It is really quite silly and insulting to think that Clinton would take something like secretary of health, education, and welfare in the cabinet. Nothing less than the VP slot is appropriate; it is the only way out for us.

Actually, a cabinet minister has more real power than a VP. I think I’d rather have that slot. She may not see it that way. But she might. Or full presidential support as senator to push through her health bill rather than his. Both offer more real power than the VP.

Remember, Cheney is an anomaly. Most VPs are eunuchs.

Welcome back FDL.

Seems like Obama’s cabinet will clear some D dead wood out of the Senate.

uh, Barack Obama doesn’t get to “allow” Hillary Clinton a chance for a “dignified exit”. Hillary has all the dignity she needs, and that dignity will remain intact if she stays or goes.

And I think you read it wrong….Barry is offering her the chance to shepherd HIS crap health care proposal, not hers.

One of the things that infuriates Clinton supporters is the arrogance of Obama and his campaign. Hillary Clinton does not need Barack Obama. Barack Obama desperately needs Hillary Clinton. And she knows it.

And one has to assume that she also has learned from this campaign that she is serving her country by staying in this fight.

Good morning, all. Thanks for the post, PW. The dynamics of the race are becoming very interesting now. I think the bottom line is that the Democratic party (and the country) need both Obama and HRC.

I just hope this post doesn’t degenerate into poo flinging.

I’m up late incrementally post-gig blogging, btw.

Most VPs are eunuchs.

That may be forever changed. I still think that she could be a powerful V.P., essentially the WH liaison/ramrod to Congress, charged with getting the Obama agenda passed.

Oh, and give her the chance to put together and ramrod her own health-care plan, and I think it’s all good to go.

Also, there’s a new thread upstairs.

Edwards for Attorney General!!! Wow!

“Barry is offering her the chance to shepherd HIS crap health care proposal, not hers.

One of the things that infuriates Clinton supporters is the arrogance of Obama and his campaign. Hillary Clinton does not need Barack Obama. Barack Obama desperately needs Hillary Clinton. And she knows it.”

What a fascinating point of view: the loser of the primary gets to dictate “how it’s gonna be” to the winner. I never realized that before.

PS” I called Edwards as AG months ago. I think he’d be awesome.

Will Edwards bring ‘em to justice???

“One of the things that infuriates Clinton supporters is the arrogance of Obama and his campaign. Hillary Clinton does not need Barack Obama. Barack Obama desperately needs Hillary Clinton. And she knows it.”

One of the things which infuriates Obama supporters is that any time they try to actually discuss and reason with Clinton supporters they get this kind of immature, sour grapes crap. Anyone with half a brain understands that a party which is almost evenly divided between two factions is going to need the support and cooperation of a large portion of both factions in order to achieve any larger goal.

I’m hoping that a large portion of the Clinton supporters are more mature and fair minded than your comments would indicate. If not, most of us can try to gut it through an indefinite continuing Republican reign as well as you can.

And dignity is pretty much in the eye of the beholder. As a long time supporter of both Clintons, I have become ashamed and saddened by some of their desparate behavior. I hope they can reconstruct the reputations they had previously held among most Democrats.

Get ready for four years of McSame. Barry will not beat him.

Negotiation is always important in politics. Lets get real. Clinton’s healthcare plan is better than Obama’s. And it’s the reason many have supported Clinton.

The former First Lady would get the chance to pilot Mr Obama’s reforms of the American healthcare system

I don’t think this is a great idea, because supporters like myself would not feel they are losing the fight for universal healthcare.

But hey, if supporters of Obama, want to continue the blame-game, the victorious jubileeing, well that is destructive. I would prefer that persons like Harriet Christian are wooed, since Dems have common ground: education, healthcare etc, rather than despised and written off.

Not if Obama heals the rift. Which the victor, the presumptive nominee *must* do.

Correction, @15 I think it’s a good idea. But Obama needs to adopt the Edwards/Clinton health care plan.

I stress that Obama must do this and Clinton has to respond in kind. I says this I have read too many comments in too many threads that this is all Clinton’s and her “hysterical supporters” fault. Clinton supporters like myself have been quiet, and vowed to remain quite in favor of “Democratic unity”, and yet the jubileeing and poo-flinging continues unabated from Obama supporters on the blogosphere. There is also a careless kind of chauvinism as well. That doesn’t exactly make a good case for Clinton supporters who are still extremely angry, like Harriet christian in the previous thread.

I think Lukasiak is a pretty fair numbers guy. Umm, in case you haven’t notice the Hillary’s popular vote is huge. That can’t be written off, in anyway, with any realism. There has to be a coalition. In fact writing off coaltions (social dems and commies) is what got H*tler in power.

Neither of them “has” to do this. But it would be smart.

Making Clinton VP would neutralize her, not help her. She’d wind up fading back where she had less influence.

Most cabinet posts don’t get limelight, but a specially-created Health post for her to finish what she tried to do in the early 90’s might appeal to her. And I don’t see how Obama offers this post to Clinton, or Clinton accepts it, without both of them realizing that she is going to fight hard internally for her ideas. Remember Elizabeth Edwards was pretty gung-ho on Clinton’s plan as well, and John Edwards is going to have Obama’s ear.

I don’t think Obama’s stupid enough to just say ‘nonono do it my way’ — he practices the “art of the possible” and if Clinton is given the space to pursue her ideas (and do the deal-making, compromising, etc., that will be necessary), she’ll be the best advocate for the final product.

My feeling is that Clinton would do best in the Senate, maybe as Majority Leader if Reid wants a break. She’d have the freedom of speaking up and opposing Obama when she felt it necessary, and supporting him against the Republicans when they agreed, which would be most of the time.

