Dang, Attaturk, ya never get any love at this hour, eh? ;-)

Some of us are here.

I somehow don’t think this story will lead the evening news. Good morning ‘turk, thanks for the post.

great post attaturk

yep, i’m up feeding the lil one.

“I’m proud to be an American
And I wish every other kid could be one
But it’s impossible to give equality and justice
To inferior foreigners too jealous to trust us”

The Tubes – Young And Rich – Proud To Be An American

Where can I order that anti-treacle medication?

The torture … is the deepest level of corruption and evil. The most repellant to wrap one’s mind around. TV yanked away that Taxi to the Dark Side. Was happy to see it win the Academy Award. What network was that?

Thank you for posting this. As the “war” books come out and the players show up for their media interviews, the torture just goes on? What level of pathology in this dimension of the neocons, and our own citizenry. And now outsourcing torture is profitable business. What a surprise the released Gitmo prisoner blew himself and others up after being released… And Yoo has his cushy teaching job, right, in Calif. Speaking engagements?

I got the impression from a radio interview on npr that Gen. Sanchez seems to think the above tortures you mention were not extreme or against the Geneva Convention. Because he does belive in the GC he seemed to be saying. “Truthiness”

Thought Jon Stewart was at his best with Feith interview. TY CTuttle, that was your link I think. Favorite moment was when JS mentioned the “sky is falling” …. looting description by Rumsfeld… the “one guy with the vase” spin. And when Stewart wet-blanketed Feith at the end with its being a long read. The look on DF’s face.. priceless. He thought he had sold some books up until then. “Even if you don’t agree with me, I have inside facts and information” or some such thing he asserted confidently.

Wasn’t the Iraq invasion almost called Operation Iraqi Liberation… or Liberty.. but the letters spelled out O-I-L…. ooops.

Feith’s “truthiness” perspective… and putting down the ANONYMOUS sources in the other books about the war by the “outsiders”… after all, he was at the important meetings. H-U-B-R-I-S… THEY NEED A BIGGER WORD FOR WHAT THOSE B*ST*RDS DID!!!

Stewart quietly said that the dishonesty should up the ante like from manslaughter to homicide in terms of accountability. He said with the rules the administration had made for itself, it applied to 15 other countries, not just Iraq. I loved the metaphor about the draft in autoracing.. and momentum had to be made from lead car Afghanistan for momentum to Iraq.

But re Feith… they handled it badly, he admits to magnanimously… but there was no deception. Feith said charmingly at one point, “You actually read the book!” One more war criminal who has no trouble looking at himself in the mirror.

here’s what’s REALLY bizarre about the administration’s position with regards to torture;

they actually believe that if they can get even one conviction with evidence that involved torture, that would ustify the torture program to their base

in other words, suppose a person really is guilty and they have enough proof to prove that guilt IN SPITE of the torture testimony

then the administration will use that conviction as their justification

and here’s another scary thing;

suppose one of these trials gets a judge who has had some kool aid and the suspect is not allowed to introduce the fact that they were tortured

the adinistration will get a conviction and then they will say they got their information through torture and use that conviction to justify the program

this is how rediculous they are, how depraved and it demonstrates the level of inteligence not only among themselves but among their supporters

The torture … is the deepest level of corruption and evil. The most repellant to wrap one’s mind around. TV yanked away that Taxi to the Dark Side. Was happy to see it win the Academy Award. What network was that?

I think it might be a great time to re introduce this production

so let me ask everone something;

if the president does not step down from his office before he is replaced by the next one, how does he immunize himself from prosecution?

will an “executive order” act as some kind of innoculation from obama?

I am thinking more and more that they cannot possibly allow for a transfer of power to a democrat, I am thinking more and more they did not amass this power to hand it off, I am thinking they took office in a coup, why on earth wouldn’t they try to stay in office in another coup

I do not believe it is possible for obama to lose, and I do not believe this adminstration will risk the ramifications if a democrat takes office

I do not believe there will be elections

Thanks perris. “Depravity.” Was searching for that word. The most horrific evil is the hardest to acknowledge or fight, I think. To comprehend its depth and insanity. And then the masterminds pass the execution of the torture down the chain of command …. and then scapegoat those perpetrators if they get close to being nailed. That Stanford professor that experimented with the college kids, and those in the position of power became monstrous. They had to end the experiment early. He has a book out about this subject, too. I forget the name of it. Something about Lucifer.

