Go Barak….:)

woot!

This thing is obviously over- VERY OVER. On to McBush.

But I won all the states that matter
with all the people that matter
for the only candidate that matters
I won in states I was supposed to win in until it became close and then I wasn’t supposed to win but did anyway!
I won in states that Barack won!

Dugggggg:)

I’m a firm believer that pie is for eating and not throwing *g*

yum, me too :)

Most likely response from the planet Clinton is don’t confuse me with
the facts, my mind is made up… just like W.

A good pie is a terrible thing to waste.;)

i guess we can call this a it-s-so-over pie celebration?

(In fact I’m making a pie today)

Clinton is going to be eating humble pie.

It’s time to target McBush, rather then each other. I suspect this is the beginning of an avalanche.

Boxturtle (I sure hope Hillary loses gracefully)

What a shame. How much free “press” has Obama got with the establishment backing him- half a billion dollars worth? Hillary bested him about 20 debates on policy.

The day he is nominated is the day I remove the D from my voter registration. The so-called left including fake liberals like Arianna Huffington have gone mad. Barack Obama is a Tony Blair or Ronald Reagan like actor.

What a nightmare. Will be voting with my feet against the feckless dreamy Dems. Ugly stuff. I can easily get over not having Hillary be the nominee- but I will not accept Obama.

Great 48 State Strategy, Howie.

You are minus me & my whole family over this one.

I sure hope Hillary loses gracefully

Even if she does not, she will claim that she did.

I’d like to think this brings us one step closer to the end of the pie fights, but I have a feeling that superdelegates don’t count.

a merry pop-in: super-del suffrage heuristic, ex-pie all audacious

mMmm pie,
chocolate, moussey, and whipped with cream.

And on to McCain!
“easy out!”

Yep–well said….time for a truce.

I’m good enough, smart enough, and doggone it, people like me! – Hillary Smalley

Concern troll alert.

Hey, leave your poor family out of this, velvet.

The PEOPLE voted. That’s called Democracy.

About time we start targeting McCrazy. Let’s start with this hmm land swapping deal gone repug

Well, there’s always Nader…

Run along now, cute lil’ troll…

Could you explain your aversion to Obama? This is not a loaded question, I’m just curious how you came to your conclusion.

I totally understand the disappointment and would have felt the same had the roles been reversed but it is all about SCOTUS.

Exactly.

Yo! Mr. ‘Creative Class’ kin yew spell Dukakis?

folks need to vent and we can only work to mend the divide and go after McCranky

Must be some of those Disaffected Hardworking White Murkins.

Me?

Wright + Rezko + Auchi do not add up to ‘change’ they total ‘Corrupt Loser’.

The key to SCOTUS is a solid, veto proof democratic majority in the senate

Is there an acronym for this…DFTT?

New name wanders in and drops a “I’m now a McCanite” post. LOL!

Exactly….’cause you do know that Barry’s promised the SCOTUS to his mentor ‘The Last Honest Man’.

Right?

agreed but SCOTUS was what was going to ensure that I vote democrat.

Target McBush….where to aim? A target rich environment can be SOOOO enticing.

Lobbyist express…Iraq….Iran…Economy…Health insurance…marital infidelity…Gas Tax…

Boxturtle (Geez, I forgot Keating 5)

Agree. I’m just wondering if it is based on the “propaganda” floating around. It needs to be addressed.

I’m supporting the Democratic nominee for President.

If you’re not, don’t let the door hit you on your way out.

This place gets more parochial every day….

See ya!

Don’t wanna be ya!

McStain is insane in the membrane.
No way in hell is he even remotely qualified to be President.
This country cannot take much more of the fiscal abuse from the illegal war/ occupation and yet people are actually going to willingly vote against their own best interest because they are rigidly set in their political belief.
Cutting off your nose to spite your face has been proven to be detrimental to ones ability to stop and smell the roses.

A career in standup is not recommended for this troll.

Barack Obama strikes me as a Tony Blair or Reagan like cipher- the secular preacher scolding is also difficult to take. Didn’t anyone actually watch the debates?!

Who is this guy? He’s black, he’s white. He’s young, he’s old. He’s experienced, he’s fresh. He’s a kid who had to eat a free lunch, he’s a millionare. He’s rightwing, he’s leftwing. He’s above all that. He’s down in the dirt. He’s religious. But he’s a scientist. He’s an international man of mystery, or was, when he was 8. He’s a community organizer who drives a V8. He is everything. He is nothing. He is the Alpha. He is the Omega. He is the Messiah. He hangs around with ex-terrorists, colorful characters & Kennedys all in the same week. He’s in the know. He’s the man. He’s uptown, he’s downtown. Shelby Steele’s got this one exactly right, I’m afraid. He admires Reagan & GHWB fp, but is endorsed by McGovern. His bff is Oprah and he sweeps academics off their feet.

I swear to god, barring Karl Rove strapping an accent & cowboy boots onto George W. Bush, I have never encountered another public figure more contrived than this. Particularly that last refusal to debate.

A dangerous game at a critical time. This temptation to forcibly birth a myth at the cost of pragmatism is sincerely frightening. The worst of it is the continued mass hallucination of the media, where a 50/50 split is reported as 99/1.

