jus cogens!

Got that! LHP, thanks for a great post and making these things so clear for us. We need to send it to all our lawmakers – I don’t think most of them even understand these basic principles. Nice work!

Great post :)
Duggggg :)

lhp!

I certainly appreciate you explaining just what is it that tw3k is forever saying ;)

Hi all, back from a day in the sun. I don’t know about you all, but here on the Island of Long, we have just had two back to back PERFECT days.

Sunny warn enough, but with a cool breeze and low humidity.

Crystal clear views and because the spring has been so cool, Long Island Sound has almost no algae bloom so the water was an intense blue today (went boating in the morning and hiking in the afternoon)

Just a priceless fairy tale kinda weather.

You know my kid’s school did the musical 1776 for the school play this Spring. You forget that the very issues of inalienable rights was THE foundational reason for the creation of this new nation.

The very existence of the USA = belief in inalienable rights

:)

Greetings from the home state of Thomas Jefferson.

jus cogens!

One of my favorite movies – makes me cry every time.

Well tw3k has been right all along

Thank you for today’s lesson and explication of jus cogens. I had meant to look it up, but never got around to it.

Thomas Jefferson argued, “Under the law of nature, all men are born free, every one comes into the world with a right to his own person, which includes the liberty of moving and using it at his own will. This is what is called personal liberty, and it is given him by the author of nature, because necessary for his own sustenance.”

Der Google is my friend. Der Google is my friend.

Keep saying it over and over.

:})

Ever since I started commented regularly Mr. Gnome has made fun of this obsession of mine. He started catching on to its relevance when he would report things to me that he read in the newspaper and find that I knew all about it and even more than what he read. But he may appear here soon, at least as a reader. Conyer’s subpoena of Rove and the pooh-poohing from DOJ has really made him livid. I introduced him to EW yesterday. Today it is LHP. Kudos everyone!

Littleprop and I have been going to Colonial Williamsburg every couple years since she was 5. As she gets older it becomes less about the fancy dresses and horsedrawn carriages and more about the philosophical underpinnings of the enlightenment.
This past summer we Went to Williamsburg again and then to Monticello, were she got into quite a discussion with the interpreter about the contradiction between Jefferson’s words and his actions.

It was our Americana tour, it began in Independence Hall in Philly, went on to DC then Williamsburg and Charlottesville . She took a college course last summer –Introduction to Western Philosophy–so she saw everything on our trip through the prism of Lock and Hobbes.

It was fascinating to what her connect theory with history and then with present day realities.

Got that?

got it

but but but

the president is without law, he is lawless, he is without law, he is above the law, he is the law, he is all five

and he will continue to be until he is held to accout, until that way he is all five no matter what we’ve learned, no matter what the precedence, no matter what

all of the president’s power eminates from congress, so to be fair, he is not only all five, he is none of it at the same time

he has the power congress allows and nothing more, the supreme court has no power over congress to limit the president’s power, none

if the supreme court says;

“the president has this executive priviledge thingy he claims he has”

congress can say;

“no, he does not, and if he tries to use that thingy we will remove him and anyone else from office”

so he is all five and he is not any of the five

in other words, whatever this president does, since he is not removed from office it is congress who commits the crime

there, I said it

I hope you all have two computers! *s*

I know, I know. But I had other things I needed to google first – like the plots of movies Mr. Gnome was watching. (Besides, I knew what the Latin meant, it was the legal concepts I hadn’t gotten around to. Neyah)

Excellent quote you chose:

“Under the law of nature, all men are born free, every one comes into the world with a right to his own person, which includes the liberty of moving and using it at his own will. This is what is called personal liberty, and it is given him by the author of nature, because necessary for his own sustenance.”

Now, contrast that with the fertilizer in the Yoo memos. hard to believe that Mr. Yoo is living in the country Jefferson helped to found, isn’t it?

my point is that while it’s nice to trott out all these rules and laws the president has broken, we are acting like the rules apply to him

the rules do not apply till congress makes them apply

I humbly submit that jus cogens is right.