Scott Peck wrote a book called People of the Lie. He said evil was laziness to the nth degree. How open hearted people fight to deny dark evidence of evil. The darker the greater the tendency for good people to deny it. The darker … the easier for the evil-doers to escape and not be called on it.

Diebold machine elections?

Scott Peck wrote a book called People of the Lie. He said evil was laziness to the nth degree. How open hearted people fight to deny dark evidence of evil. The darker the greater the tendency for good people to deny it. The darker … the easier for the evil-doers to escape and not be called on it.

that explanation, combined with battered wives syndrome and these maggots are still in office

pelosi is possibly the biggest disapointment to me of all democrats

I do not believe electronic flips will be enought, the country will come down in masse to rebuke this administration this election cycle

yet you might be right, the more exposed they become the more brazen their actions

they might just say;

“frig em, let them have a revolution if they don’t believe the election results”

they are indeed that brazen

off for a swim, have a good morning all

if the president does not step down from his office before he is replaced by the next one, how does he immunize himself from prosecution?

In the eyes of the world he cannot. He can only effect his prosecution in the US and, if the US is unwilling or unable to bring charges against him the rest of the world will have every right to go after the bastard.

In the eyes of the world he cannot. He can only effect his prosecution in the US and, if the US is unwilling or unable to bring charges against him the rest of the world will have every right to go after the bastard.

pool is closed for some reason till 7 so here I am again

I am talking about him immunizing himself from the international bar of justice but from the american

When are we going to hear obama1 speak out against the outrageous human rights abuses carried out by the bush/cheney cabal?

Professor Sands in testimony in Congress said the other day that if the US is unable or unwilling to prosecute the rest of the world can and probably will. What the fucker in the WH does has no effect on how the real world deals with him.

Frankly I do not believe that this country has the bloody balls to go after him. The country is too weak and too immature to act responsibly in this matter.

Where can I order that anti-treacle medication?

It gets scary when someone can channel my thought processes this early in the day. *g*

Was gonna ask if it’s available OTC or by script only…..from progressive doctors.

what does he mean “unable”

I know we have laws against an official doing official business but I do not believe breaking the law is included

if we cannot prosecute a president after he leaves office then why did we pardon nixon?

as far as other countries bringing charges, I might actually be against that scenario

if it were allowed even once then every and any of our officials can be brought up on charges for being accessories or for whatever they can think up

the only way I think we can allow a president being tried in international court would be if we ourselves helped in the adjudication

I believe I read somewhere that obama said he would indeed research into investigating crimes that might have been committed by this administration if he is elected

I don’t have a link but I believe I read it

Caught part of a one-hour? program on Free Speech TV yesterday that involved interview with (iirc) the producer (Ferguson?) and including short segments from it. First exposure for me……extremely powerful piece of work.

If you want a boost to morale and have time, VietNam vet Ward Reilly did something I think we all wish we have the nerve to do.

http://www.baltimorechronicle……illy.shtml

Professor Sands says that IF the US is unable (pardons?) or unwilling (Sit on their hands) to prosecute the world can and will. That means any country caninitiate a prosecution.

Frankly I would love to see another country come into oplay. It might wake this bloody country up to the fact that there IS a “rest of the world”

An example that Sands gave. Serbia was unwilling to bring charges against Millosevich so he was hauled before the world court with the help/insistence of America. And yes it applies to everyone not just the king shithead.

Professor Sands says that IF the US is unable (pardons?) or unwilling (Sit on their hands) to prosecute the world can and will. That means any country caninitiate a prosecution.

ah, the if makes all the differance

I hope he has some inside information on that will portion, that would be nice

I would love to see it but only with the us had a hand in the adjudication in some fasion

Millosevich so he was hauled before the world court with the help/insistence of America.

this would be a nice precedence for another country to haul bush, cheney, rumsfeld off for trial however it would be best if our government agreed that they should indeed be tried

I can imagine a scenario where the sitting president might be forced to take military action to get our former president back

don’t forget they do enjoy the protection of the cia for the remainder of their lives

I tried to find the Sands testimony just now but could not (me = idiot). It was about a week or more ago. He was there with Rivkin and a woman who name I forget. I do believe that REvDeb had a linky at some point.