Strange, unpleasant days. Not at all what I was envisioning in the post-bush era. There’s a weird blame the govt thing I pick up a lot in his remarks that is not going to fly too well outside the rarefied realm of the lefty blogs. And I don’t think he’s far left at all- I think he’s precisely what a winger would have been in the 80s with a sprinkling of lives a political life in Chicago politics & some identity politics & a whole lotta relgion in there. But what do I know.

Just left shaking my head here at the so-called new left.

Sorta EPU’d…Does anyone have any ideas who the “retired former covert CIA agent” is that decided to spread the runmors on the net about Obama being a Muslim and attending a Madrassah? According to the McClatchy News, who actually interviewed him, this guy decided to fashion a “Swift-Boat” type group with several other ex-agents and others (that he called the “Crusade”) back in 2006 to spread these false tales on blogs and web-sites.

I will bet you 10:1 that Larry Johnson knows who it is!

I call it seagulling. It comes from out of nowhere, squaking and making a tremendous mess. They it flys off again, leaving the mess for others.

Boxturtle (The less charitable might call it Trolling)

No kibbles.

I’ll take that bet and up you Hagee, Parsley, lobbyists, FEC fraud, reneging on vets and troop support…iraq forevah!

Shake your bootie outa here as well if your wrenching, poignant dismay so dictates.

Among the many places to begin with McSame, we can start here (dKos Diary):

McCain Busted in Land Deal benefiting Fundraisers over Environment

Well, there’s always emigration.

Interesting.

How do you really feel?

Barack Obama is not the second coming. He’s a politician. And if we’re listing them in order of corruptability I’ll put him down third on the list of people still running. OK?

If you point out flaws about Obama, fine. But that doesn’t take away the fact that McCain is insane.

So?

It will but it could also just be raw emotion that will abate. I was distraught when Kucinich dropped out and Edwards as well. I mourned their loss for a week or two and then came to my senses that we need a dem in the WH

Your brain must hurt from Obama’s defiance of your stereotypes.

You are not a Democrat. I dont expect you to vote Dem.

I’m sorry you feel that way. I’m certainly not going to tell you your wrong as it is your feelings to have. I will say that on the measure of being progressive Hillary isn’t swimming in it herself. memeber of the DLC, voted for the war, this gas tax silliness, etc. If the definition of liberalism has moved to envelope those things as a definition of being, I’m no liberal.

I usually vote based on debate performance. I look for folks that REALLY know issues. Can come up with demonstrable plans based on facts and figures. I have listened and listened and listened to Barack Obama. He speaks in generalities. He says one thing in speeches then his advisors, which come from the most extraordinarily conservative think tanks tell lobbyists and stuff the exact opposite. He says he doesn’t take lobbyist money but takes the money of lobbyists wives and bundlers from the big corporations. We continually loose elections when we put forward a candidate that only appeals to about two slices of the democratic pie. I’m an economics professor, I listen for solid wonky policy suggestions. I have heard none from this guy. His voting record is sparce. He has spent more time running for president than representing the voters that sent him to WA. He is going to have to work for my vote. I much more likely to sit this one out frankly. And you can call me all the names you want … I’ve been getting used to the abuse for about six months now. It ain’t working on me.

It’s the fear of the “unknown”, coupled with not bothering to find out the facts, after the propaganda machine tells you what you should be afraid of.

Your choice but keep your mind open.

What kdh22 said.

How ya been, kdh22?

I’ll be in your neck of the woods mid June.

This thing is over

It’s McBush or Obama-

Pick one or stay home….

No point in discussing those who didn’t make it.

I absolutely agree! Obama is a man for all seasons; a renaissance man, if you will. What a breath of fresh air! What a break from the past 25 years!

Excellent observations! Great to have you on board, velvetdays!

Five paragraphs and you managed to avoid ALL the issues that drive this race, Iraq, Economy, KStreet, Health Care, FISA, Campaign Finance … .

Yep the trolls are in high alert these days…they must be really rattled that democracy is actually working a little bit.

I posted on Cliff’s blog about a caller who said she was for hillary but now she’s for mccain. she just couldn’t vote for Obama because of how “disorganized” the dems are. hahahaha. Ed Schultz repeated it back to her in disbelief and said “so you’re going to vote for someone so fundamentally different from Hillary because the democrats are disorganized? That makes no sense to me.” She got a little tripped up in her illogical call. “No, but Obama can’t win, so I’m voting for mccain…” Huh? “so you’re going to vote against health care, for the war, all teh things Hilary stood for because Obama ‘can’t win’?”

It was so totally fake. Trolls on the loose.

I totally respect your opinion. It will be interesting to see if things become more specific as the race turns toward confronting the other party. We shall see.

Stay The Corpse!

Different organizations have different scores. Democratic Convention Watch, which provides the numbers Kos is using on the DailyKos front page, still has Hillary up by 5.5, but the count is closing. Part of the reason for the difference seems to be that Demconwatch has tighter criteria for changing the count, like strong confirmation requirements for delegate switches.

I can’t judge someone on debates because that is akin to judging a student based upon their tests results. Some are just good test takers while others excel in other areas. I wouldn’t dare call you out of your name. I can only hope that as time passes and you see the alternative and not sit this election out. We need every vote (can’t take any votes for granted).

My mind was open from the first time I heard him speak at the Dillard University graduation down here in New Orleans right after Katrina. I know who gave speeches down here and I know who helped us. Like i said, i prefer solid policy knowledge and proven records of action on progressive issues.

