What??

Fritz Fred

Do bruises turn purple so soon?

oh good grief!

Is this for real?

These people are getting stupid and Hillary needs to tell them to stop right now. It harms the Dem party (not that she seems to care about that) and it also harms her.

I agree with her on two points… 1) we’ve only had two winners in 40 years, and, 2) the party elite does suck…! ;-)

I cannot, for the life of me, understand the mindset that drives women like this, or Geraldine Ferraro, or Harriet Christian. I can understand a rage at how Clinton was treated, but with all that, she still could have had it, but for her own mistakes.

But the rage is pretty scary.

oh, too funny – other choices of youtubes included above include “Hillary telling the truth about sniper fire.” take a look!

Nice Digg!
Thanks egr!

Can you Digg it?

Those are very dark bruises considering she was ejected shortly before this was taped. Odd.

Do we really want people like that? Mindless, incoherent ragers? At best, I say put the aikido on them.

(((CT)))) right on. Point three acitivism is good. Manhandling is not. I support the right to protest these folks do not know how to act as police. If they were allowed in what do you expect. Not good.

Oops, looks like my Digg didn’t register. Please ignore my link at 11 and use newtonusr’s link or the Digg button above.

(No.)

I feel sorry for this person. She’s been misled by the Clinton campaign.
Why did Hillary feel it necessary to bus in supporters and demonstrators for today’s meeting?

Very sad, all around.

How will we come together in November without leadership from all the defeated candidates?

Thanks Jane, Watched most of this on C-Span. Should have watched it on MSNBC missed all the after talk. But your videos are great. Can anybody tell me where to go on You tube to watch some of this stuff. I’m pretty much a novice when it comes to looksing up stuff on the net. I have my blogs and thats it. LOl Grandma has a problem.

Peeps like this can just take their idiocy elsewhere, IMO. They can be replaced, by orders of magnitude.

I truly believe that Hillary is going to be ignored. Don’t see how they can do anything else. If she wants to campaign for Obama, fine, otherwise she is going to be shut out.

I am happy to let their energy flow by, but somehow I don’t think they’ll ever feel heard; they’ll always look outward for the source of their problems, and then blame it all on Obama.

At least:

1) she didn’t claim to have been bruised by Obama supporters
2) we can all agree that the party leadership really does suck

Still, the idea that Obama should get zero votes/delegates for Michigan reflects a truly Bushian level of foul play. I wonder if Tanya Harding was one of her former physical education students.

Oh, Jane. I love the music on your clip.

I would rather not have her campaign. I don’t trust her.

Bravo MP !

Where were these people last year when the DNC ruled the delegations wouldn’t be seated? Why wait to protest that two states (that these women Jane taped do not live in) would have less the full slate of delegates at the convention?

I don’t understand them.

((((( Loo Hoo )))))

How many days ’til Wednesday ? *g*

Expediency, pure and simple. Were the tables turned, Hillaristas would be loudly and haughily arguing the reverse.

I think it’s very easy to view this as if the shoe were on the other foot…what if this were an Obama supporter? Would we say she was scary and rage-filled? No. Would we contemplate the length of time it takes bruises to turn purple? I don’t know…but I don’t think so.

Operation Chaos…or…Operation Stupid…or Operation Obama’s a scary Muslim in disguise..or…Obama is a scary black man.

I don’t know.

What I do know is that the primary rules, and the committee, etc., are not democratic.

Let the people vote on whatever day they need to vote. Then count the vote, and ban all electronic voting machines.

Scrap the electoral system all together for all parties.

I truly believe that Hillary is going to be ignored. Don’t see how they can do anything else. If she wants to campaign for Obama, fine, otherwise she is going to be shut out.

I saw an article a day or two ago (sorry no link) about how Clinton would be greeted and treated in the Senate after her campaign. Wih her ongoing scorched earth approach, I wonder if even the Senate’s clubby atmosphere will be enough to overcome the bad feelings she is engenderng. These protests at the Rules meeting today remind me of the Republican “riot” during the 2000 Florida recount, just an overt attempt to force an outcome rather than play by the rules.

Where were these people last year when the DNC ruled the delegations wouldn’t be seated?

they with Hillary, saying the elections were for naught

the question is why/how have these people been activated since???

they volunteer to appear as an argument created as a last resort… Hillary didn’t think she needed rule breakers, MI or FL until, well, she did….

they are rule breakers… now very vocal rule breakers

Don’t underestimate the influence of the Limbaugh effect.

Hi Megpiepie1 (is there more than one megpiepie, really?)

When I want to find something on YouTube I just type the thing and then youtube, like *”Hillary” Youtube*

Usually the google serves it up – someone more savvy with YouTube might be able to assist you more.

Welcome to the Lake. :D

FWIW, HRC is not acting appreciably different than Teddy Kennedy acted in ‘80.

Given how that turned out, it is not a particular positive action but there are precedents for it.

My thinking too.

Dean, Edwards, Kennedy, Dodd, Richardson, Biden, GORE.

Are you saying that these women are ditto-ettes?

I see their anger, and I recognize it; it is a very universal anger many women carry.

I think they are fighting passionately for what they truly believe is right for their country, and applaud them for it.

That’s what it is all about. Right?

I can’t pass judgement without seeing how much of a fight she put up.

I don’t want Hillary — and her legions of supporters — shut out. I want them supporting, working, canvassing, phonebanking, and VOTING for the Democratic nominee for President.

How to get this schoolteacher and her cohort to do that is Barack Obama’s summer puzzle.

And all of ours, actually.

Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, WEDNESDAY!!!

Love ya, Petro.

I know it sounds cruel, but I think the SD’s are letting Hillary and her supporters implode. The supporter above is an example of that. It is obvious to me that a lot of SD’s(for whatever reason), don’t like the Clintons. The problem is that despite that, they don’t want to piss them off. Or make mortal enemies(see the Judas comment by Carville). It is obvious to me that they hope that Obama will cross over the line with out the remaining SD’s help(not counting a specific few like Reid and Pelosi). I believe just enough will back Obama by Tuesday night so he can declare victory.

Another aspect of this that I do not see discussed is would Clinton and her supporters be making the same arguments now if her and Obama’s positions were reversed? What I find disturbing in the Clinton campaign is how it uses so many tactics that we have come to associate with the Republicans: win at all costs, one rule for us, another for you, etc.

And caucuses are too free for all. Primaries, please.

I don’t think Obama would be out there screaming about injustice etc if he was trailing by 200 delegates. whatever the number is now.

The supporters are not even listening to reason. They just mad. And Hil is fanning the flames with her “count the votes” stuff instead of honoring the process to select the party candidate.

Hil has damaged her credibility so badly that I’m going to question anything presented by any of her supporters.

Except that Teddy has made amends(for the most part). How Hillary behaves from here on out will be telling. Will she be as classy as Don Fowler was today?

Sorry, was saying that the powers that be in the party are simply not going to know what to do with her. I hope she will campaign for Obama and that her supporters will get behind him. Whatever these women are mad about, Obama didn’t do it.

wow – do I sense romance in the air?

Not going to happen … just letting you know … and hi, btw

someone made a comment earlier about settling this now and letting Hil’s supporters “mourn”. Perhaps this acting out is part of that.

The other problem is … if she was anyone else .. she would have been Huckabee’d after TX(because while Obama has not clinched .. the math heavily favored him) .. if not before .. it is only because of who she is .. that the media even covers her

Do you like the Texas Two-Step PriCaucus?

True but Teddy did not make amends until after Carter lost the election to Reagan.

He fought all the way up to and through the convention when the delegate count was no where near as close as this one is. He fought the rules committee and credential committee. He tried to get pledged delegates to flip from Carter to him.

I’m not saying what HRC is doing is correct and good, just that there is a precedence where a Democratic Party icon took a whole lot of actions that helped submarine the changes of the party’s nominee.

Right! She keeps spending the money and keeps campaigning because she can. It’s so compulsive.

