Liddy Dole is trying the "What party? I don’t know this Republican party of which you speak." tap dance regarding the NCGOP. Chock full o’ empty, eh, Liddy? Pam has the scoop:
…What I did receive this afternoon was a fax from Communications Director Hogan Gidley of the Elizabeth Dole campaign regarding the petition that I delivered last Friday on behalf of 1265 readers of Firedoglake, Pam’s House Blend, and BlueNC who signed the petition. The petition requested that the North Carolina senator ask Linda Daves of the NC Republican party to stop running the color-aroused anti-Obama ad called "Extreme," which tries to draw some sort of connection between Dem gubernatorial candidates Bev Perdue and Richard Moore (both endorsed Obama) and Reverend Jeremiah Wright.
What was Dole’s response? I have no idea, since the response is from Mr. Gidley, there’s no way for me to know whether my senator actually read the petition. The letter I received is an exercise in predictable spin; it doesn’t address the NCGOP’s ad or her party’s involvement and endorsement of playing to people’s biases. Gidley:
Thank you very much for delivering the petition. As Senator Dole’s campaign spokesman, I would like to take the opportunity to respond. The political advertisement that you reference has nothing to do with Senator Dole’s campaign, nor does she plan on refereeing third party political advertisements.
So state parties can run amok. I guess it’s hands-off for Liddy. What the Dole campaign laughably calls for, in letter to NCDP party chair Jerry Meek from Dole consultant Mark Stephens (the second page of the document), is for the NC Democratic Party not to run any advertising against Dole, to tell her Dem opponent to refrain from anti-Dole ads, and to tell the national party not to run third party ads against her!
Well, that’s beyond pathetic. Leadership: not what Liddy Dole does. Clearly.
Hello, earth to Liddy — the NCGOP is running their offensive, race-baiting ad as a YouTube on the front page of their website (it’s on the internets, dear, have your staff pull it up for you). And it says "The Official Website of the North Carolina Republican Party" right there on the front page, along with identifying you, dear, as one of their very own NCGOP-endorsed candidates.
Since the NCGOP is some random third party with which she claims no connection, methinks she ought to return the thousands of dollars in political money they have given her. Since she has no acknowledged connection to their "third party ads," then she probably shouldn’t take their filthy money either, right? Bless her heart…
Related posts:
- G. Gordon Liddy Thinks Women Should Stay At Home Until Menopause
- So-Called “Bipartisan” Daschle-Dole-Baker-Mitchell Health Compromise: Exactly What the Insurance Companies Wanted
- Late Night: Your Favorite World’s Greatest Deliberative Body Sucks, Because It’s Full of Senators
- Dems’ and Dole’s Flaccid Health Care Advocacy
- SCOTUS: Compare GOP Stall On Alito and CAP With Full Disclosure On Sotomayor and PRLDEF
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No pineapple in that can.
Good Morning Christy! How is beautiful West Virginia this morning?
Maybe her husband needs to give her some of those pills he uses.
From the chairman of NC GOP, on the rollout of their “Extreme” ad:
Liddy, you’re being surrounded . . .
OT Georgia and Russia are on the brink of war Georgia wants to join NATO.
“We know what the signals are when you see propaganda waged against Georgia. We see Russian troops entering our territories on the basis of false information,” he said.
Georgia, a vital energy transit route in the Caucasus region, has angered Russia, its former Soviet master with which it shares a land border, by seeking NATO membership.
An April summit of the U.S.-led Western alliance stopped short of giving it a definite track towards membership but confirmed it would enter one day.
Russia has said its troop build-up is needed to counter what it says are Georgian plans to attack Abkhazia, a sliver of land by the Black Sea, and has accused Tbilisi of trying to suck the West into a war — allegations Georgia rejects.
Tensions have been steadily mounting and escalated after Georgia accused Russia of shooting down one of its drones over Abkhazia in April, a claim Russia denied.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200…..inister_dc
Voted this morning and there was a small line. Felt good.
well, I’m sure ms liddy has nothing to do with the ncgop, the campaign finance fairies drop off all that cabbage under the cabbage leaves at night
Since the NCGOP is some random third party with which she claims no connection, methinks she ought to return the thousands of dollars in political money they have given her. Since she has no acknowledged connection to their “third party ads,” then she probably shouldn’t take their filthy money either, right? Bless her heart…
Sounds like the words to a third party tv ad. We need to embarrass Liddy why because she likes the spotlight.
It’s amazing how much you can forget when you are a US Senator, isn’t it?
