I was watching a clip of Geraldine Ferraro on Fox News the other day, and the ground is definitely being tested for an appeal to Hillary's female supporters who think she's been done wrong. (We'll leave aside the supreme irony of the very architects of the anti-Clinton narrative playing the collective role of Sir Galahad here.) I watched the clip and thought "you know, if the Clinton exit isn't orchestrated well and I'm John McCain, I go straight for the women."
Krugman is thinking along the same lines:
Mr. Obama will be the Democratic nominee. But he has a problem: many grass-roots Clinton supporters feel that she has received unfair, even grotesque treatment. And the lingering bitterness from the primary campaign could cost Mr. Obama the White House.
To the extent that the general election is about the issues, Mr. Obama should have no trouble winning over former Clinton supporters, especially the white working-class voters he lost in the primaries. His health care plan is seriously deficient, but he will nonetheless be running on a far more worker-friendly platform than his opponent.
Indeed, John McCain has shed whatever maverick tendencies he may once have had, and become almost a caricature conservative — an advocate of lower taxes for the rich and corporations, a privatizer and shredder of the safety net.
But elections always involve emotions as well as issues, and there are some ominous signs in the polling data.
In Florida, in particular, the rolling estimate produced by the professionals at Pollster.com shows Mr. McCain running substantially ahead of Mr. Obama, even as he runs significantly behind Mrs. Clinton. Ohio also looks problematic, and Pennsylvania looks closer than it should. It's true that head-to-head polls five months before the general election have a poor track record. But they certainly give reason to worry.
The point is that Mr. Obama may need those disgruntled Clinton supporters, lest he manage to lose in what ought to be a banner Democratic year.
I spoke with a well-known pollster recently who said that if women think the country would be safer with McCain over Obama by 10 points on election day, she predicts that McCain will win. While it's absurd to think that McCain would be better than Obama on women's issues, these kinds of decisions are -- as Krugman says -- highly emotional. A pitch to "security moms," combined with an appeal about "elitists in the Democratic party" looking down their noses on working class women just might work.
A lot will also depend on Obama's choice of VP is. If he decides to pass over Clinton/Napolitano/Sebelius, it will probably largely determine how McCain proceeds, so I don't expect McCain to blink first. Does Obama try to go after the white male vote and shore up his military bona fides with Jim Webb? Webb's "Women Can't Fight" article will no doubt be resurrected. Does Obama try to help himself with Latino voters by picking Bill Richardson? Well, Richardson has notorious women problems (most recently his "Whizzer White" gaffe) that will come back to haunt him. Either choice leaves a huge opening for McCain to make a move.
Hell, if Obama can go after fundamentalist voters, there's no reason for McCain not to court the ladies.
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sup?
Maybe it’s a sappy sentiment but we need to come together.
St. John is the real bad guy.
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What a pickle. How did we get here and why? I call B S but am not sure on who. whom?
Fast Eddie Rendell.
He’d deliver PA.
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Bill now says there’s a media conspiracy to deny HRC the nomination.
what spork said
That is one of the best statements about this situation I’ve seen here in a while.
yep. that’s it.
Charlie Crist was one of the guests at McCain’s fake ranch. Charlie has a (fake) wife now according to the Bloomberg party photo shoot. Crist with McCain would probably put FL in the Red Column vs. either Hill or Obama (unless Crist is exposed as a gay man). Crist has fake Maverick street cred too, dontcha know (Courtesy of the MSM).
I’m puzzled by the notion that a Democrat can only be an effective campaigner if she/he is a Veep nominee …
I wish that Hillary had not played the “poor me” card. It will hurt women for years. She says she is stronger than anyone and then says they’re being mean to me. She can’t have it both ways - IMO
A sixty-something feminist, I believe that choosing Hillary would be a big mistake! First, forget Florida; I doubt that she could carry Florida either. Second, I think it’s important to slice older “feminists” into at least two camps: Those who remain angry for all of the accumulated sleights they have suffered for years; and those who would like to see a woman as President in their lifetimes, but who put a priority on evaluating candidates on their merits and on the issues. The former support Hillary; the latter favor Obama.
