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	<title>Comments on: Tunnels of the Underclass</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/17/tunnels-of-the-underclass/</link>
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		<title>By: ekunin</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/17/tunnels-of-the-underclass/#comment-1450894</link>
		<dc:creator>ekunin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 16:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/17/tunnels-of-the-underclass/#comment-1450894</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Are you ready for utopia, the classless, moneyless society? Doubt it. The urge to class (hierarchy) runs deep. Most jobs are crap having nothing to do with providing food, clothing, shelter or anything useful. The biggest payoffs shuffle paper, do LBO’s, outsource and downsize. Clearly capitalism and hierarchy cannot provide jobs, in tunnel or out, for everyone who wants one.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So are you ready for the alternative, equality? Utopia gets by with as few jobs as possible so people do as they please which means nothing if they are so inclined, but would you settle for one style of motor vehicle rather than the status laden hundreds of models we now have? Equality means no money and no desire to establish difference from your fellows. It means cooperation, contributing to the group, rather than trying to invent something major and going to the head of the class. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Derrick Bell, in “Faces at the Bottom of the Well” claims that bigotry can never depart because low class whites cannot see themselves as the bottom of the barrel. That’s where blacks come in.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We suffer from a mental disorder which has us trying to establish difference from our fellows, when difference is impossible. This does not mean we are identical. We come in different sizes, colors, and abilities, but we are equal in that we, rich and poor, die and it is doubtful that anything accomplished in this life has anything to do with what comes later. As physicians we must heal ourselves before we can heal anyone else.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you ready for utopia, the classless, moneyless society? Doubt it. The urge to class (hierarchy) runs deep. Most jobs are crap having nothing to do with providing food, clothing, shelter or anything useful. The biggest payoffs shuffle paper, do LBO’s, outsource and downsize. Clearly capitalism and hierarchy cannot provide jobs, in tunnel or out, for everyone who wants one.</p>
<p>So are you ready for the alternative, equality? Utopia gets by with as few jobs as possible so people do as they please which means nothing if they are so inclined, but would you settle for one style of motor vehicle rather than the status laden hundreds of models we now have? Equality means no money and no desire to establish difference from your fellows. It means cooperation, contributing to the group, rather than trying to invent something major and going to the head of the class. </p>
<p>Derrick Bell, in “Faces at the Bottom of the Well” claims that bigotry can never depart because low class whites cannot see themselves as the bottom of the barrel. That’s where blacks come in.</p>
<p>We suffer from a mental disorder which has us trying to establish difference from our fellows, when difference is impossible. This does not mean we are identical. We come in different sizes, colors, and abilities, but we are equal in that we, rich and poor, die and it is doubtful that anything accomplished in this life has anything to do with what comes later. As physicians we must heal ourselves before we can heal anyone else.</p>
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		<title>By: bystander</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/17/tunnels-of-the-underclass/#comment-1450875</link>
		<dc:creator>bystander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 14:19:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/17/tunnels-of-the-underclass/#comment-1450875</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;And so I listen to John Edwards and I know why he lost twice. People don’t like you when you make them look at the other side, at the dark fate that may await them one day if they’re a little unlucky; if their company downsizes, if they’re 45 and the company wants a youngster, or if some guy in China is willing to do their job for one-tenth the wage.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Precisely.  It all cuts too close to the bone.  “Please let it not pertain to me, and even if it does, I cannot bear to here you say so.”  You’ve articulated this well.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And so I listen to John Edwards and I know why he lost twice. People don’t like you when you make them look at the other side, at the dark fate that may await them one day if they’re a little unlucky; if their company downsizes, if they’re 45 and the company wants a youngster, or if some guy in China is willing to do their job for one-tenth the wage.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Precisely.  It all cuts too close to the bone.  “Please let it not pertain to me, and even if it does, I cannot bear to here you say so.”  You’ve articulated this well.</p>
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		<title>By: Crosstimbers</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/17/tunnels-of-the-underclass/#comment-1450748</link>
