Comments on: Monday Late Nite: The Two Faces of McCain. http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/26/monday-late-nite-the-two-faces-of-mccain/ Firedoglake weblog Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:01:39 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Patricia http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/26/monday-late-nite-the-two-faces-of-mccain/#comment-1464231 Patricia Tue, 27 May 2008 05:49:40 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/26/monday-late-nite-the-two-faces-of-mccain/#comment-1464231 <p>My father served in the Pacific before and through the war. Mother followed him up and down the West Coast, working as a telephone operator, waiting for those infrequent leaves. We have a wonderful street photo of them strolling together on a Seattle avenue. Daddy went to college on the GI bill as soon as he retired from the Navy, and he became a teacher.<br /> My husband served in ‘Nam and he went to college on the GI bill. They both got the same amount, $347.00 a month during the school year. In Daddy’s case, the money paid for his tuition & housing & a large family. In my husband’s time, we had to rely on our parents to pay tuition and books, while the GI money paid for our subsidized housing and food. Both Daddy and my husband worked hard during the summers to make money to make ends sorta meet.<br /> That same opportunity should be available to our service men and women, no question about it.</p> My father served in the Pacific before and through the war. Mother followed him up and down the West Coast, working as a telephone operator, waiting for those infrequent leaves. We have a wonderful street photo of them strolling together on a Seattle avenue. Daddy went to college on the GI bill as soon as he retired from the Navy, and he became a teacher.
My husband served in ‘Nam and he went to college on the GI bill. They both got the same amount, $347.00 a month during the school year. In Daddy’s case, the money paid for his tuition & housing & a large family. In my husband’s time, we had to rely on our parents to pay tuition and books, while the GI money paid for our subsidized housing and food. Both Daddy and my husband worked hard during the summers to make money to make ends sorta meet.
That same opportunity should be available to our service men and women, no question about it.

]]> By: katymine http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/26/monday-late-nite-the-two-faces-of-mccain/#comment-1464126 katymine Tue, 27 May 2008 04:30:16 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/26/monday-late-nite-the-two-faces-of-mccain/#comment-1464126 <p><a href="http://www.salon.com/opinion/keillor/2008/05/21/memorial_day/" rel="nofollow">Mutterings over the graves of soldiers</a> by Garrison Keillor</p> <blockquote><p>On Memorial Day we’ll hear about men who gave their lives for their country, but many lives were not given, they were taken, and taken stupidly and carelessly. And there has been great public piety about those men and their “sacrifice” on the part of politicians who blithely sacrificed them.</p></blockquote> Mutterings over the graves of soldiers by Garrison Keillor

On Memorial Day we’ll hear about men who gave their lives for their country, but many lives were not given, they were taken, and taken stupidly and carelessly. And there has been great public piety about those men and their “sacrifice” on the part of politicians who blithely sacrificed them.

]]> By: newtonusr http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/26/monday-late-nite-the-two-faces-of-mccain/#comment-1464120 newtonusr Tue, 27 May 2008 04:20:52 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/26/monday-late-nite-the-two-faces-of-mccain/#comment-1464120 <p>Sounds like great debate fodder. Tackled on live teevee.</p> Sounds like great debate fodder. Tackled on live teevee.

]]> By: cinnamonape http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/26/monday-late-nite-the-two-faces-of-mccain/#comment-1464117 cinnamonape Tue, 27 May 2008 04:18:55 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/26/monday-late-nite-the-two-faces-of-mccain/#comment-1464117 <p>Anyone causing problems outside of the Shiite areas is “al Qaida in Iraq”…that’s particular true in those areas where we’ve made deals with the Sunni sheikhs to undertake their own security (i.e. Sunni militias). These used to be al Qaida…but they are on our side now…except for the ones that aren’t. </p> <p>In the Shiite areas they are “minions of Iran”. Of course, it’s hard to sort them out sometimes…as McCain found on his last visit to Iraq.</p> <p>Hey, maybe McCain needs to go back to Iraq so that he can figure out the difference between al Qaida and “those groups supplied by Iran”. How many <strike>photo-ops</strike> visits has he made before this? He still doesn’t know the distinction between Sunnis and Shiites?? Maybe he needs another refresher for his memory issues?</p> Anyone causing problems outside of the Shiite areas is “al Qaida in Iraq”…that’s particular true in those areas where we’ve made deals with the Sunni sheikhs to undertake their own security (i.e. Sunni militias). These used to be al Qaida…but they are on our side now…except for the ones that aren’t.

In the Shiite areas they are “minions of Iran”. Of course, it’s hard to sort them out sometimes…as McCain found on his last visit to Iraq.

