Blue America candidate Martin Heinrich is over at Crooks & Liars chatting. Stop by and say "hi" — jh
Following up on my post from yesterday on John McCain’s bid for Hillary Clinton’s female voters, I see my good friend Arianna Huffington has finally joined the ranks of pro-choice bloggers and writes about a promising poll by Planned Parenthood. The poll concludes that many of McCain’s supporters in swing states are pro-choice, and don’t realize what a reactionary barbarian he is when it comes to a woman’s right to control her own body.
People in our comments thread were also quick to note that no woman who really cares about choice could vote for a President who might put another Alito on the bench. Well, people such as myself who are die-hard pro-choice voters might wish that were true, but there really isn’t any statistical proof to back up the conclusion that John McCain’s Neanderthal position on choice is going to hurt him significantly in November.
A recent nation wide Gallup poll indicates that only 13% of those polled say that a candidate "must share your views" with regard to abortion; 49% said it was "just one of many important factors," while 37% said it was "not a major issue" and 2% had "no opinion."
Here’s Newsweek:
McCain aides say his hard line on abortion isn’t necessarily a disadvantage among many women. Though about 60 percent agree in general with Roe, that doesn’t mean they vote based on a candidate’s position on abortion. The McCain camp believes Hillary backers—working-class white women and independents, in particular—could migrate to McCain rather than to Obama. A Planned Parenthood poll of women voters in 16 battleground states earlier this year showed 49 percent of McCain’s supporters called themselves pro-choice and said they support Roe.
What do women care about? Well, that is the eternal question, isn’t it. From a May 14 Quinnipiac poll:
Which of the following will be the single most important issue in your vote in the election for President this year?
Issue Women Terrorism 5% War in Iraq 22% The economy 46% Illegal immigration 6% Health care 14% Something else (Vol) 4% DK/NA 2%
"A woman’s right to choose" doesn’t even chart.
McCain’s big vulnerability among women is the economy. The Quinipiac poll also states that 77% of women disapprove of Bush’s handling of the economy, and Progressive Media demonstrates that in 2008 John McCain voted with Bush 100% of the time. In 2007, he voted with him 95% of the time. If Obama can articulate a meaningful vision of how he’ll handle the economy, it’s going to be a lot more persuasive to female voters at this point in time.
Choice is — or should be — a core Democratic value. It’s critical for party leaders to be vocal in their support of it, because the people who really care about it really care about it and they’re the activists who get stuff done. And good on Arianna for getting the message out about McCain, because the Planned Parenthood poll indicates that when people are aware of what a pig he is on choice, it starts to chip away at their willingness to support him. But for those looking to a position on choice to keep women in the Democratic tent, there just isn’t a compelling argument that this issue alone will prevent women from defecting to McCain.
All this is by way of reinforcing my central thesis, which I still stick by — Hillary Clinton’s exit from the stage needs to be carefully managed, and a bum’s rush may have undesirable consequences. Those looking to see her burned at the stake may be firmly convinced of their righteousness, but it’s questionable whether this is in the best interest of a November victory for Obama.
Related posts:
- Vote Counting for Good Health Reform: Doing What Any Good Lobbyist Would Do
- Women: Get Realistic About Your Uteruses
- Will Planned Parenthood and NARAL Score the House Health Care Bill?
- And the Catholic Bishops Endorse! A Special Thank-You To Planned Parenthood and NARAL
- Baucus, CBO Wrangling Denied Wyden Vote on “Choice” Amendment





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Ugh.
How do other people “manage” her exit?
Agreed, Jane.
Managed by whom?
Top people.
Well, for one thing, I think the idea that any candidate “must” drop out of the primary is not helpful. I wanted John Edwards in the race, even though it was apparent that he did not have the money or the exposure to pick up the necessary momentum. The race was better in tone when he was part of it. I think dropping out is a personal, or perhaps a financial decision that a candidate may make, but this is a Primary. There is no nominee, yet. And if I lived in one of the states that has held its primary in the last month or so, I’d be livid to have no choice in the matter.
So it’s her decision, doesn’t seem to me that can be “managed”. The subtext here is to stop doggin her, right?
McCain’s big vulnerability among women is the fact that he called his own wife a c*** in public.
Jane, you quote the Gallup poll as saying that only 13% of those polled say that a candidate “must share your views” with regard to abortion; 49% said it was “just one of many important factors,” while 37% said it was “not a major issue” and 2% had “no opinion.”
What I wonder: is the issue more important to pro-choice people or anti-abortion people? Any indication in the poll?
Bingo. Problem is, only the internet people know about it…
Well sure, it’s her decision to leave the race. We don’t control Clinton. We only control ourselves (or not). What can we do to manage how the primary progresses into the convention? Can we stop biting each other’s ankles, and focus on the bigger picture? Hard to do, I know, but I think we each need to try.
Well, I’m open to the idea that calling her a crazy screeching bitch until she drops out is anything but a self-defeating exercise in complete narcissism, I guess you could take it that way too.
I wonder if many of us take the ability to choose for granted at this point; making it a bigger issue for the anti abortion crowd who want to change things.
Maybe if she didn’t say the kind of shit she repeated Friday it would be a little easier.
Maybe American women are so used to having Abortion as a right they can’t imagine that it could ever be taken away? McCain is going to avoid this issue then and cruise on stealth except unless he is behind closed doors speaking to the prescreened for loyalty.
I think we can get more on the economy issue but still I would like to nail him with that issue.
Jane, I agree this has to be handled carefully and leave her with some dignity. The problem is that only she can make a graceful exit and up to this point she has seemed to get seriously off track and is lashing out in all directions. I don’t know what any of us can do to aid this disaster.
How. When and Where? Or maybe Obama could just ignore her and pick a VP?
And then there is her windbag husband with his crap.
I support Hillary’s right to choose… the time and place of her exit.
Why did terrorism, which garnered 5%, get placed at the top of the list? Makes me wonder about the pollster.
Terribly saddening to see choice doesn’t even make the list. As a feminist male with no mistakes in my history and a vasectomy, it certainly makes my list.. It was one of my own best hopes for a fair share of the dem electorate “getting” the dire circumstance/status of the court..
It’s possible that younger women assume choice as a right. Some of us older ones do not.
And then there is the question of access to and affordability of abortion services – which is lack of choice by another means.
I think he pretty much is ignoring her. He was pretty low-keyed about her assassination tango.
Does seem to be his current strategy.
So much for managing it.
My guess is that the poll above would be very different if broken down into age ranges. Those who were around before Roe and knew what it was like are far less likely to want to compromise on this issue. That means that the Hillary demo, if they really knew about McSame’s real position on choice couldn’t possibly vote for him.
The younger generation does take it for granted, but they are more likely to be Obama supporters anyway.
That would be my guess.
I listen to the young women of today – in their 20s and 30s and they just accept that abortion will always be available. It’s scary to think that their lack of urgency about the issue could cause the loss of the right.