We’ve got more than two! We’ve always had more computers than people in our household. Mr. Gnome buys a new one every time he starts a new project, I think. There is a new job on the horizon, so that means another computer I bet. ;-)

wow, awesome! she really is chip off the old prop.

I confess tho, I still like the pretty dresses.

A president who is above the law, or who has the power to say what the law is, is NOT a president. He is a King.

lhp – i just came in too. perfect, perfect day. and tomorrow is supposed to spectacular also. i only have a tiny yard, and haven’t spent nearly enough time turning it into garden and yet it gives back 100 fold. my lilacs are blossoming and the viburnum, a couple hundred anemones, some native irises, a few wood phlox, some golden star, wild geraniums, and a few late celandine poppies.

and way, way too many weeds. but there are fewer weeds now than there were earlier in the day. *g*

if only pulling the torturers from our gov. were so easy.

All we can do is KEEP DEMANDING that Congress do its fekking job.

and that is what we have, he said it himself, he wanted this place to be a dictatorship with him as the dictator, he received his wish, awarded on a platter of platinum paid with the lives of our children and their future

he is king until congress says otherwise and unless they say otherwise by removing him from office, everything he has done will carry with it historical weight and precedence

he is king of America

Jefferson wrote the emancipation bill, which he gave to his cousin Richard Bland (an elder statesman and an acknowledged expert on the rights of British subjects under constitutional law, and one of the men who was framing the arguments for American liberty). Bland found himself denounced as an enemy of his country for what he had suggested.

Bland proposed Jefferson’s law (Jefferson was only recently elected as a Burgess and thus gave it to Bland to present). The law would allow masters to emancipate slaves at will.

The proposal was based on John Locke’s theory of natural rights, the idea that under the law of nature all men are born free.

Williamsburg, Virginia, 1769.

A quote from down thread: “democratic vigilance.”

The first time we took her, a friend was being promoted to Captain in the Navy . She was 5. It was near Halloween. She got to go to this cool ceremony where they “ring” the new Captain aboard. Bands playing, naval officers in their whites, seaman with the spats on blowing the whistle, the whole nine yards,

Then we took her on a lantern tour of Williamsburg with ghost stories. We spent a VERY long weekend and she was hooked. To this day, she still starts talking about the Navy whenever we go down there, though I don’t think she has an actual conscious memory of the naval base ceremony.

The BushCheney twins don’t believe in law, much less international law.

The greater scam is that all this lawbreaking is claimed to be for the purpose of protecting Americans and the “American Way of Life”. In reality, it demeans both in forcefully attempting to turn America into a corporate state. Mass, undisclosed, unregulated outsourcing. Extra-legal institutionalized mass domestic surveillance. Trials of mass police tactics against immigrants. A cowed legislature and co-opted judiciary.

Law? What law? We don’t need no stinkin’ law, just our leader.

I am in the middle of house hunting, so this is the first Spring in I don’t know how long that I really haven’t concerned myself with planting things.

Which is why I had time to go out on the water today. Beach tomorrow, if the weather holds.

The greater scam is that all this lawbreaking is claimed to be for the purpose of protecting Americans and the “American Way of Life”.

Bush/Cheney are the biggest single threat to the American way of life. They have done far more violence to our Constitution than Osama could do on his best day, and they killed far more of our sons and daughters than Osama has.

here’s what the president has;

he is playing tennis and he hits the ball on two bounces, he first says “no I didn’t” but there is video tape which shows he did

the official says;

“well, it’s taken too long to have a look see so we’re gonna let the president have the point”

then he hits the ball on two bounces again and this time the official says;

“you know, we allowed him the first time we can’t say he can’t do it this time”

he is without law, he is above the law, there is no law he is the law

An Imperfect God – George Washington, His Slaves and the Creation of America, by Henry Weincek.

This book has the excerpts I provided. There is a great deal about Williamsburg – history and modern times. Rockefeller’s money restored and built Wmsburg. It was segregated for a long time and it sugar-coated slavery. It now provides a more accurate representation of history.

