and the beat goes on.

Indeed it does. You’d think that “trickle down” would have been thoroughly discredited by now, wouldn’t you?

Yes, the economy is in tip top shape…

In my smallish zip code area, as of this morning, there are 39 homes in foreclosure.

Well, that’s just Anti-American claptrap. *G*

It should be discredited even when it’s dressed up as supply-side economics.

I have to say, I wish that DNC ad above would be played everywhere. Because it really makes the point — very starkly — how incredibly out of touch McCain and his economic team truly is.

Look, you need to decide people.

Either the economy is in great shape or you hate America.

Which is it?

This is great because unless McCain wins he and everything associated with Bush/McCain will be toxic to the GOP and voters for years. Now why the antitax/probusiness GOPers and the Religious wings of the GOP are backing John I don’t know.
What happens to the GOP after November when the business and religious wings of the party both get the blame for the horrible Bush years, John McCain’s defeat and a filibuster proof majority in the Senate.

You ever get the feeling that we’re all trapped in some weird world of stupid? SIGH

It’s a great ad!

People see the the cumulative impact of one bad decision after another each and every time they fill up their cars or try to buy food for their families. Including a majority of GOP voters.

Homeowner’s Insurance cancelled (30 year customer) b/c State F*rm is playing hard ball with the governor. They want the state of Florida to pay for level three hurricanes. Schools are closing for lack of revenue. Real Estate transactions in the toilet – no tax revenue generated by sales.

Repugs let the finance industry merge with insurance companies. Now they have too much money and power. They let the insurance companies create subsidiary companies to minimize exposure.

The Republicans screwed up everything they touched. They have even screwed themselves. Real Estate tycoons and car dealers going broke, yet they still want McCain. Some of them bought Haliburton and oil co stocks early. These guys are still ok financially (but they’re getting cancelled by State F*)rm too.

Actually, I just got that exact feeling a few minutes ago reading Attaturks post this morning!

the reason blunt says “and that’s a good thing” is that this is exactly what they want

they want a robber baron economy, they want the wealthy and then everyone else

the wealthy will get everything payed for by what was once the middel class and they will pay for nothing

then they will charge again for those paying taxes to do what the taxes were supposed to pay for in the first place

this is their model, it is the libertarian model as well, it is the fascist model

the liberatarians, the concervatives, the fascists have morhed and now all call themselves “republicans”

they are not republicans in principle either, they are not concervative, they are extremists and all they want is

“us and then everyone else beneath us”

that is now their brand

Vote McCain. Gotta keep gays from marrying somehow.

video was pulled, I get “we’re sorry, this video is no longer available”

is youtube being bought by abc or something?

So sorry to hear about your homeowner’s insurance. We had a similar issue a few years ago here in WV — not due to hurricanes but due to hardball being played for other reasons. And it was brutal and ugly for a lot of folks.

Plays just fine for me. Try reloading your page…

So slightly more than half of Republicans think the country is headed the wrong way. Are these 30%ers or are these Republicans who have switched to our side or plan to stay neutral this election.
Because if this reflects the 30%er Bush base view the implications for November even if they just stay home are staggering.

if Rove had been a Missourian, Blunt would have been president

Depends is the Chicago school of economics still taught in Chicago?

I love that he says, and that’s a good thing. I love it when Republicans show how out of touch with reality they are. Espcecially since people stopped buying their horseshit.

yup, reload did the trick

wow, this add is great

I would have rather they anouncer ended with a referance to mccains detachment with reality being similar to bush’s…I think an add that did that would nail his coffin shut

I don’t feel confident that people have stopped.

Hang Bush belongs around McBush’s neck like a necktie. At every press conference, somebody should ask “But isn’t that eaxctly what Bush did?”.

Boxturtle (Hmmm…have I just created our advertising slogan?)

It is severely discounted horseshit.

This is on topic only because FEMA is such a screw up under Bush. If Katrina had hit Delaware with the same force most of the state would have been wiped out. Reasons, Delaware is a small state, mostly wood framed houses, and very flat, no hills to knock the wind down.

That should happen, but it’s hard to imagine it happening given the inquiry skills of today’s media.

Yeah, more like “Back to that rib rub recipe…”

It is severely discounted horseshit.

Amen – does anyone here know of anyone excited about the forthcoming stimulus checks ?!?!?

btw – the Onion weighs in

It seems that Bob Barr is going to become the Red Nader. That should add an interesting element to the mix.

