The United States said on Monday that it told the U.N. High Commission for Human Rights that it has detained 500 youngsters under 18 since April 2008 until now. “The U.S. held 500 Iraqi minors in custody since April 2008 and it held 2100 minors since 2003, whom it said they took part in operations against the Coalition forces in Iraq,” the UNHR said in a statement in its website.
Human Rights Watch fills in the details:
US military authorities, operating as the Multinational Forces in Iraq, were as of May 12, 2008 holding 513 Iraqi children as “imperative threats to security,” and have transferred an unknown number of other children to Iraqi custody. According to a recent report by the United Nations Assistance Mission in Iraq (UNAMI), children in Iraqi custody are at risk of physical abuse.
(snip)
Since 2003, the US has detained some 2,400 children in Iraq, including children as young as 10. Detention rates rose drastically in 2007 to an average of 100 new children a month from 25 a month in 2006. The US holds most children at US Camp Cropper in Baghdad, but has also held children at the main US military detention facility, Camp Bucca near Basra. US officials earlier this year told Human Rights Watch that they separate children from adults at these facilities but do not separate very young or particularly vulnerable children from other child detainees.
Child detainees, no differently from adults, may be interrogated over the course of days or weeks by military units in the field before being sent to the main detention centers. They have no real opportunity to challenge their detention: earlier this year US officials told Human Rights Watch that children are not provided with lawyers and do not attend the one-week or one-month detention reviews after their transfer to Camp Cropper. In addition, children have very limited contact with their families. While the US does assign each child a military “advocate” at the mandatory six-month detention review, that advocate has no training in juvenile justice or child development.
As of February 2008, the reported average length of detention for children was more than 130 days, and some children have been detained for more than a year without charge or trial:
“The vast majority of children detained in Iraq languish for months in US military custody,” Clarisa Bencomo, Middle East children’s researcher at Human Rights Watch said. “The US should provide these children with immediate access to lawyers and an independent judicial review of their detention.”
While these youngsters languish in detention for a year or more without charge, we also learned this week that the two US Marines who commanded a 120 person unit that shot up civilians in Aghanistan, killing an estimated 19 and wounding 50, have had their day in court and will not be charged:
[JURIST] A Marine Corps General Friday declined to press charges against two US Marines involved in a March 2007 incident [CENTCOM press release] in which 30 US Marines opened fire on civilians alongside a road in Nangahar province, Afghanistan, after a suicide bomber drove a vehicle carrying explosives into their convoy.
(snip)
A preliminary US military investigation found that the Marines began firing at bystanders, including women and elderly men, along a several mile stretch of road as they left the scene. As many as 19 civilians were killed and another 50 injured. The soldiers are members of a Marine Corps Special Forces unit under the command of the United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) and were sent to Afghanistan to carry out special reconnaissance, intelligence and commando missions. The Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commissionsee (AIHRC) released a report (see below for link] )ast year claiming the soldiers violated international humanitarian law [JURIST report] by using indiscriminate and excessive force in its response to the suicide bombing.
The full report by the AIHRC is chilling – you can read it here (pdf). Along with descriptions of the cleanup coverup of the site and refusal to allow media access, it includes accounts from eyewitnesses:
“I was following a road leading to the main road about 500 meters away from the site of
the explosion in the Spin Pul area. My car was stopped 40 meters away from the ISAF convoy,
which was on the main road. Suddenly they opened fire on my car and shot more than 240
bullets. I myself jumped out of the car and got injured, but my father, friend and my nephew were killed in the car” (AIHRC interview, 12 March 2007).
And:
According to the reports of numerous witnesses and the Nangahar police several vehicles,
including taxis, minibuses and a Coaster bus as well as a number of pedestrians and bystanders came under attack by the American convoy in at least six different locations (see Annex 2 for a
list of the vehicles damaged by the shooting). The shootings are spread over a distance of 16
kilometers from the site of the initial firing at the location of the VBIED detonation to the last
confirmed civilian victims in Barikau, Batikot district. Several of the vehicles fired upon were
stationary when they came under attack and the reports uniformly indicate that the targets were exclusively civilian in nature and that no kind of provocative or threatening behavior on their part preceded the attacks.One eyewitness states: “I heard a big blast … after that I heard guns firing. A Coalition Forces
vehicle arrived at my fuel station and opened fire on me and on laborers working beneath the
[nearby] bridge. One woman in front of her house was hit by bullets and another woman from
Kabul was killed in a Coaster vehicle on the road” (AIHRC interview, 8 March 2007).