Bush/Cheney are the biggest single threat to the American way of life. They have done far more violence to our Constitution than Osama could do on his best day, and they killed far more of our sons and daughters than Osama has.

and their damage will remain until and unless they are brought to the bar of justice, their crimes are not crimes until that day

lhp, well done as usual

Reminds me of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights
(pls. paste into browser to find page–> http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/a_cescr.htm

Adopted and opened for signature, ratification and accession by General Assembly
resolution 2200A (XXI) of 16 December 1966
entry into force 3 January 1976, in accordance with article 27

This Covenant is a blueprint for how things could be, what we once aspired to,
and the fact that the UN General Assembly thought to elucidate & elaborate jus cogens.

Could a Covenant such as this (among others) serve as a premise for what needs to be done?

sam cedar had on his book salon today an excellant story of greenspan and the fed, how they stoped taking records and how they are without oversite, they lend american money and assets to foreign governments without any approval from the president or congress

it was an incredible segment and though I don’t know the name of the author or the book he belongs on our book salon

All we can do is KEEP DEMANDING that Congress do its fekking job.

amen.

this is what i have on the page where i post the weekly list of congressional committee hearings:

Oversight of the executive branch is the duty of Congress.
Oversight of Congress is the duty of every Citizen.

Oversight of the executive branch is the duty of Congress.
Oversight of Congress is the duty of every Citizen.

very very nice

And if telco immunity goes through, much of what they’ve done will remain hidden, even while it plows ahead, a great snowball on its way down hill.

and what they stole with that power will remain theirs

Bush/Cheney are the biggest single threat to the American way of life. They have done far more violence to our Constitution than Osama could do on his best day, and they killed far more of our sons and daughters than Osama has.

Amen.

Enormous resources that help make their power permanent, and a lopsided counterweight to defracted resources of progressives, especially those who just want to let bygones be bygones and “move ahead”.

Although off topic, here is some good breaking news from NASA and MSNBC:

BREAKING NEWS: Radio signal indicates NASA’s Phoenix probe has landed on Mars

Well, it already exists and yet USA feels free to ignore it.

When I was in law school I was on a Law Review. I wrote what is called a “note”, it’s a scholarly article. It was on the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty of 1958. I had learned in grade school that the US was THE big proponent of the nuclear non-proliferation, so when I proposed the article I mistakenly believed that USA had been 800 lbs gorilla who had rammed this treaty down the throats of the other countries.

The original purpose of my article was to discuss how more involvement and “buy-in” by other countries prior to the passage and signing of the Treaty would have made it more effective.

You know what I found? It was the rest of the world that did all the heavy lifting–Ireland started off– and the treaty’s language was modified many times before a final version was agreed to. If you read the correspondence it truly appears that the world had reached consensus, except for the US who made it clear it would be bound only so long as it felt like being bound.

I was shocked. The reality of what happened is so different than what we taught our children back during the cold war. The US really was quite aggressive, and we are the biggest proliferators of nuclear weapons.

So, cynically, I don’t think a resolution on piece of paper will do it.

I think a result American populace can force it, if we keep Congress’s feet to the fire.

That is good news – apparently they were very worried about the landing. Can’t wait for pictures.

Selise, would you mind if I plagerized that onto a needlepoint pillow?

sorry lhp but wooHOO!

of course – it’s yours too.

before fdl, i didn’t even watch c-span.

Mars might be a good place for Republicans to live. Since they don’t care about having a breathable atmosphere anyway.

Just got here read the article I want to say that I could not agree more and I wonder how do we get the MSM to pick up this debate. Now off to read the Comments!

That is good news.

You know, I wrote this post earlier in the week. It’s kinda hard to sustain the requisite rage level on such soft beautiful evening.

I think a result American populace can force it, if we keep Congress’s feet to the fire.

i think our dems only do what they think they can get away with. when we watch them – carefully and without falling for their bs/kabuki/spin – that is when they have begun to be a little bit responsive.

Agreed.

Glad to see NLG has issued a white paper — maybe everyone should print a copy of that,
wrap it in the UN OHCHR Covenant, top it off with a pocket-sized Constitution/BOR and
inundate our Congress inboxes.

