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	<title>Comments on: The Immigration Raids: Harbinger Of A Police State?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/the-immigration-raids-harbinger-of-a-police-state/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/the-immigration-raids-harbinger-of-a-police-state/</link>
	<description>Firedoglake weblog</description>
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		<title>By: TobyWollin</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/the-immigration-raids-harbinger-of-a-police-state/#comment-1462057</link>
		<dc:creator>TobyWollin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 20:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/the-immigration-raids-harbinger-of-a-police-state/#comment-1462057</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;OK…I did not take the time to go through each and every comment, so if someone pointed this out, forgive me. Another thing about this raid in Iowa that really worries me is that this sort of stuff is another blow of the Administration that inures us to behaviors and unlawful and immoral uses of the law AND it also inures people in law enforcement bodies to performing these acts. People who usually should and do understand the concept of “we don’t do that” and “we can’t do that” all of a sudden ‘do’ and ‘can do’ stuff like this..and not only get away with it, but also get ‘attaboy’ for doing it. So, this deserves striking back in a big and powerful way at all levels so that everyone knows from the ground up that this is not acceptable and not lawful.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK…I did not take the time to go through each and every comment, so if someone pointed this out, forgive me. Another thing about this raid in Iowa that really worries me is that this sort of stuff is another blow of the Administration that inures us to behaviors and unlawful and immoral uses of the law AND it also inures people in law enforcement bodies to performing these acts. People who usually should and do understand the concept of “we don’t do that” and “we can’t do that” all of a sudden ‘do’ and ‘can do’ stuff like this..and not only get away with it, but also get ‘attaboy’ for doing it. So, this deserves striking back in a big and powerful way at all levels so that everyone knows from the ground up that this is not acceptable and not lawful.</p>
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		<title>By: strider7</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/the-immigration-raids-harbinger-of-a-police-state/#comment-1462038</link>
		<dc:creator>strider7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 19:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/the-immigration-raids-harbinger-of-a-police-state/#comment-1462038</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m not going to get into a pissing contest with you.&lt;br /&gt;
 I agree with alot of what your saying. Your suggestion about “defining” Fascsim seems to be a very effective way to approach the problem.I mean, by defining fascism you expose it and can destroy it,maybe.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m not going to get into a pissing contest with you.<br />
 I agree with alot of what your saying. Your suggestion about “defining” Fascsim seems to be a very effective way to approach the problem.I mean, by defining fascism you expose it and can destroy it,maybe.</p>
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		<title>By: NorskeFlamethrower</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/the-immigration-raids-harbinger-of-a-police-state/#comment-1462032</link>
		<dc:creator>NorskeFlamethrower</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 19:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/the-immigration-raids-harbinger-of-a-police-state/#comment-1462032</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Citizen Strider:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I too participated in the Vietnam adventure in empire.  My grampa Ole won a Purple Heart in the Ardennes Forest and my old man brought home a Purple Heart, Bronze and Silver Stars and a life of constant pain and emotional hell from the War in Europe.  Trust me, I understand the “song of violence” and the dance of death it brings, I was up to my bloody neck in it for 12 months.  I also know that people don’t have a choice when confronted by violent tyranny…you won’t hear me trumpeting the romance and heroism of the fight I am only warning of it’s inevitability.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Please identify your target before ya shoot yer mouth off!!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T SHOOT THE MESSENGER!!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Citizen Strider:</p>
<p>I too participated in the Vietnam adventure in empire.  My grampa Ole won a Purple Heart in the Ardennes Forest and my old man brought home a Purple Heart, Bronze and Silver Stars and a life of constant pain and emotional hell from the War in Europe.  Trust me, I understand the “song of violence” and the dance of death it brings, I was up to my bloody neck in it for 12 months.  I also know that people don’t have a choice when confronted by violent tyranny…you won’t hear me trumpeting the romance and heroism of the fight I am only warning of it’s inevitability.</p>
<p>Please identify your target before ya shoot yer mouth off!!</p>
<p>KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T SHOOT THE MESSENGER!!</p>
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		<title>By: strider7</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/the-immigration-raids-harbinger-of-a-police-state/#comment-1462027</link>
