But something Rush said this week does reflect his leadership in an undeniably real political trend: the return of race-baiting as an acceptable form of discourse. It happened when he was being interviewed by Fox News about Hillary’s suggestion he has a "crush" on her. He quipped:
I understand now why Bill Clinton hit on my date about a year ago at the Kobe Club in New York. I was minding my own business and Clinton came in. And the short version is he used the mayor of Los Angeles to distract me, while hitting on my date. […]
He came over three or four times, had Ron Burkle with him and the mayor of Los Angeles, who I thought was either the shoe shine guy or a Secret Service agent.
That "mayor of Los Angeles" is, of course, Antonio Villaraigosa, a Latino man.
This is in fact classic race-baiting. While the meaning of the term has been confused by years of abuse by folks like Limbaugh (by referring to it whenever a minority politician stands up for their group), its most common form was precisely this kind of talk: raising ugly and demeaning racial stereotypes and associating them with individuals, dangling the stereotype for the audience to swallow the ugly underlying message.
But the response, so far, has been a deafening silence. Indeed, as Think Progress observes, the media (aside from Keith Olbermann) have completely ignored his having said this — though they’re more than happy to comment on his "crush." Because, you know, that’s what’s important.
And that really is the problem, even more than Limbaugh making these kinds of remarks. After all, we’ve gotten accustomed to them — which may be why the media haven’t even batted an eye this time around. But letting this kind of hate-mongering stand should be unacceptable in a society built on equality of opportunity.
When the media turn a blind eye to this kind of stuff, it becomes permission for more. And so the tide of hateful rhetoric has been steadily building over the past decade and longer, led in no small part by Limbaugh himself. But he has never been alone in this.
And in recent years, it’s become common to let race-baiting like this bubble up, especially if the targets are Latino immigrants.
Mario Soliz-Marich has noticed this too:
As a member of the largest minority ethnic group and a member of the media, I am continually puzzled and outraged by the idea that anyone can say anything about Latinos without fearing any consequence. While it would be out outrageous for anybody to have said a similar thing about an elected official of almost any other ethnicity, Rush will certainly not receive any heat at all for supposedly “mistaking” the Latino Mayor of the nation’s second largest city as a shoeshine guy.
There will be no national debate about whether he should step down as there was when Imus referred to a women’s basketball team in a derogatory fashion. There will be no national outrage like there was following the racist vocal vomiting of “comedian” Michael Richards. There will be no slam down and painful lame excuses like those offered by Mel Gibson after his anti-Semitic comments. The rules for Latinos are different.
Rush, Lou Dobbs, and a host of shock jocks are well aware of this different set of rules. Dobbs & Rush inc. can freely accuse Latinos of spreading Leprosy and TB, of raping children, and even planning the violent overthrow of the US, without any proof whatsoever.
However, race-baiting has come slyly back into fashion not just with Latinos, but really with the entire range of minorities. This is why the GOP can indulge dog-whistle speeches and dog-whistle ads attacking Barack Obama, and the media not only ignore the racially incendiary nature of it all, but find ways to repeat them relentlessly.
Because, of course, all race-baiting and dog-whistle tactics have a certain surface deniability that most people can see right through (which is kind of the point of all the winking and nudging). For some reason, the media are refusing to do so. And the longer it goes on, the deeper the shit is going to get.
The Progress Report has more.



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david. do you sleep?
Forgive me if this is offensive, but I think it would be just dandy to watch the country club explode when Obama wins in November.
Obama has to be the Jackie Robinson of national politics to put up with all this extra fearful racism that is going to come. I think he and his family are up to the task. And that is just amazing that he is willing to take it on.
He’s Baaack…. The Iron Man of yesterdays primary’s election on far into the night.
Rush Limbaugh is a case where a cigar is not JUST a cigar.
great post David. I have noticed this myself but I would go back to Reagan. He made it okay to be racist again esp in the political arena (imo) I mean look at where he announced his candidacy.
As KO said, “date? It’s properly called an escort”
Let’s dispense with the euphemisims. He had a hooker.
heh-heh.
It doesn’t matter how odious a sentiment expressed by the likes of Limbaugh, Ingraham, Coulter, Hannity…they never need apologize.
Cheney can go on their shows and no one blinks.
Calls for genocide, homicide, riots are all acceptable discourse among the white chattering classes.
Call America out on its less than glorious aspects of history and there’s hell to pay. Especially when called out by a Black man.
-G
hehe
It’s what their base want from them, and it’s what they deliver.
I imagine we’ll see more of it now.
