It's become apparent that the Bush administration, since the defeat last year of immigration-reform legislation, has completely capitulated to the GOP's rising nativist element. As Frank Sharry remarked in our discussion last Sunday:
Once comprehensive immigration reform failed last year, the Bush Administration said fuck it, we are going to do everything the anti-immigrant crowd has wanted us to do. We’ll do more raids, more fugitive teams roaming immigrant neighborhoods, more social security records checks, and more cooperation with local police to detain and deport those arrested on traffic violations. And they did it to punish the business community for not supporting the legislation. But the folks really feeling it are immigrants, not employers. Of the arrests and convictions related to immigration violations, some 98% are against immigrants working and living in the U.S. illegally and only 2% are against employers engaged in illegal hiring.
The result, predictably, has been a rising sense of fear in the Latino community, and it is hardly groundless. There have been stories circulating -- not yet confirmed -- of ICE agents following school buses and circling around HeadStart centers, making parents fearful of taking their kids to school. The fear is so intense that now the mere presence of ICE agents in the general vicinity of a school -- as in Oakland the other day -- is enough to create a panic.
The nativists, of course, will argue (as did Mark Krikorian at NRO the other day) that this is overall a good thing -- that is, as he puts it, "attrition through enforcement is working." Another way of putting it, as Sharry does, is calling it what it is: "non-violent ethnic cleansing."
The problem, however, is that it isn't just illegal immigrants who are feeling the weight of the ICE's heavy boot. Legal immigrants, particularly Latinos, are feeling it too.
Roberto Lovato has a dynamite piece in The Nation describing this:
From the living room of the battered trailer she and her mother call home, Mancha described what happened when she came out of the shower that morning. "My mother went out, and I was alone," she said. "I was getting ready for school, getting dressed, when I heard this noise. I thought it was my mother coming back." She went on in the Tex-Mex Spanish-inflected Georgia accent now heard throughout Dixie: "Some people were slamming car doors outside the trailer. I heard footsteps and then a loud boom and then somebody screaming, asking if we were 'illegals,' 'Mexicans.' These big men were standing in my living room holding guns. One man blocked my doorway. Another guy grabbed a gun on his side. I freaked out. 'Oh, my God!' I yelled."
As more than twenty Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents surrounded the trailer, said Mancha, agents inside interrogated her. They asked her where her mother was; they wanted to know if her mother was "Mexican" and whether she had "papers" or a green card. They told her they were looking for "illegals." After about five minutes of interrogation, the agents--who, according to the women's lawyer, Mary Bauer of the Southern Poverty Law Center, showed no warrants and had neither probable cause nor consent to enter the home--simply left. They left in all likelihood because Mancha and her mother didn't fit the profile of the workers at the nearby Crider poultry plant, who had been targeted by the raid in nearby Stilwell. They were the wrong kind of "Mexicans"; they were US citizens.
And as Lovato explains, the regime of anti-Latino law enforcement is taking place at not just the federal level, but the local and state levels as well. And then there are the extralegal "citizen" threats, ranging from the Minutemen to the Klan:
In fact, the surge in Latino migration (the Southeast is home to the fastest-growing Latino population in the United States) is moving many of the institutions and actors responsible for enforcing Jim Crow to resurrect and reconfigure themselves in line with new demographics. Along with the almost daily arrests, raids and home invasions by federal, state and other authorities, newly resurgent civilian groups like the Ku Klux Klan, in addition to more than 144 new "nativist extremist" groups and 300 anti-immigrant organizations born in the past three years, mostly based in the South, are harassing immigrants as a way to grow their ranks.
Meanwhile, a legal regime of distinctions between the rights of undocumented immigrants and citizens has emerged and is being continually refined and expanded. A 2006 Georgia law denies undocumented immigrants driver's licenses. Federal laws that allowed local and state authorities to pursue blacks under the Fugitive Slave Act appear to be the model for the Bush Administration's Agreements of Cooperation in Communities to Enhance Safety and Security (ACCESS) program, which allows states to deputize law enforcement officials to chase, detain, arrest and jail the undocumented. Georgia's lowest-paid workers, the undocumented, now occupy a separate, unequal and clandestine place that has made it increasingly difficult for them to work, rent homes or attend school.