I was thrilled when I heard Sands talk about it and had pictures in my head of the codpiece doing the perp walk in the Hague.

will an “executive order” act as some kind of innoculation from obama?

i doubt obama would want to do anything to hold them accountable (unless we force the issue). look at the way iran/contra was covered up. i expect bushco is expecting (with reason) that the dems will not hold Rs accountable for anything that could include Ds.

don’t forget they do enjoy the protection of the cia for the remainder of their lives

Oh yummy… I pitched battle in the streets of Paris, the CIA vs the flics and bushy cowering behind a woman pushing a pram crying his eyes out. The fucking little coward

Here is an OLD Daily Show about torture and Feith. Worth getting to the Feith part and I LOVE the opening breaking news.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/vi…..knew-staff

i doubt obama would want to do anything to hold them accountable (unless we force the issue). look at the way iran/contra was covered up. i expect bushco is expecting (with reason) that the dems will not hold Rs accountable for anything that could include Ds.

you are probably right but I have high hopes for obama for the following reason;

he does not need the politico to get re elected, he has his own campaign finance source and that doe source does not involve corporations or interest groups

obama might be the only candidate that is capable of finally putting a steak through the heart of these fascists

if he doesn’t they will rise yet again, just as they did after nixon

what do you base that on?

The chances of this country hauling their sorry asses before a court are slim to none. No balls, no leadership. Which, to the delight of my heart, would bring the rest of the world into play.

it was the 5/9 HJC hearing. you can watch the webstream via the archive (see also links to written statements), or if you prefer an mp3 for your ipod, i posted the audio file i ripped for LHP.

on the examples of the past, nixon, cheney, bush, rumsfeld, Iran contra, etc

obama might be the only candidate that is capable of finally putting a steak through the heart of these fascists

cannibalism? Maybe a long metal stake would work better *g*

Damn, you are marvelous!

The chances of this country hauling their sorry asses before a court are slim to none. No balls, no leadership. Which, to the delight of my heart, would bring the rest of the world into play.

and yet, this is the only method we might have to reclaim our integrity and our internation standing as legitimate and fair brokers of international affairs

it is the best way to move forward

will obama realize this?

we doubt it but we have high hopes

Good morning, pups. It’s Bobo and Herbert today. Bobo’s column is called “The Neural Buddhists,” and he says the cognitive revolution is not going to undermine faith in God — it’s going to challenge faith in the Bible. Mr. Herbert says “Here Come the Millennials,” and that Senator Barack Obama has tapped into a generation that is in danger of being left out of the American dream.

http://mgpaquin.wordpress.com/

The coffee, tea and hot chocolate are ready, and the apple walnut muffins just came out of the oven. Have a good day.

what do you base that on?

1. history of dems helping Rs to coverup (see iran/contra)
2. history of dems being complicit (see extraordinary rendition)
3. history of obama’s pattern of conflict avoidance.

those were repugs.
what is the doubt based upon? Has there been some indication by him or his campaign?

could you elaborate on #3? i’m familiar with the other two

and yet, this is the only method we might have to reclaim our integrity and our internation standing as legitimate and fair brokers of international affairs

I do not believe for one moment obama would have the balls to go after these people and I do not think he could get a simple majority (and he will need 60 in the Senate) in Congress. They are a bunch of lilly livered, weak kneed, money grubbing pieces of shit

yes, I do get into the meat of the problem but I think it’s a bunch of bbull, at least that’s what I herd, of course I wouldn’t want to steer you wrong.

in the end we can all enjoy our steaks, if we don’t eat it all we can give it to the cat and the cattle eat the rest

man, I think my head just exploded

it is the best way to move forward

i agree. and i also agree that if clinton were the nominee there is NO way we could be having this conversation. bill, i think, is just to compromised by his on complicity.

so, while i think there is only a very tiny chance that obama will address this, any reason to hope is a good thing.

priceless!

bom dia marion.

i’m up feeding a two day old kitten we found. eyes aren’t even open yet.

