mornin’!

But Jeremiah Wright is the one that gets obsessed about?

the rev. wright says somethings i disagree with (and i don’t subscribe to any religious dogma), but he is morally grounded in a way lieberman, mccain and hagee can not, i think, even imagine.

This thread popped up while I was furthering Raven’s note in the last thread, carrying it here instead. Just saw Matt Taibbi on the Imus Show [likely they’ll replay that in their 9 am hour-streamed on WABC. Then if they’re on their toes they’ll post the interview on their website].

In the meantime, watch the Taibbi Youtube here.

Screamingly funny, a great book, says Imus.

From Taibbi’s description of the retreat he went on, we have a lot of work to do de-programming the brainwashed.

Morning Attaturk and Prairie Sunshine. Its a beautiful day in NE Iowa.

“Give em a light and they’ll follow it anywhere”

Firesign Theater

Used to fish across the river from Keokuk.

Carl Hiaason’s column this week adds some good thoughts to this discussion:

If he were white, Rev. Wright could stand up before the cameras and make his nuttiest statements — that the U.S. government deliberately spread AIDS in the inner cities, for example — and most white Americans wouldn’t be so shocked.

That’s because white folks have a long history of gasbags in the pulpit. We fully expect some of them to be outrageous and narrow-minded and even a little paranoid.

/snip/

Still, McCain’s bonding with Rev. Falwell remains harder to comprehend than Obama’s relationship with Rev. Wright, which began before Obama’s political career. Rev. Wright was Obama’s hometown pastor in Chicago; not a national TV personality whose endorsement might help get him elected someday.

When the Rapture comes I don’t want any of Hagee’s stuff.

blast me if you like - but i don’t think wright is nutty for thinking that there may have been people in gov. who deliberately spread aids in the inner cities or when he says that the gov. created hiv.

about the latter, i think he is just misinformed (about the former i have no info).

When the Rapture comes, Hagee’s still going to need his stuff.

Peterr, who wrote Revelations?

Good, he can have it. Smeared with cow shit, just for good measure, though.

Attaturk, you’re on quite the roll here, with a pair of well-crafted takedowns of extremists in religion and the media who coddle them.

Nicely done.

IIRC, The Revelation of St John the Divine was a late addition to what would become the New Testament. I don’t know if we know the author.

There are only a few of us who have managed to get past his histrionics and listened to what the good Rev Dr Wright has to say about the government.

Attaturk, those who support Hagee and his beliefs are the insane ones of our nation. It’s not surprising Joe Lieberman would throw out his beliefs to join hands with this Satan.

Anyways, Howie Carr of right wing jackboot licking radio read a piece from one of Rev. Wright’s speeches yesterday (or it could have been a church pamphlet…not sure) where Wright was pointing out that bombs are being made to kill only the blacks, Arabs, and Muslims on the planet. Howie went on and on and on by asking how the hell could that be, meaning, how the hell could a bomb know only to kill the blacks, Arabs, and Muslims.

Neocons can’t think outside the box, so I screamed at my radio, HE’S TALKING ABOUT THE COUNTRIES THAT HAVE BLACKS, ARABS, & MUSLIMS, HOWIE!!! NAME ONE WHITE COUNTRY THAT AMERICA IS CREATING BOMBS TO DROP BOMBS ON, YA DUMBASS!!!!

Neocons are stupid. Hagee & Lieberman included. The End.

Okay, going to work. Have a great day everyone. ;-)

I’d certainly agree that there was a hefty dose of intentional indifference which could be interpreted as contributing to the spread accelerating at a critical time early in the HIV epidemic. Hiaason goes farther than I would in characterizing Wright as nutty, but his thesis that this is allowed, and even expected, for white preachers is what I wanted to point out.

Hagee is too fat to be raptured. He doesn’t know this yet. Poor thing. He’ll be left on earth with us heathens! Good. I look forward to it. LOL

The author of Revelation — no “s” on the end — is named John (see Rev. 1:1), but he is not generally believed to be the same “John” who was a disciple of Jesus.

I think if Rev Wright had stated that the government had done little to stop the spread of HIV and little more to treat the disease he wouldn’t be in so much hot water. It’s one of the areas where I think his histrionics did not serve him well. I remember giving a verbal grunt and grimace when I heard those comments in his sermon. But I couldn’t allow that to invalidate all else of which he spoke.

but how many have tried?

tw3k - who found it pretty inaccessible - made the effort and, i think, could “get it”. so i don’t think it’s just an issue of style. i think wright challenges our world view and more importantly our deepest myths about who we are and our place in the world. that is what makes it so difficult (at least that is my opinion at the moment).