I felt the same way about Hilary I thought the only way she could get votes was to go Left and this would drag the debate further Left but aside from the promise to change NAFTA nothing else has happened.
I was wrong about her I never thought she would go GOP negative. So far the morning People are being nice and not saying this is my fault.
That’s why I keep preaching on it. The older moms who bring their daughters who are in their 20’s and 30’s thank me profusely. They get it.
I think Obama is baiting McCain…he made a comment about not necessarily meeting directly with Ahmadinijad, because he’s not the actual leader in Iran…last week McCain argued that Ahamdinijad is the leader of Iraq…McCain will probably respond that Obama is ignorant and that Ahmadinijad is the leader of Iran, and Obama will say gotcha…heh, heh….
Sorry, that should read Iran…
He’s only just begun.
I think the public affirmation of Obama’s clean Nomination is just as important as Hillary’s exit. I think it can be aided — for instance the degree to which we discuss poor assumptions and campaign design as factoring into her loss, perhaps that takes some of the sting out of it, but once Obama hits the magic number we only undercut what has been achieved by too much focus on Hillary’s feelings.
Obama is so well organized, I assume he has lots of good things to say about Hillary and the issues that made her appealing. He has to make them his own. But I actually think that the fact that she made him fight for the nomination was a gift — and he should thank her for it.
Good points about age variables.. Makes a lot of sense to me.. especially about younger women (and men) taking it for granted.
Thanks
One think about the right to choose that should be broadened, is that it is not just about abortion. Pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion, it means pro-choice.
We older ones certainly do get it. It has been my issue for as long as I can remember. The idea that a woman does not have the right to decide about her own body is a privacy issue for me and I get really agitated about it. No privacy and we are little better than slaves.
Yeah, Jane, what if you really think she is a crazy screeching neo-nazi castrating bitch? Shouldn’t you say so, for the good of the party? Point it out to other people, who perhaps aren’t seeing things the way they should?
I know about that drove a friend from Carpenterville once to that bad area of Chicago between Forest Park and Chicago she swore it was the closest place thankfully she was fine though.
Precisely. And it really is about WHO makes the choice. Who decides is the bottom line of the issue, not what the ultimate decision is.
Yea, and we old veterans thought we learned from our mistakes. . .
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/…..refer=home
UGH
Bullseye.
Welcome to Bushworld! Where you don’t belong to yourself!
I think the way Edwards handled things, when he endorsed Obama, was classy as hell. Way to go. Not trashing anyone, not disparaging anyone, but trying to highlight what was good, what was important, what was needed.
My X drove with her friend from Urbana to NYC in the early 70’s.
It boggles the mind that anyone thinks the Clintons are a value add under any plausible set of circumstances. True the Clintons have “support” based on their dumb it down gender baiting, race baiting, age baiting I said it but what I said was misinterpreted or misreported mo and their attacks and manipulation of the MSM.
The Clintons under any reasonable standard have run a disorganized and dispuptive and negative campaign. The bottom line is that the Clintons have really nothing to say on behalf of the Democratic Party.
Is there anything in her behavior that leads you to the conclusion that she has one iota of class?
Because she was self destructing all on her own a few more comments like that and Hilary will lose her Senate seat in New York. But we need to get her out soon a few more comments like that and Rush will have her guest hosting his show!
It’s all about the supreme court baby, nothing either one of them does or says changes that in the mind of many. They’d even vote for her.
Agree, but I would like to see other examples used…not just abortion, because otherwise it is always about “baby killers”.. People don’t understand that it impacts everything.
Because many of those same folks you are pointing it out to may agree with her in a lot of respects.
Winning them (and her) with kindness may go a lot further toward having Clinton supporters voting for Obama in November.
She has managed to receive approximately 45-47% of the vote in the primaries. There ARE a lot of folks who do believe in her views.
We do not win elections by throwing them out to make a purity point.
What views are that?
So why would it be important someone convince others that Hillary is a crazy, screeching, castrating bitch? Will that change the electoral outcome?
If I were an American, I would be supporting Obama. But I do not think name-calling is helpful. And why this language that so explicitly insults her as a woman?
I agree – that was very skillfully handled.
Actually polling data indicates younger voters in battleground states are very concerned about abortion, and are much more likely to insist that their candidate agree with their views on the subject than the national average:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..02646.html
No man I know of here would have ever framed it that way. I’d never call her a bitch.
Illinois to New York damm I complained about a hour drive!
Sorry Raven, I couldn’t resist fooling with you a bit. As for Clinton, I am not her defender, but I am quite put off by the tenor of this primary – specifically the nastiness that has come, not from either campaign so much, as from campaign supporters. There’s your UGH. From the point of view of someone who does not have a horse in this race, there has been a nastiness barrier that I cannot wade through. Don’t want to. Don’t like the nasty racism, don’t like the nasty sexism. And no, people, I’m not saying that anyone’s choice is based on race or sex. I’m just saying there has been a lot of both, and it sucks.
As for Clinton? She’s smart as hell, and tough. Those are good qualities.
Yea, that was quite an ordeal.
I am so glad to hear that. Have not seen polls on the question – just got my impressions from listening to people talk. All my daughters (in their 40s) know all about the issue – jeebus, they’ve heard it enough.
I’m sorry but I am always suspicious of polling data and esp. the way the questions are asked. So I went to the QU poll site linked above and here is the question:
Which of the following will be the single most important issue in your vote in the election for President this year? (Read options)
Does this mean that only the things listed above were read as options? That the person polled had to come up with “abortion” as a choice to vote for on the poll? Most people would probably think they were being asked to rate only those itemized in the question itself. If the question read did list abortion as an issue then that would be a different picture altogether.
I couldn’t say as I’m not really a supporter of either of the remaining candidates but will vote for the Dem nominee in November.
But she has obviously appealed in some ways to a significant portion of the voters in the Democratic Party primaries and caucuses around the country. I may not recognize WHY she has been able to appeal to them but I damn sure better recognize that she HAS appealled to them and react accordingly.
That is, don’t dismiss them all as shmucks, idiots, no-brainers, or whatever. You can do that but those folks will still have the vote in November.
I’d like to have an actual Dem victory in November not another purity contest where we lose but retain our whatever. (It damn sure ain’t principles)
Hm. looks like I may have misread your previous comment.
I agree with you about privacy, that’s Roe v. Wade.
FWIW, O’Connor used the “undue burden” test in Casey and Lee v. Weisman. IANAL, but Jan Crawford Greenburg argues in her SUPREME CONFLICT that Casey puts choice on more solid legal footing than it was before on “Roe.”
What is smart about what she is doing? And, for that matter, what is so tough about her? Staying around and making up bullshit about the numbers is tough? I think it’s tough to stand up and let go if you really believe in this “party” bullshit.
Thanks dakine and Fern, I was actually going for snark there. Failed, I see. I agree completely with both your points.