		<dc:creator>strider7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 18:48:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/the-immigration-raids-harbinger-of-a-police-state/#comment-1462027</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The link from phisio &lt;a href=&quot;mailto:prof@60&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;prof@60&lt;/a&gt; makes a great point that it ain’t gonna be “unicorns and rainbows”.&lt;br /&gt;
  When you talk about violence you had better “know your song well before you start singin”.Words are cheap.&lt;br /&gt;
 Your going to be asking people to beleive completely in your philosophy,die for it.Maybe that’s what it’s gonna take.&lt;br /&gt;
  I fought in Viet Nam and beleive me war is fucked.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The link from phisio <a href="mailto:prof@60" rel="nofollow">prof@60</a> makes a great point that it ain’t gonna be “unicorns and rainbows”.<br />
  When you talk about violence you had better “know your song well before you start singin”.Words are cheap.<br />
 Your going to be asking people to beleive completely in your philosophy,die for it.Maybe that’s what it’s gonna take.<br />
  I fought in Viet Nam and beleive me war is fucked.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk James Murphy, M.D.</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/the-immigration-raids-harbinger-of-a-police-state/#comment-1462025</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk James Murphy, M.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 18:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/the-immigration-raids-harbinger-of-a-police-state/#comment-1462025</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Love it!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love it!</p>
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		<title>By: strider7</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/the-immigration-raids-harbinger-of-a-police-state/#comment-1462021</link>
		<dc:creator>strider7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 18:32:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/the-immigration-raids-harbinger-of-a-police-state/#comment-1462021</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;the DOJ is a great example.If you spent years in law school and beleived in the rule of law and the constitution and devoted your life to it and then you run into someone like Monica Goodling,and your job is on the ropes because you won’t kiss her ass,I’d think you would might want to get even.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the DOJ is a great example.If you spent years in law school and beleived in the rule of law and the constitution and devoted your life to it and then you run into someone like Monica Goodling,and your job is on the ropes because you won’t kiss her ass,I’d think you would might want to get even.</p>
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		<title>By: NorskeFlamethrower</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/the-immigration-raids-harbinger-of-a-police-state/#comment-1462019</link>
		<dc:creator>NorskeFlamethrower</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 18:25:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/the-immigration-raids-harbinger-of-a-police-state/#comment-1462019</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;1,852 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Citizen Neiwert and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thank you for the post…may I have another, it doesn’t hurt enough!  I have appreciated your very important work on the definition and identification of authoritarian political movements in our country.  You have developed for us a very workable definition of fascism that in my mind properly tracks this modern form of the political disease back to slavery and the American South and the end of reconstruction and the rise of political terrorism and it’s institution as a governing structure in the South.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The institutional machinery for the implementation of a fascist police state has existed for a long time and we have dodged that bullet several times in the last 75-80 years only by the skin of our teeth and the a division in the ruling oligarchy that had allowed for a semi-free press. There aren’t any divisions anymore in the ruling group of families who control the political economy and the media through the corporate structure. The ideological solidification of the domestic police forces, the disintegration of the state militias, the collapse of a productive employment economy and, of course, the buying of the Congress and courts have led us to the precipice on which we teeter right now.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The fascism we confront now is a political movement that has no intellectual foundation and no organized philosophy of governance…it is a political movement based on fear and physical power and it’s existence within the constitutional framework of government these last 8 years has allowed for the destruction or the complete corruption of all of the institutions, federal and local, that were designed to preserve the safety of the individual and mitigate against the consolidation of power by any faction.  The immigration raids, then, are not a “harbinger” of a coming police state but the announcement of it’s arrival.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now can we start callin’ the Republican party fascist and it’s followers and fellow travelers fascists?  It seems to me that our only way out is to establish a political movement within the remainin political party that offers itself as an anti-fascist front and extends its arms to all those disenfranchised by the current authoritarian regime…and if ya look carefully enough, I think you will recognize that effort in Obama’s work to date.  I am NOT optimistic about the success of this anti- fascist movement with out violent confrontations in the streets and some kind of organized resistance inside what is left of the public military.  Remember, billions our tax dollars have gone to establishing and equipping a corporate mercenary army of over 100,000 while at the same time the government has been hollowing out the federal militia.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, FEAR IS JEST A WORD!!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1,852 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…</p>
