Not surprisingly the reporting on the very legitimate point brought up by Obama at a campaign appearance in Oregon, that Iran poses a significantly smaller threat than the Soviets who we always talked to, has brought out the insanity of those with no historical "bearings" whatsoever.
But really, let's compare:
1. Revolutions: The Soviets shot the Tsar, his family, his servants, his dog, his stuffed animals, his draperies, his yearbook editor, etc. Millions of Russians also died. The Shah died of natural causes...terminal dickishness. Hundreds died. And we can have an accurate position on this because America backed the losing side both times -- so there's that [USA! USA! USA!].
2. Evil Leaders: The Soviets had Stalin. They win. Plus there was nothing about Stalin that rhymed with "ass-a-hola" so it really cut down on T-shirt sales.
3. World War II: No matter how you want to slice it, the Soviets started off pretty badly, but then kicked Germany's ass in the most deadly and brutal war ever fought. Iran hosted a summit that got Stalin to wear his summer generalissimo outfit [dude was definitely "a summer"]. In comparison Khomeini was the Iranian "man in black". Mr. Blackwell would definitely vote Comrade.
4. Key Moment of Victory: Stalingrad, 200 days killed 750,000 Germans, captured 250,000. Iran, hostage crisis lasted 444 days, all American hostages freed safely.
5. Weapons development: The Soviets developed nuclear weapons more than 60 years ago, the H-bomb well over 50 years ago. The Iranians have "enriched" some uranium, yay! Although it should be noted the Iranians have been widely-used test subjects on the effects of chemical weapons. Which would explain a few things, if George Bush gave a damn -- but he doesn't so continuing on...
6. Number of Nuclear Weapons: The Soviets possessed about 30,000 of them at the end of the Cold War...most all of them pointed at the United States. Iran...uh, that would be zero. But, on the other hand you can honestly say that all existing nuclear missiles are pointed at the United States...or Israel depending on who an American politician is speaking to.
7. Eyebrows: Brezhnev in a split decision over Khomeini.
8. Clown-like Leadership, non-George W. Bush Division: Khrushchev banged his shoe with more authority than Ahmadinejad wears that Members-only Jacket. This is especially true in that Khruschev actually ran things, while the latter just drives the tiny, tiny car around the circus.
9. Allies: The Soviets had a "bloc" comprising half of Europe through the Warsaw Pact [coincidentally comprised of nations they occupied, funny that], the Iranians were tossed in with North Korean and Iraq as the "Axis of Evil" [much to the surprise of Iraq & Iran , see #5 above] because Bush learned his history from Dixie Cup sayings.
10. Movies: "Red Dawn" much cheesier than "Not Without My Daughter"
11. Military Spending: In the mid-1980s the Soviet Union spent 15 to 17% of its GDP on the military. Iran, as of 2006, spent 3.5% of its GDP on the military, the least as a percentage of the country's gross national product (GNP) in the region with the exception of the United Arab Emirates (UAE) on its military. Saudi Arabia spends more than 10 times what Iran spent. Oh, and no matter what you hear about oil, the Soviet Union had a much, much, much (add a few more) bigger economy than Iran [damn commies had oil too].
So you see when you add it all up, McCain and Bush declaring Iran a gigantic threat is correct insofar as their declarations are clearly the biggest threat ever...to rationality.
Addendum:
And just to add to the imbecility there is this, remaining after the snark above ends, just future tragedy...from the Jerusalem Post via Think Progress a few minutes ago:
US President George W. Bush intends to attack Iran in the upcoming months, before the end of his term, Army Radio quoted a senior official in Jerusalem as saying Tuesday.
The official claimed that a senior member of the president’s entourage, which concluded a trip to Israel last week, said during a closed meeting that Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney were of the opinion that military action was called for.
However, the official continued, “the hesitancy of Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice” was preventing the administration from deciding to launch such an attack on the Islamic Republic, for the time being.