To offset the diehards who might stay home if Obama chooses someone else — or who might even be poorly enough informed (or angry enough to support McCain), Obama has a newly registered base of energized youth and minority voters. To implement his approach to leading this country, Obama needs team members who share his vision and can be trusted to support it. Hillary simply doesn’t make the cut on that basis; she’d be conniving to bring him down — From Day One.
Ding.
IMO-any woman who puts up with the crap that Bill put Hillary through for years is NOT fit to be president. Did she stay out of ambition? Not good enough for me. Winery gets you points off, too.
You weren’t supposed to connect the two … /s
The master of media manipulation has lost his touch and now he’s whining. Boo hoo.
And, as a 49 year old woman, I’m tired of listening to a strong, independent, rich, powerful woman whining that sexisim did her in when it was really her lack of old fashioned management skills that failed her. People management, organizational management, financial management, and knowing your market. She failed Business 101 and now, instead of owning up to being a bad manager, she’s blaming sexism. Great. As if whining helps anyone gain respect from anyone about anything.
Amen Sis !
Honestly, this type of sentiment is about to drive me away from blogs for good.
John McCain is a Republican who will continue the policies of George W Bush. He has said as much. Anyone who calls themselves a Democrats and votes for McSame is: not a Democrat, seriously deranged, or simply evil.
There is no discussion here: there is no here, here.
Sorry.
I was a johnny come lately in learning/knowing more about Obama and today I have the same curiosity about Sebelius. Just this morning was the first time I ever watched a video of her (Obama endorsement in KS). From my untrained eye as from a male pov, I feel like I saw VP potential based on person, not gender, but I want to know her better.
It will be very important for all the people mentioned in the OP like Webb, Richardson, Clinton (and Edwards among others) to play a visible and vocal role in this election. For the VP spot, I see advads and disads for each and imagine a lot will have to do with how each one becomes more recognizeable and positively regarded in coming months.
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I recently got banned from a rabid female pro- HRC blog for “hate speech” and being an “Obama thug.” The “hate speech” was simply my usual snarky criticism of her bullshit. Unpardonable Sacrilege against Hillary’s Nomination Entitlement.
I’m against alcohol too but she is an adult!
Kinda like the Big 3 blaming Toyota/Datsun for deliberately misleading the public by making superior vehicles …
Hangin at Juno dot com huh?
Absolutely right. Fuck ‘em. Who needs to win? Let’s stand on principle here.
I have to agree with Jeff Toobin’s comments on Moyers the other night. The combination of reproductive rights and the Supreme Court may well unite Dems. McCain said the other day that he supports justices in the mold of Roberts and Alito, code words for the overturning of Roe v Wade, Affirmative Action, etc. Good argument to me. The next prez has a good chance of appointing 3 or 4 people to the Supreme Court, effectively setting the tone on the court for a generation.
Bhahahahaha - - gotta clean the coffee from the screen now.
LOL … ((( Raven )))
LOL…
No, Texas Darlin’ - saw a cross-post there one day over at
ObamaIsTheDevil.comtaylormarsh.com, and followed the link.Hillary can and should continue to run for the nomination but she needs to run against McCain and not Obama at this point in order to boost her candidacy IMO. Krugman’s column blamed Obama for the division in the democratic party and said it was up to him to fix by adding Hillary to the ticket. His article left me confused because both candidates are responsible for their own campaigns and at times both have crossed the line as far as hurting the democratic party. Uniting them at this point would not do any good but instead the VP nominee should strenthen the ticket. Both Obama’s and Hillary’s could be hurt because of McCain’s service to the country and the next nominee should look for a VP who can fill that void.
See my “Diploid Dave” post at my other blog.
ROFL … you made me spew my Root Beer Float, BobbyG …
707
That is the problem, isn’t it?
I honestly do not believe the purity tests that we constantly are forcing on people are useful. I really do not see that anyone has a choice between John McCain and Generic Democrat. You do. That is your right. But I have mine as well.
