled to speak
BO – gates open at 7 cst
oh boy. scrolling.
Now, there is a path to victory in the fall.
omg.
lol!
ok
sorry about the caps. i am. i’ll tone it down, but i’m fresh outa stuff to throw here and i’m seriously goin brinksmanship!
I saw an interview with John Harwood recently, and he was saying that Hillary Clinton will control something like 45% of the convention delegates for the DNC. So, yes, that is roughly close to half the party apparatus — and a similar number in terms of raw votes from the primaries if not a bit higher in terms of percentages on that.
It’s a huge question on how many of those voters will support Obama rather than McCain — or how many will simply stay home altogether. Anyone who doesn’t think those are big numbers hasn’t been paying attention to the close margins in 2000 and 2004 –and the GOP dirty tricks squad. Newly registered voters do not make up enough of the totals on that to close the gap without a significant portion of Clinton supporters voting for Obama, at least not by any math I’ve seen on the possibilities and percentages.
And, frankly, I’m not willing to simply write-off the concerns and hopes of half the Democratic party, regardless of the candidate. None of us should be.
LOL!!!
Trolls abound this week.
CDT
No more caffeine for you today…
Actually, A Bloomburg and Clinton ticket would really muddy things, and Lierman is not really an option.
I l-o-v-e-d that post! I was laughing for the longest f***in’ time.
I think somebody ain’t seen nothing yet.
LMAO…
Sort of like the Current Occupant’s approach to diplomacy…(although I understand the emotional pull of this strategy in this particular situation…)
Yes mam. I am sorry. I shouldn’t vent like that here. I won’t do it again. Truly.
mea culpa
Get the pup’s chew toy. They’re more fun broken in, anyhow.
If his charm is bullshit — you all have a problem
She doesn’t need to concede anything. However it is little tactless to so the least to hold a competing victory rally at the same time as Obama. Other trailing candidates haven’t conceded until the convention in the past but they did continue their campaigns as if they could win. Continue to tear down the frontrunner and attempting to find some magic bullet or kryptonite or whatever rabbit to pull out of the hat hoping to step in when he goes down. Just suspend the campaign. Try to get the loyal supporters to chill out and accept the party candidate for the good of the country not their egos.
And, frankly, I’m not willing to simply write-off the concerns and hopes of half the Democratic party, regardless of the candidate. None of us should be.
Which is why Obama *must* offer Hillary something good. In fact, he might have to offer her whatever it is that she decides that she wants. But he must make the offer.
OTOH, Hillary has no choice but to campaign hard for Obama, or run the risk of being blamed eternally, in the event that Obama should lose the general.
Until Clinton admits that Obama has enough delegates to win the nomination before the election, she still does not have to campaign for him or support him, and she continues to enhance a division of the forces of the Democratic party. It puts a wedge just that much deeper between the two sides. (If she isn’t aware of this, then she’s not as smart as I think she is. Therefore, I assume she is doing what she’s doing with all due deliberation.)
I am not one bit wary of Obama rejecting her or her supporters in any way. He’s been extremely conciliatory and complimentary to her and seems to be offering a hand to her to try to ease the blow to ego from having all the name recognition and a campaign chest full of money when this campaign started and still getting beat by, basically, the new kid in town. (I think the problem is that Obama has her husband’s talent as a politician, and although she’s good, sadly for her, she couldn’t beat her husband’s surrogate in the talent contest.) I am worried about her ability to swallow her pride and take his hand and unite this party as she promised!
Yes, because it would make no sense whatsoever for both candidates to have an evening with their staunchest supporters, draw out the news cycle a few more days to suck the oxygen out of the McCain campaign altogether and then have a unity event together which would draw significant media coverage for the Dem nominee. Why on earth would anyone want to plan something like that as a surprise rather than satisfying everyone’s “gimme gimme now” immediate urges?!?
Jeebus, doesn’t anyone contemplate the Occam’s Razor possibility any longer instead of going straight to the conspiracy theory worst case scenario?
Well said.
I missed it too, but laughed my fanny off while reading it – especially some of the more polite kidz using “that language”
couldn’t believe I missed my chance to use F***y McF***ington handle
I’m not willing to either. their concerns, perceptions and feelings should be acknowledged and addressed but I will not take to the fainting couch either. I want a united party and will work towards it but the tone has to calm down on BOTH sides, period.
You’re forgetting: he only won half the party, and he can’t win the nomination outright, it’s in the hands of superdelegates.
So, yeah, he needs to win the other half of the party, doesn’t he?
I see your having a “primaries up to here” day today :)
WAY Past Time For Her 11 O’Clock Number
Once again, I remind you of the curse of the Klopmann Diamond. Mr. Klopmann comes with it.
Obama/Clinton ‘08
It was cathartic. Esp for that particular Saturday’s business. Too bad Siri wasn’t there, she wouldn’t need CAPS today! :]
Anger only eats at the soul (and the mind quickly follows). Welcome to the Lake and join us in discussin how the dems can unite for the GE.
Personally, I think she’s holding out for her number, that 22?? number that she was talking about earlier on. If she continues this, I sure hope the superdelegates make that happen just to really put it to her that she lost. You would think she wouldn’t want her loss to be that great!
please no.
I thought it was gonna get contagious and we’d REALLY get a foul-mouthed label from the wingnutters.
Yes, that is the curse. The great, somewhat unspoken, but still elephant in the living room problem. If the diamond were it, I’d be OK. But it ain’t.
Well…we are living during the “bush years”. :]
She should be offered the chance to replace Hapless Harry Reid.
Oh, you must mean that Lieberman started a trend that she may follow! Now that would show some leadership, wouldn’t it? Follow Lieberman…hmmmm.
My prediction: Harold Ickes will be carried away in a straighjacket! He sure did a disservice to Clinton. How different things might have been if she had not welcome/allowed snakes like Ickes in her campaign.
Is it showing? I should probably take a Midol and stop agitating myself because it isn’t good for my female parts. *g* (Sorry, inside joke…but if Jane reads this, I’m sorry you spewed your water.)
