There are at least two threads of conservative thought that inevitably foster hostility and disrespect for the rule of law - one from the corporate wing of the Republican party, and the other from the religious wing.
To corporate conservatives, the law is the ultimate form of regulation, which everybody knows stifles growth and efficiency and must be rolled back wherever possible. Just as they claim that regulations tie corporations' hands and cripple the economy, so too do they claim that laws tie the government's hands and cripple America's security by making it harder to spy, detain and torture.
But to hardcore religious conservatives, the law is simply irrelevant, because America is a Christian nation, and the Bible is the true source of all American law. Consider Judge Roy Moore of Ten Commandments fame saying things like, "[Homosexuality is] abhorrent, immoral, detestable, a crime against nature, and a violation of the laws of nature and of nature's God upon which this Nation and our laws are predicated," and "This is not a nation established on the principles of Buddha or Hinduism. Our faith is not Islam. What we follow is not the Koran but the Bible. This is a Christian nation."
And if Roy Moore seems too far out of the mainstream, we have Republican Presidential Candidate Mitt Romney saying, "Our greatness would not long endure without judges who respect the foundation of faith upon which our Constitution rests," and Other Republican Presidential Candidate Mike Huckabee saying, "I believe it's a lot easier to change the constitution than it would be to change the word of the living God, and that's what we need to do is to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards."
To the extent that the religious right views the Constitution as worthy of consideration, it is only as a poor approximation of God's law, something that should be either perfected or ignored. It is admittedly hard to square the Bible (or at least the New Testament) with the GOP's love of war, torture, and social darwinism, but as long as the Republicans take a hard line against science, abortion, and Teh Gay, the fundamentalists seem perfectly happy to forget about peace and compassion.
The Bush administration marshals the corporate argument every day to argue for tax cuts, telecom immunity, warrantless wiretapping, and waterboarding, and against any kind of oversight or transparency, and it invokes the religious argument with Bush's conviction that he's on a mission from God and answering to a "higher father." No matter what laws he breaks, he's breaking them in service to God, so his crimes are all divinely justified. Oh, and there's also that whole packing-the-DOJ-with-Regent-University-grads thing.
The good news is that after 7+ years of carnage, the American people are more than ready for a government that has a healthy respect for the Constitution and the rule of law. Hopefully they'll deliver that message so loud and clear in November that even the most timorous Democrats can hear it.
(Thanks to Dave for his help with the religious right quotes)
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yo
Yo.
hi Eli xxxxxxxxoooooooooo
they are above the law,and their poopies smell like Chanel No 5,or Allure,when they drink champagne
ma?
dang, one too late for the comedy.
The one that gets me is the TheoCon delight in the death penalty. Seems a bit odd to me to rejoice in the government sending people to meet their maker in the name of one who was the recipient of the very same treatment (after being tortured, to boot).
Hiya, sadly.
Don’t forget the Divine Right of Kings or the Bush can change the his signing statements/law without telling anybody that he has changed them! Which means its only through Divine intervention that we stay out of jail.
Rule of Law cannot work in a Democracy if the Demos don’t know the damm rules.
I think of them as Old Testament conservatives. They love that part of the Bible, but when Jesus starts talking about Love Thy Neighbor and Blessed Are The Meek, they’re all like, “Bored now.”
The Old Testament is just better spectacle, ya know?
Clinton impeachment…”RULE of LAW”….rule of law..( civil case)…any Repuklican lawbreakin…..to protect us from the terra..istas
Well, they *are* the law & order party. They’re just very selective about who it applies to.
rather be jews…..hahahahahahha,till the rapture..then…not so much
Laws are for the little people
anybody mocha,or otherwise…not in the club
same with any taxes
Eli
With the religeous right. Cleanlynous is next to godliness. Since were the unwashed masses. Cleaning us out of money,hope, and personal rights is their way of carrying on the old testament.
I am very big on accountability vs. impunity being what separates democracy from dictatorship.
well put
They only hate that law which restricts the freedom to trade or limits property rights, anything limiting personal liberty or infringing upon individual rights is heartily endorsed by the majority of them. Unless of course, it involves a perceived slight to Christianity or firearms.
the Libby trial,is all one has to see,to know the state of Laws in this country
hows your MOM today?….mighty fine i hope
I have heard the odd contradiction explained here as patently obvious. Since Jesus let himself be killed, when he could have just jumped off that cross, we have to conclude that he certainly supported the death penalty.