1,854 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Let me see if I’ve got this right, I hafta stop tellin’ the truth about “she who should be forever nameless” because some of her supporters who are only supporting her because she is female will vote for Senator McCrazy if she tells ‘em to??!! What the fuck??!!!
Now let’s be really clear here…there is a core of supporters for Mrs. Bill who don’t care enough about abortion rights, the war in Iraq, the condition of the economy, the Bill of Rights, women’s rights and climate change to vote for the Democratic nominee for President? And that core of supporters will vote for the outright fascist candidate if the junior Senator from New York tells ‘em too??!! Does this mean that if the Democratic Party and the Democratic base of the party don’t give her what she wants, she will effectively endorse Crazy John McCain? Can we figure this out tagether here, is a substantial portion of the “women’s vote” bein’ used by a female candidate to extort some kind of concessions to right wing powers to marginalize the grass roots progressive base of the Democratic Party?
Come on Sister Hamsher, it’s your moment to stand up…are you tellin’ the good folks at FDL that they hafta watch a right wing corporate shill use a mindless block of female voters to intimidate the Democratic Party back into the 19th century?
I can’t believe I’m hearin’ this…turn on the house lights, I wanna meet the scriptwriter!!
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THE FIGHT HAS JUST COME INTO YOUR LIVINGROOM!!
Ok, this sexist pig has to go fix dinner for his bride. CU
excellent point.
unless we’re supposed to pretend that’s not how we see it? hoping someone has a better suggestion.
Snark is a tricksy thing, indeed.
How do you deal with people who live in a constant state of denial?
And are always finding things that aren’t there?
Jesus H. Christ on a God damned crutch…that’s what I get for takin a nap in the afternoon!!
Listening to Clinton in debate, I have the impression of someone who knows her shit, who can speak articulately, with depth, on a variety of topics. And she’s a tough nut to stay in this race despite the freaking beating she has received from her own party.
Who is Joan Walsh from Salon? I saw her on Hardball and couldn’t believe my ears…will Hillary not take responsibility for anything she says?
I hate it when a little kid hits someone and the other person calls them out, and then that same little kid acts victimized. really really immature.
I’m also appalled at the analogy that people are claiming that an anti war candidate cannot win during wartime. They used Nixon as their example, but excuse me I think the Dems were in power during the war and that is why they lost to Nixon. I think the same will hold for Repubs during this war of Bush’s choice. The party launching the war will pay.
Why oh why can’t I get paid thousands of dollars for my opinion, Chris Matthews?
Amy Goodman interviewed Utah Phillips in Jan 2004 and played it today. He has much to say, including some reflections that are just as true today as they were then. He also has an interesting perspective about men, women and feminism that I think are well suited to this and any other discussion involving human behaviour. And I think anyone who considers themselves a feminist will be pleasantly not surprised at the wisdom of his words.
Utah Phillips on Democracy Now!
50 minutes and worth their weight in gold imo.
which is why I don’t believe it when a professional speaker says she “misspoke” there’s a pattern!….
WELL! WILL YOU CHECK IT OUT??? CNN is highlighting McCain’s lobbyist ties. Whatever could be up with that??? They’re arguing about it, but Cafferty has it right. It’s re the MoveOn ad highlighting Charlie Black. Could it be that MSM is going to like, get , ACCURATE????
note to self: must calm down fantasy hopes.
You have to kiss a lot of ugly frogs to get your own show :)
Joan Walsh has been stumping for “hil” since the beginning, but she does it while stating she’s “neutral”. I’m so DONE with her. I used to like her. But her support for Clinton has been dishonest and, imho, Liebermanesque, in that what she says and what she’s doing are 2 polar opposite things. I dumped her as a result of this primary season, tho i still go to Salon for Glenn’s stuff. Walsh and Ferarro are in the trash bin of women I used to deeply respect, PRE HILLARY!
odd how Clinton’s seem to be able to so easily bring out the worst in folks, huh?
amen.
and so should ending the war, and so should our right to privacy, and so should habeas corpus, and so should preventing torture, and so should universal health care, and so should an economy that isn’t designed to exploit, and so should a foreign policy based on something other than imperialism and so should the ideals of equality and self governance and …..
the problem isn’t our values, it’s how easily we compromise them.
Personally .. Bill is going to do whatever he is going to do .. Hillary can stay in as long as she wants .. I just want T-Mac and Lanny Davis off the TV
I gotcher mis-spoke right here, and it’s tearing us apart on the toobz.
So. How is this different from the Obama supporters who have gone on record for months now saying that if Clinton got the nomination they would stay home?
How shall we speak to those, considerable numbers of people, who support her and do not see her as a facist bitch? Shall we kick them to the curb? Ridicule them for their stupidity?
Careful now. Because things change. It could easily be your candidate who next “misspeaks” or creates some gaffe or suffers some public embarrasment. If condemning people who don’t agree with you is the way to go, you may find yourself on the pointy end of the stick next.
Our values are what we SAY – often not what we DO.
Ok we seem to agree that baring something happening to Obama then Hilary should leave the race soon.
When? the longer we wait before the convention the more time we give Hilary to organize/bribe Florida and Michigan’s contested delegations she might try and start a fight at the convention and claim Obama has to pick her as VP, Supreme Court whatever. I’m thinking after Puerto Rico votes, but I’m open to ideas.
How do we force her out Howard Dean seems to be joining the Spineless Ones now if he won’t we will but we do seem to lack tack sometimes.
I’m glad it is a high priority for some young women.
While we are speculating about where and how the Pro-Choice issue falls with young women, I agree that probably a lot of younger voters do take that right for granted. But, I’m also wondering about two things.
One, there are a lot of really smart, spunky young women out there are enjoying an opportunity for self-power that women in other generations did not easy access to. I’m basing this on conversations with my 25-year old daughter who moved to DC and her peers. They take responsabilty for themselves – protection — and don’t look to the guys to necessarily take care of them.
Two, the Not So Smart young women, like the unmarried girl who lives next to me with her parents, who is pregnant for the second time, apparently wants to keep having babies. He exboyfriend’s parents are raising her first child. I’m telling you, she is not concerned about Right of Choice issues. Thank God(dess), she probably doesn’t vote. I bet this month’s mortgage on it.
well done.
Very well said, Selise.
To many dems (for my anti authoritarian tastes) want and need direction from the top down. Supporters are not going to give up fighting when they hear their favorite candidate continue the battle cry.
I don’t think this should fully excuse a lot of destructive conversation between individuals (myself included).
We all need to do much better.. and so do the folks at the top.
ding.
Not having choice, could also encompass an eventual law saying you may only have one child, because the State says so. It goes both ways. It’s not just about abortion.
Well said. There are no one-trick ponies here.