Not trying to cause a problem but this issue is, IMHO, not that complex.
true. one I won’t support.
If Clinton supporters are stupid enough to cast a revenge vote, what are we supposed to do?
Hillary has shot herself in the foot so many times, it seems to me any thinking person is gonna have even more a perception that she’s not much different from the hothead McCain.
If the Clinton supporters are willing to vote against their own interests, once again, we get the government we deserve.
“Principle” killed many a fine candidate.
Run to win.
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I actually thought Krugman was more blaming Obama supporters and Clinton supporters as much or more than the actual candidates themselves.
Neither one has been very well served by their surrogates and supporters.
Damn, I was just there a bit ago.
I guess that Hillary would get a lot of the female vote but she is so disliked that she might hurt more than help. I really don’t want her as VP - would you as prez want Bill looking over your shoulder and Hillary telling you that she’s “been there, done that?”
i would always support my party’s nominee. i am starting to confuse myself. going to take a nap.
I live to serve.
;)
Did you listen to Geraldine Ferraro, and have you seen the comments on FDL by HRC supporters? They are convinced that they’ve been done wrong. And apparently there are a lot of them, since HRC still retains the support of millions, despite everything she’s done (in my view) to sabotage Obama and the Democratic Party.
Whoops!
Re-read Jane’s comment…I’m dim.
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“would you as prez want Bill looking over your shoulder and Hillary telling you that she’s “been there, done that?”
________
They’d be tryin’ to pull a Cheney Two’fer outa the Naval Observatory, upstaging him at every opportunity.
I’ve been banned from MyDD for months. Even after a supposed amnesty had occurred last week. Not that I’m broken-hearted about it.
Yup. He’ll need someone he can trust.
Go to
ObamaIsTheDevil.comtaylormarsh.com, read the thousands of vitriolic anti-Obama comments, limbic screeds that rival the depths of Wingnuttia.I think so, too, and I hate to say it. I’ve always liked Bill and I was happy for Hillary to run and wanted her to do well. I wanted to see a female prez in my lifetime but she screwed up. Too bad.
I’ll tell ya - the thing that makes me recoil at the thought of voting for HRC in the General is the fact she voted to authorize, and has NEVER admitted it was a mistake, never said “Ya know, I really booted that one, I’m really sorry and it won’t happen again.”
Instead she’s made excuses. Weak excuses at that.
How her supporters reconcile that without massive cognitive dissonance remains a mystery to me but unless and until she acknowledges her vote to authorize was nothing but a colossal blunder, I’m going to have to grab my voting wrist and drag it to the spot where I punch a hole to vote for her.
I see so little difference between she and McCain it has become a blur. She is Joe Lieberman in a pantsuit. For me, it’s that simple.
I’ve been saying that is why I could not support Hillary for over a year and I’ve gotten a big dose of “what about the supreme court” for my trouble.
Yes, and can ANYONE explain to me WHY she has supporters like she does, IN SPITE OF everything she’s said and done that is actually, fresh out of the KR playbook??? From racism to encouraging McCain votes is she’s not the nominee, to the remark re RFK’s assassination….. how could anyone not see her for what she really is and continue to back her??? I’m dying here for someone to explain that to me!!!
Yeah, ding. Like I could give a flip about the dead-end dirt road cyberdigs of Texas Darlin’ and her glandular Cast of Dozens.
Didja see that immigrant who stole the job from a hardworking white male in Wesleyan … *g*
Mayhaps I should have taken the time to read that the first time through. You have every reason to be proud. Good on you.
Hey, I wouldn’t worry about all them sweeties.
Bludgeon them senseless with Roe v. Wade, leave them alone, and they’ll come home, wagging their tails behind them.
Or, like, you know — not.
I know. I’ve heard about it, but am satisfied that I get the flic from the isolated samples I’ve seen. If I look at it too closely, I’m inclined to get stupid and think, “To hell with it, I don’t care if McCain wins.”
After four years do I really need to add a “snark” tag?
I guess it’s that bad.
Ditto.
