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	<title>Comments on: FDL Book Salon Welcomes Jeffrey Feldman: Outright Barbarous</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeffrey-feldman-outright-barbarous/</link>
	<description>Firedoglake weblog</description>
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		<title>By: JeffreyFeldman</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeffrey-feldman-outright-barbarous/#comment-1440485</link>
		<dc:creator>JeffreyFeldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 13:48:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeffrey-feldman-outright-barbarous/#comment-1440485</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Whorf is still accepted.  On Language remains one of the most widely taught texts in Anthropological linguistics. The contested issue is not whether language shapes culture, but whether language &lt;em&gt;alone&lt;/em&gt; shapes culture (IOW: a post-structural concern).   When Whorf first crafted his model, there was no theory of habit or routine that gave his insight a broader context. Nowadays, most anthropological theory is guided by  theories of practice, such that language is seen as only one guiding factor–and reciprocal with other factors at that.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In my writing about U.S. politics, I focus on language because campaigns are language driven.  But there are definitely other determining factors, most notably imagery and social relationships.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whorf is still accepted.  On Language remains one of the most widely taught texts in Anthropological linguistics. The contested issue is not whether language shapes culture, but whether language <em>alone</em> shapes culture (IOW: a post-structural concern).   When Whorf first crafted his model, there was no theory of habit or routine that gave his insight a broader context. Nowadays, most anthropological theory is guided by  theories of practice, such that language is seen as only one guiding factor–and reciprocal with other factors at that.  </p>
<p>In my writing about U.S. politics, I focus on language because campaigns are language driven.  But there are definitely other determining factors, most notably imagery and social relationships.</p>
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		<title>By: JonPincus</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeffrey-feldman-outright-barbarous/#comment-1440002</link>
		<dc:creator>JonPincus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 03:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeffrey-feldman-outright-barbarous/#comment-1440002</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks for the info, ValleyGirl.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Is the policy online anywhere?  I’m creating a resource page on &lt;a href=&quot;http://cfp.wikia.com/wiki/Social_network_workshop:_hate_speech_and_trolls&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dealing with Hate Speech and Trolls&lt;/a&gt; for a a workshop at the Computers, Freedom, and Privacy conference and it would be great to add a link to this under the “Blog moderation policies and strategies” section.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I do think the “no flaming” rule is extremely important.  Not sure how many people here are familiar with Susan Herring’s work, but it’s very relevant - for example, her 2001 paper on &lt;a href=&quot;http://rkcsi.indiana.edu/archive/CSI/WP/WP01-05B.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Gender and Power in Online Communications&lt;/a&gt;.  Clay Shirky’s 2003 essay &lt;a href=&quot;http://shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;A group is its own worst enemy&lt;/a&gt; is also very good.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the info, ValleyGirl.</p>
<p>Is the policy online anywhere?  I’m creating a resource page on <a href="http://cfp.wikia.com/wiki/Social_network_workshop:_hate_speech_and_trolls" rel="nofollow">Dealing with Hate Speech and Trolls</a> for a a workshop at the Computers, Freedom, and Privacy conference and it would be great to add a link to this under the “Blog moderation policies and strategies” section.</p>
<p>I do think the “no flaming” rule is extremely important.  Not sure how many people here are familiar with Susan Herring’s work, but it’s very relevant &#8211; for example, her 2001 paper on <a href="http://rkcsi.indiana.edu/archive/CSI/WP/WP01-05B.html" rel="nofollow">Gender and Power in Online Communications</a>.  Clay Shirky’s 2003 essay <a href="http://shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html" rel="nofollow">A group is its own worst enemy</a> is also very good.</p>
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		<title>By: cinnamonape</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeffrey-feldman-outright-barbarous/#comment-1439954</link>