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consider yourself dugg Attaturk
So you see when you add it all up, McCain and Bush declaring Iran a gigantic threat is correct insofar as their declarations are clearly the biggest threat ever…to rationality.
Uh we do have the biggest best army but with Bush and the Neocons telling Gen. Eric Shinseki how many troops he can have to plan an invasion well we have already seen how a Commander and
ChiefDraft Dodger can mess up an invasion.These madmen want their war. We must stop it before they take the whole country down the tubes. Is impeachment “on the table” now Nancy?
So does this mean we should say Thank gawd for Condi? I’m kinda hoping they’ll let one little bomb drop. Out in the middle of nowhere so nobody gets hurt…so impeachment’s up.
Great post, Attaturk. I was going on about this a couple of days ago, trying to point out that Iran is not capable of inflicting damage on the US beyond what they could do to block tankers leaving the Gulf. If that is an existential threat, then our existence is pitiful indeed.
Jon Stewart last night was a re-run of McSame’s most recent appearance. He referred to Hezbollah (and of course, by association, Iran) as a “transcedent evil”. Thanks for giving us a bit of perspective on evil.
So?
Should the American Military, which some consider the ‘best’ in the world, go along with Bu$h Co’s ‘adventure’ in Iran?
Or is it only sergeants who have courage, true loyalty to the PRINCIPLES upon which this nation was founded, and the honesty to say so, publicly?
The military had best consider VERY carefully what it chooses to do.
The military, in spite of our American history, is not immune to consequence and now must take some serious responsibility as their own …
Tried to digg this, but they told me the topic is not valid???
I’m going to call Congresspeople today. I hope you guys do the same. No war with Iran. Impeach him now!!!!!! If I have to call up every day I will.
Congress… toll free number: 800-828-0498 or send emails!!!!
Tee hee. The technician will be here any minute to switch my phone service over to VOIP with unlimited long distance. I’ll be making many more calls and now will also be faxing Washington on a regular basis.
I read recently that the American officer who played Iran in a confrontation scared the heck out of the American side in a war game. Straits of Hormuz were effectively blockaded and the officer used small boats to decimate our fleet in the Gulf. Can’t fight with no army and $200/barrell oil.
“Cheney gets his Iran on!”
digg it here
what topic did you use btw?
Think if they started yesterday they could get it done before 20 Jan 09?
OT — Another one bites the dust.
I’m not sure what you’re suggesting, but I don’t think we want to get into a military which doesn’t respond to civil authority, even if we think the current civil authority can poor piss out of a boot. The long term threat, and historical precedent, is that military coups overthrow representative government. This is particularly critical, now that we have a professional, all volunteer military, rather than a military made up of citizen soldiers.
It is our problem, as citizens, to change the civil government; not the military’s reponsibility to mutiny or overthrow the civil government.
Roger that
Iran Encounter Grimly Echoes ’02 War Game
NY Times link
The Bush administration most certainly wants to attack Iran and I’m sure they are arguing that an attack will also help McCain win the election. I really dislike these people.
Off topic: I’m so sick of seeing Harold Ford on MSNBC pushing his DLC agenda. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
This is just BS headology ops. It would be nice if the U.S. brass would acquire the necessary brass whatsits to tell frat boy to fuck off.
The fact of the matter is, the U.S.of A. is the number one threat to the planet’s existence.
Hyserical post, Attaturk, as usual. I think it’s safe to say George & Johnny are afraid of their own shadows and assume the rest of us are too.
Thanks Elliot. You are quick.
Sure, and it will only cost $14.36! We’ll be greeted by girls singing as they cast M&Ms on the roadway in front of our troops , who are marching unresisted into Tehran. Birds will sing and all will be right with the world…
Feith & Wolfowitz Prognostication Services, LLC.
OT — Just hearing on the radio (local station) that McSame was in the area for a fund raiser last night. “Dozens of McCain supporters” showed up, and there were protesters outside. This in one of the reddest of the red states.
I used the title of Attaturk’s article.
Dozens, eh? Guess that means 24. Probably more protesters than supporters.