Bush’s base are the people who ran Bear Stearns, the Banks and Hedge funds they gambled on margin which is borrowed money. Wait no margin is borrowed money for which the bank goes after your assets.
The banks let the hedges borrow $15 to every $1 of assets on the books, or the banks let them borrow lots more (I keep hearing some unbelievable numbers).
So guess who gets hurt worse? Guess who is going to need a tax payer bailout because he Fed cannot keep money cheap forever. Guess who gots the leverage to get what they want if they will only use it?

I’m not sure exactly what happened, as everyone here pays attention and knows what’s going on. But Bush’s approval rating went from 80+% down to where it is today, so I’m thinking that a lot of people woke up.

McCain running on Bush’s tax cuts surely isn’t helping him.

Indeed I am and I will rush right out and buy a bag of groceries as soon as it gets here.

At the risk of going off topic, WE are todays media. The blogs and the key bloggers. We’re not in anybody’s pay, there’s a HUGE, well connected research staff that works basically for free. We are Borg.

Boxturtle (We need to get Jane & Chirsty press credentials for the McBush camp. )

So I admit guilt in not clicking through the links above, but have we thoroughly exposed Carly Fiorina as one of McThuselah’s go to gals on the economy?

McCain running on Bush’s tax cuts surely isn’t helping him.

Unless the election is rigged.

If you in Florida, you know this already, but for the others, Citizens Property Insurance, a State run company is now the largest property insurer in the State of Florida. That’s right the government is now on the hook for a major hurricane. That whole free market thing did not work out for Florida. And Jeb Bush was the man who created the largest state run insurance company in the nation!

if he had only done it for health care too.

As the election nears, the Republics will move on to nonsensical issues like gay marriage or pornography. They will shout about Obama’s pastor and hint that he’s a muslim. They will stop running on anything Bush related.

Unless the election is rigged.

Rigged is such an ugly word. Can we please refer to it as “Optimized”?

Boxturtle (Sorry, tinfoil hat on wrongside out)

In our county, we’ve got 74 homes in foreclosure as of the first quarter of this year – 3 times what there were about a year ago. In our case, though we have two factors influencing this (in addition to the economy): Huge flood in June, 2006 and an entire community which has been contaminated by TCE by a plant complex formerly owned by IBM. Those people have been fighting to get IBM to buy their homes for several years; they’ve basically given up and since they can’t sell them, they’ve decided that making payments is not worth it.

do you mean like the way they are trying to optimize it in Missouri?

When Citizens Property Insurance stated out it had to charge the Highest rates in the State, so as not to interfer with the free market. Mostly for people who live near the coast, (millions by the way), who could not get insurance from any company.

All the more reason to tie him around McCain’s ankles like a set of cement shoes.

TexBetsy e-mailed this to me yesterday. For all the Moms in the audience, it’s a hoot…

The GOP will do anything to save the financial system. I say any first all those home loans the Fed is taking as collateral have to be valued at their present value and not at what the bank paid for them.
If that puts the bank under fine they recapitalize then under a bankruptcy judge. The Fed has no right to short change tax payers by accepting near worthless home loans as collateral the dollar has lost around 30% against the Euro I remember when they were tied. The Fed has caused money to be money and interest rates to be cheaper to help the banks make loans to people so hopefully someone will buy the banks home loans.

“McThuselah” is definitely a keeper.

Got to run. Read you all later. Oh, & a little something in the kitty this a.m. for FDL :->

Thanks, Marie — very much appreciated!

1,840 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Firepup Freedom Fighters:

We are in this political and economic tub of shit because we as a people have been convinced to abandon democratic ideology and replace it with the self interest of those who hold the money and issue the dividends. It’s simple, and no amount of “economic advisors” will save us even if they include the likes of our friend Krugman. The debate of the relationship of economics and politics in our country must be reinvigorated and the ideas that are advanced must not be limited to those articulated by the corporate bankers who represent the oligarchy that rules us.

The solution to the crisis we face can only be solved by more democracy and the application of hard nosed Democratic politics! The economic solutions to this crisis ain’t gunna be found in the advice of those who rely on paychecks from the Bush family or dividends from stock holdings. And the solutions to our economic crisis does not include the existing corporate power structure.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, WE KEN BEAT ‘EM WITH MORE DEMOCRACY!!