The coffee, tea and hot chocolate are ready, and the apple walnut muffins just came out of the oven. Have a good day.

me must decline all but the coffe, I have a bet with my sister and must get down to fighting weight to win this bet

/me have been very good for two weeks but your apple walnut muffins surely seem like a bet breaker

i am unaware of any statement obama has made as a senator condemning torture, kangaroo courts, indefinite detention and pitching habeas corpus.

as an example, iirc in the run up to the MCA vote obama did nothing to try to stop it. the MCA gave immunity for pass acts of torture and it also trashed habeas. obama did vote against it (but did not come out against it much before the vote), and iirc his statement from the senate floor was completely lame – nothing about the value of what we were throwing away, instead a much more pragmatic evaluation. my memory is that clinton’s statement was far better.

trying to be fair here – i really despise both the clintons. but i gotta give credit where it’s due. will try to hunt up the sentate floor statements if you are interested in reading them for yourself instead of relying on my memory (and it’s been awhile since i heard them).

Here’s one link, I’m sure there are others.

not jumping on you but you stated he had a ‘pattern’ and I was interested in what constituted the pattern/ sample of this trait.

ooh tastey, from marchy over at the wheel;

News reports say that Obama will be visiting Michigan on Wednesday–with a visit to the heart of Republican territory in Grand Rapids, and a visit to the home of the Reagan Democrats in Macomb County. I would say that’s a pretty strong signal that the general election campaign started this week

we must point out that there can no longer be reagan democrats, that those who voted reagan voted for what he wrought;

a redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy

a destruction of the working class, giving the power of the labor force over to their corporate counterparts

a destruction of our infrastructure

there is no longer a such thing as a “reagan democrat”, those that became one have facilitated the damage that needs now repair

Obama1

He worried that such a probe could be spun as “a partisan witch hunt.” However, he said that equation changes if there was willful criminality, because “nobody is above the law.”

The “partisan” meme is bullshit. Even a first year student at Robert’s law school could tell you that there has been a raft of illegal crap out of the WH. “Partisan” is a word that is used and abused as an excuse for ignoring the obvious. I believe that obama has been sleeping with liarman for far too long.

In the 1990’s it was blow-jobs the right wingers thought was going to ruin our kids, but yet, now that torture is all the rage, the right wingers don’t bat an eye. They’re fine with our young folk torturing each other because it’s what the republican president does and authorizes.

I despise all labels as they never fully encompass what someone is rfather how someone has characterized them.

But that is an interesting move he and his campaign have made.

or maybe the voice of a diplomat in an election season. i dunno. I can’t read his mind. Have to wait and see and pester him/campaign

a visit to the home of the Reagan Democrats in Macomb County.

Are raygun Democrats the same as clinton goopers?

bom dia, kay
How are you this morning?

not quite, clinton goopers got what they bargained for, reagan democrats got the oposite

or maybe the voice of a diplomat in an election season. i dunno. I can’t read his mind. Have to wait and see and pester him/campaign

Diplomacy hell!. 71% of the people in this country think bush/cheney etal have broken the bloody law. Being diplomatic to salve the 29% of assholes is not diplomacy it is pandering to money sources. Don’t like obama1 any more than I like clinton2

thanx marion who is now in savannah

tastey;

Obama said that as president he would indeed ask his new Attorney General and his deputies to “immediately review the information that’s already there” and determine if an inquiry is warranted — but he also tread carefully on the issue, in line with his reputation for seeking to bridge the partisan divide. He worried that such a probe could be spun as “a partisan witch hunt.” However, he said that equation changes if there was willful criminality, because “nobody is above the law.”

Gotta go and produce breakfast for my wonderful spouse. Have a good day one and all and if you are in WV vote early and often.

dontcha know, torture is MUCH more better then a blow job

at least for cheney and his fascists, I do believe they get sexual pleasure from this torture program

#1 hackles down, I wasn’t slamming your comment and since you have not admited to being some sort of soothsayer, your just as clueless as I as to an explanation.

#2 i’m aware of what Bush and co have done. But some folks aren’t interested in impeachment as an election issue.

#3 I never asked nor do I care whether you are pro/anti hillary/obama. Just trying to look at issues from other possible view points.

I sympathize — you’re not getting much sleep are you?

Diplomacy hell!. 71% of the people in this country think bush/cheney etal have broken the bloody law. Being diplomatic to salve the 29% of assholes is not diplomacy

a point that we must do our best to drive home

enjoy breakfast with your m8

you have not admited to being some sort of soothsayer

I claim I am a sayer of sooths

there, it is now part of the written record for the archives

perris is a sayer of soots

done

nope, but it’s worth it. her tummy is full and she is warm and safe.

by the way, what the hell is a sooth?

