What happened to Christy?

Morning, EG!

Good morning EG. How are things on the left coast?

Christy’s happening on vacation, due back soon. :)

morning all!

now I gotta get milk for the eg’s homemade cookies, brb

Elliot,
We’re thinking of going to Doylestown today or tomorrow. Word is there are interesting things there to see. Been there?

Egregious, good morning, what is all the flack on Hill’s gaff? Worked late and heard about it on the skews this morning.

Interesting take on it by Juan Cole. Quite different from all of the vapors everyone else is having over it.

Good morning All! I have much to be thankful for this morning. The biggest change I had this year, my granddaughter. I hope that today brings a smile to everyone.

Oh yes!
It’s a really nice area.
You have to go to the Mercer Museum, it’s a fascinating eccentric collection.

# Henry C. Mercer (1856-1930) began construction of the Museum in 1913 with the help of eight day laborers and “Lucy” the horse. The Museum was completed in June of 1916.
# Rising six stories high, the Museum is built entirely of concrete reinforced with iron rods and mesh. Concrete was used because of its plasticity and fireproof properties.
# The estimated weight of The Mercer Museum is 6500 tons, and the cost to build it was $38,944.99.
# Henry C. Mercer, architect and builder of the Museum, believed that the story of human progress and accomplishments was told by the tools and objects that people used.
# More than 60% of the Museum’s 50,000 artifacts, ranging from clock making tools to a conestoga wagon, are exhibited.
# More than 60 Early American trades (including cider making, black-smithing, printing, needlework, shoemaking, and farming) are represented.
# Among the oldest artifacts in the Museum collection are a whale oil lamp over 2,000 years old, and Native American implements dating to 6,000 – 8,000 B.C.
more…

ooo, ooo (waving hand), DH and I went down to that area last fall – go to the Moravian Tileworks and Museum http://www.mptw.go.to/ – it’s truly an amazing place.

That was the plan. It’s my rare weekend off so it feels good to not be doing church and take some time to recharge.

If either you or Elliot wants to meet up with us. . . . . .

PMFJI, but it was a dumb and careless comment IMHO, she’s exhausted, it’s just unfortunate for her. (PS. I’m an Obama supporter.) I wish her apology had sounded a little more sincere.

On the topic: Our 2 kids are in college. I work full-time with my husband and spend the rest of my time cleaning up/adding to our sadly-neglected gardens. Then I’ll move on to the house. I’m trying to figure out what my next mountain is.

That is a good piece.

oo thanks! would love to but am nursing broken toe. :(

Left you a linky to rhubarb recipes downstairs…

Thanks! Some saneness at least somewhere in this mess.

ouch! Take care of it. Get some nice time in the fresh air without having to hike up a mountain or something like that. I trust you have some comfy open air sandals to wear?

are you driving or flying….cost about the same, lol

Yes, Marion – I saw it..and was instantly overwhelmed by the number 738 at the top;)

Juan put it really well. She is exhausted. Keith Olbermann went nuts on it and had a special comment. I think he was really mad when Shuster was suspended, and hasn’t gotten past that.

As for climbing new mountains, That was last year’s task. This year and beyond is more for settling in and going deeper. I haven’t been able to do that for a long time.

One hour drive, about 4 gallons RT. At least this week it’s cheaper to drive.

yes, Roman’s that are perfect for the sole role, thank you. But this morning I ran out of new-fangled tape for the buddy-toe-taping treatment (which actually helps!) so am figuratively and very literally stuck with that gunky white adhesive tape.
*crab fuss*

I think Keith went a little over the top last night myself. Booman also did quite the step by step analysis of it all. She’s fatigued. We’re fatigued. Let’s just have it over with already. That’s where I’m at.

YMMV.

I bid you al adieu for a lovely day. Sun is shining. Temp is going to be just right. Time to get away from the laptop and breathe some fresh air.

Have a great one everyone!

Thanks for the link to Juan Cole. While he make a case, he doesn’t persuade me.

Because this wasn’t an event, this “misspeak,” it was part of an ongoing pattern. Maybe an unintended pattern but a pattern nonetheless. [no, I don’t believe it was unintended, just sayin’…]

And here’s where reading people’s faces and body language comes in to play. What Cole and some others have called a stunned reaction, seemed to me a clinical rote I’m sorry if the Kennedys were offended kind of response.
And yes, I know my own bias, I want to give anyone the benefit of the doubt, but it’s that ol’ preponderance thingie….

If you listen to the soundbite, it is clear that she was simply saying that other candidates have continued campaigning in to June.

Unfortunately, we’re living in an era of “I’ll tell you what you meant, thank you!”, which of course Repubs started with their faux outrage over Gore’s Internet comment. Sorry to see Democrats pick up the tactic.

Having said that, what I found distasteful about what she said was that she invoked RKF’s death the very week Ted Kennedy was given devastating news. I think her comment was insensitive to the Kennedy family.

OMG, you MUST go watch the YouTube Matt Stoller posted at the new ACLU blog.

Good Morning Egregious and Firedogs -

this is a good ‘un eg – let me get through this first cup . . .

RevDeb – saw your KO comment last night, kinda reassuring as I thought it a comment too far as well

Mornin’, eg — I’ll have a couple of your best oatmeal raisin cookies…do they come with maple frosting? Scrambling to tie up loose ends for holiday weekend so I barely have time to nuke the usual oatmeal.

Hmmm, let’s see…next mountain to climb? Well, we’re still in the midst of the current ‘mountains’ – finishing up the work on the house, a wedding this summer which will be in Scotland(the inlaws are UK and my daughter is emigrating), my son’s final year in college. Should be enough, though I also started commuting to work on a regular basis on my bike and did a 25 mile ride at the end of April(the goal was to finish standing up). I’m hoping to be able to expand my riding and get my DH to commute to his work as well(he’s about 5 miles beyond where I work; he’s still trying to figure out the whole ‘bring the clothes to work’ thing). Oh yes, AND elect more and better Democrats this November and…(ahem) world peace.

i completely agree with cole. but i was already being way too contrary yesterday and didn’t have it in me to jump into that one too.

elliot at 24-”But this morning I ran out of new-fangled tape for the buddy-toe-taping treatment (which actually helps!) so am figuratively and very literally stuck with that gunky white adhesive tape.
*crab fuss*”

elliot, you can use masking/painter’s tape IF you put a thin layer of gauze or tp or paper towel under it around the toes……so the pressure of the toes moving is spread evenly, the tape won’t ’rip’ like it will if you just use it to tape the toes without anything under it…so, think of something thin to go under it or won’t be comfy……..i even used saran wrap once, but it’s hot..

if you’re on it a lot, might have to replace it later on today, but it’s better than dealing with the ’yuck’ tape……

Take a stroll over to HuffPo and get a look at the headliner. If I didn’t know better, I’d think it a right-wing site.

This, from people who otherwise are insisting it’s Hillary harming the Democratic party while also insisting she and her supporters must come around and back Obama!

Unbelievable.

I always wonder what horrible picture of Clinton I will see when I click on Huffpo.

You are unbelievable, the woman is a fucking scumbag. Is that over the top enough?

ah, I see we’ve switched over to “The Hillary Hate Hour” – I’ll show myself out, thanks.

Well, you know, I think we’re all settling into our own biases/preferences right now…and seems to me that’s been the inherent danger of the neverending primary season. The healing/uniting is overdue already, and the repetition now of the RFK reference wasn’t helpful.

This isn’t a partisan issue…this isn’t just angry Obama supporters reacting. I’ve seen reports from every quarter, including latenight on a CNN crawl that behind the scenes supporters of Clinton are trying to find a graceful way for her to save face while exiting.

There is no graceful way out of this. At the very least, what kind of judgment does it demonstrate that there’s loss of control to the extent fatigue makes you misspeak. And I’m being generous with that observation.

Because this isn’t the first time she’s said it. That’s why this time it’s so incendiary. Tipping point, boiling point, whatever you want to call it.

CNN’s got a report on now about it, too.

Fear not — I’m sure you can sort for what you might want!

His rhetoric is a little over the top sometimes.

Though it does seem the Hillary has made very similar comments at other times, so it was a bit more than a simple mis-speak.

and elliot–black electrical tape works great too, because your toes sweat, it won’t stick later, easy off…cut the little strips lengthwise to make them more narrow and will wrap around the contours of your toes better/tight so it won’t slide off…..the tape will stick to itself to hold it on cuz of the shape of your toe, hold the ends and ’stretch’ it around the toes…..but won’t stick to your skin later…..cuz it doesn’t like moisture…….but the masking tape thing is easier…..

CRAP!!! just remembered…….USE BANDAIDS!!!!! they stretch……and wrap…….

bless you dmac! I hadn’t considered that. Gauze I have.

just wish I didn’t have to go to the basement to get the tape. I don’t like it down there. But, to tell the truth, facing the basement is the incline I must face (or decline, as it were)

Toby! don’t go, this is the Pull Up a Chair thread, not the Pie Fight thread.

lol.

I don’t like it down there.

From the depths…

Anybody got coffee?

I know longer watch any of the MSM. They are not to be trusted at all.

I watch c-span and the News Hour. That’s it.

As usual, the very Democrats who insist we must have party unity are the first to condemn a party member rather than rallying around her. Some unity.

It would seem that party unity is a one-way street and really means Obama unity.

I know what she meant. I’m sorry to see so many Democrats behaving like Republicans normally do and trying to capitalize on this politically for Obama’s sake. I also find a lot of irony in that since Obama is supposedly about NOT behaving in such ways.

