By now, most of you have no doubt heard about the FBI’s plan to get informants to infiltrate vegan potlucks in the Twin Cities area to hunt down those evil liberal hippies who are almost certainly plotting violence for the 2008 Republican National Convention in St. Paul, even though there’s no evidence that the hippies are actually plotting violence — though there are recorded incidents where the moles in these groups were the ones inciting violence:
During the lead-up the 2004 Republican National Convention in New York City, the NYPD’s Intelligence Division infiltrated and spied on protest groups across the country, as well as in Canada and Europe. The program’s scope extended to explicitly nonviolent groups, including street theater troupes and church organizations.
There were also two reported instances of police officers, dressed as protestors, purposefully instigating clashes. At the 2004 Republican National Convention, the NYPD orchestrated a fake arrest to incite protestors. When a blond man was “arrested,” nearby protestors began shouting, “Let him go!” The helmeted police proceeded to push back against the crowd with batons and arrested at least two. In a similar instance, during an April 29, 2005, Critical Mass bike ride in New York, video footage captured a “protestor”—in reality an undercover cop—telling his captor, “I’m on the job,” and being subsequently let go.
This sort of poo-stirring by infiltrators has already been occurring locally:
Minneapolis’s own recent Critical Mass skirmish was allegedly initiated by two unidentified stragglers in hoods—one wearing a handkerchief over his or her face—who “began to make aggressive moves” near the back of the pack. During that humid August 31 evening, officers went on to arrest 19 cyclists while unleashing pepper spray into the faces of bystanders. The hooded duo was never apprehended.
In the scuffle’s wake, conspiracy theories swirled that the unprecedented surveillance—squad cars from multiple agencies and a helicopter hovering overhead—was due to the presence of RNC protesters in the ride. The MPD publicly denied this. But during the trial of cyclist Gus Ganley, MPD Sgt. David Stichter testified that a task force had been created to monitor the August 31 ride and that the department knew that members of an RNC protest group would be along for the ride.
Bear in mind that some of the local Twin Cities right-wing bloggers like Mitch Berg do things like brag about their ties to right-wing agents proshlockateur like “Protest Warrior” who do stupid things while pretending to be lefties. Meanwhile, these brave Republican local bloggers and talk-show gabbers such as Learned Foot and Michael Brodkorb (”faces made for radio”, indeed) are being put forth as suitable FBI moles — though whether any of these clowns has the guts to stand and reap the whirlwind they’d be sowing is debatable.
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Hiya!
mmm…evil buns…
watch our fer guys in black suits bearing soy burgers
This somehow reminds me of the “Attack of the Killer Tomatoes” when the guys who were infiltrating the Tomato’s dinner got found out by sayin “Pass the Ketchup”.
They were actually ecumenical buns, since I waited until I got to my mother’s place before putting the icing on them.
Watch out for those Vegimentalists! And never ever read Euell Gibbins!
Ha!
Hello!
Are there training sessions going on that would teach protesters how to neutralize such individuals? Such as pointing them out to all those around when they start provocative actions, taking photos of them, isolating them from the rest of the group, turning them over to the heat as troublemakers (even though they’ll be let go), etc.
“Pass the Butter.” Dead give away.
ot: rest in peace, sydney pollack.
http://www.latimes.com/news/ob.....8390.story
shish kabob?
What a fine time to skewer and grill your firends *g
Yes, Selise and or Kirk would know more, I believe.
Torture in a Vegan Radical Group would be milkboarding.
On Topic, but don’t tell anyone. My son is currently shucking the corn on the cob.
He just loves that word.
Now, off topic, sort of - but you guys will like it. I was just talking to my sister who is driving on the freeway in Los Angles where we live and she said, Oh Cool A big Freeway Sign that says Impeach Bush/Cheney. And, then a mile later another one!
That’s very funny :)
turning them over to the heat as troublemakers (even though they’ll be let go)…
“Hi Bob”
“Hi Bill - guess you’d better be going. Dinner next week?”
707. My tigers are like getting so tired of me scaring the hell out of them right after they lie down for their after-dinner snooze.
Hurray for Scarlet P. If he didn’t do it he inspired it.
Yep.
Dugg!
Thanks for this post, PW. Whatever threat off-shore terrorists pose to our physical safety, it’s dwarfed by what we already faced - and defeated during the Cold War.
I hope we all live to see the time when the greatest threat to our freedoms and Constitution no longer comes from the “Security” services we pay billons of dollars…..
to make lists of which Americans can’t fly and which Americans are enemies of the state.
And now the same alphabet soup of Federal “security” services wants to use the “war on brown people” to force everyone in America to get pthe Feds’ approval before they are hired for any job.