Hey, Im just the messenger. This learned guy is both a Sunday School teacher and a State rep. in the same glorious state that gave you W, who of course also loves that death penalty.
anything limiting personal liberty or infringing upon individual rights is heartily endorsed by the majority of them.
…Even if it’s unconstitutional.
my family had 350 acres Oceanfront,where the Bushies like to fish…it was condemed,and taken from us…
If it’s good enough for Jesus…
That’s right ’cause he coulda’ gotten out of there.
Yeah, that was *totally* the message of the crucifixion.
For God so loved the death penalty, that he gave His only son…
A Pharisee and Pontius Pilate all rolled into one. How convenient.
And for the record: with an understanding of Good Friday like that, he would not be a Sunday School teacher in my parish.
Plus, there is more than a bit of hypocrisy in this-
~~Bush’s hypocrisy on stem cells and the death penalty.~~
http://www.slate.com/id/2119512/
Aloha, Eli! Happy Mother’s Day to all the mothers…! *g*
Alhoa, CTut!
Aloha, even…
Consider Judge Roy Moore of Ten Commandments fame saying things like, “[Homosexuality is] abhorrent, immoral, detestable, a crime against nature, and a violation of the laws of nature and of nature’s God upon which this Nation and our laws are predicated,” and “This is not a nation established on the principles of Buddha or Hinduism. Our faith is not Islam. What we follow is not the Koran but the Bible. This is a Christian nation.”
My Bold Laws of Nature then why did God create Gays or Evil for that matter.
In the philosophy of religion and theology, the problem of evil is the problem of reconciling the existence of evil or suffering in the world with the existence of God, a force for infinite good.[1] The problem is most often discussed in the context of the personal god of the Abrahamic religions, but is also relevant to polytheistic traditions involving many gods. A proposed solution to this dilemma is called a theodicy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil
When confronted with the Problem of Evil Preachers cry Faith but when confronted on Gays they say ban them.
But if you want to ban something show please show the harm to society caused first before you ban.
The object of this Essay is to assert one very simple principle, as entitled to govern absolutely the dealings of society with the individual in the way of compulsion and control, whether the means used be physical force in the form of legal penalties, or the moral coercion of public opinion. That principle is, that the sole end for which mankind are warranted, individually or collectively, in interfering with the liberty of action of any of their number, is self-protection. That the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrant. He cannot rightfully be compelled to do or forbear because it will be better for him to do so, because it will make him happier, because, in the opinion of others, to do so would be wise, or even right… The only part of the conduct of anyone, for which he is amenable to society, is that which concerns others. In the part which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute. Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harm_principle
Amen.
And Eli- great post- gets right to the heart of the matter. (oh, and good quotes!)
Hmmm, I realize you are speaking of the “bigger” rights, as they refer to us as a nation, ie. spying, torture, etc. However, I was raised in a very christian household and I remember countless times being told I couldn’t do something (like smoke pot) because it “was against the law.” So it’s an interesting conundrum: they use the law to keep people in line, but yes, it seems they also believe the bible supersedes the Constitution.
I must also add that my parents saw the light in 04 and did the unthinkable (voted Dem), and now they are both for Obama.
Bet you got “Fair Market Value” too…
Peterr, couldn’t agree more. Besides the hypocrisy of the death penalty, there also is that elephant in the room called Teh War in Iraq. I’ve stopped a few conservatives cold in the past few years bringing up the Beatitudes.
they paid what my grandad paid 30 years before….
The law is perfectly okay when it is in agreement with the teachings of the Bible - or, perhaps more to the point, when it is in agreement with the religious right’s *interpretation* of the Bible.
and laws are for DEms only
Source: Fossella To Seek Re-Election
NY1 - 7 hours ago
Despite calls for him to resign, it seems embattled Congressman Vito Fossella will be fighting to keep his seat on Capitol Hill in November.
Sadlyyes@23,
They stole from me also.
The Christian Conservatives have given Hypocrisy a bad name…! ;-)
Straussians believe that religion & laws keep the little people in line.
i go look at it every so often to make sure it doesnt get developed
Eli- you use the word entitlement. Yep. I would also say extreme arrogance. Dubya- I’ll do what’s best for the American people, whether they like it or not.
Do they believe in keeping the big shots in line, or that they should have a free hand to do whatever they want because They Know Best?
(Why is it that I think I already know the answer?)
it goes further,becuase we are INCAPABLE of fending for ourselves
Yah - one of them is “I can do what I want because I know best”, and the other is “I can do what I want because I’m important/my Daddy’s important.”