Honestly, I think they teach it in schools as a valid approach to economics. The reason I think that is that my college educated son believes in trickle down, although the entire rest of the family knows better. My niece is the most recent college grad, and she’s just started getting interested in politics even though the older generation of the family (and even her oldest brother) has been politically inclined ever since I can remember. She’s in her forties, and I don’t know if she would have taken a serious interest if it hadn’t been for GWB. Now that she’s aware of all the harm he’s done and how up in arms we all are about it, she’s paying attention and doing research. Still I wonder. I sent her something on the Ledbetter case, and she said she had been following that as a rep of the college she works for. Maybe she was just being kind of glib and short cutting what she meant, but she said it all came down to statute of limitations; “she missed one of her deadlines.” I keep wondering if she actually missed the point of the case; that the Roberts court turned the deadlines on its ear with their finding. Sometimes I think maybe I’m living in the dreamworld, and all of these things are really not happening or I’m misinterpreting everything. But I don’t think so.

Under our current leadership, isn’t hard nosed Democratic politics an oxymoron.

oh puhleeze trot out senior economic advisor Phil Gramm -

Barrons refers to he and his wife as Mr and Mrs Enron – with good reason

most here know he was the driving force behind ‘relaxing’ regs leading to Big Shit Pile

and let’s not forget his current perch as Vice Chair of UBS/Investment Bank – writing off $52 Billion plus in last 2 quarters – heckuva . . .

Yes, Sen. Enron isn’t exactly who I’d be trotting out as my economics guru, either…

Under our current leadership, isn’t hard nosed Democratic politics an oxymoron.

yes.

but not “hard nosed democratic politics”

we are the little “d” in democratic.

Crap hedgefunds as rich as they were borrowed money from the banks at 15 to 1 to buy the bank’s home loans nobody not even the Fed could afford to buy all of America’s home loans at current prices.
Notice the Fed is accepting home loans from banks as collateral but the Fed is not buying home loans from the hedge funds.
Nobody is buying those loans. Those loans were suppose to be currency the hedges used them to buyout companies and as collateral for more borrowing. If the hedges are stuck with a worthless currency they can’t unload then they cannot use that money to make more money.
Which means that they are selling assets like stock right now.

I don’t think you are misinterpreting anything, Ann. I find a LOT of things “unbelievable”, yet they are happening, but never doubt my perception. I read a lot, so I can be confident it’s not just my opinion, but actual fact. These things have never happened to this country before. It’s far easier to refuse to believe the chit and go merrily on. But no, and sadly, it’s all very real. It’s great that your daughter is becoming involved. You and your family did something right, to be sure!

Yes, that’s an excellent example. It sounds so reasonable. Everybody’s got or can get a drivers license right? How can anybody be against that?

Hrrumph. I’ll bet there are paperwork issues at least 10% of the time someone who looks like they might vote for the wrong party shows up at the polls.

Boxturtle (Let’s just be honest with ourselves and bring back the Poll Tax)

1,840 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen HelplessDancer:

“Under our current leadership, isn’t hard nosed Democratic politics an oxymoron?”

Good question, but we will get “hard nosed” Democrats when we get a hard nosed democratic (lower case) movement…trust me even the “Blue Dogs” will bark for their campaign contributions from where ever they come. But in order to get real democracy, we gotta have free elections and free access to the polling places. And the use of the law to justify voter intimidation and suppression can only be countered by muscular Democrats ready ta use the ammunition we pass ‘em.

KEEP THE FAITH, DEMOCRACY CAN ONLY BE SAVED BY MORE DEMOCRACY!!

For the Firepubs in Florida, this was in the Orlando Sentinel on Friday (I think it was Friday)

I LIVE IN AN OLDER HOME

Homeowners can elect to buy building ordinance and law coverage, which is a separate type of coverage to pay for any increased costs to rebuild, demolish or repair a home to make sure it meets current Florida building codes. About 2.5 million homes in the state were built before 1995, and if they are damaged in a storm, the homeowners would be required to rebuild the homes to more recent, stronger codes.