The findings of the US Marine Court of Inquiry for these killings are not going to be made public (and may in fact recommend some level of prosecution). The Marine Central Command has ruled the actions appropriate under the Rules of Engagement and the matter is dropped.
But the children in Iraq don’t even get a hearing …
Speaking of legal matters, reports are circulating that Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani has issued several fatwas which encourage or do not condemn resistance to “foreign occupiers.” Fatwas are a term that we see often and I wanted to point folks to a new essay in the GorillasGuides for the Perplexed which provides a very informative introduction to Fatwas. As the reports like those this week emerge, it’s very handy to have this background guide.
The latest report – from Fars News via Huffington Post and Juan Cole – is that the Grand Ayatollah has said that "Selling foodstuffs to the Occupying Powers is not permitted." (h/t Trex!) The question and answer do not appear to be on the Grand Ayatollah’s website but the continuing reports of this kind suggest that he is taking a more active stand against the occupation and the planned status of forces agreement Bush and Maliki are negotiating. Note that Amb Crocker has been making a lot of noise recently about encouraging corporate investment in Karbala and using a visit to Najaf as the platform for claiming that it is proof of Iraq’s sovereignty that the Iraqi government is the party asking for the status of forces agreement. The choice of these two holy cities for Crocker’s statements seems to me like a definite provocation to the Shia faithful.
Update: Mohammed Ibn Laith is reporting that there has also been a "surge" in honor killings in Kurdistan.
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War crimes.
Nodding … yes Laura.
disgraceful
jus cogens!
“Rules of engagement” – did John Yoo write those?
Who decides? Isn’t it just kill everyone if we feel like it?
Children being held is beyond words. For what?
I don’t know why anyone is surprised by anything this administration does any more. If it is illegal – they seem to view that as specifically not applying to them. Well, according to John Yoo it doesn’t since according to his reasoning, if any law doesn’t SPECIFICALLY NAME Bush or his other sycophants, then it doesn’t apply to them. This includes US Laws and the Constitution, Treaties, International Laws and Conventions, and common law that has existed for centuries.
I read a rumor that the CIA is holding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s two young children and that they either have been tortured or KSM has been told that they were or would be tortured – and so he has confessed to being the mastermind of every terrorist plot since the USS Cole up until now. (The boys are 7 and 9 years old). Apparently Amnesty International and the International Red Cross and the Red Crescent have all been trying to obtain info on the kids’ whereabouts, with no success.
As I said – it’s a rumor – but nowdays, anything I hear like this, I’m more inclined to believe because of the track record.
Every time I think they can’t lower the bar any further, it drops again, with a sickening new ‘policy’ that ultimately results in innocent people being killed, injured, and traumatized in every way possible.
The really sad part of this is, what is it doing to our soldiers who are tasked with carrying out these policies? No wonder they are commiting suicide at a rate of over 1000 per month.
This is so hard to take.
It’s like many years ago, when I was pregnant, I couldn’t watch the Sally Struthers ads without bawling.
It is disgraceful. You said it wobbly….
How many women are we holding in addition to the children, and what has been done to them?
The accounts of the soldiers in Afghanistan shooting up people for …16 Kilometers! is stunning.
and there the entire Iraqi story is told
when you occupy a country, if you are not seen as benefactors you will teach the youngest of the country that you are the enemies
this is the biggest point most people miss when they try to defend policies that condone torturer
let’s ignore the fact that we get less information when we torture, that information is far more useful and actionable when the professionals are allowed to use the other methods and when torture is prohibited
you see, an enemy is more inclined to surrender, more inclined to offer info, more inclined to agree with your cause if you do not condone torture
so even if we did get usable information using torture, we lose MORE information then we might have gained
but that’s not the point of this post, I am pointing out that when you are recognized as allowing torture you mobilize and enable your enemies
moderates become extremists, extremists become heroes and children become your enemies
those are the real costs of torture, the information you might have gained, the captives who might have joined your cause, the youth who might have respected you, the patriots of their country who might have welcomed you
I haven’t found a recent figure for women held … it had been remaining at several hundred but I would like to update that when I can find a trustworthy source.