1,854 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen CarolynU:
“Listening to M*Clinton in debate, I get the impression of someone who knows her shit can speak articulately, in depth on a number of topic…”
…and will encourage people to vote for some one who hasn’t any of those intellectual tools and doesn’t believe in anything that the Democratic Party stands for! Wow, how can anyone argue that “she who should forever remain nameless” is a Democrat and should have ANY influence in the future of our country?
Tell me again now who are the sexists and whose politics include a vision of humanity that includes everyone?
KEEP THE FAITH AND WAKE UP BEFORE THEY GET YOUR CHILDREN!!
Or, if we want to push the Margaret Atwood direction, that YOU must have children and that other people cannot.
There are also movements afoot to outlaw birth control – all of it. Can you just see that?!
Your math skills obviously exceed mine, Norske. From where I sit, nearly 50% of the Democratic voters in the country have expressed a preference for Hillary Clinton. How exactly do we make it over that 270 hump and tell them to go fuck themselves at the same time?
Enquiring minds, etc. etc.
well said. that’s a much better and truer way to see it. thanks.
I have never supported Clinton, and I despise the campaign she has run. Having said that, she has a lot of support among the kind of Dems who show up to GOTV, especially women my (middle)age. It would help if they were psyched come fall. I do not think she should or will be the Veep pick. But Obama needs to do something dramatic to bring the party together.
I liked his riff on Team of Rivals. He could publicly say that Clinton would be his first nomination to the Supreme Court if he is elected. It would give her a big plum if she wants it, she would never have to campaign again, and she could make life miserable for the Roberts/Scalia/Alito/Thomas block.
She is a smart, wonky, hardworking lawyer. She has what Sandra O’Connor had, which is practical life experience in politics. All the current justices came from appeals courts. The prospect of her appointment would remind people how important choice is as an issue in this campaign, and perhaps it would satisfy her troops. She might never be Chief Justice, but she could have a big impact on the law.
It seems to me that Rachel Madow is right, that Hillary Clinton will find a way to take her candidacy all the way to the convention and that there will be no reconciliation. From the arguments that her supporters have made, they would not vote for Obama, whether Hillary Clinton endorsed him or not. I have not been able to understand their dislike for Obama and do not wish to ascribe it to the lowest of reasons, but it is definitely there. I am not optimistic about the future of the Democratic Party or putting together again the “special interest groups” which have comprised it over the past few decades. So, at this point, it seems to me that sufficient pro-choice women will stay home in November to give the election to McCain.
I agree Hillary is tough – but her presidential campaign to date smacks more of obsessive entitlement then anything resembling smart.
My burning question is she inadvertently screwing herself out of an Obama SCOTUS appointment cause that would really be the stupid IMHO.
I have to respectfully disagree with you.
People here and elsewhere on the toobz are been torn apart for their own reasons.
There are plenty of issues to focus on. There are ways of focusing your disappointment on those who have willfully robbed this country of our former respect throughout the world.
Just. Yikes.
Have to disagree. If your positions on womens’ issues
are the same as the Dem party I don’t think you could stand to not vote. They may hold their noses but I believe they will vote for Obama. IMO
My question to those people is, “Why are there any children in foster care and not in adoptive homes? Why is there one child in foster care?” These people have no problem screeching for laws that control reproductive rights, and all other facets of life, but care not a whit for the most vulnerable among us. All full of “family values” bullshit while children spend years without a permanent home. These people don’t give a damn about children. They just want everybody to dance to their obscene tune. And pick your pocket at the same time.
Norske, I don’t buy it. I heard or read Clinton make overtures of reconciation – we will come together, our supporters will come together – fairly recently. In the last month or so. When did she encourage her supporters to vote for McCain?
And crap, here I am defending Clinton again, and I am not a Clinton supporter. But I am tired as hell of her being portrayed as destroyer of the party. She’s just a freaking candidate. Vote for her, or not. The rest will work itself out.
Those looking to see her burned at the stake may be firmly convinced of their righteousness, but it’s questionable whether this is in the best interest of a November victory for Obama.
In other words, doing dumb things that dumb people recommend is probably dumb.
I just hope people can remember that, since it’s probably hard sometimes. When an Obama supporter or a Clinton supporter says something stupid or annoying or offensive, it’s not about who they’re supporting, it’s about them being Really Stupid People. Stupid people are found everywhere. Like weeds, only not useful.
This sounds like the advice you give family members about how to deal with your crazy uncle Larry at the family reunion.
I hope you’re right, but I don’t get that from Geraldine Ferraro, and two long debates/discussions with FDL commentors who favor Hillary Clinton.
They just want lots of snowflake babies – sorta like Tribbles.
#97 and #98 have it right. If that does not work, it could be bad in
the fall… exactly the threat, among others recently mentioned, she
sends every time she opens her mouth. Not much more to it than a lot
of wish fulfilment gone sour.
And we know how well that turned out for the good ship Enterprise. *g*
1,854 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Firepup Freedom Fighters:
OK folks I’m gunna say this loud and clear and I’m gunna keep sayin’ it until they cart me off to the re-education camp: Senator Barak Obama can win the Presidency of the United States without the support of Hillary M*Clinton. In fact, the Democratic Party will be far stronger and its base far wider if she is identified for the corporate Republican that she is.
Mr. Bill has seen the handwriting on the wall and knows that if his wife doesn’t get a ride on the bandwagon this November or if Obama wins without his wife’s public endorsement, then it’s over for the both of them and their “third way” corporate fascism.
Maybe this apostasy by the two DLC corporatists will encourage Al Gore to step in and accept the VP place on the ticket with Obama.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T CUT OFF YOUR LEG BECAUSE YOU GOT A SORE TOE!!
Hillary won’t do anything until after June 3rd. And especially not before the DNC rules on MI and FL this week. Everyone should give her the room to make the right decision. I think she responds negatively to the pressure to quit; if we all cut her a little slack for another two weeks, I have the feeling she’ll come around.
I hope.
There’s trouble.
A whole generation has gone by and most of the young couldn’t pick Geraldine out of a crowd of three people. She’s just yesterday – and she hates it.
Hang in, Norske… I hope you are right.
Exactly my point – Tribbles everywhere and nobody knew what to do with them. :)
here? in River City? surely not.
1,854 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Firepup Freedom Fighters and Clinton Supporters:
Bill and Hillary M8Clinton are playin one last game of chicken with the future of the Democratic Party and they are usin’ you as the car they are willin’ ta drive off the cliff.
WAKE UP, AT LEAST YOU WILL BE AWAKE WHEN THEY TAKE YOUR CHILDREN FROM YOU!!
Where is a Klingon battlecruiser when we really need it…?
They’re all in Iraq guarding the Green Zone for McC’s next visit.
Drive by …
My eyes are watering a little
He had a show on KVMR radio in Nevada City Ca. every Sunday night, which was candy for the ears
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks-LmHAGouQ
He was a story teller in the best sense of the word and a great human being. Of the people who passed on in the last few days he is probably the least known but will be the most missed
http://www.utahphillips.org/
The question is not whether he can with without Ms. Clinton’s support. The question is whether he can win without Ms. Clinton’s supporters.