They ain’t afraid of shit, they have all the cover they need. This is about scaring the sheep.
I guess understatement is the only place left to go… words can’t begin to express the evil.
Attaturk… your brilliant wit above…but my stomach is churning from the Iran leakage… Talk about waiting to exhale even harder. Mr. Ego President… better to destroy the world than have to be a lame duck?
Gotta go… but am motivated to start and stay squawking!!!! Impeach. Impeach. One talking point. One steady drum beat.
hmmm…
“bodily fluids” must be on their list of questionable phrases
Everyone know about the fainting goats? As Mr Zappa said, Mr America Walk on by.
I really wanted to use the HATE word but I was trying to tone down my real feelings.
Excellent! Dozens of supporters, huh? That’s kinda like 75,000 I suppose.
The current “Qucik Vote” at CNN is in line with this post:
Quick Vote
Whose assessment of the threat posed by Iran is closer to yours?
Sen. John McCain 45% 27694
Sen. Barack Obama 55% 33566
Total Votes: 61260
Except I do wonder about the (lack of) intelligence and thought of the 45%ers.
Heh. To make it even better, it was called a “successful” fundraiser. I wish I knew how many protesters and, much more importantly, whether any of them were from the myriad military families here. THAT would be something worth talking about, but of course it wouldn’t be covered here.
The U.S. military has an obligation to face the facts ‘on the ground’ and the truth of reality.
They are NOT a sacred organization.
They are duty-bound NOT to follow illegal orders.
They also have an obligation to humanity.
That is what I mean.
The future may well have no place for huge, killing machines, masses of people and equiptment dedicated to destruction and mayhem.
Just because the ‘Military’ in question is ‘Murkan’ does not justify blind obedience on the part of the military or blind belief on our part. In fact, I would argue that if America is to be ‘different’ from Germany’s Nazi Military or others, equally despicable, then it had best begin now.
Let us seperate the career hungers of syncophantic officers from the ‘mission’ of the military, which I suspect is far too close, at present, to money and power interests, the ‘Military-Industrial-Congressional Complex that Eisenhower spoke to.
What do you think?
Are you comfortable with the behavior of the military today, Crosstimbers?
Just ‘following orders’ does not stand as much … given what we face.
Perhaps it is okay, though, if they do follow wee Georgie’s orders, once more?
General Jack D. Ripper explained all this to Lionel Mandrake:
Gen. Jack D. Ripper: I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
Gen. Jack D. Ripper: Have you ever seen a Commie drink a glass of water?
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Well, no, I can’t say I have, Jack.
President Merkin Muffley: Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here! This is the War Room!
Dr. Strangelove: Deterrence is the art of producing, in the mind of the enemy, the fear to attack!
Gen. “Buck” Turgidson: Mr. President, we must not allow a mine-shaft gap!
Dr. Strangelove: Mein Führer, I can walk!
In November 1968, USS WESTCHESTER COUNTY (LST 1167) was almost sunk just off My Tho after Viet Cong swimmers attached two mines to the hull. Every E-6 on board was killed. Repair parties kept her afloat until she could be beached at Dong Tam, where a coffer dam was constructed over the damage in order to allow WESTCHESTER COUNTY to sail to Subic Bay, Philippines for further repairs to enable her to continue to Yokosuka, Japan, her home port. The Soi Rap, a tributary of the Mekong, is famous for the swiftness of its currents and it was thought impossible for swimmers to pose a threat to the ships and riverine craft of the Mobile Riverine Force. Likewise, the Germans thought the GRAF SPEE was unstoppable. Just because it’s big and made from steel doesn’t mean it can’t be destroyed. A feeling of invincibility among military planners often leads to disaster.
I love the smell of a lecture in the morning.
Long Slow Target
Good morning, Raven.
So you think there is nothing in what I say?
Have you no qualms?
No lecture, brother, just questions and concerns.
Do you share any of them?
Sure, I just can’t type that fast.
How about anchored out.
That’s dozens. 6250 dozen.
