By now you could mention the name John Hagee and immediately most people would quickly associate it with the term “great whore.” The reference, of course, is to Hagee’s now-notorious exposition on the Book of Revelation in which he describes the institution of the Catholic Church as a lascivious woman astride a horse in the biblical story on the end of the world.
Like all Hagee sermons, this one hardly serves as a model for scholarly exegesis. As he bumbled around, straining to fit the Biblical text into an elaborately illustrated historical timeline, Hagee let his animus towards what he calls “the apostate church” show.
But the emphasis on Hagee’s clumsy diatribe misses a larger point: that Hagee was describing the Book of Revelation in terms that demonstrate how he thinks it is a real description of church history, a real forecast of the end of the world, and, as a result, a template for U.S. foreign policy.
Most frighteningly of all, despite all of this, he and his Christians United for Israel (CUFI) are treated as a legitimate foreign policy voice in Washington by the Bush Administration, John McCain, and many other members and former members of Congress, including Joe Lieberman, who likened him to Moses, and even the Catholic Rick Santorum. Santorum told me last year that although he doesn’t share Hagee’s beliefs on the end-times, he appreciates his – er, foreign policy views. Trouble is, though, those two things can’t really be extricated from each other.
In his book, Jerusalem Countdown, and in many other books and sermons over the years, Hagee describes how biblical prophecy should dictate U.S. policy, and how such policy will lead to the Second Coming of Christ. Hagee is popular in some Jewish circles because his view that God’s will prohibits any land concessions by the Israelis to the Palestinians is supposedly “supportive” of Israel. His views can only be deemed to be supportive of Israel, of course, if you think it should be embroiled in years of bloody war which culminate in the conversion or death of all the Jews.
Hagee protests that he wants peace in Israel, but that peace will only happen when Christ comes again – after God decimates a Muslim army and a giant earthquake swallows the Dome of the Rock. For everyone whose feet are firmly planted in reality, however, his thirst for this bloody ending to the world as we know it defies his claim that he’s a peace-seeker. As Jeremy Ben-Ami, executive director of J Street, which brings a sane new voice to the Middle East policy debate in Washington, recently, Hagee “look[s] at the trade-offs that Israel must make to achieve peace — and hope[s] to thwart them.”
Like his friend Rod Parsley, who also endorsed McCain, Hagee believes Islam is satanic. Here’s how he described that view at the late Jerry Falwell’s church last fall:
Satan wants Jerusalem for his messiah, the Antichrist. God has promised it to King David that his seed, Jesus Christ, shall rule over it forever and forever. People ask why can’t the Arabs and the Jews get together over this city? Listen to me: it is not about the two-state solution. It is not about money. It is not about land. It is about theology. . . . Muhammed taught a theology of triumphalism . . . .for Islam to rule the earth. The problem is that sitting in the throat of Islamic nations in the Middle East is Israel, who has an unconditional blood covenant with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that the land shall be theirs forever and forever. God did not loan the land to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He gave it to them by blood covenant, and the Book of Genesis and that covenant still stands. It is there regardless of what the United Nations wants. It is there regardless of what the U.S. State Department thinks. It is there in spite of what the Arab nations want. It belongs to Israel. . . . I am telling you there will be no lasting peace in the Middle East until the Prince of Peace, Jesus Christ, returns to that sacred city and sets up his eternal kingdom.
I’ve been writing about Hagee’s mad view that a war with Iran is presaged in the Bible for a couple of years now, and have written a new book, God’s Profits: Faith, Fraud, and the Republican Crusade for Values Voters, exposing Hagee’s (and other televangelists’) controversial prosperity gospel doctrine, bizarre views on Israel and the end-times, and cozy relationship with the Republican Party. His obsession with money, Armageddon, and the spiritual warfare that animates daily life are the core of his preaching week after week, not screeds against the Catholic Church.