*sniff* … I feel betrayed honored … *g*

when people no longer care what someone else has to say it is a time for the party to close down.

when people can no longer can offer a question and have it be received as geniune.

when people can no longer offer an opinion and want a differing opinion back.

when people can no longer offer an environment where these things are considered normal, then how can you ask why do we not agree………the you have teh nerve to ask, why there is war?

i read the comments and i think, and think again, and then don’t comment at all. which thing to comment on first, i forsake thee………..

i’ll wait for everyone to get out of whatever sludge house you’ve entered into. the lake used to be a clear spring to swim into, not anymore. how come? well, how come?

election posers?

opinionated asshats?

people pleasers?

people with a problem not able to be expressed in their real lives?

an agenda not being addressed elsewhere>

well, whatever it is, i’ll wait it out until it gets back to public discourse, the kind that enlightened my mind and inspired me, until then, it’s just crap.

those of you who don’t fit this description, you know who you are.

back to radio silence, many are glad, no conscience to remind you of what you have become.

it’s sad.

Maybe, maybe not, but the fact is the Obama supporters were NOT disruptive and didn’t need to be thrown out. Apparently the campaign very specifically asked their supporters to be respectful.

And for me, yeah, if this was an Obama supporter acting like a butt head and then like a (TRex has an acronym for it, right?)I actually would be calling BS on their behavior.

FunnyD

Ideological romance, jacqrat.

Jane, I’m thrilled with the bang-bang video blogging from the scene! Really great job you’re doing there!

they’re not going to mourn, they’re going to work for McCain … I think you’re all underestimating this … It’s bigger than Hillary, I think there’s going to be a new women’s movement built from this … I’ve been reading the blogs of young woman that are horrified by the violent, misogynistic language used against hillary and her supporters and I don’t think they’ve really dealt with this blatant sexism before. I believe we’re entering a new phase in feminism …

Not that kind of Love … the kind that lasts … you know, friendship …

I have resisted going to broadband so youtubes are usually beyond me, but I have to admit that Hillary’s Downfall is a guilty pleasure. *g*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6Lstkiexhc

You are my idol, Bob. What can I say.

Makes me dizzy.

it is only because of who she is .. that the media even covers her

That, and to portray us as disorganized.

and jane thx for these vignettes … I was supposed to be there but I company this weekend

No, I’m saying to be suspicious of everything….yeah…that’s what I’m saying…be suspicious of everything that happens during an election. If people had been more vigilant in 2000, things might have been different now…

There is such a thing as an “agitator”. I don’t know if the woman is an “agitator” or not…but I do know that these people disrupted the committee hearing today…

Rush Limbaugh, just for one example, has asked his listeners to “agitate” to influence the democratic process. In fact, he asked his listeners to actually “riot”…He is inciting “riots” at the Democratic Convention in Denver….and what did they shout????? Denver, Denver, Denver….

I’ve been to this rodeo before….maybe the lady was for real…maybe not..if she was for real and was bruised in that way, she needs to take legal action.

The problem is that it is really hard to tell just off the cuff…especially, with the fanaticism….

I’m a woman, but I sure as hell am not going to riot because a woman doesn’t get elected. I want the best person in the job. Whether they have a prick or not is not a factor…They can’t rule with their genitals for Chrisssakes….that is ridiculous.

Just sayin’.

Petechiae are small viens that can easily bruise, it happens almost instantly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petechia

Hey … who’re you calling an idiot ?!! *g*

I think we’re beginning to see the birth of the third wave of feminist movements, I”m just sorry I can’t call betty friedan up to confer with her .. it’s beyond hillary, believe me

Um.. a new women’s movement… that votes for McCain?

What…*unt, Trollops for McCain????

They’ve got a rude awakening…”my friends”…

I think this community started out to be a diverse group of democrats. I supported Hillary until Bosnia. Many Edwards supporters went to Obama, along with other folks including Clinton supporters.

I don’t understand your disappointment, dmac.

That’s interesting…(not snark, promise). it’s too bad if they think they will find a home with mccain. perhaps they will pull a lieberman.

I can’t stand it. I hate it when people play victim when they are not winning. When people choose with their own free will a different outcome than the one the “victim” wants. If the voters truly matter, then the candidate will respect the outcome and the decision of all the voters, not just her supporters or whatever.

I’m glad you used the word “birth,” because that’s a word those young women will come to know better after McCain’s next two Supreme Court appointments.

There was real effort by good people in this meeting today to reach a compromise and unify the Party. The demonstrators that were chanting Denver, Denver, Denver were rude, sophomoric and acting like spoiled adolescents. They interupted the panel and disrupted a well run proceeding. Harold Ickes was the only panelist that was equally beligerent. No one got what they asked for. It’s called compromise. It’s time for the party to being to come together behind the nominee and concentrate on November. The time for acting like children is over.

opinionated asshats?

Present.

Hi dmac. Evening all.

If these women screaming with very ugly expressions on their faces are the new feminists I will gladly NOT join. Been working for womens’ causes for a long, long time and I’m sorry but I just don’t approve of their behavior.

1,859 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

Let’s take stock of what we have seen today and try and make some sense of it in the larger context for ALL of us regular folks who hafta live with the consequences of bad political decisions and bad politicians.

First the fake protests in the room by agents provocateurs that I believe was staged and orchestrated by Harold Ickes and “she who should forever remain nameless”. My first thought as the afternoon wore on and the M*Clinton crowd got less and less civil was “gee, this is gettin ta look a lot like the Florida recount”. Indeed, the M*Clinton strategy for the last three-four months has been to splinter the majority who have been honestly lookin for compromise to satisfy some perceived grievances on the part of the losin’ side and then isolate the remainin’ base of the winning side in order to win a rump procedure based on a flawed political process. That is, in fact, the fascist strategy that we have seen implemented since Murry Chotiner and Richard Nixon in the late 1950’s in the US and, of course perfected in 1932 by the Nazis at the end of Wiemar.

Second, the refusal of the M*Clinton faction to accept a decision of the majority in a democratic process after proclaimin’ their willingness to submit to that self-same democratic process now defines the losin’ candidate and her remainin’ supporters. Make no mistake, this is the end of the M*Clintons as a legitimate force in the Democratic Party…Mr. and Mrs. Bill now lead a faction, an amorphous group the remnants of which are willin’ to take to the streets and attempt to create mob chaos by provocative acts of even physical violence against their opponents.

Finally, we have seen the true character of Mrs. M*Clinton and the tragedy of this revelation lies with those who were convinced to follow her to the bitter end and are left isolated in the debris of the fight after havin’ been used and tossed away by their megalomaniac leader. We have witnessed a titanic battle between the old Democratic Party power brokers and their corporate bosses and a “new” Democratic Party decentralized and nationalized power base. Today marks the end of the old and the beginnin’ of the new. To those M*Clinton supporters who find themselves isolated,alone and leaderless on the field, your brothers and sisters in the new Democratic Party stand with hands outstretched, bring your values and politics home and leave your old leader to withdraw to her friendly confines of multi-millionaire retirement.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THE FINAL BATTLE HAS BEGUN!!

Petechiae are small red spots on the skin that occur when small vessels break. The discoloration accompanying bruising is usually referred to as a hematoma.

ROFL … Comic Gold !

see my comments along the way, it’s way bigger than hillary … it’s that pent up anger you get when you’re an older woman and you’ve worked your ass off … and the boss comes in with some young guy that does not have the time on the job you do, and does not have the knowledge of the job you do, and only wears that little smirk that the boss likes, and then the boss says, this is your new boss, and you gotta train him … and he makes a lot more money than you do, and he never really learns to do the job, just stays there long enough to get enough creds for the NEXT job he can schmooze his way into … and your stuck there, with your low wages and all that skill and knowledge just waiting for that next manchild the boss brings in to put over you ….

and then all the boys make those snide remarks about you … your body, your sexuality, everything …

believe me, it’s a third wave of feminism … read the blogs of the 20 something women … they’re beginning to see the violent remarks from their boyfriends … and they’re beginning to think, wow, maybe mom and her friends didn’t solve it all yet …

believe me, it’s bigger than Hillary …

Thanks twain. May I sit with you?

I don’t support disingenuous gameplayers who play with their supporters emotions. male or female.

Me neither, Twain. It is pitiable.

I’m not saying what HRC is doing is correct and good, just that there is a precedence where a Democratic Party icon took a whole lot of actions that helped submarine the changes of the party’s nominee.

And therein is the cautionary tale.

FunnyD

“First the fake protests in the room by agents provocateurs that I believe was staged and orchestrated by Harold Ickes and “she who should forever remain nameless”.

Ding Dong, Bingo, High Five, Full House, Royal Flush.

