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	<title>Comments on: FBI Needs Outside Supervision of National Security Letters</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/19/fbi-needs-outside-supervision-of-national-security-letters/</link>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/19/fbi-needs-outside-supervision-of-national-security-letters/#comment-1452475</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 18:46:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/19/fbi-needs-outside-supervision-of-national-security-letters/#comment-1452475</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;78 - this is deep EPU, but I think we are talking about two different things.  It is my understanding that in at least one instance, agents went to FISC with a request for an order that was turned down by the FISC.  The court ruled that FBI could not get access to what FBI wanted, bc it would violate the First Amendment to allow the invasions FBI wanted to undertake.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So FBI just took that ruling - that the First Amendment prevented them for accessing that information - and went around the court with NSLs to get the information anyway.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Most importantly, the IG also found that the FBI had used NSLs to circumvent the FISA Court’s refusal to authorize surveillance on First Amendment grounds.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So what I was trying to say in response to your point about often FBI might use unrestricted access to NSLs with no oversight and no boudnaries - because it is just easier than sitting down and trying to figure out how to do it right, was that yes, that may be the case but in some cases the use of NSLs was specifically to defy a FISC court order that FBI was not entitled to collect the information they wanted.   &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I do understand the point, too, about people who have applications turned down having career issues, but I think that was probably much more true years ago than it is today.  For that matter, the Townsend tie to the huge FISC investigation into untruthful FBI affidavits and what has been alleged to be her key role didn’t seem to hurt her much.  Show one lawyer in particular who has been punished in any way whatsoever for any of the many lies to the courts and the people during the Bush administration.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Falsified translations, destruction of evidence, wrongful invocations of privilege to cover up criminal activity, wrongful solicitation of and participation in criminal activity, etc. - as long as you own a pair of Bush underoos, you walk bc the Bush DOJ won’t prosecute their own.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>78 &#8211; this is deep EPU, but I think we are talking about two different things.  It is my understanding that in at least one instance, agents went to FISC with a request for an order that was turned down by the FISC.  The court ruled that FBI could not get access to what FBI wanted, bc it would violate the First Amendment to allow the invasions FBI wanted to undertake.</p>
<p>So FBI just took that ruling &#8211; that the First Amendment prevented them for accessing that information &#8211; and went around the court with NSLs to get the information anyway.</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Most importantly, the IG also found that the FBI had used NSLs to circumvent the FISA Court’s refusal to authorize surveillance on First Amendment grounds.</em></p>
</blockquote>
<p>So what I was trying to say in response to your point about often FBI might use unrestricted access to NSLs with no oversight and no boudnaries &#8211; because it is just easier than sitting down and trying to figure out how to do it right, was that yes, that may be the case but in some cases the use of NSLs was specifically to defy a FISC court order that FBI was not entitled to collect the information they wanted.   </p>
<p>I do understand the point, too, about people who have applications turned down having career issues, but I think that was probably much more true years ago than it is today.  For that matter, the Townsend tie to the huge FISC investigation into untruthful FBI affidavits and what has been alleged to be her key role didn’t seem to hurt her much.  Show one lawyer in particular who has been punished in any way whatsoever for any of the many lies to the courts and the people during the Bush administration.  </p>
<p>Falsified translations, destruction of evidence, wrongful invocations of privilege to cover up criminal activity, wrongful solicitation of and participation in criminal activity, etc. &#8211; as long as you own a pair of Bush underoos, you walk bc the Bush DOJ won’t prosecute their own.</p>
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		<title>By: Praedor</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/19/fbi-needs-outside-supervision-of-national-security-letters/#comment-1452438</link>
		<dc:creator>Praedor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 18:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/19/fbi-needs-outside-supervision-of-national-security-letters/#comment-1452438</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I play with freenet now and again - it can be slow-ish, which is the cost of privacy protection/anonymizer systems.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Another thing to consider is &lt;a href=&quot;http://tor.eff.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Tor&lt;/a&gt; from our GOOD friends at the Electronic Frontier Foundation.  It too is often relatively slow but traffic is encrypted from your computer to the 3rd computer in the string of anonymizers from which the packets then are decrypted and sent along their way to the destination.  Reply packets are then encrypted backwards to you.  The end site cannot determine where you actually are and your ISP cannot determine what sites your are surfing.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I play with freenet now and again &#8211; it can be slow-ish, which is the cost of privacy protection/anonymizer systems.</p>
<p>Another thing to consider is <a href="http://tor.eff.org" rel="nofollow">Tor</a> from our GOOD friends at the Electronic Frontier Foundation.  It too is often relatively slow but traffic is encrypted from your computer to the 3rd computer in the string of anonymizers from which the packets then are decrypted and sent along their way to the destination.  Reply packets are then encrypted backwards to you.  The end site cannot determine where you actually are and your ISP cannot determine what sites your are surfing.</p>
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		<title>By: tw3k</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/19/fbi-needs-outside-supervision-of-national-security-letters/#comment-1452398</link>
