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	<title>Comments on: FDL Book Salon Welcomes Jeff Sharlet: The Family, The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power</title>
	<atom:link href="http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeff-sharlet-the-family-the-secret-fundamentalism-at-the-heart-of-american-power/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeff-sharlet-the-family-the-secret-fundamentalism-at-the-heart-of-american-power/</link>
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		<title>By: hackworth</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeff-sharlet-the-family-the-secret-fundamentalism-at-the-heart-of-american-power/#comment-1462350</link>
		<dc:creator>hackworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 00:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeff-sharlet-the-family-the-secret-fundamentalism-at-the-heart-of-american-power/#comment-1462350</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You know your &lt;em&gt;religion &lt;/em&gt;better than anyone I know. Very impressive.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know your <em>religion </em>better than anyone I know. Very impressive.</p>
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		<title>By: cinnamonape</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeff-sharlet-the-family-the-secret-fundamentalism-at-the-heart-of-american-power/#comment-1462331</link>
		<dc:creator>cinnamonape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 23:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeff-sharlet-the-family-the-secret-fundamentalism-at-the-heart-of-american-power/#comment-1462331</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;That’d be news to the Jews, the Muslims, the pagans, and all the atheists who somehow have managed to figure out that slavery is evil w/ out Christ’s, or Cal’s help.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And all those blacks in the South who were enslaved by good ol’ God Fearing Fundamentalist (and Mormon, Methodist, Catholic, etc.) plantation owners.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Odd that it took almost 1800 years before Christians suddenly were struck with the notion that slavery was evil.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>That’d be news to the Jews, the Muslims, the pagans, and all the atheists who somehow have managed to figure out that slavery is evil w/ out Christ’s, or Cal’s help.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>And all those blacks in the South who were enslaved by good ol’ God Fearing Fundamentalist (and Mormon, Methodist, Catholic, etc.) plantation owners.</p>
<p>Odd that it took almost 1800 years before Christians suddenly were struck with the notion that slavery was evil.</p>
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		<title>By: cinnamonape</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeff-sharlet-the-family-the-secret-fundamentalism-at-the-heart-of-american-power/#comment-1462323</link>
		<dc:creator>cinnamonape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 23:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeff-sharlet-the-family-the-secret-fundamentalism-at-the-heart-of-american-power/#comment-1462323</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;The Nag Hammadi discoveries came after the founding of the Fellowship … but there is a definitely gnostic tone to their belief in some ways I think. (been many years since I studied in that playground)&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There were Gnostic Manuscripts known before the Nag Hammadi texts were discovered; Carl Jung purchased one that emerged in a Cairo booksellars that was later auctioned off in Europe. He premised much of his “transformed” psychotherapy on Gnostic principles. Alan Watts was also influenced by Gnosticism. There are traditions of Gnostic belief that were passed on covertly down through the ages - it became “elitist” only after Orthodox Christian states cracked down on the many Gnostic factions and sects in the 3rd and 4th centuries.  In fact St. Patrick, it’s widely acknowledged, was likely an Arian evangelist. Fear kept it a privileged belief system of a few elites (e.g. Newton wrote many theological texts, never published, which expressed the view; and the Unitarian-Universalist church may have sprung from like groups; Jefferson and Paine were also influenced by these groups). Arianism was the last large-scale Gnostic movement.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I skeptical of any relationship between the “Family” and either early Gnosticism or its later revivals.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The Nag Hammadi discoveries came after the founding of the Fellowship … but there is a definitely gnostic tone to their belief in some ways I think. (been many years since I studied in that playground)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>There were Gnostic Manuscripts known before the Nag Hammadi texts were discovered; Carl Jung purchased one that emerged in a Cairo booksellars that was later auctioned off in Europe. He premised much of his “transformed” psychotherapy on Gnostic principles. Alan Watts was also influenced by Gnosticism. There are traditions of Gnostic belief that were passed on covertly down through the ages &#8211; it became “elitist” only after Orthodox Christian states cracked down on the many Gnostic factions and sects in the 3rd and 4th centuries.  In fact St. Patrick, it’s widely acknowledged, was likely an Arian evangelist. Fear kept it a privileged belief system of a few elites (e.g. Newton wrote many theological texts, never published, which expressed the view; and the Unitarian-Universalist church may have sprung from like groups; Jefferson and Paine were also influenced by these groups). Arianism was the last large-scale Gnostic movement.</p>