So you’re going to support McSane?

Feingold dropped out long before Edwards.

I have one goal. Out with the Neocons 4evah and that includes McGigalo.

Yes and that this has been a very divisive primary. Positions have hardened and people are taking it very personally. All the more for ending this and start unifying the party for the sake of the country, the middle and working classes, our children, the people of NOLA. There is so much at stake besides our own personal ‘hurt’ feelings.

A solid majority in the senate would solve that also … with leadership with a spine. There’s been opportunity for the last two years in the senate, and I do not see much progressive leadership at all. Albeit, a few congressmen, like Conyers, have been doing some good things. Maybe, Barney Frank. But most of our senate leadership have been out running for president instead of cleaning up the bush/cheney/rove/rummy/wolfie/etc mess

I shared your concern earlier in the primary season. Obama is my choice because what do we have?

McCain
Ron Paul
Nader
Barr (who?)
Obama
Clinton

I do not want another Clinton or Bush in the white house. Just my stand for democracy.

no, my vote won’t make any difference anyway, there is no way Louisiana will go blue this year, it did with Bill Clinton, but they won’t, the way it’s going … I’m going to leave it blank for the first time every, I was sucked into voting for Dukkakis, Kerry, second term of Jimmy Carter, and I recognize the trend, frankly I’d be fighting for an Al Gore/John Edwards ticket if I went to the convention… we KNOW he’s electable

Ron Paul, Nader, and Barr will pull votes from McBush.

1,837 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Blue Texan and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

As a result of this long and wonderfully contentious primary campaign that included a number of VERY good candidates that collectively represented all of the major elements of what should be the Democratic coalition, I believe that this primary is as close to a democratic process for nominating a national candidate as we have ever had in this country. Think about it. Since as we didn’t have an early “Super Tuesday” that shut the process down before it could get underway, we ended up with a perfect medley that gave party activists (caucuses), partisans and new voters (primary elections) and invested elected office holders (super delegates) a voice. It was democratic because not one of the three mechanisms was enough to determine the outcome and the longer the process went on the more folks became involved – now THAT’s democracy!

When this whole thing moves into the realm of history and doctoral dissertations, I think we’re gunna find out that America and American democracy owes a whole lot to one Dr. Howard Dean…he stood up to the institutional forces of corporate power in the Democratic Party and kicked their asses and made sure that there was time and space for people to get a good and honest look at the candidates.

Now in this last week, as a result of this process and the empowerment of the Democratic Party base, we have had a practice drill in confronting the politics of fear and political terrorism and have seen that the broad base of the party will reject such tactics.

Thanx Dr. Dean…now let’s get Al Gore back on the ticket!!

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THERE ARE MORE OF US THAN THERE ARE OF THEM!!

Hey velvetdays, stop flaming Arianna. She recently reported Insane McCain did not vote for Yoonitary-Kommander Guy.

The story seems to be confirmed by other witnesses. That is funny.

“He was going on and on about how horribly unqualified and untested Bush was, how the campaign had attacked his family,” said Whitford, a registered Democrat. “Someone said, ‘If he’s so terrible, why did you support him?’”

McCain replied that as a member of the GOP, Whitford added, he always intended to back the party’s nominee. Then, the actor said, someone asked McCain whether he had cast a vote in favor of Bush.

“He put his finger up to his lips, shook his head and mouthed, ‘No way,’” Whitford said.

And how, specifically, was Obama personally mandated with “helping” you?

And, is it realistic to expect one person to be all things micro-detail policy-wonkish? Yeah, that got Jimmy Carter real far. And the Billary policy record is not all that reassuring either. Maybe a smart leader who can get people to consensus is a marginally better choice.

Here’s a reason why a lot of “fake liberals” and ex-Republicans, and present Republicans will join a coalition headed by Obama: the war. Over 70% of the public is opposed to this venture that Clinton voted for.

There are, in fact, some Clinton supporters, and, more importantly, donors, who really will vote for McCain. They’re the ones who support this war.

why not have both? We need both. People of NOLA aren’t going to be helped under the repugs. That is evident. They send the first lady to criticize Myramar for the very thing they are guilty of. I never in my life want to ever see a POTUS eating cake and clearing bush while many of my fellow citizens are drowning.

O/T -

Maybe the Bu’ush/Cheney route to Teheran goes through Beirut…

Hezbollah gunmen seize control of Beirut neighborhoods

BEIRUT, Lebanon – Shiite Hezbollah gunmen seized control of key parts of Beirut from Sunnis loyal to the U.S.-backed government Friday, a dramatic show-of-force certain to strengthen the Iranian-allied group’s hand as it fights for dominance in Lebanon’s political deadlock…

I live in the ninth ward. I did not flood. I do not ‘need’ help. But if you come down here, you can see home much ‘help’ this place needs. There is no grocery store around here. There are no health centers and hospitals. Schools are still a mess. A majority of neighborhoods outside of the river zone are mostly abandoned. None of the fancy speeches I heard down here helped. Frankly, Qatar’s been more more helpful than most of our representatives have been and I’ll add the adminstration to that list also.

Can I have some of what you’re drinking?

There isn’t going to be a “solid” liberal/progressive majority in the Senate or the House. It isn’t happening until we reduce the corporate money that currently determines who wins the elections.