TPM
press release from the
Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs:
my bold
What if Gates refused to give the order to his Air Force commanders to bomb? Jes said, Sorry, Mr. President, I will not give that order.
too much blood on my hands to lecture people who have less choice than i do. especially since some of that blood is the blood of soldiers that i’ve let be sent to kill and be killed in my name in a stupid and immoral war. imo, mfi, iraqis, afghanis - anyone who’s suffered from what we’ve done and let be done has every right to condemn. but not us.
so unless you are not an american - i’m going to suggest you join me in working on our own culpability before we go after those who are also victim of this damn warmongering and warmaking.
we do far better to, imo, to support the dissenters w/in the military than to condemn those who are not yet dissenters.
Herein lies the difference. To some, the fact that Iran doesn’t have the Bomb (yet), that their military is small and relatively weak, and that Ahmadinejad is a clown in a Members Only jacket, means that we don’t have to use diplomacy. This is a good thing, because no one in the Bush Administration knows the first thing about diplomacy. All they have to do is convince a majority of Americans that they need a good bombing to the Stone Age.
North Korea, on the other hand, requires more careful handling because they DO have the Bomb (sort of), and their army is friggin’ huge and supposedly well-equipped. Too bad no one in the Bush Administration knows the first thing about diplomacy. God help us.
I am as comfortable today as I was historically with the military following James K. Polk’s orders to start a war and conquer Mexico, or WIlliam McKinleys orders to acquire an empire at the behest of William Randolph Hurst. They did what our constitution requires. Andrew Jackon’s invasion of Florida and hanging British citizens did the opposite and was a more dangerous precident.
The Mi Lai Massacre was an example of solidiers following orders which they hopefully would have had the courage to resist. Generals who opposed Presidential orders can resign. It is all over for our system if the military, a la Julius Caesar, crosses the Rubicon and either mutinies on a large scale or overthrows the civil authority. Surely you see that.
Who said the military is sacred. If anything is, it should be the Constitution.
only if they agree to take down any lieberman youtubes (that are not snark).
seriously though - no censorship. it’s already illegal to advocate for illegal acts (like murder) and i support that. but once we say it’s ok to prevent people from speaking because of who they are - then we’ve opened the door for the gov to claim anyone they don’t like it is “one of them” and therefore must be silenced.
better to have even hateful ideas out in the open where they can be countered.
Problem is the Air Force, as usual, is willing to carpet bomb any target suggested to them. They still operate under the philosophy of Curtis LeMay, who thought that any war could be won with air power alone. He was the one who uttered the famous phrase about Viet Nam, “Bomb ‘em back to the stone age.”
My Lai.
even in the face of their ever decreasing political fortunes it is clear they (RNC establishment) are working with an 04 mindset - so plenty of these tonedeaf klowns will buy in - although I don’t think Cheney is doing it for anything other than the cash
really don’t like the thought that Condi is the only thing standing between us and Armagettiton - so it’ll be up to Gates (and only if he still has the backing of the Baker/ISG crowd)
fwiw, don’t know of anyone here in god’s country who would back this other than the mouthbreathers and they are thankfully in short supply
Roger. Hopefully the idea got across through the typing.
What do we have to do to make this self-serving, forked-tongue, back-stabbing, ass-kissing, brain dead motherfucker irrelevant?
I’m just picky.
I didn’t realize how old you were! ;}
Reincarnation. I was a highwayman, etc.
Ever get any good stuff from the coach passengers?
Like Tina Turner.
I think I remember seeing her. If it was her, it was hairy legged, so I’m not sure.
That information is controlled unclassified information enhanced with specified dissemination.
Ewwwwww.
A feeling of invincibility among military planners often leads to disaster.
***
G’Morning SD!
You could also substitute political campaign, or financial, or neighborhood watch group or any number of other words.
Right?
I’d start (and I have) by writing the good people of CT. - urging them to use the choke collar - gently reminding them they have a senator willing to sign the death warrant of all 140,00 US Military currently in Iraq
not that he gives a crap but being publicly chastened by his constituents is not something a vain pig like himself would want :D
Konichiwah, demi.