Of course the campaign disavows any knowledge of her conceding tonight. People are still voting. It might be nice to let the good people of Montana and South Dakota have their say before calling the results.
Good grief. If Senator Clinton announces she’s leaving the race tonight, she’s due the respect of actually waiting until she announces it before either a) dancing on her presidential grave, or b) begin bewailing the end of her campaign.
How about we all be patient and wait for the thing to happen.
Then, we can begin the real tasks of defeating S’aint John McCain, ensuring legitimate vote counts in all 50 states (including Ohio & Florida), and not allowing Little Georgie and the Big Dick to pull something that (in their very flawed minds) justifies suspending the elections or refusing to turn over power in January.
Not all of Hillary’s Supporters are insane. Many see the future and are reasonable people. They will stay with the party. It is only the hard core Hillbots that will defect or stay home. They are akin to that 25%-30% that still believe Sadam was behind 9/11 and had WMD. Not to say that many actually espouse the vitriol of the loudest but it is a small minority of the whole.IMO
Good response and frankly it’s refreshing to read someone who writes with good logic about the need to embrace the large numbers of Clinton supporters with no malice or hatefulness towards Clinton who worked her heart out for the position of the Democratic nominee. As I read the blogs which I do rarely these days — supporters of Obama do not acknowledge that Hillary Clinton had almost the same number of votes as Obama. I just don’t understand the negativity and bitterness from the Obama supporters in the recent days — when they have won!!
Excuse me, but after the convention, wouldn’t his VP become the candidate. (Wow, I hadn’t thought of that before. If that’s true, please let it be Edwards!)
707….choke on coffee
I kinda like the seat on the USSC idea.
Nino would immediately announce his retirement.
So would his valet.
I don’t know about you but…
I’m a lifelong Democrat but I’m voting for war hero John McCain. You should too.
It is not half or the party. It is only a small percentage of the half that are support her and then only a part of those who are still spewing venom against non-hillary supporters
A disease that will turn one into a miserable human being.
And welcome, Theresa43. We have some intelligent, compassionate (and passionate) folks here. Lots of talent and lots of ideas. Jump right in. Just beware the shallow edge of the Lake where the trolls like to congregate. Little suckers like to bite for no reason.
How about “white working people” and stuff like that? That sort of thing could destroy the base we have.
Don’t expect Clinton to concede.
After Saturday, she’s not going to concede any time soon. She knows that she owes it to herself, her party, and her country not to concede after a back room deal so ineffably corrupt that they had to break every rule in the book to accomplish it just to make sure that Obama — a candidate in DEEP trouble — was able to claim the nomination and continue acting as if he the convention had been held and the nomination settled.
She’s not going to concede because she’s not going to let herself, or her supporters, be treated like that.
PUMA!!!
I’m a lifelong Democrat but I’m voting for war hero John McCain. You should too
Hey – no hate speech here.
except for those of us who aren’t.
i get your point, but the death count for this mis Administration can not be discounted.
Ok, now I need another cup coffee. Between you and Christie I lost this one..
lol :)
s
c
r
o
l
l
A life long Democrat would never say that or do that. Go Away!
Honey, you just got voted off the island.
what are you talking about — white working people — how is she going to destoy your base?
McCain turned his back on his war hero status to become the Bush toady he is today.
Hi Theresa,
a BO supporter here. I acknowledge that HRC is a very capable politician. Earlier in the race, hoping my candidate would win I was hoping she would become a prominent member of the cabinet. I didn’t like what I was hearing from the HRC camp when the race became excruciatingly competitive.
BTW, I was originally for Edwards, but my hopes were dashed early on. anyway, fwiw. and if you are new to the Lake, Raven is one of our more colorful characters and his heart is in the right place. Raw emotions abound these days and you’re probably going to read that everywhere.
Stick around and we’ll learn stuff together.
LMAO!!!
Do the words, “To the victor goes the spoils.” mean anything anymore?
To my mind, once a guy has won the number of delegates that are required by the rules, that means that the majority of the party has made the decision as to who the party’s delegate is. If the remainder from the losing side don’t like it, you’re right, they are not obligated, but then they are either no longer Democrats, but Independents, or they should go and start a party of their own. Otherwise, it is incumbent on them to unite with the winning side.
Oh god — are we going to have to start adding /snark tags to everything now?
Like I stated earlier, feelings should be acknowledged but over the top inflamatory language shouldn’t be accepted. Unity is a two way street.
Yeah, I would vote for McCain but I hate the war, hate Bush tax cuts, hate Republican SCOTUS nominees, hate McCain’s health care “solutions”, am pro-choice, pro-environment, awww, fuck it. No I wouldn’t.
exactly. take the high road, folks.
Those were her words – not mine. I notice that you say “your” base – which I guess means that you are not a Democrat. The Dem base is made up of people of all races – not just for whites.
Back to the great capitalist cesspool.
Before the trolls hijack another thread.
Ditto on the BO supporter Ex Edwards hopeful.
707
Yep, just as much as the words “Kicking someone when they are down is overkill. Be a gracious winner.” Or at least, that’s what my HS basketball coach used to tell us, anyway…
Ah, but Ann, your mamma and my mamma taught us differently about how to follow rules than other peoples’ mammas… /s
Yeah, that’s what I meant but you said it better, sorry.
and a vote for the repugs or no vote for a dem candidate means more blood on our hands. I don’t know about the rest of you all but i don’t want to have to deal with the fact that i could have prevented MORE loss of our men and women in the military and Iraqi citizens (children, folks).
yes, so fricking sad and tragic, isn’t it? Having more troops die so the previous ones didn’t die in vain or some insanity as that?
that’s why my mind goes to worst case scenario asap these days. cuz of the meat grinder called “spreading ‘democracy’ in iraq”.
You too, can become a graduate of Karl Rove’s Academy of Iron-Fisted Spin.