A smart leader has answers to specific problems, not generalities with a feel good spin …

We have so much to do, so much to clean up and i’m sure much to learn of when the dem takes office. I can only imagine what lies beneath the water

Unlike some here, I am very interested in what you have to say. As will be shown in WV on Tuesday, there are a great many Democrats who are still not sold on Obama.

My question to you is what could Obama do that would convince you to vote for him?

I am quite familiar with the travails of NOLA. My wife worked for Shaw Group, Director of Quality for the Environmentla Division. She spent the entire fall post-Katrina working 16-20 hour days, 7 days a week, working on the emergency response.

There is no grocery store around here. There are no health centers and hospitals. Schools are still a mess. A majority of neighborhoods outside of the river zone are mostly abandoned. None of the fancy speeches I heard down here helped.

And, this is precisely Obama’s fault? Oh, my Bad.

Norske, thanks for this. ‘Tis true what you say and we don’t hear it enough. As with my 9 year old, it’s all about complaining about what isn’t and not enough talking about what is.

I think it is important to hear all sides. The more information the better for everyone in the long run.

My question to you is what could Obama do that would convince you to vote for him?

Obama’s being the only candidate other than McBush would cinch it for me. I was orginally for Edwards.

Obama or McBu’ush. Your choice.

I think we’ve been doing a pretty good job of picking up seats in a variety of places. It’s going to be slow going to wring them all out. The populace is showing more and more signs of supporting a progressive agenda. Down here, we just sent a democrat to congress from a solid republican district in a special election. He isn’t progressive, but he’s not going to be as bad as the jerk he replaced.

On May 10th, Barack Obama is launching Vote for Change, an unprecedented 50-state voter registration and mobilization drive. More than 100 events will be held across the country that day. Obama volunteers will register new voters as the start of a six-month voter registration drive.

We can change Washington if more Americans get involved, get registered and show up to vote on November 4th. If millions of new voters get involved, a powerful message will be sent to the special interests that dominate the old politics. This is an important time to find more people in your community to register to vote. To attend a May 10th Vote for Change launch event in your area, click on your state above.

Recent voter registration drives have registered more than 200,000 new Democrats in Pennsylvania, more than 165,000 new Democrats in North Carolina, and more than 150,000 new Democrats in Indiana. Those numbers just scratch the surface of what’s possible.

Democrat living abroad? Register to vote from where ever you are.

More here

We need to get folks registered for November. Let’s blow up the dem roll.

they just released a poll that clint is ahead in W VA by 43 points on CNN

If we leave Iraq the region will become destabilized!

That and a bombing in Turkey today.

The summer of conflagration is on target.

-G

We need to get folks registered for November. Let’s blow up the dem roll.

we need to get rid of electronic voting and we need to make sure there is more then enough hardware in democratic precincts

we also need some poll watchers and we need to stop caging

I went Biden –> Edwards –> HRC –> Obama.

Biden flamed out, as did Edwards.

Sniper Fire was the deal-breaker for me. Now buttressed by “hardworking white Americans.”

I see no other choice.

I’d appreciate hearing something other than generalities when he speaks. He was interviews by wolf blitzer yesterday on ‘issues’. he never comes up with anything specific.

Like the gas tax holiday? Like “obliterating” Iran?

A “smart” leader sometimes holds his cards close to the vest, and always avoids narrowing his options by needlessly alienating people and saying things that can’t be unsaid.

But that’s not going to convince you. How about the likelihood of Clinton versus Obama of ending the war? Read about their foreign policy brain trusts.

did you see that hezbollah blew up a tv station today? they’re on the verge of a civil war in lebanon

I am convinced that Obama will do the best for us, for our country, and our Constitution. I do not have that certainty about Hillary. Many of the candidates would have been fine with me. Obama is not some sort of mythical figure. He is a human being like all of us warts and all. He can’t succeed if we don’t help him.
But his skin color will not change and some people just can’t deal with that. It’s their loss.

Afternoon, all-
I don’t care about the policy specifics right now, since the one thing we know for sure is, the situation will have changed by January. Someone who will generally support positions I find tolerable is all I ask for at this point. I’ve admired HRC for many years-and I would rather have her appointing SCOTUS judges than any Republican I can think of-but policy-wise, one generally knows what they will get from her-more corporatism, more triangulation, and more “Bosnian sniper” embroidery. What will we get from Obama?
Nothing to lose, and possibly much to gain.

What do you mean about “specifics”…specifically? Could you give an example..say Iraq or healthcare…what do you want to hear from a candidate?

Go here.

Get back to us.

Obama’s being the only candidate other than McBush would cinch it for me. I was orginally for Edwards.

This sums up my position. whoever becomes POTUS, I’m sure I will be disappointed by 1/21/09 because there is just so much crap to clean up.

I have faith in his ability to pick good people for Scotus. I also think he’d be great on Scotus.

As Americans we MUST keep our eye on the real goal here. This country cannot survive another 4 years of neocon rule. As Democrats, we must unite for the REAL fight – to save our country!

That was the station run by Hariri who’s the anti-Hezbollah wing of Lebanon.

There are reports that the US hopes to internationalize this matter and bring in NATO.

Seeing as the last time that happened the US lost 260 marines and seeing that NATO is reluctant to pony up what the US considers sufficient forces for Afghanistan…Good luck.