There were all kinds of excusing Wright and his venality on this site, not the least of the defenses was that what he was saying was true (really? the US gov’t. created AIDS to kill black people?). Well, what Hillary said is true also, that other primary campaigns have gone into June. But in that case, she invoked an ugliness (I don’t think she should have or had to, but I don’t think it’s the egregious thing people are trying to make it out to be), but in her case, ugly truths are greeted with disproportionate outrage rather than a party rallying behind this former First Lady.

If you want her to exit gracefully and by saving face, that sort of thing normally falls on the other party to make happen.

I don’t see Obama or his supporters doing so. You can’t say someone needs to leave with dignity while attacking her dignity.

Good Morning…… What am I going to do this weekend…..I am going to head upstairs and take up where I was so rudely interrupted my remodel of the three upstairs bedrooms and bath after the kids moved out last August…..I was going gangbusters….. patching all the walls, painting, putting in laminate flooring and then…… emergency surgery last October…..

Besides it is a rainy cold day in Phoenix…… its 53 right now brrrrr

and if you haven’t heard….. McBush can’t pull in enough deep pockets in Phoenix and was afraid of a bunch of raging grannies protesting…
Poor ticket sales, expected protests scuttle Bush-McCain fundraiser at Phoenix Convention Center

Insert laughter here ->

egregious says–Anybody got coffee?

here ’grege–dawn chorus’ guatemalan vienna roast/triple seal-organic shade-grown fair trade…..a guy here imports it, takes the beans to get roasted and is the steward of the company.
yummy stuff.

dmac, thank you most kindly.

elliot–if you don’t want to go to the basement, just use gauze under the ’yucky’ tape…..will work…..it’s just that masking tape is easier to work with with the gauze and stuff.

What is different in 2008 from earlier times is the immediacy of media scrutiny (when the left-dominated/right-wing tool/you choose media bother to scrutinize at all). Even Boy Wonder has discovered occasionally that there are no do-overs. Card laid is card played. Perception is reality, blah blah blah. And that’s where the trouble arises. Because there is such differing perception about off-the-cuff comments. That must surely be the reason for so few Bush press conferences and at least part of the reason for his tightly controlled public appearances. Last night, I was so exercised about HRC’s gaffe, I posted a seriously snide piece on my blog. This morning, particularly after reading these comments, I took the post down. I am having one heckuva time finding the balance between speaking my personal truth (I have a growing aversion to HRC and I have not always felt that way) and being a kind and reasonable pup. I get that the candidates are totally exhausted. I try to cut slack, at least some of the time. The POTUS must be exhausted sometimes, too. Even Boy Wonder. The Republicans will not cut Dems any slack at all. Neither will the press. So now what?

Making some fresh now…

Hey Twisted, what’s new?

Besides the coffee I mean.

it’s a beautiful morning here. i think i’d like to pull weeds. we’re expecting rain i think this afternoon, but tomorrow is supposed to be spectacular – 75F and clear skies.

Twisted, isn’t it your birthday soon?

Gee katymine, for a measly $25,000 you would be able to tell George/John what you think of them. *g*

There is a plague of intellectual dishonesty as well.

and who’ll win the 500?

What does this mean? I am not being contentious. I don’t understand.

How deep is the snow up there?

It must of rained again last night and heavy clouds this am….

Cool and clear here in California, but tomorrow I’m more interested in east coast weather. First trip back since the end of January. I probably will need a new diary just for the next week.

Don’t worry, there’s wifi there, will still be around the Lake!

Interesting take on it by Juan Cole. Quite different from all of the vapors everyone else is having over it.

Per Juan Cole:

In evoking the tumultuous year of 1968, Clinton was trying to remind people of the long and divisive Democratic primary.

That race lasted less than three months for Kennedy. What was his particular relevance to her staying in the race, if not the possibility of a candidate being assassinated?

welcome ’grege–here’s some of dawn chorus’ guatemalan DECAF french roast for those who are a little more high-wired naturally……..

and turkish roast with cardomom for those that need a little creative zip.

and to comment on your topic==a few years back, i was looking at a little watercolor that a friend gave me/ made of a simple mountain range with sun, etc…..i realized that when i looked at mountains in the distance pictures that i always looked at it like it was still to be conquered, and sometimes that would help me feel invigorated and other times overloaded, like-can i make it that far again? this time, i was looking at the mountains as if i had just come over them….a known entity…i now look at those horizon mountain pictures like that, like i am giving them a backward glance as i move on to the next thing. that the hard part is not ahead of me, but behind me.

Alright. We Obama supporters apologize to the Kennedy family for anything Obama may have said which offended or endangered Hillary Clinton. It was due to the fact that he is fatigued with the primary which he is dragging out to the point of defeating the chances of the eventual nominee.

I was just talking to my wife about a friend who wanted to make a film. He had never made one, but he had a good idea. He borrowed a lot of money (by my standards, not by movie making standards) and made a documentary film called “Klunkerz,” about the crazy bicycling hippies in California who came up with the rather successful idea of mountain biking.

He’s a long way from making his money back, but his film is getting universally good reviews.

My hat is off to a guy with that kind of guts.

Speaking as a former Clinton supporter and one who has argued her right to stay in the race as long as she wishes, I have to say, without reservation, Get out of the race Hillary. You have jumped a shark this time and though I have been on Obama’s side since Texas, I have ever always said that you should be allowed to run as long as you wish. Now though, you have allowed your thinly disguised GOP operatives like McCauliffe, Penn and Carville to turn you into a venomous, petty figure who will say anything, tell any lie, bring up any subject to cling to the wreckage of your campaign. Do yourself and the women in the United States a favor and get out now. It may already be too late to ever harbor hopes of ever seriously running for president again but if you keep running that mouth of yours, it definitely will be. Don’t set back womens’ progress by seeming hysterical which is, I’m sorry to say, EXACTLY how you are coming off right now. The best way that you can show the party that you truly want to see a Democrat in the White House is to apologize and work your ass off to get Obama elected. Americans despise the GOP and they are running an extraordinarilly weak candidate and you seem bent on handing them the contest before the general even starts.

That being said: Olberman’s special comment last night was spot on indeed but his rhetoric has gotten so bad that I find it hard to believe that he is anything more than just another GOP shill in the media. Perhaps he doesn’t think the Democrats need the 16 million or so voters who have cast a ballot for Clinton. For myself, I’ve never been so rabid that I would refuse to support the nominee whomever that turned out to be but we are going to need each and every vote come November and while Clinton’s divisive rhetoric isn’t helping, Olberman’s is throwing gasoline on the fire. It’s time for Clinton to get the fuck out and for Olberman et al to shut the fuck up. Wanna sling anger at somebody who can truly end this campaign and end it now? Vent your spleen at the superdelegates. They and only they are capable of ending this immediately.

My preparation for trips to Russia included imagining myself at the base of a mountain, staring up, contemplating what it would take to get up there. It took a long time for some of those trips.

I don’t know about Flagstaff but here on the rez nothing. Frost last night and it was rain, snow, and hail yesterday.

Repack that’s a cool story. I think Phoenix Woman has a few things to say about biking later this morning, will you mention this in her thread as well?

Thanks, just added it to my netflix queue.

What is the next mountain you are thinking about climbing?

gonna send a local kid to congress !

been a long time since I’ve worked on a campaign – what a difference with the toobz and cell phones – am so very grateful for all I’ve have learned here (((esp rayne, redshift, and my big bro Pach))-they think I know what I’m doing bec I can parse numbers – lol

he is a sincere, compassionate smart guy. more moderate than progressive so just to be on the safe side we have daily aversion therapy sessions where I show him pictures of Rahm and Steny :D

ps – I may get a trip to Denver outta this – crosses fingers, stroking magic blogging dragon

cbl, thanks for hosting last night, and I’m very glad to hear you’re going to work on a campaign there. Lucky guy to have you!

Seeya in Denver :)

of course we are rooting for Danica ! . . .but the resident gearhead sage says no

This is so interesting. Had to leave for a while to make breakfast for David. I totally appreciate that there is a mighty effort here to keep us focused on Things Other Than Hillary. I love you, FDL. I really do.

Toodles.

have a family preference for Penske, but I’d be happy for a Danica win :)

’grege at 68–well, don’t forget to look back at the mountain as if you just came over it, too……was a big insight that day. was a weird relief…..that i don’t always have to be getting ready to go over the mountain, i already came over it……just had to worry about crossing swollen rivers ahead on the plains after that. lol…..

til the next mountain.

Why don’t you read my original post on this topic before jumping on me with your usual snide sarcasm.

Thinking of how to get the MSM to turn McBush’s attack on Obama for not wearing uniform back on on bush, Cheney, & the rest of the chickenhawks.

She also referenced her husband’s primary race. Her point was that other primary campaigns have gone into June.

It’s that simple.

Do you also think Gore said he invented the Internet and that Obama’s wearing a turban makes him a Muslim terrorist?

Good grief. This country has gone crazy.

Was anyone here last night when the server switch happened?

No, no, I was agreeing with you and commenting on the trend of people deliberately “believing” the worst possible scenario about something someone has said rather than extending the benefit of the doubt and believing a person’s clarification, explanation, or even accepting an apology.

Primary notes:
— Obama needs 56 more delegates to reach 2025 (Dkos).
— Clinton needs 246 (Dkos), so if Obama gets 49 more, she cannot reach 2025.
— There are 294 uncommitted delegates (Dkos).
— On June 1 and June 3, primaries in PR, SD, and MT will allocate most of their 110 delegates. (NYT)

1,851 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen egregious and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

Are we gunna get a front page posting on Hillary’s Kamikaze statement yesterday? With every thing that was happening from Patorgate to Lou Dobbs psychotic blowout to McCrazy’s pseudo release of his medical records nothing was more explosive than the Kennedy assassination statement and the Olbermann take down puttin’ it in context of all the other “illiberalities” Mrs. Bill has been takin’ since February. All the former have been covered by front page posts here but where in the world is a post about the “assassination” argument as a reason for her stayin in the race??!!