		<dc:creator>Crosstimbers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 11:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/17/tunnels-of-the-underclass/#comment-1450748</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Very fine post, Ian.  You’ve described the problem sincerely and movingly. A symbolic tunnel of which you might not be aware underlies Jefferson’s Montecello.  It seemed to me to symbolize both his inventiveness and the delimma in his beliefs.  It is a system of sewage tunnels which extend vertically from the house, and then horizontally from the center of the hill on which the house sits, to the outer perimeter of the hill on which the house sits.  With in the horizontal tunnels is a system of rails and rope drawn carts.  Defecation drops from the lovely Montecello down to a cart on the rail, and the cart is drawn by the rope system to the tunnel opening farther down the hill.  Slaves emptied the carts, a hundred yards or so away from the house and out of sight down the hill.  It somehow symbolizes the whole delimma of the goal of equality, even in the best of societies and individuals.  I don’t know the answer, but your post was excellent and, having experienced much of what you describe, I’ll have to think about it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very fine post, Ian.  You’ve described the problem sincerely and movingly. A symbolic tunnel of which you might not be aware underlies Jefferson’s Montecello.  It seemed to me to symbolize both his inventiveness and the delimma in his beliefs.  It is a system of sewage tunnels which extend vertically from the house, and then horizontally from the center of the hill on which the house sits, to the outer perimeter of the hill on which the house sits.  With in the horizontal tunnels is a system of rails and rope drawn carts.  Defecation drops from the lovely Montecello down to a cart on the rail, and the cart is drawn by the rope system to the tunnel opening farther down the hill.  Slaves emptied the carts, a hundred yards or so away from the house and out of sight down the hill.  It somehow symbolizes the whole delimma of the goal of equality, even in the best of societies and individuals.  I don’t know the answer, but your post was excellent and, having experienced much of what you describe, I’ll have to think about it.</p>
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		<title>By: OaktownGirl</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/17/tunnels-of-the-underclass/#comment-1450696</link>
		<dc:creator>OaktownGirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 06:54:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/17/tunnels-of-the-underclass/#comment-1450696</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ian, wonderful post, as always. I am and have been a huge Edwards supporter, and hope he’ll be offered and accept the position of Attorney General - a post where I think he could do a hell of a lot of good.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I wonder if you’ve seen this related economics and class post by Carl Bloice from the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.blackcommentator.com/277/277_lm_working_class_is_back_cover.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Black Commentator&lt;/a&gt;?  (Scroll down just a bit to read article). It speaks to my anger and frustration as an African American at being lumped into one monolithic group by the media. As far as this Primary season goes, amazingly enough, somehow we aren’t women, we aren’t blue collar, and we certainly aren’t “hard working”. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(I hope the link worked. It didn’t show up in the “preview”)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian, wonderful post, as always. I am and have been a huge Edwards supporter, and hope he’ll be offered and accept the position of Attorney General &#8211; a post where I think he could do a hell of a lot of good.</p>
<p>I wonder if you’ve seen this related economics and class post by Carl Bloice from the <a href="http://www.blackcommentator.com/277/277_lm_working_class_is_back_cover.html" rel="nofollow">Black Commentator</a>?  (Scroll down just a bit to read article). It speaks to my anger and frustration as an African American at being lumped into one monolithic group by the media. As far as this Primary season goes, amazingly enough, somehow we aren’t women, we aren’t blue collar, and we certainly aren’t “hard working”. </p>
<p>(I hope the link worked. It didn’t show up in the “preview”)</p>
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		<title>By: Watson</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/17/tunnels-of-the-underclass/#comment-1450633</link>
		<dc:creator>Watson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 05:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/17/tunnels-of-the-underclass/#comment-1450633</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Bravo, Ian.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We need to get to the point where we see income inequality as morally wrong and socially dysfunctional.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bravo, Ian.</p>
<p>We need to get to the point where we see income inequality as morally wrong and socially dysfunctional.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Welsh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/17/tunnels-of-the-underclass/#comment-1450461</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Welsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 04:32:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/17/tunnels-of-the-underclass/#comment-1450461</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Freedom to vote, doesn’t mean much to people who are scared all the time that they might lose their home, or starve.  It’s when people really start to lose things, when they feel they have nothing left to lose, that suddenly they get real picky about having the right to vote.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Freedom to vote, doesn’t mean much to people who are scared all the time that they might lose their home, or starve.  It’s when people really start to lose things, when they feel they have nothing left to lose, that suddenly they get real picky about having the right to vote.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Welsh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/17/tunnels-of-the-underclass/#comment-1450455</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Welsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 04:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/17/tunnels-of-the-underclass/#comment-1450455</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Exactly.  Spread a network of contacts through the company (and beyond) and you can get things done.  I was very good at that also, though I had too many clashes with senior management.  (Good with lower management and with peers.  But I don’t “pay respect” very well to people I don’t feel deserve it.  Foolish of me, and I mean it sincerely.)