Yep.
very good !
Ya know, I think he doesn’t give a shit. Period. I have a feeling that he won’t run next time around. Either go to Tel Aviv and pimp for the Zionists or go hang out with the gutter snipes on K Street.
The thing I still haven’t ever heard anyone explain is why Israel would supposedly need U.S. help to obliterate (using the current delicate term) Iran. Israel has nukes and they are not just decorations. They have never hesitated to act pre-emptively. So why do we even accept they hypothesis that the U.S. would need to act?
agree, agree, agree - that soul has been bought and paid for.
just thought his beyond monumental vanity could be used for a temporary stand down
further, Susan Collins among others who’ve embraced this pig, is now in the fight of her political life - would love to see her publicly rebuke his ass
Tom Allen for Senatoe 08
Slow and steady, works, eventually.
Can’t imagine you are any slower that I am …
What type am I? Hunt … peck … go back … re-type … submit … look at result … (think) … can’t spell … can’t write … where is ‘edit’ … look at fingers … come on “don’t fail me now” … brain-finger-synapse collapse … internal conflict … sluggish brain cells …
look at huge comments by others … marvel … shake head … oops! somethin’s loose inside, I hear sloshing and funny little murmurs … uh, no, that is almost-silent cursing, forgot I was babbling to self about corner on market for stupidity in raising issue about role of scared institution, even selise reminds me to look to mine own self and of course, she is correct … I gotta just hope that Georgie gets sufficiently distracted that the ‘machine’ doesn’t receive further marching orders … as an American, my job is to keep muh mouth shut and hope.
Okay.
Mouth is shut, eyes are closed, teeth are clinched … I’m full of hope.
I expect nothing less than that from the rest of you. Got hope?
My only concern is where is the Constitution, did we lose it?
Oh? Right, got to mind my own p’s and q’s …
The Constitution can take care of itself. Right?
Quess what?
I’ll raise ANY issues that I think, after some consideration, needs to be raised.
And the American Military, folks, IS FAIR GAME.
Until Georgie says it ain’t, and even then, it remains fair game.
If the military signs on to Armageddon, then we all get to rapture.
Surely, Crosstimbers, you see that?
And, we do have our very own Augustus (Bush) and Livia (Cheney) so ‘our’ Rubicon may well be Iran.
Okay peevish ‘moment’ is history, but resolve to question whatever I think needs questioning remains, just dense, I quess.
We all have to carry our own bones, I just won’t carry water for madness.
“for Senate” oy
no one is telling you not to raise questions. just expect some push back. that is all.
Not everyone at My Lai did the wrong thing.
No, sorry I don’t get that one. You’ve made a lot of good arguments, but I don’t think that’s one of them. Sure, in the case of Armageddon, all bets are off, but this isn’t that. We’re farther from that than we were throughout the last decades of the 20th century, but we’re closer to our government being unrestorable than any time I can remember, including Watergate.
Meanwhile, Over There . . .
Iraqi Troops Push Deep Into Sadr City - NYT
LIAR! oh it’s Michael Gordon . . .never mind
link
I’m really hoping that there is much dissension within the upper echelons in the Pentagon. Bu’ush may have gotten rid of those who disagreed with him before and during this fiasco but these are educated men, many of whom have seen their share of conflict. One can hope that many of them have seen that further escalation in the Middle East is a fast train ride to disaster.
The citation of the percentage of GDP the USSR spent on weapons provokes the thought: If the US brought down the USSR by forcing it to bankrupt itself on military spending, could that imply the US is now working itself into the same hole?
And is the Triumph Over Communism still to be seen as brilliance after we’ve done the same to ourselves?
Questions, questions.
Roger that.
Obama is disseminating the Russophobia of his foreign policy advisor, that great failure from the Carter years, Brzezinski.
If Obama gets in look for more confrontations with Russia even as that country becomes stronger both economically and militarily.