Christy – I didn’t even know about his vice chair at UBS until recently – and the investment banking end no less – two expulsions at the very top the last year alone but somehow he retains his spot – I’m tagging him with a new one:

Mr Derivative

btw, do watch the “gated community” YouTube link above…it’s one of The Peanut’s favorite howlers (something about a singing cucumber that gives her a giggle fit)

he likes to throw out “spend less and tax the wealthy less for trickle down”

Don’t pee on my back and tell me it’s trickle-down…

BC

With the hedge funds being forced to sell to cover their debts they are dragging the market lower than the current bad economy would lower the market.
But a low tide lowers all ships even the good ones not touched by financial companies, housing bubbles or a slowing economy. The market is underpriced and since its expected to get worse it will go lower financial companies and housing may take years to recover.
But not the rest of the economy give it 2, 3 years and the Democratic President should be sitting on a stockmarket boom.
For just as Herbert Hoover was followed by FDR if our next President goes as Left with his economic policy as FDR did well things should be Great. Hmmm…Things Are Great I like the sound of that!

Haven’t you heard? Many companies have become very concerned about infringements of their brands. YouTube has had to pull anything from Viacom and several other media outlets in order to avoid lawsuits and high penalties. Many of my favorite music videos were involved.

Bob Barr as “The Red Nader” is just too funny on so very many levels. 707!

I won’t take credit for McThuselah—someone else started that. But I will take it for the Red Nader. Yes, the possibilities are many, if not endless.

Oh, and any bets that the Ron Paul voters would love to go his way? Seems likely to me.

Crap hedgefunds as rich as they were borrowed money from the banks at 15 to 1 to buy the bank’s home loans nobody not even the Fed could afford to buy all of America’s home loans at current prices.
Notice the Fed is accepting home loans from banks as collateral but the Fed is not buying home loans from the hedge funds.
Nobody is buying those loans. Those loans were suppose to be currency the hedges used them to buyout companies and as collateral for more borrowing. If the hedges are stuck with a worthless currency they can’t unload then they cannot use that money to make more money.
Which means that they are selling assets like stock right now.

We simply refuse to learn. Allowing anyone to leverage assets at 15:1 is just stupid. When (not if, when) something bad happens the lender is in deep trouble. Why is it that they won’t allow us 15:1 on our home mortgages without private mortgage insurance? Oh yeah, if something untoward happens and we can’t service the debt, the bank gets most of its money back.

The practice of highly leveraged borrowing was one of the more important factors that led to the 1929 stock market crash. One of the reforms that came out of that was a limitation on margin lending. We learned the specific lesson and failed to generalize it.

BC

I like the image due to knowing his vehement anti-communism stances. It just rings both poetic and ironic for him to be taqgged thusly.

. . . talking points !, get yer talking points here!

The numbers in the table show the revenue loss to the Federal government from McCain’s proposed tax cuts. In the far right corner is the 10-year total: -$5.7 trillion

Jared Bernstein

HuffPo

BushCo policy chickens comin’ home to roost in the Hamptons, too.

Oh, and any bets that the Ron Paul voters would love to go his way? Seems likely to me.

yes. but many of those ron paul voters would have voted for obama over mcsame.

Of course, they’ll do all that. But these guys in Congress still seem to be a united, solid voting block in Congress (inc. Geritol McCain), so as long as they keep saying that the economy is great and we’re winning in Iraq, and bailing out BearSterns and leaving everyone else unbailed out, they keep digging their own grave.

You know, I hadn’t thought about it, but given that:

1. Anticommunist paranoia has always originated in the batshit-crazy right;
2. Red has historically been the color associated with communist parties worldwide;

it’s rather strange that the GOP has allowed itself to get tagged with the color red.

BC

OT but since ppl are giggling at singing cucumbers I thought you might be interested in the non-Disney movie Peach due out the end of the month.

I am heartbroken.
Yesterday I called home to wish my 77 yo Mom Happy Mothers Day. Then I foolishly opt to talk to my 87 yo Dad.
He starts out the conversation with ” Well you know if HE is elected, the Muslims will get rid of our flag”….
I tell my Seriously Religious Christian Dad that that is Republican bullshit and Obama is a member of the Church of Christ, just like my Dad.
My father replies “he is not a member of MY church”…
My father is nearing the end of his life and I can’t even have a civil, extended conversation with him. And I won’t just let the lies go unremarked. Not anymore.
Republicans have done a lot of harm to poor, working-class people, and so little good for them. Yet those same folks are still distracted by flag pins! and fear the scary black man! and Gays!!!!Marrying!!!noooooo
I pray that Dante’s Hell awaits them.

Crucial Point.

Maybe most here know Gramm is more to blame for the housing crisis than anyone, but Tradmed doesn’t and needs to be told. Noriega supporters should remind Texans of how conservative senators harm us every day.

