To me, the response to Packer's piece is far more illuminating than the actual article, which is rather banal. If "movement conservatism" has failed, as I sincerely hope it has, I'd argue that this is because too many of its proponents believed their own press and became persuaded that "movement conservatism" was ever an intellectual movement at all, as opposed to an essentially nihilist politics of vicious opportunism, where the entire goal is power for its own sake.
Packer is of course discussing the GOP's rather bleak electoral prospects this year, especially in the House and Senate. (He pretends to believe that McCain is a new kind of "post-partisan" candidate, a common form of elite journalist wishful thinking that ignores, for openers, Hagee and Parsley.) He speaks to a number of conservative writers, like David Brooks, Ross Douthat, David Frum, and Pat Buchanan. The Brooks part has gotten the most attention, perhaps because of Brooks' admission that "You go to Capitol Hill—Republican senators know they’re fucked," which is of course hugely entertaining. But the overall thesis is that the period of GOP dominance just may be over, because the Nixonian "Southern Strategy" as well as other mechanisms for splitting the old FDR coalition may just have finally run out of steam. Moreover, the end of the Cold War left old-school conservatives as pointless as Batman without the Joker, and ever since the Reagan administration they've been essentially "Happy Days Again" with Ted McGinley starring as a feckless George W. Bush and Dick Cheney acting like a superannuated Arthur Fonzarelli. (Packer doesn't discuss the Clinton interregnum or 9/11, two pretty glaring omissions. Both probably ended up keeping movement conservatism from wheezily expiring at the end of the first Bush administration.)
Anyhow, as far as political history goes, Packer's article is interesting, if facile; taking David Brooks at his word is funny, when it's perfectly clear what safe haven he intends to reach as well as what sinking ship he is rapidly quitting. But like I said, the fun is in the responses to this class of stuff. Here is, for instance, Jonah Goldberg:
I agree with most folks quoted as saying that the GOP is in deep trouble and that conservatism is something of a mess these days as well. But for Packer, these terms — conservative and Republican — sometimes seem like interchangeable terms, while for me they are not. I think this may be one of the reasons why I thought the piece was so structurally flawed. He begins by arguing, asserting really, that conservatism begins with Nixon in the late 1960s, when Tricky Dick crafted a strategy of exploiting resentments, which any student of intellectual conservatism knows is simply wrong. Nixon did not like or trust the Buckleyites and the Buckleyites were hardly wild about Dick either. This fact should help one keep in mind that treating conservatism and the modern GOP as interchangeable is an analytical error of the first order.
This is absurd. Buckley may not have liked Nixon, but so what? If you want to argue that Buckley was not all about the exploitation of racial, social, and cultural divisions, be my fucking guest. And if you wish to argue that "intellectual conservatism," whatever the fuck that is when it's at home, stands in sharp contradistinction to Nixon's legacy -- uh, no. The historical record would be rather different were there ever a "principled conservative" opposition to Nixon. Or to George W. Bush, for that matter. Serious intellectual movements are less agile with ex post facto rationalizations for egregious anti-democratic behavior.
After all, what are these deep and profound "intellectual principles" that have been so basely betrayed by the 21st century GOP? Well, here's the noted dope Michael Goldfarb to explain it:
American conservatism has a set of core principles that includes a belief in free markets, free people, and in the greatness of the American people and the American nation. Those principles are timeless. They are also pure and, in the eyes of conservatives, true.
Oh. Well, these principles are also, in the eyes of people who aren't morons, fatuous slogans and overripe bullshit. Goldfarb adduces the farm bill as an instance of why conservatism has found itself in its current plight, but this is silly -- if Reagan confronted pandering agricultural policy, history fails to record it. And if the current crisis of conservatism is reflected in the GOP's poor electoral prospects, well, why do you think the farm bill got passed, and how many favors does Bush give downticket GOP candidates in rejecting it? I mean, please.
But beyond that, this is conservatism? "America is great!" That's it?
Well, here's Andy Sullivan:
Conservatism is not, to my mind, about solving problems, which is why Burke remains a very problematic governing philosophy for modern Americans. It is about a modesty toward what problems government can ever solve. Its responses to emergent questions will not be an attempt to "solve" them, but to ameliorate them with a narrow set of tools. And the narrower the better.
Right. So conservatism, in short, is about wanking. Governments fuck up a lot, especially if you don't like governments. And that's it? Well, congratulations. You can see why any government elected on a platform of self-contempt would have trouble perpetuating itself. Of course, in reality, "conservative" politicians are not immune to the blandishments of power, as history rather spectacularly teaches us.
