Comments on: Majority Of Californians Want To Overturn The Will Of The People Of California http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/29/majority-of-californians-want-to-overturn-the-will-of-the-people-of-california/ Firedoglake weblog Sat, 18 Feb 2012 02:03:10 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: TeddySanFran http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/29/majority-of-californians-want-to-overturn-the-will-of-the-people-of-california/#comment-1468390 TeddySanFran Fri, 30 May 2008 02:06:15 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/29/majority-of-californians-want-to-overturn-the-will-of-the-people-of-california/#comment-1468390 <p>The California electorate voted on Prop22 — changing the State Family Code so that marriage was between a man and a a woman — in March 2000, during a <strong>primary election</strong>. The Democratic primary was settled; Al Gore was our nominee, so Democratic voters (more likely to favor marriage equality and civil rights) did not turn out. </p> <p>The Republican primary was almost over, but not quite, so there was a reason for the haters to turn out to vote for W to ensure California put him over the top - which they did.</p> <p>The vote was 61% in favor of Prop22 — but in no way was it a representative California electorate. So, it was not only eight long years ago, it was also not a fair election, since fair-minded folks didn’t have a reason to go to the polls.</p> <p>Just another argument to posit when the haters spout their Tony Perkins talking points.</p> The California electorate voted on Prop22 — changing the State Family Code so that marriage was between a man and a a woman — in March 2000, during a primary election. The Democratic primary was settled; Al Gore was our nominee, so Democratic voters (more likely to favor marriage equality and civil rights) did not turn out.

The Republican primary was almost over, but not quite, so there was a reason for the haters to turn out to vote for W to ensure California put him over the top – which they did.

The vote was 61% in favor of Prop22 — but in no way was it a representative California electorate. So, it was not only eight long years ago, it was also not a fair election, since fair-minded folks didn’t have a reason to go to the polls.

Just another argument to posit when the haters spout their Tony Perkins talking points.

]]> By: Winski http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/29/majority-of-californians-want-to-overturn-the-will-of-the-people-of-california/#comment-1468304 Winski Fri, 30 May 2008 00:46:48 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/29/majority-of-californians-want-to-overturn-the-will-of-the-people-of-california/#comment-1468304 <p>Perkins is a raving lunatic…If it didn’t come from Dobson in Co. Springs then he can’t say it…these people will say anything (truth or NOT)to get their KKK-esk, bent philosophy in the public sphere.. It’s back to the future in their minds..</p> <p>Time to lock them away…for GOOD!</p> Perkins is a raving lunatic…If it didn’t come from Dobson in Co. Springs then he can’t say it…these people will say anything (truth or NOT)to get their KKK-esk, bent philosophy in the public sphere.. It’s back to the future in their minds..

Time to lock them away…for GOOD!