Ultimately, won’t that be a strategically very good thing for us? Split the Rethug vote? Won’t anyone who would vote for Bob Barr not be likely to vote for Obama anyway? Or Hillary, for that matter?

Beware the false prophets.
The false pastors.
and most of all, the false politicians.

The best remedy for elders manipulated by their fears and bigotry is for the rest of us to vote strong and better in November…and work now, “the fierce urgency of now.”

I hear you.

Lilysmom,

I’m going through something similar. My 82 year-old dad is a life-long Republican. He had a heart attack a couple of weeks ago and I don’t expect him to be around much longer. I won’t talk politics with him, when he brings up Barack Obama I change the subject. I won’t have our last conversations be about our disagreements. He and my mother raised three solid citizens, and he acknowledges that, even if one of them is a crazy liberal.

Just change the subject.

BC

Thanks PS

Thanks BC

You know, we laugh about Barr entering the race, and how he’s doing Dems a favor, but I wonder if that may be his intention. He was scheduled to introduce Gore when he gave that impressive speech at Constitution Hall on MLK Day in 2006. He’s been very angry with the destruction of the Constitution that he’s seen the Rethugs doing. I’m sure he’s factored in the fact that he will not win, and that it will split the Rethug vote.

It sure is. Clinton got to 1600 with a big assist from Perot-nistas.

I agree I am trying to advance the idea that this crisis will hit Bush’s base of Economic elites harder than it will hit us.
So that when the financial system needs a bailout we use that as leverage to get what we want. An end to the Iraq war National healthcare, or else we just have the government take over the banks as the go under.
The banks have the Hedge Funds loans which are worth nothing now but in a in a few years they will be worth allot.
So we have nothing to lose and everything to gain cause thanks to the Fed the banks have turned over collateral for loans. But when your collateral goes down in value the banks ask for more collateral.
So far the Fed has not done that but if the Fed treated th banks the same way banks treat homeowners the the taxpayers would own the banks because we own the Fed despite the Fed’s illusion’s of being independent.
The banks would go into bankruptcy the investors in the banks, hedges etc would go bankrupt the government would absorb the remaining assets and Social Security would then be fully funded.
Or the GOP could make a deal with us now to end the war and give everyone healthcare.

One of the downsides is that the elderly is a growing segment of voters. The rest of us can vote rationally, but unless we reassure our elderly parents and relatives, they can provide the margin for the Gooper success.

Bumper sticker:

Give Bush a 3rd Term: 20 Years-to-Life.

love it.

Reagan promised to balance the budget and Bush II promised to reduce mercury pollution. I would have been thrilled if they keep their promise, but Nooooooooo.

Going OT, but any good news is a relief.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/36638.html

Voting Republican this year means McWorse.

Republics have never been required to keep promises they make.

I can’t help but to think that Senior Scammers have the manipulation of that demographic down to an art form.

I think we’re discussing two different aspects of the same phenomenon. I was trying to say that the wealthy and (perhaps especially) the uberwealthy often need to be protected from themselves.

The investment reforms (deposit insurance, barring banks from stock sales and insurance, the SEC) coming out of the New Deal were mostly directed at protecting the wealthy from themselves. But our government (at the urging of the wealthy) has mostly dismantled those safeguards.

So we’re back where we were when the curtain finally came down on the epilogue to the Gilded Age.

BC

It should be amusing to see Republics try to marginalize Barr.

Hmmmm. I am retired and still vote rationally… I think

It definitely poses a problem, since seniors are one of the most reliable groups that go to the polls

Yup!

I would love to figure out some way to measure how quickly one of those smarmy e-mail lie campaigns gets rolled out and then pervades the e-mail spam of people all over the country. I know that veterans newsgroups — especially for the WWII and Korean War vets — are rampant with that crap, because I get it forwarded to me all the time by relatives who frequent them. Ditto for a lot of the religious newsgroups and message/discussion boards.

Which hits a whole lot of senior citizens right where they live in terms of internet contact — including with some family member or friend somewhere who is likely to be connected there. Lots of political, anti-immigrant, ten commandments monuments — all the push their buttons issues, all forwarded around like clockwork.

Somewhat O/T.

An e-mail crossed my reader this morning. It was excoriating a bill in Congress that would allow illegal aliens access to Social Security benefits.

