Morley, Mike, Welcome to the Lake.

Greetings, gentlemen! I’m looking forward to this, and hope we get a great turnout.

Welcome to FDL Morley and Mike

And welcome to you as well Sara. Thanks for hosting this.

we are looking forward to the conversation.
Morley Winograd

By way of setting up the background, I’m interested in knowing how you first discovered S&H, and how you’ve applied these theories in your work so far.

Thanks, Bev. We’re looking forward to an interesting session.

Mike said something yesterday that suggested you’d been working with these ideas since the 70s — long before they were published for the mass audience. That intrigued me.

I have not had an opportunity to read your book but would just like to say that as a Boomer who has followed politics all my life, I can only hope and pray that we are leaving the politics-as-practiced-by-Nixon era.

I first read Generations right after it was published in the late 80s and pointed it out to Morley as an amazing book that seemed to explain very much about American history and society. We both vowed at that point to apply the S & H theory to our own particular area of interest–politics.

your long national nightmare is over. Nixonland book just out suggests it will never end. We say it ends this year.
Morley

Dakine, if these gentlemen are right, we have a lot to look forward to.

M&M, how do you see the Millennials changing our politics in the decade or two ahead?

I’m a tailend boomer and was generally apathetic about politics until now. you seem to have a hopeful message for the mess we’re in. welcome to the lake.

We obviously were not aware of the Strauss and Howe theories in the 70s, but I wrote by doctoral thesis about political realignments. Poltical scientist often suggest that realignments are produced by a new generation entering the electorate. It all became even clearer after reading Generations and will become even more so in 2008 and beyond, when the Millenial Generation takes US poltics in a new direction.

Morley, I’m not sure that’s entirely accurate. Rick is my boss, friend, and mentor; and I know that he’s very concerned about getting that consensus re-made. As an Xer, though, he’s also a bit cynical about the possibility that could happen. But it’s a conversation you might want to have with him personally.

We have very hopeful message, but it’s really not ours. It’s the pattern of US history. Every 80 years a new civic generation comes of age to help unify America and resolve basic economic issues that had been deferred in the social issue divisions of the previous era.

The thing that struck me about your argument is just how very different this generation is from the previous two. It’s like they’re going to bring us most of what we’ve always said we wanted…but they’re going to do it in ways we may not understand or like in the short run.

And it seems to me that we Boomers have a choice to make: we can either empower them, or thwart them.

To use S&H terms, we are moving out of an “idealist” era, dominated by Boomers, into a “civic” era, dominated by Millennials. This will result in major shift in political campaigns, coalitions and public policy. For politics, it will be the end of divisive, hot rhetoric shouted on 30 second TV commercials. that stopped working in 2006, as we describe in our book. Most notable example for us in CA was defeat of Pombo by McNerny. But Republicans are still trying those tactics as recently as last week in Miss. and of course losing much to their surprise. The new politics, to use a bad phrase, will involve political conversations on the web through social networks and blogs that invite interaction and involvement by grass/Net roots. The messages that work in that medium are ones of unity and hope–appeals that resonate particularly well with civic-oriented Millennials who have been taught to play nice and look for win-win solutions for the entire group for their entire lives. With the Millennial generation’s size and unity, and facility with Net communications, this type of politics will be the winning message in the future.
Morley

That’s interesting, Sara. Based on an op. ed. that he wrote in the Washington Post and that appeared opposite ours on Feb. 3, that seems to be his message. But, actually, I just sent Rick an email today to introduce ourselves and, hopefully, be able to carry on the conversation, pointing to areas where we agree (of which there seem to be many) and where we may differ.

This is so fascinating and inspirational!!

Thank you.

I see the difference in my audience, for sure.

As a futures blogger, I occasionally put out best-case and worst-case scenarios for various things. The best-case ones invariably annoy Boomer and X readers, whose cynicism won’t let them trust that the best case is possible. But the younger readers get them, and take them to heart.

Worst-case scenarios are just the opposite. For the readers over 35 or so, I’m just naming nightmares they’ve already had. The younger ones think it’s possible, but don’t think they’re nearly as likely.