There have been times during the last couple of months when I didn’t feel like a winner at all. Just tired and worn out from the whole thing. I will watch Obama’s speech tonight but I’m not dancing on anyone’s grave. Just hoping that the entire thing is over.
McCain could’ve. If he’d campaigned for himself or against W. in 2004.
CHS that’s what I was inartfully trying to get at in response to puravida.
Thanks — I was orig. for Edwards as well — but changed to Clinton and have since been terribly disillusioned with the Democratic Party and in particular the Obama people. I know Clinton supporters can be passionate but overall, following the comments of Obama supporters on several blogs the last few months have left me empty and I have lost my enthusiasm.
That was a different man. Not theman who has sold his very sole to be commander in chief.
BT, you are always so quick with the wit! I’m still laughing about your response to the Harriet Christian video. You have an admirer here. Always ROFL with you.
A friend for Clinton said she won’t go so far to vote for McCain but will sit out the election. I was shocked and tried to argue but she was unwilling to compromise. Then I hoped she would by November be centered and renewed and less bitter.
I remembered when Edwards withdrew, just before the NY primary and the Edwards crew implored each other to write in Edwards. I did. I wasn’t immediately ready to vote for either HRC or BO. I had to go through the 5 stages of grief, denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance (hope that is the right order). I see Clinton supporters being given that grief PROCESS. I see Hillary needing that process herself.
I am looking to Ombama. I wish I had that ol Edwards passion, but I do have a hope and a trust that our party AND our party leaders can get it together and heal this wounded nation which will heal the profound harms our country is doing to itself AND the world at large. On the continuum, we are all in part responsible for enabling the present horrors in this world.
I want to be an activist and I need leadership to learn how. We need a paradigm shift from patriarchal government to a partnership one.
Are you sure they were Obama supporters? I have seen some fairly nasty stuff that I don’t think came from Hillary supporters or Obama supporters. People making mischief.
Hi all! Back from the dentist. No cavities!
Did I miss anyth- … oh
I’ll get the broom. Someone please open that door and let some fresh air in here. Thanks a bunch, Raven ;->
Geez, Theresa43, haven’t you heard. This is a foul-mouthed fem blog populated by dirty fucking hippies. Raven was no more coarse or ugly than usual. So!
Hey! Don’t you folks read TBogg? It’s his fault, he made me say it!
http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2…..-on-blogs/
(Hope I get the totebag. *g*)
You know, you will find that not all ‘Obama’ people are bad. no matter how many times you may have heard that, it simply isn’t true.
Feelings are still raw on both sides, and there’s a lot that supporters on both sides are going to have to get over, rather than nursing a grudge until they get an apology for their perceived slights. But it’s also going to take time. There are already efforts at reaching out from both sides, but not everyone is ready for that yet, so for the ones who aren’t please give them their time, rather than demanding that they get over it right now.
Let me tell you a little story. Back in 2004, I poured my heart into the Dean campaign, and after he dropped out, with his encouragement, I got involved with the local Democrats and was a delegate to the state convention. On Friday night, there was a Unity Rally scheduled. One of the Kerry people got up to lead it off and said “Isn’t it great that we picked the right candidate?” After a few minutes, people took over who understood what a mistake that was, and things got better.
Don’t be a sore winner. Don’t pile hurt on understandable disappointment by demanding that people who worked long and hard get over it and come on board instantly. Celebrate the success, not beating your opponent.
Don’t be a sore loser. Let the winners celebrate like you would have wanted to if your candidate had won, and hold the demands that your hurts be healed until everyone’s had a chance to get past the rough-and-tumble and calm down a bit.
And as Howard so eloquently quoted Al Gore on Saturday, “This is not about you, this is about your country.”
It’s been painful, hasn’t it. And to be clear — when I talked about about not kicking someone when they are down, that wasn’t directed at Ann — who has been good at the back and forth and staying within the bounds of civil discussion. But there are any number of folks who haven’t, and who sometimes need a reminder that beating the shit out of someone just because you can or because it gives you a thrill or whatever doesn’t mean you ought to do so…sometimes, I think folks forget that at the other end of the anonymous handle on the computer screen is a living, breathing human being with a heart, and feelings, and needs and wants, and hopes and dreams.
And a whole host of folks who supported Hillary Clinton with the same hope for her success as the Obama folks supported him are feeling pretty angry and dispirited and any number of other things right now — just like we all did in 2000 and 2004. A little compassion and understanding is the least we can all give to each other, dontcha think? (Or maybe that’s just my mom genes kicking in…)
I agree that the RBC decision was a gloriously flawed process, which will never have a correct resolution. Sorta like a microcosm of the whole democratic primary system. But I wouldn’t call Obama in “DEEP” trouble.
I *do* think he has the potential to LAND in deep trouble during the campaign, if any surprises from his past come up. As a disclaimer, I like Obama and will vote for him, but I prefer Clinton–one of the many reasons being this very potential for an untested, unvetted Obama to have a catastrophic campaign.
hey kids -
looks like Cliff has a new one upstairs
LMAO. How many points for the nifty beach towel?
I was a Democrat (still) – but after my vote in the Florida primary doesn’t really count — I am going to register as an independent which I was 10 years ago. First in 2000 – stolen by Repugs. and now 2008 the DNC didn’t respect me, the voter — punish the leaders in the Florida Dem party or the legislature — but not me. So be it. Hillary represents all people — that is the way she explains it — She was referenceing “white working class” people in states where there were many — JUST LIKE Obama catered to the “black” vote in states where that mattered — No Difference.
huh? did u just say what my English teacher says u said?
I’m happy to see new people come in to talk about the election, but it might be beneficial to leave charges of being ugly and coarse, and statements like “you all have a problem,” behind us when advocating unity.
It’s going to work better if we reach out to each other with respect.
Top Ten Reasons Disgruntled Democrats should Support McCain
10) Because the Supreme Court isn’t loaded with enough corporate shills and outright nutjobs.
9) White House protocol has always said, “Follow a happy drunk with an angry drunk.”