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly.  Spread a network of contacts through the company (and beyond) and you can get things done.  I was very good at that also, though I had too many clashes with senior management.  (Good with lower management and with peers.  But I don’t “pay respect” very well to people I don’t feel deserve it.  Foolish of me, and I mean it sincerely.)</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Welsh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/17/tunnels-of-the-underclass/#comment-1450440</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Welsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 04:24:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/17/tunnels-of-the-underclass/#comment-1450440</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;My rules:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;1) if I ask someone to stay late, I stay until the job’s done.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;2) If they need permission from their boss, I will get it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;3) if anyone gets in their way doing the job I asked them to do, or complains they are doing something for me rather than someone else, they are to let me know and I will deal with it and/or remove the obstacle.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;3a) any blame is to be deflected onto me.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;4) If you do good work for me I will praise you to your boss, and I will praise you publicly in front of your peers.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;5) Whatever you need to get the job done, you tell me and I will get it for you. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I rarely had any trouble getting folks to do me favors, stay late, etc…  In fact, I daresay I could get more people to stay late to help me than most of the supervisors, despite not having formal authority (senior, but not in line of command.)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My rules:</p>
<p>1) if I ask someone to stay late, I stay until the job’s done.</p>
<p>2) If they need permission from their boss, I will get it.</p>
<p>3) if anyone gets in their way doing the job I asked them to do, or complains they are doing something for me rather than someone else, they are to let me know and I will deal with it and/or remove the obstacle.</p>
<p>3a) any blame is to be deflected onto me.</p>
<p>4) If you do good work for me I will praise you to your boss, and I will praise you publicly in front of your peers.</p>
<p>5) Whatever you need to get the job done, you tell me and I will get it for you. </p>
<p>I rarely had any trouble getting folks to do me favors, stay late, etc…  In fact, I daresay I could get more people to stay late to help me than most of the supervisors, despite not having formal authority (senior, but not in line of command.)</p>
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		<title>By: victoria</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/17/tunnels-of-the-underclass/#comment-1450321</link>
		<dc:creator>victoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 03:30:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/17/tunnels-of-the-underclass/#comment-1450321</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;And that’s why Al Gore is so hated in this country.  People don’t want to look global warming in the face.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And that’s why Al Gore is so hated in this country.  People don’t want to look global warming in the face.</p>
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		<title>By: bonkers</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/17/tunnels-of-the-underclass/#comment-1450250</link>
		<dc:creator>bonkers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 03:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/17/tunnels-of-the-underclass/#comment-1450250</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Fuck, dude.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;One of the all-time great posts of the blogosphere.  It’s like you crawled inside me head and transcribed me thoughts.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’ve always been fascinated with this interaction you describe.  I come from a long line of late night underground corridor walkers, and have started that way myself.  Not sure where it came from, but eventually ended up having the drive to start me own biz.  Now, I fluctuate between the worlds of nicely folded linen napkins and the washing machines below that wash them.  When a table busser comes by and takes my dirty plate now and we make eye contact, there’s a nod and an understanding of what’s going on.  They seem to sense I’m not like the others they’re serving that are bitching about their creme brulees.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’ve never understood why it so hard for so many to understand that we’re all in this boat together.  We all contribute to this grand system we call civilization.  Every aspect of this system has value.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thanks again for this fantastic insight.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fuck, dude.</p>
<p>One of the all-time great posts of the blogosphere.  It’s like you crawled inside me head and transcribed me thoughts.</p>
<p>I’ve always been fascinated with this interaction you describe.  I come from a long line of late night underground corridor walkers, and have started that way myself.  Not sure where it came from, but eventually ended up having the drive to start me own biz.  Now, I fluctuate between the worlds of nicely folded linen napkins and the washing machines below that wash them.  When a table busser comes by and takes my dirty plate now and we make eye contact, there’s a nod and an understanding of what’s going on.  They seem to sense I’m not like the others they’re serving that are bitching about their creme brulees.</p>
<p>I’ve never understood why it so hard for so many to understand that we’re all in this boat together.  We all contribute to this grand system we call civilization.  Every aspect of this system has value.</p>
<p>Thanks again for this fantastic insight.</p>
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