I’ve read some of your soot.

I’m fine, Wobblybits. How ’bout yourself? The sun is out but the air is cool. No complaints. ;-)

Perris, can you imagine what the reaction of the right wingers would have been if Bill Clinton had authorized torture and set up secret prisons in countries such as Uzbekistan? Oh wait. Blow jobs & cheating on spouse would still be worse in their eyes. *rolling eyes*

;-)

Dunno, but lots of people were in favor of them, forsooth…

per wiki

A soothsayer is a person who claims to speak sooth: specifically one who predicts the future based upon personal, political, spiritual, mental or religious beliefs rather than scientific facts.

could you tell me what is a “sooth”?

I am a sayer of sooths but I know not at times what I say, so that I might know what I am the sayer of, pray tell, what the hell is a sooth?

sleep deprived but well.

You’re such a good egg, Wobbly, to be taking care of the kitten. Hard work, though! Just like having a newborn in the house, huh?

A soothsayer is a person who claims to speak sooth

now how brilliant is THAT?

enlightenment awaits you @ 73

I believe that there will be more dismissals before we are done for the very same reason. The evidence of torture will be overwhelming and it seems that some of these military commission judges are actually trying to use the rule of law, much to the dismay of the felonious Bush Administration. The statement by the administration that only 3 were waterboarded is/was a red herring because of the other types of mistreatment(torture) that was handed out is now being disclosed.

yeah but you said you spoke soot.

AHA

I just looked it up;

Truth or reality

I am a sayer of sooth

sometimes I am a sayer of speculatory sooth

sometimes I am a sayer of anti sooth

sometimes I am a sayer of post sooth

sometimes I am a sayer of future sooth

I am a sayer of sooth

done

not jumping on you but you stated he had a ‘pattern’ and I was interested in what constituted the pattern/ sample of this trait.

no problem. completely fair question.

i guess i see the “pattern” as a pattern of absence… if there are any disconfirming acts, i’ll withdraw it.

I have never had a newborn so this is a new experience. She has to eat every few hours and we have to make sure she is warm. Mr picked the two fleas he found on her off. She is a fiesty lil thing and has some weight on her so hoping all is well.

i am unaware of any statement obama has made as a senator condemning torture, kangaroo courts, indefinite detention and pitching habeas corpus.

I’m not really a huge fan of Obama but to be fair …

On Torture

America cannot sanction torture. It’s a very straightforward principle, and one that we should abide by. Now, I will do whatever it takes to keep America safe. And there are going to be all sorts of hypotheticals & emergency situations & I will make that judgment at that time. But what we cannot do is have the president state, as a matter of policy, that there is a loophole or an exception where we would sanction torture. I think that diminishes us and it sends the wrong message to the world.

Source: 2007 Democratic primary debate at Dartmouth College Sep 6, 2007

On habeas corpus

Why don’t we close Guantanamo and restore the right of habeas corpus, because that’s how we lead, not with the might of our military, but the power of our ideals and the power of our values. It’s time to show the world we’re not a country that ships prisoners in the dead of night to be tortured in far off countries. We’re not a country that runs prisons which locks people away without ever telling them why they’re there or what they’re charged with. We’re not a country which preaches compassion to others while we allow bodies to float down the streets of major American cities. That’s not who we are.

Source: Take Back America 2007 Conference Jun 19, 2007

Much more at: On the Issues: Barack Obama

No, I just wanted to know from wheree the pattern was drawn. You sighted the one example and i was curious as to the others that demonstrate this pattern (whatever it may be)

I’ll never forget the time my pair of cockatiels had babies. The best part was watching Alice (the Mom) and Morris (the Dad) teaching them to fly for the first time. The baby would go to the very end of the cage door and hold on tightly with it’s cute little feet (parents were on the back of the couch watching & waiting in excitement!) while he/she (Alice & Morris had 3 different clutches…one egg hatched each time) would flap and flap and flap it’s wings until take off! OMG, so cute. As soon as the baby would land next to Mom & Dad, they would give the baby some “that a girl! that a boy!” peeps.

Loved it. Nothing like baby animals no matter what they are.

Wobbly, you’ll end up being Mom to your kitten for the rest of it’s life. So cute.

can you imagine what the reaction of the right wingers would have been if Bill Clinton had authorized torture and set up secret prisons in countries such as Uzbekistan?

it was egypt.