As Sharry says, Americans are sooner or later going to have to come to terms with the choice we face: deporting 12 million people, or making citizens of them. The former choice, as we are now seeing, is likely to produce an America that is more police state than open democracy. If we pursue that course, it will be an America we will no longer recognize.
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Yo Dave! Thanks for yet another post.
Sheriff Joe is going do another round up of the brown people here in Phoenix… he goes in SWAT style ….. anyone found driving while brown…. with ANY infraction is demanded immediate production of citizenship proof…
fascism lives well here in Phoenix
Geez..or how about a third option. Kick the bums (DHS) out, charge them with their crimes, and change this country into a country of tolerance and community and compassion.
The fascism is almost out of control.
I pray that we are almost through this horrible period…before it really takes hold permanently.
The hatred and intolerance is palpable.
When is Arizona gonna stand up and arrest that maniac?
Uh Rove is doing this to win white racist voters who are his base. The election is in November and Rove is still trying to shore up the racists?
Pissing off the legal Hispanics in the south might change more that a few Cuban voters minds. Florida Cuban numbers should be interesting.
Dave your work on immigration and race issues gives me hope, at long last, that perhaps in my waning lifetime we as a nation will be able to address, in a truly meaningful way the serious social ills that have ripped our nation apart for decades.
Thanks,
Mr.Cbl
Rove said a long time ago that immigration would be “the” issue…
Any self-respecting Hispanic that votes for the racist Republicans is a completely brainwashed moron. They are not on the side of Hispanics other than as cheap labor period.
Last evening I met and heard the man who probably kick Sheriff Joe out off office….. Dan Saban spoke at our DFA group last night.
Dan Saban
At least local law enforcement in my area has a tradition of not cooperating with immigration raids. They interfere with crime prevention efforts.
If we can round up and deport 12 million people here in America, then we sure as hell can bring our soldiers home from Iraq.
The only way to solve the immigration problem is to go after the companies that employ them for slave wages, because there was a time when “white” Americans were working in the fields, in hotels, etc., but when Big Business realized one day they could get 3 Latinos for the price of one white worker, that’s when the shit hit the fan.
Outsourcing should also be a crime.
Driving while brown is a serious offense here in Texas as well. It is not unique to Arizona.
As an aside we have a new police chief in Austin. Hispanic. Hired out of CHP. The jury is still out (less than a year in office) but, it appears he may start to make a difference.
Mr.Cbl
Wow. It is about time. Then throw that Arpaio into jail…throw the book at him for his disgusting behavior…and call out McCain for doing nothing to stop this degrading behavior.
Great, just great… Chase children and instill the police state mentality early on… All the while illegal employers cash in without scrutiny.
My dad was in a parked car a new Camry waiting to pick me up from work wearing a suit and a cop pulled up and told him to get out of the car and produce some ID.
A nice car, a nice suit success does not matter if some traffic cop can hassle you when your car is parked.
I’m guessing the Cubans in Florida are getting the same treatment when they drive in other southern states.
Without the Cubans though the GOP loses Florida!
And why would Rove risk Florida to make sure that he holds the South?
If Karl is so worried about losing the South then he has problems.
Problems way worse than anything we have dreamed we need a pollster and someone who understands Karl to figure out just why Karl is so desperate to keep the bird in the hand (the south) that he would risk Florida the bird in his other hand?
Good evening, friends.
I see that Eureka Springs beat me to the Digg. Join us!
Goddess, just stop allowing these Napolean types to grab power and wage havoc amongst the peoples of the world.
What is wrong with this picture. Why are these morons given so much power.. The power is “given” to them by “us”. We are the people. WE have to take the power back. We have to stop letting them do these things.
Enforce the laws that are already on the books.
That is exactly why I hate the show COPS. Nothing like getting people used to the idea of having their rights violated.