The fact that his anti-Catholicism became the centerpiece of media coverage of McCain’s “pastor problem” caused the press and the public to take their eyes off this ball. (Thanks, Bill Donohue!) The focus on Hagee’s disdain for the Catholic Church has eclipsed the fact that Hagee thinks that the roadmap for peace in the Middle East is against God’s will (and will bring God’s wrath on America in the form of hurricanes, floods, and even terrorist nuclear attacks) and that the Bible provides the real roadmap for U.S. policy. Hagee’s colossally illogical extension of this view is that diplomacy equals appeasement and war is the only answer. Sound familiar? If you’re wondering whether Hagee has had any impact on Bush, I’ve laid out how Bush’s appeasement speech comes straight out of the Hagee playbook. No accident: Hagee’s relationship with Bush dates back to his days as Governor of Texas; Hagee later endorsed Bush’s presidential candidacy in a book, God’s Candidate for America, and in 2003 proclaimed that God “raised up” Bush to “crush Saddam Hussein.”
Let’s not let the Catholic League’s Donohue – who himself has issued anti-Semitic, anti-gay, and other derogatory slurs – dictate the terms of a vital conversation we all need to have about Hagee’s role in McCain’s campaign. Of course it makes for eye-popping video that Hagee used the term “great whore” and elsewhere suggested Adolf Hitler learned his anti-Semitism at Catholic school. Certainly if Hagee does think the Catholic Church should be blamed for the Holocaust, he should have to explain himself – something he tried to do last week, an effort that was clearly aimed at helping repair McCain’s image with Catholic voters.
But Hagee’s fixation with Armageddon, and his ability to virally market that fixation to the shock troops through his daily television program and multi-million dollar ministry, has had a catastrophic impact on our Middle East policy. With a possible McCain presidency promising to be a third Bush term, none of us can afford to overlook that.



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Great post, thanks.
Yes, thanks, as outraged as I am, being one of those “dear hearts” [sic] that Hagee blithely said might be “offended.” We all need to hang John Hagee around McSame’s neck with baling wire, without meal privileges for the “pastor,” until he drops off in shreds. Perhaps we could surround McSame with Rod Parsley and George W. Bush as well. It would be hard to see McSame, but that doesn’t seem to matter…
This stuff is so scary and ill-informed. It would make the Wright loops quite rational and mild to anyone with a brain and paying attention. I hope Hagee’s opinions and his past get lots of attention and commentary and stick quite permanently to McC for “whoring” to get his endorsement and affection.
I was at the gym on Monday using one of the treadmills and what did I find on one of those Teevees…… the trinity broadcasting with Hagee himself filling the whole screen…… thankfully no sound but the closed caption was on……. went to management and demanded that they turn that bigoted hate monger turned off and question that was even on in a public business…. that maybe I needed to move my membership somewhere else…… WOW did that Teevee get changed and the the two guys right under it using the ellipticals were very happy.
Welcome to Firedoglake, Sarah. And thanks for this excellent post. I’ve thought it strange that the media have focused on Hagee’s anti-Catholicism and ignored the brand of apocalypticism he preaches. He and his fellow believers love Israel not out of any Judeophilism but because they want to see it blown up.
Thanks for this important post and for shining a bright light on the genocidal and venomous “policy” that has misguided so many. Not funny that crazy interpretations of words and books have become our foreign policy that embraces xenophobia in the extreme.
*shudders*
Welcome Sarah! Great post!
It’s pretty funny when you think about it. Hagee believes in psychics. Someone should ask McCain…Do you believe in psychics too? Do you believe that someone can see the future via visions?
Hagee and Moon are political charletans. Snake oil.
In the hearings, talking about Iraqi forces taking the lead. They only lead when American troops are standing behind them ready to take over when Iraqi forces fall apart asthey often do.
These guys who preach apocalyptic meme….. segways right into Jeffery Feldman’s new book “Outright Barbarous” discussing the violent speech found on the right. That it is ok to advocate the death of large segments of the human race……
Drug trade in Afghanistan is brought up. P. punts. Military don’t like to deal with this issue so they pretty much ignore it.