Anyone catch Andy Rooney on the horrible MSM 60 Minutes? He reflected on the friends he lost in WWII and concluded the best way to honor them was to find a way to avoid further wars for the children. Grumpy old fuck.
From the ACLU’s report on the UN grilling of US: here
perris,
Right you are. And people who normally would be swayed to our cause because they would be sure they would be treated with dignity and respect now know differently. There was a news headline recently that a Gitmo detainee who had been released had just been captured again in Iraq fighting against the US. Gee whiz. The guy was probably some innocent goat-farmer before, but do you blame him now?
Sick and sicker.
Laura Doty:
Yeah, the OPTIONAL GUIDELINES. This Administration takes words like that to be just what they mean. Optional means I don’t really have to do it. Guidelines means I only have to do it if it’s convenient or if I feel like it but if I don’t it’s okay too.
Thanks for that link Laura!
GorillasGuides also had a great piece by Dave Lindorff – Bush’s War on Children
This doesn’t even begin to touch on what the U.S., what we, did in Fallujah. I can’t find the link right now, but the description of taking children–boys–away from their mothers (trying to leave) and and forcing them to return to the city, before they bombed it.
Oh! There’s the link! Thanks, Siun.
And Bush and the sycophant crowd on why 9/11 happened:
“Oh they hate us for our freedoms.”
No, they hate us because we are torturers, we are child killers, we lie, we cheat, we steal, we are the actual terrorists.
(Not the people – our government, although I am beginning to believe that WE are all complicit. We keep hearing one outrage like this after the other, and where is OUR outrage? Why haven’t we stormed the White House and locked these war criminals up?)
I’ll be right behind you John Wayne.
(bows) Konichiwah, Wobbs
The Rethug Party – the No Child Left Untortured party
He’s got point, right?
Left ya one downstairs.
Oh wait, I thought only US soldiers’ lives mattered. I mean, if those kids were supposed to matter, why didn’t they choose to be born in the US? And then they had the temerity not to wear US flasg pins on their didees.
How’re we supposed to have compassion for unpatriotic urchins like that?
(anger grows…)
I’m pissed at Bush. And Cheney/Rummy/Feith/and everyone who contributed to this bloody mess. Even the minority of Dems who did.
Every sizeable waer features murder, rape, torture, death of innocents exceeding the deaths of combatants. So much was predictable and so many so-called leaders just didn’t care. And some STILL don’t. They are not leaders, but cowards.They do not promote democracy, they promote profit. And they sold their souls so we can watch kids die.
And our only weapon to stop it is to get out the vote.
Oh Siun. These past few yrs, I was starting that “old-age” thingie – dry eyes. Painful cure, but it works on that, anyway.
The “baggage” left by this administration is utterly inhumane, criminal, and utterly heartless.
There’s the answer right there (no offense). Everyone waiting for ’someone else to do something’.
It applies to me as well. I feel just as helpless to do anything as the next person, it just makes me cry some days for our lost humanity.
Late selling corrections for #23: ‘flag’ not ‘flasg’ and ‘war’ not ‘waer’.
Sigh… ’spelling’ not ’selling’
I think we have other weapons, along with the vote. For one, talking about this. With our friends, at school, in churches, temples, in gyms. People. Don’t. Know.
And it’s hard for folks to keep attention on this. It hurts a lot, and it’s easier sometimes for folks to look away or get swallowed up by a sense of powerlessness.
Preview is mah fren
How about a letter campaign demanding that the Red Cross/Red Crescent be allowed to check on these children.
(Along with a fundraiser for them with fellow progressive blogs….)
If people here really knew each other that might hold some truth, but they don’t.
I try to do that as much as possible. I hit “reply all” on the stupid right-wing emails. I talk and talk and argue with my Rethug-leaning friends. Almost got into a knock-down drag-out with my favorite uncle. But I keep soldiering on – got to. Couldn’t live with myself if I gave up now.