<p>I skeptical of any relationship between the “Family” and either early Gnosticism or its later revivals.</p>
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		<title>By: cinnamonape</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeff-sharlet-the-family-the-secret-fundamentalism-at-the-heart-of-american-power/#comment-1462311</link>
		<dc:creator>cinnamonape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 23:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeff-sharlet-the-family-the-secret-fundamentalism-at-the-heart-of-american-power/#comment-1462311</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;About half of the early pre-Nicene Christian world were associated with what would be called “gnostic sects” today. They were definitely not hierarchal, or top-down, and that was part of the reason that led to their downfall. They were diverse, often local, and generally disorganized and without established structures. It was passed on through roving “gurus” (although a few early Church Bishops dabbled in the Philosophy). Many gnostic groups, scholars believe, were remarkably sexually egalitarian and even non-age graded. Paryer leaders and those in charge of rituals could rotate between individuals within the group. Although literacy was often important as books could sometimes be read for “secrets” that emerged when read from a gnostic perspective…illiterates also could come to such revelations from examining oral traditions. Thus new works were not anathema to gnostics…scripture was a living “experiential” thing. Closest thing that might be like it today are the New Age or Charismatic churches.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Buddhism often has the same claim…that it is a ethic of life and not a religion, and thus one can be Buddhist without giving up ones other faiths. Of course that IS a problem when those faiths assert ethos that are in contradiction to Buddhist thought.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Many groups in North Africa were gnostic (indeed St. Augustine was a member of one just prior to coming back into the Orthodox (”correct or True”) and Catholic (”Universal”) faith that was passed on through specialists presumably descended from the original disciples and “authentic” scriptures. Another branch were the followers of Arius who spread his belief-system into the Visigoths, Ostrogoths and other peoples of Central and Eastern Europe (and who spread Westward). After the Feudal leaders of thiese groups converted back into the Orthodox Church, the Arians (not to be confused with the ARYANS) may have spawned groups like the Bogomils, and other heretical sects in Southern France and Germany (like the Wallensians) during the Dark Ages. In fact the First Crusade was an “internal war” against the essentially gnostic Cathari priests in the Pyrenees.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thus the Orthodox church was far more authoritarian and heirarchal, and far less diverse by its very nature. Ritual, scripture and roles were tightly regulated. And they were the ones that sought alliances with leaders like Constantine and became part-and-parcel a parallel state-within-a-state (or beyond the state).&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About half of the early pre-Nicene Christian world were associated with what would be called “gnostic sects” today. They were definitely not hierarchal, or top-down, and that was part of the reason that led to their downfall. They were diverse, often local, and generally disorganized and without established structures. It was passed on through roving “gurus” (although a few early Church Bishops dabbled in the Philosophy). Many gnostic groups, scholars believe, were remarkably sexually egalitarian and even non-age graded. Paryer leaders and those in charge of rituals could rotate between individuals within the group. Although literacy was often important as books could sometimes be read for “secrets” that emerged when read from a gnostic perspective…illiterates also could come to such revelations from examining oral traditions. Thus new works were not anathema to gnostics…scripture was a living “experiential” thing. Closest thing that might be like it today are the New Age or Charismatic churches.</p>
<p>Buddhism often has the same claim…that it is a ethic of life and not a religion, and thus one can be Buddhist without giving up ones other faiths. Of course that IS a problem when those faiths assert ethos that are in contradiction to Buddhist thought.</p>
<p>Many groups in North Africa were gnostic (indeed St. Augustine was a member of one just prior to coming back into the Orthodox (”correct or True”) and Catholic (”Universal”) faith that was passed on through specialists presumably descended from the original disciples and “authentic” scriptures. Another branch were the followers of Arius who spread his belief-system into the Visigoths, Ostrogoths and other peoples of Central and Eastern Europe (and who spread Westward). After the Feudal leaders of thiese groups converted back into the Orthodox Church, the Arians (not to be confused with the ARYANS) may have spawned groups like the Bogomils, and other heretical sects in Southern France and Germany (like the Wallensians) during the Dark Ages. In fact the First Crusade was an “internal war” against the essentially gnostic Cathari priests in the Pyrenees.</p>
