Last week our own nimble fingered Christy Hardin Smith courageously live blogged a hearing convened by Russ Feingold to examine what he is calling "Secret Law." BTW, the whole idea of secret law is kind of an oxymoron because how can a populace obey a law it doesn't know exists or know if anyone else is violating a law that they don't know exists? But I digress into logic, silly me, we're talking about Bushworld--a place where the laws of logic don't apply!!!
The New York Times is reporting that the DOJ is going to turn over all or parts of yet another batch of secret legal opinions. There seems to be an inexhaustable supply.
In a partial concession to Congressional pressure, the Bush administration agreed on Wednesday to show the Senate and House Intelligence Committees secret Justice Department legal opinions justifying harsh interrogation techniques that critics call torture.
At the hearing, a department official, John P. Elwood, disclosed a previously unpublicized method to cloak government activities. Mr. Elwood acknowledged that the administration believed that the president could ignore or modify existing executive orders that he or other presidents have issued without disclosing the new interpretation.
Ahem, that would be Mr. Elwood confirming that Marcy Wheeler has been right all along about the Pixie Dust?
Mr. Elwood, citing a 1980s precedent, said there was nothing new or unusual about such a view.
Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, Democrat of Rhode Island, challenged Mr. Elwood, saying the administration’s legal stance would let it secretly operate programs that are at odds with public executive orders that to all appearances remain in force.
--snip--
J. William Leonard, the top official overseeing document classification from 2002 until January, challenged the classifying of legal analyses. Referring to a Justice Department opinion in March 2003 on interrogation that was released this year, Mr. Leonard said that it should not have been classified and that marking it “secret” showed “either profound ignorance of or deep contempt for” classification rules. Even with the release of the memorandum, several major legal opinions on interrogation remain secret. Though the Justice Department is offering to show those opinions to the Intelligence Committees, officials gave no indication that any of the opinions would be made public.
Mr. Whitehouse, who sits on the Judiciary and Intelligence Committees, has said the administration’s contention that it can selectively modify executive orders “turns The Federal Register into a screen of falsehoods behind whose phony regulations lawless programs can operate in secret.”
That reference to the Federal Register reflects the past practice of actually PUBLISHING Executive Orders, so the rest of us would know what they said. Oh, and in olden days (read, before the Supreme Court annointed Shrub to be King) OLC opinions were routinely published, too.
According to the Congressional Research Service [pdf] Report on Presidential Claims of Executive Priviledge (Hmmm? It was updated in April 2008, I wonder who ordered that up?)
recent appellate court rulings cast considerable doubt on the broad claims of privilege posited by OLC in the past and now by the Clement Memo and the July 10, 2007, OLC opinion on witness immunity. Taken together, Espy and Judicial Watch arguably have effected important qualifications and restraints on the nature, scope and reach of the presidential communications privilege.
So, Bill Leonard says that legal opinions ought not be classified in the first place. CRS doesn't think Shrub's various invocations of Executive Priviledge are going to hold much water. It seems to me that if a branch of Congress were to go to court to get any of this stuff, it would probably win, just sayin's all.
Bottom line, there are still more Yoo torture memos out there. We already knew that because he refers to them in footnotes of the memos we already know about. There is also evidently a memo or Executive Order floating around somewhere in secretspace, that establishes that Marcy's Pixie Dust is real. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that John Yoo may have written that one too.
The hallmarks of a John Yoo memo seem to be 1) the laws of logic do not apply, 2) don't cite any statutes or cases that clearly forbid the thing you want to enable, 3) misapply and take quotes out of context from the cases you do cite to falsely claim that they stand for something (usually the direct opposite) of what they actually stand for, 4) completely ignore the real world consequences that will ensue if anyone actually acts on the fig leaf advice given in the memo.
Question for you legal philosphers out there: If we know that the leading expert on classification of documents says that a document has been illegally classified, and if we can ID that document with sufficient specificity--say because John Yoo put its title and date of non publication in a footnote--should not the legislative branch be able to bring an action before the judicial branch for a writ of mandamus to compel the de-classification of that document?
Sixteenth in a series
[Editor's note: This photo by takomabibelot features a banner created and designed by Firedoglake reader BonnieT of Austin, Texas, where she operates OpposeTorture.org.]
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LHP!
So?
What!
LHP for Congress!!
At the hearing, a department official, John P. Elwood, disclosed a previously unpublicized method to cloak government activities. Mr. Elwood acknowledged that the administration believed that the president could ignore or modify existing executive orders that he or other presidents have issued without disclosing the new interpretation.