Hey, maybe McCain needs to go back to Iraq so that he can figure out the difference between al Qaida and “those groups supplied by Iran”. How many photo-ops visits has he made before this? He still doesn’t know the distinction between Sunnis and Shiites?? Maybe he needs another refresher for his memory issues?

]]> By: fourlegsgood http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/26/monday-late-nite-the-two-faces-of-mccain/#comment-1464116 fourlegsgood Tue, 27 May 2008 04:18:09 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/26/monday-late-nite-the-two-faces-of-mccain/#comment-1464116 <p>He’s sick at heart that the war my sink his ambition to be president.</p> <p>And that’s about it.</p> He’s sick at heart that the war my sink his ambition to be president.

And that’s about it.

]]> By: egregious http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/26/monday-late-nite-the-two-faces-of-mccain/#comment-1464108 egregious Tue, 27 May 2008 04:15:41 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/26/monday-late-nite-the-two-faces-of-mccain/#comment-1464108 <p>On Memorial Day I remember my dad who was in the pacific in WWII and nearly drowned in the typhoon, Mom’s cousin Trevor whose plane got shot down, Uncle Don whose ship’s sonar pinged what they believed to be the lost Titanic, and my grandfathers who were in WWI, one in France getting shot at and one serving here. </p> <p>They knew what they were fighting for. But I cry to think of the wasted deaths and the broken human lives that are the result of the lies that got us into this war in Iraq.</p> On Memorial Day I remember my dad who was in the pacific in WWII and nearly drowned in the typhoon, Mom’s cousin Trevor whose plane got shot down, Uncle Don whose ship’s sonar pinged what they believed to be the lost Titanic, and my grandfathers who were in WWI, one in France getting shot at and one serving here.

They knew what they were fighting for. But I cry to think of the wasted deaths and the broken human lives that are the result of the lies that got us into this war in Iraq.

]]> By: nonplussed http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/26/monday-late-nite-the-two-faces-of-mccain/#comment-1464109 nonplussed Tue, 27 May 2008 04:15:41 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/26/monday-late-nite-the-two-faces-of-mccain/#comment-1464109 <p>Most assuredly! The divide between Officer and Enlisted in the Navy is (or used to be) quite pronounced. But Admiral’s have a special area on ships known as Admiral’s Country”, which was even better than mere “Officer’s Country” from which the motley Enlisted riffraff were forbidden, lest they abscond with the wardroom silver (The Naval Officer’s Manual used to contain that admonition in the 70’s, the wag’s line was, “The Navy, 200 years of tradition unhampered by progress”. </p> <p>Ashore Admiral’s Housing always consisted of older large stately homes in Norfolk, great houses in beautiful locations in Oahu, they have good bennies. Admirals cruise around in cars with their headlights on in the day and you could get in trouble for failing to salute the car! (if the guy was a prick, I’ve actually seen it happen).</p> Most assuredly! The divide between Officer and Enlisted in the Navy is (or used to be) quite pronounced. But Admiral’s have a special area on ships known as Admiral’s Country”, which was even better than mere “Officer’s Country” from which the motley Enlisted riffraff were forbidden, lest they abscond with the wardroom silver (The Naval Officer’s Manual used to contain that admonition in the 70’s, the wag’s line was, “The Navy, 200 years of tradition unhampered by progress”.

Ashore Admiral’s Housing always consisted of older large stately homes in Norfolk, great houses in beautiful locations in Oahu, they have good bennies. Admirals cruise around in cars with their headlights on in the day and you could get in trouble for failing to salute the car! (if the guy was a prick, I’ve actually seen it happen).

]]> By: cinnamonape http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/26/monday-late-nite-the-two-faces-of-mccain/#comment-1464101 cinnamonape Tue, 27 May 2008 04:11:54 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/26/monday-late-nite-the-two-faces-of-mccain/#comment-1464101 <p>I was thinking this…as Petraeus has said that he will make another “evaluation” in September. </p> <p>But they also would have to justify “staying” at the same time as “declaring Victory”. It’ll mean that they will have to draw down to a level…but then stop…keeping McCain’s “permanent (okay, only 100 years) force” in place to protect al Maliki’s puppet regime from Civil War. They won’t bother to get a new Authorizing Resolution…they’ve got a “treaty” with al Maliki that they haven’t bothered to get signed by the Senate. They’ll just keep saying that they want money and that “Democrats hate the troops”…even though they won’t be fighting al Qaida. It’ll be “terrorists trained in Iran”.</p> I was thinking this…as Petraeus has said that he will make another “evaluation” in September.