Well, you know the old saying, you don’t have to be a racist to be a republican…
BTW the Cushing spot price for crude oil is $121.39. We will see if today’s EIA numbers showing a big 5.7 million bbl increase in crude stocks last week will affect this in any way.
And it’s so odd that Rush would be so easily distracted from his date by a “Latino shoe-shine boy”. Maybe he’s spending too much time down in the Dominican Republic?
Under no circumstances should any element of Rush Limbaugh’s sex life, the fact that Rush Limbaugh HAS a sex life, or even the words “Rush” “Limbaugh” and “sex” in proximity, be allowed to appear in any media, anywhere, ever.
I will now go punish myself.
Fasten your seat belts, because we haven’t seen anything yet.
We’re gonna get lots of this filth because it’s all they have.
The economy? Uh, no. Iraq? Please. Housing? I don’t think so.
I think the good news will be that Dems win big anyway, and it will show the country that enough of us have moved on to more substantive issues.
It does appear the GOP is taking the full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes strategy and are heading over the waterfall with Bush and McBush.
President Pissy Pants and the GOP Zombie Caucasian Caucus were shoulder to shoulder today on the Whitehouse steps.
Keep it up.
-G
goddammit. Mrs. Greenspan asking some nobody whether Obama’s reaching a majority of pledged delegates is, maybe, just possibly, a “marker” in this race? Like maybe having that majority might have some tiny bit of meaning?
Pardon me while I go do damage to some inanimate object….
Speaking of racism, a not so glorious anniversary.
http://axisofevelknievel.blogspot.com/
Remember, the GOP is filth and go from there.
I must say I never could understand how anyone, anyone could listen to Rush from when he first burst his big bloated self onto the scene. When i found a cassette of his in the kitchen drawer at my parents’ house, I felt like I had discovered my parents read porn. I nearly fainted.
I grew up that day.
You spelled “threw” with a “g”
I’d like to see what would happen if Villaregosa sued Limbaugh. For the racist comment along with just general principle.
Exactly. That is why they pushed the Rev. Wright story so hard. It’s all they’ve got.
As an aside, does everyone know that Villariagosa’s name combines his and his wife’s? From wiki:
I must say I never could understand how anyone, anyone could listen to Rush
My mother would be happy to tell you that no one pays any attention to Rush, because he is so obviously just an entertainer, and no intelligent person would take anything he says at face value.
My mother lives in a very small world, where all the people are intelligent, the children have good manners, etc.
I also hope Laura will have time to criticize other governments’ response to natural disasters, as soon as her task in Prairie Chapel is completed this weekend.
Seriously — Laura should be in charge of natural-disaster-beratement. Sooner or later, the press corps might stop being tactful and actually ask her “WTF, lady?”
Can she adopt me, please? Now?
My dad has run into rush in Florida (my dad lives there) and says that he is just as bloated and swollen in person as he appears on tv. My dad actually has a few funnny stories regarding Rush. I’ll share them sometime
forgot to add that my mother listens to Rush in the car, and swears up one side and down the other that she pays no attention…
So, having divorced his wife, why doesn’t he go back to his own name?
That press conference was a pure Scoobydoo moment.
I think they make a brain bleach for that.
Yes, I knew that (I live in the LA area)
Not that it matters now. He cheated on his wife with a reporter who was given access that the rest of the media didn’t get. His career is all but over here in LA (the affair, bad policies) so I think he was hoping to ride Hillary’s coattails to the WH
LOL! I retract my application!
omigod, that’s so funny…
Having had three surnames in my life, I’d guess that he’s following the path of least resistence. But your guess is as good as mine. (In retrospect I should have kept my original surname. It would have been less complicated in the end, but it was a complicated Polish name, so changing it seemed like a good idea at the time. My generic solution is that female children should take their mother’s surname & male children their father’s. Were that the case, my surname would have been Lee.)
Why wait?
Rush stories? Now’s good!
I’m assuming this is a double entendre, right?
Hands spacefish a coke
OT, but interesting. Brad Delong is trying to do something about Yoo.
http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/…..e-mem.html
I forgot to include the fact that they’ve got the weakest candidate since, well, George W. Bush.
Yeah, I know how that turned out, but McSame is following Bush and that’s some kind of albatross to have around your neck, particularly when you’re no great shakes yourself.
Little rushie has a security detail of astounding proportions. As peaceful as the other side of the spectrum from rushie’s people are, he is still in deep fear that someone will do him in. He probably realizes he has said things to and about people that can influence his last steps. Paranoia has a way of dealing with itself. He finally assumes that it is out to get him, and it will.
The House Republiclowns are acting their ages today, they have just made their fourth Motion to Adjourn of the Day! They have accomplished wasting an hour, they have also squandered a lot of time with Parliamentary inquiries, putting approval of the Journal to a recorded vote, etc. What pisses me off is that they will blame the Democrats for failing to accomplish anything.