I can’t believe that FDL would be hiding from this issue…wazup with it??

KEEP THE FAITH AND WATCH OUT FOR FALLIN’ WINGNUTS!!

are there any veterans here from the 04 toobz wars – a la Grandma J ?

would be interesting to read some of those posts. possibly give us all a bit of perspective.

can you imagine being online to see what MSM did to Dean then ???

I was… we were chatting on a ES post and around 10:30 pm the message popped up to try back later….. figured it was a message to go to bed..

Re. Hillary, it reminds me of my second-favorite movie line. It’s the very first line of The Wild Bunch : ” I know what you meant to do, it’s what you did that I don’t like!”

(My favorite line is of course “Here come those tired old tits again” from Sunday Bloody Sunday .)

eg – mister cbls says site was down for just under an hour -

1,851 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Margaret and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

Beautiful post Sister Margaret, and especially heartfelt I am sure but there is somethin’ else about the suicide attack Mrs. Bill made and that is it helped bury Obama’s incredible speech to the Cuban-Americans down in the swamps of Florida. I encourage all to get a look at the speech on U-Tube if ya ken find it.

KEEP THE FAITH AND REMEMBER THERE ARE MORE OF US THAN THERE ARE OF THEM!!

I read everything you had to say today on FDL. Was there something in my apology which misrepresented events? I was just trying to resolve the off topic discussion and let get back to the subject of the post.

Yeah that seemed like a message from the universe to get some sleep.

I imagine we’ll still see the occasional glitch today, but it did seem to go smoothly.

Btw, I figure if RFK, Jr., can grasp what Clinton said and knows it was simply about primaries going into June, then I can get it.

I responded to you and poof I was getting mySQL errors … anyone else get that?

It’s chicken shit that’s what it is.

Jerry Brown, however, began to run a surprising insurgent campaign, particularly through use of a 1-800 number to receive grassroots funding. Brown scored surprising wins in Connecticut and Colorado and seemed poised to overtake Clinton but a well-publicized misstep involving Brown’s Vice-presidential advances towards Rev. Jesse Jackson, apparently unaware of Jackson’s complicated relationship with Jewish-Americans, set Brown back and Clinton effectively won the Democratic Party’s nomination after winning the New York Primary in early April.

That’s from the Wikipedia entry on the 1992 presidential campaign.

Good Moring Pups, Margaret,

Thank you for your post. You were spot on. And KO was over the top last night. I had such a sick feeling in my stomach when I heard Hillary make those statements. But what really bothered me was her apology. If you noticed, she couldn’t even look anyone in the eye and that happens more often than not when she is talking to reporters or having to make a quasy(sp) apology for some other gaffe.

Coffee and Cheerios anybody? LOL

Yes it was squiggly for a couple minutes, seems ok now.

It’s just like when people do this bullshit about “Nixon’s War” because they don’t want to face the fact that Democrats got us in it.

eg, I don’t know where you are, but I have rain outside in Los Angeles.
There was snow falling yesterday above 5000 feet in the mountains, too. Last weekend it was in the high 90s outside. Go figure.

Is this a normal fluctuation?

Warning: mysql_affected_rows(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL-Link resource in /var/www/firedoglake.com/wp-content/db.php on line 430
No WPMU site defined on this host. If you are the owner of this site, please check Debugging WPMU for further assistance.

Because I am addicted to FDL, I came back again and the above is the error message I received. I thought it was a message to go to my room until I could behave myself. “g”

But Nixon campaigned in 1968 on ending it, and he didn’t.

She would have been much better off not making those remarks, especially while in front of a reporter.
People go back and check things: Bill had his nomination wrapped up in April.
And as someone who’s spent most of my life in CA, and was almost voting age in CA in 1968, I was ticked at her comment. It was, at the least, tasteless.

I thought I’d been knocked off for being an irritated Clinton supporter.

RFK, Jr., isn’t bothered by it. People need to chill out.

Yes. He claimed that he had a secret plan to end the war. But in an interview after Nixon resigned, David Frost asked him if he really had a plan, and Nixon replied (in effect), “No, that just one of those things you say during a campaign.”

think it was more the whole “Law and Order” meme that won it for him -

silent majority was pretty silent until My Lai

anyone reading Perlstein’s Nixonland ??? what does the wonky hotness say ?

LOL. Quite the pair, eh?

I believe K.O. has been over the top for a while now.

And I don’t believe Sen. Clinton is consiously waiting around for some tragedy to befall Obama.

The first thing I thought when MSNBC was covering this story last night was “why is this woman still talking to editorial boards?”

After Indiana and North Carolina, I was fine with her staying in the race until all the states finished on June 3. But I thought she would go quietly and gracefully. Then came her “white people” comments, then came her rantings in Florida this week, and now comes yesterday’s gaffe.

Her loyalists and sycophants are not doing her any favors. She is damaging herself and her historical legacy. I hope after yesterday she takes a good long look in the mirror and rethinks what she’s doing.

It’s almost over. Please mother/father God, let her lay low until June 3.

I was addressing her including her husband in her comment, meaning she was not trying to invoke anything by bringing up the assassination.

And the key word in your post is ‘effectively’.

Think she could move up and play with the big boys in Formula One?

Norske, check out Pete Pierce on Schecter’s RFK comments last night. The
backroom politics here are explained very well there.

No one is being kicked off, everyone gets their say.

fairly obvious RFK Jr has a deal with Clintonia to run for the NY seat should it be vacated – wasn’t a bad deal to make 12 months ago . . .

Lessee … The year I graduated from 8th grade – 1964, actually; I’m old enough to remember the 1960 election – we had to practice for it inside because it rained for a couple of days.
My father and some buddies went up to the mountains another year for the opening of trout season (old Memorial Day), and had to leave early because of snow.
Yes, not common but happens. I’d say at least once a decade.

Charming.

Wow.

Now THAT’S gross.

If LibertyLee didn’t get kicked off, I think Juno is probably safe.

I posted about 5:05 this morning and my post never showed up. Maybe it was a sign I should go back to lurking. Otherwise the overhaul seems to be working fine.
Karen

Meanwhile, we’ll just brush over Obama’s “sweetie” comment, his 20 year very personal relationship with a racist, divisive, nutty pastor, his “You’re likeable enough” comment, we”ll understand what Michelle meant with her “proud” comments…

And I do, but I’m I’m just noting the double standards.

Olbermann spoke for me on HRC’s hateful, evil comments.

Having revealed that particularly hateful side of her, I can’t believe ANYONE is ready to cut her any more slack.

Juno, Hillary’s comments in Florida were divisive IMO. Hillary agreed to the primary rules and she is only trying to change them because she is behind. Yesterdays comments only added fuel to the fire for some Obama supporters. I agree with Juan Cole’s opinion which was linked to earlier. Read Juan’s entire comment.

I think Juno was being funny. And here’s an excellent, real-time example of how the exact same words can be internalized different ways. She and I are 180 degrees apart in candidate preference, but I do admire her tenacity. I think I’d have bolted by now. Juno, if you’re a GOP plant, may the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dwelling, because I think I just defended you.

I feel the sameway. I have watched her this whole campaign, what started me on a reversal course not supporting her wash the tears and playing the victim every chance she gets. her is sexism, always has been. But she is using that also as an excuse of why Obama is leading. The other part of all of this is, IF she has such great support, than she should not be in DEBT. Her supporters, all those white working people that support her should be giving her $25.00 per person, maybe then she wouldn’t be in debt. There is some realy disparity here.

be still my beating heart . . .

Mr. Cbl here,

The money is likely to never be there for her. F1, last I checked was about 500 mil a year per car without the engine program. For a team to put that on the line for an effectively unproven driver and, sadly to say, a woman, seems unlikely at this point.

It was sort of a joke and in response to Barbara’s funny post about taking those kinds of messages personally.

Having said that, despite having been a long-time poster who never used vulgar language, never attacked anyone personally, had a reputation in fact as being one of the more civl and fair-minded posters at HuffPo for three years, I was banned, after HuffPo went on Obama steroids, (just look at what that site has become!) for posting that, if people wanted actual serious news they go to FDL or Kos on a headline thread about Mark Penn diminishing his demotion in Hillary’s campaign, because honestly, I do not think Mark Penn diminishing his demotion is headline news.

I kid you not. That got me banned.

Whoo HOO, Margaret! Amen, sister.

I voted for Clinton in Califonia, but she lost me with Bosnia.

Olbermann did but RFK, Jr., did not???

That’s rather interesting.

CNN is telling people (just now) that they should NOT trade in their trucks and SUV’s for smaller cars. They say the consumer should “wait it out” a few months to see “what happens”.

Because it is SO very likely that gas prices will fall and those gas guzzlers will again seem like a good idea?!?!

Bastards.

I did, and I agree with him.

I, like Cole, know what she was saying, and it was not inflammatory, but Obamns, like republicans, are trying to make it so.

I thought they were opposed to those “politics as usual”?

I’m simply noting how Obama is excused all of his comments and behavior that could be just as equally considered offensive or inflammatory or whatever. There is a real double standard.

Look, if RKF’s son can keep what she said in perspective, I can too.

But I do find it ironic that it’s Obama who is using this politically. They just pound away at Hillary. Obamans behaving unObaman!

And these, folks, are what Juno considers a sufficient basis for undermining the Democratic Party and improving the chances of a McCain presidency. But, McCain has crossed the threshold and has a lifetime of experience, whereas the likely Democratic candidate has a speech.

