<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The Betrayal Of American Values</title>
	<atom:link href="http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/12/the-betrayal-of-american-values/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/12/the-betrayal-of-american-values/</link>
	<description>Firedoglake weblog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:00:46 -0600</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: manonfyre</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/12/the-betrayal-of-american-values/#comment-1440847</link>
		<dc:creator>manonfyre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 18:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/12/the-betrayal-of-american-values/#comment-1440847</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This is the heart of the darkness of the Bush/Cheney Administration: launching an “&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_aggression&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;aggressive war&lt;/a&gt;” (”&lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;the supreme international crime&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;” ~ Justice Robert H. Jackson) and authorizing torture. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The President and Vice President of the United States of America, together with dozens of members of their Administration, should be held to account for the very same indictments prosecuted at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/NurembergIndictments.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Nuremberg&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Whether or not our commitment to Justice is great enough, right now, here in the United States, Sands tells us that prosecutions are being prepared on the international stage.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Personally, I share the outrage and urgency demonstrated by those who have even attempted to subject Bush and Cheney to “citizen’s arrest.”  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.marjoriecohn.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Marjorie Cohn’s&lt;/a&gt; testimony before the Committee, alongside Sands, was no less compelling.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I dearly hope the “hearings” on these matters (at the very least) do not end here.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thank you, thank you, for this blog post!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the heart of the darkness of the Bush/Cheney Administration: launching an “<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_aggression" rel="nofollow">aggressive war</a>” (”<em><strong>the supreme international crime</strong></em>” ~ Justice Robert H. Jackson) and authorizing torture. </p>
<p>The President and Vice President of the United States of America, together with dozens of members of their Administration, should be held to account for the very same indictments prosecuted at <a href="http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/NurembergIndictments.html" rel="nofollow">Nuremberg</a>.</p>
<p>Whether or not our commitment to Justice is great enough, right now, here in the United States, Sands tells us that prosecutions are being prepared on the international stage.</p>
<p>Personally, I share the outrage and urgency demonstrated by those who have even attempted to subject Bush and Cheney to “citizen’s arrest.”  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.marjoriecohn.com/" rel="nofollow">Marjorie Cohn’s</a> testimony before the Committee, alongside Sands, was no less compelling.</p>
<p>I dearly hope the “hearings” on these matters (at the very least) do not end here.</p>
<p>Thank you, thank you, for this blog post!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/12/the-betrayal-of-american-values/#comment-1440822</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 18:38:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/12/the-betrayal-of-american-values/#comment-1440822</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The full Moyers-Sands interview is essential reading.  The contrast between Bush and Lincoln, not least over torture and treatment of prisoners, could not be more startling.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In the most daunting era of our history since the Revolution, Lincoln attempted to appeal to the best we might be.  Bush has “gauged our weaknesses” and brutalized them.  He appeals, instead, to our lowest fears and petty resentments.  That may reflect who he is.  It may also be that Shrub is a cunning animal who is not as smart as he thinks, but smarter than we give him credit for, which is itself a victory of cunning over strength.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If Dick Cheney controls Bush’s actions, it’s in large measure Bush agrees with him.  He thinks he’s being a manager by “delegating” the work to a “subordinate” like Cheney, so long as he stays out of the limelight.  In exchange for the power of the Presidency, Dick finds that an offer he can’t refuse.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;***&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;One reason the differences between Lincoln and Bush are important is this.  Despite Lincoln’s prominent advocacy for fair treatment, prisoners on both sides were treated horribly.  The “fair play” attitude early in the war gave way to retribution, punishment, starvation and mass death.  &lt;strong&gt;Revulsion at that outcome is a principal reason we have the Geneva Conventions.*&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Imagine the opportunity for mistreatment if Lincoln had said in private to his generals that all Southern prisoners were “fair game”.  The South would have responded in kind.  Both sides would have actively brutalized their prisoners, denying them food, shelter and medical care, resulting in even greater mass death and burning resentment.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Far fewer brothers, sons and fathers would have limped home.  The “War of Northern Aggression” that’s been on simmer ever since would have boiled over more than once.  George Bush is planting the seeds for that outcome throughout the Middle East, uncaring about the harvest that only others will reap.  John McCain?  He doesn’t think Bush has gone far enough; he longs (for others) to be tested in the coming whirlwind.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;* The literature on this topic is considerable.  A good place to start:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v02/v02p137_Weber.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;www.ihr.org/jhr/v02/v02p137_Weber.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The full Moyers-Sands interview is essential reading.  The contrast between Bush and Lincoln, not least over torture and treatment of prisoners, could not be more startling.  </p>