But they also would have to justify “staying” at the same time as “declaring Victory”. It’ll mean that they will have to draw down to a level…but then stop…keeping McCain’s “permanent (okay, only 100 years) force” in place to protect al Maliki’s puppet regime from Civil War. They won’t bother to get a new Authorizing Resolution…they’ve got a “treaty” with al Maliki that they haven’t bothered to get signed by the Senate. They’ll just keep saying that they want money and that “Democrats hate the troops”…even though they won’t be fighting al Qaida. It’ll be “terrorists trained in Iran”.

]]> By: cinnamonape http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/26/monday-late-nite-the-two-faces-of-mccain/#comment-1464091 cinnamonape Tue, 27 May 2008 04:04:47 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/26/monday-late-nite-the-two-faces-of-mccain/#comment-1464091 <p>For McCain there seems to be no recognition that those who serve one tour are potentially facing a war when they are serving. Once they do they are clearly eligible for all the tricks that have been played in this war…Stop-Loss, recall from Reserve Status, lengthened tours, etc. </p> <p>Many of the people which McCain argues should be eligible for the GI Bill (Vets with several re-ups) never had to fight a war like Iraq, either. Multiple years of service is irrelevant in that regard. And once in a war that single sign up has been perpetual revolving door for those unfortunate enough to be recruited in the last ten years. And where were the Repugs years ago when they had a chance to pass THEIR bill (with substantial majorities and the BUSH behind it) that they assert will retain people. It suddenly emerges this year? Where was McCain’s version of such a bill in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007? Or earlier? Republicans only presented their version in RESPONSE to the one the Democrats have presented. They are using theirs to BLOCK the Democratic Bill. It’s a filibuster…and they have no intention of passing either!</p> <p>Maybe McCain should consider the real reasons that people aren’t re-upping when they get the chance to leave. It isn’t because they have good GI Bill benefits…it’s because they are disgusted with the War, and the policies of the Pentagon and Administration that McCain hopes to perpetuate. </p> <p>McCain may not hate Vets…but he certainly doesn’t have any ideas regarding their welfare that deals with what life is like “out there”. He’s been living in his cocoon of wealth for too long to realize the exponential increases of going to college, and affording basic housing. Of course, McCain has stated he DOESN’T want Vets to go to school…he wants them to re-up, re-up, and re-up. That requires them to NOT Obtain the education and skills they seek in the better Universities in this country.</p> <p>If they get educated who will fight HIS WARS?</p> For McCain there seems to be no recognition that those who serve one tour are potentially facing a war when they are serving. Once they do they are clearly eligible for all the tricks that have been played in this war…Stop-Loss, recall from Reserve Status, lengthened tours, etc.

Many of the people which McCain argues should be eligible for the GI Bill (Vets with several re-ups) never had to fight a war like Iraq, either. Multiple years of service is irrelevant in that regard. And once in a war that single sign up has been perpetual revolving door for those unfortunate enough to be recruited in the last ten years. And where were the Repugs years ago when they had a chance to pass THEIR bill (with substantial majorities and the BUSH behind it) that they assert will retain people. It suddenly emerges this year? Where was McCain’s version of such a bill in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007? Or earlier? Republicans only presented their version in RESPONSE to the one the Democrats have presented. They are using theirs to BLOCK the Democratic Bill. It’s a filibuster…and they have no intention of passing either!

Maybe McCain should consider the real reasons that people aren’t re-upping when they get the chance to leave. It isn’t because they have good GI Bill benefits…it’s because they are disgusted with the War, and the policies of the Pentagon and Administration that McCain hopes to perpetuate.

McCain may not hate Vets…but he certainly doesn’t have any ideas regarding their welfare that deals with what life is like “out there”. He’s been living in his cocoon of wealth for too long to realize the exponential increases of going to college, and affording basic housing. Of course, McCain has stated he DOESN’T want Vets to go to school…he wants them to re-up, re-up, and re-up. That requires them to NOT Obtain the education and skills they seek in the better Universities in this country.

If they get educated who will fight HIS WARS?

]]> By: Hannibal http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/26/monday-late-nite-the-two-faces-of-mccain/#comment-1464090 Hannibal Tue, 27 May 2008 04:04:35 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/26/monday-late-nite-the-two-faces-of-mccain/#comment-1464090 <p>I’ll never forget the photo op he did in that market in Baghdad. Three soldiers died clearing that market so he could have a photo op. And eighteen Iraqis were murdered the following day, for working in that market when McCain was there. I wonder how sick in heart he is over that.</p> <p>“Gee, sorry your dad’s dead, but Senator McCain wanted his picture taken in an Iraqi market.”</p> I’ll never forget the photo op he did in that market in Baghdad. Three soldiers died clearing that market so he could have a photo op. And eighteen Iraqis were murdered the following day, for working in that market when McCain was there. I wonder how sick in heart he is over that.

“Gee, sorry your dad’s dead, but Senator McCain wanted his picture taken in an Iraqi market.”

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