Whatever you think of Jeremiah Wright’s comments, Obama did not cite him as a political ally in the fashion that the GOP has enlisted any number of offensive preachers.

Jeremiah Wright served six years with distinction in the US Marine Corps, including serving at the side of President Johnson. His patriotism has been proven and is beyond criticism.

He can say any damn thing he cares to, not only because he has a First Amendment right, but also because he cannot be accused of hating the country he served so well.

What did YOU do in the name of patriotism?

The thing that struck me about KO last night was that it seemed like he was acting. When he’s really pissed about something it seems much more genuine.

I’m not brushing over anything. Over the course of a six month campaign, politicians are going to say stupid things – all politicians.

My problem with Sen. Clinton, now, is that once it became mathmatically impossible for her to win the nomination, she should stop campaigning. It’s over for her. She needs to exit the stage. She is starting to look pathetic. And the people who love her need to give her that information.

Sorry, don’t buy it.

Juno, My 2 cents: I said last night, and I still agree with myself and you, that I certainly do not think she was trying to imply or channel some danger to Obama. The context of the remark made sense to me. I was shocked when I heard the calm voice of Daniel Schorr this morning take the more horrifying position. Might as well disagree; I just do not hear in her words a hope or anticipation about something happening to Obama. I heard an analysis of previous time lines. I know: Enough said already.

I doubt it could happen in the next couple of years, but if Danika shows that she’s capable of winning or being close on a consistent basis F1 just might take a look at her. As Judy Tanuta always said, “It could happen.” I’d love to see a female driver in F1. And more in Indy cars for that matter. I’ve always been amused when F1 drivers and NASCAR drivers switch for a lap or two. F1 driver is bored, NASCAR driver rarely gets up to speed. Gotta be those right hand turns.

Well, McCain served too and in fact was a POW.

I guess that means we can’t criticize him in any way.

And my position on Wright isn’t about anything Wright said. HE’s not running for office.

My position on the Wright thing is 1) the hypocrisy of Democrats on the issue of the whole pastor issue; 2) Obama’s disingenuous claims about not being politically expedient.

and cripes, what did I do in the name of patriotism??? That sounds like something a Repub would say. Ollie North served too. So did Tim McVeigh.

First and foremost I want to offer encouragement to the staff of FDL. Keeping the information separate from the slew of passionate opinions is a very dicey task. I do not believe you are alone in the process of trying to provide a forum for both. Some of the RSS feeds I read have allowed dissention to turn into the very division we are trying to mend in this country. Some are encouraging it in the spirit of becoming “important”. I wish for you to find the very edgy middle and hope that you will continue to provide information sorely needed in a time of spin and try hard not to fall off the very narrow wire that provides balance.
Thank you for trying to do that.

I know what you mean. The last two rants were I though over the top. As much as I dislike Bush, I thought his rant on what Bush said in Isreal was even more so. I think he needs a couple of days off. Does anybody really think HE (KO) is really a shrill for the Repugs?

Going to throw my two cents into this discussion and hopefully leave it alone…

I was an Edwards supporter since 2003 so he was my guy…. worked for his campaign here in AZ…. so when he dropped out I was standing around with no candidate…. with my demographics I should of move right over to HRC BUT I am the former chair of my DFA group, taught language framing classes from info provided by Jeffery Feldman….. I believe that Democrats should be true blue Dems and NOT embrace Repug/wingnut language, ideas AND their media…

That is what moved me to Obama….. If you go through that list that KO said that we forgave HRC … many of them were those very wingnut things. My goal as a DFA member is to get more and BETTER Democrats elected…. NOT Repug look alikes….

We have forgiven you the photos of Osama Bin Laden in an anti-Obama ad…

We have forgiven you fawning over the fairness of Fox News while they were still calling you a murderer.

We have forgiven you accepting Richard Mellon Scaife’s endorsement and then laughing as you described his “deathbed conversion.”

We have forgiven you quoting the electoral predictions of Boss Karl Rove.

We have forgiven you the 3 A-M Phone Call commercial.

We have forgiven you **President** Clinton’s disparaging comparison of the Obama candidacy to Jesse Jackson’s.

We have forgiven you Geraldine Ferraro’s national radio interview suggesting Obama would not still be in the race had he been a white man.

Those were my turning point…. end of subject.

Any ‘elder’ rockers out there who ever danced the night away to the sounds of Larry Raspberry and the Highsteppers?

There was just an article in the paper that dealers can’t sell the trucks and SUV’s that have been traded in. Some have sat since last summer. Sounds to me like the car companies are trying to slow the sale of the smaller cars they don’t make. They pay big bucks to CNN for advertising. Fuck ‘em. They created the market for the gas guzzlers let ‘em suffer the consequences.

no, but it sounds like fun!

Juno, When you read Cole’s analysis did you also read his opinion about Barack being a Muslim and how he personally found that far more offensive. In Florida Hillary brought up elections in Zimbabwe to make a comparison to our primary. Her rantings in FL caused me to believe that she wants to run in 2012 and only can do that if McCain wins. It’s the totality of her actions that turned me off.

While I wasn’t crazy about (and didn’t vote for) either Clinton or Obama, I’m much more impressed by him, now, that I am with her. She isn’t a graceful loser, either.

and now for something we can all agree on; teh cute

shoplifting birdie

sorry eg – couldn’t resist once I saw it

That is all she was saying.

I think it is unfortunate that the Obama campaign’s response was to say it was an unfortunate thing rather than being an example of what they CLAIM they want, unity, honesty, not politics as usual, etc., and saying what RFK, Jr., said, that she was simply referring to a timeline.

No, politics as usual continues.

And if Obama has it wrapped up, he and his supporters need to stop with the Hillary-as-enemy thing. They’ve behaving like Rove and his, I don’t want to just defeat them, I want to leave them bloodied.”

How does this behavior assist their supposed desire to unify the party?

Yes, she is. Repubs also insisted Gore wasn’t a graceful loser when in fact he showed tremendous grace in the face of a difficult loss.

Clinton has as well.

It’s Obamans, IMO, who are being ugly winners.

Hillary has only two chances:
— She might be able to talk people into changing the rule in her favor late in the game.
— Some misfortune might befall her opponent.
When she cited Bobby Kennedy’s assassination, she was expressing puzzlement as to why people were pushing her to drop out. There was no particular relevance to the fact that in olden times ran through June. Primaries are earlier now. What was relevant was the fact that misfortune can always befall one’s opponent, and she (somewhat tastelessly) cited a perfectly relevant precedent. And it’s not the first time. And it reveals something about how she thinks and operates.

Beautiful morning here in Northern New Mexico. have had an unusual spell of rainy weather for the past three days.

Unusual in that May is part of the early dry season, mid-April thru June. The summer thunderstorm season is July and August, then rain becomes rare from September through October, then the, hopefully, winter storm cycle begins.

Everyone in these parts has been commenting on the very windy spring, seems like we have high wind warnings twice a week or so. Makes me wonder about global climate change and if increasing windiness is a possible barometer of that phenomena.

I also thought that Olbermann was over the top last night in his special comment about Clinton/RFK, Obama is my candidate but I think Clinton made a fatigue induced gaffe, nothing to get one’s undies in a twist over.

Juno, if Hillary runs as an independent this year against Obama and McCain, would you vote for her?

No BUSH created the market. Remember his telling everybody, when he was toting his tax breaks that there was a deduction for companies that can buy big SUVs for 75,000 can deduct it from their tax returns. Drive BIG.

I don’t get your reaction to Obama. It was an unfortunate remark in that, obviously, it could be misinterpreted, raised the sceptre of that tragic episode. I am not suspicious of her intent; I do think the language/example was “unfortunate” and Obama used a mild and proper word for description. What’s wrong with that?

BTW if you didn’t hear a member of my DFA group won his race to the Tempe AZ City Counsel….
Tempe voters elect Woods

Woods is the first African-American elected to the council in the city’s 114-year history. Currently, of Tempe’s population of about 159,000, less than 4 percent are black.

“I didn’t run as an African-American candidate; I ran as a candidate who happened to be African-American,” Woods said.

But the significance wasn’t lost on Woods. Breaking that barrier, he said, meant others could follow his lead.

(ahem) So, about preparing for mountains. Several years ago, David and I decided to backpack in the Colorado Rockies. Up to Comanche Peak (somewhere over 13,000 feet). Flatlanders have a real challenge when it comes to training for high elevations. Minnesota’s highest “peak” is Eagle Mountain (2,301 feet). Been there done that, but no help for Colorado.

I trained like a crazy thing. Walked miles. Added books to my backpack until it weighed 70 pounds. I was so ready! David was training for another marathon, so he was in top condition. Didn’t want to humiliate him (or myself).

Base camp was about 7,000 feet. Our group had only an overnight to acclimate. Part way up the first rise the next morning (with base camp still in view), I thought I was going to collapse and maybe die. Long, involved story, but I eventually made it to the top. Saw places that cannot be accessed any other way. Unbelievable sunsets. Critters a-plenty. Wildflowers in profusion. Simply amazing. Breath-taking, one might say.

I had the advantage when we descended, because I had good knees. Found that part simple.

I think there’s a metaphor in here somewhere, but will invite you to interpret me to myself. Or not.

She’s also being dishonest about citing previous primary campaigns extending into June. She knows very well the ‘92 primaries didn’t start until mid-Feb. and the ‘68 primaries didn’t start until March.

What does she want at this stage of the process? I don’t get it. The only thing I can come up with is that she’s delusional.

That kind of behavior, in a nutshell, is why I no longer go to HuffPo or Kos.

If Danica is behind as they enter the last turn, she should just pull off the track.

Here’s an image that captures the current situation perfectly.