I was all on board for voting for WHICH ever Dem get’s the nod. Right up until “hil” threatened to obliterate Iran. That’s where I got off the tram.
I don’t know what we’ll really get with Obama, though I think he can do a great job just judging from how he’s run his election. I can pretty much guess what another Clinton administration would bring us. I can’t be a part of that in any form.
Utah Phillips has passed?
I watched some C-Span this morning. A couple female callers said how they planned to vote for McCain because they were so disgusted about how HRC was treated by BHO.
I don’t get it. When are they going to think about how their daughters will be treated by McCain and the SCOTUS?
- Tom
You know it really is not all about the Supreme Court. It is really all about whether we are going to have grifters like the Clintons appointing George Tenet to a White House security position as well. At some point we have to suck it up and get the the Clintons gone.
Why is our Senate Majority Leader not pro-choice? It’s like the GOP having a tax-raiser in the leadership. Choice is a core value in the Democratic party — all our leaders should be pro-choice. Sure, it’s a big tent — but leadership requires a pro-choice stand.
Time to tend to the home fires, Leader Reid. You need to focus on your re-election, so you don’t get Daschled. Democrats need a Senate Leader from a safe seat for a change.,
We need a Senate Leader who reflects core values in our party. Harry Reid is not that leader.
What the hell has he ever done to her??? He’s taken her blows quietly, he’s responded without reacting, and he’s not lobbed one negative at her IN SPITE OF the mountain of history he could have used, that the thugs will certainly use if she’s the nominee. i haven’t seen him do ANYTHING to her. He’s run a first class campaign without the mountains of mud that are there for any opponent of hers.
bob – do you think she would pull a joe lieberman?
I agree with that and wish I could retract my 1984 vote. However, I’ve heard those same sentiments, that Obama and his campaign have been unfair, that he can’t win against McCain so they won’t support him, etc.. Since the arguments don’t really hold water, it seems to me that they were never Democrats, or progressives, so much as people who identified Hillary Clinton as their alter ego’s or champion. Therefore, they don’t care who wins if it is not going to be her. Again, I hope I’m wrong.
Boy, somebody should write a post about that.
If Clinton were half the politician her supporters say she is, she would have been out of this race by Pennsylvania at the latest. But as her vote for the AUMF against Iraq and her support of that war for more than 3 years have shown, she is not. She is someone who not only makes mistakes but persists in them. This is irritating in a campaigner but would be disastrous in a President.
I’m proud as hell to be an anarchist in the mold of Utah. His mentor, Aman Hennissey (sp), said it best I think, “Anarchy is never having a cop tell you what to do.” If you listen to Amy’s interview listen very carefully to what he says about the Democratic Party at the end of the interview. He could have said it this morning. RIP Utah.
http://www.utahphillips.org/
1,854 dayz and the killin’ goez on and on and…
Citizen Hamsher:
Your math is based on the assumption that those folks who voted for Mrs. M*Clinton are voting for the candidate and not a set of values, politics or interests and would mindlessly follow her over to the fascist party. I give that 50%, at least those that are not really fascist McCain supporters, much more credit than you do , apparently.
Anyway, I’m through bein’ frightened of anyone posin’ as a Democrat who threatens to vote for the fascists if I don’t shut up…Jesus, this thing is right down ta the nuts now ain’t it?
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, AND DON’T BE AFRAID BECAUSE SOMEONE YELLS ATCHA OR CRIES AND WANTS TO TAKE HER DOLLS AND GO HOME!!
Hear, hear!
(((((TeddySF)))))
It isn’t any fun, is it? I have been doing it for months.
Why? 1] I want to win in November and it isn’t going to happen without
Hillary supporting Obama. 2] I admire her toughness. Our party needs more of it.
This thread is disturbing proof that we need to heal as a party. Escalation of anger, name calling. Deeming some heroes, other villains. Amongst us, people who generally like and respect one another, value one another’s opinions.
I’m not going to say anything negative about Obama at this point, and I’m not going to say anything negative about Clinton. Enough has been said. I am simply going to work for this tattered but still strong party. And vote for whoever the nominee is. Wish it were one of the candidates I felt enthusiastic about, but it is what it is.
Part of HRC’s problem is the Clinton bathtub ring left by her spousal
unit, we took a lot of shit for that creep and now we have to look the
other way as she imitates Nixon at his worst. They both are corrupt as
people, but have a very large following, and I do mean following in the
worst way. Who can manage their feelings for them? I cannot think of what
is more absurd, the idea of managing millions or them needing it.
Harry Reid is not a leader, period.
Honestly, I don’t think so. But her blatant ambition is definitely getting in the way of her political future.
And anyway, the Republicans wouldn’t embrace her the same way as they did Holy Joe. Too much hatred on their side.
I wish the Dems would toss Harry but they won’t – comity, you know. So we will just keep listening to him whine about not having the votes to do anything. His whine is almost as bad ad HoJo.
Reminds me of a pitcher who refuses to leave the mound after walking in 12 runs. “Toughness”, if that’s what this is, is not always a virtue.
Oh, really?
Have you seen this video of Mrs. Obama’s smackdown of Mrs. Clinton?
http://video.google.com/videos…..itesearch=
I haven’t seen anyone share this clip, but it really bothered me when I first heard it.
Double dog dare ya to watch the clip. Woof.
Probably why he goes to such lengths to defend Lieberman.
I’ll second that, Utah will be deeply missed. His generosity of spirit will be remembered by his many friends.
Dave Neiwert upstairs on Obama and the Media Immigrant bashers
She has it exactly right. The truth hurts.
I thought her comment was mean spirited.
I find it hysterical that people can listen to people they agree with and accept any crap that comes out of their mouth.
But, that’s just me.
I try to use reason and objectivity.
Sometimes. Ha!
Citizen CarolynU:
Obama has never said ANYthing untoward about Mrs. M*Clinton but she and her legions of little goblins have increasingly cranked up the volume and the slime…the more Obama holds himself above the shit she is flingin’, the angrier she gets and the closer to comin’ apart. She is playion’ a very transparent game of extortion and it won’t work unless we let her get away with it.
You don’t beat a bully by inviting her to be your Vice President, you beat a bully by ingoring her or knockin’ the snot out of her when she finally takes a swing at you…the patience and inner strength Obama has shown here is truly amazing.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T GIVE HER ANYTHING THAT DOESN’T BELONG TO HER!!
But, if she ever turns of you, I’ll be right here with some adv*l for ya.
The owner of this blog should have a suggestion box.
No, I didn’t like that at all. It reminds me of all the Republican crap during the impeachment. Many Presidents, including FDR and Lincoln, didn’t have family lives which would make ideal models and it Bills stupidity wasn’t her fault. No, it’s a cheap shot. It’s still not worth undermining Democratic chances by trying to savage the person who is beating you for the nomination.
hugs backatcha!
ditto
Hmmmm, remind us of anyone we know? Current Occupant, perhaps?