It seems this may be the beginning of the final neo-con gambit in the Middle East. Israel is going to be hitting Syria soon and we’ll see what Iran does after that happens.

-G

He says he’d renegotiate NAFTA. What exactly is it he expects from International trade policy? Which points does he disagree with? What kind’ve tax policies would he adopt to stop manufacturing and other jobs from going over to other countries? Does he support trade barriers, tarrifs, quotas? Just one issue that was talked a lot but I never really heard any grasp of any of the issues, and believe me I KNOW international trade theory and policy.

Hear, Hear!!

Barack Obama on the issues

But, lets face it, no candidate is going to be very specific before they’re elected. The best we can hope for is to get a generally sense of where they stand. And we have far better tools for doing that now than we’ve had in the past. The above is a good start.

sometimes you have to get married just to get to know a guy better…

I’m going to go read it, but I’d prefer to hear him talk like he knows what he’s doing, rather than read materials prepared by phds that know what they are doing …

Let me expand on example of when being “specific” is a really bad idea: Clinton’s statements about “obliterating” Iran and creating a nuclear “umbrella”. The bellicosity of the statement towards Iran is counterproductive, if you presume that as president she would have to negotiate a modus vivendi between Iran and Israel (unless, of course, like some of her supporters, you don’t want that). Then the “specific policy” of an umbrella is slapdash and stupid, further reducing credibility among ally and foe.

Here is how Obama responded on “Meet the Press” — a lot of generalities and diplomatic talk, which is precisely the point! He’s being diplomatic and circumspect, because it will be his job to do that.

We would be able to totally obliterate them.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: “Obliterate them.”

SEN. OBAMA: Yeah.

MR. RUSSERT: What do you think of that language?

SEN. OBAMA: Well, it’s not the language that we need right now, and I think it’s language that’s reflective of George Bush. We have had a foreign policy of bluster and saber-rattling and tough talk, and, in the meantime, we make a series of strategic decisions that actually strengthen Iran. So–and, you know, the irony is, of course, Senator Clinton, during the course of this campaign, has at times said, “We shouldn’t speculate about Iran.” You know, “We’ve got to be cautious when we’re running for president.” She scolded me on a couple of occasions about this issue, and yet, a few days before an election, she’s willing to use that language. But in terms of… terms of…

MR. RUSSERT: But would you…

SEN. OBAMA: …in terms of…

MR. RUSSERT: Would you respond against Iran?

SEN. OBAMA: It–Israel is a ally of ours. It is the most important ally we have in the region, and there’s no doubt that we would act forcefully and appropriately on any attack against Iran, nuclear or otherwise. So–but it is important that we use language that sends a signal to the world community that we’re shifting from the sort of cowboy diplomacy, or lack of diplomacy, that we’ve seen out of George Bush. And this kind of language is not helpful. When Iran is able to go to the United Nations complaining about the statements made and get some sympathy, that’s a sign that we are taking the wrong approach.

MR. RUSSERT: Senator Clinton also called for an umbrella of deterrence in the Middle East, defending not only Israel, but she said “other countries in the region,” suggesting that perhaps Saudi Arabia, Jordan, other places in that region. Should the U.S. have an umbrella of deterrence to protect Arab nations?

SEN. OBAMA: Well, it–look, this is presupposing something that I’m unwilling to presuppose, and that is that Iran’s going to get nuclear weapons. My intention is to make sure they don’t. And the way we do that is, as I indicated before, to rally the international community, to engage direct talks with Iran, to send a clear signal about the consequences of continuing to develop nuclear weapons, but also to send a signal that if they are willing to stand down, that we can provide them with the kind of assistance that they need in order to help their people. So my central goal is to prevent them from getting nuclear weapons.

I, I’m troubled by the idea that, as a throwaway line in the debate, you start expanding the U.S. nuclear umbrella potentially to a whole host of other countries without any clear idea of what these criteria are, who might be involved and so forth. I think there’s no doubt that we need to think about what our strategic posture is with respect to Saudi Arabia, Jordan and other ally–other friends in the region. But, you know, right now we don’t have a formal alliance with many of these other countries. And if we are to develop that, we should do it prudently, cautiously, in consultation with Congress.

Hilary has been very specific. Al Gore was VERY specific… he completely blew dubya away in all those debates with specific policy recommendations and criticism.

The Lebanese army was tied up for a few months with a handful PLO militants in a refugee camp last summer…..They’d get routed by Hezbollah.

Hezbollah will be running all of Lebanon soon.

Heckuva job.

-G

Not to mention that in recent polls Hezbollah’s leader Nasrallah was the most admired figure in the Arab Middle East.

-G

Depending on who gets the nomination, women or “people of color” in Lousiana will interpret your vote as a vote against them. That’s not fair, it’s just the way things are. Since you already claim to know that your vote won’t count in the national election, why not vote for the Democratic candidate? Regardless of who it is, it’s a vote against identity based politics.

Politics is the art of compromise. If you’re waiting for really good ideas to dominate US politics, you’re in for a very long wait. It’s always about leverage and sometimes it’s about voting for things such as who will torture less.

The other option you didn’t mention was putting your job as an Economics professor at risk via non-violent resistance. I’m not suggesting you do that. I am suggesting that you consider the full consequences of “opting out” of any opportunity to vote.