Dubya has hit the trifecta.
Heh, another edition of simple answers to simple questions…! ;-)
Maybe the GOP has different levels of law for the common people their is God’s law straight from the Bible.
But for the Bushy Elite there is lazzie faire or hands off Corporations! Unless they hurt someone important. Or a Corporation instead of needing hands off needs a hand up (Corporate Welfare).
Corporate Law trumps God’s law though everytime.
LOL!
Sounds like a post?
this seems correcto
Those are the NeoCons right?
The Straussian ubermensch knows what’s good for everyone. Strauss was an affionado of Plato’s philosopher king, so he was above reproach (and above the law). But the hoi polloi needs to be kept in line via religion, laws, fear, whatever it takes to get us to follow the one who knows all.
Neocons are Straussians.
Which makes it all the more striking that the Republican party had its origin in a drive to completely eliminate an entire class of economically very important property rights. And further, to do so on moral grounds.
Not the party of Lincoln. Not any more.
Corporate Law trumps God’s law though everytime.
True. Otherwise TV & cable programming would be a lot tamer, and there’d be no dirty movies on hotel TVs.
we got a condemnation lawyer who told us it would take 15 years or so,and couldnt guarantee anything,my dad suffered poor health…but if anything is ever built their by private enterprise,ill raiswe a big RUMPUSS
My bet for McCain’s running mate is someone acceptable to the TheoCons — if not a TheoCon himself. (And this means, of course, that it will be a himself, not a herself.) Huckabee and Brownback are at the top of my WAG list of choices.
If McCain goes this route, posts like this will be much more necessary.
Thanks, Eli!
The rule of Gall.
If you can find it, check out a book called The Overseer, by Jonathan Rabb. It’s kinda spooky. I posted about it at my place a few times.
http://multi-medium.net/2005/0.....e-overseer
http://multi-medium.net/2005/06/03/more-overseer
http://multi-medium.net/2005/0.....er-wrap-up
Yep, see my 55 which ccrossed with your 54. I am reading They Knew They Were Right, a revelaing book on the neocons authored by someone who admits to being one in his youth. The sections on how Strauss presented himself, and how they thought about him, are priceless.
Neocons are Straussians.
—————–
Both a few sammwichs short of a picnic,would not want to get in a lifeboat with ANY of the above
They may hold power and be wealthy but given their success in war and the economy I know that they are not Elite Philosopher Kings:)
Huck & ‘Back are *ginormous* targets. Dave N. can probably hit them more effectively than I can, but I’ll be more than happy to get some swings in.
some of the scorn for the Law ascribed to Republicans can be attributed simply to the fact that they come from positions of heriditary privilege, or in rare cases, have recently scratched and theived their way there.
what is ‘prive-lege’ etymologically?
prive = private
lege = law.
they have a private law, a code for the elite, seperate from the code for the proles.
however, it requires some strenuous self-delusion to maintain that elite factions of the Democratic party are any different in their allegience to elite law, and their disdain for the concerns of the rest of us.
so, they are not “timorous Democrats” when they vote for the Kyl-Leiberman act, 97-0, or pass Patriot Acts I and II (Obama, D-Ill = AYE) or pass NAFTA with (D) Congress and (D) White House, and enable media consolidation and repeal the Taft-Hartley Act, etc, they are just being themselves
So the Bush Family did this then write about it sometime at the Late Late Night threads where anything goes.
I find it ironic that the Pentagon/Military has someone like Robert McCain standing up for them & KBR/Halliburton when it comes to the gang raping of a female employee, oh, but when the following Admiral gets caught cheating on his wife, holy crap! They go out of their way to go after him for this crime!
http://news.aol.com/story/_a/n.....0409990001
Why is cheating bad to the right wingers but gang raping isn’t?
Many exposed the folly of philosopher king idea long before Strauss. The author of the book, Jacob Heilbrunn, decribes Strauss as premodern. I’d describe him as antidiluvian.
what is ‘prive-lege’ etymologically?
prive = private
lege = law.
they have a private law, a code for the elite, seperate from the code for the proles.
——————
yup their grotesque lawyers apply the law,for the sake of the elite few
Cause the Rev Moon is a freak?
I guess gang raping doesn’t break the sacred covenant of marriage.
Or something…
eCAHN- thanks for adding all of the info- helps complete the trifecta (Eli)- Dubya had the Neocons whispering in his ear (or where ever). Remember the part about Dubya being an empty vessel?