8) Making abortion illegal again will deny Republicans their lucrative anti-abortion fund-raising stream.
7) Kill two birds with one stone by extending Gitmo to all of Cuba
6) Beach Boys reunion with McCain filling in for Dennis Wilson on new version of “Barbara Ann” featuring words that rhyme with “Teheran”
5) First Trollop Cindy “C-Word” McCain.
4) Hilary Clinton’s 2012 election chances look better if Democrats are all political prisoners under McCain Wartime Powers Act.
3) Another entertaining Reaganesque slide into senile dementia.
2) More efficient lobbyist channel if they’re all in the Cabinet will save corporations billions wasted buying Congress.
And the number one reason for Disgruntled Democrats to support McCain
1) President Tim Pawlenty
Only in War and conquest, not in unifying a party. Abolutely not.
It is on the shoulders of the victor to be magnanimous. We want a unified party, and that means treating each other with respect, generosity, understanding, and good will. At least, that’s the kind of party *I* want to be in.
castastrophic. such a negative nancy *g*. Maybe it will be and maybe it will be a success. Only time will tell and that will depend largely on how we unite as a party.
I can say the same thing about Clinton Supporters all over the web. The difference of course is that I have been buoyed by the success of my adopted candidate. I did not like him at first because I was an Edwards man.I believed it was Edwards time; that he had earned it, as HRC folks believe she has. But that changed when I saw and heard the way BO campaign has been run. I believe many of the complaints of misogynistic treatment of Hillary and her supporters are misplaced at his feat. He is not the person running the negatives he has continued to remain above the street fighting. We will see when he takes on McCain that will Change and BO will kick a_ _!!!
Christy, I am very grateful that this blog has not come out in support of one candidate or the other – can’t have been an easy balancing act. And now that I have taken a look around some of the more partisan elements of the blogosphere, I must say that I really appreciate your efforts to keep the conversation here (comparatively) civil.
Is this sort of “your candidate sucks” tone typical of primary campaigns? Or have blogs given a venue for this sort of schoolyard fight to manifest more strongly than for other elections?
I suppose you’re right…. although the tide of voters was rising against him, the superdelegates kept providing him more flotation devices to keep him above water in exchange for Obamadollars — the new currency of the Democratic Party.
Yes, dosido, there are Bu$h’s wars. But think also of the many who are not with us due to the other policies of the psychopath. Katrina comes to mind, but the people (and animals) who have departed from eating poison, not being able to get health care, crime waves, etc. Bu$h did that too. Or was complicit. If you take a minute and think about it, those deaths number in the thousands too. I’ve said it for years now, it would appear that they are trying to kill us. OSHA violations, EPA corruption, unsafe trade agreements (all the k-wrap coming from China). it goes on and on.
OMG Honey! ((theresa43)) why didn’t you say so?
Hey firepups. We got a Floridian democrat here! Get the TLC stat!
fwiw my passion is directed at ridding the WH of neocons.
EEEEKKKKK.
Ok, I’m now officially terrified. Tim Pawlenty? OMG.
congrats. sounds as if you just gave up any hope of voting in any primary in the future, unless, of course, you decide to change your mind in the future, which, of course, you have every right to do.
Obama never ‘catered’ to the black vote. Hillary enjoyed the majority (a large one at that) of black support. Obama had to earn it. (Just giving facts here)
As for Florida, I don’t see how this could have gone with 100% vote. That would have been unfair to the other 48 states that did follow the rules. It was a compromise to try to be fair to ALL sides, not just your candidate because it wasn’t just about your candidate or the other candidate. It was about ALL the states and ALL the voters.
I hope Barbara has snuck away, she’ll really have something to say, since she’s stuck with him as her gov.
That’s nice — I was only commenting on the negative comments against Hillary Clinton. Please do speak to them.
I dunno. What did she say I said? *g*
WASHINGTON – Barack Obama effectively clinched the Democratic presidential nomination Tuesday after a grueling marathon, based on an Associated Press tally of convention delegates, becoming the first black candidate ever to lead his party into a fall campaign for the White House.
Don’t you just love it when someone comes into your living room and tells you how you should behave! Makes you wonder, if she’s so refined, what’s she doing here!
linky
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..pr/primary
Sadly, it can be fairly typical. Which is one of the reasons Jane made the decision she did for us to concentrate on issues not personalities to the extent we possibly could. I hope that’s been useful for folks on some level…
Keep in mind, theresa, that the numbers in this thing haven’t worked for Clinton in a very long time (or it seems that way). A month or two, I think. She couldn’t win then, and her continuing on has not done any good for the party (some would say she’s damaged it). I think that may be one cause for the “passion” (your word) on the part of Obama supporters. Just a thought.
pax
nicely put.
i was once advised by a very wise person to pause and listen awhile, before entering the forest.
that’s right. and while I was perfectly willing to vote for Obama when I first settled for Clinton, I’m sitting in out in November because it IS about this country.
Both McCain and Obama will be disasterous — each in their own way, but its merely a choice between which side of the bridge you drive off of. So I’m focussed on 2010 and 2012 — if McCain is president, the odds are good that Democrats will gains congressional seats in 2010, and get the White House in 2012. If Obama becomes president, the opposite will be true — a GOP congress and White House by 2012.
I think we need to remember that the candidates are not responsible for all the excesses of their supporters.
Well the ‘Foul mouthed Fem Blog’ banner may have escaped notice.
After Ther’s post, I’m all f-bomb’d out *g*
Don’t hope it’s been useful, it HAS been useful to concentrate on issues and not personalities. It’s just hard not to let personalities seep into the discussions sometimes. It’s actually damn exciting after all we’ve put up with the past 7.5 years…
i could never figure her out. that’s why i majored in biology. *G*
I’m an Edwards guy who went over to Obama, and trust me, the people on the other side always look worse than the ones on your side. It’s just human nature; you tend to ignore or forget the over-the-top comments from people who are on your side, because they at most provoke mild discomfort or disappointment, whereas the same thing from the other side provokes much stronger emotions.