Miz Liddy votes with the GOP 92% of the time; votes with her buddy George W. 49/50 times. She votes against kids; she votes against women – from
http://www.whereisliddy.com/
Elizabeth Dole has voted:
• No on SCHIP, the Children’s Health Insurance Program
• No on implementing recommendations of the 9/11 Commission
• No on improved health care for returning veterans
• No on withdrawing troops from Iraq
• No on stem cell research
• No to the Webb Amendment, which would have mandated more time between deployments for our troops
• No to Habeas Corpus
• No to Clean Energy
• Yes on shifting the tax burden to working class Americans
• Yes on Samuel Alito
• Yes to cutting $40 billion from social, child support and student lending programs.
• Yes to a free trade zone between the United States, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras and Nicaragua
• Yes to making it harder to declare bankruptcy
• Yes to higher taxes on farmers who produce wind energy
• Yes to Michael B. Mukasey’s nomination to be Attorney General
n letter to NCDP party chair Jerry Meek from Dole consultant Mark Stephens (the second page of the document), is for the NC Democratic Party not to run any advertising against Dole, to tell her Dem opponent to refrain from anti-Dole ads, and to tell the national party not to run third party ads against her!
We know now that she is afraid of third party ads probably because she and the GOP are going to use racist third party ads allot this election.
So she fears them being used on her, I say we oblige her fears.
The GOP is a bunch of adrenaline junkies they use the fear of 9/11 to get what they wanted for years.
Now lets show Liddy the flip side of a fear addiction PANIC find what she fears like third party ads and give her plenty.
Is anyone else watching the HJC hearing? Booga-booga coming from the R’s now and they even used Schumer’s statement from June 2004 that torture shouldn’t always be illegal. I feel sick…
Don’t worry Jack Bauer will save us.
funny….. thought you were talking about my Senator …. grampy McSame?
TobyWollin Perfect! you just listed all of her fears now we just need some ads.
Fox and the GOP lie and distort we run on the issues of course with Liddy’s record we don’t need to lie!
Yep, the one item NOT on that list is her vote against the Ledbetter bill – but then again, I guess she’s ‘got hers’ so she doesn’t give a hoot.
Good morning, Christy,
Good morning, all,
Some Senators actually make a career of forgetting.
But they always get away with it.
It helps if the ‘people’ are forgetful, as well …
Let us all remember to dis-remember whatever is in our best interest.
OT
*sigh*
Issa
Indeed. Possibly the finest insult phrase ever uttered.
Playing out the clock already, isn’t he?
…and if ever there was a waste of time, it’s Issa
you bet. i think this has the potential to be a very, very important hearing and am looking forward to hearing from sands.
9/11 Adrenaline Fear Junkies after 7 years of Fox induced daily fear must be feeling pretty burned out even the 30%ers must be getting tolerant to the drug.
So either Bush raises the fear level with a new war to overdose levels.
Or the junkies go cold turkey and junkies going cold turkey are lazy, apathetic, in pain etc they are not the type to vote.
But does a psychology addiction have the same steps as a physical one? This election is providing such insights into group dynamics and the human character.
People will right papers about even the small things about this election for years, papers that relate to other fields besides politics.
Do you have a link? I can’t find it.
Try here.
We live in interesting times:)
A perfectly predictable case of willful misunderstanding. She wasn’t asked as a candidate to act, but in her role as a sitting senator.
1,834 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Selise:
Have you “seen” (heard from) Citizen Raven lately…I been workin’ and haven’t been able ta get in at nite…has he been run out or blacklisted too?
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION THERE’S STILL WORK TA BE DONE RIGHT HERE!!
kinmo – you can also click on my name to get this week’s schedule of hearings (at least that was the schedule as best i could find when i put the list together yesterday).
Ahh, thank you.
Welcome to the confusing world of trying to interact with Sen. Dole. I hear the non-responsive answer from her office, whether it is the Senate one or the campaign one, is standard operating procedure. Sad.
Raven is here quite frequently. In fact, he was here all day yesterday.
So why in the hell is her campain manager responding.
He was here this morning.
Citizen selise:
Good thanx…seeya!
To be Republican is to be a hypocrite. Elizabeth Dole is married to Bob Dole whom we know for his Vi*agra fame but he used to be the Republican leader in the Senate and its top hatchet man and attack dog. For Republicans to throw mud and then to act all sanctimonious about it (McCain) or act like it has nothing to do with them (Dole) is and has always been Standard Operating Procedure for Republicans. Besides the Republicans have been running on race in the South for 40 years. Do any of us think that anything will be different this time around?