This is little-known but remains true: because it’s a payroll tax, OASDI (Social Security) taxes are collected for many undocumented workers. Because they are undocumented and want few things less than an encounter with any agent of the US government they don’t attempt to collect benefits under Social Security. So they contribute to the surplus, and rarely take benefits. This is definitely a sweet deal for SSA, for the undocumented worker, not so much.

This e-mail campaign stinks of a GOoP trick to mobilize older voters. Dunno if it will work, though.

BC

Fresh thready goodness, up top for anyone who wants it…

Me, too, BC…my 84 yr old dad had a heart attack in September last year, and I didn’t expect him to last this long with the severity of his condition. He, too, has remained conservative throughout his life and is strongly opinionated and *loves* Bush/McCain et al.

Like you, I don’t want our last conversation to be about politics, so I change the subject or act like I need to use the restroom.

He wrote my aunt a nasty letter because she was Democrat. She had a heart attack and died. He felt badly at first, but just a few weeks ago, went off again on how much Democrats have “messed up” this country…and how we’re responsible for everything that’s going wrong now. And he knows that I’m Democrat, too.

I really don’t want to be thought as ageist, but I think that at a certain point people vote their fears rather than their hopes.

I think the last few years, a whole host of people — regardless of age and level of education — voted their fears and not much else. Sad to say…

My mother brought up Vince Foster (!!!) the other day. Un-bee-leivable. And she’s a former hippy almost always liberal except for voting against the clintons.

bom dia pups

per TPM:

Joe Lieberman is out there touting the alleged endorsement of Obama by Hamas as reason to vote for John McCain.

Hmmm lemme guess Mr Reid’s response…*crickets* yeah, it’s what I thought his response would be.

I see it differently….

The Rethug machine is simply an extension of the megacorps: both adroitly manipulate the basest emotions (envy, fear, greed) in order to control behavior. The megacorps use the manipulations both to sell useless crap and to narrow the sphere of public discussion so that only megacorp-friednly public policy options are “respectable”. They “accomplish” the latter via ads and the former via the think tank/PR sector (all tax-deductible, too!)

The Rethugs attack basic education (to create an uninformed populace) and deride intellect and logical thought. The Rethugs then use carefully crafted information warfare (ads, email, religious advocacy, photo-ops, etc) designed to mobliize dysphoric emotions (hate, fear, envy) to manipulate voters.

The only age factor I see is that – as a group – seniors tend to have less net access and more reliance upon MSM for their primary information sources. As electronic MSM weere long ago simply purchased by the megacorps, the info seniors recieve is already slanted to support GOP talking points.

Not sure the new generation of seniors has exactly the same political leanings as the previous generation.

Jeez. Quite a few of us here on FDL are seniors. Should we leave? There’s not going to be any discussion of some final solution is there?

The banks let the hedges borrow $15 to every $1 of assets on the books, or the banks let them borrow lots more (I keep hearing some unbelievable numbers).

Bear Stearns was leveraged beyond 30 to 1, IIRC, when Federal Reserve intervention became necessary.

On a Sunday night.

To keep the world’s financial markets from melting down.

Very well put, km. And spot on, too.

Everything is scripted and nothing is left to chance. Those flags you see behind the speakers aren’t there by chance. The advertisements show them with their sleeves rolled up…as if they were actually doing physical labor…

And the seniors as a group sit and watch TV all day long…any Communications Major can tell you they have studies showing that the more TV you watch, the more afraid you are of the outside world. Everyone who doesn’t *look like you* is scary, indeed.

Btw, I saw Manchurian Candidate yesterday for the first time. I’m not a fan of horror movies, but this scared me more than any horror movie I’ve ever seen…

Except that,among a lot of the seniors I know, their internet access and knowledge is growing as computers become less expensive and high-speed access becomes more prevalent. I know we have family members in their 80s and up who love sending pictures online and staying in touch via e-mail, as well as doing geneology research and keeping up with pals from all over the country and with interest groups that have discussion hubs on just about every subject imaginable.

The fact of the matter is that the GOP realized they could exploit that with a lot of these fake e-mail BS things — and they’ve been willing to keep on pushing them. It was certainly in high gear during the 2004 campaign, just based on anecdotal evidence that I saw from e-mail forwarding from various friends and relatives, and it hasn’t stopped.

Barr running as a Libertarian eh? I have always liked the ACLU wing of the libertarian party—Good Luck Bob—and- hey- get some sun–you look like an albino!