Yeah, can it possibly get any more unstable in the entire region?

Dakinikat. I don’t know why this is objectionable. I would prefer a leader, who gets himself informed by phds, than a thickheaded tool who has his mind made up based on his gut and only listens to yes men who figure out how to screw everyone else who isn’t in the club.

And he lost. And he would lose today. I really like Gore and think he would make a great prez but he can’t get past being formal and appearing to be aloof. Blood and guts politics just don’t fit him.

My first choice was also Edwards. I wanted a large diameter weed up the ass of the Corporate State.

I had major worries about the Democratic Party’s inclusionist zeal, as represented by the remaining candidates, i.e., they’re going to blow another one.

But after hearing Obama question Petreaus, I’m fine.

He handles complexity with comfort, and has been blessed with a cool, deliberate temperament.

We sure as hell need that now.

Yes, and they ran nice administrations while they were presidents, too. [/s]

Obama gave a speech today, hitting on McSame for his embrace of all things Bush. Clinton wasn’t mentioned.

same old same old–

make nice, time for a truce, says the side that is now ’winning’.
forgedda bout what we said before, now’s the time for love and roses, cuz we’re on top of the world………how many times the waves have rolled back and forth and back and forth, attack, make nice, attack, make nice…..he’s ahead now, make nice……

but wait for it-

the ’other side’ expresses a concern, they’re a ’troll’……..but someone else says basically the same thing, but is someone you ’like’ so is ok……..in my book, everyone outta be treated that way……nicely. respectfully. cuz they have just as much right to breathe air on this planet as you do. and cast their vote however the hell they want to…..or not. and ya’ll outta care about what they’re sayin’ cuz i’ve been tellin ya i’m hearing the same things here in ohio……but you don’t care ’bout losing possible voters in november…..well, you should.

if the headline was obama was two super delegates behind hillary right now would you all just walk away from it?

don’t thiiink soo…yet you are asking someone else to do that same thing.

and norske-you of all people-you’ve been screamin’ for months for clinton to get outta the race, and now you’re extolling the democratic process???

cracks me up…….if it weren’t makin’ me so sick.

bllaaaeech or sorry i hit your shoes /s

You are simply unrealistic, IMHO.

Again, Obama or McBu’ush. Your choice.

Shit, yeah.

How about a carrier strike on Iran?

1,837 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..

Citizen Twain:

“Obama is not some sort of mythical figure. He is a human being like all of us, warts and all. HE CAN’T SUCCEED IF WE DON’T HELP HIM.”

Beautifully said. He is an ORGANIZER and as an ORGANIZER he knows that leaders don’t lead, they follow in front of where the majority of people they have ORGANIZED want to go.

This is called DEMOCRACY and it the the “change” Obama promises. He will be as progressive as we allow him to be. This new politics isn’t about a Barak Obama, it is about US and where we want a brilliant and effective politician to take us. The stronger we are the further he will be able to carry us.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, AND WATCH OUT FOR EXPLODING FASCISTS!!

Obama was not my first, second or third choice in the primaries. However, we cannot compound the damage that has been done by the neocons by dividing ourselves before the true battle begins. Acknowledging that there is no ideal Democrat to vote for, ANY Democrat will be better than a McCain win. NOTHING is more important than winning in November.

can it possibly get any more unstable in the entire region?

Yes. Starting with the nuclear arms race between India and China we’re going to promote by supplying India with nuclear technology, which will also further inflame Pakistan.

Ding.

LS if your still here, what do you think we can do to start bringing folks into the fold to work towards november? (Inside the party, that is)

I’d like to add this – we can’t survive neocon rule EVER AGAIN.

I doubt the majority of women down here will vote for Obama. I would also bet all the hispanics down here vote for John McCain. We went solidly for Clinton, Gore lost but was close, but we went solidly for Bush last election. Send us another Kerry and the entire state will go into the RED column permanently. I’ve also voted in iowa, nebraska, and minnesota and my family’s from mo. Those states will go red. only the big inner cities will go blue. i’m really familiar with the great fly over states. these states will not support obama for a variety of reasons.

Primary day in Maryland occurred on one of the critical FISA vote days in the Senate. I had made up my mind to vote for Clinton. Then I learned (here on FDL in fact) that Hillary was off in South Carolina during the vote and that Obama was present on the floor casting his vote. I changed my mind and my vote. Still, I would vote for either Obama or Clinton. But, it is now time for presenting a united front.

It’s about to. It seems the US is dead set on turning this into a regional Sunni-Shiite conflict….if that happens I think a lot of governments will topple.

Juan Cole’s had an analyst on indicating that the Lebanese government is about to fall.

-G

Agreed! From a Vestalite to a Binghamtonian!

you’re assuming I wouldn’t as well? but there’s something to be said about actually thinking on your feet. dubya didn’t have enough brain cells left to think on his back, on is hands, or on his head …

Your choice.

right on. i think more people will come to that conclusion when the disappointment abates.

I haven’t said much of late here on this site because as the primaries come to an end, the battle is taking its toll on everyone. Having experienced the thrill of watching Howard Dean tell America, and me personally, in 2002 that he wanted his country back, and also experienced the tragedy of what other politicians did to him, I practically gave up.