;-)

Do you have a heat lamp or are you snuggling her in blankets? You probably could bring her to bed with you in a small box. She’d probably love that considering kittens always sleep nestled tightly to each other.

I’m no fan of any politician sans Thomas Jefferson because he was so horribly human.
This has just been a eye opening primary and it has proven that there is great good and intentions in this world but it has also reinforced by belief that nothing disappoints quite like human beings.

excellant moyers interview concerning health care and why on earth us pions can’t have cheney care

but that’s just what i mean – it’a all about what we do going forward. nothing about holding the guilty to account.

She is in a lil carrier full of towels and a hot water bottle. She has little sterilized bottles and her kitten formula. Mr spotted what is possibly the mom last night so we’ll set her out today in the box and towels we left inthe garage and see if she comes for her.

Note that Eichmann was abducted, not extradited, to a nation exercising universal jurisdiction.

I’m no fan of any politician sans Thomas Jefferson

I indeed have a few favorites but like you, thom is my fav of favs

that is the sweetest story. Hmm I don’t know if we will keep her. I have put out the call for a home and have volunteered to foster her until she is old enough.

yum, tastey

I see what you mean. Sorry, I missed the point.

that should have read…sans the likes of thomas jefferson

Sick. But as I read down through the few paragraphs about it, nowhere did I read that Clinton gave direct orders to torture. He said, “Do it” in response to our CIA going after bin Laden and others. That said, our CIA has committed atrocities against people since it’s inception and their actions are one of many reasons why the world despises us. They’re doing things secretly in our name and the result is a 9/11 or an Embassy bombing.

George Bush authorized torture and never batted an eye.

I’m tired of Bushes and Clintons being in office. Both families (mainly the Bushes though) have ruined it for those of us who want to see some peace.

We can split on the generic, eh? :)

so think progress has had this lead up for a while;

Conservatives Lash Out At Administration Guidelines On Terrorism Language: It’s ‘McCarthyism In Reverse’

they get it wrong again but this looms dark for the president again, the republicans have no problem repudiating what the president has to say, if that statement goes against their fascism

interesting isnt’t it

I think you were clear, you don’t care for any politicians except thom

I like a few but of all I think I like thom the best

geeze that’s not what i wanted to say either,

note to self..lack of sleep is not condusive to typo free/clear concise thought

i feel like i have cotton on the brain.

mr has the 6am feeding.

i think there is a reason so many dems voted for the MCA – immunity from prosecution for torture went back, iirc, to 1997.

it would also explain why there have been no hearings attempting to find out what has really happened.

foresooth! I guess you forgot foresooth

you speak sooth nomolos

Good Morning Attaturk and Firedogs,

ok, somehow I missed this, am I alone ?

per Attaturk’s “before the elections” link above – Mr “We Can’t Have Acquittals!”, General Thomas Hartmann, has been removed from the proceedings

On Friday, the judge presiding over the Salim Hamdan case, Capt. Keith J. Allred, disqualified a top Pentagon official from any more involvement in the case. The reason? His aims seemed too political, his cheerleading for the prosecution too obvious to allow him to remain involved.

TPM link

tons of behind the scenes intrigues in the link -

No just false sooth

Always thought of treacle as a thick, sweet English foodstuff but, just as an aside, always interesting what one can find on teh google:

3. A medicinal compound formerly used as an antidote for poison.

Given that clarification, sorry but can’t split………probably need to lay in at least a precautionary five year supply just on the outside chance we get cursed with mcbush. *g*

then please feel free to give up the winning lottery numbers for the drawing on Saturday o great tellers of soot

You’re probably right. Or they just didn’t read it like all the other important pieces of legislation. Makes me sick to my stomach.

as all soothsayers, my sooth does not work when you can prove the sooth incorrect

Chris Matthews complaining this morning that his food bill is $2-300 each time. He did say he’s in good shape compared to the rest of us, but please, just shut your pie hole for once in your life, YOU ELITIST!