Loo …
What do you think was behind “the acting”?
If I recall, the last time he was so over the top was the primary coverage and then he took a night off. Could be coincidence, of course, and I do love Rachel, who sub hosted for him.
Your thoughts?

Come on Juno. You’re really trying to widen the fracture in the Democratic Party. Anyone who didn’t despise Hillary, as a result of her own actions, will after reading your representations.

I recommend you Drag your big ass on down

Thank you wrensis. We try.

It was. LR&THS were a good bar band who visited frequently the NW isolated community where I went to college.

One of their songs was called “Jive Ass” which never failed to get the crowd moving.

It was political.

Again, if RFK’s own son can not take offense, (he didn’t call it a gaffe or unfortunate), then I think the rest of us can.

It reminds me of (BO – Before Obama) when Democrats said of Hillary, if she can forgive her husband, so can I.

This is just another example of political opponents trying to exploit an opportunity. But it’s particularly disingenuous when Obamans do it.

Oh, and the idea that FDL is “afraid” to post something? Delusional.

Wow, I’d love to….the very pics are a joy.

No.

HuffPo has gone screaming down hill and is just an ugly.

Odd thing considering it’s Obama Central. You’d think it’d be vying with Disneyland for Happiest Place on Earth!

Is that all Obama said? That it was an unfortunate thing to say?

I think she said what she did for pretty much the same reason you do… …but it was still an unfortunate thing to say. He must have slammed her pretty hard for the reaction I am seeing..

In your own mind, I know you believe. I also think that you do not entertain another’s point of view. There are nuances that do matter.

Oops…an ugly cesspool of anti-Hillary filth.

Juno: why do they NEED to exploit anything? They’ve won. It’s over. All they need to do now is quietly wait for her to leave the stage.

Well, considering I’m in line with RFK, Jr.’s take on what she said…

Right!

So why don’t they?

Ugly, graceless winners. Ironic, huh?

drug it around and back a couple of times ;) thanks for the memories

lol, yeah, a picture is worth a thousand words.

Never heard of those guys, but I have roadied since 1968 for a San Francisco rock band, missed only four shows in 40 years. I’ve seen Janis Joplin naked and smoked a joint with Jerry Garcia.

Does that make me an “elder rocker?”

what is ugly and graceless about what they said?

Hilarious!

Jonathan Shopliftington Seagull?

She’s already lost.
Where’s that grace?

I have a friend who keeps saying, ‘well, she has to let her supporters down gently.’ I keep wanting to know why she didn’t start that process a month ago, when it became clear that she wasn’t going to win.
Can you answer that (preferably without dissing Obama and his supporters)?

works for me

Juno, I have hit my head against your wall for about the 4th time; shame on me, as they say. I forgot again that you are always right ;) Thanks for the adamant reminder. Surely, I will not forget again.

Too cute!

And I’m not Juno. And neither are any number of other African-Americans. I’d love to have a dime for the number of my friends who’ve said “Well of course they’re going to kill him. This country isn’t going to allow a black man to become President.” Hillary’s “gaffe” only serves to stoke such fears.

How fortunate for all of us that Obama has caused so many to come around to the Republican view of the Clintons!

Ironic,huh?

If she’s alreayd lost, why are Obamans so angry and hysterical?

Ignore her. Obama is.

I roadied in the ’70s and early ’80s in the bay area. It was a wild scene back then.

Mr. Cbl

And can you please tell me why she is still talking to editorial boards?

I’m going upstairs (in my house) to work…. I truly tired of this discussion….

Juno – it is HRC who made me see her that way….. see my list above…

It is a true shame. That’s why you keep seeing McCain attack Hillary and vice versa, while both ignore Obama.

lol! that is funny :)

The other edge of this system! I saw a satellite video Thurday morning; it was centered in Nevada and Utah, and had a radius of something close to 700 miles. I was impressed when I saw the barometer reading Thurday evening, where it had dropped from 29.80 to 29.40 in 24 hours.

I’ve been wondering about the climate also: the jacarandas in LA used to bloom in June (’June gloom’ and all that); this year they started in late April. We’re getting frying heat earlier too, it seems, and less morning fog in the summer.

Ha ha ha.
Really. Who needs a front page article about something that people are going to yap on and on about anyway?
Reminds of the time Jane wrote, (something like) why do I even bother with a subject on a thread, you guys are gonna talk about whatever you want anyway.
Are you staying warm and dry? I’;ve a got a little fire in my fireplace and am trying to ignore the CNN my husband is watching.
EG Rocks!

What band? The group I work for is the Sons of Champlin.

Good morning. I’m a new poster, although I’ve lurked forever. I love this site: people are kind and inclusive. The only reason I haven’t posted before is that I’m SO angry at so many issues (such as the Occupation, telecom immunity, and yes, Hillary Clinton), I’m afraid my posts will be too vitriolic. If I post again, I’ll try to contain myself, I promise!

Nice history! And, yup, you are.

Maybe they’re angry and hysterical because their candidate has been getting death threats since the day he announced. He was given unprecedented secret service protection during a primary campaign. Maybe repeated references to assasination is not just tasteless, but dangerous. This is something that the wife of a former president should know.

Now I’m pissed.

there’s more to this than just that one sentence ;)

Welcome to the lake….. usually the waters are very fine here…

Um, maybe they invited her to?

I just think he supports Obama and hates Hillary. As Katymine said, this was one of a long list of things she’s done to piss me off, but he’s in a unique position and should not be fanning the flames. Obama’s people should contact him maybe…

Rock On…what great history. How nice you are still standing.

You’re right. I filled up a website with the experience.

It is obvious that Juno is winning no supporters for Hillary. In fact, she has never done anything other than increase animosity between factions of the Democratic Party. The only beneficiary of her efforts is John McCain. Consider that.

You just want to be.

Calm down. It’ll be okay.

She was simply saying that other primaries have gone into June.

But if it makes you feel better to be full of self-righteous moral umbrage, so be it.

They all have Secret Service protection, although McCain rejected his.

Glad you “un-lurked.” Keep on posting.

Welcome lefttown! Great to meet you.

Whereas places like TalkLeft have posters for whom Hillary can do no wrong. (You might want to think about that.)

What I thought was the worst of her remarks was that she said that they’ve been trying to get her out since Iowa.
What does she think the primaries and caucuses are about? (Not to mention that Iowa and New Hampshire are the beginning of the primary season – that’s what made it so stupid a remark.)

And she’s still running?

The hubris of Obamans is breathtaking. they don’t see it.

Club band called Nyle. The guitar player went on to be the keyboardist for The Tubes. Nyle was 7 guys. Electric baby grand Hammond B-3, Fender Roades, 2 guitars, bass and dummer. 4 sets of originals 5 or 6 nights a week. Different club every night.

Exactly. Her two references to primaries extending into June were to give her plausible deniability. June is less than a week away and she has absolutely no intention of dropping out come June. It’s already a forgone conclusion that this primary will extend into June. That’s not a subject of discussion any more.

Her point was exactly her reference to Kennedy’s assassination.

lol! Well thank you for translating what Hillary said for us.

Love them!
(and, my husband just asked, really? what’s his name and I told him what your handle is. He said yeah, that sounds like a roadie name.)
He asked me to ask you whatever happened to guitarist, Gary Haggerty?
Yeah, we old rockers.

It’s different when you do?

Or KO?

Yes, I’ll listen to RFK, Jr.

Btw, I believe Michelle Obama when she explains her “proud” comment. I also believe her husband when he does as well.

I could just go on with whatever interpretation I find most politically helpful to my candidate, but I’ll go with the explanation of the person who said it and those who know her best.

K?

“You just want to be. Calm down. It’ll be okay.”

That is so unbelievably condescending. Maybe you really don’t get it. Some would say “what a tin ear.” If you really just don’t get it, the discussion is pointless.

Another thread taken over by a troll. Later.

love the posters, could spend the afternoon cruising your site.

you should at least get your facts right. Obama was given SService protestion from the beginning when there were 14 dem candidates.

What’s a morning without coffee, cookies and all the personalities here at FDL? One of whom at least makes old song lyrics come back to life – nothing wrong there.

The way I got my job in 1968 was this. I was out of the Army, so I was healthy and couldn’t be drafted.

The ONLY “test” I had to pass was carrying my half of a Hammond B-3 up a flight of stairs. I could, so I got the job, and learned the rest while I was doing it.

They all have Secret Service protection, although McCain rejected his.

NO McCain did NOT reject SS protection…. HE is very is indeed protected….IT was the secret service that notified the Anti-war groups that the fund raiser on May 27th in Phoenix was moved….

McCain is and has been protected by the Secret Service for months.

And where did I tell you what anyone said?

Yeah, those are great :)

I have an old poster that was my father’s for Big Brother and the Holding Co. at the Arc[sp?].

Juno, you make it hard to stand by you, though lord knows I’ve tried that tack. Straight question. Are you a GOP plant?

Just went to your website and saw the saw the name is really Terry …Hubby says’ “Sorry for the memory loss, dude.” Ha.
(We have his B3 in the livingroom…lotsa music here.
He’s still cracking up here over Phlegm Truck. ha ha ha.

EG….. back to the subject of the post….. In July I will get my first view of the Alps…. from northern Italy…. and southern France

FWIW, I understand and agree with Michelle Obama’s remark. We as a country have doone some very shameful things (look up the ‘Trail of Tears’), and there are people who think those are what we should be proud of.
If you don’t understand it, I’m sorry.

I am laughing my ass off!!! I had to get my half of the B-3 up the stairs also!!! Who knew that was a standard test.

Oh brother.

I’m addressing people insisting she was stoking something rather than simply noting a timeline.

Why is that interpretation okay?