“empmower or thwart” is precisely the choice facing Dems in Denver. With Obama winning 2/3 of the votes of this generation, the Democrats better be sure the decisions they make on the nominee–and VP–are seen by Millennials as in keeping with the promises of hope and change that brought them into the group in the first place. Otherwise they could lose 40 years of political opportunity. Millennials identify with Dems over Reps by 2:1 margin–and are the first generation where more self-identify as Liberal vs. Conservative in decades. Given that predisposition, Dems need to respond to their way of thinking about and behaving in the world in order to be sure those who vote in 2008 stay loyal throughout their entire lives.

What do we need to do to make that happen?

Unfortunately, one problem with that is so many of the folks in power in Washington are older than Boomers and have no clue how to relinquish anything where they’re not in charge and running the show.

Kind of interesting…aren’t we in the “Age of Aquarius” now? I wonder if the generational “cycles” somehow also correspond to the planets. (okay, I know, I know…but still)….

Hi Sara thanks for hosting this book salon, and Hi Morley and Michael. I think you write a book of hope, and like LS said, inspiration. Thanks for that.

Do you think the Iraq War will affect the millennial generation the way the Vietnam War has affected the baby boomers?

That makes sense. Of course, this could be a matter of self-fulfilling prophecies. If you think it’s going to be bad, it probably will be. If you think it might be good, there’s a decent chance it will be. Boomers and X’ers think politics is corrupt and won’t accomplish anything and aren’t surprised when it doesn’t. Civic generations like the GI’s and Millennials are optimistic and will work to make good things happen.

Dakine, I think the Boomers — especially the ‘43-’55 cohort, the first half of the generation — have that problem, too. Right and left, they’re very confrontational, and prone to my-way-or-the-highway thinking. Compromise has never been their strong suit.

Michael, what happens if they get out there and try to change things — and it doesn’t quite go right for them?

Is the Millennial outlook ALL about “means” — political process, involvement, etc. — or is there also a general tendency in “ends” — progressive ideas, egalitarianism, pacifism, or the like?

If the answer is yes, is this part of the nature of being a Millennial, or is it just happenstance, the result of the Millennials being a product of this specific era?

Boomers have tried to use politics to impose their values and ideology upon the body politic. Because they are such a divided generation, at the national level this has led to gridlock for 40 years. But in coming to the Dem convention we have only to deal with one half of the Boomer ideological divide. Unfortunately, the “My way or the highway” attitude still prevails within “our Boomers” and the need for compromise, or even letting the other side’s ideas prevail is not something they are willing to acknowledge. Furthermore, most of the party’s leadership, especially superdelegates, are Boomers. Only three Sdelegates are Millennials and Xers remain a distinct minority in the group. So now they will have to do what they are generationally disinclined to do–let the other guy win. At the same time, the Millennials need to do something they aren’t used to doing. They are going to have to open up their group and let people who think differently than they do inside it. So VP may have to be a candidate who can attract older voters, not with conservative messages, but with an understanding of Boomer values, particularly female Boomers who are much more likely to be Dem/progressive. And Millennials will have to embrace that person as being a help to their candidate, Obama, not a sellout. But whatever Dems do they cannot make any decisions in Denver that don’t look like they are fair. Having taught an entire generation to play by the rules, the last thing Dems can afford to do is execute any cynical moves that ignore the rules in order to accomplish some private agenda.
Morley

Not all of us of course (’52). But so many of us watched our government lie to us, shoot us, let loose dogs on US citizens, and saw our heros used as targets.

So we tended to build walls for self protection. While wanting to believe the best, we learned from hard experience to expect the worst out of all of the institutions. And unfortunately, usually had those expectations lived down to.

Thanks so much for being here today, Michael and Morely.

I’m curious — did Barney teach anyone anything that Mr. Rogers or Sesame Street didn’t? And was it a more powerful influence than, say, Grand Theft Auto or Doom?

I wonder if the Millenials are so hopeful because the political consciousness was nurtured in a crucible of opposition to GOP hegemony. We experienced it online, where as long as everyone was united against Bush it blurred distinctions between those on the left. But over time, we have watched as the “politics of hope” became the “politics of I hope you fucking die” (as Pach likes to call it). While I don’t think the campaigns themselves were near as brutal as those I’ve watched in the past, their partisan followers are extraordinarily — well, let’s just say “not consensus building.”

It’s not going to be all beer and skittles. As Sara notes, how do you think the Millenials are going to take disappointment? There’s a good chance that there’s going to be a lot of it. From what I’ve observed, they can be appealed to by positive messaging, but when things don’t go their way, they have a real taste for confrontation.