Where are the ministers in our country and what are they saying on Sunday mornings? I don’t mean wingers like Hagee – I’m talking about regular ministers who are supposed to lead their people to do the right thing. Are they afraid to speak out – I’m asking because I don’t know but I don’t read anything about them.
The Landing on Mars!
Thats a very good idea!
We’ve all talked a bit before about a fundraiser for Red Crescent as well as a book drive – I’ve been a bit swamped with some other blog work but hope we can start organizing soon. And folks who would like to help can email me at media dot firedoglake at gmail dot com – I’ll collect a list and then connect everyone to work together.
Who’s going to Netroots Nation? I’d love to meet you Suin. You are SUCH an important voice.
Please put me on the top of your list, Siun.
Siun. Sorry…
I am going to go out on a limb here and make a request that, given the painfulness of this subject, we make an agreement to keep off-topic conversations in the last thread. I’ve observed many times that the most painful threads become zones of distraction. It doesn’t further the effort. I don’t mean to single anyone out, and I certainly don’t mean to be rude. Just focused.
(she said in a loving voice tone).
I feel like I know some people here.
Me too!
Another avenue would be to ask one’s union, professional organization, youth sports league, church , city council to condemn the U.S. treatment of child so-called combatants….
How would one even start? First we have to actually get the CIA to admit they even have the kids!
After that, if we actually found out they are fine, how do we get them back to their mother since she is by definition a “terrist” and their dad is the devil incarnate?
Is there an international organization on the order of the ACLU that might help in this effort? (Not that our illustrious government would pay any attention to them)
Sorry.
I also keep thinking about what it would be like to have a website where people could upload pictures of themselves with signs expressing solidarity with Iraq, or dismay about things like torture. Imagine people being able to tune in from all over the world and see this on-going virtual demonstration. It’s something (web stuff) that I’m completely ignorant about….but I’ll bet someone could do this, and I would help if I were told what was needed.
(I thought your comment was on topic…it’s about what we’re doing as a community, yes?)
Gotcha, Laura.
I think Laura is right that the best organization to help would be the Iraq Red Crescent. The International Red Cross visits prisoners worldwide and provides very important services. The fact that we are not allowing such standard visits is a horror and insisting on allowing them would be a great first step.
Did the war funding into next year pass this week?
Lotsa folks drinking “liberally” tonight, as per all the typos, eh?
;~P
Yes.
I try to witness my beliefs in every avenue that I’m involved in.
Tough sometimes on a Sunday evening.
No disrespect meant.
I don’t know if there is a good time to face this stuff.
Actually the Friends Committee on National Legislation has a campaign sort of like that. You can get a sign from them or make one and take a picture of yourself or your group with it and upload it.
Their sign says “War is Not the Answer”.
We could do something similar…
Yes it did, but it needs to go back to the House for another vote – and then Bush says he’s going to veto it because it includes the new Webb GI Bill, more fundiing for the VA, an order regarding mandatory testing for PTSD, and a raise of 3.9% for the troops. (Pork, in other words.)
I don’t know how to link to an email newsletter, but the organization is http://www.fcnl.org so I think you could go there and see the pictures. We had a huge group photo from my hometown on there last week – it was great!
‘Course you have to be careful – FCNL is a ‘terrist’ organization – they have actually gone to Iran and talked to Mahmoud Ahmedinijad and they have also gone to Gaza and talked to the guy in charge of Hamas. Horrors!
Any word on how the House will vote?
I think that the Senate’s vote was veto proof?
Do you know anything about how to get started with a letter campaign such as this? I know FDL has done a couple in the past on national issues – but this one is a lot bigger…just asking for info since I don’t have a clue.
Thanks
Diane Benson, who wants to take Don Young’s place in congress this November, gave a riveting speech on children and ending this insane war yesterday at the Alaska Democratic Party Convention.
Thank you loky. That’s sort of what I’m looking for. I remember that someone did something like this around the time of the invasion. You could go to the site and all it was was picture after picture of people saying they wanted peace. Something that folks from everywhere could click on and see. That other blogs could link to. Sort of a Not In Our Name thingy. A virtual demonstration. Something people would WANT to get on.