		<dc:creator>tw3k</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 17:29:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/19/fbi-needs-outside-supervision-of-national-security-letters/#comment-1452398</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;looks kinda like &lt;a href=&quot;http://freenetproject.org/whatis.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a web-based encrypted peer-to-peer network&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;need to give it a try later.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>looks kinda like <a href="http://freenetproject.org/whatis.html" rel="nofollow">a web-based encrypted peer-to-peer network</a>.</p>
<p>need to give it a try later.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/19/fbi-needs-outside-supervision-of-national-security-letters/#comment-1452394</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 17:19:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/19/fbi-needs-outside-supervision-of-national-security-letters/#comment-1452394</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;yeah, i linked to that one yesterday, but i hadn’t read any of the comments.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yeah, i linked to that one yesterday, but i hadn’t read any of the comments.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/19/fbi-needs-outside-supervision-of-national-security-letters/#comment-1452393</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 17:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/19/fbi-needs-outside-supervision-of-national-security-letters/#comment-1452393</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;how does that work? is it like a VPN in that charter won’t have access to the content of email/files/etc?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>how does that work? is it like a VPN in that charter won’t have access to the content of email/files/etc?</p>
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		<title>By: tw3k</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/19/fbi-needs-outside-supervision-of-national-security-letters/#comment-1452389</link>
		<dc:creator>tw3k</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 17:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/19/fbi-needs-outside-supervision-of-national-security-letters/#comment-1452389</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;or &lt;a href=&quot;http://freenetproject.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Freenet Project&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>or <a href="http://freenetproject.org/" rel="nofollow">The Freenet Project</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bilbo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/19/fbi-needs-outside-supervision-of-national-security-letters/#comment-1452388</link>
		<dc:creator>Bilbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 17:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/19/fbi-needs-outside-supervision-of-national-security-letters/#comment-1452388</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Selise, you’ve probably seen this NYT piece already, but just in case:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/charter-will-monitor-customers-web-surfing-to-target-ads/?ref=technology&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Charter Will Monitor Customers’ Web Surfing to Target Ads&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Some of the reader comments are also edifying.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Selise, you’ve probably seen this NYT piece already, but just in case:</p>
<p><a href="http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/charter-will-monitor-customers-web-surfing-to-target-ads/?ref=technology" rel="nofollow">Charter Will Monitor Customers’ Web Surfing to Target Ads</a></p>
<p>Some of the reader comments are also edifying.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/19/fbi-needs-outside-supervision-of-national-security-letters/#comment-1452386</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 16:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/19/fbi-needs-outside-supervision-of-national-security-letters/#comment-1452386</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;bilbo - yep. that’s why i think i should cancel my service instead of waiting it out. it’s the best way i have to send a message.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;tw3k - i’ve still got my speakeasy account, i’ll just go back to that at least for now - i only signed up with charter this year because there was a fantastic deal that included basic tv (local and c-span1&amp;2) for $5.99/mo. speakeasy is pretty expensive though… not really sure what the best option is.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;bilbo - good for markey. i think it helps that this charter “test” is in MA, as is he - he’s bound to hear for pissed off local folks. in fact, now that i think about it, i should call my congress critter’s office too to complain about charter.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bilbo &#8211; yep. that’s why i think i should cancel my service instead of waiting it out. it’s the best way i have to send a message.</p>
<p>tw3k &#8211; i’ve still got my speakeasy account, i’ll just go back to that at least for now &#8211; i only signed up with charter this year because there was a fantastic deal that included basic tv (local and c-span1&amp;2) for $5.99/mo. speakeasy is pretty expensive though… not really sure what the best option is.</p>
<p>bilbo &#8211; good for markey. i think it helps that this charter “test” is in MA, as is he &#8211; he’s bound to hear for pissed off local folks. in fact, now that i think about it, i should call my congress critter’s office too to complain about charter.</p>
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		<title>By: Bilbo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/19/fbi-needs-outside-supervision-of-national-security-letters/#comment-1452385</link>
		<dc:creator>Bilbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 16:33:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/19/fbi-needs-outside-supervision-of-national-security-letters/#comment-1452385</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Selise, here’s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Congressmen-Want-To-Chat-With-Charter-Over-Privacy-94544?nocomment=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a little good news&lt;/a&gt; anyway.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Selise, here’s <a href="http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Congressmen-Want-To-Chat-With-Charter-Over-Privacy-94544?nocomment=1" rel="nofollow">a little good news</a> anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: tw3k</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/19/fbi-needs-outside-supervision-of-national-security-letters/#comment-1452384</link>
		<dc:creator>tw3k</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 16:33:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/19/fbi-needs-outside-supervision-of-national-security-letters/#comment-1452384</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;What ISP are you going to use? I want to dump verizon.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What ISP are you going to use? I want to dump verizon.</p>
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