Back in January, author Sarah Posner came to the FDL Book Salon to talk about her book “God’s Profits.” Hagee figures prominently in the book, and this little snip (pp. 110-111) gives you a taste of the way in which the GOP lines up to bow down at Hagee’s feet:

[In 2007] Republican officials and candidates are seeking Hagee’s ear. John McCain met Hagee for a private têtê-à-têtê in San Antonio, emerging with a virtual endorsement of his presidential candidacy and a $1000 contribution to his campaign. . . . Presidential hopefulls Sam Brownback and Duncan Hunter spoke at Nights to Honor Israel [a series of Hagee sponsored events] in South Carolina and Virginia. When Hagee was in Washington to deliver a well-received speech at the American Israel Public Affairs Committee conference in March 2007, he met with House Republican Whip Roy Blunt and other members of the House Republican leadership. Gingrich also collaborated with Hagee, delivering the keynote address at CUFI’s 2007 Washington summit.

A very good book for trying to follow the “prosperity preachers” of the TheoCon world.

My 20 was supposed to my reply to your 9. Duh. Have to blame it on OJ instead of coffee.

On Moyers he talked a bit about examining ourselves and I think that’s what people are not willing to do.

yeah. i just picked on your quote because it was handy.

and i guess i’d go even further - just because i think someone is massively wrong about something, imo that is no reason to call them nutty.

i’d first want to sit down with him (or have someone better qualified than i am do it) and go through the hiv sequence evolution as it is currently understood. i’ll call someone nutty based on how they take in and process new information not on what information he is already aware of.

… and to go a step further. how many people who are claiming wright is nutty for thinking that the gov. created aids have actually taken a look at the data for themselves? how is it more nutty to disbelieve the gov. without evidence than to believe the gov. without evidence?

does what i’m trying to say here make any sense?

But it has been a good opening to teach or remind the rest of US about the grotesque Tuskagee Syphilis Experiment done here not so very long ago.

In 1932 the American Government promised 400 men - all residents of Macon County, Alabama, all poor, all African American - free treatment for Bad Blood, a euphemism for syphilis which was epidemic in the county. Treatment for syphilis was never given to the men and was in fact withheld. The men became unwitting subjects for a government sanctioned medical investigation, The Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male. The Tuskegee Study, which lasted for 4 decades, until 1972, had nothing to do with treatment. No new drugs were tested; neither was any effort made to establish the efficacy of old forms of treatment. It was a non therapeutic experiment, aimed at compiling data on the effects of the spontaneous evolution of syphilis on black males. What has become clear since the story was broken by Jean Heller in 1972 was that the Public Health Service (PHS) was interested in using Macon County and its black inhabitants as a laboratory for studying the long term effects of untreated syphilis, not in treating this deadly disease.

my bold

see my 25.

and not just tuskegee. from publisher’s weekly (via amazon) on Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present by Harriet A. Washington

This groundbreaking study documents that the infamous Tuskegee experiments, in which black syphilitic men were studied but not treated, was simply the most publicized in a long, and continuing, history of the American medical establishment using African-Americans as unwitting or unwilling human guinea pigs. Washington, a journalist and bioethicist who has worked at Harvard Medical School and Tuskegee University, has accumulated a wealth of documentation, beginning with Thomas Jefferson exposing hundreds of slaves to an untried smallpox vaccine before using it on whites, to the 1990s, when the New York State Psychiatric Institute and Columbia University ran drug experiments on African-American and black Dominican boys to determine a genetic predisposition for “disruptive behavior.” Washington is a great storyteller, and in addition to giving us an abundance of information on “scientific racism,” the book, even at its most distressing, is compulsively readable. It covers a wide range of topics—the history of hospitals not charging black patients so that, after death, their bodies could be used for anatomy classes; the exhaustive research done on black prisoners throughout the 20th century—and paints a powerful and disturbing portrait of medicine, race, sex and the abuse of power.

Good Morning Attaturk and Firedogs,

Selise -

in the guerilla days of public health/Act Up campaigns was always taken aback by afro american skepticism - until an epidemiologist friend gave me the 411 on
the Tuskegee Experiments - willing to bet most white americans are still in the dark about this shameful chapter

Shorter part two from selise: The BushCo govt has done a lot in the last 7 years to ruin its own reputation for trustworthiness over what should be non-partisan issues. See Katrina, global warming science, US Attorney firings, Iraq, etc.

how is it more nutty to disbelieve the gov. without evidence than to believe the gov. without evidence?