Both wars are equally important to the Boomers and Millennials. However, each generation reacts very differently to the war. For those Boomers who opposed the Vietnam war, it was seen as immoral. They opposed the war for pacifistic reasons and took to the streets to fight it. For the equally large number of Millenials who oppose the Iraq war, it is seen as stupid and poorly managed, but not necessarily immoral. As a result of 9/11, Millennials are very concerned with national security and believe that the Iraq war and the way the Bush administration has fought it have taken attention off the bigger overall issue of Islamic extremism. In addition, Millennials are using the electoral system to end the war.

I asked the above question because it reflects what I’m hearing from Boomer parents whose Millennial kids are turning out big time for Obama. The parents are terrified: they remember being that excited when they were young — but also the pain of watching those dreams get shattered. They don’t want that happening to their kids, so they’re trying to talk them down from their ideals before they get hurt.

I’ve said that the “cult of Obama” talk was in large part fueled by this fear.

In addition to the shift in attitude toward the electoral process do you see the Millennials becoming more involved as non-elected civil servants, replacing the retiring Boomers, and working within the system to make it more responsive to the needs of the public rather than maintaining the status quo?

My copy of the book just arrived today, and I haven’t yet had a chance to get to it — but I’m looking forward to it. I did a lot of work with Strauss and Howe for my dissertation (in religion), and so I was glad to see you two appear on the “upcoming Book Salon” guest list!

The admissions office at Beloit College recognized the potential for problems in communications and historical awareness when Boomer faculty are teaching Millennial freshmen. To help the faculty recognize the differences in historical awareness, they put out a “mindset list” each fall. The Fall 2006 list, probing the mindset of the entering students (born around 1988 or so), includes nuggets like these:

1. The Soviet Union has never existed and therefore is about as scary as the student union.
2. They have known only two presidents.
3. For most of their lives, major U.S. airlines have been bankrupt.
6. There has always been only one Germany.
9. A stained blue dress is as famous to their generation as a third-rate burglary was to their parents’.
12. Smoking has never been permitted on U.S. airlines.
16. DNA fingerprinting has always been admissible evidence in court.
17. They grew up pushing their own miniature shopping carts in the supermarket.
19. “Google” has always been a verb.
20. Text messaging is their e-mail.
22. Mr. Rogers, not Walter Cronkite, has always been the most trusted man in America.
28. Carbon copies are oddities found in their grandparents’ attics.
30. Non-denominational mega-churches have always been the fastest growing. religious organizations in the U.S.
37. Brides have always worn white for a first, second, or third wedding.
41. They have always been able to watch wars and revolutions live on television.
48. Most of them have never had the chance to eat bad airline food.
50. The really rich have regularly expressed exuberance with outlandish birthday parties.
53. They have always preferred going out in groups as opposed to dating.
54. There have always been live organ donors.
55. They have always had access to their own credit cards.
62. Acura, Lexus, and Infiniti have always been luxury cars of choice.
63. Television stations have never concluded the broadcast day with the national anthem.
64. LoJack transmitters have always been finding lost cars.
68. “Outing” has always been a threat.
70. They have always “dissed” what they don’t like.
71. The U.S. has always been studying global warming to confirm its existence.
72. Richard M. Daley has always been the mayor of Chicago.
75. Professional athletes have always competed in the Olympics.

Two years ago, I heard a commercial for a GOP candidate in CA that, while trying to reach younger voters, made repeated reference to Ed McMahon and his Tonight Show routines with Johnny Carson.

He did not win.

Very true.

In the words of a Boomer era song, we expect Millennials, as a civic generation, to “keep on a keepin’ on” if things don’t always go their way. They will just continue to work with their peers until they can make things go right. But, given the sheer size and dynamism of this generation, we don’t expect many things to not go their way over the next four decades. They will shape America as surely and completely as the GI Generation did in the 1940s and 1950s.

Morley, do you see Gen X playing a role in smoothing out the disconnect between the two generations? S&H have pointed out that previous Nomad generations played this role in earlier cycles. The Lost Generation were the practical, sane managers who ran interference between the Missionary elders and the GI generation during the last crisis. They were the grizzled sarges and beloved generals and git-er-done managers for the crisis. They taught the kids how to make it work.