Great link – they have always done such good work!
http://www.truthout.org/articl…..nding-bill
Actually, you are thinking about the Webb amendment to the bill. The Senate bill I don’t know if it was veto-proof or not. The House actually did not pass it first time around, and the link is to a story that tells a lot more about what is going on with the war funding overall.
It’s basically a “pass-the-buck” to get Bush his wish and not have to really discuss the issue until after the elections with whoever is the new President. Hopefully, the amendments mean Bush WILL actually veto it – then all we need to do is persuade the Congress to not bring another bill up for a vote – although fat chance on that.
We’ve been trying to push back on these shenanigans and get a direct opposition to funding but you are so right … once again, its give Bush what he wants while pretending to oppose him … and toss in some awful items like making the Iraqis pay for the reconstruction.
I hope Feingold brings up another amendment.. separating the Dems from the not Dems.
I’m not all that familiar with MySpace and social networking sites like that (I avoid them like the plague actually) but I know the Obama campaign has used it to great effect. Maybe someone who actually knows something about it could set up an account there and post a picture and a description of what it is for (that way it isn’t associated with a particular organization (like FDL which the right considers a left-wing blankety blank site) and that way it would be available for the internet – and anyone could still post a pic and a comment too. I think there are a lot of right-leaning people who are or would be uncomfortable with the notion of child-torture and detainment but they certainly wouldn’t post their picture on a left-wing site (no offense to FDL!!!)
Yeah, right on!
I know Blue America is making headway getting rid of some of those not-Dems – but it’s an uphill battle in a lot of cases.
More and BETTER Democrats!
I think that’s a wonderful idea. Does anyone know how to do this? Or know someone who does?
(Is Peanut Butter here????)
Peanut Butter hasn’t been around for a long while, but I’ve seen her at the Treehouse. (TRex)
So, Siun, could you write a short paragraph for the site that basically says what the campaign is about and link to your story or to other supporting sites once we get a MySpace or Facebook page started?
The reason I’m asking you is because of the great story above – and therefore you are a natural!
A little off subject but equally disturbing
http://www.tomdispatch.com/pos…..raq_debate
excerpt
“What kind of normal life can you live when you have to bid farewell to your family each time you go out to buy bread because you don’t know if you are going to see them again? What is a normal life to Mr. Bush? If we’re lucky, we get a few hours of electricity a day, barely enough drinking water, no health care, no jobs to feed our kids…
“Little teenage girls are given away in marriage because their families can’t protect them from militias and troops during raids. Women cannot move unescorted anymore. What kind of educations are our children getting at universities where 60% of the prominent faculty members have been driven out of their jobs — killed or forced to leave the country by government militias? Is it normal that areas [on the outskirts of Baghdad] like Saidiya and Arab Jubour are bombed because the occupation forces are afraid to enter the areas for fear of the resistance? It is always easier to control ghost cities. It becomes very peaceful without the people.”
out there beyond the pale, where (D) factional partisans fear to visit, Chris Floyd writes:
if Mr. Floyd is wrong, a citation to recent pledges by Obama to unconditionally and totally withdraw American occupying forces and mercenaries from that tortured land would suffice.
it’s the right thing to do, its what the American people want, why can’t the candidate of ‘change’ do it?
TRex.
Thanks, LH. I thought maybe she was lurking. I will email her, and ask if she might be able/free to do this….
Exactly.
And it’s not just small outskirt communities – we have essentially built a wall around Sadr City – home to almost 2 million – and are dropping anywhere from 40,000 to 100,000 of bombs on it per week.
Sorry, correction: 40,000 to 100,000 POUNDS of bombs per week. Not that that matters to the people on the ground.
In a word – money. We’ve spent untold billions on the new “embassy” and the surrounds – the Pentagon has just revealed plans for a new “hotel and convention center megalopolis” within the Green Zone and is actively recruiting companies to build this monstrosity. No say by the Iraqis if they want it or not. That’s why we need to ‘leave some troops’ to protect all this crap against the denizens of that poor country who just want their country back and want us OUT of there!