Think Socail Security is safe after Obama’s speech the other day? think again. One of his advisors is Liebman from Harvard who is a strong advocate of privatization; another one is named Goolsbee and he’s Yale, Skull and Bones. I don’t know about anyone else, but I’ve had enough of secret society types running my country into the ground.
If you like what Carter did, you’ll love Obama.
Hugh Thompson - moral and physical courage beyond imagining. a hero in every sense of the word.
Yes, I had seen the 60 Minutes episode on those two guys. I greatly admire them. I hope I would have had the courage they did.
OT: Hey, Raven, did you wonder why there were no Lt.’s or Capt.’s involved in Abu Graib? I never heard that mentioned, but all the guilt went straight from an NCO to a Brigadier General. I was just curious why there were never any officers on duty at a 24-hour operation (no Lt. Calleys or Capt. Medina’s).
I love good writing and that is a helluva of a good first sentence.
I think there were spooks there.
OBL has said more than once that that is his best weapon. It worked with the USSR, no reason to believe it wouldn’t work with the US. We are, after all, in how much debt to China and other nations to fund this clusterfuck? If I have anything to say about it Shrub and Darth are gonna get their recreation time in a prison courtyard. No private killing fields, no private lakes, no nothin’. Their assets sold, they can live on care packages sent to their cell. They can share the fate of Rudolf Hess. Rot in some hellhole of a jail. Then they can rot in hell.
I also love good writing.
That sentence also make me think of Chickens coming home to Roost! Ha.
More stories like this, please.
The physical courage of a door gunner an crew chief with 60’s helped.
Yes, I have also heard he is related to the devil. On a related note, you forgot to add he went to the church of that well known America hater Jeremiah Wright.
They does make for a rapid change of attytood.
Bush the Appeaser
New Vote Vets ad on the GI Bill.
no shit.
Jerusalem Post writes today that Bush and Cheney definitely intend to attack Iran before they leave office. Only Rice and Gates have held them up so far.
Idiots idiots idiots.
Hope that the link works.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/S.....2FShowFull
I just want to add my 2 cent perspective on comments above.
Re: Raven loving the smell of a good lecture…(and, I do get the tip to Apocalypse now…good one.)
I have a particular aversion to authoritarian type language. So, when I feel that someone is lecturing or preaching, something in my brain turns off, a little. In the same way that when someone is shouting at me, I miss a lot of the message and only hear “yelling”.
Of course, many of us get into moods from time to time and need to rant. I’m just saying that Style affects how others are going to receive a message. Prolly why we are asked to leave “Comments”…:)
I sure hope this comes across as strictly my view and not a Lecture.
I’ m a moron. Didn’t see Attaturks link and was in a rush. Sorry
don’t know if i should laugh or cry: The Bin Laden-Bush Consensus
Vote Republican much, do you?
I’m with you. I’ve occasionally thought about asking if I’m the only one who resents being told to “Wake Up”, etc.
imo, and as a general rule, the callers in to CSPAN who ues the phrase “wake up people” are the least informed.
Maybe it’s the Kevin James who failed Matthew’s Neville Chamberlain test.
…and often Ron Paul supporters.
We can call into CSPAN?
Really. We don’t come to this site because we’re Stupid.
There are certain phrases that I find helpful for more effective communication. Things like, I’d like you to consider…, and, It’s been my experience that…, and I’ve have found it helpful…
The I statements are usually a good addition to any conversation. The You statements have a tendency to put the listener in a defensive position.
Communication 101.
(End of gently helpful comment rag.)
New GI Bill -
you can go here and ask VFW why they strongly support the bill but allow McLiar to continue his public dissembling on it - they went so far as to let him speak at a national event in KC in early march
info@vfw.org
go ahead, ask ‘em.
new post upstairs
I sincerely wish to apologize to all for having ‘lectured’ you.
I shall endeavor to change my ways.
;~D
Fuck the VFW
And I wish to apologize to you for starting this
I’m with you. Where do I sign up?