Time for another Rubber Stamp Caper, FDLers?

Thanks Stephen on the update about Mars! Very cool. Last night I was watching the NASA channel and one of the astronauts was brushing his teeth, shaving, eating, drinking water orbs, and “flying” around the spacecraft in zero gravity. It was so much fun to watch. Cute. ;-)

Darth has always seemed to favor the Divine Right of Kings over Jefferson? Scalia and Roberts seem to favor wealthy property owners over landless serfs.
Conservative legal thought ignores Jefferson or twists his words? back to the comments.

It’s a family affair.

Mars coverage live on The Science Channel. They are broadcasting from JPL

is that a reference to the book salon? i haven’t read it yet.

Thanks Suzanne. If anyone has the NASA channel on DirecTV, the channel has changed. It’s now on 283 instead of 376. They’re talking about this too.

Heh.. Both the book salon and your remark on all due diligence needed in re dems.

That book blew my mind. Just amazing concept. It’s almost too hard to beleive. If the author had merely researched this and had not actually gone undercoever into the organization; I would have thouht he was a conspiracy nut.

But he actually lived and worked inside

OT – Bob Barr is Libertarian prez candidate

It’s on my wish list now. And you actually find time for needlepoint!

The first I ever heard of The Family was the Rolling Stone article on Sam “I’m ascared of the temptations of p0rn channels in hotel rooms” Brownback

I believe the phrase I’ve read about the US and nuclear weapons is:

Hiroshima and Nagasaki speak for themselves.

It’s tough to be faster than the backstage news crew at FDL!

Kings have always been able to do what they want historically until they ran out of money. The Fed is financing this war on credit but we are all paying now with a weaker Dollar rather than higher taxes.
To maintain popular support only the rich must be taxed.
But just how will Congress or a Democratic White House decide to bring Bush in Hugh’s list suggests lots of charges.
Do we go for the easy stuff to prove first and then move on to the hard stuff? Do we hold him in jail during his trial otherwise he will flee or stall for time? Should we try a South Africa style truth commission for everyone below WH cabinet level?
Just how are we going to do this?

…Sam “I’m ascared of the temptations of p0rn channels in hotel rooms” Brownback

“Not for myself, you see. Er, um, the kids – yeah – the kids!

I feel bad for Mary Ruwart, shes’ been there since the ’80s. Barr kinda waltzed in and took it. But am glad Barr will plague the Republicans.

Congress needs to take back the power of the purse from the Fed otherwise they can’t stop Bush. Either that or they need to do a better job at hiring.

Impeachment is not only for those serving in office. It can be done after one leaves office.

My preference is Impeachment, after that, it’s up to the Hague

In my house, “I’m obnoxious and disliked, did you know that?” is almost a family theme.

Should we give up and just turn Bush over to the Hague for trial? there is a fair argument to be made that the GOP will never let him see a day of jail.

Libertarian debates on cspan this weekend.. Many a times they start off pretty well.. then they almost always end up in lunatic-land. it’s to bad any government service ( S.S., medicare etc.) is just inconceivable to that party.

We who?

So true! I always feel like I’m a week behind everyone here. LOL You people rock!

Both

Well the BBQ at the Kept Man’s Compound at Sedona is done……. big caravan of cars were seen leaving….. Mittens was driving himself in a white mustang…..

Who will be doing the dishes?

I love that song

Completely OT. Hmmmm, Diplomatic cargo???

‘The United States said there were no serious injuries in the crash of an American-owned Boeing 747 cargo plane carrying diplomatic cargo at Brussels airport.’
‘She said the US embassy in Brussels had secured the diplomatic materials aboard the plane, which was on the way to Bahrain.’

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=569211

Just who will the GOP and Bush try and strike a deal with on war crimes Congress, the next President, the FBI, the Justice dept, the Supreme Court?
Who has the juice to influence or stop impeachment or extradition to the Hague?

Who will be doing the dishes? Probably the undocumented alien help. I don’t see Cindy rolling up her sleeves.