I’m the boomer parent of a gen-x/millenial bridge child, and a true millenial. It is so exciting to hang around and talk to them and their friends (20-somethings). I have great hope for the future because of the energy and enthusiasm these folk are bringing to the process.

Morley and Michael, thank you for being here today. Your post perfectly describes the young ‘uns i know and gives me more hope than ever.

In a word, ‘yes.” This is a generation that’s very commited to public service on both a voluntary and paid basis.

Digg this post

The Lost Generation is also the only generation never to have had a member of its cohort in the Oval Office.

s the Millennial outlook ALL about “means” — political process, involvement, etc. — or is there also a general tendency in “ends” — progressive ideas, egalitarianism, pacifism, or the like?

There is a very distinct generational tendency on ends. Egalitarianism that you mentioned is one of them. In all civic eras, so it is a generational archetype tendency, America has reduced the level of economic inequality that resulted from the less government, laissez faire economic policies of the preceding idealist era. Ex: 1929, wealthiest 1% owned 50% of nation’s wealth. 1949, post FDR, they owned 30%. Its now 45% and rising but will fall again after Civic era/Dem victories at all levels in 2008. We will see national health insurance ,mandatory national service (not a draft) in exchange for college tuition aid and a strong environmental agenda from fed. government from the influence of this generation. But you won’t see pacifism. (See Mike’s comments). Seared by 9/11 and overly protected by their parents, this generation searches for safety at all times and are very pro-uniform, be it the military or police/fire.

The shift in means comes from the particular nature of the communication technology–social networks–that this generation uses to organize itself. That opens up the possibility of the end of corporate special interest money influence in DC. But the ends Millennials seek are very much of a “civic” generation nature. Think Lincoln and 1860s, FDR and 1932.
Morley

That’s not true, Peter. Both Eisenhower and Truman were Lost Gen. But the current Silents will indeed be the first if McCain loses.

(My Silent mother is deeply chagrined by this — she’s lived her whole damned life under the thumb of the GIs or the Boomers, and finds both groups annoying.)

Sorry — my mistake. I was thinking of the Silents, not the Lost.

It is true that Nomad generations have sometimes played that role. As you indicated, it was Lost Generation generals like Ike and Patton who intervened between the Missionary political leaders (FDR) and the GI troops. But, in fact, we believe that the more compromise oriented Silents may actually be better positioned to mediate between generations.

I can see that emphasis on security and uniforms as a real source of potential friction between the Xers, especially, and the Millennials. Nomad generations have always been the strongest advocates of personal liberty — they’re all about “leave me alone.” They’re not going to go gently into that security state — nor should they. S&H say it’s a big part of their generational duty to resist that authoritarian impulse from both the generation above and below them.

I don’t really know how to put this into words, but I’m convinced that my generation (born 1952) would not have had the same capacity to handle fast moving information with the facility that the young people do at this time in history. We were pragmatic and analytical — whereas, they flow through technological information processing rapidly and get to the solution seemingly effortlessly. It seems as if something in their brains is functioning in a different way and extremely rapidly. A kind of evolution if you will.

Actually, Sara, I believe it is the Silent Generation that has never had a president, although McCain could change that. Truman and, I believe, Ike were members of the Lost Generation.

Michael, that’s an interesting statement. It makes sense to me — but could you elaborate a bit on that?

Also: what happens when the Silents pass from the scene? They’re all over 65 now….

I think you were addressing Peter, since I made a similar point…

But you won’t see pacifism…. Seared by 9/11 and overly protected by their parents, this generation searches for safety at all times and are very pro-uniform, be it the military or police/fire.

Do you foresee this mindset evolving into a military command structure that in the not-so-distant future will again see the “might makes right” mentality take precedence over diplomatic options?

I’m curious — did Barney teach anyone anything that Mr. Rogers or Sesame Street didn’t? And was it a more powerful influence than, say, Grand Theft Auto or Doom?

