All the interwebs have been abuzz with the "gas tax holiday" pander-fest from McCain and Clinton. Turns out, everyone loves a holiday so much that it's been a rare moment of unity. It's been bipartisanly slammed by the MSM, both hemispheres of the blogs, and pretty much everybody else.
Why is it stupid? For starters, there's the math: shaving the federal tax rate of 18.4 cents off the price a $4.00 gallon isn't even a 5 percent cut. It's simply not a lot. Plus, gas prices are rocketing up so fast right that the one-time cut would barely register as a blip. A recent nationwide survey found prices at the pump up 15 cents, just in the last two weeks.
Sure, there's some argument about the precise causes, but much of the dynamic simply comes down to supply and demand. As economists are fond of pointing out, gas prices are high now -- and they have historically been high in the summertime -- because demand is up. As you learn in the first week of Econ 101 (and apparently un-learn in the first week of Running For Office 101): when demand is up but supply isn't, then prices go up too.
But McCain and Clinton apparently know better than to succumb to that smarty-pants logic of supply and demand. Here's Clinton on ABC's "This Week":
I'm not going to put in my lot with economists... Elite opinion is always on the side of doing things that really disadvantages the vast majority of Americans.
Take that you freedom-hating economists.
However, one low-income audience member smartly replied: "Call me crazy, but I listen to economists because I think I know what they studied."
Perhaps most annoyingly, it's precisely the wrong 18.4 cents to cut. Together with state gas taxes it's the only portion of your gas bill that comes back to you. The rest of it -- the stuff that's not public revenue -- goes to line the pockets of oil company execs and shareholders.
As Paul Krugman explains:
Cut taxes, and all that happens is that the pretax price rises by the same amount. The McCain gas tax plan is a giveaway to oil companies, disguised as a gift to consumers... So it's Econ 101: the tax cut really goes to the oil companies.
Just the kind of thing you might expect to hear from an economist.
The whole thing would be funny if the stakes weren't so high. In our refusal to develop serious alternatives to driving -- most of us need a car for virtually every trip -- we've concocted the perfect recipe to wreck household finances when prices go high. Plus, you know the drill about oil addiction and its apocalyptic horsemen: we invade countries, cuddle up with Middle Eastern theocracies, relegate our cities (and suburbs) to terrible traffic congestion, and we have to keep listening to Al Gore rant about the global warmings.
Speaking of global warming, it's no small curiosity that both Clinton and McCain have also endorsed carbon cap and trade programs. Cap and trade restricts the supply of carbon, which would raise the price of carbon and -- you see where I'm going -- therefore raises the price of gas.
So what gives? Is the gas tax holiday just a fantasy?
Probably. But it's a lovely fantasy, isn't it? It's the sort of thing we should try more often. If we close our eyes and wish really hard, we can make a holiday for anything we want.
Anything at all.
Personally, I'd like a holiday from not-having-a-sandwich-right-now. When I'm feeling more civic-minded, I'll wish for a holiday from the Iraq War. Later on, maybe we can talk about a holiday from abrogating habeas corpus. But maybe the best kind of holiday would be something that all Americans could agree on: a holiday from election year politics.
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Aloha, Eric!
Typical bullshit
Obama is right to call it for what it is!
Yay…Free Gas for the whole summer…whoopee…
No? Say wha?????
Heh, KO, just said that Hill ‘wasn’t gonna side with the economists on the Gas Tax holiday’…
Why is it stupid? For starters, there’s the math: shaving the federal tax rate of 18.4 cents off the price a $4.00 gallon isn’t even a 5 percent cut.
I remember delivering newspapers 7 days a week during 9/11 $2. a gallon gas and I would be drinking cheap beer and generic smokes. Me and the rest of the drivers in the warehouse would turn down extra work driving because it wasn’t worth it.
Wages for drivers have to go up in proportion to gas price hikes.
Diesel here in South Kona on the Big Island of Hawaii was $4.80 yesterday; I don’t drive all that much and get 42 mpg, so the “holiday” would net me a whopping $9, best case.
Weighing that against an estimated loss of $30 million in highway funds and an accompanying loss of ~!000 jobs in HAwaii, I’d rather NOT get the “giant cash bonanza” even if it was real - and of course its not, the refiner will get “my” $9.00.