Bush is up now saying he will veto the Housing bail out and that Congress needs to pass the responsible Republican alternative. Sounds fair, $30 Billion for Bear Stearns, people losing their homes and out on the street? Screw ‘em! The compassion!
Can she adopt me, please? Now?
Oh lord, I wouldn’t wish that on ya. Good, good person, very bright, and ridiculously naive. It just gets so old trying to convince the lady that this shit is real, that people really *do* pay attention to Rush, Hagee et al. And she screws up her vote every single goddamned cycle.
In 2004, after the fact, she told me that she’d voted for GWB as a one-issue voter (partial-birth abortion). I nearly screamed, and immediately pulled up, printed out, and highlited, in various colors, the law which was already in place.
I have no idea who convinced her that that was an election issue. It’s maddening.
I worry (assuming that he is the nominee) that Obama is not up to the task of getting into the gutter to slug it out with the likes of Rush, O’Reilly, Hannity, Coulter, Savage and the rest of them.
One thing I’ve come to grudgingly respect about Clinton, though, is that she has no qualms about fighting those people on their turf. If she’s Obama’s Cheney, the wingnuts won’t be able to touch Obama. A Dem “unity ticket” is the Thug’s worst nightmare.
WooHoo!
Unfortunately, I think we’ve just had a small taste of what the racebaiting will be like once Obama’s the candidate. I have no idea how it will turn out in the end. Some days I am optimistic that it will advance race relations when all is said & done, and other days I dispair.
not intentionally *g*
In terms of who gets whose surname – that is sort of the way it happens in Iceland, with the daughters getting their mothers’ first name with ‘dottir’ afterwards.
Of course, she also has no problem sucking up to them and going on their shows.
better to wait till lln.
Thanks for that. Even though I made up the rule, I’m not surprised that some sensible society didn’t think of it before.
Well, it seems that the tried and true tactics of yesteryear have fallen out of favor.
The terrorist fear mongering didn’t work in 2006.
The race baiting seems to be a big hit among the media and the 27%-ers…..
-G
This is of topic but I thought ya all would like to see Shirley Golub’s ad as she tries to unseat Nancy Pelosi in the primary here in California http://www.shirley08.com/rubber_chicken.php
That’s the optimistic side. But remember that you ain’t seen nothing yet. They’re keeping amunition dry for the general, when they’ll bring out the big guns. (There: I didn’t even mix metaphors.)
And Eric Johnson’s son becomes John Ericson whose son becomes Eric Johnson..and on and on…something like that…
I don’t want to think it was intentional but If I heard correctly, Obama “congratulated” Clinton on her apparent Indiana win. Clinton “commended” Obama on his win.
I prefer to think that condescension comes from living on top for a long time. But, well, I dunno….
My mother lives in a very small world, where all the people are intelligent, the children have good manners, etc.
Firedoglake Wobegon?
From the Arizona Republic
good times, noodle salad!
I’m glad you made this comment, because I think it gets to the root of how his ’shtick’ works.
First off, say something outrageous. If the response from civilized people gets too hot, then you’re joking. In the meantime, the racists out there accept it as confirmation of their views and appoint you their messiah, which as we know comes with certain economic benefits.
You know, like $20,000,000 per year.
David -
not in any way to discount, dismiss, or certainly, deny what you have been telling us about this anti american sh*t – I feel lucky to have ever encountered any of your work on race -
but it aint gonna work this time – it will bring out the mouthbreathers, steadfastly racist and some fence sitters – but that dog wont hunt – look what happened yesterday in NC – the two Dems their Obama ad was supposed to hurt ran away with it
now I accept there are smart folks here who can explain away it as ‘isolated blah, blah, blah’ but it hasn’t worked anywhere else either – asking everyone to recall just how anxious we all were after Rev Wright’s NPC speech –
frankly I’m counting on them using it and expect it to go from 0 to straight up klavern city in about a minute they’re so damn desperate – it will further expose them for the toxic beasts they are and lotsa folks will think twice about joining up with them
yeah I know, I’m letting my inner-pollyanna run amok – but I keep thinking of those older white Iowa farm women, or the 73 year old Kansan with a walker waiting 2 hours in the cold night to vote for “that young man” – there’s a significant segment of folks who are proud to vote for an African American nominee – a segment that sees it as a validation of what we could be – and they aren’t gonna take kindly to the Limpballs of this world raining on their parade
That’s what worries me….we don’t know if they’ve got something big…
The difference between shaking your hand and patting you on the head. Not cool.
heh. Yep.