<p>Thus the Orthodox church was far more authoritarian and heirarchal, and far less diverse by its very nature. Ritual, scripture and roles were tightly regulated. And they were the ones that sought alliances with leaders like Constantine and became part-and-parcel a parallel state-within-a-state (or beyond the state).</p>
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		<title>By: Laura Doty</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeff-sharlet-the-family-the-secret-fundamentalism-at-the-heart-of-american-power/#comment-1462309</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura Doty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 23:32:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeff-sharlet-the-family-the-secret-fundamentalism-at-the-heart-of-american-power/#comment-1462309</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Kirk, I left details in a fb msg.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kirk, I left details in a fb msg.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk James Murphy, M.D.</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeff-sharlet-the-family-the-secret-fundamentalism-at-the-heart-of-american-power/#comment-1462303</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk James Murphy, M.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 23:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeff-sharlet-the-family-the-secret-fundamentalism-at-the-heart-of-american-power/#comment-1462303</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Wow - thanks, Laura.  That’s a schelp for me, but well worth it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow &#8211; thanks, Laura.  That’s a schelp for me, but well worth it.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura Doty</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeff-sharlet-the-family-the-secret-fundamentalism-at-the-heart-of-american-power/#comment-1462290</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura Doty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 23:19:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeff-sharlet-the-family-the-secret-fundamentalism-at-the-heart-of-american-power/#comment-1462290</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Kirk, if you’re still around.  Ursula LeGuin is going to be making a (very rare) appearance at Rakestraw Books in Danville in June.  (a monday evening).  I wish I could drive down, but it’s too much of a schlep for this working stiff!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kirk, if you’re still around.  Ursula LeGuin is going to be making a (very rare) appearance at Rakestraw Books in Danville in June.  (a monday evening).  I wish I could drive down, but it’s too much of a schlep for this working stiff!</p>
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		<title>By: KayInMaine</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeff-sharlet-the-family-the-secret-fundamentalism-at-the-heart-of-american-power/#comment-1462287</link>
		<dc:creator>KayInMaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 23:19:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeff-sharlet-the-family-the-secret-fundamentalism-at-the-heart-of-american-power/#comment-1462287</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Off topic:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Has everyone seen this little “gem” yet?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjYpkvcmog0&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjYpkvcmog0&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Spit.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Off topic:</p>
<p>Has everyone seen this little “gem” yet?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjYpkvcmog0" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjYpkvcmog0</a></p>
<p>Spit.</p>
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		<title>By: KayInMaine</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeff-sharlet-the-family-the-secret-fundamentalism-at-the-heart-of-american-power/#comment-1462286</link>
		<dc:creator>KayInMaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 23:17:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeff-sharlet-the-family-the-secret-fundamentalism-at-the-heart-of-american-power/#comment-1462286</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yes, and I wished they use &lt;em&gt;that power&lt;/em&gt; too if you know what I mean. ;-) Just kidding. *wink*&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, and I wished they use <em>that power</em> too if you know what I mean. ;-) Just kidding. *wink*</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeff-sharlet-the-family-the-secret-fundamentalism-at-the-heart-of-american-power/#comment-1462280</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 23:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/25/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeff-sharlet-the-family-the-secret-fundamentalism-at-the-heart-of-american-power/#comment-1462280</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Which was, for all practical purposes, a white wash.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The impractical ones too.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Which was, for all practical purposes, a white wash.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The impractical ones too.</p>
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