Given the behavior of the current federal government and its deciderer in chief, my starting point is to disbelieve the government. However, that is based on analysis of its track record. Your point is a very good one that should be asked of the talking heads who continue to natter about the “Wright” factor and very important in looking at things like Michael Gordon’s article on Sunday.

that’s almost it! needs one change:

Shorter part two from selise: The BushCo govt USA govt has done a lot in the last 7 years 200 years to ruin its own reputation for trustworthiness over what should be non-partisan issues. See Katrina, global warming science, US Attorney firings, Iraq, etc.

excellent point!

gordon gets published on the front page of the nyt - for believing a gov that has consistently given him false information.

wright suspects the govt wrt to hiv based on the lived experience of blacks in america.

…. and who are we calling nutty?

willing to bet most white americans are still in the dark about this shameful chapter

yes. me too. i’m going to put washington’s book (linked above) on my reading list.

On Aids and the US Govt - this book was recommended by a friend as the “unified field theory” of conspiracy theory.
http://www.themonkeyvirus.com/

funny thing though, I heard lieberman is now trying to go along with gore on global warming

I hope gore gives lieberman a smack down, I don’t think he will, global warming is too important to play politics, when you get an advocate you have to accept the endorsement I think

RIP Mildred Loving.

If the name doesn’t ring a bell, she’s half of the “Loving” in Loving v. Virginia — the 1967 case that struck down the ban on interracial marriage.

There is a whole secret bio warfare world. These weapons have been tested irresponsibly, on American citizens many times. Have these experiments turned into secret bio war attacks against enemies of neo-cons? Probably. The Anthrax attacks in 2001 were directed against “liberals”. This anthrax was extremely deadly, having been “weaponized” and could have only been created in a bio war lab.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/pro.....701196.stm

But America’s Institute of Medicine is conducting a study of more than 6,000 veterans who say their health has been compromised by secret tests in the Cold War years.

Some of these were veteran sailors who were involved in tests known as SHAD - Shipborne Hazard and Defense - which involved spraying lethal chemicals such as sarin and nerve gases in the open sea.

But it wasn’t just the white coat volunteers and sailors who were subject to experiments. Scientists used what they thought was a harmless simulant in major bio-weapon tests across US cities and on public transport.

It was a bacteria which they believed was harmless but which would mimic the dispersal of deadly biological agents such as anthrax.

But later research showed that the strain of Bacillus globigii, or BG, did pose a risk to people who were ill or whose immune system was failing

The real laughable farce of all this, is Hagee is no different than many Christian Fundamentalist preachers in supporting Israel with the end goal being the death of all the Jews & Muslims. But this NEVER gets any time in the media, period.

The Israel Lobby considers these people “useful fools.” IMHO, they are extremely dangerous for the United States, and likely for Israel as well.

Regardless of Rev. Wright’s knowledge and sincerity, which is likely to go farther toward resolving/healing the racial divide in the United States:

the election of the first African-American president in U.S. history;

or the true acceptance of guilt by all white americans and repentence for the actions of their ancestors and themselves?

Personally, I’m a pramatist.

And John McCain, the Republican nominee for President of the United States, wooed and won the support of this blasphemous preacher John Hagee — and the to-do is about Rev. Wright?

Matt Taibbi on Countdown

Taibbi: “McCain would put out a website in Esperanto if he thought it would get him votes…”

Saw that in the news yesterday. I’m old enough to remember those laws. And living in Virginia. It’s hard to believe that that crap existed until only 50 years ago.

which is likely to go farther toward resolving/healing the racial divide in the United States:

no white american has the right to answer this for black americans.

imo, there can never be a real healing if white americans like me don’t listen very very closely to the what black americans have to say - especially those who have not been assimilated into mainstream white culture.

pragmatist

According to the late, lamented Gary Webb the CIA deliberately spread crack to the inner cities. Webb was excoriated in the press and by his own editor, but in the end he was vindicated when CIA Inspector General Frederick Hitz confirmed what he had written in Dark Alliance: The CIA, the Contras, and Crack Cocaine Explosion. But none of the excoriators mentioned that.