Not to worry, right: they do so well with the “no fly list” - right?
Good work, PW.
I’ll have to remember that when I’m arrested during the RNC convention this summer. “It’s okay, I’m on the job!”
Yeppers. I told my sissy about him when she mentioned the signs.
Yeah for Freedom of Freeway Speech.
And, I too Loved your milkboarding comment.
(non free tradechocolate milk is even more torturous?)
dugg :)
I kin drink it faster’n they kin pour it.
:)
Hi SD - all but the latter are routine aspects of the non-violence trainings repeatedly given around local communities in the months leading up to major demos.
(”Turning over” anyone implies control of their movements / physical freedom - which could place demonstrators or organizers at risk of charges for false arrest or even kidnapping. Of course, i’m sure not suggesting that you were advocating any such behviors or outcoomes - simply explaining why that option is not available).
OMG. It just occurred to me that my folks are targets for political conversion. Dad’s been diagnosed with a heart problem, is working on switching to an Ornish diet…they’re ripe for invitations to vegan potlucks.
Maybe Ornish will not only fix Dad’s cholesterol and improve his blood pressure, but it might fix his conservative ideology, too. Who knew?
(bows) Konichiwah, demi.
so, in other words, you didn’t eat your veggies.
LOL!
I should have expressed it better. I meant point them out to the heat as persons advocating certain acts.
There should be a law against the law keepers making trouble so that citizens can be arrested by the law keepers so the citizens can go to jail and be bailed out by other citizens.
Yeah. That was the preferred British intel way of dealing with spies. You didn’t out them — you determined whether or not they worth converting to your side. If they were, you turned them into double agents. If not, you fed them disinformation that poisoned the well back at the home office — though you had to be careful to feed the spy plausible stuff, so as not to let the other side know that you knew about their spy.
Ha!
And, would you care to join me and my son in a little Memorial Day dinner?
Corn on the Cob, Cole Slaw, Beans, Potato salad and, um hot dogs? It’s only 6:26 in LA. But, I know you’re on East Coast Time. Since it’s virtual for you, it shouldn’t be too late? Yes?
whaaaaa?
Hey you !
((((( PW )))))
Mmmmm … Hot Cross Buns …
I’ll have an order of hot cross buns and milkboarding plz.
The French don’t have a word for agent provocateur
Why, I’d be delighted. Thank you. Where’s the butter? Veggie dogs? Got any Chinese mustard? Picky sob, ain’t I?
Just remember, the code word or Shibboleth is tofurkey.
I’m officially putting you in the same category as punaise and darkblack … not reading your comments while liquids are nearby … *g*
ROFL
You have to watch out for those vegans. They will undermind everything this country used to stand for.
((((( Rayne )))))
Tell Dad that I Heartily endorse (pun intended) Ornish’s diet … it works better than anything out there …
There is and it’s called the Constitution …
Silly boy.
They’re Ballpark Franks, but you can do with the buns and the cheese, tomatoes and onions only. It’ll still be good.
Hiya, Petro.
The more pressing question is, what’s for dessert ? *g*
props to kirk and his work with EF in the 1990’s.
many paying attention back then realized Clinton was bad news for the environment, very bad news because the (D) captured big green groups could not bring themselves to seriously denounce a (D) president.
police state agent provacateur and surveillance tactics were brought to bear that foreshadow the works of Bush/Cheney.
its almost as if a corporate authoritarian police state is a fully bipartisan project … but that is a taboo to mention in places that are working for more and better of the lesser evil.
what was that old slogan …
oh yeah, “No compromise in defense of Mother Earth!”
because allowing half a watershed to be clearcut sundered the entire ecosystem of the area, compromises worked out in Washington DC were frowned upon by the EF mileu.
And because after the first clearcut, the logging companies were free to come back and work out another compromise and cut half of what remained, and so on, but the ancient forest never got a second chance.
The same with the democratic party - watch as they attempt to work out a compromise over retroactive immunity for the telecoms , and be sure they have a compromise in mind to keep US forces in the sandy hellish quagmire of Iraq.
what would be a good Democratic tactic for squelching inconvenient protected speech?
Organic pepper spray in the eyes? maybe only in one eye? zipties only tight enough for pain, but not permanent damage?Recruiting more agent provacateurs from the GLBTC? those are all some swell lesser evils.
I wanna hotdawg! waaaaaaaawaaaaa.
Dodger dogs? Now yer talkin’!