Even if they don’t have something big, they’ll make it up.
Well, they have this limited catalog of stuff they can choose from – so they just keep recycling stuff from…in this case..1954.
Be the media.
http://freewayblogger.blogspot…..ornia.html
Matt -
saw that earlier -
the media matters guys book points out the AZ Media do not consider themselves his base – validation in spades – heh
Omigod!
(shrieking in background)
you are
my
son!
(((jayt)))
come home.
Yup…I expect to see some woman claiming to have had a lengthy affair and a bunch of kids she’ll claim are his…or some hooker will claim he was a client…that is most likely the type of attack they’ll go after him with. JMHO
Now Rush PillJunky is saying that he supports Obama because he’s the weaker candidate.
Talk about a weak mind.
-G
And he loves him some Judge Bork. egads.
Drug-addled Rushbo is usually not worth the toobz it takes to get his fat butt through.
He constantly complains about the “democrat rules”, they are terrible. But the Democratic Party is one of the few institutions not totally corrupted, by neo-cons. Yes, Democrats have rules and try to follow them. The only thing the Neo-cons can do, is dirty tricks against leftists.
Our Yoonitary Torture Guy has no rules. The Government can do anything. Citizens Rights are just a GOODAMN PIECE OF PAPER. Fake Coporate Journalists continue to promote a Military Occupation that is a fraud. But remember, Limbo is controlled by KKKarl Rove.
Yep, a “love-child” scandal, or some variation thereof.
LS, I understand the Freepers (no I do NOT go there, I heard this in the Crack Van at First Draft Last night) have some story about Obama and a gay hooker in the back of a limo they are trying to hawk.
This stuff is coming. He better be prepared for it.
Nope; I’m thinking they are going to combine Spitzer and Obama for a home run and find some woman who will claim she did threesomes with them in the Mayflower Hotel.
So you all think he doesn’t know what’s coming huh. Damn.
I’ve heard it’s just ##### that’s so objectionable…
Yeah, that’s how I wanna live. Gated community, security people all over the place. Sounds like great fun. Not.
its not hard to argue anything Dave. It is in this case, hard to have that argument make sense.
GOP voters constituted 10% of the electorate in IN. They split 54-46 for clinton… in other words, a difference of eigth tenths of one percent of the total electorate.
As of this moment, CNN has 1,265,035 votes counted. eight tenths of 1% of that is 10,120. Clinton is ahead by 18,439, which is more than 10,120 the last time I checked.
This is why the GOP can indulge dog-whistle speeches and dog-whistle ads attacking Barack Obama, and the media not only ignore the racially incendiary nature of it all, but find ways to repeat them relentlessly.
the problem, of course, is that Obama’s race-baiting campaign against Clinton means that were likely to see more of this kind of dog-whistle stuff aimed at Obama — because the GOP can now point to the false accusations made against the Clintons, and claim that its just more smear tactics from the Obama campaign designed to increase turnout and margins about African Americans at the cost of race relations in the country.
I just got hell from people because I said that I was sitting out in November, because I won’t tolerate the same tactics from a democrat that I find so loathesome when the GOP does it. But it isn’t just a question of principle — there is a practical problem as well, False accusations of racism make it that much harder to convince people that real dog-whistling is happening.
The best thing Obama and Michelle can do is laugh and say “don’t be silly” and keep going.
Well, that “illegitimate black child” worked well for them in 2000, doncha know…
Yeah, it is some really sad and pathetic guy with AIDS who sold his story to a tabloid and then took a lie detector test for cash…..
You know, a credible GOP source.
-G
Assuming that Obama is lily-white (phrase used ironically) wrt love affairs, I think they won’t try that tactic. Too risky in the sense of being disproved. Instead, I think they’ll tie into all kinds of racism with dog whistles, one right after another every day until the election. A bombardment, to keep with my earlier metaphor.
However, if Obama’s had dalliances, you can expect that to be prominent.
am wit ya Raven -
folks forget his background as a community organizer in the projects for god’s sake – and I almost never see mention of Mr Axelrod in these threads – streetfighter for the Daly machine – bring it
I would add Texas to that point, David.. Imagine the financial costs Dems incurred fighting two-timing Rush and those who utilized him on public airways! I know primaries are open in many places, but the dishonesty along with the racist slurry sure gets expensive.
see me at #2
That is why they are setting it up with “weak”…
I’m with you. He is not wet behind the ears.
Don’t dispair (or despair, either.)
I find it remarkable that we’ve even gotten to this point with either candidate.
Yep, and I’d be careful messin’ around with a brotha’ if I were the GOP machine. You just never know what can happen.
I stand corrected!