Make that antEdiluvian.
Ugh. Worked outside for 9 hours today. Too tired to think straight but couldn’t resist a few comments related to one of the books I’m reading.
im not sure,exactly who,some DEm politician i believe is involved also…the property abutting our land goes for 1/2 million dollars for quarter acre lots
It’s a fine line between timorous and complicit (from the outside looking in, anyway), and I often think that the latter is masquerading as the former.
McSame said it iirc
our land past tense…sigh
now i need chocolate
The so-called Christians I know start stumbling and bumbling when I bring up the Beatitudes. It’s as if they’ve never heard of the 4 gospels. But, oh, can they quote all the old prophets from the Old Testament. That’s when I always want to ask them, “Are you Jewish or Christian?” I don’t, though.
antwho…..they make the rules…they sure DONT PLAY by them
funny their pastors are PRO WAR,or at least dont DENOUNCE it
Here’s the danged deal.
The BIBLE says that ya shouldn’t kill or steal- and so does the law of america- but the Bible said it first. Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc…one of the clearest examples of a logical fallacy available to us today.
STUPID!!
I don’t doubt that, but I read the comment 4+ years ago from another Neocon- Norquist, maybe? Or one of the PNAC gang.
Well present the facts as best you are able when your are ready.
Fire and brimstone, slay the non-believers! Bunch of hypocrites.
me kitties dont get the “rias” cause i put the heavy cream in brown rice which i mix with their kibble…for poifect …”tootsie rolls…”G”
If the bible hadn’t said so- Americans would NEVER have come up with the idea that Murder was not a good social policy.
Something about cats and mother’s day?
yea McSame called him DUMB AS A STUMP…i stand corrected…”g”
That’s why murder is legal in all non-Christian countries.
True fact.
Sadlyyes
My loss is not financially as large as yours in actual dollars. It was my livelyhood though.
it really makes my blood pressure boil,but as i say…no person,or corp,better ever build on it
Old Testament Prophets? That’s pretty obscure stuff- like Jerimiah? Are you sure they can quote those guys?
That’s pretty slick. Think I’ll go make a cup of coffee. Treat time for everbody. Don’t get started on this; we’ll get run out of town.
well that sux!
hahahahahahahahha
Awww… Eli, that’s not true, I know it’s illegal in Korea and Japan… Nice Try…! 8-P
as you know 4 leggeds are ALWAYS my preferance….humans ..not so much
Eminent domain is a HUGE issue in my vicinity of New Jersey (Long Branch). They have been confiscating people’s homes to build million dollar condos & retail development along the waterfront.
Samurai code?
Oh yes, gang raping is a fun pastime for the right wingers, but cheating on the wife is a sign of devil possession.
Or something. ;-)
And yes, ThingsComeUndone, the Moony is a Loony!
that is just WRONG!!!!!!!!!!
They must’ve got it from some missionaries or something.
sadlyyes,
Thx for overlooking my spelling. Itz only slitely worze then mi tipeng. :)
Laws of property should be sacrosanct
Heh, nice try…!
But “legal” in NJ if you can show that the area is “blighted” or “in need of redevelopment”.
OT- but Eli, do you have a kitty?
They quote all the stuff Hagee and that ilk spout. They know chapter and verse but damned if I can get to them to explain it in context. I had one female fundie come up to me at our weekly peace vigil and say that Jesus would call for the bombing of Irak, using the Old Testament as justification. Said she read the Bible every day. When I mentioned the Old Testament is also known as the Hebrew Bible her head exploded. Her husband had to cool her jets she was so furious. When a pastor with us verified my statement I thought she was going to go home and come back with an assault rifle. She was really angry. Not the brightest star in the universe.
shhhhhhh,thats why i didnt post to Sen.Reid when he was here,cause typing spelling and sentence structiure are not my forte…obviously…opinions i have many of”g”
I would be satisfied if human rights were sacrosanct.
Alas, no. Why do you ask?
Hagee’s mostly into Revelations I think- the book Luther called the most unchristian book of the Bible.
Man, I can’t believe Wakefield is still pitching for the BoSox, it’s always a knuckle-biter when he’s on the mound…!
their definition of blighted of course..so pf course having a LIVING WAGE …make s NO sense/
Outlawed in the 1870’s.
true
when the whities came
“This was the guilt of your sister [city] Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.”
– the prophet Ezekiel, to the religious and political leaders in Jerusalem, 6th century BCE. (16:49, NRSV)