I fully agree. I was taught that too strong a statement, aside from being alientating, is a sign that you just don’t understand a complicated subject. In air traffic control, it used to be said, “If you’re not nervous, then you don’t get the flick.” However, when you think that virtually anyone in the US, or world, can participate, the degree to which everyone follows similar conventions of conversation is pretty amazing. I’m sure the mods deserve a lot of credit.
Sludge is headlining this story in redletters.
The war caucus wants to shed some Persian blood.
-G
Quothe the Raven, nevermore.
-G
I think you are a good soul and I want you to know that my comments were not directed at you personally but made to commenting here in general.
I think that the mods here have the patience of saints.
I often times remember something that, I think it was, Newtonuser wrote about what to think about before a person presses the submit button. Something like, does my comment further the discussion? Is my comment helpful? Is my comment respectful?
Now, certainly I know that I don’t always follow those rules. I can be a real brat sometimes. I think these are guidelines for a successful blogsite.
Nice comparison, Attaturk.
But you missed a real doozy.
Biologicals.
The Soviet program was immense.
Under General Yuri Kalinin, Biopreparat expanded to a total staff of over 60,000. They ran hundreds of sites all through the USSR, including an entire secret city, Stepnagorsk, which didn’t show up on maps of the USSR and which had no post office. What it did have was fermenters that cranked out thousands of tons per year of a strain of anthrax so nasty it made the stuff used in the Amerithrax attacks look like salmonella.
Smallpox was deemed so essential to the Soviet defense effort that there were standing orders by the late 1980s that no less than 20 tons of viable weaponized virus were to be kept at hand at all times. Those orders were obeyed to the letter.
They developed a special variant of the SS-18 which had refrigerated submunitions. The better to keep biological agents viable and deadly through the heat of re-entry. These were tested.
Everything they did was tested. Every organism. Every weaponization procedure. Every delivery system. What was once Resurrection Island, and what is now Resurrection Peninsula, was a favorite outdoor test site, and is now a colossal public health problem.
The more than 2000 staff who worked on just the anthrax piece alone would have scoffed at Amerithrax. Half a dozen victims didn’t even rate as a major industrial accident at Biopreparat. They lost more than ten times that many just in the one incident at Sverdlovsk, when some of that crap was accidentally released, due to a combination of a filter failure and an administrative screwup.
You did mention the nukes.
But let me give you a flavor of what they really meant.
I grew up in Tucson, Arizona. Home to one of Curtis E. LeMay’s SAC bases at Davis Monthan, complete with nuclear-armed squadrons of B-52s. In 1973, 18 Titan missile silos went live all around the city. We were one of three communities so blessed. As I recall, the Soviets figured it’d take about three warheads to be reasonably sure of taking one of those things out. You can do the math.
The way I figured it, there really wasn’t much point in trying to evacuate to anywhere. Because if war had broken out, everything from Benson in the northwest to Eloy in the southeast would have been one uninterrupted mass of radioactive craters. “It’s everywhere you want to be.”
And we’re supposed to piss ourselves and cower under our desks in catatonic fetal balls because the Iranians might have a weapon or two, first generation, fission only, sans delivery system, in another five or ten years????
I was in right brain mode, referencing an episode Rock Profile with Matt Lucas and David Walliams playing Shirley Bassey and Tom Jones, disrepectively.
So I use my toll free number and start calling Congresspeople and senators that I heard via Jerusalem Post release that Bush intends to attack Iran in the next few months AND IT IS TIME TO IMPEACH BUSH. I am getting assistants in the office or voice mail. Biden’s voicemail is full. So is Clinton’s. I call Wexler and get a serious and respectful young male who agrees to pass it along and I thank him for Wexler’s impeachment work.
I call Conyers office and share the Iran stuff with another serious male. I tell him Biden’s voicemail is full, but I know Conyers and Biden promised to impeach if Bush goes near Iran. He agrees. So I have been patronized by a few assistants, and I ask, do you promise to tell him about this??? And he says, I will. I am sitting right next to him now. Good.