I wrote about this downstairs, it’s not only hagee that wants the “end times”, it’s the adminstration, bush himself
from the very start of my tenure here at the lake I have been telling everyone that this president is a “dispensationalist”
these are people that really do believe the “armageddon” is a GOOD thing, they actually think that they will be part of the “prophesy” that goes to heaven
the actual “prophesy” of the rapture is a relative new concept and it is bastardization of the “comming of the age”, the new ‘era’ is actually the changing of the contellation, the water bearer, the fish, etc
at any rate, these “dispenasaitonalists” think they can actually force the hand of god and “bring it on”
this is the president’s goal
now, whether or not he personally believes in “armageddon” and “the rapture’ doesn’t really matter, they think if they tell the base that’s what’s happening they will be able to do what they want at will and literally steal the wealth of planet earth
they do have that “armageddon mountain” (which I forget the name but someone can post it for me), to live their lives and their families lives in what they consider some kind of uetopia
wow GOOD ON YOU katymine! where I live, if I objected to that kind of programming in a public place, I’d get thoroughly trounced. It’s that kinda place down here! That’s awesome that you spoke out, and great that the powers that be listened! Really! GOOD JOB!
they play rock music at my gym, which is way cool. Thankfully!
And because they want to convert all those chosen children of God/Yahweh to become Christian. Never mind they may be happy, faithful Jews.
LIEberman sucking Betrayus now on cspan3. think i’ll go throw up for a while.
Lieberman (lover of Hagee) up on cspan lauding the commanders.
ick.
The religious right were cheerleaders for war in Iraq, but Hagee is even worse. This is a great post, and this picture of Hagee needs to be repeated over and over. I don’t for a minute believe that John McCain shares any of the ideas of the religious right, but if he is willing to pander to such quacks as Hagee, he may be as sociopathic as Bush.
Far be it from me to speak for the ordained and theologically better informed among us, but (you knew I’d do it anyway, didn’t you?!) . . .
My best recollection about the first coming of Christ is that he walked his talk about ministering to the “least” among us, paying at least marginal attention to those pesky commandments, and defending the vulnerable. Of course, the outcome of that story was grim. He was killed for his outrageous compassion.
Whether or not one embraces Christ as personal savior et al, it’s a powerful story, eh?
I see a strong parallel between the Roman Empire and BushCo. Intolerance, greed run amok, refusal to negotiate with anyone, high-handed, tops-down governance, etc. And we all know where that led.
Lieberman quoting Robert and Fred Kagan fellating P. and O. Just sick.
L. now moves on to Iran. They are killing 100s of American soldiers, blah, blah, blah.
on a related note, Sunday’s Book Salon (at 5 pm et) will be:
The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power
The Family a creepy group if you ask me
P. massive weapons caches from Basra come from Iran. Doesn’t mention how the dog and pony show on this was cancelled because the evidence was so weak.
Talks about Iranian interference in Iraq. Thank goodness our 140,000 troops in Iraq aren’t doing this.
Lieberman’s loyalty lies with the objectives of the most conservative wingnut bunch in Israel and what they think is best for Israel. That is not what is best for the US.
I find that attitude traitorous.
L. again: Iranians are killing Americans!
On Basra, perception that it had failed. But really it was a success. Blah, blah, blah.
P. piles on.
I suppose if everything is going so well we could pull out a lot more of our forces. Oh wait, evil, evil Iranians won’t let us. Darn!
Well it helped to have my facts right on hand…. Thanks David and others…
I’ve been known to turn the channel on hotel Teevees from Faux…. those in public areas….. I just walk right up…. and change them…. and if anyone complains I give them that mothers look over my glasses….. usually works really well.
Welcome Sarah,
Thank you for this version (above) of the Hagee video. You’re killing me.
Hey there! We/I keep whining: “But what can we DO?” You just did it, ma’am. Booyah!