I was very involved in campus anti-apartheid groups in the mid 1980’s. We did some remarkable things such as take-overs, large demonstrations at Regents/Trustees meetings, shanty-towns, street theater, film series, concerts, and large fundraisers for the ANC and other groups inside South Africa.
Throughout this we were constantly beset with police spies (including one outed when he was compelled to serve as a witness on an unrelated matter) and people that we suspected were agents provacateurs. One of them was a well-known Palestinian activist who constantly advocated violent acts (like pushing over the library stacks, pulling fire alarms and then giving speeches to the assembled crowds, or bombing a building). His rationale was “they don’t take you seriously”…which was ironic given that his Palestinian groups were never so capable of organizing protests outside of a very small clique.
And it was strange that he was suggesting that we undertake such actions (he was supported in this by a pair of outspoken animal-rights protestors) when the most his group ever did was steal an Israeli flag from the local Hillel House. The group denied their involvement, but then “someone” informed…and names were named.
But I’m not certain, to this day, whether he was the informant…but we made it clear that our groups were non-violent and were not going to cross the line. I also think that he was more than a little jealous at the organizational capabilities and diversity of the coalition that emerged…and wanted a leadership capacity. That’s often the case…are these individuals simply nutty, free-associating, or insidious plants…or a little of all three?
Nutty, plants…vegetarian potlucks…hey maybe that’s it!
I’m sorry - I fear was again being a pedant.
I watched in NYC when the city’s finest were pre-emptively arresting folks in a (very tame) critical massish bike ride prior to the big protests for the 2004 RNC. The cops totally ignored - or actively threatened - folks I know and trust who pointed out obvious acts of provocateur violence.
Result: pre-emptive arrests of activists.
Just as in Seattle in 1999 (and again at Westside (?) plaza on December 1 - I watched it - and in DC for the IMF/WB protests in 2000 (didn’t see that one - IIRC I was too busy scrambling to arrange alternative spae after the illegal pre-emptive seizure and occuption of our COnvregence Space…with the dangerous med supplies and puppets…)
Well to make an omelet you have to break a few eggs…and to make a souffle you have to beat a few whites.
Of course, one would have to be attending an ovo-lacto vegetarian group to make these suggestions. It definitely would not be well received by the vegans.
Oh that? We made a cake. Yellow with chocolate frosting and sprinkles.
thanks spork - but all props to PW for this post and cinnamonape (and others here) for their work!
Let’s digg it, folks!
i done dugg.
Hold out your plate.
What sides would you like?
Dr. Ornish is one of my all-time heroes. The work he did showing heart disease is reversible was stunning and even though I don’t have heart disease I couldn’t put down the book he wrote about it: “Dr. Dean Ornish’s Program for Reversing Heart Disease.” It’s a fascinating book.
Left side, of course.
newest thinking on cholesterol:
http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com
you know, I wouldn’t have a problem with the fbi infiltrating organizations if they really were “on the job” and they were on salary with no compensation for arrests and who’s job was to prevent issues not incite them
but these are hired guns, they only get paid if there is an arrest
they are provocators and just like nixon had people create scripted issues at his venue so he could look like some kind of hero, that’s what’s going on here
they are using the same play book
I’ll remember that. When St Pete For Peace started in 2002 it didn’t take long for the heat to recognize us because we weren’t that many. As time went on and our reputation for peaceful protests spread I have to think they just didn’t bother. Not that we didn’t have the occasional bozo who wanted to act out but they got taken care of muy rapido. When we protested in Tampa in early 2006 at a fundraiser with Hillary Clinton (my FB photo) as the draw the Tampa undercover cops were a little unhappy at having to be there because of our reputation. One said to me as we were policing the area that the only thing he got out of it was a sore ass from sitting on the retaining wall all afternoon. The St Pete Chief of Police may be a dickhead but the cops that were assigned our weekly protests protected us against the drunk wingnuts and other troublemakers.
true, it was just new info to me in the link.
ask the
infiltratorsovereager volunteers to go dumpster some food, or test out dumpstered food for freshness, or conceal top secret hippie-strength protest plans in the bottom of the communal toilets…I think it is worse than that. The hero thing may play a part but their real goal is to make the opposition seem violent and irrational.
Dugg. Had to get my damn shovel back from Kevin James.
love your suggestions! (and asking the “pro-violence” new faces to dumpster dive is priceless)
and you nailed this:
Xeno’s paradox marked off in successive clearcuts.
Their goal is to provoke a police riot that can be blamed on the protesters.
crank it up f00kers!
I watched a Carlos Mencia (sp?) comedy special the other night and he joked that it was all the Vegetarians who are at fault for Global Warming ’cause they’re eating all the green stuff that creates the oxygen and those who eat hamburgers are actually helping the environment by eating cows who’s farts are bad for the atmosphere.