A leader must be able to admit in clear, direct language that she/he has made a mistake if they’ve made one. If they cannot, they won’t get my vote.
Seems to me that assumes that people here identify themselves as Democrats.
Hey Firepups watch Demi’s link @143…Mrs. M8Clinton ain’t gunna get invited to Mrs. Obama’s card party anytime soon!!! You got KMicjelle!!
Ah, jeez, can you only imagine?
And, who would have the time or stomach to read all of those suggestions?
You’re really funny sometimes.
(ps – Badger!)
Yes, it is a cheap shot.
And the problem with cheap shots is they can tarnish not just the target, but the party as a whole. And the person who makes the shot.
Over the last few months I’ve been letting my diurnal cycles play. Perhaps I’m merely out of sync.
Hey – it’s where I’ve spent most of life. Comfy – and great potlucks!
Anyway, when I wake up and open my eyes I see a proto-fascist rethug party and two very corporatist Dem Senators.
(I also see a remarkable propensity to blame a spouse for their partner’s decisions – even without proof she had traction over the specific decisions. Hey – maybe Monica was her fault, too.)
One Dem Senator was married to the guy who let Rubin arrange the regs that helped Rubin fleece us when Rubin vaulted over to head up Citicorp.
The other Dem Senator eagerly ran to the birth of the megacorps’ spawn: the Hamilton Project. After Rubin – the spawner-in-chief for the Hamilton Project – had already fucked us over.
Depsite his weasel words about social consequences, the Senator’s fawning presence at the birth demonstrates how eager he was (and is) to be part of the next vehicle the core DLC crowd plan to drive over our needs.
One hires Mark Penn and shills for Walmart. The other talks up Big Coal and shills for Nukemart.
And sucky as they both are, they’re infinitely better than McCain (or any of the other Rethug pretenders to be Prez).
But hey – standing in a circle firing inwards is what progressives do.
While the Rethugs won in ‘68 and ‘72 and ‘80 and….
In the meantime, seeing progressives sublimate their rage (and manifest their acalculia) in the firing circle is quite remarkable.
I’m told the film of jumpers from the Golden Gate is equally remarkable.
Hope everyone will understand if I prefer to avert my eyes from both sets of tragedies.
Just too goddamn depressing.
Hey Norske, I wanted you to see this pic from the weekend. The lady was a nurse at Phu Bai 68-69, a true sister of mercy.
I do have to say that I was put off early in the campaign when one of the candidates stated; ” “I have to say, if the most important thing to any of you is choosing someone who did not cast that vote or said his vote was a mistake, then there are others to choose from.” I felt that was quite arrogant and I immediately started examine the alternatives, just as directed.
Norske, I don’t know. Maybe you’re privy to info I have missed. More than possible, as I have largely tuned out this increasingly ugly primary since Edwards dropped out.
But. From where I sit, I see damage being done by the supporters of Clinton, and the supporters of Obama. That’s where 99% of it seems to be coming from. I don’t see either of the two candidates standing flinging too much crap. Nor do they need to be shielded from it, as the GOP will fling plenty.
I value your comments and opinions, Norske, and I believe that we are fighting on the same side.
Yes, I identify as progressive although when someone tells me they are conservative I like to look them in the eys and say very casually I’m far left. So far they just veer off.
((Quaker girl))
Why was it mean spirited? She was referring to her own house being in order or did I miss the sound clip where she mentioned senator clinton by name?
1,854 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Raven:
Hee-hee, I got on this thread a bit late…welcome back, I gotta work but in answer to yer statement about the assumption that everyone on FDL is a Democrat or Democratic Party supporter, your point is well taken and I would like to expand the tent and say that those who are die hard FDLers are simply anti-fascists and that’s what the Democratic Party platform should say and that’s what its candidates should run on. Mrs. M*Clinton would melt if she said a bad thing about the fascists.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNTION, THE BASTARDS HAVE PENETRATED THE PERIMETER!!
jane – i did not read all the comments, so if someone else already made this point, my apologies: hilzoy made an important about hillary’s “exit from the stage” this past friday.
while i recognize your point, that this has to be well “managed”, nothing in senator clinton’s behavior would indicate that she is planning or even open to a graceful exit from this primary contest. she has made it abundantly clear that she plans on taking this to the convention, and until she says otherwise, i’m taking her word on it.
Why was it mean spirited? She was referring to her own house being in order or did I miss the sound clip where she mentioned senator clinton by name?
Quite understandable. Mr. Obama opts for an economic advisor, Austan Goolsby from the Chicago School, a place which I believe should receive the Carthaginian treatment after reading Naomi Klein’s “Shock Economics”.
Well, you could be right. I don’t have any idea of when it occurred or the context. It could easily have slammed half of the Republican candidates. In that case, the only thing which would have made it a decent statement is due to the hypocracy of the party that wants to tell everyone how to live their lives. Still, it is reminiscent of a lot of the stuff I used to hear from Republicans, and even more bogus than the, “if you can’t be loyal to your wife, how can you be trusted to run the government stuff.” I wish she hadn’t said it.
further evidence that she does not intend to exit gracefully: her supporters.
(bows) Konichiwah, Wobbs
I never took you as a naive person.
C’mon.
I am searching for a longer clip.
Thanks for the link to the pic…give her a big one for me when ya see ‘er again. And let me know when you folks are gunna have another soiree or LZ Freedom thing…Mrs. Norske and I would love ta crash yer party if we got enough notice.
I thought it was mean spirited. Watch out Michelle. Wouldn’t want that smug bubble to burst.
barring knowing or having heard the context, I will refrain from making any judgments. I have long learned how much assumptions make asses out of men/women
assume = ass + u + me
Well, it doesn’t change my vote or support, but it goes as one “aw shit” against someone who has otherwise been impressive.
Call me what you wish. I listened to the clip and even the media outlet that carried it made no mention of her slamming or insulting senator Clinton. If you were offended or thought it offensive, it may be just your personal interpretation (though it is lacking context)
Was the 85th Evac at Phu Bai then? I left the 85th Evac in December of ‘67 and I understand they moved north in support of the Jarheads up by Hue
My queation was HOW was it offensive not if you found it offensive. I just didn’t hear her referring to the senator in the comments before or after the remark.
bom dia SD
how are you?
I don’t know. Without going back and watching the clip again, it was titled as Mrs. Obama commenting on Mrs. Clinton, and she was saying if you can’t keep your house in order, you can hardly run the country.
Ummm, who else would she be talking about?
And since when is that an appropriate response about a woman whose husband has cheated? That the woman should have done something differently, should have been a better wife?
No complaints.
Someone titled the clip that but did she actually target the senator in her comments? I have watched 3 separate clips and have yet to see where before or after her remark, clinton was mentioned.