They said they were going to do it….helloooo Theatrics…BS….

You nailed it Norske.

I agree it was putzy a disruptive protest bussed in seems inapropriate. A deliberate embarrassment of Hillary’s party. But is it a big deal? What about the party that regularly protests at Democratic conventions…LaRue?

it ain’t mc cain … it’s the disrespect, it’s bigger than hillary … believe me

Hey LS, you stole my slogan ! *g*

You saved it!!! bwahahahahahaha! thanks. I needed that. I was going with Thelma and Louise.

Does anyone know who the people were who threw these women out of the meeting?

Can I suggest a title … “Stepford Wives For McCain”

Brutal! Funny, too.

bless you, Teddy.

I’ve tried so hard to keep out of this. But.

Hillary supporters, whatever you think of Hillary, demographically, have gotten screwed. They’ve endured class hatred, gender hatred, being tossed under the bus for whatever the Moderates are pushing for, and thirty years of watching their lives and the prospects for their children declining with practically no-one pushing back.

If they’ve decided that she’s the answer, then her opponent hasn’t done a good job of convincing him that he’s the answer (and I have to say, I’ve seen a great deal of casual contempt from his supporters that hasn’t helped).

There are an awful lot of people in this society getting screwed. A substantial number of them think she’s more likely to help them than he is. The answer is not to talk about what idiots they are. The answer is (since he wants to help the people who have been left behind, right?) to tell them how he wants to help them.

I see them both as roughly the same on the issues. I want a Democrat to win this race. If it’s going to be him, he’s going to have to tell her supporters that he wants them and understands their problems.

That being the case, it doesn’t serve him or his message at all for his supporters or his campaign to do a sack dance on her supporters.

Please. This is an election. It’s not a hydrant.

jayt at 76

well, at least you admit it, and that’s the kind of company i keep.

Good thing they didn’t try to take her chair!

I grew up on British humor – Norman Wisdom, The Carry On Gang, Benny Hill – so I love this stuff !

Very classy, thank you!

The compliant ones, maybe. The angry ones? I dunno…

yes.

anyone suggest this might be a republican setup?

does this women have a backround?

ina May 31st, 2008 at 6:59 pm
74
In response to Dakinikat @ 69 (show text)
I’m glad you used the word “birth,” because that’s a word those young women will come to know better after McCain’s next two Supreme Court appointments.

…. veto proof majority in the senate …. i know that’s in the axelrod memo about what to threaten women with, Scotus, I only have those 6 words… VETO PROOF MAJORITY IN THE SENATE … that is where my time and money is going.

Sorry….

It’s a hellovva slogan!!

I especially think that *unt part….makes the shackles rise up…must include that most heinous description….

will they listen?

Very eloquent, Julia. thanks.

i really don’t think so (that it’s repub). else the clinton people would have been all over it. hil is going all the way to the convention.

you can’t even get Russ Feingold to vote No on a Bush Supreme. Good luck with that.

Yes, LS did. And I have my suspicions also.

I see them both as roughly the same on the issues. I want a Democrat to win this race. If it’s going to be him, he’s going to have to tell her supporters that he wants them and understands their problems.

That being the case, it doesn’t serve him or his message at all for his supporters or his campaign to do a sack dance on her supporters.

In all fairness to Obama, he has reached out to her supporters… At what juncture has he not tried to…?

The funny thing is that Repugs still support someone who’d use that language so readily in public …

osido May 31st, 2008 at 6:59 pm
73
In response to Dakinikat @ 59 (show text)
That’s interesting…(not snark, promise). it’s too bad if they think they will find a home with mccain. perhaps they will pull a lieberman.

I can’t stand it. I hate it when people play victim when they are not winning. When people choose with their own free will a different outcome than the one the “victim” wants. If the voters truly matter, then the candidate will respect the outcome and the decision of all the voters, not just her supporters or whatever.

Again, i respectfully disagree … it’s bigger than ‘playing victim when they are not winning” …

they don’t see this as the decision of voters, they think the process was co-opted by the DNC, I think if folks had known what the scheduling and the discounting of caucuses over primaries, and states like South Carolina over states like Penn, they would’ve screamed bloody murder, They only see the results, they think they’ve been railroaded … they do not see this as a democratic process, they see this as backroom deals to get through a candidate that a few segments want, they see this as McGovern redux

I guess I’m missing something. We all accept and know that this woman is in the wrong? That she is lying? Faking? Her bruises not real or gotten in some other way and conveniently trotted out?

I don’t get this. Very disturbing response.

Not this one, I don’t think. Sounded genuine to me.

No kind of feminism would ever support John McCain being in a position to appoint justices just like Roberts and Alito, as he has promised, to the Supreme Court.

It might be a movement of disappointed women, of a wide range of ages, but none should call it feminism. There will have to be a different name for it.

very succinctly and eloquently put …

if hillary had gone after mccain through this campaign instead of obama she would probably be our candidate today

that’s where she made her mistake, she made this a democrat vs democrat contest when it should have been a “who can do the best job embarrasing mccain” contest

right now, that person is obama

Likely so. In which case it’s important to knock down the framing that she would be the de facto nominee if something happened to Obama’s candidacy. More people voted against than for her, what’s to stop delegates not pledged to her from caucusing and selecting another candidate to back. Edwards. Gore. Another….

I have no sympathy for her, I think she’s been wretched in manipulating her supporters in this latest fracas. There is honor in losing. None in being a loser.

the women suggested if obama is the canidate mccain will win

this does not sound like a democrat,..this is why the questions

My wife fell off her Bike and bruised her leg. By the time she got home (under 10 minutes) it was purple and swollen …

Hear Hear !

Well Said ! She also had political hacks running her campaign. It was badly run and financially is apparently a disaster. Some of these angry people should take on her managers.

OK I see we disagree. just need to add that hillary had no problem with the process until Obama started pulling ahead…

I am truly not trying to be a last word freak here. :]

Well, now that I agree with. The whole thing about a compromise is that neither party gets just what they want, but they come to some damn agreement and get on to business.
We must do this.
I would ask that we try not to call people crazy, insane, or haters because that simply will not draw them toward any fellow feeling.

at this point, I’d say that having had the advantage of unbalanced coverage in the media, he should make the effort to reach out to the people who have been marginalized.

We’re all furious. This has been been ugly enough on all sides that many of the people who are angry on all sides have a right.

I’d really like us to be furious at the same people in the fall.

Exactly e pluribus Unum or united we stand devided we fall, Be interesting to hear from Hillary if she asked them to disrupt.

i’ll point to my 81

the women suggested if obama is the canidate mccain will win

perris, I usually agree with you but not in this case.

Suggesting a candidate may not win does not mean you are not a member of party. I have serious doubts about Obama’s electability, as well as Clinton’s electability. I am allowed to question that. This is my party, and I’m seeing a lot of stupid moves.

If she said I’m voting for McCain, I could see people saying – well that is the wrong decision for a democrat. But even so – manhandling her?

woulda coulda shoulda

But she was too much like him on a lot of things, so had to go after Obama.

Not I. I don’t know, except she’s distraught and angry and all those things we feel when we’re sure we’ve lost something we hope for.

I guess I view all this as a sign of a sea change–almost generational but not quite. Norske said it earlier and I’ll say it again. It is a changing of the guard in the Democratic party. It happens in political parties, organizations, businesses, families. It’s usually wrenching and painful for those who are invested in the “old guard” and it sometimes happens in surprising ways. But it’s inevitable.

I’m not specifically oriented to any particular candidate, but…

“then her opponent hasn’t done a good job of convincing him that he’s the answer…”

I’ve heard that over and over again in the media….Obama is not “closing the deal”…what’s wrong with him….or “why can’t he convince the white working class voters that he’s the right candidate”….

Things like that.

It is not Obama’s “job” to “convince” people who have very extreme views about his run for the “job”. He is continually being portrayed by the media as Muslim…an Hamas supporter…a Farrakhan supporter…Black Power…Not American….un-Patriotic….

Considering the accusations, both blatant and subtle, against this candidate…no other candidate has ever had to endure such spin and twist about who he is.

It is not “his” job to undo the prejudice and the spin.

If, on the otherhand, he is able to subdue and undo the prejudice and spin, which he has been successful at so far….

We are witnessing something…big.

“We all”?

Don’t deign to speak for me. I have to have bilateral skepticism for anything that shows up pronto on YouTube.