Yes Barney is qualitatively different (and Millennials favorite show as toddlers). Mr. Rogers taught kids to feel good about themselves. Self esteem very much part of Barney so in that way similar. Sesame Street taught people to be respectful of people of different color, while still teaching kids to be able to discriminate intellectually (”which of these things is not like the other?”) Barney says even a purple dinosaur is the same as everyone else. The goal is not just to feel good about yourself but about the group. the group is best when its made up of different kinds of people (and animals) is another part of the message. So Millennials actually don’t see color or ethnic background when thinking about their friends. And as the most diverse generation in American history (40% non-white) with 20% having an immigrant parent, they don’t see any reason to make those distinctions. So Obama’s mixed race parentage and overseas experiences growing up make him, despite his Boomer birth date, a “typical Millennial.”

as for Doom and Grand Theft Auto, Millennial crime rates continue to go down, and now stand at the lowest levels for juvenile crime in nation’s history. There is no relationship that can be found based on social behavior and violent games “atmosphere.” The lessons Millennials absorbed came from their parents and the shows, like Barney, their parents encouraged them to watch.
Morley

You are right, Sara. Millennials are very partial to the uniformed services. Even though they oppose the Iraq war, they do not personally attack the military and couldn’t imagine calling cops, “pigs.” If there is a downside to civic eras, it is the short shrift occasionally given to the civil liberties of people and groups seen as potential threats to unity and the common cause (the suspension of the right to a writ of habeas corpus in the Civil War, the interment of Japanese-Americans in WW II, McCarthyism, etc).

I agree that a large number of millenials have technological fluency, but there is a huge number of high school drop-outs in that group. In Tennessee, the number of high school drop-outs has been in the range of 35-45% for years.

Isn’t there a class issue hiding in this generation?

LS, I’m sure this is true. I spent a dozen years in the computer game business, which may be responsible in part for this cognitive shift. You grow up playing “Sim City,” and your ability to understand networks and determine what’s relevant in a system’s behavior becomes second nature. The key to their ability to parse so much so fast is that they’re natural-born systems thinkers.

I don’t know if it is Xers or Ms, but people younger (cough) than myself feel more comfortable working in open spaces and having more chatter and noise around them…doesn’t seem to affect their concentration. quite the opposite. Libraries are reflecting this accommodation for conversation and gathering, more and more.

Just to add to your point about groups.

M&M, I’m curious about your designation of Obama as a Boomer. I’m a peak-year boomer - born in 1958. My husband and younger brothers were all born ‘61-’62, and they identify as Xers (and I’d agree — they’re too young to have any of he cultural reference points that unite Boomers). There’s a generational line between us that’s not there with people who are three — or six — years older than me.

Obama was born in ‘61. He’s very tail-end-Boomer, maybe — but I’d put him just as easily at the very leading edge of Gen X. He’s got a far more practical way about him, and shares few of the memories and history that link the two Boomer cohorts.

Thoughts?

One dynamic that Strauss and Howe discuss in their more recent work is that in contrast to earlier eras, now we see the current Millennial generation (heroic/civic archetype) taking the scene where there are significant numbers of the earlier heroic/civic archetype cohort — the GIs — still around. Jimmy Carter fits the bill as one of these earlier era GIs whose mindset resembles that of the Millennials.

What would you think of a convention speech by Carter, aimed at Millennials, to push what Sara described above as “a dramatic — and probably progressive — political realignment not unlike the one in 1932, which restored faith in government, ignited a new generation of young voters, and brought the country together to rebuild the nation and revitalize its civic life.”?

Sorry it took me awhile to get to this one. I am sure that Boomer parents are concerned that their Millennial kids will be disappointed and crushed by the experience just as the liberal half of the Boomer generation was. But Millennials are more tenancious. We believe that they will deal with adversity far better than their parents, more like their GI Generation grandparents who dealt with and perservered through the huge adversities of the Depression and WW II. Moreover, for a political perspective, unlike the Boomers, the Millennials are not divided along gender, ethnic, and ideological lines. Even if they don’t turn things around this year, they will soon.

Interesting. Yes they are more diverse than any American generation has been, and common sense tells me that this may be why they’re more accepting — they’ve grown up around people who are “different” than them. Is there any data to support the “Barney” theory?

Regarding Millennials’ attitudes toward uniforms and what they represent:

I have a friend (early Gen X) who consorts with a lot of Millennials, and he finds they chafe under the control of uniforms. These are kids whose notion of authority is “Those who tell me where I can’t skate, threaten me with arrest for my choice of recreational substance, and try to restrict how I interact with the music, video, games and other electronic media with which I define my very self.”

Is this just a skewed sample, or is there also a kernel of rebellion in the Millennials?

Good point. My Millennial daughter is graduating from (a very twee and preppy) high school in two weeks. They’re already planning the bonfire — she’s boxed up her kilts, blazers, and school tie, and can’t wait to watch it go up in smoke. (They’re going to dump the ashes on the headmaster’s car.)