The attack(s) will play on the fears/prejudices of White America regarding Black men (in other words, Willie Horton x 100). If sex can be thrown in, all the better.
And I agree with you, it will be a bombardment.
well they’re not illegitimate but Barack got two of them black children
(and they are the cutest lil girls)
Knowing that McCain’s key constituency is the MSM and after analyzing the electoral map, I doubt the GOP or their allies engage in much race-baiting this coming fall. Their attack will be from a different angle.
They cannot afford to alienate the MSM. Race-baiting could do that. They are looking strong in Dixie and the Border States. They need to win OH or PA or MI. Race-baiting wouldn’t be necessary or particularly wise for doing that.
meaning what? he is going to go after all the white women? He came out of one so maybe that is all the outrage that is needed.
really.silly.discourse.
I’m inclined to agree with you. Surely at least parts of the nation people are progressing to the level that they no longer see this stuff as acceptable? That they recognize race baiting is a transparent and shameful ploy? Please??? Republicans will use racial tactics because that is pretty much all they have – but surely that should begin to backfire on them.
Glenn Greenwald at Salon on May 4 talked how the Republicans will do whatever they have to do to distract voters in the fall from the issues. Like 1988, the Republicans can’t win on the issues so they’ll appeal to our baser instincts, e.g. Willie Horton. Except Latino-baiting big time.
I have found many Democrats to be openly hostile to Latino’s. They easily marginalize them by categorizing them as “illegals” which, of course, all law abiding persons are against.
The GOP and…wise?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
wise and GOP don’t go together. It’s like Rush and Slim fast
Wingnut Email spam is currently pushing a Marxism and Obama angle. Didn’t read it. Deleted it.
I agree 1000%.
We should all encourage our kids who are old enough to appreciate the content to read James Baldwin’s essays. Everything Obama and Wright have said recently is in there….the aching for America to finally wake the fuck up and see where racism has brought us as a people and a nation.
How refreshing it would be to have Obama as president interacting with Russia’a new president Dmitri Medvedev instead of two old white people confronting Russia as a threat and trying to reignite the cold war.
.
Oops, that should be “Expect”. Got a bad bug and my brain isn’t working.
’m with you. He is not wet behind the ears.
I disagree, and think that he is most certainly “wet behind the ears”.
I should distinguish that. He’s campaigning like a veteran, maybe even better than a veteran, and I think he’ll handle what gets slung at him in the General election.
But his first year in the WH is gonna be ugly. He wants to “reach across the aisle”. I was tryin’ to tell the Obama lawyer-kids last night that he’s gonna end up trying that for about a year, and get punched right square in the mouth every single time.
They weren’t buying – but I stand by it. He is most certainly, however, an intelligent man, and I figure that he’ll catch on pretty quick. His presidency, should it happen, should be judged on his last three years in office, ’cause he’s gonna get the shit kicked outta him the first year.
we have also seen dems being hostile to women and blacks. We are a big tent party but we are also a micrcosm of the society we represent. stereotyping knows no particular race, income/education level, political party affiliation, etc. It is an equal opportunity agent.
I have a personal confession. It came to my conscious brain that I felt uncomfortable around large teen-age black guys. (Walking past them on the sidewalk at night, for example, especially if there were a group.) Once I became conscious of it, I asked myself why. The answer was that there was no reason. I’d never been slightly threatened except in my lizard brain. So I started making eye contact with them, with a pleasant expression on my face. They responded in kind and my visceral discomfort disappeared.
My point is that if even I was subconsciously subject to such feelings, others will be much more and won’t make the effort to confront their feeling and become rational.
So you’re right. The assault is likely to be quite effective.
funny you should mention Marxism . . . just this morning
this is it, this is all they have
and go ahead on your oh so predictable latino smears – yeah, that oughta help your downticket races immensely /s
…old white people confronting Russia as a threat and trying to reignite the cold war.
This re-ignition of which you speak is good for breaking the bank with more no-bid contracts, weapons in space, etc. The Military Industrial Complex loves sabre rattling.
Sitting out the vote in November is simply not a viable option, and people should catch hell for even suggesting it.
I’m basing my assumptions on what he had to do running for state office in Chicago. Also, he is a black man. He knows damn well what he is up against. He is not ignorant to this country’s history and only needs to scan the country to see what is at play for black men.
I think you underestimate.
OT-Another Republican Vote to Adjourn! We’ve also had four motions to reconsider the votes to adjourn and anything else they can think up. They’re just so adorable, that is if you like children, of big spoiled brat variety!
I think many are speaking out of emotion and come November will vote D. If not, they need to keep their piehole shut for 4 years
awww must have missed their nap after lunch
salon.com
Meaning a lot of people will have his back! Where does going after white women come in. That wasn’t even implied!