Maybe her bruises are in fact real. Maybe she was damn sure she was gonna get them. Who knows?

Who cares? When protests go glandular people get hurt. That’s why you rarely see people walking out of courtrooms with bruises (unless they physically challenge the authority of the rule of law within the chambers).

I think she’s been wretched in manipulating her supporters

I can feel sympathy for her supporters (some of them). Hillary is proving to be very irresponsible and not showing leadership, just ME ship. It’s awful.

I know I keep saying it, but I’m so frustrated with her obstructionism and drama. Ickes is just the icing on the cake.

And I reserve my right to be an opinionated asshat. This woman has been silenced too long to have some moralizing above it all comment stop her from stating her mind.

1,859 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Julia:

“…he’s (Obama) going to have to tell her supporters that he wants them and understands their problems.”

Bless your heart Citizen, but the fight is over, Obama and the rest of the Democratic Party who represent all those perceived “class and gender hatreds” and then some are movin’ on and the politics and political solutions to those problems that you and yours see as somehow exclusively yours are carried by the majority of the Democratic Party for whom Obama has been selected as leader. You can join this movement and in the process you can learn that you have been bamboozled, lied to and taken advantage of by an amoral, valueless politician.

No dear it is not for Obama to prove anything to you, you have one moment here to accept the fact that the majority of your brothers and sisters in the Democratic Party share your hurts and your desires for justice and are movin’ on to a new political reality with or without you!

KEEP THE FAITH, YOU’RE LUCKY YOU STILL HAVE A CHOICE!!

Except she likes McCain. Her husband has told us so. It would be a very respectful election about issues, except for the Iraq war, of course, where we would be completely neutralized due to her AUMF votes and non-recantation of same.

You know me…I’m always suspicious…

I want 9/11 independently investigated….especially in light of Scotties “words”.

why can’t people get it into their heads that it’s all about what someone knows/thinks to be personally true to them? and that can’t be changed,,,,,,,,nor should it be asked to be.

that’s it…….that’s what it is…….

what they know to be true…….to them. to thine own self be true, isn’t that what we all keep saying?

it’s gonna be different as how many flowers are in bloom…….yet you say only roses have the right to bloom……only pansies deserve to tell the truth about color.

when are people going to realize that noone likes to be told what to do, noone likes to be told they are stupid, noone likes to feel that they are bein manipulated? obama people feel that hillary was manipulating them, hillary people feel that they were manipulated…..

how’s that gonna win?

i see comments here that i think, i am so glad that person is not in my life, that they are only on the internet, i see others and i think, why are they falling for that bullshit over time they are smarter than that.

twenty doctoral thesis could be written from these comment pages, and i’m not about to write them all, but i will say that it pains me to think of all of the things i COULD have learned if not for the crap that has been expressed over and over again, all over these pages.

and when true discourse was expressed, like mine was a few weeks ago, and got slammed without concern, i wonder what discourse has become………..not any word i ever knew.

not worth commenting about is what i figured.

i keep thinking ”don’t have a clue”………what a waste.

Wow. Hill was mistreated so we’ll go over to McCain and the neocon party! Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. And, yes, the sexism from the MSM has been blatant. And the racism only a bit less so. So let’s have a contest about which group has been victimized worse…waste of time. Injustice isn’t a zero sum game, ya know?!

So, TeddySF, how do we do outreach? Is it as simple as starting by believing that these particular HRC supporters are an extreme minority that get a lot of attention by being loud?

FunnyD

I guess I don’t agree that just under fifty percent of the Democratic party are extremists.

Yes, as the candidate for the Democratic party, it is Obama’s job to convince Democratic voters to vote for him. We’re the inclusive party. That’s why I belong to us.

Yup…She’s a Lieberman supporter, and a McCain supporter, and an AUMF supporter, and a Kyl-Lieberman supporter…

What else does anyone need to know.

I couldn’t agree more with that, I was an Edwards supporter early on… Now, he definitely articulated an excellent message with his ‘Two Americas’ rhetoric! Obama hasn’t used the same rhetoric but he’s come closer than Hill!

“We all”?

Don’t deign to speak for me. I have to have bilateral skepticism for anything that shows up pronto on YouTube.

Maybe her bruises are in fact real. Maybe she was damn sure she was gonna get them. Who knows?

Who cares?

It’s just that you had responded like this:

I cannot, for the life of me, understand the mindset that drives women like this, or Geraldine Ferraro, or Harriet Christian. I can understand a rage at how Clinton was treated, but with all that, she still could have had it, but for her own mistakes.

But the rage is pretty scary.

Do we really want people like that? Mindless, incoherent ragers? At best, I say put the aikido on them.

So yes, I was including you in the “we all”; and I was trying to put myself in there too, implying that I too could rush to judgement. But in fact, I find the overall response, including yours, really troubling.

There has been a lot of women training managers that earn a lot more money. True enough. But that’s not what this election is about.

Yes, actually, it is. Not to me personally, because I’m a yellow dog. But nobody owes anyone their vote, and it is definitely the role of the candidate to convince his own party to vote for him.

I appreciate your fervor, but this is an election.

“and when true discourse was expressed, like mine was a few weeks ago, and got slammed without concern”
_________

What? You have a lock on that? “Truth”?

Pul-eeeze.

And spare us the undergrad Phil 102 Subjectivist Fallacy schtick. Only in academia are all things “relative.”

Except for Tenure. You do not fuck with Tenure.

…because I’m a yellow dog.

Good on you, Julia.

It just seems republican. I’ve always thought the Clintons were republican lite since the gay nineties. see wiki definition of neo liberalism.

Do you even know what “aikido” means?

I think what it all comes down to is that this was Hillary’s election to lose and she did. Before the campaign even started I thought that she would be the nominee but she blew it and none of us can fix that.

A defensive martial arts posture, right?

as the candidate for the Democratic party, it is Obama’s job to convince Democratic voters to vote for him.

Why should he have to convince members of his own party?
I’m asking because, even though I didn’t vote for him in my state’s primary, and I think he’s pretty conservative for a Democrat, I’ll vote for him because he’s better than McSame.

I’m not that every democrat is on the same page with that.

I’m sorry, I’m just saying something to the effect that…to assume that a “bi-racial” man…must be the “one” to “convince”….an historically white electorate to see his electability differently than they have for hundreds of years…

That is quite a “job” for Obama to have.

He’s done pretty damn well, if you ask me.

Excellent article in today’s Globe and Mail about why Hillary lost.
Will look for linkie..

Do you even know what “aikido” means?

Have you been drinking koolaid? Or some kind of aggressive caffeine drink that has you all hopped up and aggressive over the distance of the tubes?

Julia, would you like to see an Obama/Clinton ticket?

Using the adversary’s inherently off-balance negative energy to neutralize them without harming them or yourself.

LOL!!!

I rest my case.

People who have low vitamin C, or who are on coumadin (a popular drug that disables the platelets which form the clotting mechanism in the blood) often have bruises like this. They can get them from someone taking hold of their hand a little too strongly – not even with intent to harm or hurt. This woman is in the age category where she might be taking this – and yes – the bruises show up almost instantly, they get really big, and dark, really fast.
So I don’t doubt the bruises. What I have a problem with is the fact that they were disrupting the meeting. She said the Obama people were chanting too and they didn’t get thrown out – but she also said the Obama people were “downstairs”, that is, I assume, not inside the meeting room. Big difference.

Like I said, you can join us or you can stand by yourself in the rain, proclaimin’ how you are misunderstood and abused by the majority of your brothers and sisters who make up the Democratic Party. You can stand there but you will be left behind…we are movin on to confront the injustices you selfishly clutch to your bosom as your own. Like I said, we are movin’ on with you or without you…you made your agruments today and the majority presented you with compromise you can accept or reject but don’t hold your breath for anyone to come kissin’ your ass to get your vote.

Where Clinton’s Campaign Went Wrong

I think it is worth a read.

I wish that everyone here could be satisfied with the outcome of the primaries but that is not to be. I wanted to vote for Edwards here in Arizona but he dropped out before that primary. Voted for Obama instead. I don’t know how anyone can say for sure it is a woman’s turn or it is African American’s turn to be President. Hell, Native American have been here longer and were disinfranchised longer than any other group when it came to voting, maybe it is their turn.