Can’t leave out Fox’s other hit; 24 and Jack Bauer…!
Rove said a long time ago that immigration would be “the” issue…
The man is desperate for a scapegoat to avoid people blaming the GOP for all the problems Bush caused but after 7 years in power I think the excuses and the appeals to Fear and Scapegoats have gotten old nobody but a 30%er is buying it anymore.
I think Rove’s ” the issue” is like “the math” Conventional Wisdom/ the Center Cannot Hold this is a Change Election!
You’re quicker on the draw than me, and probably a faster reader and typist, but we are of one mind! It is utterly shameless that Sheriff Joe’s deputies are reportedly being trained by ICE to do this sort of thing. And my understanding is that they are roaming around in the Guadalupe area like the gestapo!
If Bush deport enough Mexicans back to Mexico there might be a Lefty Revolution which is fine with me!
We’re already in a policethug state. Too many arbitrary taser uses, DEA SWAT teams with kn-knock warrants for the War On Drugs, and all the rest. Intimidation and terrorism, homeland style, is par for the course.
Still, aside from that, being an old geezer, I can see two sides to the immigration question. Yes, I well know in the 19th century there was an open-door policy. “Bring me your tried, your poor.” That all changed with Wilson. So, by the time I was born in 1936, everyone was accustomed to immigration as ‘invitation’ not a right. Even FDR maintained ‘we have a quota’ which was the justification for turning away Jews wanting to escape Hiterlian Holocaust. Even the Anne Frank family’s special petition.
OTOH, my libertarian side believes in the open door policy.
Ot …just a little pearl i found on Kos
about Cindy LOu
Hensley was found not guilty after being defended by William Rehnquist, the future chief justice of the Supreme Court…
William Rehnquist’s rise to power within the GOP isn’t well known, and his ties to Hensley aren’t even mentioned in Wikipedia. He got his start in brass-knuckle Rovian politics by suppressing black and hispanic votes in Phoenix and rose to be corrupt Attorney General John Mitchell’s lawyer during Watergate. Nixon put him on the Supreme Court as the first real rightwinger, later to be joined by Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas, and replaced by John Roberts. Rehnquist presided over the impeachment trial of President Clinton and appointed George Bush president in 2000 after Bush lost both the popular vote both nationally and in Florida.
Arkansas Christians FOR Child Abuse (they call themselves Family Council) just managed to get an initiative on the Nov. ballot which would make it illegal for hospitals to provide government funded health care to anyone without ID / citizenship.
Didn’t Karl say something about the GOP needing Hispanics if the party is to survive in the future because of the Hispanics numbers?
Now why risk the future unless you are that worried about the present?
Something has Karl scared we are missing something but what?
your cuban?
While true that they can’t old onto folrida without cubans, that whole lizard brain illegals kicks in sooooo if you don’t look like an amurikan, you must be an illegal.
Surely you jest.
The “America we will no longer recognize” showed up about 7 plus years ago.
Here is what I think is going to happen if there are large numbers of deportations - and I think the problems are going to be worst in small towns.
Employers will lose large proportions of their labour force.
Companies will close.
Non-illegals who work in those companies will also lose their jobs.
Small service businesses will lose business because many of the people that used to buy groceries or whatever are in jail, deported or unemployed.
Small towns will collapse.
People will be really pissed off.
I just spoke to a general manager of a sports bar today who said there are two additional bars they are looking to build or buy on the west side of Phoenix. He said the owners said they would have already had them up and operating (they’ve had letters of intent to that effect for at least 6-9 months to my knowledge), but they were worried about their kitchen staffing due to the new immigration laws. Recently they discovered that they could rehire some of the people they let go because they thought they may be on the wrong side of the law, but now they found out that the people they had were grandfathered in and if they rehire them within a certain amount of time, they are staying within the law. How that works, I don’t know or understand. Furthermore, I don’t think I want to know.
it is an interesting question, isn’t it? But remember, it’s not that the repugs really want them so much as they HAVE to have them to stay viable (they need the sheer numbers)
His shadow.
let the infanticide begin/
What proportion of illegal immigrants from Mexico are unskilled/semiskilled workers? What proportion are skilled?