But here I am. The other thing that happened in the apex of Dean’s blog, DFA, were the arguments, heated passion, and vitriol spewed saying they would never vote for Dean, ever, and making the discussion of politics an open contact battle. I detested it then, and I detest it now.

I tried to read TalkLeft several days ago, I site I had regulally read for many years, and it cannot be read — at all — with the racial blurring of facts. And this is becoming difficult too. As an older white women, who never made over $35,000 a year working as a secretary, I first identified with Hillary. But she has lost me because she has lost her dignity. If politics is a down and dirty sport (for money and power) it could at least be played with some measure of dignity. Unfortunately no I guess.

Need another break from the obvious outrageous anger being spewed everywhere. Just my take on it.

Hey, it’s Chuck Todd and Kreskin all wrapped into one!

-G

We work to maintain a clear democratic majority in the senate. That stops a lot of that …

Fair enough.

The link at Bilbo 112 has lots of quotes of “specifics” from Obama’s mouth on trade. Worth going to read it.

I found it interesting..anyway.

hehehe…Vestalite to someone from Greater Metropolitan Castle Creek, actually,;)

Amen Grandma J.

-G

ls said-paraphrased-ron paul, ralph nader are going to take voters from mccain–

uh, no. quite the opposite around here, they hate mccain……

=====

and i have a phrase i use to friends who may come and read here when describing the lake when a pile on is happening–i say ’the hyenas are gathering’……..

one or two isolated zebras, and the hyenas provoke it, separate it and attack and then go in for the kill……….

and people i refer to firedoglake? i warn them ahead of time, shouldn’t have to really, but there it is……. i have now quit referring people to this blog.
for now.

This is just defeatism.

We’re not “sending” you anyone. You’ve elected Obama the nominee in every one of the states you’ve listed.

You’re just arguing in bad faith.

We have to stick to the facts…abolish myths when they arise…no matter where it takes us, and most of all…go after the Republicans by exposing everything.

We have to not attack anyone whose opinion is different than our own…even if they are for McBush or will tolerate McBush…better to bring out the facts and point out that a vote against a Dem is a vote for McBush.

JMHO

Estrogen Pique is going to give us John McCain?

I understand. There are a few blogs that I don’t visit anymore for similar reasons. People became presonally involved and well, we see the results. It is better to step back periodically and look at the bigger picture.

Thanks for posting

People get blinded to the forest for the trees. Keep reminding each other, we are fighting for the life of our COUNTRY. The bickering is nothing new. If women or any minority group could vote as a bloc as well as the religious right do, we wouldn’t be where we are right now.

Whatever makes you think that even with a Dem super-majority the Senate would be veto proof. I think with all those Blue Dogs, we’ll be in virtually the same place. Conservative is conservative regardless of whether there’s a D or an R behind the name. No?

You are so right. We are going to have to sniff out and stomp all the viral untruths. But we can do it. We have to do it because the stakes are too high

“ls said-paraphrased-ron paul, ralph nader are going to take voters from mccain–

uh, no. quite the opposite around here, they hate mccain……”

Ummmm dmac….that is my point….you must have misunderstood, or I wrote it really badly…

well, in terms of appointing chairs and the folks that set the agendas for legislation, the more the Ds, the more gets thru … both Ben Nelson from Nebraska, and Mary Landrieu down here from LA, were never my ‘first’ choice for senators, they don’t always push for things I want, but they sure stop a good deal of the outrageous stuff.

Oh, yeah, like this person wasn’t already! In fact, sounds like a disillusioned fan of Rush Limberger who is disappointed that his plan didn’t work so now Limberger is saying that was all part of his plan.

How I feel personally about any candidate pales in comparison to how I feel about where my country has been taken, and WHO has taken her there. THAT is where I focus my anger and passion. THOSE are the ones who deserve our vitriol.

Yep – we need to all remember what..is…at…stake here. Not that healthcare, jobs, education, etc. are not crucial and important…but another GOP administration will finish off SCOTUS and the Constitution. As bad as it is now in terms of our emails being read and our phone calls being monitored…just think about the tactics taht ICE is using against people they suspect of being illegal immigrants being used on everyone in the US…no knock on the door at 3 a.m., just breaking down doors and pulling people out of bed and arresting them.
I think that’s called Gestapo.

It could be that the only way for the HRC supporters to get it is for her
to continue the campaign until she utterly disgraces herself and them as
well. Continue in the name of democracy, continue in the name of her
showing her true colors after decades of camouflage as a liberal. There
could be damage, but it might be worth losing the veneer of respectability she has worn through.

heck, i’m still getting over the vote on Terry Schiavo, that sure didn’t show a lot of good judgement imho

Here in Washington township of Indianapolis, the most populous and highest income township of Marion County, the final score was Obama 75% Clinton 25% despite Operation Chaos. I think that ends the pie fight right there. Seems to me one side has run out of pies.

Your right. Keep reminding us, okay? *g*

1,837 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

“make nice, time for a truce, says the side that is now winning…”

No, no one is calling for a “truce”, this is democracy and the primary fight is over. Time to coalesce TOGETHER in front of OUR candidate, to fight the real enemy, the fascist power structure that won’t go out unless we knock ‘em out. If you don’t want to fight for the Democratic Party candidate for President, then that is your right but don’t come around here slingin’ shit about how unfair the process is or about how the real enemy is sooo big and scary that only your candidate who can’t get the support of all the good folks in the good political party is capable of collecting enough of the racist and fascist votes to get elected.