I’ll believe the person who made the comment and the son of RFK, thanks.

If Obama says something that is then distorted and he explains what he meant, I will also defer to him since he said it.

But I guess you’d accuse me of telling others what he meant.

Tried getting back to topic way back when. Good luck with this!!

cool!
me brother has a pack of the classics, was lucky enough to be entrusted with them while in college. Big Brother and the Holding Company, Bill Graham Productions, Janis, the Dead, etcetera
wow, tw3k dayglo flashbacks.

Unbelievable sunsets. Critters a-plenty. Wildflowers in profusion. Simply amazing. Breath-taking, one might say.

Barbara,

I love your story about REAL mountain climbing. Thanks for sharing.

(((Elliot’s TOE))))
Yeah, man, the vibes off that site just might help your little toeie heal faster…at least it’ll keep you off your feet.

Well, as always, good luck to you.

I’m going to go pour another cuppa and enjoy this wonderful day :)

Oh the Alps! Astonishing. Katymine, have a great time!

I’m going from one beautiful set of mountains [Cali coast] to another tomorrow [Appalachians]. Feel so fortunate to live near mountains, somehow they make me feel safe.

Must be the Scottish Highlander ancestry.

that’s taking it literally katymine, did you come home with a dirndls and lederhosen?

What is the next mountain you are thinking about climbing?

I am going to do a little research and find out what it will take to run for public office

more later

Why? Because I don’t want to believe the absolute worst interpretation and instead choose to believe the person who said it and the son of the subject of the sentence???

Well, despite that, I’m still not going to go Repub on the Obamas and insist that what I WANT her comments to mean are what they really mean.

I still remember as a kid – before I was ten – hiking into the Yosemite back country, six miles south of Tuolumne Meadows. Going over the pass involved going up a decomposed-granite slope (switchbacked trail) with a rest stop at the top … 10,200 feet. The camping area, a couple of miles further on over a smaller side ridge, was at 9900. (I learned how to fillet a cooked trout there. Also how to play ‘Crazy 8s’.)

I bought two books….. France & Italy wine driving tours….. Going to enjoy my 10 days driving through France and northern Italy before I relax by the pool in Crete for a week…

Oh, lordy. Exactly one year ago, we were in Ireland, having just spent a couple of weeks in Scotland. My great-grandmother was born in Forfarshire on the east side, not far from Aberdeen. What a glorious country! Inverary, Isle of Skye, Inverness, Cawdor Castle (think MacBeth), the highlands, the lowlands, Loch Ness, the whole nine yards (which, I subsequently learned, comes from the amount of fabric required to make an authentic kilt).

Have very fond memories of Bill Graham. He sent us fried chicken one day when we were waiting outside the Fillmore I think it was. Always put apples out.

Mr.Cbl

Oh thank you demi, I need all the help I can get, I keep smashing the poor thing. And the dog so didn’t mean to step on it yesterday.

Man, you folks just insist on making enemies out of anything or anyone Clinton, even when we AGREE with you.

The mister just said the best investment he ever made was the Rol-r-kari dollies.
Oh, thank god for this side thread.
Whew.

Welcome, and I love your handle!

I’ve been wondering about the climate also: the jacarandas in LA used to bloom in June (’June gloom’ and all that); this year they started in late April.

Another one of those inconvenient facts which the Republicans so disdain.

I hate you
well of course I keed, just jealous, just very jealous. I love the whole concept of Crete. Would be a dream vacation for me.

PW upstairs. Toodles. This time I really mean it! Sunshine beckons.

Warm and dry and happy with all the good coffee the pups made here, thanks!

Sorry, people are choosing to be angry and self-righteous about this.

Clinton has explained it. RFK, Jr.,has explained it. They’re ignored in favor of Obama’s supporters deciding their meaning will take precedence.

And sure, that meaning is pretty ugly.

There are literal mountains…… having grown up the daughter of a Wildlife biologist who worked for the US Forest Service…. hiking and going into the wilderness areas often…..

And there are figurative mountains….. like my fun year last year surviving my cancer surgery (I am fine now) but it sure turned my life upside down… changed a lot of how I view things…… At 55, I was seeing my life time line just like my parents who are in their mid 80’s and active….. that hit me square in the face…… now I am trying enjoy every moment, realize that I need to do things NOW because waiting for someday is not acceptable…… AND I have a low tolerance for BS now….

Sorry it turned out to be “put down that chair!” I’ll try to keep my mouth shut next time. Have a good one.

Running for public office? Wow perris…you rock!

LOL!

This being the Memorial Day Weekend, I thought Holmes’ poem “The Last Leaf” was appropriate. The man in the poem dressed in the tri-cornered hat, I recently learned, was based on an actual citizen Holmes saw as a child. The man had taken part in the Boston Tea Party and was the last survivor from that era–the birth of a new and free Nation.

Maybe FDLers/emptywheeler’ers’ will be similarly recognized some day.

The Last Leaf
by Oliver Wendell Holmes, 1831

I saw him once before,
As he passed by the door,
And again
The pavement stones resound,
As he totters o’er the ground
With his cane.

They say that in his prime,
Ere the pruning-knife of Time
Cut him down,
Not a better man was found
By the Crier on his round
Through the town.

But now he walks the streets,
And he looks at all he meets
Sad and wan,
And he shakes his feeble head,
That it seems as if he said,
“They are gone!”

The mossy marbles rest
On the lips that he has prest
In their bloom,
And the names he loved to hear
Have been carved for many a year
On the tomb.

My grandmamma has said–
Poor old lady, she is dead
Long ago–
That he had a Roman nose,
And his cheek was like a rose
In the snow;

But now his nose is thin,
And it rests upon his chin
Like a staff,
And a crook is in his back,
And a melancholy crack
In his laugh.

I know it is a sin
For me to sit and grin
At him here;
But the old three-cornered hat,
And the breeches, and all that,
Are so queer!

And if I should live to be
The last leaf upon the tree
In the spring,
Let them smile, as I do now,
At the old forsaken bough
Where I cling.

The ancestors are from Inverness, where it’s cold even in the summer. Have swum in Loch Lomond. Beautiful country.

The apology needed to be made to the Obama’s…it was his assassination that she was referring to. That’s why she finds it so essential to remain in this race…so she claimed.

But the reality is that this is simply bulldada…does she really think that the Convention would not select a nominee or that the Party Elders would not reconvene a convention IF some sort of tragedy occurred? She held a significant number of delegates that barring a disaster of her own she would have likely have been the option…or influenced the selection, even if she dropped out back in April.

Her assertions make no tactical sense in regards to an ill or otherwise incapacitated nominee.

It only makes sense to continue running if one is intent on splitting the party, damaging the nominee so that a later insurgent nomination (in 2012) can be pushed, or making major rule/platform changes at the Convention.
Given that the third option is not even being talked about…which of the first two is she still running for?

Of course.

It’s all about Obama.

What isn’t?

Thank you egregious!

A huge oil field has just been discovered off the coast of Brazil. Huge. Implications are that the US will be able to buy from them, because it is closer than the Middle East and they are an ally. This was reported on either CNN or MSNBC yesterday, so I think they may be right for now…something might happen that will drop the gas prices. Also, I have heard several times in the past two days about the “oil bubble”. I’m not for gas guzzlers, but I’m just saying that the price of gas will probably go down in time for the elections. Oh, and it will be credited to the Republicans, of course.

Delurking to post about something not Hillary. Hint to Juno, et al.

Kind thoughts and prayers for the people in Windsor, Colorado would be greatly appreciated. I know several people who suffered major damage to their homes and businesses in the tornado that hit Thursday. I was about 3 miles east of the path the tornado took, cowering in a basement for about an hour. We just don’t get supercell tornadoes like that here–we get cute itty-bitty Dorothy-movers. So this was a shock to everybody here.

Windsor just got hammered, and some of those most hard-hit were lower-income people. The part of town that got hit was the older part of town, and many of those who were hit work for Kodak, which is shut down due to damage to its coolers. We had another big storm move through yesterday, with another funnel cloud reported just east of the one on Thursday. It was amazing how unnerving it was hearing another tornado warning. One friend of mine lived in Oklahoma for 34 years and never had as close a call as Thursday.

So, to any who feel the need to fling poo today, stop for a moment and think about the people who can’t fling poo because they’re trying to figure out how to rebuild their homes, find their missing pets, or reassure their terrified children.

Sorry for the end rant, but one of my favorite things to read on FDL is the Saturday Pull Up A Chair thread, and I resent it being hijacked on a weekend when I really, really needed a mellow place to hang out.

Then do you also believe that her comment about RFK was only made because “the Kennedy’s have been on my mind a lot recently”? Yet she has made several allusions to RFK’s assassination long before this one to justify staying in the race. So much for her “thinking of Teddy” excuse.

One question? Did any other candidate EVER rationalize their remaining in the race until the convention using the potential assassination of the leading candidate as their justification? What does this say about the candidate who says such a thing?

Juno, I think one thing you have to take into account is that HRC was repeating a rehearsed talking point. She’s said almost the same thing several times. I have no doubt that HRC was just as devastated by the events in 1968 as everyone else. I am also of the opinion that she has lived with the security threat herself for years and years and is at this point in her life less sensitive to that topic than the general public. The thing is, the general public still has deep wounds and pain from that era, so mentioning assassination is frightening and a reminder of what can happen. There is no doubt that she is using the analogy in a politically veiled way for some reason. I personally think she was talking about the constant pressure for her to bow out before the race is over. It was completely unnecessary for her to use the RFK assassination as an example to explain that he was still campaigning in June and so she should campaign until June. It was no accident that she said it when other examples would have sufficed. It was bad judgment and in bad taste to say the least. Why do you dislike Obama and Obama supporters so much?