There’s no shortage of butt-heads on both sides, but the vast majority people in both camps are positive and good-hearted, really.
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Another thought. I think one reason why this might have been fought to the bitter end is that the dems have the most viable and sane candidates for president. who ever won the dem primary has a very very good chance to cream the gop by a landslide. i hope that is not wishful thinking on my part.
This had all the pressure of the GE so it was easy to forget that it was a primary to elicit the selection of the party candidate. It’s a process that differs greatly from the GE process.
I absolutely hope he is successful. I’m just saying what one of the reasons is that I prefer Clinton.
Christie, it has been a godsend to me. I simply don’t have time to read all the articles, blogs etc and FDL has boiled it all down into understandable language and also made it interesting and even fun. We are all very grateful for the wonderful work you folks do for us.
BO received 95% of the black vote.I don’t believe he had to prove anything to them when he passed Iowa with a win. He had to “prove” himself to the “white” voters. As far as being fair to the other 48 states – I just don’t see it that way. It was a bad rule and the punishment for a state for disobeying the timing of a primary was wrong and should be changed. Don’t punish the voter who had nothing to do with when his state’s primary was held.
I happen to believe the same thing would happen if Clinton were to be the nominee. However, I also believe that corrections are desperately needed in this country and Clinton would be far superior to McCain. If Clinton had been the nominee, I would have voted for in a heartbeat. The Supreme Court is that important.
It will be better for your karma and your sanity.
Well, it’s kept me reading here, as opposed to some other places that I no longer visit.
Everyone makes a choice because everyone has a vote. Use it or don’t, I don’t particularly care. Even after a disastrous 8 years, this is still a somewhat free country.
The election in November is an opportunity to right some of the constitutional wrongs that have been done and to reaffirm some of our freedoms. One candidate is more likely to do that than another.
boyoyboy, do i ever appreciate a good positive outlook and approach to the game of life.
whudduya want me to do with the pinfeathers? this goose has been plucked.
I understand and I understand your choice. We can’t do this alone, we need all the dems working to get the job done. Those that want tot ake their ball and go home, we can only wish them peace and light and hope that the anger dissipates over time.
((((( siri )))))
As messy as this has been, I’m stickin’ around for the “make up s*x” … *g*
ann…you do realize that Obama is a couple of hundred delegates away from winning the necessary number of delegates, don’t you?
This is one of the things that infuriates Clinton supporters — either Obama supporter are lying, or they are completely ignorant about the process.
707!
At the beginning of primary, so many months ago, black voters were not lined up for Obama. They were largely (although not uniformly) behind Clinton, based in large part (I believe) on what Bill had done. As the season progressed, more went over to Obama.
Now that there is an ‘intersting’ talking point but sadlt devoid of fact. Up until South Carolina, he did not carry the black vote and in fact onlt after South Carolina did his polling among blacks imrpove. As far as proving himself to white people. When did that happen? He won Iowa and has done well in fact the same as Kerry in 2004 among working class whites (with the exception of Appalachia).
Watch out Ann lest you be called stupid
Are you not counting superdelagates?
HUH? I thought it was down to less than 40 delegates.
Yeah we all still have a problem: you’re still here! That’s our only real problem. How is it you think we have a problem but you’re still here? There’s something really incongruous about that!
For folks who were asking me earlier about Sen. Byrd — just got this from his press office:
“At the recommendation of his physicians, Senator Robert C. Byrd (D-W.Va.) will remain in the hospital for several more days for monitoring and antibiotic treatment for a mild infection.”
“Byrd is alert, talking with staff and in good spirits and looks forward to getting back to work as soon as possible.”
Bill W. made that a tradition for 12-step nation: “Principle Above Personality” Has kept that system going strong. Nice to apply it here.
*sigh*
((((Quaker girl))))
We’ll all get it together one day *G*
Most of “his people” in NY state that I spoke to were against his “foolish enterprise”, including many prominent leaders …
Shorter Paul: 2 + 2 = 22. If you can get past this, the rest is easy to understand.
Thank you for the update, Christy. I wish him a speedy recovery.
for one who asserts their superior knowledge about the process, you like to ignore caucus states and tout “popular vote”. I’ve stopped listening.
yes, that’s right. I’m not listening to someone else’s denial. people are entitled to their feelings, for sure, but I’m not going to buy into their version of the facts to help them feel better.
Oh, god yes, it’s been useful. The TPM Election Central commenters are heavily Obama, who is the candidate I support, and it’s just been unbearable over there for months. You have idiots accusing Greg Sargent, who’s been a long-time great media critic, of blatant pro-Clinton bias just for posting a news item about something the Clinton campaign said, and every thread is a constant pie fight.
blame the party leaders, if you must blame someone. and what are we color-blind folk to think? don’t we get to make a choice?
It’s the whole MLK, JFK, Malcolm X syndrome. Fear.
I so love being called stupid. It just makes my day.
except that he is bi-racial *G* Myself being bi-racial, I also didn’t initally back him but that was because I was backing another canddiate 9you knwo the one that believes in UFO’s)
Just for the record, please find info on how Teddy Kennedy reacted to losing the ‘80 Dem primary to Carter.
ROFL … ((( Hugh )))
I refuse to interact with Paul because of the way he mistreated Marcy but I applaud your wisdom and grasp of it all …
join the club. grab a seat. Would you like some ice tea?
what flavor? if it was chocolate, I might be able to hang in. But if lemon custard, not so much. And berries stain my pure white linen blouse with the lacy collar. :]
God bless him for his pointing out the insanity of the Iraq War from the get go!
The thing that goes through my mind is “Pride goeth before a fall.”
Please please let us not be stiffnecked and prideful. It is too important that we come together in unity for our country.
Can I have some muthaeffin’ ice tea to go with my pie?
oh, oh, sign me up for the rhubarb thread!!!!
Heeheheeeheeee!