No, your argument about “electability” and what kinda politics it will take to win a majority this fall exposes what you really think about your fellow citizens and what motivates them. Your comments here clearly express the cynicism of the corporatist power structure and it’s failed candidate for the Democratic nomination.

No one is beggin’ ya ta join the Democratic Party this fall but the door is open to ya…jest don’t come through it into our livin’ room and throw nasty-assed sour grapes all over the carpet.

KEEP THE FAITH ANDBE CAREFULL WHEN YA LOOK IN THE MIRROR!!

Any time you want to meet up for coffee(Barnes and Nobel?), just drop me a line: htwollin at yahoo dot com.

ls–good : )

i hope i’ve been misunderstanding a lot of things i’ve read here the last few days, too…….. : )

i hate hyenas and hypocrites.

I’ll remind people as often as I remind myself! So easy to get distracted by the MSM ‘pundits’ that I don’t watch any more. I’m saving myself for the real fight!

I’ll try to remember to write when I’m in town next. Baltimore is my current haunt.

smart move. i channeled mine into volunteer work but had grown weary and disappointed. that is over and done and now I just want us to go after McCain

They ALL do that. Including Hillary. And furthermore, they consult Ph.Ds as they decide courses of action after they’re elected. Who among us has a grasp of everything needed to run a country all just filed away in their heads and ready to discuss.

And the talking heads in the MSM don’t CARE about any of that. They’d rather discuss flag pins and 3 a.m. phone calls and pastors and snipers. I don’t think we can punish Obama for that.

This is for Quakergirl.. Love to you and yours. BIG HUGS and no more pain :(

Just to be sure, we might as well nudge the undecided superdeli’s in our area so, just as soon as I refresh our yellow ribbon and flag out front, a nice shiny Obama sign will join them. Good vibes about his chances now.

norske at 164–i didn’t say any of those things, except the quote at the top……you have me confused with someone else. what you wrote doesn’t reflect anything i’ve said or done on this blog…….quite the opposite in fact.

i was pointing out something else.

that people screaming about the democratic process now were the same ones not wanting it to go on two months ago.

and part of the democratic process is people having opposite opinions and that one is just as ’valid’ being expressed as another…….

so, maybe you outta read my comment again…..

and if it WAS aimed at me cuz i didn’t deserve that lashing. that’s twice now. and i don’t appreciate it one damn bit. if you’ll recall, i’m the one who’s defended your ass, repeatedly.

***

[Edited by moderator. A reminder that calling other commenters names is not in keeping with the spirit of the conversation here.]

Hilary has been very specific

Yeah, she was.

Specifically voted for the war.

He specifically opposed it.

Which position is more progressive?

Obama has said that he would improve the labor and environmental components of NAFTA so that American workers are not at a disadvantage to exploited foreign labor and off-shoring manufacturers who can dewspoil the environments of third-world nations. Hillary actually promoted NAFTA, in its current form, to members of Congress.

You forgot to mention that he’s apparently a Rorschach Test for you. I’m not sure if there is anything we can do for you.

Actaully, on many points I think Obama has been more specific that Clinton…and less pandering. On health care she’s constantly said she wants UNIVERSAL health care but never explains how she would compel businesses and self-employed individuals to comply. She evades that discussion and simply swings into saying WHY it is important…but never how to achieve it. She does oppose a “single-payer system” nowadays, though.

Obama talked about nmuch more attainable goals and the hard issue of sanctions. That’s realistic and hardly pandering. He’s not out there offering pie-in-the-sky and saying “I’m the Messiah…vote for me and everyone will be immediately covered by Universal health insurance”. He realizes that, particularly with the economy he’s inheriting and the WAR (that was “enabled” by Democrats like Clinton) that the dream of Universal healthcare is going to require many steps.

Keep your eyes on the prize!

dmac, if yer here, ygm

I recall that Obama beat Clinton in Louisiana by 22%.

Gonna hafta put some troll repellent on my monitor.

I’m afraid you’re just way to bright and cosmopolitan for most of us. It may be why you never have any comments on your own blog and your works of olympian understanding just sort of lie there, much like a cow turd. If I don’t run across you again, I shall always remember your parting words. What were they? Oh yes, “See ya. Don’t wanna be ya!” Obviously it’s our loss.

Yeah, I’m with you, there. I hope you meant the other party. Gotta run, but value your comments.

Obama supporters need to keep in mind that he can’t win in Nov without the votes from Clinton supporters. Just keep pissing us off and we’ll stay home. And don’t feed us a line of crap about the war, and Roe v Wade. We simply need to get a Democratic Congress (with a spine) to protect us from whatever McSame might try to do.

BAC

In any negotiation you must start out by asking for more than you think you can get, in order to get more of what you want. Obama hasn’t figured that out. Could be because he’s spent what, a week in the Senate?

BAC

Just keep pissing us off and we’ll stay home.

I’m disappointed to read that you and yours have the Nation’s best interests this far back on your list.

“I have a much broader base to build a winning coalition on,” she said in an interview published Thursday. She cited an Associated Press article “that found how Sen. Obama’s support among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me.”

“There’s a pattern emerging here,” she said.

Stand behind Senator Clinton’s above quoted statement, please.