I’ll have to ask her. She was there for Hamburger Hill so it was a bit after you I guess. Mostly Cav and 101st although she did have a couple of funny jarhead stories.
I’ll bring the salt….
You’re right. I went back and looked at the clip. No mention of the Clintons. But who was she referring to, I wonder?
It seems Media Matters has weighed in on this
Here is the excerpt of her speech where the comment was made:
I didn’t mean to call you a name.
I apologize.
I couldn’t find the longer clip that I had heard earlier.
You don’t have to agree with me, but since Mrs. Obama is not the candidate and was making a speech about why her husband should be president, and the clip was found under the search result for Michelle Obama on Hillary Clinton and I’m assuming (ha ha ha) that if her husband wins we’re not talking about her running the household help at the Whitehouse….I believe whe was talking about Hillary.
Whether I’m wrong or right does not affect anything on this planet or the universe for that matter.
That’s a lot of salt. Got a couple of those humongous haulers?
What is it with these Friedman people? Wasn’t Chile enough of an eye opener?
Glad to hear/read that. Weebits is doing great (gettign bigger everyday). But lil bit (the pup) tore a tendon in her knee so she is on anti-inflammatory meds and has to stay off her leg so mr and I are camping out on the floor downstairs with her.
Thank you for finding that. Context is everything.
Could it be that Michelle is simply talking about how the Obamas have juggled parenting and campaigning, and not slighting Hillary ?
In context it does sound rather different. Very different.
Thank you.
Read my #189 where the whole context of the speech is given via media matters.
Don’t worry, I’ve been called worse and on this blog no less *g*
West coast alert – KO up on Countdown with Richard Clark for all you multi-taskering pups.
this pro-choice woman will not vote mccain.
(((Petro)))
that was certainly my interpretation especially after reading an actual excerpt of the speech over at Media Matters. Seems this was pushed as an attack on hillary meme quite a bit.
If she had insulted her she should have been taken to task for it but that is not what happened here. As usual google is our friend.
Good point. Let’s make it a new salt march!
(and I think the Friedman people are insulated: they whore, we get the social disease.)
Who wants to bring the Rome plows?
More than welcome. As a grad student, I learned long ago the importance of context before drawing conclusions.
I got a coupla Hockey Sticks … *g*
((( kirk )))
de nada
Those lil bits!
Good enough!
(((Petro)))
If Weebits is anything like my crew she’s eating and sleeping. Period. If I want a lap lump I gotta go scoop one up who’s already out like a light. Warm and muggy and felines see that as eat and sleep weather. Midnight is party time.
* lifts head up * wipes drool from face *
Salt March!? Where?
Don’t have a cow, man ! *g*
The Night of the Hunter!
*sigh* yep they wear my heart out. She took off running and in mid-stride her leg just gave and she started dragging her foot. Scared the shit out of mr. He picked her up (she is 80 lbs) and carried her home.
((((( WB )))))
If Michelle wants to diss Hillary, she would not do so subtly … IMHO
Probably why I like ‘em so much.
McCow!!!111
Yeah well, ‘facts’ take away the “self- righteous indignation” spiel … *g*
I love being Abbott to your Costello … *g*
she is sleeping like a rock but if she is moving around and spots mr or I, she starts yowling *g*
Ah, been waitin’ for you. Folks are gonna start throwin’ stuff at me if I don’t get off this. Go watch today’s Democracy Now! Utah Phillips in 2004 spoke to what we were saying yesterday about the unitary executive. Makes a direct reference to the Weimar Republic and what has been going on the last couple decades.
For the salt march ya gotta bring yer own gunny sack full.
They can also wreak havoc on your grades if you choose to ignore them.
Kirk, the salt march that Gandhi began, showed the British they were up against a force far greater than they could ever match, much less defeat …
I had a 125 pounder that snapped his leg in half. They put in big ass rods that had to be cleaned at least twice a day. Big lug recovered and made it to a ripe old age.
That was indeed the great awakening for the Empire that the sun never
shatset upon.If you let it load you can drag the bar ahead and skip the news.
I hope you’re not saying I’m being self righteous.
Whoa, Scott Mc Clellan throwin numb nuts under the bus.
OMG … anyone watching KO
((((( Demi )))))
I was imitating Colbert … miss him and Jon a lot …
• McClellan charges that Bush relied on “propaganda” to sell the war.
• He says the White House press corps was too easy on the administration during the run-up to the war….McClellan repeatedly embraces the rhetoric of Bush’s liberal critics and even charges: “If anything, the national press corps was probably too deferential to the White House and to the administration in regard to the most important decision facing the nation during my years in Washington, the choice over whether to go to war in Iraq.
“The collapse of the administration’s rationales for war, which became apparent months after our invasion, should never have come as such a surprise. … In this case, the ‘liberal media’ didn’t live up to its reputation. If it had, the country would have been better served.”
• He admits that some of his own assertions from the briefing room podium turned out to be “badly misguided.”
• The longtime Bush loyalist also suggests that two top aides held a secret West Wing meeting to get their story straight about the CIA leak case at a time when federal prosecutors were after them — and McClellan was continuing to defend them despite mounting evidence they had not given him all the facts.
• McClellan asserts that the aides — Karl Rove, the president’s senior adviser, and I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby, the vice president’s chief of staff — “had at best misled” him about their role in the disclosure of former CIA operative Valerie Plame’s identity.
* [A]fter Hurricane Katrina, the White House “spent most of the first week in a state of denial,” and he blames Rove for suggesting the photo of the president comfortably observing the disaster during an Air Force One flyover. McClellan says he and counselor to the president Dan Bartlett had opposed the idea and thought it had been scrapped.
Channeling nanant with digg reminder for Jane’s spirited pro-choice-women-vote-for-mccain post and fascinating comments.
ack! my heart would have fallen out of my chest. as is, I’m a mess with her just limping around the house. I give her these dratted pills but i’m also giving her holistic medicine to counter the negative effects of the anti imflammatory stuff.
Yep, Utah starts at 10 minutes in. I recorded it so I can put it on a disc. That way I got to watch it twice. Need more like him. “You guys gotta get organized.”
I didn’t mean to quote Raven … not sure how that happened … putting away half drunk bottle o’ single malt …
1,854 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Firepup Freedom Fighters:
As this thread dies so should the fear that Mrs. M*Clinton is relevant in anyway to who wins the Presidency in November. Watch KO and listen to what Clusterfuck’s Scott McClellan has ta say about propaganda and the war in Iraq…. then read Dave Neiwert’s post upstairs…then listen to Michelle Obama’s testemony about family values and politics.
Hello Firepups, we don’t need no fuckin’ Clintons anymore!!
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, AND DON’T LET THE BANDWAGON RUNOVER YOU AFTER SHE THREW YA OFF HER BUS!!