To me eiher of the two Dems would a great deal better than the weak piss the rethug brand is putting up. But it will take the efforts of everyone to bury those thugs. So whatever the outcome of this primary season I say We hang together or we hang separately.

The crux of martial arts is to win without fighting … roots in yoga/meditation, of which I am … *cough* … somewhat of an expert …

Sort of bizarre, Bobby G. I suppose you think that is a kind of party building technique. A way to make sure that things are changed for the better in the fall.

Keep it up bro.

Actually, a completely defensive Martial Art, not just a posture, I was trained in Aikido… It is expressly a defensive art utilizing the aggression of one’s opponent against them… Essentially rechanneling the aggression back…!

Hi Carolyn –

You have combined a few comments – your assemblage isn’t any one voice, but a few.

Aikido, FYI, is a japanese martial art that translates, literally, as the way of spiritual harmony. An aikidoist never attacks, and never directly opposes another’s energy, but rather lets their opponents energy work against them.

I was the one who said the rage is pretty scary, and it is. I’m sure the woman has her reasons – I just can’t find my way to understand them.

Hillary is a McCain supporter. Here are some vids for the angry older female voter to consider before they switch to St. John

young girl on Ledbetter

mccain questioned on terms of endearment

The truly sad part in all this is that the Clinton supporters don’t realize the extent to which they’ve been manipulated for HRC’s gain. This isn’t about “fairness” or any other noble concept, it’s about HRC threatening the DNC with a massive walkout if she doesn’t get her way. She’s trying to strong-arm the party and using these people as unwitting goons.

So it’s Obama and Howard Dean’s fault that America is an extremely sexist country, and they should be scolded and punished indefinitely for institutional sexism?

I’m with you.

i give up

i can’t believe what this place has become. and apparently noone has noticed. or is saying anything about it.

i will not live or think in a cesspool.

some of y’all are better than that.
you’re settling for that?????????

the rest? grind your own corn.

i’ll be back later when the thoughts aren’t so required to be of a certain frame of mind.

what a waste.

you grow and become disillusioned, that’s a part of it, but i came here and had high hopes, invested time and money, now, just opinions, no/rarely links, and i could get better.

i am beyond disgusted with fdl. and so disappointed in pups that jumped on the harrigan bandwagon…..

not what this republic is about, hope you realize that. all the things we say we are about, you all are trouncing into the ground, and noone is saying shit about it………

that’s ok? well, not with me.

no, not with me.

Turning aggressive energy back towards the attacker

*ack* … Damn Canucks stirring up the Hornet’s nest agin … *g*

There are an awful lot of people in this society getting screwed. A substantial number of them think she’s more likely to help them than he is. The answer is not to talk about what idiots they are. The answer is (since he wants to help the people who have been left behind, right?) to tell them how he wants to help them.

Thank you, Julia. You said it so much better than I could have.

Jukebox needs a quarter

Damn you CT!

Lotta peeps were calling bullshit on her bruises. I did not. But I have no way of knowing whether she “earned” them, intentionally or otherwise. Like I said, when you refuse viscerally to accept a process outcome, you may get marked up.

One thing to note about all the RBC controversy – there were 16 Hillary supporters on that committee and only 8 Obama supporters. If the Hillary people think they got such a raw deal – why are they blaming Obama? Looks like Hillary’s own supporters voted for this compromise?

By hook or by crook.

Count on it.

Thanks – saved to read later.

Yes I did see that yours were the original comments Mutant Poodle. I tried to surround them with quotes separately, but sorry for not attributing them to you.

Never studies akido, but did study tae kwon do for several years. Defense first, always, but a martial art nevertheless.

Norske – question please:
You have said many times that you wouldn’t vote for Hillary.
How does that serve Progressive values, especially if she’s the nominee?

No sh*t…

Nice to see you are above all that.

Bom dia pups. I went back and rad the previous post and wow it was a challenging day. i was out and about doing the work of my party and registering new voters for November. Had lots of ‘new’ naturalized citizens and first time voters signing up. Afterwards we went rollerskating and enjoyed the beautiful weather.

I can’t imagine what the fallout is going to be but this talk of a new wave of feminism is based on what? I have watched a few of her supporters talk about sexism and reverse racism so this new wave will be one of white women?

I agree with your point, I am distressed that anyone was manhandled at our covention and am looking for some reason

Thank you for your thoughts about the bruises. i accept what you say and accept what the video lady says – there are two smaller spots in the right place for two other fingers holding her arm. My skepticism is that my bruises take a day or two to show up. Thanks.

I think her campaign compromised.

LOL … ((( MP )))

My girls are going for Purple Belts soon …

Like I said, you can join us or you can stand by yourself in the rain, proclaimin’ how you are misunderstood and abused by the majority of your brothers and sisters who make up the Democratic Party. You can stand there but you will be left behind…we are movin on to confront the injustices you selfishly clutch to your bosom as your own. Like I said, we are movin’ on with you or without you…you made your agruments today and the majority presented you with compromise you can accept or reject but don’t hold your breath for anyone to come kissin’ your ass to get your vote.

Losing strategy Norske, and why this party wants to consume its own I can’t imagine. It’s not like Hillary supporters are comprised of a disgruntled few. We’re talking about 50% of people who voted in primaries. Might want to rethink that strategy.

By the way, isanyone else disturbed that this person is teaching health & phys ed?

I think that’s exactly what it is. You notice the first woman mentioned a “black” man. Made me sick.

I bruise very easily and fairly quickly myself.

I understand her anger. I just think it’s misplaced. I’ve seen and read from a number of older (>40 years-old) women who complain that they’ve spent their entire lives watching younger men get the jobs that they wanted. In many cases, I have no doubt that flagrant sexism was the cause. However, I don’t think that’s what’s happened here. I think that the younger man beat the older woman because she expected to win the job by early February, and she had no plan for the rest of the month. The younger man had a well-organized plan for all of February, and he clinched the job.

I have to say that Team Hillary has chosen the worst possible time to vent about sexism. It isn’t going to help her at this point, and it’s going to hurt everyone else. They really should have moved on this when John McCain was asked, “How do we beat the bitch?” and laughed about it. Had she hit McCain back then, and hit him HARD, she could have drawn the support of the entire Democratic party and highlighted how pervasive sexism is in the country today.

Likewise I started as an Edwards supporter, then shifted to Obama. The reality is, the torch is passed. It’s not the Clintons’ anymore.

Wow. Reading this thread I got this shudder…….what about a McCain/Clinton ticket? Scary!

Hillary is not a Liberal. She’s a DLCer of the highest order. Just as it’s good to kick Traitor Joe out of the Party, it would be equally good to get the Clintons and other DLCers out as well. That’s my take at least.

No offense taken.

I would disagree about the “martial art nonetheless” comment. In the philosophy of aikido, one simply cannot attack another – one can only redirect their energy in another direction. So to say one will “use aikido” is not an aggressive remark, but rather a suggestion that we let that bad energy go by and redirect it positively – at least that’s my interpretation.

Cheers.

bobbyg at 143–thanks, you just proved my point……….i took you as genuine, way back when, if you’ll look on your blogroll you’ll see i was one of the first fdl’rs to go to your blog on a regular basis……

and now i’m open season…….

unh, huh………that’s what i’m sayin’……….

so, thanks for saying it so eloquently for me.

anyone that reads 143 will see the mean-spiritedness expressed……..that is exactly my point……

when in the hell did that become something that was ok here??????????????????

i think my energies would be better spent making pies.

No, a losing strategy is refusing to unify behind the party nominee. Throwing tantrums and demanding compromises when none are called for is simply being childish.

The thought has crossed my mind more than once.

Which nominating convention is first? D or R?

Hey Prairie, what about a new section of the party called Brokenhearted Edwards Supporters.

dmac, honestly, are you saying we’re all of one mind set and aren’t acting on our thoughts and passions? Since when haven’t we acted on the needs…? I’ve personally, called, written and showed up face-to-face with my critters… I’ve participated in my caucuses and daiy blog about the Iraq war…!

That’s why all I said was it was odd she was so bruised. Not impossible, and never called her a liar. I’m not a doctor nor do I play one on the internet.

Hey! I just tested for my red stripe, which is actually a black stripe on the red belt. If I passed (I won’t know until next week) the next step is black.