The real problem with "movement conservatism" is that it is reactive and deluded. Global warming is real. The Iraq war was a grotesque mistake. The mainstream media are not Democratic partisans. Gay marriage is not going to destroy America. And so on.
The real problem with "movement conservatism" is that the only people left who believe in it are completely crazy idiots.
And that's all she wrote.
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“Republicans run for office on the grounds that government is incompetent. Then they get elected to prove it.”
- PJ O’Rourke, “GOP” humorist
Conservativism is about doin nothin cause according to the “philosophy” doin anything is - while sometimes fruitful- always evil.
It’s a fuckin morality play.
Waaaaaaaah.
The only thing goopers are allowed to do is to invade other countries and to fuck with the tax code. Faced with any problem- five hundred goopers meet and try to figure out how to fuck with the tax code to solve it (if it can’t be invaded that is).
Evening mah folks.
that’s fine crap you wrote, thers.
I’ve had practice.
The only kind of fuckin with the tax code that’s allowed in problem solving- of course- is LOWERING taxes- mostly on the rich cause God loves em so much. Why the fuck else would they be rich
why did job get them boils?
If God loved you- you wouldn’t be sittin there in yer production built home eatin chicken.
is this a nice way of saying they are batshit crazy and so is the horse they rode in on.
Yeah, and “lowering taxes” isn’t exactly High Philosophy.
That was nice?
I’m losing my touch…
I am always baffled by the term “movement conservativism”…does it refer to a bowel problem?
I’ve joked occasionally that, rather than making government so small it could be drowned in a bathtub, the Republican goal is to make it so stupid it will drown on its own.
You’ve added some background to the joke, Thers.
well, you didn’t use any swear words
They’re certainly a pain in my ass.
My dad’s one of those Conservative-Americans, fortunately it wasn’t contagious (Though I did go through a Libertarian phase). Though it is fun getting him riled up. “So what if single payer healthcare is socialism, it works.” Can earn me a good half hour non-sensical tirade on the evils of socialism. If nothing else, conservatives provide vast amounts of entertainment, so long as they’re away from the levers of power.
Did ya all know that Rachel Ray is a terrorist-sympathizing threat?
Dunkin Dumbasses
Another example of the wingnuts ideas
so you’re a movement conservative? Eat some prunes!
Does he mind socialism when he’s on the interstate?
Are you up here LS?
or getting his socialism security check?
The meaning of “movement conservatism” is a bit controversial, but I take it to refer to a discrete social and ideological formation, IOW, the self-identified “conservatives” of NR & then NRO, and all sorts of affiliated institutions & personalities.
They think they’re going to change the face of the nation, by “restoring” it to some mythological conservative roots. They won’t be happy until America is one big, non-stop Leave it to Beaver episode.
Every time I think I couldn’t possibly be shocked by these guys again …
The collapsing interstate bridge doesn’t give a flying shit how much money you got if you’re traversing it when it fails.
FUCK!
exactly my forking point thers
Oh, he despises all forms of socialism, even though he has a government job, which could easily be performed by private industry (Where he worked actually had to bid against private contractors, the government bidding against private industry!) Consistency and intellectual honesty aren’t traits often found in conservatives.
*lots of swear words flying around my house* i just pinched my right ring finger (and nail) in a bifold door.
Jesus Loves Me
Couldn’t resist.
Oh….man that hurts….. Ice…. quick put that bag of frozen peas on that finger….
Ow! I hate it when I do things like that.
((((Suzanne))))
Thers, I don’t dare read this!….
This comment was at Ian’s I just reworked it
Ideology seems to me to be ideas that may or may not hold a basis in fact but are accepted on well Faith is as a good a word as any despite evidence to the contrary this is an idea to explore further.
Are we the Left with less illusions because several years of GOP rule have forced us to abandon anything that really does not work?
Is Bush so bad because he has never been told No? Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely Lord Action.
Is Ideology just bad code that got into the system even if it turns out to be right. Is the problem ideas accepted as true for some reason without facts?
Do our desires form reasons for what we wish were to be?
Do we need to defrag our systems every now and then by loosing power?
Balance has been restored.
Whew.
Close call.
Owww!
Oh, he thinks social security’s a big scam, though he’ll have no problem drawing from it, same goes for his taxpayer funded paychecks though. And his taxypayer funded healthcare.
Geez, Thers, tell it like it is why doncha. Great post.
Owwww….