Do any of us, regardless of race, creed, etc, ever have the right to answer for another?

p.s. this has nothing to do with guilt. it has to do with truth and who gets to define what is nutty and who gets to define what is the experience of being american.

we aren’t responsible for what our ancestors did. but we are responsible for what we do. today.

do we tell the wrights of the world to STFU? or do we listen?

Roland Martin made some good points yesterday related to your comment:

For them, Wright’s “hate” was a stench. Their “hate” comes up smelling like roses. But to every politician, whether you are a Democrat or a Republican: Beware. The die has been cast. The repeated denunciations of Wright will now lead each and every single one of you to have your pastors’ oral and written words examined. If even one thing is said that can be construed as criticizing America or deemed hateful, then expect to see it on YouTube and replayed for millions to see. I suggest you go to your pastor now and say, “Please, watch what you say. I don’t want to have to denounce you on national television.”

To my media pals who are part of the conservative media elite, we’ll be watching. And listening. Let’s just see if you’re as willing to tear apart one of your own.

Trust me, I won’t be holding my breath.

And their LSD experiments on unsuspecting people.

I listen.

no.

but our white american culture has such a history of writing out the experiences and words of black americans (and not just black americans, but that is the current topic) that i think we have an added responsibility to listen when the opportunity confronts us.

I don’t advocate not listening to anyone. I’m only saying that, in the final analysis, some efforts offer more promise than others and, in my view, the more probable efforts deserve greater support.

For myself, I liked what Rev. Wright had to say on Moyers and thought it was helpful on all accounts. In the press conference, I thought his ego and sacrcasm came into play and was harmful. With regard to the AIDs issue, I thought he waffled and said that American history indicated it was possible. All in all, I thought he should have stopped with the Moyers interview and would have successfully defended his own ideas and beliefs without damaging the Obama effort.

Which was part of the horrific MK-Ultra mind control experimentation that went on for several decades.

bless you, you do.

*blush*

excellent, excellent point.

one of the things that, i think, makes wright so dangerous - because if we listened to him we’d have to address all these issues that everyone is bringing up on this thread.

it is the mainstream’s ignorance of our country’s own history that i think is what is truly dangerous.

and their villifying Congresswoman Waters for demanding an investigation

I don’t think it’s ignorance. I think it’s willful denial. It interferes with the “world through rose coloured glasses” view they have and try to paint for the rest of the world. Polish a turd it’s still a turd.

I’m with Arthur Silber on the whole Rev. Wright “controversy”:

But many of the subjects that I discuss here are exceedingly grim. Sometimes, it gets to be far more than I can bear, so I need to leave it alone for a while. But then, something completely unexpected turns up. A Jeremiah Wright appears on the scene. He causes me to feel more radicalized than ever, and I feel young again. Reverend Wright has performed an invaluable service, for those able to recognize and appreciate it. He has spoken a number of truths of critical importance — see here and here for some background on that. And he has also caused a number of people to reveal themselves as significant frauds. I refer, of course, to many liberals and progressives, especially white liberals and progressives. When the moment of testing arrived, many liberals and progressives denounced Wright in terms that are indistinguishable from those employed by writers at National Review, or people like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. You would think it might trouble these self-proclaimed liberals and progressives that they find themselves in such company, but it doesn’t. This is useful information. Thanks, Reverend.

Link

I’m only saying that, in the final analysis, some efforts offer more promise than others and, in my view, the more probable efforts deserve greater support.

in whose final analysis?

your final analysis does not equal THE final analysis. that’s party of the point i’m trying to make.

i wonder what wright’s analysis is? what if wright’s analysis is different than yours or mine? can we dismiss his analysis without even knowing what it is? shouldn’t he have as much - or more of a say than i do? i think so.

(and yes, i’m using wright as a stand it, which is wrong - i hope you-all will understand).

it is the mainstream’s ignorance of our country’s own history that i think is what is truly dangerous.

To me, the Wright episode suggests that it is not an ignorance of our country’s history as much as an active unwillingness to confront or investigate it. Change will be impossible until this unwillingness is overcome.

Right f***ing on!!!

Americans are way too willing to believe their own propaganda.

SD and jim - yeah, but i was trying to give the benefit of the doubt. after all, the point is to help people get past their own issues so that they can try taking off the rose colored glasses. i say we try to help them do that. it’s not easy (speaking from my own experience here).

If I had to guess, I would say Wright’s final analysis,if he’s honest, is judgement day. I can’t speculate that far myself, so mine is currently the election, and Wright’s actions versus those of Obama’s.