It might be effective if the entire fleet of semi-truckers across the nation took a “gas holiday” for about a week or two…stick the corporations where it really hurts…you’d see some swift lobby pressure to drop the price right quick. JMHO
Cool, a fellow Big Islander…! I’m in Hilo town, myself!
Tell me again why the oil companies ought to be seeing all-time record profits?
The price of fuel will drop dramatically, right after Labor day and will rise again immediately following the election of John McCain.
It happened in ‘04 and I see no reason to believe it won’t happen again…talk about rigging the election…
What do we pack for a Gas Tax Holiday anyways?
To the elitists, giving Americans a half of tank of gas for the summer is just like telling us, “Let them eat cake!”.
I’m not going to put in my lot with economists… Elite opinion is always on the side of doing things that really disadvantages the vast majority of Americans.
Did Mark “Micro Trends” Penn poll test the word “Elites ” cause Bush is always saying that when he tries to connect to his 30%er base. I assume Hilary is still trying to win the 30%ers then.
Arrrgh! I have said over and over again we can’t win the 30%ers not unless we have a Reverse Shock Doctrine event.
Why is Hilary still listening to Penn?
The problem with a driving-centric economy is that the price hike propogate everywhere, starting with truckers and drivers. But it’s nearly impossible to force the prices back down when the fundamental dynamic skews supply against demand. The 18.4 cents won’t do anything — almost literally nothing — and it will actually heighten the potential for oil company profit taking.
Is the “low-income audience member” an elitist? Seems if you know what you’re talking about, or question her statements, Clinton believes you’re an elitist. Or something.
this kind of pandering gives me gas…sorry.
Like a major pain in the ass
This issue tends to make me fume.
It’s silly that Hillary tries to act as if she is not an elite.
Just a down-home girl who spent 8 years in the WH.
hardee har har.
I was going to say if race and gender issues make people uncomfortable, what will GAS do?
Even sillier when McCain says “millionaires don’t understand that $30 is a lot of money to the working class” or words to that effect…made me cringe.
Thanks for the help, dood.
As Paul Krugman explains:
Cut taxes, and all that happens is that the pretax price rises by the same amount. The McCain gas tax plan is a giveaway to oil companies, disguised as a gift to consumers… So it’s Econ 101: the tax cut really goes to the oil companies.
So cut demand instead do not raise the gas tax instead raise the sale tax on big cars with horrible MPG. Or I got an idea we tell Saudia Arabia pump more gas now or we go electric like Israel and Denmark are doing.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb.....147/AUTO02
are you bending over with laughter? or gas?
*g*
My suggestion for the gas tax holiday is to avoid Europe because the fall in the dollar. If the gas tax can afford it, maybe it could take its holiday at the Olympics in China.
BUT, it doesn’t come back to consumers in real, tangible ways that they recognize - like touch and feel in their lives.
40% of consumers want the Gax Tax Holiday. My brother, for one, who has had to give me his week-ends at our lake house because he can’t afford the tank of gas. If he can get one or two tanks back from this tax holiday, he’s very happy as it will give him two week-ends of enjoyment.
I know it goes to infrastructure…but when people who truly need a break think about a bridge or road repairs versus being able to get away after a grueling week of work….they want to get away.
And that’s why the Clinton plan is not totally panned by consumers. If it were, that 40% would be much much smaller.
These aren’t just your normal panderers
They are kick-ass, tough-talkin’
Kung Fu Panda-ers!
If Iran is attacked, gas will go through the roof.
Otherwise, it will be all inflated, until the Pukes “fix it” and McBush takes credit.
Or not.
Yep. that’s the part that gets my (pet) goat.
I mean, I’m tired of GOPnesses treating us like we’re stupid.
From what I’ve witnessed of Hillary over the last year, it tells me she believes the neocon bullshit that has been spewed for years now. The fact she said she can’t stand those who support Moveon.org was really the clincher. She’s pandering to the neocons and other Reagan Crazies (republicans & democrats alike), because that is where her mind is. She’s one of those people who is scared, so instead of fighting against the evil, she’s decided to join it.
LS, there you go again, making perfect sense.
Bush/Cheney are ALL ABOUT the oil. Getting it, selling it for high prices, driving up the price with their insanity of a “foreign policy”.
If any of these people had to feed themselves, which includes getting to and from the store, preparing and cooking a meal - alone, for a week they’d starve. No restaurants, burger joints *gag*, none of that crap.