<p>In the most daunting era of our history since the Revolution, Lincoln attempted to appeal to the best we might be.  Bush has “gauged our weaknesses” and brutalized them.  He appeals, instead, to our lowest fears and petty resentments.  That may reflect who he is.  It may also be that Shrub is a cunning animal who is not as smart as he thinks, but smarter than we give him credit for, which is itself a victory of cunning over strength.  </p>
<p>If Dick Cheney controls Bush’s actions, it’s in large measure Bush agrees with him.  He thinks he’s being a manager by “delegating” the work to a “subordinate” like Cheney, so long as he stays out of the limelight.  In exchange for the power of the Presidency, Dick finds that an offer he can’t refuse.</p>
<p>***</p>
<p><em>One reason the differences between Lincoln and Bush are important is this.  Despite Lincoln’s prominent advocacy for fair treatment, prisoners on both sides were treated horribly.  The “fair play” attitude early in the war gave way to retribution, punishment, starvation and mass death.  <strong>Revulsion at that outcome is a principal reason we have the Geneva Conventions.*</strong></em>  </p>
<p>Imagine the opportunity for mistreatment if Lincoln had said in private to his generals that all Southern prisoners were “fair game”.  The South would have responded in kind.  Both sides would have actively brutalized their prisoners, denying them food, shelter and medical care, resulting in even greater mass death and burning resentment.  </p>
<p>Far fewer brothers, sons and fathers would have limped home.  The “War of Northern Aggression” that’s been on simmer ever since would have boiled over more than once.  George Bush is planting the seeds for that outcome throughout the Middle East, uncaring about the harvest that only others will reap.  John McCain?  He doesn’t think Bush has gone far enough; he longs (for others) to be tested in the coming whirlwind.  </p>
<p>* The literature on this topic is considerable.  A good place to start:<br />
<a href="http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v02/v02p137_Weber.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v02/v02p137_Weber.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bobschacht</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/12/the-betrayal-of-american-values/#comment-1440754</link>
		<dc:creator>bobschacht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 17:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/12/the-betrayal-of-american-values/#comment-1440754</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thank you, Mary, for continuing to advocate what should be, but no longer is.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If President Obama opts for a “truth and reconciliation commission” rather than an all-out prosecution for law-breakers, I hope that the Democratic collaborators are outed as well as all Republican miscreants. I’ve been a Democrat for life, but I have grown increasingly ashamed of my Party.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bob in HI&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Mary, for continuing to advocate what should be, but no longer is.</p>
<p>If President Obama opts for a “truth and reconciliation commission” rather than an all-out prosecution for law-breakers, I hope that the Democratic collaborators are outed as well as all Republican miscreants. I’ve been a Democrat for life, but I have grown increasingly ashamed of my Party.</p>
<p>Bob in HI</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mauimom</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/12/the-betrayal-of-american-values/#comment-1440720</link>
		<dc:creator>Mauimom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 17:28:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/12/the-betrayal-of-american-values/#comment-1440720</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Leaving aside the potential for delusional sadism brought on from too much exposure to fictional television&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Whoa, it turns out we might need that censorship of “violins on television” [to quote Emily Latella] — not to protect our children, but to protect &lt;strong&gt;us&lt;/strong&gt; from what “violence” [i.e., 24] plants in the twisted minds of Addington, Rumsfeld, et. al.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’ll bet 24 is on all of their TiVos.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Leaving aside the potential for delusional sadism brought on from too much exposure to fictional television</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Whoa, it turns out we might need that censorship of “violins on television” [to quote Emily Latella] — not to protect our children, but to protect <strong>us</strong> from what “violence” [i.e., 24] plants in the twisted minds of Addington, Rumsfeld, et. al.</p>
<p>I’ll bet 24 is on all of their TiVos.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bobschacht</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/12/the-betrayal-of-american-values/#comment-1440695</link>
		<dc:creator>bobschacht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 16:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/12/the-betrayal-of-american-values/#comment-1440695</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Christy,&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks once again for pushing this theme. We need answers to your questions!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bob in HI, where it is now time for breakfast.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christy,<br />