Since Obama seems likely to be the next nominee, he might have to do more to unite the party but Hillary could and should help. Rather that attack Obama she should go after Bush and McCain. Adding her to the ticket does not necessarily help; all you have to do is read the commenter’s on Talk Left who think that the election was stolen from her. There are those who want her first on the ticket not second. I know that I have lost enormous respect for her after her Florida rantings. Somebody need to let her know that caucuses count.
It is that bad. Seems like its going to get worse. The link is worth reading.
Don’t let your mouth get you into something your ass can’t get you out of. :)
I’m almost afraid to poke my head in here.
Thanks.
It was a “character-building experience,” LOL! Everybody says ‘Gladd, you’re a real character…’
my bold.
agreed. how we got to a place where clinton is a standard bearer for pro-feminists is beyond my comprehension. imo she has done nothing to deserve it - just the opposite. a movement that is primarily concerned with understanding power relations so as to resist hierarchies - particularly patriarchy - can not be represented by clinton if what Jeff Sharlet said in yesterday’s book salon is close to true:
again, my bold
Back to the ashram witchoo.
Carter told a British anchor that it will be over after June 3rd … we’ll we how her campaign handles these next 8 days … will they go for broke or try to save her legacy …
We’re all very tired…
Hillary has blamed the Obama campaign and now the media for her problems but I have been amazed at how quiet the Obama people have been. They have re-acted to things she has said while her spokesmen (dear old Terry) have been out there babbling every day. The Obama campaign is terrific and it obviously works.
Namaste.
;)
lol … watch out for those incantations
I don’t think you’ll get an explanation. It’s too bad.
I can’t. From what I’ve read, the explanation which seemed to make some sense to me was that a large number of women over 50 have come to see Hillary as the redemption (?) from all of the sexism the’ve encountered. It seems to me that they’ve developed tunnel vision overs something. My own view is that it would be a great bonus to elect either the first able African American, or the first able woman, but either goal is a matter of straightening the deck chairs on the Titanic. We’ve got to put out real fires.
imperial view of American power
now I can’t sleep. sh*tfire.
Hey, while you are at it could you dump the “YOU HAVE WON” thing that keeps popping up. The damn thing beeps and it drives me and the dogs nuts!
No need for it here, the civility around here usually holds up pretty well. I only have to head for the bayous ever so often …
I was undecided til she said McCain would make a better commander in chief than Obama. In the face of her throwing the Democratic Party under the bus on that one, I decided for Obama. No regrets.
Maybe a snark tag after your name in the header?
-G
Off to the movies, it’s the only way to get the princess to put down the grubbin hoe and come in from the garden!
Hi!!
Obama’s apparently learnt one key rule of FDL … Do.Not.Feed. … *g*
I really thinks thats a gross oversimplification, imho.
New GritTV upstairs if you like
A rule oft violated by some of we more pugilistic lakers I guess.
She already answered that when she blamed Obama for her unfortunate comments to the Argus about why she was staying in the race. Many times during the campaign she praised McCain over Obama. Somebody the other day called her Lieberman lite but she’s been rather heavy the last few days.
“Sniper Fire” finally tipped me. Cemented by “hardworking white Americans.”
And, Cheryl and I had caucused for her here (NV).
I keep hoping he’ll pick Jindhal so he’ll resign and quit making things down here worse.
I would think it’s more like the male politicians have been so bad, especially this bunch … that Hillary looks good by comparison …
I think these women over 50 are not seeing the real “hill” because they aren’t seeing her, they are seeing THEM in her and they ARE bitter, angry and want some kind of revenge. Her in the White House, they think, would do it for them. (That STILL doesn’t explain her getting a pass on her horrible campaign tactics INCLUDING lending herself money (buying her way into the campaign/White House). I also think that if she ever GOT the White House, within 6 to 9 months, these same women would be pissed, bewildered, feel betrayed and humiliated as she proceeded onward with her “all about me” candidacy and her personal ambitions which would, in policy and word, have NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with them. NOTHING WHATSOEVER!
Oh, it’s still fun to roast the odd Troll, IMVHO … *g*
I don’t know about that.