And, before anyone goes there…he makes fun of everyone and everything. So there.
yes.
Speaking of Diggs, Sunday Late Nite could use some help, it’s over 100 now….
OT, and sorry if this is “old news.”
I’ve been busting my hump in the garden for the better part of the day (did I ever tell y’all that I hate Bermuda grass?) and just saw this. Apparently Bill Clinon says there’s a cover-up hiding Hillary’s chances… WTF???
and get yr cameras ready for when they come up. Ha!
lmao, slashdot’d that shit with 2 posts.
This is what I’m afraid of at the Rethug convention. Chicago, Seattle, Miami redux.
Mencia sometimes loses his bearings. The more cows you eat the more cows they make. The more wood you buy the more trees they cut.
Ummm… That would be CLINTON, not “Clinon.” Too tired to type… (Ain’t alliteration awesome?!)
It should be ignored. No attention is better than negative attention.
The only strategy left at this point is to undermine reality and therefore the Democratic Party in tandem with the exact same forces at Faux News that have undermined our democracy throughout the past decade. In doing so they are becoming part of the same monstrosity.
Comedy isn’t always about reality.
If it was, it wouldn’t be Funny, don’t you think?
Ya gotta take off the tin foil hat and put on a clown hat sometimes.
Mary, I sure agree with you - but i’ve to figure out how the people assembled for (peaceful) redress of grievances get law enforcement to ignore the provocateurs law enforcement pays to provoke other law enforcement.
“i’ve yet to figure out”
(damn - all my typos, and they’re not even alliterative….)
Is that Fred Thompson’s red peck ‘em up the Clintons’ is using?
All they need is one provocateur to start something for them to “justify” converging on the crowd. Like LA they can just move in with no real provocation. The heat have not learned yet that most people are carrying vid capable mobile phones and aren’t afraid to film police violence. We’ve had Pinellas County Sheriff’s Deputies try to stop us from filming them only to have one of the ACLU attorneys who are usually with us tell them that as long as they’re on duty they can be photographed as long as it’s not done surreptitiously. Pretty bad when the protesters have to teach law to the heat.
And then there was the testimony of the informant in the trial of the Buffalo “terrorists” who stated:
So beware if you are a Cleveland “Dawgs” or Georgia Bulldogs fan who happens to be vegetarian (or just happen to like zucchini bread)!
“Are you gonna bring over the ‘zucchini’?”
Don’t know. I’m just SO confused… It used to be the vast right-wing conspiracy. Now it seems to be the vast progressive/left wing conspiracy. Well, at least she’s used to being under attack, having been under fire in Bosnia and all…
I’m most afraid of the provocateur strategy at the DNC protests in Denver this summer. I used to think “recreate 68″ was clever.
Largely due to what I’ve learned from the contributors and commenters here at the Lake, I now fear it could be prescient.
I’m hoping lots of folks make time for Denver and Minneapolis this summer: the more level-headed folks in Denver, the better.
The Ruckus society aren’t even training for the DNC in Denver this year: they’re putting all their efforts into the RNC.
Realistically, the redress of grievances will never happen. Expressing your need for redress is another thing.
Imagine the chagrin of the authorities if on the big day there was little action or interest. The provocateurs would have no mission to fulfill. It would be like trying to have sex without bodies.
The cattle business is one of the worst environmental hazards of our time.
pssst demi … don’t say “clown” … *g*
shit, i have a better copy. where can i upload a 51 megs file?
you are bad! bad!
Terrible, terrible, terrible stupid idea. Unless, of course, you think police riots are fun.
I was just about to add that I’ve heard laughter is the best medicine.
And, I imagine context is needed for me to laugh at something.
When I pray tonight, I’m going to add a PS, oh, please Mother God, let there be one FDL thread without the “C” word used in the comments.
B- bu- but mom, demi said it first !!! *g*
I have always thought the most effective protest would be thousands of people with signs standing perfectly silent - it certainly would get attention.
Oh, crap. (I’m guessing that wasn’t the “C” word you were talking about…) Sorry. I think it was my fault. I’ll try to do better in the future.
Rush does
The heat have not learned yet that most people are carrying vid capable mobile phones and aren’t afraid to film police violence. We’ve had Pinellas County Sheriff’s Deputies try to stop us from filming them only to have one of the ACLU attorneys who are usually with us tell them that as long as they’re on duty they can be photographed as long as it’s not done surreptitiously. Pretty bad when the protesters have to teach law to the heat.
Video cell phones are keys to retaking our democracy.