I’m not in the habit of making grand prounouncements which I think are represent universal truth, except to say that I don’t think either you or I know what it is. So, anytime I offer a comment, it is always only my opinion.

agreed.

reading digby especially was so disheartening. but i wouldn’t go so far as to call everyone who reacted badly a fraud. let’s see how they deal with this as they have time to reflect. and lets do what we can to both confront and support them

I’ve been reading Lieberman’s speech to CUFI at the link in the post, and laughed out loud when I read this line: “The Jewish people went into a brief exile, returning 48 years later to rebuild [the temple].”

A “brief” exile? I think Joe’s been taking lessons from John “100 years in Iraq” McCain.

(And for those of you reading along in the speech, Joe’s a bit mistaken in his timeline. Jesus of Nazareth did *not* do his preaching during the exile or shortly thereafter. Try about 600 years later, Joe.)

Rotsa Ruck.

The general American public has the historical perspective of a toddler.

Reverend Wright didn’t scare me at all.

I read Haley’s autobio of Malcolm X in high school.

I agree. I found that leading by example works for me. Showing them that the things they’re afraid of are really things that aren’t scary when looked at objectively. But no, it isn’t easy.

If I had to guess, I would say Wright’s final analysis,if he’s honest, is judgement day.

have you listened to his sermons?

i’ve listened to both (the two that are available) several times and closely (and once again yesterday). and i don’t think his message is one of judgement alone - it’s a judgement that leads to reconciliation, not a judgement to be feared.

but i do wish we could hear from the good rev. himself. i’ve been tempted several time to write him and i may yet do it.

selise, there is no excuse for some of the people who denounced Wright. They’ve been studying and obsessing about politics for years, decades even. As “progressives” if they haven’t come across and reflected upon the things Wright has said, they don’t deserve to be called progressive.

If ‘rapture’ takes you to a place that includes people like Bush and Hagee, I’m glad that I’m not going.

I still listen to the clips of Malcolm X’s speeches. There’s a lot of fire there that scares the hell out of people but there’s so much truth over and above the fire.

There are going to be a lot of pissed off fundies when they find themselves right in the middle of the s@#tstorm they long for.

Gotta go to work. Gonna hafta change my working hours if I keep hangin’ out here in the mornings. Too much quality time to be wasted at work.

Sayonara

Peace Love Light

i don’t think digby is a progressive (and didn’t before this). but that doesn’t mean i don’t hope to win her over.

imo, many people have confused progressive with democrat (the party) when the two have almost nothing to do with each other.

I’m not sure why my #75 has a mailto link in s@#tstorm.

because it has an “@”

see ya SD. hope you have a great day.

was hoping to see Norske this morning, but i’m going to have step away for a bit myself in a minute (although i will be back for the 10am HJC hearing).

(ok, it did it again. oh well)

selise, I haven’t read Digby on a daily basis, but it seems to me she presents herself as a progressive Democrat. But I’m not really speaking of her specifically, although I did read and agree with some of her own commenters who were extremely disappointed with her on the Wright issue.

I listened to Moyers, the Press Association speech, and a few clips from the NAACP speech. I believe it was the Moyers discussion which contained a number of large, contextual segements of the sermons. I was much impressed by his scholarship and knowledge. On Moyers, I thought he was kindly. I thought his subsequent defensiveness and sarcasm, although perhaps understandable, was harmful. Actually, it fit the description of Obama’s earlier explanation regarding continuing bitterness of earlier generations. Right now, I think the election of Obama and familiarity of Americans with an effective black leader will have a greater effect on ultimate reconcilliation than Rev. Wright’s sermons.

not exactly disagreeing with you (i think)…. just want to add to your judgement that we are all works in progress, and that when we react badly (no excuses here) to something, it can motivates us to some self reflection.

that is what i would like to see.

i fear that arthur’s judgement alone leaves us frozen in time - without the understanding that we are all capable of growth and change.

I’m more anxious for their rapture than they are. Come on already!

I’ve always thought that the reason these crazies support Israel is because, if it didn’t exist, all the Jews would come to America. Either that or they hate Islam more, so, you know, the enemy of my enemy…

o/t

we are f’d

officials have increasingly relied on two giant mortgage companies — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — to keep the housing market afloat.

But with mortgage defaults and foreclosures rising, Bush administration officials, regulators and lawmakers are nervously asking whether these two companies, would-be saviors of the housing market, will soon need saving themselves.