So you think that Obama is talking the bipartisan, aisle reaching jargon solely in order to attract swing voters?
i didn’t say you said it! keeping in line with the goober outrage.
Obama ‘reached across the aisle’ a few times in the Senate.
In particular, I remember McCain getting rather testy about his style of cooperation.
(Cannot remember or find the details)
Take-away from that: BHO is nobody’s catspaw.
It doesn’t take a minimum of a half century to gain wisdom (I can personally attest to being just as stupid at 50 as I was at 30 – 20 , now that’s a different kind of stupid)
the Mighty Oxy has spoken !
- 4 more superdels to publicly declare for Obama this afternoon per Great Orange Satan
link
Being a New Yorker, maybe you remember the “wilding” incident in Central Park years ago when that woman was horribly attacked…maybe that discomfort was sort of an underlying fear from something like that.
Looks like The Dems are giving in to Bushco and giving him the FISA bill he wants including retroactive immunity for the telcos. Credo has a toll to send Nancy an email telling her to not give in and that we the people are against such a deal!!
here you go:
where the white women at?
No, I didn’t say that at all. I was addressing Jayt’s poinion that he won’t be ready for the onslaught that is about to hit him.
Obama’s history speaks to his reaching across the aisle though given his background in community outreach and such, that he is more a populist than he had led on.
Laugh at me as you will, and I agree that the GOP does not govern wisely, but they understand the math of the Electoral College very well.
I prefer to phrase it as, “I still don’t know what I’m doing, but at a much higher level.”
aisle be reaching back later.
Undoubtedly those incidents played into my feelings. But I never personally exposed myself to the kind of risks she took, and (like terrorism) those incidents are rare and I’m pretty good about not getting warped by rare events. So I was surprised to discover that I wasn’t emotionally immune.
BTW, I’ve listened to her book on tape, which she reads herself. She’s truly an extraordinary woman. As a friend says, if she didn’t start out with an IQ of 180, she wouldn’t have ended up with an IQ of 120.
great. well that allows us to vote their asses out and real dems in (those with a backbone)
Whew! Now the democratic superdelegates know what to do. They were just waiting for word from Rush.
I agree…on some level no one is really immune, because everyone just processes information that comes and goes throughout our whole lives…no matter what race or nationality.
PS. I didn’t know that she wrote a book.
Paul –
I saw someone else mention that Republicans were only 10% of the total Indiana electorate. I’m having a hard time buying that (particularly given the dominance of Republican politics in the state). If you have a source for that, I’d like to see it.
What I saw was that 11% of the voters of in the Democratic primary identified themselves as Republicans. That’s a fairly high number.
I was addressing Jayt’s poinion that he won’t be ready for the onslaught that is about to hit him.
Maybe you missed my point. What I was trying to say is that I’m not worried about Obama’s ability to campaign. What I was expressing doubt about is the ability to “reach across the (wide, wide) aisle” if he is in fact elected.
*That* is when I think he gets a rude awakening.
Reaching across the aisle just means that you’ve dropped your left (if you’re a boxing fan) and are immensely vulnerable to a straight right hand. Reach across the aisle – get punched in the mouth – repeat until such point as it takes for the reality of governing to set in…
I Am the Central Park Jogger by Trisha Meili
Paul, if you’re still around, left you a response in that really, really old thread.
I wish Obama would neither aisle-reach nor talk about aisle-reaching. I read that to indicate that he is willing to let bygones be bygones and that he is amicable to letting the crooks get away. I wish Obama never said that Lieberman is is mentor. These things concern me.
I hope that Obama is talking about bipartisanship only as a way to gain swing votes. I fear that he really means it.
You catch more flies with honey….
I heard on progressive radio station that some R voters in Indiana were asking for D ballots, presumably not because Rush sent them, but because they said they were so disgusted with their party that they wanted to vote for a dem. It sounded like a case of not knowing how primaries work and that they really did want to participate in voting for a dem…just anecdotally speaking. It was reported that about ten voters in one precinct….
hmm that i did but given his record and his demeanor, he’ll do better than the current ass-in-charge
Hackworth, he has to really mean it, to an extent, unless he gets massive majorities in the Congress, cuz without those majorities, ain’t nothing happening without bipartisanship.
That having been said, it is going to be up to us to press him and make sure it isn’t all swept under the rug. Cuz the unitary executive and the rest of this stuff needs to be staked and then buried.
I wasn’t laughing at you. The GOP’s tactics this election season have not been particularly wise or effective-starting with nominating a 71 year old Bush clone as their standard-bearer in the general election.