…”…someday this war’s gonna end….’…..

I don’t think you can find anything in my comment which disagrees with what you say. I understand that Lukasiak has done good work in the past on Bush’s ANG history, but have been astounded at the sujective and venemous nature of his posts and comments. My comment points out that we all lose by the continuing venom, but if it has to be that way, we’ll share the results equally. I am frankly tired of the you have to be nice to us, no matter what we’ve done, or we’ll give you McCain.

Huh…if Obama starts filling his Cabinet with all these senators do you think maybe we could lose our majority in the Senate? Duh!

*Noone* in this thread, or on FDL that I have seen has said “be nice to us or we’ll give you McCain.” I think some of us are quite worried that the exponential number of Hillary supporters will not be reconciled to the presumptive nominee, if relations aren’t repaired. And they do need repairing. Any therapist will tell you it’s silly to put all the blame on one side. Let’s be realistic. The vitriol has been on both sides. And if you are tired of politeness, making concessions and forming coalitions, than perhaps you are tired of politics. That’s not exactly a winning combination. Neither Obama or Hillary are Joe Lieberman, and neither are progressives. I tend to think Hillary is strongest on Healthcare and education, based on debates I have seen etc. If that strength that others see in her is discounted, it is not a winning formula for Obama, particularly because of the numbers. It’s just political reality. Heal the rift, find common ground. We’re all Democrats, most of us.

BTW. I’ve seen Lukasiak was referring to some alarming poll data. I don’t see his conclusions as “threats.”

Again, I don’t disagree with what you say. However, I am slightly puzzled that you choose to rebuke me for uncompromising hostility in comparison to the Lukasiak comment.

The Clintons need to be marginalized. Hillary Clinton will never accept a cabinet post if that meant giving up her Senate seat. The Clintons ran a despicable, disorganized and dysfunctional campaign this time around and a dysfunctional presidency the last time around. We are well rid of both of them if that is possible. And lest those sharing my views be accused of piling on, not “working together” I would note that I gave money to the Clintons this time round in the beginning in the hope that they would finally have something to say. What a dull worthless campaign they ran.

When are people finally going to catch on to the Clintons? Grifters and hustlers.

Her health care plan is better, it would be wise of him to adopt it, and she would be the perfect person to lead it.

I don’t know if I am accusing you per say. But case in point: #26. Please don’t tell me that is not a kind of norm, and then compare it to either me or Lukasiak, and ask who is willing to be reasonable (and always keep in mind that huge popular vote that Clinton has garnered.) It’s useless at this point to insult the Clintons, and their supporters by extension. Remember Clinton/Edwards did have a better healthcare plan.
I think wooing or “bending over backwards” is a very small price to pay for beating that f*cist McCain. Let’s not make the mistakes of 1930s Germany. If you agree, and I think you do, cool, but then it’s up to people like us to spread the gospel, because there is common ground between democrats. Even the most conservative antichoice dems stay dems because education is important, etc.

That’s fine. I have no problem with your comments and know you realize that a McCain victory will be equally damageing to us all. That is why I don’t take to the threats. On lthe other hand, I would think you would be willing to advise the other parties to do the same.

But McCain is a threat, and should be taken seriously (unless I am reading you wrong.) Of course I would be willing, but only once the Obama camp makes some sort of concession to the Hillary camp, that can give us Clinton supporters (Lukasiak can supply the huge number I am sure) who want to want to beat the Republikans, and who want some kind of unity, a real solid argument to make to those who feel way to teed off. If the Obama camp makes no concession (like giving Clinton charge of a universal healthcare plan), than I feel more hopeless that the rift can be healed. It would be a heckuva a lot harder to make calls for the presidential campaign to Hillary supporters, if as #26 suggests the Clintons were marginalized, or purged from the party, thereby disenfranchising the supporters.

I have nothing against that and, in fact, believed her health care plan was slightly better in that the mandatory provision seemed necessary. Of course we citizens have minute input into those agreements. I have to say that a big part of my endorsement of Obama, which did not occur until HRC made certain statments about herself and McCain in comparison to Obama, is his pragmatism. But my point is that this post started in that conciliatory fashion and the comment to which I took exception was phrased in the usual bile laden fashion. I think the Obama campaign will do what is required in recognition of HRC’s campaign and followers, but it is also incumbent upon her campaign to work for the good of the entire Democratic party. Further criticism or dire predictions about Obama campaign can only be malicious and damaging to the cause of defeating Republcians.

Further criticism or dire predictions about Obama campaign can only be malicious and damaging to the cause of defeating Republcians.

Well there are worries. And we’d all be stupid to ignore it. I think the Obama campaign has to work harder and listen harder and negotiate. I don’t see that right now. In all honesty. I see a bunch of disenfranchised Hillary supporters at the moment. If he is willing to pick up some of the good stuff about her campaign, like healthcare, I can make those phone calls with gusto. If he is willing to give Clinton some credit, I think others will come around. It really is two-way. And now it’s going to be an argument about who is making the least concession. I think Obama has the upper hand, the sceptre so to speak, so that puts him in a more powerful position to hold out an olive leaf or whatever sotospeak. Criticism of Clinton and supporters is only going to be hurtful at this point. So at least admit it goes both ways.

bobh @ 1, I agree with you. Obama cannot win the
vote of all the women who support Clinton. In fact
McShame will beat him with swiftboating alone. If
Clinton is chosen as VP running mate, McShame has
zero chance, either way, swiftboating or women
voters. Yeah, I agree, Clinton should be VP, or
suffer the consequences.