1) if you read my first post on this thread, you will see that what I found distasteful about her comment was that she made it the same week Ted Kennedy was given terrible news (I’m not an Obama supporter and therefore do not feel the need to zealously defend any and everything about the candidate I support, nor do I feel the need to bash Obama and turn everything about him into a negative and in fact defend him frequently);’

2) She was saying that other primaries have gone on into June. That is all.

Obamans are behaving like republicans here…again.

You’re repeating a talking point about her repeating something.

I have not heard the other references and therefore do not know their context, nor do you I suspect, and therefore will not make any judgments on them.

You all choose to believe the worst about what she said rather than believe her. Seems unObaman to me.

Thanks…that is so gentle. I used to have a colleague, way older, who would grin, laugh as she quoted, “To each his own, said the old woman as she kissed the cow,” and laugh some more. Such treasures. Thank you.

Thanks BuggyQ…I plead guilty.

I used to live in Ft. Collins, and I know that I never heard of that type of tornado hitting in the area. I send my thoughts and prayers to all who are suffering.

Of course.

It’s all about Obama.

What isn’t?

The comment was about why Clinton was staying in the race against Obama. To bring up RFK in that cotext as a justification clearly means the reference is about something like that happening to Obama, She’s not running against RFK…we all KNOW how RFK died. Why apologize to the Kennedy’s other than using RFK’s death as a crass (and utterly illogical) weapon to justify her own egotistical jousting at windmills.

I believe it was printed in Time, and in some other interviews which they played on teevee yesterday. I don’t believe the worst they are saying about her at all, i.e., suggesting she wants something to happen to Obama. Absolutely not. I just think she should not have chosen to invoke something that obviously was in bad taste.

That’s horseshit. The CLINTONS caused people to take the republican view of them because for all intents and purposes, they ARE republicans. Can you say Carlyle Group? Board of Directors of Wal Mart? Not exactly bastions of progressive thinking.

No, the comment was a response to people calling for her to get out.

If HRC had chosen to not take advice from people like Rove and Penn, she probably wouldn’t be in the mess she’s in today. That is her choice and reflects on her judgment. Remember the comments she made about having to put up with the left wing of the party….she’s a Lieberman type.

MOre to the point, she’s Lieberman in a pantsuit.

And her response was unnecessarily suggestive and inflammatory in nature.

So how is Obama going to create all this unity without working with Republicans?

I don’t have a problem with her having been on the board of Wal-Mart and working on getting women into higher positions there.

Her voting record matches Obama’s. I guess he’s really a Republican, then.

Michelle Obama was a corporate lawyer. Does that make her a Republican?

I don’t think so. I guess you do.

My very favorite comment on this thread for my FDL rainy day blues reference. Thanks pdaly!

So was Obama’s “Sweetie”.

Huff n’ puff.

“The comment was about why Clinton was staying in the race against Obama.”
BINGO: That is called hair-splitting. She is saying exactly the same thing. In court, one would say question asked and answered…Move On. Ln the other hand, that you for the perfect example.

cookies to go with milk
(Note: these are not low fat or low sugar)

Chocolate crispies
2 squares (that’s 2 oz) unsweetened baking chocolate
1/2 cup (1 stick, 8 Tbs) butter
1 cup sugar
1/2 tsp vanilla
2 eggs
1/2 cup sifted flour
1/2 cup chopped nuts

Melt the chocolate (an the butter too, if you want).
stir in the rest of the ingredients and beat well.
Pour into 12×16″ (11×17″) jelly roll pan or rimmed cookie sheet, or 2 8″ square pans. It will be a thin layer. (You can line the larger pan with foil.)
Bake at 400F for 15 minutes.
Mark in squares while warm and break apart while cool.
(If they won’t break, or if they stick to the pan, it needs to go back in the oven for a few more minutes.)

This recipe from my mother’s mother, who climbed her own figurative mountain.

Should have read, Thank you….

Oops. 3 8-inch square pans, not two.

Right.

so when Obamans asked her to leave and the answer was no, why didn’t they move on?

Her comment was in response to being asked to leave. It had nothing to do with Obama.

To those who want it to be.

To the rest of us, including RFK’s son, it was her saying other primaries have gone on into June.

to many, Michelle Obama’s proud comments were also inflammatory and offensive.

To the rest of us, she was simply saying she is proud to see Americans wanting to change for the better.

We hear and see what we want to hear and see, and a few of us are honest and apply the same standard across the board to try to come to the right conclusion.

I just wanted to see how far this rant would run and man, it is a beaut!
Rapid Cycling is the tremor before the full-on presentation, depot drug
the only way down then. Buh Bye Baby, So Long!

“We hear and see what we want to hear and see…”
_________

No, some things are perfectly linguistically clear.

But, maybe it wasn’t really a dog whistle schtick, maybe it was simply a case of DISQUALIFYING STUPIDITY.

The RFK assassination allusion was entirely unnecessary to proffer the general argument for staying in (i.e., that primary races historically have gone on through June sometimes). Lert me repeat that s-l-o-w-l-y for you.

The RFK assassination allusion was entirely unnecessary to proffer the general argument for staying in.

It was, consequently, gratuitous in the extreme. Done intentionally, it was scurrilous. The only alternative is gross political incompetence indicative of likely Presidential performance.

Take your pick.

Ding.

Thanks Bobby….. THAT is the point…..

Hilary intimated she was hanging around in case Obama is murdered. Juno, you’ve convinced me of one thing – if Hillary steals the nomination, for the first time in 36 years of voting, I’ll be staying home.

I’d rather have McCain than Hillary and here’s why: With McCain you KNOW you’re getting an asshole. How much worse can it get?

Hillary talks like a progressive but acts like Joe Lieberman. Furthermore, how in the name of whatever can you support a person who not only voted to authorize, but has NEVER EVER said “Ya know, I fucked up, I trusted Clusterfuck. It was a mistake, I was wrong, and I’m sorry.”

Until she does that, she’s nothing but a republican. She likes the war, wants it to continue and because of that, I will stay home if she manages to steal the nomination. You’ve helped me get to this way of thinking. Congratulations.

Thank you.

Lather, rinse, repeat:

The RFK assassination allusion was entirely unnecessary…

“entirely”- look it up, Juno. Lexically precise. Not open to rational subjectivist interpretation.

What you don’t know would fill the Astrodome.

Except that, if she were to drop out now and Obama were (I don’t even want to say it)in June, she’d be the nominee, so it makes no sense.

Okay.

I just want to make sure that this is yet another example of that Obama hope, inspiration, unity stuff.

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]

Not after that comment.

It was ENTIRELY unnecessary for Obama to callthat reporter ‘Sweetie’ in order to get his point across that he would be having a press conference later at which he would answer questions, but he did.

I guess that means he’s a raving sexist woman hater.

Sigh.

The clarify that point for me.

It’s YOU all who want to believe the worst about this comment, not me. But please refute my post.

In other words, it isn’t.

So what’s this change and unity coming again?

Hillary is a republican. She voted to authorize. You can’t refute the truth.

707! You are getting weaker by the ASCII character.

Now, that is just poignant.

And singing to the choir is when only like-minded comments are tolerated and accepted.

Maybe FDL should require loyalty oaths?

Btw, isn’t me telling other people off because I simply disagree with them. Nor am I calling them trolls.

Then explain it.

Go for it. I’m all ears.

Thanks for the recipe PJ!

I will not further feed the troll. You have been neutered. Deal with it. You Got No Game.

Juno, how old were you in 1968? Because if you were old enough to realize and experience what was happening then, you likely wouldn’t be comparing a remark invoking the assassionation of RFK to someone calling someone Sweetie.

Facts…
Keith Olbermann Says It All On RFK Assassination and Hillary

Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson told The Post, “She was talking about the length of the race and using the ‘68 election as an example of how long the races in the past have gone — she used her husband’s race in the same vein.”

Not true. Until 1996, the California primary was always at the end of the process so things kept going until June. All the big California primaries were capstones at the end of the race. That is why Bobby was in California in June. And that is why Bill Clinton was there in June. There were hundreds of delegates still to be won.

But this year California voted in February and as June begins only Puerto Rico, South Dakota and Montana are still to be heard from. The analogy is ridiculous

If you are going to use analogy then pick one that actually fits. NOT invoke horror that was implied.

OK, one last turn of the table:

It was ENTIRELY unnecessary for Obama to call that reporter ‘Sweetie’

And that equates with irrelevantly alluding the the murder of RFK precisely HOW?

School us, Juno.

I explained it and you had nothing to say. Deal with it, you’re supporting a republican. She voted to authorize, and has never admitted it was a plain ol’ mistake – instead she makes mealy-mouthed excuses for her lack of due diligence (she never read the text of the pre-war intelligence, she got summaries from staffers) and tries to spin spin spin.

Admit it, YOU support the war in Iraq, you want it to continue, and that’s why you support Hillary.

In other words, you can’t refute what I said.

Again, it’s you Obamans insisting she was hoping for a tragic event in June, not me, and that that was her intent. If it was her intent, would it make sense considering she’d be the nominee if she were to drop out now?

She was simply noting that other primaries have gone into June.

You guys remind me of all the phony outrage from Repubs too, insisting Democrats hate America, hate the troops, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Hatred of Clinton and hyperbole: good to know Obama has inspired such things.

Here Juno, go watch this. It isn’t long, but it brings home why so many people are emotional about this. Peace:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..322/521393

I give you The Senator “From New York.”

I’m not comparing the two.

I’m commenting on the desire to turn what people say into the worst possible interpretation.

And look, if RFK’s son, who really DID experience that tragedy, can remain level-headed and understanding of what Clinton was saying, that’s good enough for me.