		<dc:creator>cinnamonape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 03:13:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeffrey-feldman-outright-barbarous/#comment-1439954</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Chris Jones of “The Hot Points” blog puts the Conservative View concisely: “What respectable business is going to send millions of dollars in ad revenue to people who bash the President (who benefits them), the country, and the war on a constant basis?…Liberals never miss a beat an opportunity to bash corporations as evil and crooked. Why the hell would business support the enemy.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So why would the ones that hold 90% of the wealth in this country expend any of that on media and commentators other than Conservatives? The only way I see those on the left or progressives being able to make any money from their “art” of speaking is through alternative media. Olbermann is on Cable, and that’s precisely an area where the FCC haven’t stripped diversity and where small, but significant, audiences can be reached and advertisers have to support the programs or not reach that audience. The model is more like the internet (but look out if the PROFIT model is imposed here, too…). But in the BROADCAST industry, where the airwaves are limited- Conservatives have taken total control. Progressive talk radio has been taken off the air in Sacramento, Boston, Fresno, San Diego, Madison, WI, Austin, New Haven, Eugene, and Columbus, OH. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The “profit” model simply doesn’t work when there is a resource that is limited. THAT’s the problem…Thinking that one is going to be able to make any sort of case banning the words “war”, “murder”, and “battle” until after 10 PM (so kids can’t hear them) is so far-fetched that it would be laughed at as the ultimate liberal version of a nanny-state.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris Jones of “The Hot Points” blog puts the Conservative View concisely: “What respectable business is going to send millions of dollars in ad revenue to people who bash the President (who benefits them), the country, and the war on a constant basis?…Liberals never miss a beat an opportunity to bash corporations as evil and crooked. Why the hell would business support the enemy.”</p>
<p>So why would the ones that hold 90% of the wealth in this country expend any of that on media and commentators other than Conservatives? The only way I see those on the left or progressives being able to make any money from their “art” of speaking is through alternative media. Olbermann is on Cable, and that’s precisely an area where the FCC haven’t stripped diversity and where small, but significant, audiences can be reached and advertisers have to support the programs or not reach that audience. The model is more like the internet (but look out if the PROFIT model is imposed here, too…). But in the BROADCAST industry, where the airwaves are limited- Conservatives have taken total control. Progressive talk radio has been taken off the air in Sacramento, Boston, Fresno, San Diego, Madison, WI, Austin, New Haven, Eugene, and Columbus, OH. </p>
<p>The “profit” model simply doesn’t work when there is a resource that is limited. THAT’s the problem…Thinking that one is going to be able to make any sort of case banning the words “war”, “murder”, and “battle” until after 10 PM (so kids can’t hear them) is so far-fetched that it would be laughed at as the ultimate liberal version of a nanny-state.</p>
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		<title>By: ACitizen</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeffrey-feldman-outright-barbarous/#comment-1439566</link>
		<dc:creator>ACitizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 23:22:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeffrey-feldman-outright-barbarous/#comment-1439566</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The answers to much of the conundrum that is ‘human behavior’ lies not only in our use of language but in the study of evolutionary psychology. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For millions of years there was no such thing as the….&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;remote control.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The answers to much of the conundrum that is ‘human behavior’ lies not only in our use of language but in the study of evolutionary psychology. </p>
<p>For millions of years there was no such thing as the….</p>
<p>remote control.</p>
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		<title>By: cinnamonape</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeffrey-feldman-outright-barbarous/#comment-1439552</link>
		<dc:creator>cinnamonape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 23:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeffrey-feldman-outright-barbarous/#comment-1439552</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You would stop speaking about politics, thinking about politics, and analyzing politics if you weren’t PAID to broadcast politics on the air?&lt;br /&gt;
Really? That’s why you do it? For the money?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You would stop speaking about politics, thinking about politics, and analyzing politics if you weren’t PAID to broadcast politics on the air?<br />
Really? That’s why you do it? For the money?</p>
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		<title>By: nonplussed</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeffrey-feldman-outright-barbarous/#comment-1439549</link>
		<dc:creator>nonplussed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 23:13:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeffrey-feldman-outright-barbarous/#comment-1439549</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks for hosting this, Amanda.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for hosting this, Amanda.</p>
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		<title>By: cinnamonape</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeffrey-feldman-outright-barbarous/#comment-1439547</link>