I guess “elite” is going to replace “liberal” this time around.
Gimme a break.
Clears an elevator real fast.
heart medication because when that vacation ends, it’s gonna be a shock
I agree what happened to her?
Hillary believes by making the oil companies pay the gas tax all summer will result in the oil companies yelling, “Uncle”, as if their fingers are pulled back by her.
What will happen is these companies will go up on their prices to make up for it. George Bush & Dick Cheney’s secret energy policy has put Americans in a bind.
There was actually a good piece on ABC News about Clinton on the one hand portraying herself as working class and on the other being the darling of Wall Street. It pointed out that a big majority of Americans thought the gas tax holiday was a political ploy.
nothing happened. She’s always been that ambitious and will be happy to ride any horse that will carry her over the finish line first.
well considering that over this 15 week period, most people would get between 20-30 bucks savings (total), your not going to get away too far
Oh yes, it will be just in time for the election too! I know one thing, I won’t be wearing my flag pin. What I’d like to do is take a flag pin and smack it on the forehead of anyone who supported taking a Gas Tax Holiday! LOL
Here on the Big Isle, a huge catch-22 has evolved, most of the jobs are on the Kona side, and, the labor pool is on the other side of the Isle, 80 miles away, one way… Housing prices in Kona prevent the labor pool from living in Kona, but, now, the price of gas is drying up that source of labor… Not a pretty scenario…!
He who smelt it…?
A seldom mentioned point of the windfall tax on oil companies that Clinton proposes is that it doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of passing the Congress or surviving a Bush veto. So she can rail about this all she wants but it is all kabuki. But am I surprised.
I don’t know. I think it’s fear. For some reason, she and others like her think they have to be tough and act like a cowboy/cowgirl/WITH LARGE TESTICLES to get votes in this country. *shaking head* With her being the $100 million dollar woman, she’s thinking the neocon agenda has been profitable, so why ruin a good thing.
Natural Selection, Corporate T(r)eason, Executive Oil and the Iraq Oil Plot!!
It sure has taken a long time for the obvious to become, obvious!
Guess like the King and his corporate cohorts in colonial crime found out with the colonist, “mecantiling” nations/populations for resources and profit has some shortcomings…
Bush must have missed the history lesson!
It’s worth remembering that Congress already tried to increase taxes on oil companies. There were several efforts to renew the tax credits for renewables and to pay for that by repealing the tax breaks Congress gave them 3 years ago. The Republican Senate blocked that, and I don’t see anything that will convince Mitch McConnell not to block any attempt to pass an “excess profits tax,”(or Bush to veto it) even though both Dems would likely vote for that in isolation.
You wouldn’t believe all the muscle cars and big suv’s gassing it down the LA freeways.
Dudes….(and dudettes) What are they thinking?
let’s look at that stat;
imagine if they reduced the tax and then the price went up by that amount just two weeks after the tax was cut
you guessed it, everyone would say the price went up because the tax cut made it possible
I’ll tell you how to lower the price of gasoline in this country;
1) get the president to stop printing paper, nobody wants our money any more
2) create another lunar landing project for alternative fuel, that would serve a few purposes
a) it would revive our economy
b) create jobs
c) create investment
d) put the fear of lost revenue in the oil companies brain so they lower taxes
3) no american oil can be sold overseas, it will be sold here and nowhere else
4) since we will be developing alternative fuels there will be no reason to maintain the oil reserves, release those along with restricting foreigh sales of our petro
5) get the frig out of Iraq and let the Iraqis start producing their product
6) there are a ton more but these will do for now
Exactly. We’re at the mercy of the America-Haters: THE OIL/GAS INDUSTRY. It’s the suckiest Catch-22 of all time.
I like the idea of going after the Bush Regime for continuing to fill our nation’s oil reserve which is taking oil off the market for consumers to buy and is another reason why oil/gas prices are high.
Just an observation, m’dear. Just an observation.
15 % renewable resource requirement gutted from the recent energy bill by the Senate!! Action vs words?????
oh, the most important number i forgot
7) create hemp crops and prohibit the use of corn for alternative fuel
That honky dorry tax break shrub gave them for buying the smog machines
8) gas reclamation equiptment attached to rush limbaugh
Sha-Sha - read the Krugman bit above. A cut in the gas tax will not reduce the price of gas. It will be transferred into profit to the Gas Comapnies.