When we went down to New Brunswick to help my eldest to move for grad school, we passed a sign for the Raritan River and we spent at least ten minutes giggling over the “naked bathing in the Raritan River” speech. That show is, for me, something that I think every kid in the US should study and learn and be put in the US history classes. The amount of sheer information about the relationships between the colonies(bibles to run to slaves), between the individuals, George Washington, etc. is just stupendous.

There is nothing pending against Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Colin Powell, etc. of any consequence. History tells us that it will be bygones.

Now that’s kind of interesting isn’t it? I wonder who was aboard? Hmmmm….

Yep, a treasure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH7SFiW0TuE

Bushco diplomatic cargo – giant foam middle fingers.

Video of McBush, CindyLou and guests from cars into one of the “ranch” houses all bundled up and in pouring rain….. very unseasonably cool and rainy weekend….. they went into Jerome AZ to eat…… a hippydippy nest of liberals…… wonder what kind of service they received?

We whomever’s job it is to arrest the President of the United States, Salinas exPres of Mexico not only fled the country to Ireland with stolen cash he tried to get his bodyguards to bust his brother out of jail for stealing government cash.
Just who is the secret service really loyal too? I am not happy that they are still being sued for being a bunch of racists.
I suggest we turn Bush over to the Hague because I’m not sure we can trust our government not to look the other way if Bush wants to leave.
Well that or outfit his prison cell like the Columbian Drug Lords fix up their prison cells.

I know what you mean, they leave logicville at that point. Community is a key part of the success of the human species. Yes, individual efforts and success are so valuable and so important to the fabric of our life. But we are a community species. That way we make the most of what each member can contribute. And can minimize each of our weak points.

Did you see Viguerie’s speech? At the end, as he left the podium, I thought I heard him say “See you at the Revelation” But he must have said “See you at the Revolution”

Nothing pending yet.

707… that is rich

Oh, well. I tried.

Good luck.

Yes we need to dog places McCain eats at and wonder why the INS does not raid them or bust the owners? We show McCain then as pro replacing American workers and drive the minute men away from supporting him.
Divide and Conquer.

I missed the end.

I will be singing that song in our community theatre’s “Gala” in two weeks.

Just by being here we are all doing our part to bring Bush to Justice. We are showing that even though we are scared of jail we are willing to talk about bringing the Decider to jail.
Despite the fact we know he tortures people.

Great moments in understatememt:

The plane is very seriously damaged

Good evening friends.

Anyone able to stomach the upcoming “Recount” on HBO? I don’t think I can watch.

Houston, we have a major malfunction.

yep, aircraft integrity has definitely been compromised.

I’ve learned to not only check the front page news box but to go inside and drill down a couple of pages before posting a news link. A lot of times what I’m seeing as “breaking news” turns out to have been posted as long as 8, 10, 12 hours earlier.

As I say, they tend to be pretty fast about getting the juicy stories posted.

OT- Bruce “U Utah” Phillips,has passed into the “Big Rock Candy Mountain” of the sky!

“U. Utah” was the pro-Union former hobo-musician who never gave up- the musician who’s songs have been covered by better known folk singers and was still performing last year well into his eighties. Always with a bent for anarchism and local non-corporate DYI activity, some of his most recent work was a collaboration with Ani diFranco, a punk-folk songstress about 50 years younger.
U.Utah “God Loves A Bum” R.I.P

Hell, there are plenty of people here that don’t even think he’s going to leave office much less go to the joint.

LOL, that was my first thought too…

I’ll file that bit of information for future reference. Thanks.

moreso “they” than “he.”

It’s not about Shrub. It’s a whole lot bigger than that. But then again, everyone here knows that.

Must have been overloaded with bricks. Pallets of c-notes, gold bricks, kilos of coca cola, etc. – diplomatic stuff.

Nice choice.

Question:

How will this effect our society…. the lack of holding these yahoos responsible for their crimes against the American people and humanity?

If these yahoos skate….. will it embolden the next generation of yahoos?

Utah told some great union stories. I love his Miles Horton tales. A proud member of the IWW.

Yes embolden. It will embolden the terrists.