Got a stubbed toe and a slightly cracked rib to show for it, but otherwise all is well.

Good luck to your daughters. Which art are they studying?

As a much older yellow dog I am happy to pass the torch and say it’s about time. We need young minds and ideas in order to make this country work. I gladly hand off.

i was leaning Obama. My wife persuaded me, on the basis of pretty detailed and cogent argument, to caucus for Hillary, which we did.

Then Hillary lost us both. For her to lose my wife is pretty significant to me.

what does that 50 percent want?

i didn’t notice

((((( Eg )))))

I’ll set up the Canadian Branch, unless he’s Veep …

“So to say one will “use aikido” is not an aggressive remark, but rather a suggestion that we let that bad energy go by and redirect it positively – at least that’s my interpretation.”
_____

That is all I meant.

from your link:

According to one report, Ms. Clinton’s chief strategist, Mark Penn, confidently predicted at a meeting in 2007 that she would win the nomination on Feb. 5, because she would take California, with its massive haul of 370 delegates.

Mark Penn, “chief strategist” for HRC, didn’t even know that the Democratic primaries were not winner-take-all. That’s the kind of genius that could possibly lead to losing 11 primaries in a row, methinks.

But that is a very under-reported fact, and one which would probably be news to today’s bus-loads of protesters. HRC and her supporters can call it sexism, I call it incompetence.

Sob. I’m in.

I think everyone, Clintonites and Obamaites all need to step back and take a deep breath. We have all heard people who are ‘over the top’ from both groups – and while they are loud and obnoxious both – I don’t believe that they truly represent either candidate well or even at all.

The reason we all hear them is because they ARE loud and obnoxious – and of course the MSM likes to find this kind of person and play them over and over (Rev Wright anyone?) but I suspect that their numbers are no where near a majority in either camp.

Let’s let the fuss die down, finish up the final three primaries (Puerto Rico I find particularly disingenuous since the PR’s cannot vote in the general election!) and then let’s all get down to the business of BEATING THE CRAP OUT OF MCSLIME!

bobby g–does it not bother you that you just dissed a fellow musician and lifelong friend of musicians?

doesn’t show up on your radar that you did that out of hand with no concern who you were handin’ out?

that’s what i mean, this place has become a slam dance………and you’re a part of it…….own it.

a freakin’ slam dance, 24/7

i thought we were people of better quality…….

Ding.

if they’re offended by hateful, misogynistic language, i don’t see them signing up with a guy who calls his wife a cu*t.

Yeah…Where was the…

How dare you call me a Bitch!!!! How dare you!!!

‘

“Crickets”

Wow, did you upload any video recently ? Send me a link via FB.

Girls are in the art of empty hand and their katas are impressive, if I do say so myself …

Jane started the day asking all to have a pleasant fun day as she must have seen what was coming from this delegate fight. Locking uo with other pups is not much different with candidate nastiness.
But I am enjoyong the expressions that you all are venting, I think expression is a road to healing. Get it out before the convention and general. Then hitch up to the wagon and bring it into the White House. The candidates can lead their supporters.

Likewise, when studying tae kwon do, it is essential to incorporate the tenets of tae kwon do – courtesy, respect, self control, indomitible spirit and integrity. If one successfully practices those tenets, one need never use the martial skills of the discipline. Nevertheless, the skills are there as back up.

Likewise, aikido uses another’s energy to take down the opponent. The clip was of an older middle aged woman at a political convention with bruises on her arms. We have all been outraged at brown shirt techniques before. I am not happy this time. Don’t know the full picture of what happened, but dont’ like how it looked.

Three years of karate. Green belt.

BES Workin’ for T…omorrow

Slam dance? I can give you some links to those.

Not buyin’ that.

Nonetheless, I apologize for my irascibility. Toward you and CarolynU

No, a losing strategy is refusing to unify behind the party nominee. Throwing tantrums and demanding compromises when none are called for is simply being childish.

I guess my point was, telling 50 percent of potential voters that they can go kiss off is not the best way to include them in your game plan for success.

I asked earlier about what makes you so mad. No info from you…

1,859 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen newtonusr:

“How does that preserve Progressive values, especially if she is the nominee.”

There you go again…this is a typical M*Clinton tactic, ask for a conceptual answer to a question that has already been answered in fact – Obama won, M*Clinton lost. You lost, and you lost to a majority of people who hold all the values which you profess to hold…I would NOT have bvoted for M*Clinton,I would, however, have worked for the advancement of progressive Democratic candidates for office to maintain progressive control of the party. If Mrs. M*Clinton were to be successful as I think she would have been in purgin the Democratic Party of all Democrats then I would have left the party after the elction.

But that is all moot…figure it out, Obama won, M*Clinton lost, don’t wait for me to come beggin you for your vote…the question is really for YOU…now that Obama is the chosen leader of the party, are you with us or against us?

KEEP THE FAITH AND JOIN THE MOVEMENT OR BE LEFT BEHIND!!

Maybe a little diversion will do the trick… Beam Me Up, Scottie…

((Bigbrother)) and to all.

i disagree

*sending out healing energy to the universe*

We have a lot of work to do.

I love your blog…hee, hee!!

No, we’re sayin’ “don’t let the door hit’cha” to the maybe 5% of those who are intransigent and irrational martyrs.

Looks out of shape for that. She should know decorum if she teaches.

No, I’m saying that the presumptive Democratic candidate for president should pay attention to the people who vote Democratic.

You nailed it Wobbly…!!!

You have misread your man – I’m an Obama supporter.
But I will do what’s necessary to keep McCain out of that chair. Period.

thanks for the linky fern, i just finished reading. good article.

That’s why all I said was it was odd she was so bruised. Not impossible, and never called her a liar. I’m not a doctor nor do I play one on the internet.

I’m a doctor, my “Frist” impression was that the bruises were real. Some people bruise easily, and she may well be on blood thinners, which makes bruising worse. If she’s completely healthy, takes no medicines, and has no history of easy bruising, then she needs to see her doctor.

The sexism in America is extremely dangerous. It results in all kinds of horrible things. The number of women killed, especially while pregnant, because of some guy’s feeling that he “owns” her and no other man can are staggering. Extremely disturbing. Won’t even start on the rape and workplace issues…

If someone is extremely bitter and upset by this history or things that have happened to them personally, it is up to them to figure how to handle those feelings for themselves. They need to decide the best way they can help in changing this sad situation.

Are the actions of these “protesters” today the best way to fight sexism? Voting for McCandyCain is a useful way to channel that rage?

Mahalo, LS! 8-)

Would love to beam up with Scottie, however the dinosaur is huffin’ and puffin’ trying to keep the dialup wheel going…time to give him a break.

G’night, pups. We are one day closer to the Renaissance Age….if we work at it.

More and better Democrats

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr5vpHtJIlg

this is how it outta be
everyone stands and listens and gets something from it and goes on to do better things.

nessun dorma

So it’s a done deal?

I can wait for November?

Schweet!

Not

Congratulations Eg !

I’d like them to attain Black Belt, then move on to Aikido or Kung Fu.

It’s great that they know how to defend themselves but I use it along with my own knowledge in yoga/meditation to teach them how to win in life without resorting to violence in thought, words or deeds …

Would the bruise show up within the hour? My mom can be bruised by plasic grocery bags on her arms.

Video will have to wait until I get back from Hawaii in 10 days or so. I’ll let you know.

So who’s the talker? and who are the listeners?

Honestly, things being as they are, I’d love her to replace Harry Reid

Thanks Buddy … enjoy your trip !

“The sexism in America is extremely dangerous. It results in all kinds of horrible things. The number of women killed, especially while pregnant, because of some guy’s feeling that he “owns” her and no other man can are staggering.”
________

You might wanna read this. This is what McBu’ush and Huckabee wanna do.

American Taliban.

Okay. But, there are 300,000,000 people in our country…with a huge diversity of opinions and cultures…

It is hard.

A candidate can only be what they are and get that out there with the technology we have today….

The candidate is merely appealing to the intellect of those that hear them.

When there are age-old prejudices that are “preyed” upon by the the oppositions…it is hard.

Ultimately, the candidates can only do what they can do.

Oh, yeah…and ban Diebold and any other hackable machines. :)

I think that happened before Hil reclaimed her femininity.

Yeah…Where was the…

How dare you call me a Bitch!!!! How dare you!!!