The Rethugs attack basic education (to create an uninformed populace) and deride intellect and logical thought. The Rethugs then use carefully crafted information warfare (ads, email, religious advocacy, photo-ops, etc) designed to mobliize dysphoric emotions (hate, fear, envy) to manipulate voters.

And then they attack liberal policies as making us less competitive.

Buy yourself 100 acres somewhere- buy an arsenal and bury it in the ground- put up “stay out- this means YOU” signs- refuse to pay your taxes- put “Leave me the Fuck Alone” signs on yer pickmeup truck and Voila! yer a libertarian.

Goopers ignited a firestorm among seniors when they supported Clusterfuck’s “privatization of social security” scheme- a scheme that McBush unaccountably is supporting again. When Seniors find out about it, there will be hell to pay- and the AARP will make sure they know.

Seniors may not be keen on gay marriage- but they HATE fuckin with their social security fund.

Interestingly enough, the Street is dem territory this year- with Obama being the number one donations recipient.

It might be that they grew up in a time that the media could be trusted. Consider that that trust has carried over into the new media(did that last sentence even make sense?)

OT-but a nifty little document (PDF) for you wonkish types…

“Congress’s Contempt Power: Law, History, Practice, and Procedure”
updated April 15, 2008

Lots of seniors just get GRUMPY—they’re pissed off about life in general and it affects their politics…

They love flags that they fly everywhere (and forget to take down at night). They will often support violence cause they’re just pissed off–lots of eagles on those 15 year old Lincoln Town Cars.

My best friend’s mom just died. His dad is in his late eighties. He has to catherize himself twice a day and is about to lose his driving license…

Put yourself in HIS place- you’d be grumpy too!

If The Manchurian Candidate scared you, you need to stay well away from Seven Days In May.

BC

Interestingly enough, the Street is dem territory this year- with Obama being the number one donations recipient.

They may be greedy, but they’re not stupid.

True- they aren’t about to pour more good money down the gooper rat hole.

You know, of course, this means I’ll have to see Seven Days in May

Saw Warren Buffet and Bill Gates bein interviewed on Fox Business last night. Warren’s a BIG Obama supporter.

(Apologies to Christy for the O/T’s)

On the economics and approval ratings–

Many, many people in my state who were in the middle class are now living in mobile homes. I see some really sad looking parks where trash is strewn everywhere, windows are boarded up instead of being replaced with glass, there is no grass to speak of–just mud, and the general atmosphere is one of despair.

In addition, a LOT of homes are for sale. I am presuming that these folks have either lost their jobs or are in hard economic straits because of the higher food and gas prices. There are also a LOT of vehicles, boats, etc., for sale…folks are hurtin’.

I hope you will be careful generalizing about seniors…the boomers are in that group, you know. Ageism is as repugnant as sexism, dontcha know?

On an PBS about the senior Bush there was a great segment of Jim Baker. He was very forthright saying They all used to ask Why didn’t you got on to Bagdad….NO ONE asks me that now. He almost sang with contempt and “I told you so.” He probably was not at the wedding.

Hey–I’m old enough that I’ve earned the right to be agist.

I think the original Invasion of the Body Snatchers with Kevin McCarthy says it all.

Rachel Maddow calls it an “ethical freakshow of a univers”. Dorothy Parker’s “What fresh hell” line applies on a minute to minute basis with where we are now. I can’t figure out if we are frogs being boiled steadily in this country, or simply have collective PTSD.

They say living with an addict is like being in a car accident every day. You live in shock. We have an addict-personality president and administration. We have an addict-personality waiting on line for the next term. Do you know that in the Alanon organization, there is a rule that double winners cannot hold offices (double winner is an aaer and an alanonic) because the aaers were RUNNING alanon.

Sen. Jay Rock for Obama wants telecom immunity still… back deals… can Obama take a stand against???

When we talk deciders… are we talking ultimately Diebold machines? That used to feel like paranoia. Not any more.

Love this site. Am new. Hard to be concise posting near end. TY ALL!!!!

I think it’s fair to generalize on the social security issue. While there are some seniors who support the gooper position- they are few and far between.

On the GRUMPY issue- I was careful to say “SOME”- but I am discovering recently that this is a pretty big segment. It has consequences- and beyond politics.

Yep – seniors’ access to the toobz is growing, and I’m glad the seniors in your life have taken that step (sadly, still can’t get my folks to make the jump).