What proportion of the illegal immigrants in the US are from Mexico?
Oh yeah — read an article this morning saying border checks have been set up 10 miles in for ‘random’ checks of vehicles =leaving= for Mexico. Any illegal discovered is arrested, and deported a bit later.
The conclusion drawn was: if you can prevent ‘illegals’ departing, you have already established a policy to vet ANYONE leaving. Like citizens …
Something has Karl scared we are missing something but what?
karl is scared of democratic voting hispanics
Or, as I pointed out here weeks ago, any self-respecting African American, either.
How these Black talking heads go on these shows to carry their water is way beyond me.
Out of 535 total seats in both houses of Congress there’s not a Black Republican to be found.
Not one.
your cuban? no Mexican but no I don’t speak Spanish
Do these morons not understand that their conning of the Hispanic vote was key to their “success” in 2004? They think they can throw the Hispanic vote away? What were they
thinkingdrinkingsmoking?Here is the title, which went through several versions before approved.
Also intends to deny immigrant children public education.
1,836 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Neiwert and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Thanx for keepin’ this issue in front of us Brother David, the only way we will get questioning of these raids is to keep up the pressure from the blogosphere and maybe folks’ll carry it into the corporate media.
OT, do any Firepups know anything about “Wordpress…” and why it is followin me?
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THERE ARE STILL TOO MANY OF THE BASTARDS OUT THERE!!
Lots of new people from San Salvador and Columbia showing up.
server hiccups earlier
try clearing your cache, citizen norske, and see if that helps
I wonder if there is any connection beteween stepped up efforts in immigration policing and the 15 Home Depot stores that are closing.
can’t let them have any power, you know
I don’t either *g* (but brasilians don’t anyway)
The Home Depot stores in my area are staffed by Bubba, so most likely not. However, I don’t know about stores closer to the border.
these are CHRIST followers no doubt? @#$%^#$%argh
And so he thinks he can scare us legal ones from voting by hassling us while he looks for illegals to deport?
Short of Obama putting Richardson on as VP I’m not sure what else he could do to motivate us to vote more!
Some more on Cindy Lou:
http://www.samsedershow.com/node/2470
How these Black talking heads go on these shows to carry their water is way beyond me
EXTREMELY BIG bux$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Lot of folks looking for work by our home depot and they are not bubba-ish at all
Actually, no. They’re not followers of the Christ I find in the Bible. They call themselves Christian, which is a whole ‘nother smoke, and pisses me off in ways I cannot BEGIN to explain to you.
Okay, just one more question. What attitudes to Cuban immigrants tend to have about Mexicans? Reason I’m asking - a Salvadorean student and a Columbian student I once had thought Mexicans were pondscum. So Rove (or whoever) might not be taking such a chance with the Cuban vote by taking action against mexicans.
Nice to see ya Norske. Please don’t stop.
I don’t take the fight to the corporate media as much as I take it to the corporate workplace.
One convert at a time.
Mr.Cbl
The housing crises is making all those house flippers to poor to rehab houses, all the housing construction stocks and related companies like Home Depot are in trouble.
Well that and Mitt Romney’s Bain Capital a hedge fund that owns Home Depot is desperate for cash seems the banks don’t want to back its bid to buy clearchannel Rush Limpballs employer at the agreed price so maybe Bain needs to cut costs to raise money?
oh dear.
That differential immigration enforcement against individuals, particularly Latinos, wouldn’t also be intended to lower Latino voting statistics would it?
My guess is most of the “illegals” (who may, by the way, be PERFECTLY “legal”) in this area are working in construction (which still booms, go figure…) or doing farm or, heaven help them, chicken plant work. Different areas, different hiring patterns. If ICE were to come to Savannah they’d probably shut down construction on all those new gated communities… never mind………
In my part of the world (border state) many of them are illegal but they do the work the americans don’t want to do and they do it at slave wages. All this is tied to labor and the repugs aren’t going to do shit because they have themselves a group they can exploit
Sure can’t.