Okay, on that rant I’m going to work. Have a great day everyone! Wobbly, hope you and the Mr can find some time to get some rest today. ;-)

hence the request and we will know on saturday whether it was incorrect

The National Lawyers Guild, headed by Marjorie Cohn (who testified along with Sands and Rivkin at the HJC hearing last week) has posted a white paper in which they call for a special prosecutor, independent of the Department of Justice, to investigate and prepare charges against Yoo, Bybee and others: By logical extension, this paper explains why all those who approved the use of torture and committed it—whether ordering it, approving it or giving purported legal advice to justify it—are subject to prosecution under international and U.S. domestic law.

Of special interest is this passage:

The prohibition against torture is a jus cogens norm. Jus cogens are defined as norms “accepted and recognized by the international community of states as a whole … from which no derogation is permitted…” In international criminal law, the legal duties that arise in connection with crimes designated as violations of jus cogens norms include the duty to prosecute or extradite, the non-applicability of statutes of limitations, the non-applicability of any immunities up to and including those enjoyed by Heads of State, the non-applicability of the defense of “obedience to superior orders” and universal jurisdiction over perpetrators of such crimes. Other jus cogens norms include the prohibitions against slavery, genocide, and wars of aggression. Jus cogens norms, like customary international law norms, are legally binding. No affirmative executive act may undercut the force of these prohibitions nor may a legislature legalize crimes designated as violating jus cogens norms or immunizing from prosecution those responsible. Jus cogens norms differ from norms which have attained the status of customary international law by dint of their universal and non-derogable character and the fact that jus cogens norms are peremptory, that is, they trump any other inconsistent international law.

In other words, it doesn’t matter what Bush or Congress does, if the international comunity decides to prosecute, these guys are toast.

I was too timid to admit I didn’t know.

Knew it was English… and suspected gooey. Wading through treacle I think is an expression?

Five year supply… yes that would take us through this final year and the next term. Will pour pour some into my “go” bag, in addition.

Talking about what Obama would do… I hope more than suspect. I would have liked to have seen what Edwards would have done with these devils. I really believed he was rolling up his sleeves. Call me a dreamer.

me too.

but i don’t think it’s the whole D party that’s ok with torture – the problem, i think, is that with some Ds implicated, it becomes very hard for any D to find the political support for investigations, etc. when the vast majority of the political elite just want it hushed up.

… but difficult does not equal impossible.

and if we will not hide the bad acts of the clinton administration – if we can shine some light on them, then we can force the dems to stop trying to cover it up.

Morning pups,
And Yet Another ‘Mission Accomplished’ upstairs

I would have liked to have seen what Edwards would have done with these devils. I really believed he was rolling up his sleeves.

I dream too. How does Attorney General Edwards sound to you?

great link. thanks!

Always thought of treacle as a thick, sweet English foodstuff

Lyle’s golden treacle is thinner than the dark stuff and is wonderful on toast and butter

Thanks for that info JW. Of course the downside is that all the WH terrorists will have to stay in this country so we will be stuck with them until they croak, not a happy thought.

Sounds seriously wonderful. Thanks for the new dream!

Got it from Pedinska from Glenn’s place by email.

Yeah, but that will put a definite crimp in their style. I’d like to think that the international pressure eventually will be so great that we have to turn them over. Think economic sanctions. I’ll bet China could be enticed to play along; they have human rights issues of their own that they could try to mitigate through their stance on this.

“In other words, it doesn’t matter what Bush or Congress does, if the international comunity decides to prosecute, these guys are toast.” (sorry, I don’t know how to do that quotey thing).. Anyway:

these guys are toast! ahem….

Then I intend to pour my Lyle’s golden treacle on them!

I’ll bet China could be enticed to play along; they have human rights issues of their own that they could try to mitigate through their stance on this.

That would be delicious!

It would certainly seem that the WH crooks have created enough enemies across the planet to ensure that a number of countries would delight in going after them. And it would help bring down the level of arrogance that this country has shown to the rest of the world.

God, do we have serious karmic issues. Still hard I suspect for all of us to appreciate “demonization” at ALL of us for the crimes in our name about the globe by our demon leaders.

We were protected in denial by being within the borders of the supercountry… but now with globalization … the corporate-gated empires are the superpowers and they have such a tiny uber colony, no room for nationalism. And have moved offshore to … what’s its name… Halliburton’s sanctuary.

so let’s look at somethig in secret here at the lake;

which vp do we think will press for prosecution?

dodd?

whitehouse?

feinstein?

who do we think will do it?

once we decide here in secret, that’s who we will support

howz that for an idea?

crickets

me likey this idea but there are crickets

oops, I ment russ feinberg not feinstein

3 kinds of people. People who make things happen. People who watch things happen. People who ask… “whaaaaaa happened?” Ya think for a while there, Rove, Rumsfeld and Cheney were the only ones in the first category?