Of course, Obama has to get elected first. And if he says he is going to withdraw completely and unconditionally, he unleashes the dogs screaming “cut and run”, “coward”, “surrender-monkey”, etc etc etc.
Got to get elected first – then we’ll see what we see. Unfortunately our political process is so corrupt that even the most honest politician (I know, and oxy-moron) we have seen in 40 years cannot really tell us the truth if he actually expects to be able to occupy the White House.
We could definitely set up a Facebook page to use for this …. let me look into best way to do it and also if we can coordinate it with a blogswarm for the Red Crescent.
The Air Surge has been extremely well covered at TomDispatch and we’ve been discussing it each week as well … it’s maddening to see it ignored overall though I gather the NYT recently noticed for a day.
Well, for what it’s worth, here a Wapo article dated today, on the Iraq Spending Bill…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00168.html
I only read the first page, and it doesn’t mention what we’re doing to help stop the torture of the innocents.
Because the true Masters of this Country, the people who control Wall Street don’t want to. War is good business. The simple act of making any article “Mil-Spec” increases the cost of any item from a screw to an IC Chip, five fold (I once worked in the Defense Industry).Good old Smedley Butler nailed it…
Very cool, Siun.
I would also like to see some links to Muslims in this country explaining that terrorism is NOT Islam, any more than a murderer is an upstanding citizen. There are lots of them around – and they have been denouncing terrorism all over the place – but of course the MSM claims they are silent while ignoring every one of them who says anything to disabuse the common notions being promoted.
http://www.beliefnet.com/gallery/terrorist.html
http://www.beliefnet.com/story…..324_1.html
Here are a couple of links of the type I mean.
I truly believe that we must also begin to deal with this (racist) issue that is permeating this country right now that the Iraqis are less than human. It is perpetuated by the Pentagon refusing to enumerate casualties on the Iraqi side (unless it’s the latest #2 al Queda) whether civilian or ‘military’. And unless we also do some work on that – it kind of plays into the idea that we just don’t (need to) care about ‘those people’.
Stereotyping every one of the over 1 billion Muslims in the world as terrorists also plays into this same canard. Rod Parsley and his ilk are just the most visible manifestations of that bigotry. The second link explains why terrorism is no more representative of Islam than the ‘terrorism’ of the Irish troubles is representative of the Catholic and Protestant faiths.
Al Queda is fleeing Mosul…according to the AP.
Once we get the Facebook page set up – everyone on here MUST make a commitment to send the info and links to everyone in their address book and every other blog they participate in or lurk at. And if anyone you know doesn’t have a computer – offer to take their pic and put it on anyway!
Thanks..
September should be a very good time for a full grass root court press..
Lokywoky … you have a lot of good ideas. You might want to check out Facebook and create a page with some of these ideas … it’s very easy and while most folks use their pages as social sites, you can use them any way you like.
Also you may not realize we discuss these issues every week at this time here … we’ve been honored to have visitors from Iraq join us at times (logistics make this extremely hard) and this is definitely a respect for Islam zone.
In case you don’t know.. you can register your facebook info here. Click on the “F” before my name (and anyone else with an “F”) to go directly to their facebook page.
I am not on Facebook and have no intention of getting on it. I don’t think we want to tell people they MUST do something.
loky & nonplussed …
good points … it pains me to see the genuine enthusiasm and yearning for change and justice channelled so easily into another business as usual candidate.
not to mention the genuine horror at the human carnage in Iraq chanelled into support for a candidate who cannot pledge himself to end it.
the war should be more than just a wedge issue to use to gain electoral traction against the (R)’s – it is a central, definging issue of our time, like Vietnam was in the 1960’s.
It is, in the words of U.S. Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson:
So, if a candidate cannot commit to drawing to a close the “supreme international crime” why are they worth supporting in any way?
okay. sorry for unfortunate choice of words.
This is really important and I tend to get hyped-up about it.
OfT: On a more positive note, we made it to Mars.