Nice of Scott to come clean … now watch him get flamed for doing so, by both sides …
Wobbly, do you know about Bach Flower Remedies ?
They deal with injury WAY better than we do. Just pour on the goo goo and do what the vet says. Anti-inflams are your friend.
No, what are those?
Steroidal or non-steroidal anti-inflamatories?
Scotty’s TDS appearance left no hint that this was a’comin’…
will do
That’s about the only quote of mine you’ll be bandying about!
i had not seen it, demi. Thanks for pointing that out. I am sorry to have been wrong about that, but it’s pretty minute compared to the things “hil” has said about Obama. Or implied. And it has a ring of truth to it as well. I don’t want to get into a debate here with anyone at the Lake. i KNOW many are supporting her, and I don’t understand how they can’t see her for what she is, but I DO respect anyones right to their opinions. I don’t begrudge anyone backing her. I just don’t understand it.
But thank you demi, honestly, for pointing this out.
pax
Well, the good thing about those is that they can’t do any harm…
Cowabonga! Man, the corporate dogs are gonna have exploding heads all over the place. Sure am glad I don’t have cable so I don’t hafta listen to all that whine with no cheese.
Hey there Brother Raven, it looks like “we don’t need no stinkin’ Clinton’s” ta get rid of the bastards and fascist fellow travelers. Keep the faith, brother and put me on the levee for the next LZ Freedom soiree.
Oh, darn, I was in the kitchen and I missed it.
I always had a feeling the McClellan was a bit uncomfortable lying for Bush.
What’d he say?
No dude, I love what you have to say and learn a lot from your comments … my cousin served in Nam and came back pretty messed up and the Gov’t left him to fend for himself. With all of us sticking by him, he’s done good for himself and has made peace with his actions … I was happy to help him through that phase with my own knowledge …
Does yer pup have problem…my young Westie has been fightin’ some exema but I think we’ve beaten it now.
Please read up on them … they’re great for humans and pets … send me a note on FB if you want to discuss them further …
non-steroidal
We are doing conservative treatment first and if she is not bearing weight on it by the beginning of next week, we move on to the next step
I thought it did … he was misled and will hang Rove out to dry, along with all of BushCo …
thanks, I will (read and contact you)
*stands. and applauds.*
WELL said Norske. WELL said.
That’s true but they work amazingly well when the diagnosis is on point …
Hmmm, wonder what the wh failed to do re: scotty’s mommy’s campaign.
Relieved to hear that. Quite gun shy about corticosteroids.
Yea, the little cocker rescue just chews and scratches. I have her on an elimination diet and this stuff
It’s improved her coat but not her scratching. But, she stops when she is being held. I can’t type worth a shit anyway but it’s harder with her on my lap. All in all we are not to worried because she is not breaking the skin and she is one happy. . .well Lil Bit!
I cannot faith for Dana to explain this!
Never mind, Raven. Saw your comment after I asked.
Thanks.
I wonder if he knows anything about the upcoming – maybe- Rove testimonies?
What’s he got to lose? I always wondered when the insiders would turn on the administration. No time like the present.
Lil bit also gets Dinovite
Richard Clarke on KO …
we have a great vet. She showed me on the model of the knee what was going on and how she was checking for excess movement, etc. lil bit is putting more weight on her foot than she did yesterday, so it looks promising
Mitch McConnell and BoxTurtle say:
“Ignore Clarke – he’s trying to sell books.”
Worse than kids these critters are.
I respectfully disagree … Clarke will be a major witness in the eventual imprisonment of BushCo …
He’s still good for an historical perspective.
We want weight on it?
Wait – forgot the /s…
I met Clarke in Menlo Park last year, and have, and have read, all his books.
Tremendous guy.
Scotty is playing with fire. He’s obstinate, but not particularly smart. This could get interesting.
but not particularly smart”
It’s in the job description
He’s actually in a very good position. In his position, he is not in the decision making process, he’s just told what to say about them …
Betcha he knows about the ear piece. I heard the normandy bleed-through and thought it was Bartlett’s voice.
The vast majority of women who lived through the days before abortion was legal — wouldn’t ever vote for McCain. Then again, most such women can’t get pregnant anymore. And we see what happens then — just like the true life “Jane Roe” — they change their minds — when they, personally, are in no danger anymore.
I live in California — I don’t worry personally, because CA had legal abortion before Roe, or so I heard. I lived in Oklahoma at the time, and can assure you, I saw many teenagers who either had back-alley abortions, or had children they didn’t want, and were ill-prepared to raise.(I was about 19 when Roe vs. Wade was made law.)
I think the main problem is just like the anger about the war. Why were there massive protests in 1969 … and none now? Because there is no draft. Why aren’t there many upset with the prospect of abortion being made illegal? Because it IS legal now. And younger Americans simply don’t think of — or even imagine — a day when they will be drafted or be denied an abortion.
And, of course, many Republicans have had abortions, too — it’s just that many don’t admit it. But they do. Oh well, they can afford to travel across the country, if necessary, to get one, if they need it.
‘Hillary Clinton’s exit from the stage needs to be carefully managed’
How about a mutually-orchestrated ‘kumbaya’ process which condemns the evils of racism AND sexism, while documenting that the Dems, although far from perfect, have been much better than the Rethugs on social equality.
we want evidence that she is putting SOME weight on it as opposed to not putting or trying to put any weight on it
Climate change missing from the list. Why not put it off for another little while anyway; we need gas money.
And while Roe V. Wade is the endangered species, the ruination of its ecological niche, the destruction of the fourth amendment, misinterpretations of the 2nd amendment, limitations on the first amendment, and the fast and loose flip flops on state’s rights when and if it’s convenient, the establishment of an Imperial Presidency, i.e. the Supreme Court and the whole range of mischief and ruin a Supreme Court with McCain hires on its bench are capable of, are at stake.
Foreign policy, can we afford to have a President who can’t tell the difference between Al Qaeda and the nation of Iran, who has put forth no plan to pay for our ongoing adventure in Iraq? nor mechanism for keeping our armed forces staffed (other than bribing soldiers to stay in by making mere one term service inelgible for GI bill educational benefits, even if that one term were spent in the field fighting McCain’s war).
I could go on, but I do believe that posters should hammer away at the information and attempt to keep the discourse that leads to the November elections purposeful.
Each day that passes exposes more of John McCain’s weaknesses; his anti-choice stance on abortion is just one weakness and a complete list would be rather long but in sum his biggest problems are Bush and his second biggest problem is that he’s a Republican. Bush is politically toxic and the GOP moniker only slightly less so. After these two factors consider the Iraq War, budget deficit, cost of oil, out sourcing as an affect of globalization, economic inequality, crisis in health care, global warming, corruption and hypocrisy in the GOP, and so on…a long list. Call me an optimist but I don’t think the November election will be close and I doubt if there’s much that McCain can do to change the present situation. McCain and Republicans are going to be humiliated in November.