‘

“Crickets”

I would have preferred, “That kind of sexism has no place in 21st century America. It shouldn’t have even had a place in 20th century America.” She should have called Obama up and offered a one-week cease-fire if he would join her in smacking the hell out of McCain.

Aloha, PS!

we outta be readin’ each other’s comments and goin’ on to do better things.
that’s what it used to be here. that’s why i stayed……..

that’s what i’m standin’ for…….

this other crap is about useless. and i don’t have a tolerance or use for it……..

i’d rather be inspired and move on………to do something that matters.

good question. I don’t know, as I’m not part of that group. Nor am I part of the Obama group who seem so gleeful to see Clinton crash and burn. After Edwards dropped out I have been looking for a place to put my energy this election season. I am resigned to voting for whichever candidate gets the nod, though neither are candidates that I am very enthusiastic about.

But I will say this: the ugliness has got to stop. I attribute most of the nastiness to supporters of the candidates, rather than to the candidates or individual campaigns. We’re going to lose a lot of votes this fall if we cannot find a way to include people.

I’d rather see Dodd replace Reid…! ;-)

Not within an hour.

I often bruise with out really noticing the thing that caused it. Unfortunate habit of thinking I can walk through the furniture that stand between me and where I’m going to.

don’t even get me started on who invented the mammogram thingy!

Nonetheless, I apologize for my irascibility. Toward you and CarolynU

I accept the olive branch. Thank you.

So the mods don’t mind people calling people “c***s”? My comments have been held for talking about David Pimpster and you don’t mind “c***”?

Weird.

dmac!!!!!!! Thank you!!! You made my evening!!!

Would the bruise show up within the hour? My mom can be bruised by plasic grocery bags on her arms.

They can. I’ve seen people with clotting disorders get bad bruising from a blood pressure cuff, and you can see the bruises start to come up before the cuff’s off their arm.

My wife fell off her bike and withing 10 minutes, the bruises were purple and swollen.

Fortunately, my friend who’s a doctor was with me when she got home. I gave her Arnica and rubbed Bach Rescue Cream on her bruises and within 15 minutes, swelling was down and bruises had improved enough that he didn’t prescribe stronger intervention … it was scary though …

No Citizen Carolyn, I will not be terrorized by a group of petulant adolescents, I will not cave in to extortion and fear mongerin’. It is a losin’ strategy for the winners to be forced to return to the field to compromise with the losers who have already lost the issue in question. I firmly believe that in the end there is a new Democratic majority emergin’, a constituency that represents all the interests and grievances of the M*Clinton supporters and then some. I guess I give the M*Clinton supporters more credit than you do, I believe that when forced to accept the reality of the threat that faces us as a country, they will join the resat of us in beatin;’ back the fascist beast.

Do bruises turn purple so soon?

They certainly can – in some people they will do in the absence of any medications or overt diseases. As discussed above, some mds and disease conditions can make bruises even more visible.

What we see as a “bruise” is blood relatively lacking in oxygen that is collecting under tissues (not the Kleenex kind, but rather the matrix of our body) that adjoin our skin.

With sufficient tearing of the microvasculature, bruising can be almost immediately apparent after injury.

Kathryn, I’m glad you asked the question, and it seems to me the question came fromteh best possible plae: desire for information. The following is occasionsed by what I read further down the thread, not by your question.

Seeing pups so readily dismiss the ejected woman’s signs of phycial inury as false saddens and disappoints me.

With a fellowship in trauma psychiatry and in “consultation-liaison” psychiatry (psychosomatic medicine), most of my work has been with trauma survivors and with people who are accused of inventing their symptoms “it’s all in their head”.

Seeing people whose comments I would otherwise respect assert that visible physical injuries wre somehow an invention of pretense reminds me of the most brutal and insenstive “rebuttals” I’ve heard to survivors of demonstrable rapes:

“She’s making it up.”

Y’all can do better — please start trying, whichever ambitious deeply flawed pro-corporate Dem Senator you may hae decided is Jesus/Satan.

Y’all can do better.

[PS - this comes from an EarthFirst!er who looks at the two Dem Senators and sees each as but a talon on the megacorps’ claw…and sees the Rethug candidate as the whole claw.]

You’re sweet. I think, though, as I’ve already responded to your POV, I won’t waste all of our time repeating myself.

Honestly, things being as they are, I’d love her to replace Harry Reid

Not so very long ago, I would have agreed whole-heartedly. At this point however, I think her stature has taken too big a hit, for many reasons, all of which manifested during the late primaries…

Three years of karate. Green belt.

Me too. On the belt. Never tested. Was a yellow belt for two years. Kind of liked the beginner mind. Still practice Egregious?

“Nor am I part of the Obama group who seem so gleeful to see Clinton crash and burn.”
__________

Neither am I. She fought hard, and has apparently lost. She lost me in particular at “sniper fire.” I am not “gleeful,” I am saddened.

You and me both, Brother, you and me both!!!

((( kirk )))

Excellent as always !

Did you see his version at the Torino Olympics. Really one of my all0time favorite TV moments. Turned out to be his farewell performance to the world before his death, and in his home country no less….get chills still…almost seems like he knows this might be it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaufjDVYivc

I love the whole Paul Potts phenomenon as well and how it started with this same song.

Thirded !

You are quite right…I guess she doesn’t drink Cuervo Gold like me…

That would be the reasonable, sophisticated way to handle it…

I change my mind……

Sorry, you call someone a “bitch” publicly…you should get it back “in your face!”

Thers has Late Nite!
Late Night: A Few Words about F-Words

We have all been outraged at brown shirt techniques before. I am not happy this time. Don’t know the full picture of what happened, but dont’ like how it looked.

This is true.
However.
The protesters were acting up repeatedly. Had been asked repeatedly to settle down and STFU. They didn’t. They protested some more. Even Code Pink will be quiet in the Senate chambers to hear what’s going on now after one outburst. They kept protesting and were finally ushered out. You saw the ones that were ousted. They were not tasered or cuffed. They were asked to leave because the meeting could not continue with them in the room.

that’s all I know. I am not questioning the bruises. But I really don’t think this was in the brownshirt category. As unfortunate as it all was. They were bounced, that much is true.

Cajones would be nice.

thanks for your take. I read some of the liveblogging, but didn’t watch it on TV. Don’t know how it went down.

For the sake of my three daughters, I hope the Clintons and those that think like them are run out of the DemocratIC Party and politics in general.

This way, they will not be sucking up all our energies and resources, and we can get many more Donna Edwards’ into government, and create real social change, especially in regards to gender issues.

LOL. I caught that too. a scoobydoo moment.

and bobbyg-one last comment that i should just keep to myself, but what the hell…

i had two national editors comin’ to this place last year to get news…….TWO NATIONAL PRINT EDITORS……

get that under your belt……..

they will no longer come here because of the diatribe that has broken out…..

HOW’S THAT SERVIN’ US???????

i wish i could totally express how pissed off i am at commenters, at how much they have cost us……

y’all keep talkin’ about how KO IS THE MAN and how we are ’it’…….well, we aren’t it if noone will listen to us anymore because of our self-serving volatile juvenile volcanic crap???????????

TWO FREAKIN’ NATIONAL EDITORS DOWN THE FUCKING DRAIN……….

so, trash my ass, go ahead……….i did my best…………and you all are still in the cesspool sayin’
’we got game’………

i wish i could express how much that pisses me off……….i tried to to jane and kirk and teddy and anyone who would listen, guess i’m just a looney……problem is, i was a looney who was actually getting this place some readership that was getting printed.;

i wish people would think beyond their dicks.

McCain doesn’t seem to worry much about women serving in the militay or with KBR in Iraq getting raped.

No arguement there.

Hugs to Mrs. Petro!

And would love to see your comments, dear wife of Petro.

Yes. Indeed.

BTW, I have to say that to me, the woman in the video did not come across enraged or out-of-control or unhinged. She just looked upset and disappointed, and afraid for the future.

sheesh dmac. I don’t know what to say. you are complaining about the complaining? uh, okay. btw, you’ve said what you had to say and said it in very general terms so that it sounds like you are howling at the wind.

sorry I don’t understand.

Give it up.

I apologized to you. Put it to rest.