To me the fact of the GOP’s adroit use of emails targeting seniors is the latest example of how the most regressive and authoritarian powers in the US use newly developed electronic media to control public perceptions and policy….continuing a trend well-established on radio in Father Coughlin’s era. Joseph McCarthy played the same game, but simply moved the playing field to TV.

It might be that they grew up in a time that the media could be trusted. Consider that that trust has carried over into the new media(did that last sentence even make sense?)

Helpless Dancer’s question led me on a (fruitless) search for a study that examined credulity re MSM as a function of age, with the finding that seniors were indeed (as a group) least likely to question the authority of broadcast media (IIRC, the study did not consider tooobz news). [Though I can’t find the study, I think it did suggest one possible explanation for the trend is that those now in their 70’s and eighties formed their relationship with media in an era of greater confidence in major institutions.]

If the same trend also carries over to seniors (once again, as a group) and the toobz, that would further help GOP’s use of disinformation emails targeting seniors.

So sad to see the generation that defeated Nazism now deliberately targeted by Goebbels’ techniques and by his latter-day imitators in the GOP.

Seniors are now less composed of the WW2 generation and more composed of the Korean War generation. They have ALWAYS been a bit different in my opinion from those who came before (greatest) and those who came after (boomers).

Alot of people were against the privatization…probably even more now.

On the Grumpy issue, far be it from me to try to change your mind. Frankly I know alot of grumpy people. Your classification/characterization is still a generalization with unfortunate innuendos that for instance, a gay person, perhaps, a woman, would not welcome.

Of course it does. Great movie, though. Burt Lancaster as James Mattoon Scott…

BC

I’m grumpy and I’m not even hardwired to the toilet yet.

Helpless Dancer’s question led me on a (fruitless) search for a study that examined credulity re MSM as a function of age, with the finding that seniors were indeed (as a group) least likely to question the authority of broadcast media (IIRC, the study did not consider tooobz news). [Though I can’t find the study, I think it did suggest one possible explanation for the trend is that those now in their 70’s and eighties formed their relationship with media in an era of greater confidence in major institutions

Yes! My thoughts exactly. But–let’s make it clear that *anyone* can be vulnerable to persuasive techniques…and that those in advertising spend a lot of money on studying how they can influence people. That’s why they get paid the big bucks.

I guess I don’t understand what you are saying-

I was making no comment about gays or women

I said that there are a lot of grumpy old people and that it’s an important fact in getting to understand how they vote.

There are damned good REASONS why the grumpy are grumpy..health problems, economic problems, losing spouses, etc. As we say here in the retirement community “Old age ain’t fer sissies”

Also–using my mother as an example–she used to be quite efficient on the pc, but now prefers not to be on there. While she was on, though, she received emails that reinforced the status quo…so she got it while watching TV and when on the pc.

Totally agree, boogiecheck. Goebbels’ professional heirs – the PR/manipulation industries – can and do find the strategies and techniques best suited to manipulate any age group….no age cohort (including my own) is inherently less credulous than another.

I strongly feel that a class should be taught on counteracting persuasive advertising in every school and for those not in school anymore–in community centers nationwide.

OT…Weren’t you writing about the Farm Bill a few days ago? I have lost track of its progress; anything more we should know/be doing? Thanks

Good idea. I could use a refresher course myself.

Great movie with seniors Young@Heart… you’ll smile, you’ll cry…. Old age sure ain’t for sissies!

I would love to teach it, too. Knowledge is power.

Meant as reply to tw3k

I’m out, folks. Thanks for the usual brain exercising.

Cool, I’ll enroll in your class!

More to your point tho, I wonder if elder hostel does any outreach like that?

See ya boogie.

The two voting groups that we KNOW are going to grow dramatically in the next couple of decades are hispanics and over 65.

The political party who figures out how to win and retain them both through understanding them and their needs will dominate american politics for decades.

Hi Revbev….so glad the farm Bill piece was useful…I just returned from a week of Ruckus camp (no toobz access) and I’m trying to speed on TFB. Hoping to have a post when I’ve figured out what’s happened….

and boogiecheck, I’d like to enroll in that class, also….

revbev at 144–the consolidated/merged bill is supposed to be released today, didn’t check yet………

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”The bill won’t be publicly available until Monday morning, when it will be posted on the House Agriculture Committee’s Web site at http://agriculture.house.gov/inside/FarmBill.html
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And dmac, Thanks. I did speak to my rep, not very helpful. Then I thought I heard that W was against some pieces. Do not know the details, obviously. Thank you both.