Of course, I don’t think folks mind if you bring the info forward from the News Box or comment on the story there either one. I know a lot of folks aren’t in the habit of checking it (or are not as obsessed with news as I am).

Utah Phillips has left the stage.

From an EarthFirst! friend:

[The news came] as we were commemorating Judi Bari Day, the anniversary of the bombing that nearly killed Judi back in 1990. As many of you know, Utah was with Judi just before, helping strategize for Redwood Summer, and when we finally went to trial to sue the FBI in 2002, Utah was the most entertaining witness to testify, helping bring that irreverent humor that Judi loved into the courtroom. I called Utah day before yesterday to tell him we would be out in the street commemorating Judi Bari Day, and thinking of him too. So when we wrapped up our event today, I got to say, fist in the air, Viva Judi! Viva Utah!

Someone should ask McCain if GW is found guilty of ordering that prisoners be tortured like he was in the war without a trial would McCain support Bush going to jail.

Head bags and water boards.

Seriously – it had to be a weight problem with some wind shear to do that on take-off.

*raises hand*

Man, not many people know about Miles Horton and the Highlander Folk School. . .you da man.

If these yahoos skate….. will it embolden the next generation of yahoos?

Yes, Gerry Ford’s well intentioned pardon of Nixon, set the stage for the return of the neo cons who brought us Iran Contra.

Since the Iran Contra folks skated, they were available to hold senior leadership positions in this admin.

This “let bygones be bygones’ crap just emboldens them to do worse shit next time.

These are some fine examples of Bushco diplomatic gear.

I’m gonna start making freeway signs saying that!

Freewayblogger is my hero…

moose turd pie is one of my fav utah songs.. his voice will be missed

Wait a second, we’re talking about Bush going to jail and then “it’s a whole lot bigger than that”?

And Ford was inspired by the Family. Not that mafia, the other one. The mens prayer breakfast club.

nothing a little duct tape won’t fix!

Welcome to Mr. GDP!

Another great read LHP. You bring hope!

Utah and the “People’s Peace and Freedom Party” damn!

yeah, nothin’ like having a bad dream all over again

(hope you had fun on your outing!)

you think W is going to take the rap for the whole fetid rats nest?

Here are the signs for the protest the May 27th McCain/Bush fund raiser
Phoenix Protest

IMHO – Bush is the most important one to go into a cage. It is symbolic, and while he is certainly not the only one, only with Bush himself going down will it be seen as anything other than bit players taking the fall.

we did! went to both the Mercer and the concrete castle. Then had dinner and saw “The Visitor” at the local indie movie house. Chilling story. Makes the whole ICE immigration fiasco feel personal.

I think nothing of the sort of a impeachment or some trial in the Hague is even a remote possibility.

spew

just when I thought it was safe to take the Saran Wrap off the monitor.

a girl can dream. . . . but alas it will probably only happen in our dreams.

FYI, Siun is upstairs..

I’m a card carryin’, dues payin’ Wobbley.

Has anyone come up with the how, where (not who) of how the nukes from North Dakota were sent across country? What is ANYONE doing about this? Anyone know?

Act III Scene 1:
A large Family Compound in Paraguay.

Yep. More likely to be another “We must put our long national nightmare behind us and come together as a nation” level of BS.

The most corrupt and anti-US action Gerald Ford ever did was pardon Richard Nixon without his having even been indicted.

Mrs. Mittens?

I can envision Shrub issuing a pardon for himself.

Laws, we don’ need no steenking laws.

it made way for our recurring nightmare. I had one of those as a kid. Not fun. Now we are living one in real time while being fully awake.

I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night. . .

Actually, last night, I was hangin at the campfire with a Phu Bai nurse and one who just retired from the Asheville VA Hospital (the wife of one of the MRF bros). You were mentioned.

all had their significant others with them…… wife, SO…. it was a couples weekend EXCEPT for Lindsey Graham who went stag …. heard that Lieberman was there but did not see pics

Hope ya said some nice things. *g*

TUC Radio used to have some of his talks for download. Don’t see them now. Too bad. Mucho fun to listen to.

Sure did, sorta steered clear of politics except in very small groups. This was not a mensa meeting.