… and the meme(sorry Raven) that he would be another Mugabe … no kidding, they actually told me that …
I’d love some, thanks! I know we’ve all gotten way too emotional about this. But when Dems are playing the same games with “the facts” that the current administration is, we’re in trouble.
Hee, hee. Even with chocolate pies, a few fights in a row are fun, and after that you get a stomach ache.
Yeah, really. I mean most civilized folk use the WC for #2 before jumping in the lake.
ROFL yep. Want some effin’ sugar with it?
It’s been very refreshing
Thank you Christy.
That is good news indeed. He’s just a gem. We luvs him in OH too ;->
I know they did. I heard the same thing from my friends who are black
DK was amazing and I hope he will continue to be so, when we get more and better Dems elected to Congress.
(and by “we”, I mean you Americans *g*)
It’s a concern. For Clinton, too, considering the phenomenal mess the next president will inherit. I wouldn’t write off Obama too quickly though. If he has Congress on his side, and picks good advisors, he could do a good job!
Especially (in my mind) if he keeps the current administration on the hot seat, by investigating it’s lawlessness and keeping their corruption, deceit, and incompetence in the spotlight, as a constant reminder of why we are in such a mess.
We all need to suck it up like John Belushi did with the jello in animal house.
Apparently, Mrs. Clinton doesn’t want to just be beaten; she wants to be soundly trounced! And by a come-from-behind new kid on the block, no less. You would think her ego would suffer less if she’d just face reality when his numbers hit 2118, which should be today or tomorrow, and go and lick her wounds. If you ask me, she shouldn’t worry nearly as much about misogyny as she does about masochism.
Hey, use the cutlery ! *g*
*serving ice tea* Which is why i don’t engage them. I try once or twice and then leave them where they are at. it is always my hope that they join up with the rest of us but if they don’t, they can stew in their own hate (misery loves company)
I prefer the butter ball method :)
Best wishes for Senator Byrd and a speedy recovery!!!
thanks for the updates, chs.
… offering a moment of silence for a(nother) great Canuck …
Having actually looked at the polling data, what happened was that the minute it became clear that Obama was acceptable to a nice chunk of the white electorate, black voters switched in droves to Obama.
BEFORE the whole “fairy tale/MLK-LBJ lies were promulgated by Obama supporters, Obama had 72% of the black vote in South Carolina — and probably a lot less, considering that Edwards and Clinton HAD track records.
…and that was against Hillary Clinton, who has supported the causes and policies important to black voters all their lives AND against John Edwards, who had won a plurality of the black vote (37%) in SC in 2004.
It was PURE identity voting — and I didn’t have a problem with it as such. But the constant race-boating of the Clintons by Team Obama and his supporters turned it ugly — VERY ugly.
The only person who should have been insulted by Clinton comparison of Obama’s win to those of Jesse Jackson was Jesse Jackson. As someone who supported Jackson in 1988, Jackson should have been insulted, because he had a campaign that was ABOUT something — it was focussed social and economic justice, and THAT was something that resonates in the African American community. “Change the process” isn’t — and no white guy with 2 years in the senste would have gotten more of the black vote than John Edwards did in 2004.
Are you kidding? I’m just going to pick up that whole pie and shove it in my piehole! and wash it down with pure MF ice tea. unless I get mad. then I’ll have to throw it at someone.
So, what flavor pie would you like?
ROFL
Cowabunga Dude !
707!
Hey, I needa fork on zee table!
You can’t fork on zee table, you asshole!
he doesn’t get to choose, he’s getting mine. Cherries on top of that fudge sundae of facts.
gtg folks. it’s gettin’ messy.
McCow!!!111
“Having actually looked at the polling data, what happened was that the minute it became clear that Obama was acceptable to a nice chunk of the white electorate, black voters switched in droves to Obama.”
You personally know all of these black people and know why they switched?
oh wait……
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Yes, I would like to get back to pushing the slogan: If you want more of the same, vote John McCain.
Maybe with a picture of that famous Bush-McCain embrace to go with it.
ROFLMAO! OMG!
That is so right Christy. I’ve also thought about this: We, as a people, ALL Americans, have been truly terrorized by this last eight years. The politics of fear have been powerful upon us all. I wonder if it isn’t more in fear that supporters on both sides have just gone ballistic over this primary campaign. And believe, me, I know that I am one!
I am scared. I think my candidate is the best hope we have to get a genuine return to the America where I was raised and raised my child. I also think the other candidate would be the worst, I think much of that is fear based from what has happened this last 8 years.
Her continued presence in the race, long after most sane people knew it was over, has been a constant source of media glee (not to mention a great source of talking points for the GOP in the fall), so you’ll excuse me if I’m a little impatient to get her off the stage.
Further, her actions and those actions taken on her behalf in the last few weeks have not exactly given me a “warm and fuzzy” that she’s going to whole-heartedly support the nominee in the fall.
My cynicism is well-earned, so don’t lecture me about Occam’s razor.
This is why it’s important for everyone to take a deep breath, give everyone some time to digest and calm so that we can all realize and focus on what the goal is: To get the GOP out of power, esp. when we have ‘leadership’ in the State Dept. like this:
“Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Tuesday there’s no point in talking to Iran unless the clerical regime changes its behavior and gives up its suspected nuclear weapons ambitions.
Rice said true diplomacy “is not a synonym for talking,” but must be combined with pressure tactics..”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…../us_israel
yep
THAT was a stroke of genius, wobbly!
hehe
LMAO … spewed my juice across the table …
Do what I do. I blame my cynicism on bush.
We are all so reactive because we know that NO ONE in the Bush Crime Family gives a shit enough to even pretend to listen to us. So we scream at one another.
Would y’all consider a slight variation of pie: crunchy meringue on the bottom, homemade lemon curd, then whipped cream with some more lemon curd folded in and then fresh raspberries on the side… YUMMY. I made it last week.
Yes, I would because I can’t make pie crust to save my life.
petro-
sorry ’bout that…*g*
Christy – I’m looking at the Accuweather radar maps and it looks as if you guys in WV and OH are getting hammered – the map is red and yellow. How’re you doing?