Home of the “Ticking time bomb that makes torture ok” scenario.
Oh, pish tush, of course not… /snark
non-union workers are always easier for businesses to exploit
is why the GOP is so anti union
Where they light skinned? Even if they were not well lots of new people think oh they the racists are talking about Mexicans I’m Salvadoran etc.
They don’t know yet that brown skin or a Spanish accent will get you treated like a Mexican even if you are Salvadoran because the racists do not care.
Then there are the Castilians which are even more deluded.
i hear ya,i was being snarky,they have the compassion of a annal cyst,and shuold not decide ANYTHING for children or any human being,or dog ,or cat,ya get my drift
I don’t think the Repubs in office want to get rid of the “illegals” - they are playing to the base (and I do mean “base”). The “illegals” do all the work that the elites would not do for any reason.
shes apiece of work ,and has the reptillian SMIRK ………..ugh
Fern directed the question at you.
But I will add this. In my part of the world (South America) no one pretty much likes the Argentinians. Why? Arrogance and the whole we-are-european thing.
That differential immigration enforcement against individuals, particularly Latinos, wouldn’t also be intended to lower Latino voting statistics would it?
Short term no but long term yes some will marry a citizen and get legal that way and kids born here I think still become Citizens so long term your right but not in enough time to affect this election.
And unless they really start deporting people this drop in the bucket won’t make a difference.
If wages start going up for jobs Americans don’t want to do nationwide then the GOP is deporting enough Mexicans to effect voting patterns.
Funny lots of Irish and Poles in Chicago who are not legal.
not so much arrogance as snobby
Fern directed the question at you. sorry
But I will add this. In my part of the world (South America) no one pretty much likes the Argentinians. Why? Arrogance and the whole we-are-european thing.
You mean the we are white, the we are Nazis thing!
In the restaurant business here (and in NYC, as I recall) there’s almost a tong war between varying Hispanic nationalities (sorry for the “fusion cuisine” mixed metaphor, but it fits). You’ll find the same kind of unpleasantness going on between lighter-skinned and darker-skinned African Americans. Not that any of that sniping and battling does much good when the owner is absentee or neither Hispanic or African American…
absolutely. but it is disgusting because of how they are treated. the wages are sub standard and the living conditions (esp the migrant farm workers) is shameful.
We’re battling against each other for the bottom of the barrel. lovely, no? Institutionalized racism and we’re fighting over which group gets to be the least of least.
Racism is not a rational phenomenon.
It is simply about ‘otherness’
Mi espose esten Mexicana.
Yo soy guerro.
I have learned a ton about racism against my family and from my extended family against those who are different from them.
To a white person it might be obvious that all latin people have a common interest, but all whites have not gotten along through all time either.
Gotcha — like I said, I beat feet and encourage others to do the same. I guess you could call me a “reverse evangelical” in that sense. I call bullshit on that crap out loud all the time. The weird thing is, some folks where I work are beginning to listen to me… It must be BDS — Bush Devastation Syndrome.
There are about 25 Hispanic men standing in front of the local Home Depot every day. Right before Christmas there were probably close to 100. It hurts me just to see them and I can do nothing. If I had a yard or something I would hire at least one or two, but I live in a condo. They look so hopeless.
Hi, y’all -
I live in Las Vegas. They estimate that perhaps 25% of our unskilled and semi-skilled workforce are “undocumenteds.” A sheriff Joe Arpao here would bring the local economy to a halt. We seem to be much more lax.
I seem that same stuff every day.
yeah but even when they ae hired somethimes they are treated like shit. Not given any water to drink, etc.
Thank you. That was my point.
Okay, just one more question. What attitudes to Cuban immigrants tend to have about Mexicans?
Some like us, some don’t like us as people. But on a political level the older ones vote GOP cause JFK gave up after the Bay of Pigs.
The younger ones are voting Dem. The younger ones realize that outside of Florida heck outside of Miami that they get treated the same way we do.