There is this big pantomime that Iraq’s government really is a government. Much of this is just seriously delusional. So much progress is being made that it looks like we may have to stay there forever.
Lieberman found P’s report “thrilling”.
His word.
I kid you not.
dropped my jaw on that one
The media are not reporting your victories in Iraq. Bwaahaa.
lieberman – asks for the status of basara on the ground status.
petraeus – says operation had a shaky start. tactically, iraqi forces were “stiffened” by reinforcements brought down from the north. very small role for usa forces (?!). iraqi forces continue to expand their areas of control around basara. strategically has increased support for maliki. sunni coalition may return to gov. kurdish support solidified. maliki demonstrated going after AQ in mosel. off to a good start tactically. political impact is that maliki
lieberman – thank you for that report, which i find nothing short of thrilling.
inhofe up.
excuse me for a bit, think i may be sick.
They should have Richard Engels before the committee. He has been there the whole time, probably longer that anyone else. He certainly challenged W on his success claim. (Let NBC know how good he was; he’s being roundly attacked.)
levin – breaks the hearing for a moment to approve 144 nominations. took all of 10 sec (maybe less).
Welcome to the Lake Sarah, a fine post
checking around the toobz, yesterday’s disclosure of his Hitler Was Ordained By God to ‘Hunt’ Jews rec’d very little traction in press – only found it on Yahoo so far, cerainly not CNN or MSRNC
sent it to Anti Defamation League and B’nai Brith – but I see San Antonio B’nai Brith once gave him their Humanitarian of the Year award – oy
don’t worry selise– all 144 have been properly “vetted”.
Waiting for anti-nausea meds to kick in before risking the Hagee video, Sarah. Meanwhile, my own take on the above.
George W. Bush embraces a theology of triumphalism….for neocons to rule the earth.
Just sayin’.
levin can’t even remember how many nominations they just approved.
Wouldn’t want to delay the departure for the long holiday weekend. ;-)
LOL! excellent! I gotta try that, the “mother’s look” thing. I haven’t used it on anyone by kiddo, and not on her for years. LOL!
WTG katy!
Full disclosure: I don’t know how to DIGG. (Smite me if you must.) Wise ones? Sarah’s post deserves broad readership.
Dugg!
I so appreciate the Digg reminders in here. I always forget! Get too caught up in the material and discussion!
Thanks to all who remind us “forgetful types”.
:)
Funny how Hillary gets a pass on her religious affiliation. Didn’t I read that she is involved with “The Family”?
Just asking.
I think that the reason that the MSM fixated on the “Great Whore” stuff is that their natural inclination is to try and stir up outrage and indignation, and thus it’s more efficacious for them to focus on the stuff that Hagee says that a sizable number of people would find to be personally insulting and offensive.
But doing so actually gives McCain, Leiberscoundrel, Parsnips, et. al. an out, because it allows them to frame their differences with Hagee as theological differences – that is, as differing interpretation of scripture. And, of course, here in the U.S., we do have a history of tolerance and respect for theological differences, even if we tend to appeal to that history mostly in defense of our own supernatural beliefs, and conveniently forget it when we find it necessary to attack others.
The fact is, though, that Hagee and his diseased flock really do pine for the day when they will be lifted up, while the unholy infidels (namely, the rest of us) take our dip in the Lake of Fire. Indeed, if Hagee were to read in tomorrow’s paper that Iran managed to smuggle a dirty bomb into downtown Tel Aviv, and detonate it, resulting in Isreal’s retaliatory nuclear strike on Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, (and just to be sure) Egypt and Saudi Arabia – well, he would get down on his knees and praise God for delivering unto him the happiest day of his sad, sad life. For real.