Their lone “wise” man, Newt Gingrich, crying wolf from the sidelines has been marginalized. “Wise” GOP Senators and Congressmembers are retiring in droves rather than face the electorate. The only GOP “wise” men left think they know the math.
No I’m not laughing at you, oldgold, I’m laughing at the folly of the Republican party’s inability to realize what’s happened to it under the so-called leadership of the Bush/Cheney/Rove regime.
Wisdom comes from learning and humility-two qualities sorely lacking in today’s Republican party.
i don’t have an issue with bi-partisanship. if it is good for the country who gives a fuck who came up with it or whose working together to get it accomplished. dems are not the sole source of good ideas.
the only mavericky thing about McCain is that he is cranky enough to call someone in his own party an a$$hole. I’m quite surprised to see the myth debunked by his own votes in the Senate.
as far as the crooks, he has said he will investigate if there is indication of wrong doing. we will see if he will hold true to that
Even if Limbaugh influences the 28%rs to vote in the primaries…it doesn’t really matter in the end, because McCain will not get huge numbers in the GE. I believe that the Dems and crossover Republicans will put the third Bush term away. The Republicans like to sound all big as if they are actually competitive in numbers…but they aren’t anymore. The thing that they do have is the media. Wizard of Oz. This is not 2000 or 2004 or even 2006.
Well, if the Republicans who don’t support McSame want to sit out, I don’t plan on discouraging them…
The AG choice will be telling.
I’m kinda rooting for Fitz
Right. There’s that too. The 28%rs don’t like McCain at all.
You’re right. Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat and he has good ideas. If you can think of a sincere, single good idea that a Republican has come up with, I’d like to know about it.
Hell, I’ll buy ‘em a drink
I think it was over at C&L that I read a comment from someone who attended the “McCain” event when he made his remarks about the Supreme Court and activist judges. She was a last minute seat filler. She said hardly anyone was there and everyone left shaking their head about what he had said and how it was that they were the only ones in the room.
Lugar bill that Obama co-sponsored wasn’t a bad idea
the Environmental Protection Act was co authored by a Republic -
Pete McCloskey
mack -
in reading the RS article about their campaign – he has a couple former DOJ USAA within the inner circle – expecting it to be one of them
“I Am the Central Park Jogger” iirc.
On tape, recorded by the author? Sounds really great.
FunnyD
Dave…
The original exit polls had it at 11%, with a 53-47 split.
The exit polls were subsequently adjusted to reflect reality (changes everywhere on the demographics, gender, race, party, etc) and now its 10% of the electorate and a 54-46 split. (note that you’ll have to go to the bottom of page of the poll for breakdown by party.)
even it it was 11%, it wouldn’t matter in terms of the math, because you only add 8 one hundreds of a percent to the “margin” number (i.e. at 11% 54-46% split, its 11132 instead of 10120.
OT, but most people are upstairs by now anyway.
Yet more proof that oil prices are being manipulated upward.
Why are we hitting more ‘all time highs’ when inventory is higher?
Because of the hedge funds buying crazy amounts of oil futures contracts.
With highly leveraged money. You know, the kind of thing that ruined Bear Stears and caused a Sunday night meeting by the Federal Reserve to head off a financial market meltdown.
Business as usual.
When whites say we are color blind we are being dishonest. It is important to be conscious of these things as a first step toward dialogue and reconciliation.
why do you assume that without the limbaugh affect (if there was one), the Rs who voted in the D primary would have split 50-50 between obama and clinton?
I’m pretty sure that if we were to look at party identification numbers for Indiana (can’t find them, but here are numbers for some typical swing states) we’d find that they range between the usual 25 to 35 percent range. So I just don’t buy that they’re only 10 percent of the electorate.
If you’re saying that only 10 percent of the people who voted Tuesday voted Republican, that wouldn’t surprise me (their race is decided, and their numbers are down anyway). But we’re talking about the people who voted Democratic and identified themselves to exit pollsters as Republicans. Now, as someone else pointed out, that probably indicates a certain level of defections, among other things. But it also likely includes people seeking to skew the results in Hillary’s favor for malicious reasons.
What that number would be is of course impossible to say, but her margin of victory was slender enough that it could come in to play.
Mind you, I tend to think it probably was a small enough percentage not to matter, like you. But I can’t dismiss the possibility altogether, and I do think a coherent argument remains.
The larger point remains: Limbaugh may or may not be affecting the primary, though if we look to NC he clearly did not, and the slenderness of Hillary’s IN win hurt her. So if this was his big plan, it failed miserably. Mostly, he’s a big blowhard.