Who leaked that info to our side and provided evidence cause without collaborating evidence I don’t see Elwood admitting anything that he does not have to?
Are the Bushies jumping ship trading info for secret immunity? Assuming their is such a thing as secret immunity (wink).
She’s running When?
LHP Snap!!!!
“If we know that the leading expert on classification of documents says that a document has been illegally classified, and
if we can ID that document with sufficient specificity–say because John Yoo put its title and date of non publication in a footnote–
should not the legislative branch be able to bring an action before the judicial branch for a writ of mandamus to compel the de-classification of that document?”
O-o-o-o, LHP! (Raising hand)
Here’s the direct link on mandamus!
This just sounds so totally cool, and perhaps a way around the labyrinthine and lengthy court battles over subpoenas, and a history lesson, to boot!
How can we get the ball rolling on this???
Bob in HI
Mr. Elwood, citing a 1980s precedent, said there was nothing new or unusual about such a view.
Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, Democrat of Rhode Island, challenged Mr. Elwood, saying the administration’s legal stance would let it secretly operate programs that are at odds with public executive orders that to all appearances remain in force.
That seems weak how can you have laws on the books that are secretly repealed? Rule of law becomes then anything the President wants it to be but the President does not have to tell you what he rules are? Did Alice Feed John Yoo a Mushroom and Grow Ten Feet Tall!
1,836 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen looseheadprop and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Drip…drip…drip…that’s the sound of the pipes beginnin’ ta leak from the fascist plumbin’. The krypto Nazis are frantic and scramblin’ around with their red, white and blue umbrellas screamin’ that the Amerkan sky is fallin’ and our daughters are gunna all be taken off ta caves ta be raped by those dirty d*rkies. Hopefully both the Senate and the House will keep the pressure up with hearings as we get close ta the Spring recess…I’m bettin’ that the pipes break and we see Senate referrals to House impeachment inquiries before the Denver Convention.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, AND WATCH OUT FOR DROWNIN’ RATS!!
Mod note: * Edited and released by mod
For Senate! I am tired of those wishy-washy dish towels we have there.
Digg this
It’s just a rumor at this point, but wouldn’t it be cool? She’s not into fundraising, though, which is understandable. I’d send her half of my stimulus check (if it ever really comes)in a heartbeat!
A Secret Society has been running America for the past eight years, but yet, we’ve been able to see them, we know their names, and we know what they look like, but everything they’ve done has been one big giant secret, because their whole intention of being in the White House before 2000 wasn’t for the good of the American people. It was to benefit their whacked ideologies of how America should be run, which is, RUN IT AS A DICTATORSHIP NO DIFFERENT THAN SAUDI ARABIA OR UZBEKISTAN.
Spit.
Berenson, at that hearing of Feingold’s, kept saying that OLC was doing a great job of publishing OLC opinions, but, said that
pixie dustnational security issues precluded the publication of some… Feingold flatly rejected it, saying that, they’re only opinions and not descriptions of ways and means of security issues… Brownback was pathetic and fawned all over Berenson…If one breaks a secret law one must justify ones self to a point in time when the law wasn’t a secret or didn’t exist in a state of secrecy. Having broken a law in secret is a ’secret law breakers’ objective in the first place as not to be uncovered as a lawbreaker secret or otherwise. As for the party of the first part, is their opinion a secret as well as the law that’s kept secret? Speaking of secrets, where is the Prez’s favorite AG?
Due to far to many Bush years, I must ask.. Is illegal classification of documents a crime? /s
A Secret Society has been running America for the past eight years, but yet, we’ve been able to see them, we know their names, and we know what they look like, but everything they’ve done has been one big giant secret, because their whole intention of being in the White House before 2000 wasn’t for the good of the American people. It was to benefit their whacked ideologies of how America should be run, which is, RUN IT AS A DICTATORSHIP NO DIFFERENT THAN SAUDI ARABIA OR UZBEKISTAN.
—————–
and the PLUNDER of our treasury to handfull of bastids….mission accomplished ..sheds tear
Off topic…
Wow. Did anyone else experience a server/Error 404 just now? I did. I panicked as usual. Nice to see your smiley faces again. ;-)
As anyone who has watched Peter Pan knows that pixie dust is aquired by paddling a pixie’s bottom. To get the amounts of dust required for their needs, I am assuming that there is a cellblock at Gitmo where they are torturing pixiers.
Yay! Get it all published in the Federal Register for all to see. Then deconstruct it to make it very clear how it happened and who is responsible; let the indictments begin.
Lurking Moderator: The site is still hanging up. Object not found… etc.