1,859 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Firepup Freedom Fighters and Brothers and Sisters in Democracy:

This fight is over, the atmospherics for which Mr. and Mrs. M*Clinton are masters matter NOT!! The nomination fight is over and the loser will be known by how she handles defeat and whether she can accept that we the people and our pain and suffering are more important than her ego and ambition.

We will NOT be terrorized by the losers in this fight…it is for the M*Clinton supporters to decide if they are gunna join the future or be left behind by even the leader that took advantage of them.

FEEP THE FAITH, PASS THE AMMUNITION AND HAVE NO FEAR…FEAR IS JEST A WORD!!

if you get a chance, you should catch some video of the outbreak during the voting portion of the meeting. It was quite something. it gives a perspective that is not reflected in print.

Names of these Big Swingin’ Dicks?

I want a new banner!

Big Swinging Dicks
for
McCain!

dmac –

do you have a specific issue?

umm wow

Too bad they didn’t throw Harold Ickes out with as disruptive as he was being, screaming and cursing…

707!

Need a towel to clean off the monitor…thanks *g*

“i was a looney who was actually getting this place some readership that was getting printed.”
_________

Wait a fucking minute. Jane and Redd and Marcy et al got major, major sustained MSM ink over the Libby stuff. You now claiming credit for that too? Like FDL would be some marginalized backwater absent your juice?

Man…chill.

Yeah, sorry. I get a little punchy after riproaring convention!

Ickes. was. dis. gusting.

Unfortunately, it was all for show – the RBC did exactly what the Clinton camp wanted – half votes and all. Now she has an excuse to go fight at the Convention – even though she lost. And would still lose even if they gave her everything (full seated delegations from MI and FL for her, some delegates from FL for Obama – none from MI).

Sigh.

Here is an interesting article from the AP on the Obama strategy and Clinton strategy re the nominating process.

Convention-conschmenscion. Obama locks it up by Wednesday (maybe earlier). The requisite spineless fence-sitting SDs are just waiting for the final primary counts so they can go with the winner with no fear of Clinton camp blowback.

Isn’t that sweet. New Yorker so concerned about the poor disenfranchised Michigan voters…

I don’t know why she wasn’t listened to, my usual tactic is to start screaming and chanting at meetings when things don’t go my way, everyone usually is very respectful of my creativity…

Maybe she wasn’t yelling correctly?

It’s okay. just glad it was water

I’m all about the ‘nads. :)

I can certainly understand intending to disrupt a meeting as a form of protest, but don’t act shocked and surprised if you are ejected from the meeting after you disrupt it…

Actions have consequences, even if you are a Hillary supporter.

no bobbyg, their own merits led to me being able to get others to come here…….

the crass commenting led them back away……..we had debates about it.

so, stuff your shit in your hat, that’s not what i said at all…….that’s exactly what i’m sayin’ about what this place has turned into………

your kinda crap.

and yes, tom, i do have a point……how this place was a diamond, and now is a hunk a coal.

I read the article that outlined that argument. I’m not sure I buy it. I think whatever the RBC decided, Clinton was going to have any argument to take it forward.

Since everyone was talking about woulda shoulda coulda at the meeting, what if we gave everyone a do over given what we know now about both candidates? I’m sure she alienated more than a few supporters who already voted along the way. Not saying that would affect any outcome, but good lord, it’s not about her. it’s about the process and about allowing the dem party to choose their candidate.

wow, that’s some good crazy.

Names?

“You call this quality?”

BobbyG

How’s it hangin’?

snirk.

glass of wine/vodka/scotch anyone?

make mine a double

;~P

I’ll have one too.

Problem with drinking that last of the booze in the house is that there is then no booze in the house. Which is the situation I am now in.

you got it

{{{{Fern}}}}

Most humble sympathies

‘ere!

aww well then here, you can have a bottle *g*

You are truly a kind and generous soul!

I’d like to make two points. 1) The protesters who came out today can think for themselves. THEY see what is happening, and THEY made the decision to speak up.

2) Should Obama become the Democratic nominee he can’t win without the support of these women. Women register and vote in greater number than any other group. Right now, many women are very upset with Obama, and his surrogates at the meeting today did not advance his cause.

I think a number of these women will simply stay home on election day if Obama is the nominee — and I wouldn’t blame them.

BAC

I’ve had a bruise that was purple and swollen, and didn’t ever hurt; if I hadn’t seen it, I wouldn’t have known it was there. (Gear-shift knob to the thigh. The ribs it cracked hurt worse.)

a bottle of tequila and a funnel, please.

Staying home on election day because their candidate isn’t on the ballot says to me that they’re not committed to anything but their particular candidate, and they’d rather see the country fscked up worse than it already is, than vote for the nominee of the party they say they belong to.

That sounds like another flavor of single-issue voting, which is part of how we got into this mess.

I don’t like single-issue voting.

bobbyg-don’t expect to be seein’ me or my friends at the palms anytime soon………

wonder how that is. what a waste. stew on it.

one thing affects another, the sooner you all realize that the better the world will be.

i kinda looked forward to hearin’ y’all, now, not so much.

no, take it easy, gonna go back to not being a commenter anymore, so, don’tbother, don’t worry about it…i’m a nobody….ride this train to the end of the tracks……

but nobody’s lookin’ where that is…….that’s the problem………

thought somebody as smart as you would have seen that a comin’………

guess not.

Right you are. Not even close to brownshirt and the bruises are suspicious.Actuons do have consequences,

As a Michigan voter that voted uncommitted, I am satisfied with todays DNC Rules & Bylaws Committee’s outcome.

But after watching part of the hearings on CSPAN, I can see the party is in a mess. I hope the party leaders will put the country first and let this Presidential campaign begin.

I also hope the matter of choosing a prez candiate for this party is never decided by 3 states or superdelegates again. What a fucking way to fool the people into thinking they choose a candiate. I recommend 5 supper Tuesdays, each 2 weeks apart, divided up similar to the time zones to make it easier for campaigning. Every state should participate in this extremly important process. That’s my two cents worth.

I agree! We started out with 10 candiates and each had members of the Dem party backing them. When the other 8 dropped out, they did not say, oh my candiate isn’t running so I’ll stay home. They backed their party. Obama and Clinton followers need to do the same. Other wise the GOP may get their “Permanent republican majority” and who ever is the Dem candiate needs to put that in a commercial.

And because she was bruised she’s going to vote for McCain.

I’d like us to be ecstatic in November.

The Supreme Court is why I’m voting for a Democrat in the fall.

Hilliary has given me more reasons not to vote for her then reasons to. I’m not a big fan of Obama, however I do see see him working with Dean’s 50 state strategy better then Hilliary, and for the long term growth of the Democratic Party, I think Obama will do better then Hilliary. I say this someone who has been a life long Democrat who recently switched his registration to independent because of I’ve had it with a lot of what both Clintons has said and the party antics here in NJ.

Neither party is a strong supporter of my right to get married, but I put that aside to vote for the party that gives me the best shot at seeing that I will get that right.

From Wikipedia article:

a Japanese martial art … that practitioners could use to defend themselves while also protecting their attacker from injury.

Agreed. A lot of misunderstanding and misdirected anger in this thread.

I’d like to point out that at the time of the Libby trial, Marcy was blogging at The Next Hurrah. She did show up at FDL during the video commentaries.

On one level I sympathize with the die hard Hillary supporters. It’s not easy seeing your candidate lose. I know it wasn’t easy for me seeing how the press treated Edwards so I know where these people are coming from. Unfortunately for Hillary, however, I think some of her over-the-top supporters do more harm to her than good. The same is true for some of the more wild Obama supporters that viciously attack Hillary because some of her supporters say crazy things. I guess the bottom line is that some of these supporters just aren’t ready for prime time.

Many of the most vocal “protesters” who showed up are known supporters of Lyndon LaRouche. Need I say more?

Whatever. Thanks for all your lecturing.

Frequently. And they all got major MSM play. That was my point.

bobbyg-don’t expect to be seein’ me or my friends at the palms anytime soon………

wonder how that is. what a waste. stew on it.
___________

Y’know, upon reflection, that is the lamest shit I ever heard. Trust me, I will not be pacing the floor worrying. Shit, now revenue will tank, and we’ll lose the gig. All because of my heat-of-the-moment blog comment (admittedly) rude response to an incoherent and patronizing post, for which I tried to apologize — but will not continue to do.

Yeah, it will be a waste — for you and your posse.