The companies, which say fears that they might falter are baseless,
NYT

oh pheww … baseless, thank gaia

but wait,

From the WSJ: Fannie Mae Swings to Loss, To Seek Fresh $6 Billion

Looking forward, Fannie said it expects “severe weakness in the housing market to continue in 2008,” with the weakness projected to “lead to increased delinquencies, defaults and foreclosures on mortgage loans, and slower growth in U.S. residential mortgage debt outstanding.”

WSJ

From the LA Times

Ted Key, the magazine cartoonist who created the bossy but lovable maid Hazel in the 1940s and later the time-traveling Mr. Peabody and Sherman of Rocky and Bullwinkle TV cartoon fame, has died. He was 95.

…

But even more famous today than “Hazel” for many people, Peter Key said, are the two characters his father created for producer Jay Ward in the late ’50s for the cartoon series “Rocky and His Friends” — the genius dog Mr. Peabody and his adopted boy, Sherman, who traveled back in time in the WABAC machine.

“I think they were popular just because they were so wild,” he said. It was “the inherent insanity of what they were and what they did, combined with that sort of adult sophistication that the Ward cartoons had.”

…

crosstimbers - i’m not saying that you are wrong, or that your analysis is not a thoughtful, reasoned one. on the contrary, i think it is.

what i’m trying to get to though, is that your analysis is only your analysis. when it comes to racial reconcilliation in this country, i’m still going to argue that rev. wright (among many, many other voices) needs to be heard.

and his sermons are just one small way to do that… surely not enough - but they, imo, add a great deal to the moyers and npc events. as i said the first time i heard them - not even moyers’ longer clips do wright justice.

…. and now i must really go try to do a few things before the hearing begins, but instead of insisting on the last word, i will come back to this thread later today and read any comments directed to me.

peace to all and many thanks for this discussion.

hey Selise -

Phillipe Sands - will his testimony be public ? there was talk (from the Republics of course) that they would initially interview him in camera

Live streaming is available from the committee website. They also just had a short hearing to approve subpoenas for Addington and Yoo. I definitely heard approval on the Addington subpoena. Was anyone else listening? Did they subpoena Yoo, also? It was stated that Addington has said that he will appear if subpoenaed.

Again, and I promise I’m not trying to be disagreeable, but bloggers such as Digby spend a lot of time trying to counter right wing media narratives. Yet, on this particular issue, they went right along with them. Why is that? Is it because, as some suspect, she’s a Hillary supporter? That’s all well and good. But as Arthur said, it is useful information to know that your favorite blogger (again, not speaking just of Digby) is a partisan Democrat first and a progressive 10th. I’d wager a lot of people didn’t realize that fact.

The most important point is that these bloggers, as well as nominally liberal print and broadcast reporteres, contributed to the lying propaganda that all is well in America, and the gov’t has never done anything truly bad.

Oops, link for hearing.

selise;

Just wanted you to know that I find your perspective and the material you use to back it up to be absolutely the ‘best’.

You consistently stand for reason, tolerance and understanding.

Thank you.

No blushing, please.

Truth is truth …

I’m certainly not arguing with the fact that Rev. Wright has much to say and that, the more people who could read and objectively consider what he says, the better off we would be. I fully understand your interest and I may read further also. However, I know from what you’ve said previously that you think Obama’s repudiation is reprehensible. I’m only suggesting that, to Obama and others who have put a lot into his effort, Rev. Wright’s press conference and NAACP demeanor could easily be seen as a knife in the back to their effort.

KayInMaine,
It’s not that Lieberman has “thrown out his beliefs.” It’s that his beliefs are insane. Here’s a site that reflects how most Jews really feel about Christian Zionism:
http://www.jewsonfirst.org/

KayInMaine,
Also, your interpretation of what Wright meant about ethnic bombs is not correct. I’m sure this is what he was referring to:
http://www.twf.org/News/Y1998/.....bGerm.html

Of course this is one of those “mad scientist” projects so beloved by the criminally insane, and it could not work the way intended because genetics and epidemiology are both way too complex. It would kill lots of people you didn’t “target,” including lots of your own, and could very well go completely out of control. One of the truly most criminal AND stupidest ideas I have ever heard of.

Apropos ‘nothing’ …

We can no longer speak, honestly, of American ‘civilization’. We may, in ‘good’ conscience, speak of American brutalization and American barbarism, however.

We are ALL, now, ‘good’ Americans, just as, once, there were ‘good’ German folk …