Heh, this is dead on, about Hill…! ;-)
Yep. Use the White House as the CEO’s office of America Inc. and squander what you can before you’re fired. Assholes.
We’re back. And thanks for this post, LHP. I really enjoyed EW’s Pixie Dust articles.
I didn’t see that message, but something happened.
I had to go to the home page and reload the entire post to cure it.
Well, Bush’s Department of Justice looks for Bush to tell them what to do. He’s a little ticked that Whitehouse, Feingold, and the rest of the dems don’t want to play by his rules. (Rules he can change anytime he wants with a secret law.) You have to remember who W is deep down inside.
I got it, too. Assumed the worst, considering the subject matter…
whew..then it was not just me. this is the second time this has happened to me today and I just go crazy for a seconed…
Yeah. I keep trolling through FOX wondering why he hasn’t been hired on. Poor recollection, perhaps. And I bet W never calls him…he’s used up.
LMAO!!!!
Yes, FDL hiccuped and it was panic inducing! I thought for a moment that LHP had been taken hostage because of her awesome post. Phew. Glad that didn’t happen.
Cheney sending messages. I don’t quite know what to make of it, but I’m sure its not good.
http://washingtonbureau.typepa.....ys-sp.html
Is this really any different MO then the Niger document with unknown origins, or Anthrax that shows up from an unknown origin or secret evidence of Irans nuclear ambitions from a secret location? And none of it had any basis in reality.
The hallmarks of a John Yoo memo seem to be 1) the laws of logic do not apply,
2) don’t cite any statutes or cases that clearly forbid the thing you want to enable,
3) misapply and take quotes out of context from the cases you do cite to falsely claim that they stand for something (usually the direct opposite) of what they actually stand for, 4) completely ignore the real world consequences that will ensue if anyone actually acts on the fig leaf advice given in the memo.
Question for you legal philosphers out there: If we know that the leading expert on classification of documents says that a document has been illegally classified, and if we can ID that document with sufficient specificity–say because John Yoo put its title and date of non publication in a footnote–should not the legislative branch be able to bring an action before the judicial branch for a writ of mandamus to compel the de-classification of that document?
Question for you
legal philosphersCollege Freshmen what happens if you turn in a research paperand completely ignore logic? 1) the laws of logic do not apply, you flunk
What happens if you don’t site your sources or even worse don’t use sources and make stuff up? you flunk
2) don’t cite any statutes or cases that clearly forbid the thing you want to enable, YOU FLUNK
3) misapply and take quotes out of context from the cases you do cite to falsely claim that they stand for something (usually the direct opposite) of what they actually stand for, YOU FLUNK
4) completely ignore the real world consequences that will ensue if anyone actually acts on the fig leaf advice given in the memo. YOU FLUNK
Just what College did John Yoo get his degree from? Cause my Elite Community College and 4 year State School did not allow such slipshod work.
Bwahahaha!
tin foil hat just removed here too,hope it isnt pre mature
my bold. that bit made me laugh when hugh sent me the nyt link.
unpublicized my ass. not just marcy - but senator whitehouse from the senate floor.
but i guess, to the folks at the nyt, it’s not for real unless they’ve publish it. asshats.
p.s. lhp - i have the complete audio file (mp3) of tuesday’s hjc hearing for you (the one with philippe sands)… but it’s on my ibook which is currently being backed up (so no access to email, etc until that is done), will email you later tonight if you still want the link.
yeah this is the second time today I got it on another post whats up?
What exactly made the live blogging “courageous”???
Vice President Dick Cheney, arriving in Philadelphia today to watch economic stimulus rebate checks processed at a government financial center, had a thick hardcover book tucked under his arm as he got off Air Force Two at Willow Grove Naval Air Station.
Aides said the book was “Retribution: The Battle for Japan, 1944-45,” by the British historian Max Hastings.
Reviews on Amazon.com describe the book as a brutally honest recounting of some of World War II’s bloodiest clashes in the Pacific from the perspectives of the troops - American, Japanese, Australian, Russian and Chinese - more than the views of the generals and world leaders who sent them into battle.
The book’s main premise, according to reviews, is that the United States was justified in dropping atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. “The myth that the Japanese were ready to surrender anyway has been so completely discredited by modern research that it is astonishing some writers continue to give it credence,” Hastings writes
————–
anybody here willing to chip in for an IKEA table sent to Nancy ,and Harry?
Keith talking about Hillary staff cutting book deals—things that a winning campaign staff wouldn’t have the time to be doing right now. So who would line up at the book store to buy a book by Howard Wolfson?