]]> By: SouthernDragon http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/29/majority-of-californians-want-to-overturn-the-will-of-the-people-of-california/#comment-1468272 SouthernDragon Thu, 29 May 2008 23:41:58 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/29/majority-of-californians-want-to-overturn-the-will-of-the-people-of-california/#comment-1468272 <p>The best example is the New Deal. The New Deal didn’t come about because FDR willed it into being. Once he had been convinced that the agenda involved was a good idea he told the supporters to make Congress agree to make it happen. Congress, through people telling them that the programs were good for all, realized that and enacted the legislation that became the New Deal. The economic picture at the time helped a great deal. We don’t have that picture now but change will come if we force Congress to enact change. The biggest problem is that Americans don’t participate. If they did the Rethugs would never have gotten as far as they have. Americans are lazy. If something doesn’t affect them personally, they don’t care. They’re too busy enjoying their big screen TVs, waverunners, and all the other toys foisted upon them to keep them fat, dumb and happy. We have to take chances. We have to get up off our asses and make Congress do something. Before we can do that, however, we have to elect people who are willing to listen. Congress in 1934 was willing to listen. Congress in 2006-8 is not. If we make good inroads this year it betters the chances we have in successive elections to make more change. 2008 is not going to be a magic pill. It may take 10-15 years, or more, to really get things on the right track. We have to be willing to engage in that struggle. We have to take the attitude, “It’s not about me and my comfortable life, it’s about all of us, specifically those who have nothing.”</p> The best example is the New Deal. The New Deal didn’t come about because FDR willed it into being. Once he had been convinced that the agenda involved was a good idea he told the supporters to make Congress agree to make it happen. Congress, through people telling them that the programs were good for all, realized that and enacted the legislation that became the New Deal. The economic picture at the time helped a great deal. We don’t have that picture now but change will come if we force Congress to enact change. The biggest problem is that Americans don’t participate. If they did the Rethugs would never have gotten as far as they have. Americans are lazy. If something doesn’t affect them personally, they don’t care. They’re too busy enjoying their big screen TVs, waverunners, and all the other toys foisted upon them to keep them fat, dumb and happy. We have to take chances. We have to get up off our asses and make Congress do something. Before we can do that, however, we have to elect people who are willing to listen. Congress in 1934 was willing to listen. Congress in 2006-8 is not. If we make good inroads this year it betters the chances we have in successive elections to make more change. 2008 is not going to be a magic pill. It may take 10-15 years, or more, to really get things on the right track. We have to be willing to engage in that struggle. We have to take the attitude, “It’s not about me and my comfortable life, it’s about all of us, specifically those who have nothing.”

]]> By: selise http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/29/majority-of-californians-want-to-overturn-the-will-of-the-people-of-california/#comment-1468263 selise Thu, 29 May 2008 23:18:41 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/29/majority-of-californians-want-to-overturn-the-will-of-the-people-of-california/#comment-1468263 <blockquote><p>First you have to get people into government who are willing to listen to the people calling for social change</p></blockquote> <p>is that really true? has that ever happened? - where social change occurred because of electoral changes first and social movements second?</p> <p>or has it always been the other way around? or at least concurrent electoral/social movement actions?</p> <p>what really has been the history of major social change?</p>

First you have to get people into government who are willing to listen to the people calling for social change

is that really true? has that ever happened? – where social change occurred because of electoral changes first and social movements second?

or has it always been the other way around? or at least concurrent electoral/social movement actions?

what really has been the history of major social change?

]]> By: SouthernDragon http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/29/majority-of-californians-want-to-overturn-the-will-of-the-people-of-california/#comment-1468251 SouthernDragon Thu, 29 May 2008 23:04:24 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/29/majority-of-californians-want-to-overturn-the-will-of-the-people-of-california/#comment-1468251 <p>First you have to get people into government who are willing to listen to the people calling for social change. The Rethugs spent 30 years getting people elected to office who would listen to the corporations only. They have never been interested in social change except as a control issue, e.g., gay marriage, abortion, etc. They’ve been very effective at it. Now we have to elect people who are committed to the common good. The uprisings in France in 68-69 were challenging the status quo, the wealth and power crowd. They don’t have the type of government we do so it’s easier, theoretically, to force the government to change.</p> First you have to get people into government who are willing to listen to the people calling for social change. The Rethugs spent 30 years getting people elected to office who would listen to the corporations only. They have never been interested in social change except as a control issue, e.g., gay marriage, abortion, etc. They’ve been very effective at it. Now we have to elect people who are committed to the common good. The uprisings in France in 68-69 were challenging the status quo, the wealth and power crowd. They don’t have the type of government we do so it’s easier, theoretically, to force the government to change.