Dole is refusing to support the “new” GI Bill. That will really hurt her in NC if the PR is handled well. She’s already in trouble over an issue that has received little national press.
The Navy is trying to build a carrier practice landing field (OLF) in rural eastern NC. It has been a debacle by the government from the outset ( original location was to be near a wildlife refuge) and the “little people” rose up.
Liddy was nowhere to be found and the possibility is not dead. They are just considering other locations. People are furious and this issue really amplifies that her loyalties are inside the beltline, not to her constituents.
She also has committed a cardinal sin…a mistake that never happened during the Jesse Helms days. Her constituent services simply suck. His office’s operation was masterful in that regard and largely apolitical.
She’s ripe unless all of this is under the radar because of the pres./gov. races.
citizen norske – raven was here earlier this morning, and gave us a link to a great short video on tabbi’s new book (recommended if you can watch youtubes).
and p.s. i don’t think anyone’s been blacklisted recently. and yesterday’s thread has not, to my knowledge, been censored (just checked again). let’s work together to challenge each other to be the best we can, and if good folks are willing to reconsider their positions, that is a very, very good thing and imo deserves our thanks.
was hoping to see you here this morning – you’ve made my day!
No. This has been another edition of…
In 1942, Dole joined the United States Army’s Enlisted Reserve Corps to fight in World War II. He became a second lieutenant in the Army’s 10th Mountain Division.
In April of 1945, while engaged in combat in the hills of northern Italy, he was hit by German machine gun fire in his upper right back. His right arm was also badly injured. He had to wait nine hours on the battlefield before being taken to the 15th Evacuation Hospital. He began his recovery at a U.S. Army hospital in Michigan, where he met future fellow politician Daniel Inouye. His right arm was paralyzed; Dole often carries a pen in his right hand to signal that he cannot shake hands with that arm.
The hospital where he recovered from his wounds, Battle Creek Sanitarium, is now named Hart-Dole-Inouye Federal Center in honor of the three former U.S. Senators treated at the hospital: Philip Hart, Daniel Inouye and Dole himself.
Dole was twice decorated for heroism, receiving two Purple Hearts for his injuries, and the Bronze Star with combat “V” for valor for his attempt to assist a downed radio man.
Interesting discussion c-span 3 “Diesel Prices”
Nah, I’ve been annoying people in a different orbit.
I have heard, and you can probably confirm on this, that she’s rarely in NC and that her office is completely non-responsive, even on GOP requests for constituent services. Very much the cardinal sin in the South…
Yes this time African American voters will vote in numbers and the Racist 30%er vote will be depressed because of Bush ad McCain its a Perfect Storm! Bwahahaha!
oops! forgot to include the link to raven’s video recommendation.
a must see for whoever can view youtubes (5.6MB)
beat me to it.
So, to review . . .
McCain calls for the NC GOP to stop running the ad, and all we hear is *crickets*. “Sure, we’re in the same party, but I’ve got no power over them,” says the presumptive presidential nominee of the Republican party.
Liddy Dole is asked to speak out against the ad, and all we hear is *crickets*. “Sure, we’re in the same party, and we’re in the same state, but I’ve got no power over them,” says the Republican senior Senator from North Carolina.
Makes me want to get out my fishing gear and head for NC. There’s obviously a lot of crickets to use for bait, just lying around and chirping.
“In its prouder days, OLC did say no to Presidents”
Ahh, those were the days….
opening statement now from:
sorry to go all ot on you christy, but i figure this hearing is of interest to you too.
SIGH So sad, yet so true…
No problem — I’m juggling twenty things at once this morning — it’s helpful…
Did Bob Dole take advantage of the new GI Bill and any word on the state of her reelection campaign I hope we have someone good.
cohn: torture and inhuman treatment can never be made legal – there is no immunity.
Have met Dole, he’s much more handicapped physically than it seems from video. Whatever else we may think of him and his politics, he served our country in a way that this current batch of Repubs seems to think is beneath them.
sorry my comment at 52 should be old GI bill
Yea, it doesn’t excuse some of his dopey stands but I’m getting pretty tired of these constant Viagra references. Who gives a shit?
I’m sure he did.
cohn quoting yoo: it is legal for the president to order a person to be tortured by crushing the testicles of his child.
cohn is giving a powerful opening (ianal, so only judging as a lay citizen).