I don’t think anyone’s ever gonna get that kid into a uniform again, ever, for any reason.

So the issue of technological sophistication is multi-dimensional. While everyone notices Millennial multi-tasking, scientific studies show they are just “chunking” things into smaller bites and processing them in “packets” rather than in long form. That skill is not related precisely to the high school drop out rate problem, you mentioned and which is very real problem for this generation. Best way to think about it is that the Millennials have a lot of latent skills, and which ones get brought to the surface and honed depend on their upbringing–both at home and at school. In the book, Millennial Makeover, we describe charter school in Detroit which takes kids in on non-discriminatory basis and graduates 90% of them from high school and 90% of those who graduate go to college. What they do is reach the kid through what interests them, not what NCLB prescribes as today’s lesson plan. Eventually they teach them all they will need to know to jump through the “get to college” hoops, but that’s not where they start.
Finally, studies by Harvard’s Institute of Politics between those Millennials attending 4 year colleges and those not shows very few differences in political attitudes. And other studies show Latino and AA Millennials more optimistic than white Millennials about their ability to do better than their parents. So again, the ingredients for success are present throughout the generation, both because of the way they learn and how they were raised. But creating educational systems that allow them to reach their potential is just one of the major “civic” tasks that this generation will demand get done and if older folks don’t do it, they will do it themselves (10% of Princeton graduates are signing up for “teach for America.”
Morley

We actually have lots of data to support the openess and tolerance of the Millennials. Demographically, 40% are non-white and 20% have at least one immigrant parent. They are the generation least bound by sex role distinctions; more than half of those now in professional schools are women. Attitudinally, 95% of white Millennials have no problems with interracial dating and 2/3 of all Millennials accept gay marriage. Large majorities of Millennials favor affirmative action and steps to citizenship for undocumented immigrants.

1958 is peak year? I feel like a tail end boomer withthe label and without the benefits…

Sara:
Well as you know it all depends on where you draw the line on generations. Using S&H method, Boomers end in 60 or at most 61. In our book and in our survey work, we use the more common definition of Boomers ending in 64. But I think the best distinction is one that some “late Boomers”, those born between 60 and 65 use, which is to call that “cusp” the Jones Generation. if you look up that website you will see those born in those years thinking and acting a lot like Sen. Obama.
morley

I know. But, IIRC, 58 was the biggest year of all.

That “tail-end boomer” thing seems to affect all of us born from ‘56 onward. The people born in first decade of the boom were utterly defined by the Vietnam War — they were either fighting in it, or fighting against it. Civil rights and early feminism were other battles — which is part of why it’s still all about conflict for them.

But those of us who graduated from high school in ‘74 and onward weren’t defined by that. We were too young for Woodstock, and most of the campus unrest was over by the time we got to college. Our high school years look like “Almost Famous” and “Dazed and Confused.” We were disco babies.

Some saecular theory folks call us “Generation Jones” (google it for an explanation). Neither here nor there. Practical idealists, more conciliatory. And we never quite belonged to the rest of the generation. Obama does fit this model of Boomer.

It’s notable to me that the oldest bloggers are Gen Jones, which may be because we were also the very first computer generation. You don’t find many bloggers over 50.

Close enough, but actually 1957 was the peak year for births in the Boomer era.

Thanks. I knew you’d know.

Millennials, like any other generation, will rebel. But unlike Boomers they don’t rebel against the civic or political establishment. Instead they seek to reinvigorate it. Instead they rebel, as other civic generations have done, against the culture that surrounds them. So celebrities, especially those who misbehave, are out. Parents are their friends and most likely to be named as their hero. The suits at RIAA who tried to take their music are also swept up in this general hostility to elites. But its a rebellion more focused on media and pop culture than on governmental leaders.
Morley

“But its a rebellion more focused on media and pop culture than on governmental leaders.”

That sounds like it has some serious implications for those who would market to them….

southern Dragon:
No, Millennials are in favor of a multilateralist approach to foreign affairs based on our survey data. that doesn’t make them pacifists. They see America and its values as playing an important and prominent role in the world. Some of that based on their own social network “friends” from around the world. But imposing ones beliefs through the use of force on the playground or around the world is not a Millennial trait. Its very much a typical behavior of idealist generations, the most recent of which are Boomers.
Morley

I find that rather disturbing. Will they not care about the type of people who lead the country? Non-involvement in gov’t? Do they seem to feel that they can just ignore it and it won’t bother them?