Thanks once again for pushing this theme. We need answers to your questions!</p>
<p>Bob in HI, where it is now time for breakfast.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: RevBev</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/12/the-betrayal-of-american-values/#comment-1440687</link>
		<dc:creator>RevBev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 16:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/12/the-betrayal-of-american-values/#comment-1440687</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Such a great idea…to use on our behalf.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Such a great idea…to use on our behalf.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DeanOR</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/12/the-betrayal-of-american-values/#comment-1440652</link>
		<dc:creator>DeanOR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 16:18:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/12/the-betrayal-of-american-values/#comment-1440652</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;When I get that economic stimulus government check, it is not going toward a better computer (my public pledge). It is going to Center for Constitutional Rights, ACLU, and Amnesty International. It is not going to political campaigns that refuse to actively work for this issue or other issues of civil liberties and human rights.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I get that economic stimulus government check, it is not going toward a better computer (my public pledge). It is going to Center for Constitutional Rights, ACLU, and Amnesty International. It is not going to political campaigns that refuse to actively work for this issue or other issues of civil liberties and human rights.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: mui1</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/12/the-betrayal-of-american-values/#comment-1440617</link>
		<dc:creator>mui1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 15:37:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/12/the-betrayal-of-american-values/#comment-1440617</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I saw that Bill Moyers show, and that was a good one. Addington and Cheeney are the big snakes according to Sands. Have you guys thought of getting Sands on FDL? That would be excellant. It would be a cool thread with Emptywheel and Sands together.&lt;br /&gt;
I also recommend the segment on nurses for universal healthcare as well.&lt;br /&gt;
I also recommend America at Crossroads: Muslim comics. It was on last night. It was sad because of the sh*t these comedians have to put up with and the jokes are often about what it’s like to be under surveillance, discriminated against, ec.. But the comedians were funny and brave. One of the woman comedians has cerebral palsy.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw that Bill Moyers show, and that was a good one. Addington and Cheeney are the big snakes according to Sands. Have you guys thought of getting Sands on FDL? That would be excellant. It would be a cool thread with Emptywheel and Sands together.<br />
I also recommend the segment on nurses for universal healthcare as well.<br />
I also recommend America at Crossroads: Muslim comics. It was on last night. It was sad because of the sh*t these comedians have to put up with and the jokes are often about what it’s like to be under surveillance, discriminated against, ec.. But the comedians were funny and brave. One of the woman comedians has cerebral palsy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Frank33</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/12/the-betrayal-of-american-values/#comment-1440604</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank33</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 15:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/12/the-betrayal-of-american-values/#comment-1440604</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Stupid Doug Feith decided to abolish the Geneva Conventions. He call these, “Law in the service of terror.” It is hard to be more “New World Order” than that.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.slate.com/id/2100899/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.slate.com/id/2100899/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;“They said he had a dismissive, if not derisive, attitude toward the Geneva Conventions,” Scott Horton, a lawyer who was approached by six outraged JAG officers last year, told the Chicago Tribune. “One of them said he calls it ‘law in the service of terror.’ ”
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stupid Doug Feith decided to abolish the Geneva Conventions. He call these, “Law in the service of terror.” It is hard to be more “New World Order” than that.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.slate.com/id/2100899/" rel="nofollow">http://www.slate.com/id/2100899/</a></p>
<blockquote><p>“They said he had a dismissive, if not derisive, attitude toward the Geneva Conventions,” Scott Horton, a lawyer who was approached by six outraged JAG officers last year, told the Chicago Tribune. “One of them said he calls it ‘law in the service of terror.’ ”
</p>
</blockquote>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/12/the-betrayal-of-american-values/#comment-1440599</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 15:17:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/12/the-betrayal-of-american-values/#comment-1440599</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;12 horses!!!???!!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;wow, it’s amazing that you have time for anything else.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;p.s. offer is open-ended, email me any time wrt to any downloads. many, many thanks for all you do.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>12 horses!!!???!!</p>
<p>wow, it’s amazing that you have time for anything else.</p>
<p>p.s. offer is open-ended, email me any time wrt to any downloads. many, many thanks for all you do.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