Oops, Cohn called them “DOG lawyers” and then corrected to “DOJ” LOL
Christy -
This news (via Raw Story) just came to my attention:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/m…..62008.html
ole graduated from Russell High School in the spring of 1941 and enrolled at the University of Kansas the following autumn. Dole, a star high school athlete in his native Russell, earned a coveted spot on the Kansas Jayhawks basketball team under legendary coach Phog Allen. While in college, he joined the Kappa Sigma fraternity. Dole’s study of law at KU was interrupted by World War II. After the war, Dole returned to being a law student. He attended the University of Arizona from 1948 to 1951 and earned his degree from Washburn University in 1952.
Christy,
You are right. She’s virtually never here and her schedule is never published. If Dole makes it here, it’s a quick, quiet trip for Rethug purposes or a photo op on a military base.
When she finally deigned to have a hearing on the proposed OLF (very late in the process), it was held in Charlotte…virtually across the entire breadth of the state from the propsed site. Guess she and her staff thought the farmers wouldn’t show…but they did.
The actual original location was shelved not because of political pressure but through a court case of several years that was heard by a Republican judge. Everyone I know here firmly believes she was silent to kowtow to Warner. The field would have lessened the training flighta at Oceana in Va.Beach. She only addressed North Carolinians’s interests after Warner announced his retirement.
One of the remaining possible sites is near the Blackwater HQ in extreme NE NC. Even those residents don’t want it.
If a resident of NC needs a service from a senator, they call Burr.
Phillipe Sands up now
under the command authority doctrine of our country the commander are guilty of the crime if they knew or should have known of it. including the cic. they are liable for war crimes charges.
the potus can no more order torture than he can order genocide or the institution of slavery.
sands is up.
And then there’s Liddy Dole. From her wiki:
It would be nice to see her be able to spend more time with her husband, come next January.
Is he getting immunity!
1,834 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Selise:
“…yesterdays thread has not, to my knowledge, been censored…”
Yes it has but then, how would you know if ya didn’t know what was originally typed….that’s the insidious nature of censorship and the its most effective form is accomplished by self-satisfied “liberals” who are jest gunna protect the great unwashed from themselves without the poor dears knowin it’s happenin’ to ‘em. So yes,selise, the balance of the last postings from yesterday WERE “edited” with no indication that the words had been changed. Sad, huh…makes me wanna cry.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION AND DON’T BE LEFT WITH THE LESSER EVIL!!
I think we can attack Liddy then on not supporting the new GI bill.
Liddie looks like her cosmetic surgeon used Peeps filling to stuff her face.
Between her bad face surgery and Bob’s boner ads and bad hair dye, they have to be the ghouliest power couple I have ever seen.
-G
Yup. It’s called the first rule of leadership: Every thing is your fault.
I gave Dole a lot of credit for this fact and his occasional maverick stance, although I disliked his conservatism and hatchet-man personna at other times. I was really repulsed by his insinuation, when questioned in 2004, that John Kerry’s Purple Heart was contrived.
Damn right
roger
Norske — You were told, and have been repeatedly told, publicly in the threads to stop using that word. That you keep using it is your own passive-aggressive choice. But you were also told yesterday what would be the result of that choice — publicly, and in the thread. To pretend otherwise is quite simply false.
Liddy, Liddy, Liddy on the Labels, Labels, Labels.
Hey, is there a NON-realAudio link to hearings?
I have not yet read or heard anything stating whether he or anyone else has been granted immunity.
Bob Dole was a war hero. He was also a dreadful partisan hack.
Why would we be edited after a thread closes down? We are edited as we talk by the mods although on the late nite threads I think the mods are a bit slow cause they are sleepy.
But why edit after the commenter is gone?
Sands is building a very tight case that the highest levels of the US government have committed war crimes.
Trent Lott is currently on MSNBC wearing a yellow tie…
I always maintained an amount of respect for him up until that point.
There comes a time when your present behavior washes away your past achievements.
That was Bob Dole’s shark jumping moment.
-G
loved his smackdown on Rivkin(sp?)
He better not get immunity. Still I’m sure the Hague won’t care about Congressional immunity.
It was not edited after the thread went down — it was edited as Norske continued to make comments on the spot. And he knows that as well.
via RawStory
US contractors accused in Abu Ghraib torture suit
link
This is a voluntary association. No one is forced to come here right?
that is very, very sad news, but thank you for telling me. perhaps we can think about requesting some kind an indication of what what was censored?
perhaps this would be a good topic for discussion during late, late nite? not to be secretive, but to keep the discussion from interfering with other discussion on other topics? will look for you early mornings…
Bob was a war hero, partisan hack and had the same issues with women that afflict many other powerful men in the Republican party.