What we do know is that he’s playing a big role in the racism factor we’ve also identified as being in play here.
that’s exactly what paul’s link says.
but the analysis all depends on how the Rs would have voted without the Limbaugh affect (if there was one) – see my comment above. paul’s analysis assumes that they would have split 50-50. is there any reason to be confident of this assumption?
taking this analysis a bit further….
if the limbaugh affect caused 20,000 Rs to vote in the D primary for senator clinton (more than enough to have thrown the race)….
without those 20,000 voters we get, if my quick and dirty math is correct, the following:
then, instead of clinton getting 54% of the R vote, she would have had approximately 45%
and instead of obama getting 46% of the R vote, he would have had approximately 55%
so, for all you poll watchers out there… is this even possible – that without the limbaugh crossovers the R votes could have split 45% (clinton) to 55% (obama)?
David Neiwert:
I don’t know if this Paul Begala comment qualifies as “race baiting”, though its certainly deprecatory in its pairing with the college graduate baiting “egghead” (snark):
Which means the opposite. I think the whole way to look at these folks is to contrast their “words” with their actual actions. There were many Republican “advisors” speaking out the last few weeks about how Obama would be the “weaker candidate”…but they were expending tremendous energy in torpedoing his campaign.
One can only assume that actions speak louder than words and that the very fact that they are enunciating what they “want” yet do the opposite is telling. And rush knows very well that his “recommendation” has the EFFECT of discouraging the Superdelegates from supporting Obama.
Of course, the Republicans know that they have a formidable opponent in Obama…one that can easily contrast his anti-war position with McCain’s, is far more supportive of working people than the rich, and who knows a heck of a lot more about economic issues…vs. no-nothing “I’ll talk to my economics experts” (except, that is, when it com,es to pandering about eliminating the gas tax). Mr. Keating 5, who claims he’s for campaign finance reform…until he’s the one that has to follow those rules?
I’d say that there are some pretty clear contrasts!
they aren’t. the 25-35% percent numbers you are looking at is the overall electorate. The Democratic primary electorate is a subset of that.
sure. As long as you adjust the percentage of GOP among the primary electorate to 10%.
and without the “Dems for a Day’ who the Obama folks have been encouraging that voted for Obama because they hate everything Clinton, you could lose 20K more votes, and change the margins back to what they were originally — after adjusting GOP participation downward again.
When the vote is this close, literally anything can be said to have “determined the margin of victory”
Republican words and tactics aren’t contradictory. They’re going to try to torpedo the campagaign of whoever is the frontrunner, regardless of anything else; they see an advantage, rightly or not, in a continuing campaign. At the same time, they understand Obama is the nominee and have started characterizing Obama in the usual maliciou way.
1) so, where did the 50-50 assumption come from? is it more realistic than the 55-45?
2) re: “sure” – am i correct in interpreting this to mean that you now agree that david’s hypothetical argument could make sense if we don’t assume a 50-50 split absent the possible Limbaugh affect?
3) re: adjust to 10% – i don’t understand this, would you please explain? thanks.
Dave, just because there is an open primary doesn’t mean that everyone votes in it. And try to keep in mind that there was also a GOP primary going on. 11% of the 1,265K voters approx 139K. There were 410K+ voters in the GOP primary. Add the Republicans who voted in the Dem primary to the people who voted in the GOP primary, and you get almost 40% of the total democratic primary electorate (or 32.9% of the overall primary electorate). Because no exit polling is available for the GOP primary, we can’t know for absolutely certain how many of the people who voted in the GOP primary were Republicans.
But there were other contests on the Indiana Republican primary ballot — including 6 of 9 US house districts that were contested.
All politics is local… and the percentage of republicans who are gonna vote Dem just to screw things up (either as part of Project Chaos, or Obama’s Dems for a Day) is probably pretty damn small.
yes selise. And I also accept anyone else’s hypothetical situation — such as cat owners gave Clinton her margin of victory, or that vegans played a key role in Obama closing the gap.
So if Dave wants to assume that the overwhelming majority of sincere republicans voted for Obama, fine. We can play “what if” all day. But the reason you start with an assumption of 50-50 is because of “all things being equal” and absent ANY evidence that they aren’t equal, that is the assumption that you should use.
maybe it should be 9% — it depends on where the rounding occured in the exit polls. But if you reduce the number of Republicans overall by 20,000, you’ve reduced the number of republicans relative to the whole electorate. In this case, with 12,625 = 1% of total voters, reducing the number of GOP voters by 20K means that you have to reduce the percentage of the electorate represented by GOP in the party breakdown demographics.
Regarding Limbaugh, here’s an example of how the lack of being challenged directly has made him weak.
http://undercoverblackman.vox……d0003.html