Krugman may be what Hillary is calling an “elitist Economist” but she loves him when he supports her version of the “universal” Health Care Plan.
Others have some doubts about whether the latter is really much different than Obama’s plan (or whether Obama’s plan is a more attainable “step” of the Clinton goal)…or whether either are feasible as long as the US economy is in thrall to military contractors (and the Middle East paranoia).
But the reality is that the Gas Companies have been pushing this repeal of the Gas Tax for decades now. It’s constantly been used by the Republicans to lure over Americans paying higher-and-higher fuel bills. Now anyone can tell you that the goal of these gas companies wasn’t to make gas cheaper for the public…they aren’t benevolent…if they were they’d shunt those massive profits into keeping the cost of gas lower.
No…they want that money…and will keep fuel expensive and continue to increase the price at the pump until the public really reduces gas consumption. They’ll keep doing this until their profit margins start to reverse.
“Perris for President!”
Agree on the gas tax “holiday” idea — most of cut will end up in Big Oil’s coffers. Clinton supporters will point out that she intends to fund the tax cut with windfall profit taxes on the oil companies.
But from what I know of econ, most of the $0.184 gas tax is paid by consumers, not the suppliers (who are taxed per gallon sold). Suppliers are able to pass along the bulk of this tax because demand for gas is inflexible (demand doesn’t drop much per $0.01 increase in gas prices), and the supply is constrained as well. So here’s my question: why would a windfall profits tax be any different? Wouldn’t the oil companies pass along the bulk of the tax to consumers in the form of higher gas prices?
I suspect the only way to decrease gas prices is through price controls, but the 70’s weren’t exactly a ringing endorsement of that strategy. I’m not convinced that high gas prices are a bad thing — short term pain, long term gain. Maybe the best solution would be an income-capped tax credit for mileage.
That’d run a small city right there…! ;-)
Maybe instead of a gas tax holiday we could limit the profit the oil companies collect to $1 this year and limit the pay of their CEO’s and board of directors to only 30 times what a minimum wage worker makes.
I wonder whether my idea or Hilary’s would save people more money?
oh, check out this utube of mccain flubbing his way past his statement that we attacked Iraq for oil
man, whoever is the nominee from the democrats is really gonna embarass this man in the debates
I would go so far as to say mccain will be the first candidate running from behind that will insist on fewer debates rather then more
I don’t remember where I heard it, maybe on the radio, but there was a story about those monster machines. This one young lady (or at least she sounded young) said, “I know it’s way more car than I need, but it makes me feel so safe.”
I noticed a lot of those kind of drivers, on their cells, not driving very safely. Hell of a price to pay for not being careful, I say.
A “closed system” where the exhaust pipe is in his mouth? Using hydrogen as fuel, Rush will have plenty of h2o to stay hydrated…….
How much of the price of gas is fixed to the weakening American dollar as opposed to supply and demand?
How much does gas cost in Venezuela and neighboring countries?
“Big Oil’s coffers. Clinton supporters will point out that she intends to fund the tax cut with windfall profit taxes on the oil companies.”
_______
Exactly how? That assumes she could quickly force legislation through Congress and have Bu’ush sign it, no?
Moreover, what’s to stop the sellers from raising prices at least partially (given the short duration here) to themselves keep some of the “savings”?
there is no supply and demand issue, the issue is controlled production
and lordy be, we are preventing the production of Iraqi oil
go figure
for the economists a question;
is there a way to make it illegal for american concerns to invest in petro futures?
if there is that needs to be done pronto
What I’ve never understood is how gas prices go up on gas that is already paid for and in the ground? Shouldn’t the price be for the next time the gas station buys more fuel?
http://money.cnn.com/pf/featur.....gasprices/
I heard Glenn Beck say today on the radio that Venezuelans pay @ 12-cents a gallon for gas. He said this price is ruining the economy there and it didn’t help that Hugo Chavez (or the government) took over the oil companies. What a crock of neocon crap that is.
Whenever the price of oil/gas is low, America’s economy prospers. It’s only been under the Bush Regime that the higher the gas/oil prices go, the better the stock market does! Feels like we’re being duped.
tom hanks is a democrat and endoses obama
not really
I am in business and as soon as my prices go up I price accodingly since I can’t replace my stock at the same price
you really have to plan ahead when you’re in business and I can’t blame them for raising price based on the next buy not the past buy
Hey,
When the price of a “boat run” of “lobster” goes up, all the prices go up. Even the pounded lobsters purchased days before, at a cheaper price!!