There was a great article on him and Liddy “Valley of the Doles” years ago in “Vanity Fair” written by Gail Sheehy. Bob and Newt have a lot more in common than politics.
Fucking Rivkin. I can’t stand Rivkin.
-G
Committee assignments
Dole is a member of the following U.S. Senate committees:
* U.S. Senate Committee on Armed Services
o Emerging Threats and Capabilities (Ranking Member)
o Personnel
o Readiness and Management Support
* U.S. Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs
o Financial Institutions
o Housing, Transportation, and Community Development
o Security and International Trade and Finance
* U.S. Senate Select Committee on Aging
* U.S. Senate Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship
[edit]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Dole
Just Like McCain a member of the Armed Services Committe where was her and McCain’s Senate oversight on the KBR electrocute how many solders now scandal?
Oh for hell’s sakes — as I said yesterday, the only thing being changed was a single word — which Norske has been repeatedly asked to stop using. Nothing else. NOTHING else.
I don’t know why they keep putting him up as the GOP standard bearer — his testimonial style is incredibly off-putting. Although maybe they don’t have a choice in terms of finding many other water-carriers on that issue.
Who is Sands?
Christy – sure hope you’re getting to listen to this – it’s as if they are reading yours and lhp’s posts :D
have never heard testimony so closely echo our sentiments here
Don’t some of these whack jobs just freelance?
wrote torture team article in last month’s vanity fair
serious legal wonk, married to american, 3 dual citizenship children
Sorry
Ditto.
Here’s his academic bio.
His new book is said to be wonderful; I intend to buy it soon.
They do — and Rivkin does that a lot. But to get an invite for testimony, there is generally agreement from both sides of the leadership on who to call — especially when they will be representing the other side of the aisle’s views. So someone on the GOP side keeps signing off on Rivkin…
The GOP minders probably find his clothing choices a little more telegenic and tasteful than Victoria Toensing’s.
-G
No problem, really.
thingscomeundone -
here is vanity fair article -
linky
Is the testimony getting streamed online?
-G
Well, recalling that lovely reddish rust-colored ensemble from her last bout in front of the committee, I can see why. *g*
committee stream
no. but that is not the point. some of us, and i include myself in this, have put a hell of a lot of effort into supporting efforts here because of what we were told the goals of the site were – and that, if nothing else, i think gives us the moral right and indeed responsibility to at least speak our minds and expect to be heard when the rules are being changed in a way that seems confusing and contrary to the previous goals and purposes as we understood them.
I’m getting a 404 error for the new post.
My police officer brother jumped out of the seat when Rivkin declared that stress positions, sleep deprivation, temperature changes and the rest of the Guantanimo ghoul squad tactics were ‘SOP in police departments throughout America’.
Liar.
-G
When are we going to go after the KBR electrocution angle it hits Liddy it hits McCain I don’t see how American Union electricians make that kind of mistake. Where the workers union? Where they Iraqi in which case what other surprises are built into the Green Zone? Or were the workers undertrained foreigners brought in to Iraq because they work cheaper than Iraqi’s.
The problem of Iraqi unemployment leading desperate Iraqi’s to join terror groups should be another post itself.
That’s because it had a time change — am fixing something. Will be up again shortly…
important hearing – highly recommended… although i’m having trouble with the stream.
btw, c-span shows that they are covering it for later broadcast.
Well if it was only a single word and it wasn’t an obscenity, why bother to change it? There is also the principle. Censorship is censorship, if it is big or if it is small. This has a chilling effect on discourse and is antithetical to open discussion and progressive values. It is a power trip and a slippery slope. If people can’t use “McCl*nton” now, what will you not allow in the future? I find it completely inoffensive and if you have a problem with this you are likely to have a problem with anything.
Ch Conyers begins questioning Sands – a good start indeed
IS THIS Liddy person a mother?
10M children worldwide die from lack of health care
By TERESA CEROJANO – 8 hours ago
MANILA, Philippines (AP) — More than 200 million children worldwide under age 5 do not get basic health care, leading to nearly 10 million deaths annually from treatable ailments like diarrhea and pneumonia, a U.S.-based charity said Wednesday.
Nearly all of the deaths occur in the developing world, with poor children facing twice the risk of dying compared to richer children, according to Save the Children’s global report.