You have to remember who W is deep down inside.
A Cranky three year old who needs a time out and nap?
Okay, I feel better now. I did a post a few months ago about Paul Tibbets’ death and how I didn’t think this man should be considered a hero because he dropped an atomic bomb on a city. Well, you should have seen the neocons coming out of the woodwork asking me to hang myself, throw myself off a cliff, or just find a way to kill my very unpatriotic self to question this “great man” who made a fortune throughout his life on the backs of the people he killed!
My opinion still stands. There were lots of myths going around to justify what we were doing. No different today. Hell, even the stockmarket is ruled by rumors for crying out loud.
The book’s main premise, according to reviews, is that the United States was justified in dropping atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki
Cheenee porn.
could have dropped it on a nearby island,,it was awfull ,and why 2for fuksake?
I think Big Brother is having a heart attack with all these “Vinnies in an efficiency apartment” kind of reporting going on here at FireDogLake. LOL They’re panicked again. Get your Cheeto’s ready! It’s gonna be a very long election season! ;-)
Anyone with a conscience would not have been able to live with themselves after having done such a thing. Even if they thought it the right thing to do for whatever reason.
he is so OBVIOUSLY deranged just like HITLER,and he is in charge
I wished they had never dropped either of them, because it caused the world to rear up like a spider at us. Not good.
no shit,and named the forking plane after his FORKIN MOTHER …oh jeeeeeeeeebus
Not I.
1 word…..C I V I L I A N S
Analyzing defeat is useful but chances are all the books are it wasn’t my fault or if only Hilary listened to me variety. Those books would be torture to read.
cheney is about to do something hideous,and what can we do
Exactly, RevDeb. He’s not a hero in my book, but he is to the fake-unpatriotic-Americans who believe if America is killing people and people are dying at our hands, somehow that makes us all powerful and a united US flag pin nation who thinks, “My country right or wrong!”!
Sickening.
By the way, the neocons are still pissed off that I didn’t submit to their demands by killing myself. LOL *shaking head* Oh how they love death! Death perverts! Death is porno to the neocons!
(sorry for the screaming but I can’t stand the neocons as you can tell) ;-)
I’d like it too, selise, if possible. I haven’t heard it yet.
Hugs.
thanks LHP!
“At the hearing, a department official, John P. Elwood, disclosed a previously unpublicized method to cloak government activities. Mr. Elwood acknowledged that the administration believed that the president could ignore or modify existing executive orders that he or other presidents have issued without disclosing the new interpretation.”
Hell, that’s what i tried to tell my mom when she yelled at me for getting in the cookie jar right before dinner. I told her dad said it was ok, “just don’t tell mom”. But she didn’t buy it and grounded me anyway…
Over at TPM:
my bold.
Melissa Bean for cripes sake!!!!!
Not a good sign as far as his talent at choosing character. She’s as red as a blue person can be. She would be just about on the top of my list for people in need of a primary loss.
They are not going to drop nuclear bombs on anybody.
Bunker busters in Iran (probably) and depleted uranium bombs in Iraq (yes, done)…but they are not going to “nuke” anybody.
LHP:
Dontchya know? They’re fans of Dean Wormer
;-)
who cares,poorly conceived and poorly implemented…read today M.Penn thought the dem primmaries were winner take all
10,000,000.00$ down the drain
HD and SY, this was for show. If he were reading something he didn’t want publicized, the books would be in a duffle bag.
looseheadprop asks:
From all indications with the court packing that has gone on, most of the Federalist Society Judges would just deny that the Legislative Branch has any standing, Case Dismissed.
Civilians? Sha-million$! … to Cheney’s ilk, people are merely ‘things’ which have no value unless, somehow, they can be converted into … money!
Ha! ‘Bout it.
mebbe tactical nukes…whatever…i hate them muchly
will try to remember to leave a link at the bottom of this thread later tonight. but if i forget, please remind me!
definitely worth the listen (and i’ve now listened to it twice).
We are just the part of the 70%ers who have computers and free time if anything its the other 70%ers who don’t have the time to vent who are more stressed (being here relaxes me).
But imagine how much more stressed the average voter is he knows he is getting screwed on gas prices, food prices, healthcare, the dollar dropping in value and he has been silent anger building.
Big Brother is soooo screwed.
ahhhhhhhhhh prolly so…sips more ROLLING ROCK.i know …he scares me
Kafka territory.
By the way, Charlie Savage is going over to the Gray Lady. Boston’s loss.