]]> By: selise http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/29/majority-of-californians-want-to-overturn-the-will-of-the-people-of-california/#comment-1468248 selise Thu, 29 May 2008 22:57:39 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/29/majority-of-californians-want-to-overturn-the-will-of-the-people-of-california/#comment-1468248 <p>i don’t have a problem searching, was just wondering what folks here thought also.</p> <p>… the thing is, as far as i know (and correct me if i’m wrong) every major advance in social and/or economic justice here has been accompanied by a strong social movement. has it <em>ever</em> been done by electoral politics alone?</p> <p>not trying to suggest the european model. just that we don’t forget there is more to political activism than electoral politics.</p> i don’t have a problem searching, was just wondering what folks here thought also.

… the thing is, as far as i know (and correct me if i’m wrong) every major advance in social and/or economic justice here has been accompanied by a strong social movement. has it ever been done by electoral politics alone?

not trying to suggest the european model. just that we don’t forget there is more to political activism than electoral politics.

]]> By: dakine01 http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/29/majority-of-californians-want-to-overturn-the-will-of-the-people-of-california/#comment-1468247 dakine01 Thu, 29 May 2008 22:54:22 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/29/majority-of-californians-want-to-overturn-the-will-of-the-people-of-california/#comment-1468247 <p><a href="http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/29/pat-buchanan-springtime-for-appeasers/" rel="nofollow">Dave Neiwert a couple of flights up </a> talking about some Republican Appeasers and deniers.</p> Dave Neiwert a couple of flights up talking about some Republican Appeasers and deniers.

]]> By: SouthernDragon http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/29/majority-of-californians-want-to-overturn-the-will-of-the-people-of-california/#comment-1468244 SouthernDragon Thu, 29 May 2008 22:53:21 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/29/majority-of-californians-want-to-overturn-the-will-of-the-people-of-california/#comment-1468244 <p>He wasn’t telling you what you wanted to hear, he’s telling you what the left was trying to do during that time. And is still trying to do. He’s a believer in every word he says and has lived it. I’ll have to do some searching and come up with some stuff for you to read.</p> He wasn’t telling you what you wanted to hear, he’s telling you what the left was trying to do during that time. And is still trying to do. He’s a believer in every word he says and has lived it. I’ll have to do some searching and come up with some stuff for you to read.

]]> By: SouthernDragon http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/29/majority-of-californians-want-to-overturn-the-will-of-the-people-of-california/#comment-1468239 SouthernDragon Thu, 29 May 2008 22:50:14 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/29/majority-of-californians-want-to-overturn-the-will-of-the-people-of-california/#comment-1468239 <p>Electoral politics is what we have to make the social changes we want. We’re different from Europe in that the unions here are more in the pockets of the corporations. A general strike in any state, much less the whole country, is impossible. Union busting over the last 100 years was to prevent just that sort of thing. It’s 40 years later and we have to use the tools we have to effect change. Politicians and corporations have used that time to ensure that there is no concerted effort to change the status quo. Time for that to change.</p> Electoral politics is what we have to make the social changes we want. We’re different from Europe in that the unions here are more in the pockets of the corporations. A general strike in any state, much less the whole country, is impossible. Union busting over the last 100 years was to prevent just that sort of thing. It’s 40 years later and we have to use the tools we have to effect change. Politicians and corporations have used that time to ensure that there is no concerted effort to change the status quo. Time for that to change.

]]> By: selise http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/29/majority-of-californians-want-to-overturn-the-will-of-the-people-of-california/#comment-1468238 selise Thu, 29 May 2008 22:48:41 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/29/majority-of-californians-want-to-overturn-the-will-of-the-people-of-california/#comment-1468238 <p>i have read (and listened) to a bit of his work previously. i don’t know enough about that time (especially events outside the usa) to judge on my own and he tells me things i want to hear… which is always a warning to check it out.</p> <p>will give it another listen, though. hope others will give it a listen also. i was especially curious about the events he described in france.</p> i have read (and listened) to a bit of his work previously. i don’t know enough about that time (especially events outside the usa) to judge on my own and he tells me things i want to hear… which is always a warning to check it out.

will give it another listen, though. hope others will give it a listen also. i was especially curious about the events he described in france.

]]>