Does anyone know what TalkLeft said about this plan before Clinton endorsed it?
A layman’s stab: In a market, with demand fairly insensitive to price, the clearing price is set by the cost at the margin — in this case, what it costs to obtain the next unit of supply — and that sets the price for the total supply at that moment. In theory, it should also work in reverse, when marginal costs decline, but there is often some “stickiness” (a non-technical term) on the way down. This is just theory, and actual conditions seldom match the theory — but that’s the standard explanation.
I think Cheney, Kristol, Feith, et al, actually thought they could pull it off. They were so convinced that the US military, combined with trade policies, could accomplish what the Romans and British couldn’t. The writings of the neo-cons from the 90’s reflect their thinking. It appears they didn’t ignore history, they believed they had a better way. Even now that their empire building project has gone sour they still publicly call for “staying the course.” Their egos will never allow them to admit they got it all wrong.
Here’s a connection that got a little press but died a quick death. Murdoch came out with a statement seemingly supporting Clinton a while ago. Murdoch owns, via NewsCorp, “The Weekly Standard,” the standard bearer of neo-con thought. The Standard loses a million dollars a year (NYT article in 2006) but Murdoch has a hands off policy regarding the rag. What’s a million bucks when your political ideology is mouthpieced by Kristol, Barnes and the likes of Krauthammer? What would an ideologue like Murdoch be doing hitching on to Clinton?
it really has to be that way
here’s an example;
I can sell something based on what I have been promised I am going to pay, I price according to that, make my sales while the shipment is arriving, I pay on time
therefore everything I sell has to be based on the price I am about to pay not the price I payed
it’s also based on consumer expectations, if the consumer will buy at the higher price you raise prices, if the comsumer refuses then you have to keep the prices down
they catagorically did not think they could pull it off, they knew it would be a failure, they knew they would create middle east unrest they were told
they want unrest and the threat of war, they can steal the treasure of nations, they can steal the treasure of continents when there is war
no, they didn’t think they could pull it off
McCain will have an energy plan that will stop us from being dependent on the Middle East for oil. When?
Will his plan be anything like Bush’s Energy plan? The plan Darth fought to keep the corporate members of his planning board secret?
Come to think of it just what was Bush’s energy plan?
yes it does, I know first hand. Seafood business……..
Maybe oil will go the way of the housing bubble…everybody buys in…big pyramid scam…and then one day they find out it’s really worth 55 cents a barrel…those on top walk away really rich..Same ole sh*t…oil is here, money or not..more stuff that humans invent a value for…next water…next air…next maybe sand. My dogs don’t need no stinkin’ oil…they run on dog food….
Oh yeah….
I again call attention to the 0.0143% solution.
According to my Terminal operator friend, if he can find a load anymore, he is having problems locating an independent truck to haul it. When it costs $1900 to fuel your truck and it wasn’t that long ago the exact same run paid $1900 for mileage (which hasn’t increased nearly proportionally to fuel costs, of course!), these people are getting squeezed bad. They are parking them, letting them be repossessed. Check the used truck pages, you’re local…
As you may have guessed the big freight lines have “fuel discounts”, they are locked into a better price on fuel. Independent truckers will soon be just another historical relic that people fondly recall and you see only in old movies. Americana, don’t you know…
his plan will be as follows;
“a nuclear power plant in every community”
no kidding, that’s his plan
petro would be worthless right now if reagan did not rescind carters energy goals
FWIW, the NY Post endorsed Obama and Murdoch’s daughter held a fund-raiser for Obama.
Supply and demand, what a load of hogwash. There is no competition between the oil distributors (oil companies) nor the oil producers, to imply otherwise is pure Obama bullshit. The oil companies have no regard for any of us, only their profits. If that means breaking the country, tough shit for us. Unfortunately bush and his fellow repuglie thieves (back to Regean) have done nothing to to incent the country to find alternatives. I have a suggestion: nationalize the oil companies, tell the oil producers if they want to play they do it by our rules. Tell bush to pull his hand out of saudi friends asses, use the gas companies profits to fully fund research and production of alternate energy sources (especially solar thermal, new solar pv sources, build out a new energy grid, and tell nuclear (just another non-renewable energy source) and coal to fuck themselves. As far as Hillary’s gambit, when you have nothing left for food, a few bucks saved from the cost of gasoline to buy food each week can mean a lot. Pull your obama head out of your ass.