My college friend married a Brit, and she writes me asking… what the heck is going on with Americans? I don’t know what to say when people ask.

Aren’t we getting economically enslaved to China?

Also, the euro coming back to haunt us.

VP material for prosecuting? I thought John Edwards as AG?

Dodd has his father’s precedent.

But I think Feingold is the only one with the nerve, actually.

Got it from Pedinska from Glenn’s place by email.

the commenters are glenns are awesome, but the commenting system drives me nuts – trying to find a response requires loading so many pages that i’ve given up on following the comments on every thread (as i use to do). maybe i should reconsider that..

me likey this idea but there are crickets

can’t think of anyone

He’s not a Democratic Party footsoldier, but even so his words seem to make sense. Chris Floyd says:

But as we see, no Democratic leaders are calling for impeachment; in fact, time and again, they specifically and adamantly rule it out. What’s more, they are not even launching any formal, full-scale, high-profile investigations of the “torture memos” and the entire apparatus of enhanced interrogation, indefinite imprisonment and rendition that the leftist jihadis liken to the gulag — even though they control both houses of Congress and could make life a living hell for the Bush Administration and John McCain, the loyal little lapdog who hopes to follow in the Leader’s footsteps. But it is obvious that, deep down, the Democratic leaders agree with the President’s actions and policies; they recognize the deep wisdom behind the aggression in the name of liberty in Iraq, the surveillance in the name of freedom at home, and the torture in the name of civilization that the Leader has made a hallmark of our enlightened age.

How then do they differ from the honorable John Yoo? They too are countenancing, assisting and following the arbitrary will of the Leader. They too look at the murder of a million innocent civilians in Iraq and refuse to treat it as a crime. They too look at the torture of helpless, uncharged, unprotected captives and refuse to treat it as a crime. Oh, they may preen and posture, they may lay some hot and heavy rhetoric on the rubes out there; but they DO nothing. And these are crimes which they actually have the power to investigate and prosecute.

for those attuned to status when evaluating statements, here is high status blogger Glenn Greenwald, frequently linked to approvingly from FDL:

But it is simply undeniable that the Democratic leadership has continuously enabled and, more often, supported the defining Bush policies.

I wish none of this were true. I wish we had a genuine, vibrant opposition party. It would be indescribably beneficial if the rare, isolated and usually marginalized voices within the Democratic Party (and the even rarer and more marginalized voices in the GOP) were predominant. But they just aren’t. That’s just a fact that can’t be ignored. The Democratic Party in Congress is largely controlled and led by those who have enabled and affirmatively supported the worst aspects of the Bush foreign policy and the most severe abuses of our country’s political values.

Impeach!

calls for impeachment were rampant at FDL after the 2006 congress was seated, but now (D) footsoldiers have taken the cue from their officer corps and mildly call for ‘investigations’, and hope that someone, somewhere in the internationals community “has the votes” shall we say, to initiate judicial proceedings against the criminals.

I look forward to the impeachment of the next executive.

This will then be Saudi #——, who received ’special’ treatment by the Bush Administration and got off scott fu**ing free.

These are the same Saudis’ fu**ing us at the other end too.
And the same Saudis that also hate the Jews, who are more concerned about what Obama won’t do for them.

So, our National Security and very way of life were sold to the same snake oil salesman of the Middle East who repeatedly send us scrambling and killing each other in the streets, all while they team up to build “US$3,000 million” bridges to each other. .

Bitter? You bet your ass I am, Hillary!

No matter when it happens, Little Georgie MUST be impeached. Even after he leaves office it is imperative. Until he is impeached he retains much too much legal protection as a president or former president. Once impeached he will lose all of that.

What I don’t understand is that with his approval ratings hovering around 20%, the presumptive republican presidential nominee racing away from Little Georgie even while embracing his policies (wouldn’t want to anger The Big Dick now, would he?), and republicans in Congress looking to lose numerous seats in both House & Senate, WHY is impeachment off the table?

The good news is that it can be put back on the table after November 4.

ITMFA

Jus cogens!