		<dc:creator>cinnamonape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 23:13:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeffrey-feldman-outright-barbarous/#comment-1439547</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Jeffrey-&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A lot of what is implicit in your argument has been hotly debated by anthropological linguists at several causational-affective levels. The idea that our language shapes, rather than simply describes, our culture was first proposed in the &lt;a href=&quot;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.....hypothesis&lt;/a&gt;&quot;&gt;Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis . The hypothesis still remains controversial and is the ongoing subject of much &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/4110/whorf.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;research&lt;/a&gt;. There’s been a lot of interest in this…do the Navaho…who have no temporal participles have a different sense of time than people’s that do? Do cultures that have only four or three primary colors “see” the world differently than those cultures in which dozens of colors have distinctive names?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Certainly “hot button” speech seems to be effective in generating emotion, or it wouldn’t be used. But there are others who argues that such exagerated rhetoric actually dampens its impact on listeners over time. When everything is a “battle” or “war” (for ratings, sales, the TV remote) it could be argued that it has the effect of emotional disattachment from REAL wars.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeffrey-</p>
<p>A lot of what is implicit in your argument has been hotly debated by anthropological linguists at several causational-affective levels. The idea that our language shapes, rather than simply describes, our culture was first proposed in the <a href="" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S&#8230;..hypothesis</a>&quot;&gt;Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis . The hypothesis still remains controversial and is the ongoing subject of much <a href="http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/4110/whorf.html" rel="nofollow">research</a>. There’s been a lot of interest in this…do the Navaho…who have no temporal participles have a different sense of time than people’s that do? Do cultures that have only four or three primary colors “see” the world differently than those cultures in which dozens of colors have distinctive names?</p>
<p>Certainly “hot button” speech seems to be effective in generating emotion, or it wouldn’t be used. But there are others who argues that such exagerated rhetoric actually dampens its impact on listeners over time. When everything is a “battle” or “war” (for ratings, sales, the TV remote) it could be argued that it has the effect of emotional disattachment from REAL wars.</p>
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		<title>By: Dakinikat</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeffrey-feldman-outright-barbarous/#comment-1439543</link>
		<dc:creator>Dakinikat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 23:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeffrey-feldman-outright-barbarous/#comment-1439543</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;thank you so much!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thank you so much!</p>
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		<title>By: Valley Girl</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeffrey-feldman-outright-barbarous/#comment-1439538</link>
		<dc:creator>Valley Girl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 23:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeffrey-feldman-outright-barbarous/#comment-1439538</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Jon, &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In addition to having great commenters at FDL, the site Administrator and a large crew of site moderators (”mods”) spend a huge number of hours reading comments.  All doing this on a voluntary basis. I’m not a mod, so I am not speaking with authority, but some of the basic guidelines are no threats of violence, no hate speech, no flaming other commenters- disagree with the idea but don’t flame the person.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon, </p>
<p>In addition to having great commenters at FDL, the site Administrator and a large crew of site moderators (”mods”) spend a huge number of hours reading comments.  All doing this on a voluntary basis. I’m not a mod, so I am not speaking with authority, but some of the basic guidelines are no threats of violence, no hate speech, no flaming other commenters- disagree with the idea but don’t flame the person.</p>
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		<title>By: ACitizen</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeffrey-feldman-outright-barbarous/#comment-1439535</link>
		<dc:creator>ACitizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 23:06:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/11/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-jeffrey-feldman-outright-barbarous/#comment-1439535</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Indeed a way must be found. I suspect getting corporatist America out of the way would be a good start. DRM is a nightmare that works for no one.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed a way must be found. I suspect getting corporatist America out of the way would be a good start. DRM is a nightmare that works for no one.</p>
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