Are the big freight lines “organized”? If not, they should be.
I’m sure it actually is “worthless” in reality. They just create the “value”, and we buy it.
The gas tax holiday in terms of economics is very poor. But, of course, it isn’t about economics. It is about securing a short term political advantage. Hopefully, it will fail to attain that goal, but I wouldn’t bet on it.
I think jenna endorsed obama too
till her father told her she would be drafted if she didn’t flip
The oil boys are betting on the price of oil dropping. This is how alternative energy was killed after #2 oil embargoes decimated America. Now we are raped by our own corporate aristocrats enabled by the form of stored potential energy “gasoline” they have monopolized and now send our fellow citizens to die, to secure access to crude. Talk about corporate socialism!!!!
15 years to build a plant and get government approvals. Ok the GOP can shorten the approval process but McCain even if he steals two terms would be lucky to see the first plant light up at the end of his second term.
What do we do until then?
Ding, ding, ding.
My calculation has it “saving” me $15.75 a month for the short “holiday” short period, maybe.
The ACLU are tireless fighters…
we really need to prohibit foreign sales of our petro, those are national assets not private assets
oil produced here needs to be sold here and we need to just unload the reserves right now in anticipation of alternative fuel
and we need to find a method of prohibiting american concerns from investing in petro futures
those policies would lower the international price pronto
Snark?
they cost more then they save and nuclear power is not an option
but most people don’t know that and they will jump on the band wagon
What a deal for America????
sort of snark, I think I read something along those lines a few months ago
North slope crude is shipped to the Pacific Rim. As would be ANWR crude, no doubt.
John Kanzius……… the “Kanzius Effect” Does any here understand the implications of this man’s work as applied to energy needs?????
Exactly. It is just gambling, and we’re paying for “their” gambling addiction.
And, ANWAR oil wouldn’t come down the pipe until 2020.
daiken dugg this you might want to also.
Mytwo cents on the GAS TAX holiday is that it is just political gamesmanship and will do very little to help those on the bottom at all. Gee over the Summer you might save enough for ONE tank of gas at the expense of the money need to maintain the infrastructure that we all need and use! Can we afford to not do those things that must be done??? How many lives will be lost if we allow this to happen?? And we all know the big oil companies will pass on any windfall tax that befalls them! Sounds like a loose loose situation
!
and it would give us a grand total of 6 months of oil
Nationalize it.
Thanks Scarecrow, JamesJoyce, and Perris for explaining it for me! I didn’t understand it until the “lobstah” comment. LOL Just kidding.
Life Liberty and economic prosperity in the hands of oil speculators??
I know what Jefferson would say!!!!
it is nationalized, our petro is recognized as a national asset not private
petro companies lease the right to refine our oil but it is not theirs it’s ours
the president has the right to keep it in america
You Maineiacs, true Americans!!! lol…….
$0.184/gallon not put into my 17.1 gallon tank ~5 times a month? $15.732 a month. Happy Holiday!
You are joking? No, they specialize in hiring the inexperienced drivers out of those “Learn to Drive a Truck in Six Weeks” Universities. They end up owing part of their salary and making much smaller wages than people made back in the day.
There was a time when an independent trucker could make a fairly decent living. To make real money, one had be on the road all the time (literally). That changed when Frito Lays started hauling freight on their back hauls. Truckers quit eating Lay’s Potato Chips! JB Hunt really beat people up, too.
You have a point, unionize! They are all southern state incorporations, I bet. It would be a rough one. But a worthwhile battle. E mail me, I’ll fix it where you can get the story from the horse’s mouth. Many of my friends are former truckers and still involved in the industry.
Yes! Are we mature enough as a nation and society to realize as with life itself, energy is a common denominator, that when cost go up with no nexus to reality, the republic loses! The general welfare of this nation suffers!!!! Germany paid a dear price, as did other nations and millions of human being, for the German’s silence!!
“Kanzius Effect”……….. no takers? Sad!!
I have to say that implications of his work, if it is all upheld, are staggering. As his critics have suggested, these are the makings of a perpetual motion machine.
An arrogant expression of willful ignorance in keeping with the traditions of the Bush Administration.