Bowl of water with ice cubes in it… :(
thers always dishes up the finest crap
So much for going for that bowl of ice cream….. thanks for the diet help there Suz…
sorry ma’am
if we are real chatty, it will scroll up the page and you can ice cream without negative side effects
Gets complicated knowin what’s socialism and what ain’t…public libraries are definately socialism.
I figure everyone should have to buy their own fuckin roads- sharin em is fuckin Socialism!
We used ta have potluck dinners- but the goopers in the neighborhood figured they was socialism- so now we all stay home an watch teevee.
I’m sorry…..but that’s funny. Shame on me.
How about public schools? Police departments? I suppose any government service could be provided by a private entity.
Shit we got PARKS in this town that ANYBODY can go sit in- even if they don’t pay TAXES- what the fuck’s up with that- some of em ain’t even AMERICANS.
I didn’t dare write it, to be fair.
It oughta be illegal ta go ta an american park and not speak american.
The real problem with “movement conservatism” is that the only people left who believe in it are completely crazy idiots.
The other problem is that there are a lot of these idiots, perhaps 20% of Americans.
I think I will haul more R-30 insulation up the stairs …… and maybe that ice cream is calling my name…
Ouch.
This is why it’s always a bad idea to go through doors. Conservatives never go through doors. They just toss grenades. It’s you own fault.
T’anks.
Hey Suzanne….. that bill to arm students in classrooms died a very nice death in the Arizona state senate……
Ya mean it isn’t?
But not any two of them would give you the same definition of conservatism. They truly do not know what it means. I have asked so many people “why are you a Republican” and they cannot tell you why. They say “well, I just am.”
Are GOP ideas driven by desire is their Ideology a way to justify grabbing even more wealth while others starve, does their wish fulfillment seek to excuse doing unfair things to get rich?
Notice that Warren Buffet and George Soros actually try and use their cash to help people while Bush, Darth and the Neocons seem to think that you deserve what you get if your poor. Blame the victim to make yourself feel good philosophy?
Maybe the GOP is out of ideas because they have gotten with Bush all the power they wanted? Granted they are not using it well or finding that power to be as fun as they thought it would be. Power is responsibility its work if you want to sustain the power that is.
Persian curse may your every desire be fulfilled instantly?
Hey- look at this movement conservatives- yer conservative seats are showin lots of movement- toward the DARK SIDE!
SENATE RATINGS CHANGES
MS-B Wicker Likely Rep to Toss Up
NC Dole Solid Rep to Likely Rep
MS-B SEN: According to Senior Editor Jennifer Duffy, Republicans may have to fight to hold on to a seat in the Deep South. “A competitive Senate race in Mississippi? In a presidential year? Really? As crazy as it sounds, a new poll does indeed show that appointed GOP Sen. Roger Wicker will have a fight on his hands in his bid to complete the remainder of former Sen. Trent Lott’s term.” Read more here.
NC SEN: Duffy writes that Democrats have put the race in North Carolina in their sights. “In their effort to put more Senate races in play, Democrats have turned their attention to North Carolina and GOP incumbent Elizabeth Dole.” Read more here.
House Editor David Wasserman takes a look at the past week’s developments in the House here.
· House Ratings Changes:
OR-05 - OPEN (Hooley) Toss Up to Lean Democratic
Fond farewells to another bad idea from the people who brought you supply-side “economics.”
Damn, now I can’t take my M-60 to school.
woohoo katymine :)
Paul Weyrich once stated how radical movement conservatives really are:
“We are different from previous generations of conservatives. We are no longer working to preserve the status quo. We are radicals, working to overturn the present power structure of this country.”
Sure would be a boo-hooer if ol Libby lost her seat eh?
sorry, they say one resorts to training in a crisis.. my training involved well placed kicks to open doors
To something like the Fuhrerprinzip?
Libby keeps pattin her ass with both hands- just ta make sure that her “seat” is still there.
They are the Roman Senate led by Brutus. Newt led the movement but where does it go now?
Yes, that’s more or less what I was referring to, the 20% or so that have authoritarian personalities.
Well, yeah.
They’re fundamentalist radical lunatics.
You been drinkin’ this evening?
Of course- haven’t you?
dugg
You are obviously not cut out to be a conservative, then. If you have even a minor problem, use all available resources — your refrigerator door sticks a bit? Take a flamethrower to it! Freedom demands it!
You have much to learn.
Some Grade A snark:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsme....._unpreced/
A shout-out to Jane Hamsher ta boot.
Try diplomacy first- YELL at the fuckin thing!
*sigh*
guess i didn’t become a good lifelong republican and instead became one of them progressive ones
Ohhhhh…..yea.