Sweden, Norway and Iceland top the ranking in terms of well-being for mothers and children in 146 countries surveyed, while Nigeria ranks last.
Eight out of 10 bottom-ranked countries are in sub-Saharan Africa, where four out of five mothers are likely to lose a child in their lifetime, Save the Children said.
The top three among the 55 developing countries ranked in the survey are the Philippines, Peru and South Africa — all surveyed for the first time. Indonesia and Turkmenistan tied for fourth.
how do republican WOMEN sleep at night,or look into a mirror?
sands and cohn have been great.
Yep, now he is advocating deep questioning of Addington.
Issa what?
I also do not find the word/concept offensive and think there is some evidence to support it. However, the hosts; Christy, Jane, Et al find the word to be offensive and have asked repeatedly for it not to be used. As guests, I think we should respect their wishes and be polite to the hosts. IMHO.
* U.S. Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs
o Financial Institutions
o Housing, Transportation, and Community Development
o Security and International Trade and Finance
Given the Housing Crises and the Bailout of financial companies by the Fed lowering the value of the dollar which hurts tax payers buying food and GAS.
I think we have plenty of material to go to town on Liddy.
You trying to push to see if you get an edit as well? Because as I said very clearly yesterday, I find that term unhelpful for the long-term. As Fern so eloquently stated in yesterday’s thread echoing something dakine said that was never answered, at the end of the day we are going to need supporters of both candidates to come together behind whomever ends up winning the nomination. And being obnoxious toward one of the Dem candidates — in a factually inaccurate way trying to tag them with a nickname to make them unpalatable — is not something I am going to sit back and be silent about.
And I meant it. This year’s election is too important to play passive aggressive word games at a time when tensions are so high among any number of factions within the Democratic party.
The interview with Scalia clarified the neocon perspective for me. If torture is not administered as punishment (ie., for punitive reasons), it’s not unconstitutional. So, hot irons, the strapedo, etc. can be used for fun and profit, so long as it can’t be called cruel and unusual punishment. I think they got their parsing interpretation from Torquemada.
sands is making the important point, imo, that questioning of addington and yoo on what constitutes torture is not that important – what is important when they come before the committee is to find out what actually happened. i hope the HJC is listening.
Actually, no — in wiki it says she and Bob Dole did not have any children of their own. Bob Dole has an adult daughter from his first marriage.
im so fed up with this CIRCULAR firing squad ,i was gonna leave till the primaries were over,i DONT need to get sick over this…we HAVE a grass ROOTS canidate,why people DONT support him,and pick flaws ,is TOTALLY beyond my comprehension….
Ok for what its worth I’m with Hugh
They, like most right winger, are so certain of their own recitude that reality simply bounces off.
I EFFING knew it!!!…she is DESPICKABLE,and incapable of feeelings.
Today is a good day to buy the Taibbi book using the FDL linky…a copy for you a copy for your mom–oh, and then there’s your local library…and, well, how do you think the VRWC does it?
hear hear, Christy…and here, here
i don’t understand why you would think censorship is helpful to this goal. i think it has just the opposite affect. and enforced unity is no unity at all. and we will have sacrificed solidarity in the process.
Norske: I noticed Howie was using “that word” over at Down with Tyranny. Great minds and all that…
Obviously, every blog can do whatever the hell they want. We all can chose which ones align with our sensibilities, or start our own. What’s the big whoop?
McCain’s apparently making a speech today on his philosophy for the court.
Let’s remember where we need to steer our energies, folks.
yes,a hackneyed expression…if it walks like a duck,quacks,etc why cannot we call it A DUCK?
Is it November yet? snippy snippy snippy
shorter Pense to Sands – surely we can torture KSM hard case types, right ?!?!?
really disconnected people
No, unfortunately, it is not. And I hate this fucking primary.
Sands – decades of UK Intel experience – it doesn’t work and in our case extended the influence of IRA for an extra 10-15 years
For the IRA and the UK, it extended the battles by 15 to 20 years. Maybe that’s why McCain is in favor now, it gets him part of the way to another 100 years of war…
Sands using the IRA as an example that “coersive” techniques don’t work. And busting us for using the phrase “war on terror”
does he EVEN understand what he is advocating? i wonder
sands is talking about being a kid and not being allowed to go the market by his mom because bombs were going off every week.
he says the view in the UK is that the use of torture extended the terrorism and violence by 15-20 years.
i’m profoundly influenced by that experience. i find it very sad that the usa administration did not ask their allies and friends for our advice and experience.
you would have found that any gov of the uk would tell you the same thing – do not go down that path. and do not use the phrase war on terrorism – that turns criminals into warriors.
if somebody was drowning you,would you say ANYTHING ,to make them stop?
w3rd
Perhaps you could supply us with a catechism on what you think is helpful. Because I think trying to control discussion in petty ways like this is far more unhelpful to progressivism than allowing a few snarky sobriquets. Or is it your position that this is only acceptable when you and Jane do it?
they wanted NO advice
Poppy,Baker,Powell were against the invasion,the advisors were a phone call away….
oh christy. on this we soooo agree.