Sara’s post, then, is not only dead on, but necessary medicine. We need to publicize not just the part of Hagee’s toxic theology that is insulting, but that which is batshit crazy and exceedingly dangerous. Hagee represents a sizable population of people who look forward to the End Times like a 6 year old looks forward to Christmas morning. We must not get bogged down in squabbles about tact and manners while we assess this very real threat.
s’okay!
start by clicking on DIGG icon up top – it’s like registering for any site -
ya put in some info, a name, a password, they e mail confirmation to ya . . .and away you go !
once registered, ya click on Digg up top
fyi – I use it in IE only, have trouble with Digg using Firefox, but that could just be my set up here
RE Digg, read the directions barbara. Duh!
on the senate floor (c-span2) – “debate” on supplemental blank check for bush’s wars. lincoln up (d-ark). going back to the sas hearing.
Thanks! I’ve been meaning to get smart(er) about this, but today’s the day. Procrastinatus terminus.
Ok, I brought this up in the last thread, and this is where the Reverend Hagee and George (or whoever’s filling him with fairy tales) are out to lunch.
This is from 2 Peter:
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
(To paraphrase (and this is my thinking with no scholarly credentials of any kind): God is not a man and time for God is not the same as time for a man. Man’s timetable is not God’s timetable as much as he (man) would like to think it is.)
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
(Paraphrase again: Nothing is going to happen until the absolutely last person that could possibly be saved has been saved. Think of Sodom and Gomorrah)
2Pe 3:10 ¶ But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(Paraphrase again: the earth is going to take on all the properties of a cinderized cue ball, and it will happen in God’s own sweet time, and it will happen when nobody’s looking for it or expecting it. You do NOT want to be here then.)
My counter to Hagee et. al.
A couple observations:
You know when the Suadis were financially backing the Sunni insurgency, that was OK. Our government didn’t say a word. Turkey invaded northern Iraq recently. We stood by and watched. But the Iranians, that’s an entirely different story.
P. says how well Iraqi forces are doing. But notice how he doesn’t say word one about how many Iraqi army units can stand and operate on their own, or that can be considered trustworthy. That’s because there really aren’t any. And the police forces are far worse.
I think folks need to pay particular attention to this line in Posner’s post:
Hagee describes how biblical prophecy should dictate U.S. policy, and how such policy will lead to the Second Coming of Christ
Attacking this idea is the most effective way to neutralize Hagee. Even among the most extreme fundamentalists, the notion that government policy can bring about the Second Coming is controversial. You have to fight somebody like Hagee by highlighting his extremism to the general public while undermining his standing within his own community. Generalized attacks on what you and I think are his nutty theological ideas only strengthen him within the fundamentalist community. The notion of basing our foreign policy on apocalyptic theology is the most scary thing imaginable to outsiders. Claiming that we can, in effect, control God is anathema to fundamentalists. Highlighting this belief is the best way to counter him.
senate floor: senator clinton up (c-span2) now speaking wrt iraq debate – gi bill amendment.
she looks better than she has for weeks!
P. trying to spin the Shia on Shia violence as central government aginst militia instead of militia on militia which is what it really was. Says Maliki is doing this for the benefit of all Iraqis. Untrue, he’s doing it to try to disenfranchise followers of Muqtada because his own party Dawa, and its allies the ISCI are so unpopular and seen as stooges.
‘Morning, all:
Excellent and thought-provoking post, Sarah.
Welcome to the headlines at FDL …
Idle question;
When will the rest of the world finally have had enough of us (’Murkah)?
Before or after we, ‘bomb, bomb, bomb, Iran’?
Clearly, it’s part of the ‘Plan’.
There is nothing in the world like combining ‘End-Times’ Religious FANATICISM with nuclear weapons …
We got future?
Last questions, I promise;
Is wee Georgie dumb enough, petulant enough, and narcissistic enough to do it?
And would Congress go along for the ’short’ ride?
Good on you! ‘Specially the part about takin’ your membership elsewhere.
Had a somewhat similar (but less satisfying) experience with a local restaurant whose rubiens (sp?) I loved. TV was always tuned to faux so one day I asked that it be changed to something else. Counter person said it was the owner’s decision; should have treatened taking business elsewhere but instead never went back again.