In my comment that you are partially quoting, I said he didn’t start to pick up more black support until SC.
I disagree that it was purly identity as he wouldhave had 100% of the black vote after SC which he never has had. It sure wasn’t a problem whe Bill had 80+% of the black vote when he was running. How is that different? it wasn’t identity politics then, rather where he stood on certain issues. That is still in play and for you to suggest that blacks are not capable of choosing a candidate based on policy issues is insulting to blacks and your intelligence.
Good day, sir.
Oh no you’re not !!! *g*
Just like “logical” and the “way Condi thinks” are not synonyms.
hip wadders ho!!
I know it’s not saturday – but – gotta recipe?
Sounds tasty. PLUS is does not involve making pastry.
Except I didn’t heed my own advice because I will always challenge anyone who tries to paint any group with a large brush.
ooh now that sounds most excellent
Absolutely amazing in your denial. The Clintons are dysfunctional and were dysfunctional in their last “presidemcy”. Their strategy is so sophomoric and transparent. Try to stereotype Obama as a “black” candidate, so says the Clintons, Rendell, Ferraro, the BET guy and then vociferously deny it all. And go one step further and acuse Obama of doing it all.
What a farce of a campaign the Clintons ran. It will all be spun into a ceiling breaking, glass breaking effort on behalf of all women when it was nothing of the kind. Nuking Iran, smashing OPEC, sniper bullets, gas tax holiday. The Clintons attack the MSM and then give us a disbarred ex president, making 100 million doing introductions. I voted for the Clintons because I had to and I gave money this time around to the Clintons in the beginning because I thought they had the potential but it was the same crap.
I would have voted for them again over McCain because I had to. Now I have a choice and it remains to be seen whether “Clinton supporters” can suck it up and do what is necessary to win the White House.
Martha, Could name it the Nomination of Obama Pie and then it wouldn’t be off topic.
Did Obama just receive a sudden influx of Super Delegates, I see that MSNBC is reporting that he only needs 27.5 delegates… Last I saw yesterday, it was at 49.5…!
My brother has a friend who would say that. Cracked us up every single time.
Thanks! I think I just figured out the square root of a pie, but only chocolate so far…. carry the three… et et et
So far he has received nine supers
Good thinking there!
Yoohoo Martha!
pies are round :)
Do not judge all Clinton supporters by one person. Some are ready to work for the dem nominee, some need some time, compassion and a little TLC and some are just bat shit crazy.
mine too.
ditto.
Yep, he’s letting them seep out so the tallies in tonight’s primaries will put him over the “magic number” …
No pie for me, thanks. but I do have my ‘bullshit’ super cape on. Able to take on pure bullshit without getting it on myself *g*
me too, sorta, but i’ve been called square.
just leave me in the corner. et et et
… and some are actually Repug/Neocon trolls stirring the fire …
Any extra room under that thing?
theresa, as someone who has written a lot about polling, I have to say that I’m skeptical of this. The South Carolina primary was Jan 26.
% of black vote
California 1/11-13 SUSA Obama 61%
The problem is that there is not a lot of publicly available polling data with racial crosstabs in other states before the SC primary. Clinton definitely started out with the lions share of black support, but the shift starting happening long before SC, and a HUGE shift in SC happened right after Iowa (extrapolating from the data available, black men shift to Obama first, black women shift after Iowa.)
Georgia
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!?!
but of course. My cape,like the dem party, is a big tent. All are welcome *g*
Naw, they wouldn’t do such… would they…? Paging Rush Limp Balls…! ;-)
Um … I thought Brasilians only wore thongs …
*ducks and runs*
me too, please?
this is why i rarely buy from bulk bins of … stuff.
I do not intend to judge. I was a “Clinton supporter”.
LOL … I knew I’d get slammed for stating the obvious … ((((( Adie )))))
To paraphrase Rummy … we don’t know what we don’t know …
corn bread are square. pie are round.
really though. Why is it when blacks strongly suport a white candiate over another white candidate, there is no issue (it is policy related) but toss in a black candidate and they support him because of his color. Hell if that were the case, why didn’t Ken Blackwell win his race? Or the other times when Alan Keyes was running aginst white candidates? The stuff people pullout of their bottom orifices is amazing.
It’s what is under the cape *g*. i could catch a cold
Rats, my recipes are at home.
Here’s the Lemon Curd Recipe from the Barefoot Contessa, it’s pretty close to mine:
http://www.foodnetwork.com/foo…..86,00.html
For meringues, find a recipe that’s just sugar, egg whites, cream of tartar, and a pinch of salt.
I’ll try to find my recipes and post them some Saturday!
I miss cornbread
Yep … Fool’s Gold, as it were … *g*
do you understand the process of “winning”? Superdelegates are not ‘won’, and they can change their minds at any time. You “win” votes in primaries and caucuses — and most years, candidate actually “win” the nomination, because that is what the party requires. The idea being that if you can win a SUPERMAJORITY of the delegates available in the primaries and caucuses, you become the party’s candidate by consensus.
I know that Keith has been telling you stuff for months in between his frothing at the mouth Hillary-hatefests (hint — anyone who claims any regard for women would have stopped watching Olbermann after his demand that a MALE take Clinton into a room, and only he come out — that is all about violence against women, and it was disgusting) but that doesn’t mean its true.
This is gettin’ like a Bob Newhart therapy session.
He’s sitting right there, giving us that special look, the eyebrows, the squint. Time for Jerry the dentist to burst in.
It is the staff of life to me. Yuuuum
Thank you, my dear.
you need a nap
*spew*
I love Twain.
Me too. Well used to be. beans, rice and corn bread. Yummmm
back at cha :)
OK, no more liquid in mouth whilst reading comments
Don’t speak to me. I still can’t get the picture outta my head.
Brazilian ducks in thongs.
Brazilians duck in thongs.
Brazilians in thongs, duck.