The notion of Jimmie Carter speaking at the Democratic National Convention as a link to the GI Generation is a good one. While I doubt many Millennials have much of a perception of him as president, he should be able to connect with that generation in a number of ways. First, his involvement with Habitat for Humanity speaks to the Millennials’ spirit of community service. Second, he seems to tacitly support Barack Obama, and like many members of older generations, says he does so because his Millennial grandchildren do. I would expect him to have a visible role at the convention.

“rebellion against pop culture” comment. Sara, you are right. for those of us in the “futures’s Business a must read in this area would be “millennials and Pop Culture.” Published by S&H last year but with a lot of help from Pete Markiewicz whose lectures on this subject can also be found on YouTube.
Morley

Twain:
you must have misunderstood. Not sure what you are referring to. If you read our other answers you will see that Millennials as a civic generation care most about who the government’s leaders are and what the government does.
They are very active politically, doubling, tripling and in some cases quadrupling previous levels of Gen X youth voting in this years primaries.
Morley

Twain, I hear Morley saying that they will care, very deeply, who runs the country. And they’ll be far more involved than the previous two generations, because they believe that government is a powerful tool for change.

We’re in the fix we’re in because both Boom and X did think they could ignore it. Millennials were brought up to trust authority, and follow trustworthy leadership. I think (though M&M may have found differently) that they’re also far more likely to actively reject unworthy authority — which is why they’re going 2-1 against the GOP these days. They’re followers, but they carefully pick who they follow, and want to know right up front where they’re being led.

Thanks for this, Morley. I’ll be sure to take a look at it, and look up those videos.

I’m also interested in Peterr, our guest who did his dissertation using S&H to look at religion. As a social futurist, religion is a huge part of what I’m interested in (and my thesis advisor is a religious futurist who teaches at Drew). Peterr, can we talk about this off-list?

thanks, I think you nailed it.

We were too young for Woodstock, and most of the campus unrest was over by the time we got to college.

No props for rebellious or rock and roll.

We were disco babies.

Uh, rrright.

And we never quite belonged to the rest of the generation

exactly what I meant to say. And following all of them into the job market was a little tough too as I recall. Not that I’m bitter or anything…I really wanted to be a DFH but was born too late.

It seems that many people (not necessarily tied to a generation) view their own identities as subsumed by a community of some sort: family, church or job, for example.

Is this true of Millennials, or do they see themselves as individuals, first? To what extent do Millennials self-identify as Millennials, different from those who came before?

The reason I ask is that the answer has a major bearing on how best to approach the Millennial voter, consumer, citizen, neighbor, etc.

You said “But it’s a rebellion more focused on media and pop culture than on gov’t leaders.”
Sorry, if I misunderstood.

And a question: What effect do you think the Iraq War will have on Ms, coming so early in the crisis and shaping their early years so strongly?

Sara,

It’s true, that the Millennials are followers now and they will reject current “leaders” who are not truthful, transparent, and oriented to the entire group. But some day they will, of course, be leaders. It will be interesting to see what their style will be when they are confronted with the next generation of unconventional, moralistic idealist just as the GI’s were when the Boomers came of age.

I’m laughing out loud. I’ve already warned my kids that, warm and wonderful as our relationship is, their relationships with their own get probably will be considerably more strained.

Certainly. I can get your email from one of the mods, and I’ll drop you a note.

Hello Mike and Morley, and thanks for this great intro, Sara.

I haven’t yet read your book, but what happened to all that inward-turning and nesting, seeking security, that we were promised by futurists and predictors after 9/11? Isn’t the civic engagement of the Millennials exactly the opposite of the sofa-bound home-bunnies we were told to expect, entranced with American Idol, Lost, sports on the big screen, and child-rearing? Women would return to their traditional roles in the home, men would become manly and stronger, blah blah.

And how might you account for the difference?

Thanks for joining us today. I look forward to reading your book!

I appreciate your response, but, again, the things you describe about the millenials don’t seem likely to exist among high-school drop-outs.

So isn’t there a pretty strong class issue here? Do you thing the drop-outs are likely to be much like the better-educated part of their cohort?