Senator Byrd’s assistant gets kind of snotty and tells me witheringly I should be calling Congressmen, not senators … because impeachment is called for by the House and I say… “I think attacking Iran might be important enough to call both groups, dontchathink?” She clearly doesn’t.
Gonna keep calling. Have been wearing an Impeach pin for … has it really been 8 years or just three…but am thinking maybe I should just start poking people with the pin end cause their reading it doesn’t seem to be doing the job.
I really hope people start squawking cuz bombing Iran is on both McCain’s and Bush’s agendas. And Cheney’s. And Rumsfeld’s. The country wants justice and they want distraction and even bigger… to prove they are right. Hubris. Time to push it back.
The Iranians have “enriched” some uranium,
Yes, but they have only enriched it to reactor grade maybe 2-4%. Weapons grade, highly enriched uranium (HEU) is 93+%.
Reactor grade uranium is the first step in a long process of research and development efforts, and most of the difficulty is in the engineering. You can’t read about it in books, you have to develop a program, and the program starts with uranium, then a research reactor to create other isotopes, etc.
Tried to digg this, but they told me the topic is not valid???
probably taking it waaaaaaay too literally ; )
Yep, the ‘eek’ factors are definitely skewed.
TomJ @ 115, have you been keeping up with the trials and tribulations of the poor bastards at Natanz who actually have to work with that stuff?
Arms Control Wonk has been reporting on their extended agony for the last three years.
They’ve got to be about half an inch from going full-out “ban the bomb”, just from the frustration alone.
I put this in the next thread but it is more relevant here.
I was just going through the calculations for the June window for an attack on Iran. The whole window extends from May 30 to June 12. During this period, the sun sets over Iran around 8:30 PM and rises around 6:30 AM. The sun contributes to the least amount of light in the sky at this time between about 1 AM and 4:30 AM. The new moon occurs on June 3, a Tuesday. The best dates for an Israeli attack taking a northern route happen during the first half of the window, May 30 (a Friday) to June 4. Because US forces are closer and do not need to fly over third countries, they have pretty much the whole window available whereas the second half of the window is very problematic for the Israelis. Other factors to keep in mind are how many US carriers remain in the region, where Petraeus is and what his job title is, and the ongoing withdrawal of US ground forces in Iraq due to the exhaustion of the “surge”.
demi, I don’t know if my soul is ‘good’, as for the rest, I can only agree.
My vitrol, such as it is, is not directed toward those here in attendence, but rather toward those who would destroy all that I cherish and care about.
Those who would use the military (and those ambitious ‘Brass’ who would happily go along) to help in that destruction are my especial targets.
For the ‘foot-soldiers’ both military and civilian who are caught up (as are we all) I have nothing but concern …
As to the ‘leadership’, including the ‘loyal’ opposition (many of whom are invested in the military-industrial complex, literally) I have nothing but contempt …
Got here too late to participate, but this is a great post! There. I said it and I’m glad.
Soviet Union: the first Cold War empire to collapse from unsustainable military spending.
According to Chalmers Johnson, the American empire will be the next.
This is a little frightening. Any idea how reliable the source is?
Way down in EPU hell but I just have to reinforce this sentiment.
Fuck the VFW.
Way, way back there! When I first saw the story about Riper and the wargame, I immediately thought of Len Deighton’s ‘Billion Dollar Brain’. Of course, there it was a British wargame under NATO(US) command and the opposition forces commander was in charge of Soviet units. Otherwise, strikingly similar. There is always a question about whether the side represented by the imaginative wargamer will actually use such unusual tactics (since professional militaries are generally pretty similar in how they think). In this case, though, I would expect the Iranian leaders to use their assets as best possible. To plan for them to fight the way you want them to is asinine. Of course, to invade Iraq without any sort of contingency planning was equally asinine, so I won’t make any predictions.
God, I wish we didn’t have a ‘faith-based’ government.
Are you expecting the Bush adm. to apply reality to this situation?