Flamethrower? Bah, that’s for wimps! Now, an axe, that’s the way to deal with a balky kitchen appliance. It’s much more personal.
[Safety note: Be sure to unplug any electrical device before applying an axe to it. Injuries and embarrassment may result from failing to follow this procedure.]
I’m sure I’m the trillionth person to point this out, but the rise of modern conservatism mirrored the rise of television.
yeah, its real embarrassing when the firefighters, paramedics and cops are laughing as you are explaining how ya got hurt
So, either follow the prescribed procedures or have a good cover story ready. ;)
I saw it this morning but it was during the Pull up a chair goes south thread and then forgot about it….
ya just gotta time the telling so they don’t drop the gurney
Well, here’s Andy Sullivan:
Conservatism is not, to my mind, about solving problems, which is why Burke remains a very problematic governing philosophy for modern Americans. It is about a modesty toward what problems government can ever solve. Its responses to emergent questions will not be an attempt to “solve” them, but to ameliorate them with a narrow set of tools. And the narrower the better.
Conservatism is about putting the breaks on the middle class so that the Elites can keep on racing ahead. The Elites have the cash society can be better if a societie’s cash was used to help people.
At what point though does the desire to better yourself by working hard get turned off by heavy taxes? At what point do the rich by not spending to better society cause a society to standstill, stagnate, or even fail?
Different circumstances at different times suggest differing levels of investment is needed.
But thanks to Bush’s war we know that right now taxes will go higher or the Dollar will keep dropping which is something that I am quite sure the rich do not want!
We the Left warned them we are not going to pay for Bush’s war Bush’s base the Economic Elites stole Bush two election so they can pay for their own mistakes.
It’s not too late to try to obtain a nuclear weapon. What American household is complete without a nuclear weapon?
Nah, the neocons just read too much Ayn Rand. They started to think they were really special (toned in church lady snark.)
We re-named it Put Down That Chair [h/t crosstimbers]
beats bringing a knife to a gun fight for sure
Boy, talk about goin’ south in a hurry. Really pissed me off. I always enjoy that thread on Sat morning and a couple trolls turned it into a disaster.
There’s another concurrent - and possibly related - trend, which was cleverly illustrated by Amused Muse (scroll down a bit).
Interesting article, by the way.
Or a samurai sword to a butter dish…
{{{{{{{{{{{egregious}}}}}}}}}}
Kept trying to pull it back on track but well those who were there know…
If I might hazard…
We turned it into a disaster by taking the bait.
You can get a little packpack with a 2.5KT yield. Shouldn’t bother folks more than a couple miles away. When I worked NucWeaps we jokingly tried to design a device to rid lawns of gophers without breaking any windows in the neighborhood.
there is a reason we advise not feeding the trolls
Been shopping for some surface to air missiles but can’t find them in just the right color….. the alternative is just finding some centrifuges and making my own… AZ is big on uranium ore….. just within view of the Grand Canyon too…
Exactly.
Look for the widespread distribution of tactical household nukes to be a central plank in the McCain platform.
like in caddyshack?
I wasn’t gonna say anything about that. I was hopin’ those that did would catch themselves at some point. A lot didn’t.
Are you a new guy in town? Welcome!
Explain to me again the difference between the old kind of conservatism and the nuke kind of conservatism?
Well, here’s Andy Sullivan:
Conservatism is not, to my mind, about solving problems, which is why Burke remains a very problematic governing philosophy for modern Americans. It is about a modesty toward what problems government can ever solve. Its responses to emergent questions will not be an attempt to “solve” them, but to ameliorate them with a narrow set of tools. And the narrower the better.
Conservatism is the idea that the rich need the poor to bail them out by forcing the Federal Reserve to accept subprime loans as collateral at face value before the Real Estate market collapsed.
Which drives down the value of all of our Dollars and raises the price of Gas,oil, wheat, rice etc but the banks thank God are solvent enough to try and force people out of their homes.
Conservatism is mercy for me not for thee.
I felt bad that I wasn’t there in real-time. And was grateful at the same time.
Details?
In my experience, conservatives are intellectually lazy people who don’t want to think.
I’m sure we can find a contractor who can do a conversion to your favorite FS color. We have just about every shade of green available.
I found alot of the conservatism/Republicanism was about self righteousness and the willingness to crow and happily shove peoples faces in shit.
Now that the GOP Express has gone off the rails a lot of my GOP friends don’t want to talk politics anymore.
-G
It was impossible.
Juno.
In my experience, they think quite a bit, but don’t examine their assumptions too closely. Which is to say, they never bother.