Brazilians’ ducks in throngs.
et et et
Careful, that could be the best song in next year’s Mardi Gras …
… of the Rip Van Winkle variety …
first off, identity politics does not require 100% support.
As to your point about policies — that IS the point. Obama had nothing to offer the black community except platitudes. African AMerican voters don’t usually vote based on platitudes — they vote on a candidates RECORD and policies. That’s why I talk about Jesse Jackson, and HIS emphasis on social and economic justice — Jackson earned the black vote. “Changing the process” is NOT going to resonate with most black voters, any more than it resonates with most white voters — its just demagoguery, and most people see through it and ask “what have you done, and what do you plan to do for me?”
No problem, it was one of those inspired combinations that was just waiting to be thrown together (if you like lemony things). The meringue and berries give it great texture.
i luvs twains too.
naptime luke.
put down the light saber.
Hmm never seen a duck, let alone a brazilian duck in a thong. But I’ll let you know *g*
because he was a Republican. Black voters aren’t stupid — and they aren’t going to vote for a token Republican.
send pictures, please
Yes, but I saw make way for ducklings yesterday…mamma plus 12–count’em 12 babies, just hatched. Can’t bear to think about how many will be left by next week. They were waddling to the lake near our house. Cars stopped, people grinned. Life was wonderful, if only for a moment…
How about war. That did it for my friends.
So Ken Blackwell failed because……???? He was black and well according to your logic, the blacks should have done some of that identity politics stuff. They didn’t. So that would indicate that something else was afoot.
I understand – I cook that way too (kinda improvisationally), except it’s not always inspired!
Some pies are squared
AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
Why would that matter? You said it was identity politics. Doesn’t black trump all that policy stuff? If it doesn’t and blacks didn’t vote for Blackwell because of policies, why wouldn’t that apply to Clinton as well?
Hold on to those moments-they’re what really count.
LMAO You bet I will.
Jimmy Carter will be endorsing Obama tonight after the vote -NYT
hey! no fair! you’re using real numbers.
Token? How is he a token? he is not the only black in the party. Wouldn’t that make Barack a token too? So then why would they vote for one token but not the other?
EW is upstairs
yeah well the token thing ain’t working much for me either.
You are a very smart woman.
Do you? Clinton lost this thing back in March. You being a bright person no doubt saw it then as well. Well here we are in June and guess what? She still has lost it. As for Keith Olbermann, having never watched his show, I think it would be very hard for him to feed me anything.
Exactly Mary!
i have to see how this is going to play out. i have to tell my friends why they voted the way they did. They had told me it was because of the war vote, but they must have been deceiving themselves or unaware
Yes, isn’t that the truth. Especially on days like today.
how would i know?! ask luke. it’s his quote. (310)
truly, I’m just trying to understand the argument.
LOL I know. It was rhetorical. i don’t expect an answer.
Well, we are all just so uneducated and out of the loop that we don’t think – we just parrot our preferred candidate’s words and vote blindly. How’s that?
heaven-sent
Using Luke’s logic isn’t Hillary teh token white woman?
The Waxman cometh.
*flies upstairs*
Sounds short and sweet. I’ll let them know. They will be relieved to know that they only voted for the bi-racial guy because the yare bi-. wait, they aren’t bi-racial, they are black. hmmm back to the drawing board
one could certainly argue that.
Wow, still going strong down here, are we?
isn’t everyone presumed bi-racial, if you trace it back far enuf?
I’m sure he will return with some spiel about blacks voting record, support of black candidates vs white, etc. But I’m heading on upstairs and get some fresh air.
don’t know about that. But genetics wise, we are all of african descent.
Everyone ‘ceptin’ for us HominidsNever mind !FIrst off, South Carolina, New hampshire, and Iowa all violated the rules without sanction.
Secondly, the purpose of the sanctions (if you read the rules, this is obvious) is to ensure that those who do violate the sanctions do not benefit from them. That is why the rules AS WRITTEN AND INTENDED, provide for TWO different kinds of penalties…
1) 50% loss of delegate strength for a state that violates the sanctions Rule 20 C 1 A
2) If a candidate campaigns in a state that has been subjected to sanctions because of timing violation, s/he is ineligible for ANY delegates from that state. Rule 20 C 1 b
Alexis Herman flat out lied when she said there was no rule against the candidates campaigning in Florida and Michigan (and that lie signalled that she was in the bag for Obama). There IS a rule — 20 C 1 b s cited above. The fact that the penalties were rendered moot do not, in any way, preclude the existence of the rule.
What the RBC did was try and “send a message” about how tough they were going to be by imposing sanctions on VOTERS that the RULES never intended… and they did so for the same reason that Barack Obama took his name off the Michigan ballot — everone assumed that there would be a consensus candidate who won the necessary number of pledged delegates to lock in the nomination.
There is a way to impose a penalty while doing minimal damage to the people’s votes — shut out the super-delegates entirely (although I think that Ausman is correct with regard to DNC members, if you gotta bend/break a rule, the rule you mess with is the one that doesn’t disenfranchise voters.)
But the fact is that Florida had NO POWER over the choice of date, and the voters of that state should not have been penalized at all. Michigan, on the other hand, was in the control of Democrats.
Obama wanted to disenfranchise voters who didn’t support him — jewish voters, hispanic voters, older voters, and women. and he got his way.
Jared Diamond – Guns, Germs and Steel
good read!
just added that to my book list. thanks.
I’m aware of the republican shenanigans that led to this but seating the FL delegation had to be one that would be ‘fair’ to all sides (Clinton, Obama, voters who voted, voters who were told their vote would not count), the other states that did follow the rules, etc.) A compromise was the only way to be fair to all sides (seat the delegation and give some voice to the state). To place the blame on the debacle that started and ends with the republicans on a dem is well…your argument but I’m not buying (the logic isn’t there to support the claim of a desire from a dem to disenfranchise voters)
I’m going to move on and leave you to your ‘facts’. Wishing you much peace, seems you could use some.
;->
New Christy a couple three flights up. on Senator Kennedy.