Hugh — whatever button pushing you are trying to do, it’s noted. But I’m not changing my mind on the term.
Isn’t there also a suggestion that they needed after the fact justification? Didn’t some of the torture take place before the memos were issued?
Me too, Greg B. He makes me ill. What a marvelous Dr. Mengele he would have made.
yes ..snark is a great venting,and descdriptive tool…politics have always been through the ages,a cause,of sarcasm,and mirth
“Rising Diesel Prices” at the Transportation and Infrastructure committee, Highways & Transit Subcommittee, is quite good also. American Petroleum Institute chief economist John C. Felmy is quite the arrogant ass. Congresswoman Richardson (CA-38)chastised him for being “disrespectful” to Defazio.
Don Young blaming consumers for wasting gas. Decrying not drilling in protected areas. “Congress is pandering to the general public.”
i just feel,ALL was decided behind THE ENERGYTASK FORCE DOORS,way before even the election…they were gonna steal EASY money from the American public,and call it OUR PATRIOTIC DUTY…spit
I like Artur Davis. He’s tearing Rivkin up.
Artur Davis asking if the President should issue blanket pardons for members of exec branch who have committed torture. Rivkin doesn’t know. Davis saying that a pardon is for guilty people. Are the Bush people guilty?
Rivkin: Carter did it.
from wiki..political satire
Satire can be traced back throughout history; wherever organized government has existed, so has satire. The oldest example that has survived till today is Aristophanes. The Roman period, for example, gives us the satirical poems and epigrams of Martial while some social satire exists in the writings of Paul of Tarsus in the New Testament of the Bible. During the 20th century, satire moved from print media (in cartoons as political cartoons with heavy caricature and exaggeration, and in political magazines) and the parallel exposure of political scandals to performances (including television shows). Examples include musicians such as Tom Lehrer, live performance groups like the Capitol Steps, and public television and live performer Mark Russell. Additional subgenres include such literary classics as Gulliver’s Travels and Animal Farm, and more recently, internet Ezine and website sources such as The Onion, ArnoldSpeaks.com, and the Happening Happy Hippy Party. Some websites exist solely to poke fun at politicians, per the examples below.
We’ve got a bunch of people at the top of the Administration whose philosophy for the past forty years is “our way or the highway” – why should they ask the UK for advice? They probably think they are a bunch of poodles and pantywaists anyway.
i think this brings up an important point. one that george soros discussed in depth in his book “The Age of Fallibility” and how his ideas on open society are how we find better answers – because the answers don’t come from an authority on high, they come from the working out of questions by an open society.
hmmmm… i’m going to go looking for a good quote. soros can write – me, not so much.
The button you are pushing is noted as well. What you are doing is destructive and against the very values you espouse. I do not think you will change your mind and I find that disappointing.
brilliant koan
Issa: Harmon and Pelosi knew this was going on. Should they be part of the blanket pardon?
Rivkin: Dunno
Issa and Rivkin: get a room, guys.
it’s still nice to have sands make the point – that we don’t have all the answers and that asking for input from our friends and allies who may have relevant experience might help our thinking.
are all my comments on the various topics in this thread now converging on this one point?
Issa: Nothing to see here. Let’s move on.
As I am juggling child home with a cold and two threads at the moment, I’m leaving it there and moving on to the next thread…
Aw Gawd. Issa invoking “Law and Order” I’m muting him.
I think this primary season has been fantastic!
Finally, the DLC/Clinton charade is crashing down hard, and many more Dems are hip to what’s been happening. This is true with BigMedia as well, and hopefully this will lead to further growth of the New Media. It’s funny to read through comments at Barack’s site, where there are so many people involved and aware of these issues for the first time. Lotz of “I can’t believe Bill Clinton said that and that I used to support him!” or “I thought Chris Matthews was one of the better ones, but now I see he’s a total buffoon!” Good stuff and a necessary part of our progress.