Solar power harvested to operate radio frequency wave generators utilizing the “Kanzius Effect.” The harmonic resonance of the salt water molecule using radio frequency wave liberates hydrogen from ocean water. The hydrogen can then be used as fuel to drive mechanical steam driven electrical generators. With proper gearing, as with bicycles more speed with less energy!!! Using the two most abundant elements on this planet America can reduce per capita energy cost, via technological advancements, while also creating potable water!!!
What holds America back? “Corporate aristocrats” as forewarned by good old Thomas Jefferson!!!!!!
Our current phantom energy plan, “soak and choke,” has been brought to you, for the most part, by politicians, industry, and economists (the energy-aristocracy). To be sure, we consumers, at the bottom of the energy chain, have contributed to our situation. The primary difference between us and the energy-aristocracy, is that our buck passing is not a metaphor — we pay at the pump.
Almost two years ago, shortly after taking impeachment off the table, Nancy Pelosi also promised and has failed to deliver a comprehensive energy plan.
Oil companies have stolen billions of dollars by taking exorbitant windfall profits, by avoiding taxes, by acquiring reductions in or ignoring penalties for foul ups, …, by holding back fees and royalties.
Hillary Clinton has proposed all of energy, tax, …, and health plans/policies. Barack Obama presented his weaker versions of the same, only after her plans were made public.
I am sure everyone agrees that any comprehensive policy should eventually include every element in the chain — explorations, …, well heads, …, refineries, …, distribution, …, industrial and individual consumers, … engines, appliances, and manufactured goods, …, alternative sources. Further, time will be required to fully implement any plan(s). Usage habits must change. Equipment of all sorts, across the full spectrum of the chain, must be phased out and replaced.
Now, Hillary Clinton has proposed an additional short term plan directed at only a few elements of the chain. She intends to relieve the individual consumers and take the money from the suppliers who are reaping huge unearned profits and are already in arrears on old debts. I am not alone in believing that it has the potential for short term relief of the strangulation that is already affecting the bottom of the energy chain. Further, it is not difficult to see that the relief will extend beyond the individual energy consumers.
Critics (her opponents and the energy-aristocrats who have failed us) say this temporary plan rewards bad behavior and will wreak long term havoc. That might be true, if it were to become permanent, and we fail to deliver and implement long term, comprehensive policies and plans.
Who would be relieved? Individuals who must commute to work and school, who deliver goods and services, who must look for work or go for groceries, who planned for vacations, etc. The relief would extend (trickle down) to a great variety of the other ’small people’ who support these activities, and even to the the price of food on the table.
As expected, Obama and the Obamaniacs jumped on this to deflect attention from his shortcomings, failings, and fear of debating.
It is a perpetual energy producer which undercuts the entire market economy of oil!!!!!!!!!
America liberty lies in energy evolution!!!!!!!!!!!
Freedom from the automobile and the false economy predicated upon it. Easier said, than done I am afraid, we have sold our collective souls to the Internal Combustion Engine.
Natural Selection Corporate T(r)eason Executive Oil and the “Iraq Oil Plot.”
Viewing life through the porthole of instilled addictions by corporate design….. is eyeopening!!!
Wrong….. not the internal combustion engine, just the form of stored potential energy. Google hho fuels???
Americans are already adapting……
http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/.....7127A2E06/
Solar power harvested to operate radio frequency wave generators utilizing the “Kanzius Effect.” The harmonic resonance of the salt water molecule using radio frequency wave liberates hydrogen from ocean water. The hydrogen can then be used as fuel to drive mechanical steam driven electrical generators. With proper gearing, as with bicycles more speed with less energy!!! Using the two most abundant elements on this planet America can reduce per capita energy cost, via technological advancements,
you know what?
I just realized there is an elephant in the room and we all missed it;
WHERE ARE THOSE FRIGGIN CHENEY AND THE OIL INDUSTRY MINUTES?
man oh man oh man, we need those PRONTO
Cheney………. above the law. Does not have to comply with law. Writes his own law, under the color of law. The epitome of a “corpocratichypocritaristocrat!” Jefferson’s worst fear for the republic!
bush/cheney/fascists………….
Rep Jay Inslee! Give him a call and demand he get hold of those energy task force minutes!!!
Better to not add links to the energy conversion chain — each step sucks energy — at the moment you have captured useful energy, use it or ship it (grid).