Interestingly, it was permanently closed when I got back east this year. Doubt it had anything to do with the idjit box selection but, still and all the same, it was one of those lovely “Karma, baby!” moments. *g*
Garrison Keillor, Yesterday’s Salon:
May 21, 2008 | The Current Occupant tossed Nazis into a speech last week, something he rarely does since it only reminds people of Dick Cheney. He likened those who would negotiate with terrorists to those who tried to appease the Nazis, an awkward comparison, since Nazis were self-defined and wore the swastika proudly, and terrorists are anybody we nominate to be terrorists, who may include terrorists, people who know terrorists, people named Terry, or people with wrists. One reason Guantánamo is kept top-secret is so you and I won’t know how many innocent people have been locked up there and how little the bureaucracy cares about innocence, which might remind people of the Nazis.
LOL! Those PEOPLE WITH WRISTS!
hehe
ben nelson says we don’t have to go into the possibility that maliki might do well in the next election as that would be purely speculation.
Appears Congress already has.
Thank you.
1. don’t know
2. ours to make
3. yes
4. probably – imo, that’s our job to change.
Sarah, welcome and thanks:
gotta go dogs – read y’all later
leavin’ ya with a little o/t -
RNCC hiring Rove Butt Boy Tim Griffin as Obama Oppo puke -
(yep, that Tim Griffin)
Greg Sargent
Have A FDL Day dogs!
Sigh, you is prolly correct, barbara, but I was just trying to give ‘em the opportunity to consider consequences.
I really don’t think the rest of the world, starting with Russia, intend to sit quietly by should wee Georgie and the Congressional stoodge-pot go off the deep end.
‘Bomb, bomb, bomb ‘Murkah’ just might be ‘consequence’.
Naw, we’ll NEVAH be on the receivin’ end …
God wouldn’t allow it, we is the ‘chosen’ …
Senator Bird up on CSpan 2! He’s one of my personal favs! God loves him. And he’s nailing Bu$h! LOVE HIM!
I remember reading about Hagee and Oren appearing on stage in a panel together back in 2007, but I’ve never read how it turned out. Hagee is hopeless, but Oren is increasingly becoming the chief spokesperson for the official version of Israeli historical
revisionismperspective.Has anyone written about the Hagee-Oren panel?
Yeah, chosen. Do you suppose Boy Wonder ever read this one (Luke 12:48)?
Just wonderin’.
senate floor: senator obama up (c-span2) now speaking wrt iraq debate – gi bill amendment.
YEAH! selise, lookit how his hair is changing. mine too. Hill is doing much for Grecian Formula and other color products!
Bullseye.
And the front page of the NYT today says Obama has a problem with Jews in Florida! WTF?
Supportive of Israel my ass. More like conserving them until they can be sacrificed at the proper time.
FWIW, here is a link Mother Jones has made available featuring another enlightened thinker John McCain refers to as his spiritual adviser.
Heading out for plastic and duct tape to forestall the rapture. Toodles, pups.
that Hagee thinks that the roadmap for peace in the Middle East is against God’s will (and will bring God’s wrath on America in the form of hurricanes,
Oh, just, oh! When I hear people like him talk as if they have a direct understanding of God’s Will, it just makes me sad and furious.
It seems that he has that narrow and small vision of God as some old white guy sitting at a big intricate console, like a multi-line telephone system.
God is so much bigger and better than that.
Use the Force Luke!
Welcome Sarah!
Sarah,
This area is a blind spot for me – so difficult to accept that significant numbers of people have bought in. Intellectually I do know it’s true and I need to be better informed.
Thanks for bringing this important information, your expertise and insights.
That’s too funny! And even though my name is Terry, I never made the connection!
Wow. I knew there was something to Hagee’s interest in Israel…and the uneasy feeling I got when seeing his followers so excited about this was spot on (father watches him every day–ugh).