Along with the overt and covert racism and sexism bubbling up, all this stuff needed to happen for us to move beyond it. It’s wild how so many of these issues have intersected at the same time. A Perfect Storm if you will…
You can bet “24″ will be next.
I think the repukes are sweating bullets as they try to rearrange the dialog, to dodge the hard facts being thrown at them. They don’t have as much wiggle room as before and it’s narrowing in on them. Little by little.
Get em Keith, get em Keith, get em Keith
LOL LOL
yep. the only example of the “ticking time bomb” situation cohn is aware of was on 24.
1,834 DAYZ AND THE KILLN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizens Hugh and selise:
First of all, I think that what we are seein’ here is a moment when the artist finds out that what she/he has created is far more’n the paint applied to the canvas or the consciousness behind the words put down on the page. Citizens Hardin Smith and Hamsher are beginnin’ ta realize the new territory at the edge of liberal values…that is, they can not control the direction or the substance of free speech without censorin’ the text. They have created the most intelligent and freest forum yet on the blognet but they don’t trust their reader-contributors enough to let them expand the vocabulary and work out the conflicts and contradictions that arise. The owners of the site certainly have the right to do whatever “editing” or monitoring they have the inclination and the time for but what neither Hardin Smith or Hamsher understand is that the very act of censoring exposes their own biases and takes the life outta the art they allowed to grow here.
Unfortunately, I think we are seein’ the “liberal” view of what it means to own a means of communication production…Hardin Smith and Hamsher see themselves as “en loco parentis” or study hall monitors to maintain the limits of discipline within the seething mass of adolescents. And , make no mistake, this is their right in our world, the freedom of speech is to he or she who owns the printing press. Unfortunately, there is another way but neither Hardin Smith not Hamsher have the courage to trust the people who make up the community they platted.
Don’t get in trouble with the overseers, Citizens, I ken take care of myOWN self…but remember that you may not be aware of what has been changed or, as was stated yesterday, you might not be aware of what is going on behind the curtain.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION AND DON’T LET ‘EM GIVE YOU THE LESSER EVIL!!
norske – i think what you say is very, very wise and i mostly agree. except for 2 things…
1) we are all stretching beyond what is familiar and within our comfort zone. just because our first reaction is not a great one, that doesn’t preclude a rethink and better responses in the future. why not try to encourage that process in myself and in others?
2) please don’t feel responsible for the actions i decide to take. if i ignore my conscience, it will hurt me far more than anything anyone else can do to me.
yo, Liddy: cashew later. much later.
Liddy Dole leadership at its best! IOW, this is as good as it gets with her. Let that be your cue.
This is a shorter version of something I said on the last thread:
Apropos ‘nothing’ …
We can no longer speak, meaningfully, of American ‘civilization’. We may, in ‘good’ conscience, speak of American brutalization and American barbarism, however.
We are, now, All ‘good’ Americans, just as ,once, there were ‘good’ German folk …
As America sinks ever deeper into mercenary arrogance and profound antipathy toward human rights and moral accoutability, we are in no doubt as to our essential superiority and perpetual role as God’s ‘chosen’ …
Why would anyone say such unlovely things?
Because, in truth, we must.
America has embraced torture, the slaughter of innocents, and the callous disregard of suffering so necessary to all great empires …
Of course, we claim to be too ‘busy’ or ‘unaware’ … and must trust our leaders to choose for us, absent any substantial protest, what is ‘best’.
It will also be decided for us; what is ‘permissible’, in terms of discussion, what is ‘important’ and the language which is ‘appropriate’ to use when we discuss these important, permissible and appropriate topics.
Citizen, Norske:
I salute you.
Mr. Gidley is using the now familiar Rovespeak, deceiving without technically lying. He says that Liddy’s campaign did not put out the offending ad. True, the state branch of the Republican Party did. So, it’s accurate but meaningless to call it a “third-party” ad, since that description attempts to deny any relationship, let alone the pervasive and mutually supporting one Miss Liddy has with her state GOP.
When a Senator from Arizona, McSame, claims more authority over the North Carolina Republican Party than that state’s own senator, it’s time to end Miss Liddy’s contract as a public employee.
If you really want to know what Liddy Dole is like, and I don’t just mean as Senator, but as a good reflection of her character read, Bad Blood, by Judith Reitman. It describes Dole’s time as head of the Red Cross. One needs to read it from beginning to end. I read this book before she ran for NC Senate and it was a cinch I would never vote for her. But a lot of people from Eastern North Carolina supported her, because gee, she was a woman and that was where it was at.