<p>Citizen Neiwert and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:</p>
<p>Thank you for the post…may I have another, it doesn’t hurt enough!  I have appreciated your very important work on the definition and identification of authoritarian political movements in our country.  You have developed for us a very workable definition of fascism that in my mind properly tracks this modern form of the political disease back to slavery and the American South and the end of reconstruction and the rise of political terrorism and it’s institution as a governing structure in the South.  </p>
<p>The institutional machinery for the implementation of a fascist police state has existed for a long time and we have dodged that bullet several times in the last 75-80 years only by the skin of our teeth and the a division in the ruling oligarchy that had allowed for a semi-free press. There aren’t any divisions anymore in the ruling group of families who control the political economy and the media through the corporate structure. The ideological solidification of the domestic police forces, the disintegration of the state militias, the collapse of a productive employment economy and, of course, the buying of the Congress and courts have led us to the precipice on which we teeter right now.</p>
<p>The fascism we confront now is a political movement that has no intellectual foundation and no organized philosophy of governance…it is a political movement based on fear and physical power and it’s existence within the constitutional framework of government these last 8 years has allowed for the destruction or the complete corruption of all of the institutions, federal and local, that were designed to preserve the safety of the individual and mitigate against the consolidation of power by any faction.  The immigration raids, then, are not a “harbinger” of a coming police state but the announcement of it’s arrival.</p>
<p>Now can we start callin’ the Republican party fascist and it’s followers and fellow travelers fascists?  It seems to me that our only way out is to establish a political movement within the remainin political party that offers itself as an anti-fascist front and extends its arms to all those disenfranchised by the current authoritarian regime…and if ya look carefully enough, I think you will recognize that effort in Obama’s work to date.  I am NOT optimistic about the success of this anti- fascist movement with out violent confrontations in the streets and some kind of organized resistance inside what is left of the public military.  Remember, billions our tax dollars have gone to establishing and equipping a corporate mercenary army of over 100,000 while at the same time the government has been hollowing out the federal militia.</p>
<p>KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, FEAR IS JEST A WORD!!</p>
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		<title>By: Marion in Savannah</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/the-immigration-raids-harbinger-of-a-police-state/#comment-1462018</link>
		<dc:creator>Marion in Savannah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 18:23:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/the-immigration-raids-harbinger-of-a-police-state/#comment-1462018</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;I guess its treatable&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Well, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/genital-herpes/DS00179/DSECTION=6&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;it is treatable&lt;/a&gt; but not curable.  Like they say, love may die but Herpes is forever.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I guess its treatable</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Well, <a href="http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/genital-herpes/DS00179/DSECTION=6" rel="nofollow">it is treatable</a> but not curable.  Like they say, love may die but Herpes is forever.</p>
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		<title>By: strider7</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/the-immigration-raids-harbinger-of-a-police-state/#comment-1462013</link>
		<dc:creator>strider7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 18:19:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/the-immigration-raids-harbinger-of-a-police-state/#comment-1462013</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;That gets real close doesn’t it.&lt;br /&gt;
 Where in the hell would you begin?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That gets real close doesn’t it.<br />
 Where in the hell would you begin?</p>
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		<title>By: katymine</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/the-immigration-raids-harbinger-of-a-police-state/#comment-1462012</link>
		<dc:creator>katymine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 18:18:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/the-immigration-raids-harbinger-of-a-police-state/#comment-1462012</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;June 26th… &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hey Dr.Kirk is upstairs ….&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>June 26th… </p>
<p>Hey Dr.Kirk is upstairs ….</p>
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