For me, a winery is worth bonus points. )g.
Krugman, as usual, makes a good point.
Agree that VP will be critical (for both parties) but I still come around to ‘Who’s on the Team”? Who’s in the cabinet?
Will either nominee think a bit more creatively about how to organize the Cabinet?
When HUD is completely separate from Trans, you get bad urban design, which leads to sprawl. Which leads to all kinds of other problems.
I think people are probably about ready to move ‘beyond demographics’ and cut to the chase of ‘given the fact that government is broken and we’re going broke, how are you going to fix government and what’s it going to look like?’
But after Cheney, I do agree that a lot more attention will focus on ‘who’s your VP’?!
Is Jindhal that dumb?
Um … yes ?!! *g*
You didn’t detect the tone of grasping on my part. I would appreciate you’re explaining it to me then.
Can someone please define “feminist” for me? I don’t think I understand the word. I always thought it meant “someone who believes, first and foremost, in equal rights for women”. But I think I must be wrong, because a lot of so-called “feminists” are now saying they’ll vote for McCain over Obama if Clinton isn’t the nominee. If you’re voting for McCain over Obama, that’s your choice, but you’re not going to convince me that you sincerely believe in equal rights for women. I’ve consistently called bullshit every time Joe Lieberman calls himself a “Democrat”. This strikes me as the same type of thing.
This is an interesting read.
no, he’s not dumb and that’s one of the problems. However, he is very dangerous. He’s bright, articulate and is really good at hiding his incredibly radical right views with that code language that the majority of voters don’t understand but the nutty side of the republican party does. Since he’s Indian, he’s like Clarence Thomas, he looks like he couldn’t possibly hold those self-loathing kind of viewpoints, but he does. That also makes him dangerous. He can hide behind his ethniticity.
{{{m mcm}}}
i’ve (ugh!) just moved. bought a house. can’t find the green scrubber for the dishes. or even a giant lampshade! the great part of the house is i can walk out my back door and be on trails that will eventually take me to the creek. sound familiar?
Well, if you’d like me to elucidate, I’d be glad to. Because I am one of those women to whom you are referring. If you want to open the entire can of worms here, you’d best ask Jane. I promise to be polite, eurudite and succinct as possible and will not resort to below the belt hate speech. But I cannot control the verbiage of others.
02. - I think it is gonna be Sibelius
even if Obama goes another direction, I can not believe a campaign as thoroughly planned and executed as BO’s is somehow not going to do all they can to pick up HRC supporters
I could have easily gone down the path chosen by these HRC supporters, I more than fit the profile (and pls remember firedogs, most of this profiling is done by middle aged white males) but I didn’t - I chose to support Senator Obama bec HRC was making promises to beat back the VRWC and she couldn’t even beat an insurgent campaign in her own party and never once adjusted strategy -
plus I have been lucky enough to read some foul mouthed fem bloggers who remind us all it aint about ‘me’
i feel i have woken up in the 1950s Donna Reed time warp…all this bullshit is maufactured…seems thats one business (manufacture of complete and utter bullshit) that is still HIGH PAYING(and NOT offshored,cept when they are on yheir mega yachts)…20 ,000,000.00 to limpballs per year and 10,000,000,.00 to Beck,and all the other toal BS artists…boy what a lucrative ponsy scheme
I was afraid of that. Finally, a smart LA governor with no moral strength. another crook.
The lesson from the past 7 years has to be that we cannot afford to put so much power into anyone’s hands … that is the definition of giving up one’s own power and emboldening dictators.
All of us, in America and around the Globe, have to coordinate our efforts to win by a considerable margin, both the White House and Congress as the way to reverse the catastrophe of BushCo …
There are so many levels of being a feminist. I personally thought that Steinum and Bella Abzug were right on the money. And then there was Andrea Dworkin (sp?) who said that the very act of sex was rape - but then she wore overalls and combat boots.
Go figure.
Like everything else, it probably connotes a wide and lumpy distribution of views, all the way from “he helps with the dishes” out to “every act of penetration is an act of rape.”