He says he intends to maintain his integrity. I believe him.
huh? part of a caolition is listening to all folks even ones you don’t necessairyl agree with and she may well attract the conservative dems. when the time comes, we work to kick her ass to the curb but I’m not ready to condem HIS character over this. Not when there are candidates running around who are advocating their position based on race and such
They’ve ordered the residents of Sadr City to leave…! Not looking good…! 8-(
It seems that this administration really, really wants to go out with a bang. It is no use in hoping that the military won’t go along. They’ll use the AF and they would probably be all for it. The ultimate use of air power.
LOL
such as it is…
Want to hear what scares me? They have at their disposal bunker busting bombs that can enter the earth five stories down and then explode. The Lunatics we have running our nation could very easily use this kind of bomb on Iran and then say, “It was an earthquake that caused the damage” or something to that effect. Not sure how far these bunker busting bombs can travel, but I wouldn’t put it past the Lunatics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunker_buster
Gawd almighty.
Fallujah Redux
Something is gonna boomarang….sooner or later…bigtime.
It’s one thing to listen to folks you don’t necessarily agree with. It’s another thing to put them in leadership positions. Which leads me to think he doesn’t not agree with her. That is what scares me. No, not as much as Hillary, but . . .
Don’t forget the Thompson’s Waterseal.
please somebody say no to him,or slip him a Putin cocktail
Well, that is Pulitzer Prise winner Charlie Savage who pretty much single handedly kept the signing statements issue alive
Oh, I know. I wondered if that big 9.0 earthquake that created the Tsunami was caused by something like that.
They can do all kinds of thing with what they have…including influence the weather.
shit
Basically an inter-office transfer and reality with the Times, he’ll get even more coverage.
My $.02
I know. We are lucky to have blogging to get our feelings out everyday and know that others are also feeling the same as we are. I can’t even imagine what my mental status would be today if I didn’t have the Internet. Some would say I’m already crazy (LOL), but I know for myself, blogging calms my nerves and has kept me sane just as it has you.
Big Brother can screw off. I’m sick of him. ;-)
They just want to go out…rich.
leadership? she is the head whip bean counter. what is she leading him on?
(blushing)mmm, wrong Savage…
thanks for the laugh,that guy is up to no good again
Charlie has been one of the few really good guys out there. He’s been like the Globe’s version of Glenn Greenwald as far as I’m concerned. We need him to keep doing the great investigative work he’s been doing.
i hope you are right, but i’ve certainly thought they would like to trash that taboo too. hopefully that’s just the paranoia i have wtr this administration.
IRAN is TEH prone to earthquakes iirc
falluja redux?
damn. damn. damn.
Remember when the US submarine came ashore with damage to it on Guam and one dead soldier on board right around the time the tsunami hit Indonesia killing a quarter of a million people in an instant? Well, I said on my blog that I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a nuclear attack or some kind of ’shark fight’ underwater that caused it, because there was a US submarine, a Chinese submarine and a Russian submarine all in the vicinity at the time all of this happened?
Again, a hunch.
how many poor inocents will have to die this time{{{{{shudder}}}}}}
Thanks!
Yup, Their gonna do a Falluja. Echoes of VN, destrotying the city to save it.
Obama’s chief superdelegate whip, Rep. Melissa Bean (D-IL), about the state of play, and she makes a surprising assertion: Not only has Rev. Wright not posed a problem for superdelegates, but it’s actually encouraged them to come out for Obama sooner. Surprising and counterintuitive. Count me as skeptical.
Obama’s chief superdelegate whip, Rep. Melissa Bean (D-IL), about the state of play, and she makes a surprising assertion: Not only has Rev. Wright not posed a problem for superdelegates, but it’s actually encouraged them to come out for Obama sooner. Surprising and counterintuitive. Count me as skeptical.
I disagree I used to live in her district its so right I grew up thinking the Chicago Tribune was a liberal paper.
If Melissa Bean feels that she can go home to that District (Rummy’s old district) and keep supporting Obama after the Rev Wright controversy then the problem is over.
i never heard that story…cringe
egads. That is what happens when two separate thought collide.
I meant to ask what her leadership role is
Wow! This must mean a nice raise-along with prestige-for Savage.
boy Hills nice WHITE overlords love the stealing and maiming,and REDRUM
What was the population of Falluga? Sadr City is 2 to 2.5 million, iirc.
Apparently they hit an “unchartered” mound under the sea:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6801642/
Oh, okay, they’re constantly roaming the ocean recording every little pebble in their wake, but yet, a big huge mound they didn’t see and had never recorded it? Sounds fishy to me (and yes I know the ocean is huge, but come on, how long have we had submarines in the Pacific?).
omg!