Heh. Lots of chicken plants down here in Georgia. Wanna pay $10 a pound for chicken? Demand those plants hire Americans. I have no solution to the problem. At all… It’s a combination of racism, greed and classism. And it sucks, big time.
Heh, that reminds me of this elderly gent who I ran into while shopping. I’d heard a couple of ‘amens’ and ‘we need to do it now’, and I wondered what caused the ruckus… Lo and behold, he had an ‘Impeach Bush/Cheney’ t-shirt on…! ;-)
Very true. Something very fishy is going on.
A terrible economy, extremely unpopular war, huge deficits as far as the eye can see, scandals and corruption non-stop, a president with historically low approval ratings…
Yet McBush is running neck and neck with either Dem candidate.
That’s total bullshit, and defies any and all logic.
But then again, stealing elections is nothing new to this amoral bunch.
Agreed. I am not personally bothered by the sight of hispanics on my street corners – per se, that is. The exploitation of them bothers me, both by employers and politicians.
Most people (people with any other options) will not take those jobs no matter what the pay. Shop floor jobs in meat processing are horrible, horrible jobs. Where I live, those jobs are union jobs and pay well considering the skill levels - and they still can’t get staff, even when they recruit overseas and bring people into the country on a citizenship track.
Fighting over a neighborhood or customers is one thing but when poor people or oppressed people vote GOP against their own economic interest then things are weird.
The Cubans for a long time voted GOP cause they felt betrayed now they are realizing that the GOP laughs at the brownies at their fancy parties.
Yet McBush is running neck and neck with either Dem candidate.
That’s total bullshit, and defies any and all logic.
But then again, stealing elections is nothing new to this amoral bunch.
Yeah I do not believe those polls at all.
Isn’t it strange that the righties don’t ever talk about getting rid if “illegal” Asians - and there are lots of those here in Cali.
Okay… I’m going to call it a night because I read a study that said that obesity could be correlated to getting too little sleep. If I leave now (like a good girl) I’ll get the 7 or 8 hours I’m supposed to before the alarm clock screams at me at 5:45.
I’ll let y’all know if a regular 7 or 8 hours helps me drop the 5 pounds the scale tells me I just met! Sleep well if you’re an Easterner, and play nicely if you’re left of here. See y’all in the morning, with coffee and breakfast.
Aloha, Marion!
BDS! I’m seeing a bit of that at work too.
With the promise of a continued Cuban embargo, the GOP has the votes of Miami Cubans. Miami Cubans get asylum seeker status which permits them to stay legally (until the Cuban government is ousted - its been 48 years now) in the US. Food Stamps, Medicaid, housing allowance, and WIC are some benefits they recieve that no other immigrant group is entitled to receive. In fact, any other hispanic who is here without documents is illegal.
Seems that Rove has decided to abandon pandering to hispanics in favor of nativists (rednecks). The R’s will still get to keep Florida b/c of Miami Cubans and mean old wealthy retirees.
It does seem like “unskilled Mexican taking away American jobs” is the image most people have of illegal immigration.
Which reminds me that Obama hasn’t even campaigned in Florida and Michegan. Bet that’s coming soon.
just you wait, they’re next. repugs must have a menace to vanquish
which is ironic because in Mexico the central americans take the jobs the mexicans don’t want. they look indigenous and are subject to horrible racism there. I’m telling you, the gift of Imperialism/Colonialism keeps on giving
And that will tie in SO well with St. McSame’s experience with the people he’s been know to call “gooks.” (Now I’m REALLY out of here!)
I recollect a Chinese man beaten to death by a recently laid off Detroit auto worker in the 80’s.
Mistook him for Japanese as I recall.
Won’t take long to work hate around in that direction again.
After 9/11 there were many incidents against Indians because some people thought they were Arabs because they wore a turban - ignorance is so dangerous.
Hmmm…interesting that since JFK, there has been Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush41, Bush43…none of whom have done anything about Castro..whereas, there has only been Carter and Clinton on the Dem side. Besides, some people think JFK got wacked by the mob because he didn’t “do” something about Cuba, where they were making so much money before Castro..