Like I said, I’ll go along with Barack Obama’s explanation of things his wife says over the Republican explanations. See, I thin they have a political agenda.

No thanks.

No, in other words, I am not gonna indulge a useless and endless “yes, but…” contest with you. You stand refuted. 10-4, over and out, You get the last, bandwidth-wasting word if you like.

Enjoy the squabble here, because it will not be coming into Blue America.

I’d say that a good 80% of what people say is entirely unnecessary.

Why your saying it was entirely unnecessary makes it so I’m not quite sure. You’re using yourself as a source? Or are you citing someone? It’s not clear.

At any rate, if you go way back and read my first post on this thread, you will see that I did in fact say it was not a tasteful comment, but in the context of the news about Ted Kennedy this week. I can also tell you that I sent an email to a friend this morning saying that what she said was not necessary.

But that doesn’t mean it meant anything nefarious.

Neither will my money.

1,851 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen egregious and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

What is the agenda for the FDL front page taday, sharin’ experiences and technical niceties about bikin’ is great but WTF, the there is a political tsunami that struck yesterday across the entire continent of American politics with Mrs. Bill’s unfortunately revealing remarks as jest the last big wave!! Are we gunna have some politics this afternoon here on the cutting edge of progressive life?

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, WE KEN ALL HOLD HANDS WHEN THIS BATTLE IS WON!!

Not even if I show you my hall pass?

She was simply noting that other primaries have gone into June.
Yes or no.
You’re repeating a point that has already set people off, so repeating it isn’t going to change things.
Being strong for your position is one thing, but, c’mon.
There must be another avenue for making a positive difference.
It just isn’t happening here.
and to Raven @ 294 – What you don’t know would fill the Astrodome.,
That could be said for many of us, depending on the subject, don’t you think?
I thought we were encouraged to disagree with others arguments, but are supposed to stay away from personal attacks.
But, I guess I’m wrong, again.

How sad that, after eight years of Bush quashing dissent and loyalty oaths and scripted audiences and demonizing anyone who disagreed with or challenged him, so many left-wing sites and left wingers seem to have taken on this same ethos.

I’m not conversing with myself here.

So we’ll just let the vile interpretion stand uncontested.

Obama likes things uncontested. why is that?

Huh? She’d still have to be nominated.
That’s done at the convention.

and at 299
I guess you never have to talk to people whose names you don’t know. What would you have used, if you had to answer someone whose name you didn’t know? ‘Hey You’? Is that better or worse than ‘Sweetie’?

Sweetie is not a sexist term, it is a term of endearment. Women call men Sweetie too. I’d rather be called Sweetie than M’am…;P

1,851 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen egregious:

“Enjoy the squabble here, because it will not be coming to Blue America.”

What the fuck does THAT mean? We have had one of the biggest series of political firebombs dropped on the continent of American life in the last 24 hours and you are tellin’ us that we can’t discuss it in public?? What the fuck is Blue America ,then, and why should I contribute?

KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T TREAT YOUR GUESTS LIKE CHILDREN!!

I’d have said, “There’s going to be a press conference later.”

You really can’t see how derogatory “Sweetie” is?

this is what I mean. Obamans simply cannot call him on any faults.

It was not appropriate, and even Obama said it wasn’t.

And Hillary WOULD be nominated at the convention. She came in second. The vile interpretation that she’s waiting for such a horror is not only gross, it makes no sense.

All I did initially was point out the HRC’s allusion to the RFK murder was entirely irrelevant and unnecessary to making her case for staying in through June. Entirely. That part is not rationally open to interpretation. It was a rhetorical Molotov Cocktail far better not assembled and tossed. Whether she did so intentionally is another matter, indeed open to speculation (’cuz she is obviously not gonna further explain it more clearly), but that was not the central thrust of my observation.

Juno, let me be completely rude here (since you seem to think it’s okay).

You have been so one-sided in your views, and everything you have posted since you first came here, that I think you’re a troll (and I’ve been here a lot less often since you showed up than I used to do).
You insult people who don’t agree with you,
you insult candidates (and their families),
AND THEN
you complain about our behavior and our expressed views.

I have my hall pass.

“yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…yes, but…”

I am highly amused Juno could not refute any of my points so it ignored them.

Why do I think Juno is actually from here?

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!

Bobby…add “Sweetie” to the “name”…lol

OK, this also speaks for me.

You know, or maybe you don’t, EG is one of my favorites. I think either Jane or Christy has laid down the law on this bullshit. They had umpteen fucking threads about Mc Cain’s medical records yesterday and nothing on this totally out of line crap by Hillary. Delete me if you will, this is chickenshit.

Bobby,
My comment was to Juno.
No need to go off on me.
Your recent loss notwithstanding…
Nowhere was I questioning your position.
Hey, I’m a musician too.
I’m still feeling loss.
Maybe you just miss read the comment numbers.
????

How’s the blackout on the Clinton Vulture Strategy going?

I found the absence of an FDL post on Hillary’s “gaffe” perplexing as well. It’s generated a shitstorm everywhere else. And it is germane.

Somebody laid down the law here and I’m going to scream until they ban me.

Like you make sense.

Lotta thin skin around today. I was not “going off” on you. C’mon, demi. You posted

I thought we were encouraged to disagree with others arguments, but are supposed to stay away from personal attacks. But, I guess I’m wrong, again.

Mine was just a clarifying observation, given the food fight I obviously started with Juno.

I did not suggest your were conversing with yourself.
That kind of comment works against your point.
You are now arguing with people who are trying for unification. Some
I’m not talking about the people who are arguing with you, I’ve read several comments here, earlier, seeking unification.
You always focus on the opponents of your arguments.
I’ve rarely seen you respond to people who are, for whatever reason, trying to back you up.

Bobby
You did not start it with Juno.
Have your read this post?
It stared many hours ago.
I stand by your quoting of my post.
I’m not sure of what you mean by Clarifying Observation.
I welcome specific clarification on that.

I came in today at 289, attacking his argument, that’s all. There was no personal attack in what I wrote. That is as specific as I can get. That’s all I meant in 330.

The idea that there is censorship involved, or pressure from the outside, is not applicable here.

This isn’t [or wasn’t] intended to be a thread about the primaries. We generally spend Saturday mornings talking about our own lives, this is the same as every other week.

I fail to see When you got here answers my question.
This thread started at the wee hours of the morning.
My point was that you Did Not start this thing with Juno.
I am so dismayed by this thread of commentary.

I haven’t insulted anyone.

It’s pretty clear why I’m the only Clinton supporter on this thread, on a left-wing site no less.

Think about it.

And feel free to quote me on any insult I’ve directed at anyone. I’ve not called anyone a troll or told anyone to “stick it” or incoherent or anything like that. I’ve made my arguments about the subject and in fact have NOT gone personal.

The same cannot be said of people toward me.

Let’s just put it to rest, OK?

My point was that you Did Not start this thing with Juno.

Fine. All I did was note that I was (at the outset, anyway) countering his assertion of subjectivity w/respect to the HRC flap when I came in and saw it. You are the one who brought up the issue of personal attacks. What in the world does ‘when the thread started’ have to do with that?

Maybe I’m just unusually dense today. And, sorry to have aggravated you.

Enough.

this place smells like half empty beer bottles and stale farts. it were a troll filibuster and from the looks of it the troll pretty much won. whatever happened to the “Do not feed the trolls” rule? jeeesh!

What do you expect? Hillary is not a left-winger, she is a RIGHT-winger.

Well, point them out to me. The only person here who has been friendly to me today, Barbara, I did respond to in kind.

My point is, there is a group of, say, ten beating up on one, and the one is the person being accused of being a troll, of insulting, of starting something??

I don’t think that’s fair or right. I’ve dicussed an issue. I have given my perspective. And in response I’ve been called a troll, watched as people are told to not respond to me, told to “stick it”, among other insults. I’m okay with it since I am one for free expression, although it’d be nicer if people could be civil, esp. Obama supporters since that’s what they’re supposedly about, but I don’t like being accused of things not only am I not doing but others are.

With whom Obama voted 99% of the time.

That’d make him a right winger, I guess.

Tears, brought back a lot of painful memories.

And she replied the reason why she was staying in was because something like the tragedy that occurred to RFK might occur to Obama. “We all recall what happened to RFK”. So that’s the complete context. And then she tries to evade the fact she was suggesting that Obama might be assassinated by referring obliquely to Teddy’s illness. Oh..except she’s made the reference several times before Teddy’s illness.

And is she saying that Humphrey stayed in because he was intuiting RFK’s assassination? Humphrey was in the race because he had a very real chance to win outright…

And Bill Clinton stayed in because HE was the front-runner.

Neither of these explanations make any sense…at all.

What’ incoherent about stick it? If it were they wouldn’t have deleted it.

What a thread. I went and mowed my grass and took a shower and came bak on and we are still on his topic. Sad.

Actually Juno, up until March of this year I was supporting Hillary on this web site (and I wasn’t an Obama supporter, then)…but her quite obvious attacks against Obama have done much to change my impression of her. You are right, people see what they choose to see…but you are asking people to ignore the obvious.

I asked you why these examples she gave had anything to do with her staying in the race against Obama? In the case of her husband HE didn’t withdraw because he was the front-runner.

In the case of RFK and Humphrey (and I remember it well as it was the first election I EVER voted in) both had a chance to win outright based on an upcoming Primary (California). RFK won it. In addition McCarthy withdrew because he realized that having two anti-War candidates in the race were siphoning off support for both.

Hillary is now losing even those delegates previously committed to her.

Co-Chair of Clinton’s California Hispanic Campaign Jumps To Obama

masochism is the answer ……