Maybe there’s some martians up there we can invade…
So Siun, are you going to look into creating a facebook page, or….? I will, if you don’t have time. It looks pretty simple….but I don’t think it will really create a virtual demonstration. That would be something different. but, still, it would be a start.
teddy’s upstairs
loky…
my brother-in-law is Amir Hussein, a Muslim who has a doctorate of divinity and teaches at Loyola Marymount in LA. He’s has authored Oil And Water and has been interviewed on NPR…you can look that and him up. He has some interesting takes…
Exactly. My candidate of choice was one of only three people in the race who did commit to Getting Out on Day One. Dennis Kucinich. (others were Mike Gravel and Ron Paul). Although Ron Paul is still in the race – we all know how all three fared with the MSM, and consequently with the public. When you cannot get the MSM to even acknowledge that you are running – it’s awfully hard to have a candidacy. You cannot raise money, you can’t get heard. Even though if you take all the issues and ask people about their preferred positions – Dennis met them all every time. But he’s a shrimp who believes in UFOs and somehow managed to snag that gorgeous wife so what’s that about? Nothing on the actual issues of course.
Apparently Bill Clinton’s Campaign ordered Jerry Brown to give up his 1992 Campaign to win the Democratic Convention or he would be denied the right to speak at the Convention.
Thanks for everything, Siun. Another out of the ball park, today, ON TOP of the book salon. You work very hard. I hope you know how much you’re appreciated!
What are we going to call it? (the group)
Thanks demi, I will.
I just wish Gorillas Guides were mandatory reading for everyone who thinks this war is great.
Laura … thanks! I’ll be in touch (and again, volunteers who want to work on the projects we’ve been discussing the last few weeks can email me so we can start a list) and we’ll get this started – facebook or elsewhere.
How about something simple like:
I Stand Up for Child Detainees
or…..?
Is it possible to use the Facebook thing as a jumping off place for a virtual demonstration? I know they keep talking about how the Obama campaign has used it for an organizing tool…
Excellent!
Or .. We Stand Up…..
I’m not going to stop thinking about this, and I hope people who read this who are more web savvy will also please give it some thought. I can be reached through fb….just leave me a note when you friend me….
or through Siun’s new list…..
thank you, all.
YES!
Sweetheart, I’m not sure that alot of Those People read.
I’m probably wrong.
Or, if they read, it’s not Big Picture, or Walk In The Other Guy’s Sandals kinda stuff.
I wish/hope I’m wrong.
I guess I’d really like to focus on one or two issues – and right now this one about the children is really pulling at me. I have worked with disadvantaged children in this country for years, as a CASA/guardian ad litem, and founding a community resource center with a special emphasis on the needs of troubled kids. I have had a number of family and health issues and haven’t been active for a while – still can’t physically do much – but this ‘virtual campaign’ seems like something I would really like to be involved with. And instead of starting a site of my own – I’d like to contribute to this group effort to try and make it as big and successful as we can!
See… you’re such a nice person.
I’d title it (on a cranky nite)…
Don’t Be An Asshole. Save those Sweet Babies!!!
:)
propaganda is strong. But, still, we can be free of despair. There are other levels besides the realm of thought through which change works it ways….
Please send your email to Siun and we’ll get started on something you can contribute to. It sounds like you have many connections among people who care about children. Your outreach to them will be so helpful.
I like the “I Stand Up” but do you think we need to have something about the kids – otherwise how will people know to find it?
Ha!
We Stand Up for Child Detainees.
Lokywoky … I’m sure we can coordinate a group of folks to work on some of the things we’ve discussed tonight and over the last few weeks … what I’m suggesting though is that if you have a lot of things you feel people should do, you might enjoy starting to learn about some of the tools that will enable you to do them as well. This is after all a very DIY media and the more of us who learn the tools, the better.
Oh, yes.
Mysterious ways indeed.
All joking aside, after you hook up with Siun, email me on FB.
I’m in.
You betcha.
Thanks Siun for the encouragement.
I first learned about computers in the Navy in 1969 – but this stuff is so far over my head I’m doing good to just barely function. I did set up my own blog recently, and have been posting – but of course, no one is reading it but me. Oh well. That’s why at this point I’d rather join a cooperative effort because together as a group we can get more done.
Nite all.
Peace and love to each and everyone of you.
One way to share your blog posts is to include a link in your profile here at FDL – just add the address to your registration information.
Good night all! and send me email addresses so we can all coordinate.