If photovoltaic capture,
then ship.
If thermal capture,
then use as heat
OR
convert [eg., Stirling or other] and (use or ship).
Check it out… you can vote on this legislation and have your vote sent directly to your reps on Govit. Go Democracy!
Vote No Now: http://www.govit.com/S_2890/
How much did America spend today on just gasoline? 11.2 billion $$$$$
I do like the House is a Battery idea.
Update on this;
Krugman now says that he was against the “Gas Tax Hiliday” before he was for the “Gas Tax Holiday”.
IOW If Hillary’s for it…she’s right…and I “was” an “elitist economist”…but now I’m an economist for the guys who get grease under their fingernails and use Brylcreem!
Krugman Wants Retraction…or Maybe Extraction [Foot in Mouth]
Pavement. we have placed impervious ground cover over so much of our Country! We spill pollutants in the form of automotive lubricants all over the place and pollute our eco-sphere. How can you deny that the automobile, enabled by the Infernal Combustion Engine, has been the ruination of this Country and that now we must work to reverse the damage?
The big Corporations poured unlimited resources into preventing viable mass transportation in this Country. Give us heat reflecting pavement and lots of it, in it’s place! We have Airlines, but no real rail transportation. We are a true third world country in mass transit and have been for decades.
you read my mind. don’t we all want to know what went on in those meetings?
Transparency, not privilege. thank you.
Transferring “sun energy” into usable hydrogen from salt water! Who needs oil!
maybe Krugman needs a blog holiday?
sup gandhi :)
yup……… pretty dumb!!!
Makes to much sense. Instead KBR fries our own GI’s
I’ve seen that technique — good example — it’s also fun to work on that type of proj. — Passive Collection & Thermal Control really doable now — requires some life-style changes (not very severe) — though recall, Dennis Weaver (char. on old tv Gunsmoke) did a big spread a long time ago — been watching this energy prob. not get straightened out for decades — we should also be thinking “goodbye to the flush toilet”, etc.
(apologies to all for departure)
why the fuk u gotta pay these stools for a hair cut? wtf.
yes, i really enjoy how the various phsical systems interface.
Your comments bring to mind the other drawback to the “economic sense” of the gas tax holiday proposal: the embedded expenses…externalities.
First, the money not going into the highway fund means that some repairs will have to be further deferred on an already weakened highway infrastructure. What about the impact on the economy when road crews remain idle instead of working on highway repairs? That’s not going to do much to strengthen consumer confidence, that’s for sure.
Second, how much of a benefit will it be to save ~$50 in taxes when you have to pay for a new tire after blowing one out from hitting a pothole at 50+ MPH? Even without a failure of a tire, wheels can be knocked out of alignment, at a time when drivers need every advantage (including a properly tuned and aligned car) in order to control their fuel consumption. While it would be expected that a reasonable person would slow down to avoid known pitfalls, there will be a greater number of people driving on unknown roads during the summer period…it is vacation season, after all, and some are still planning to take trips.
Yeah, I agree, if you must burn fuel at the point of use, hydrogen is less problematic than hydrocarbons. But, the electricity is easier to ship, than hydrogen, especially since the web of end users is so dispersed. So, I’d rather plug-in vehicles (probs. w/ range & recharge being worked on).
my last words on this, else I should see if Mother Earth News has blog & move
sorry, I slipped into talkd mode
I agree that the concept of using drinkable water to dispose of compostable materials is entirely ludicrous, but for those who are limited in their access to a compostable toilet, there are products that most households can retrofit to use the graywater from the sink to assist in the flushing process, such as this one.
The goal would be to transfer sun energy into hydrogen fuel from salt water. Burn the hydrogen to run steam driven electric generators. Using mechanical gearing more energy can be created than initially utilized from the sun and transfered into hydrogen. The Sun’s energy is free!!! The capital costs of tech are not free. However once paid for, the energy is free and undercuts supply side markets. The electricity goes wherever the grid is.
Oil is a speculators game. When the sun fails to rise it will not matter!!
gas tax holiday is a joke!!! no beef at all! More junk and flat tires…..
:)
There are some fundamental laws of physics involved, e.g., conservation of energy.
Sorry, can never get more, else perpetual motion. Then there is friction to contend with … and, alas, enthalpy and entropy.
BULLSHIT!
I don’t know how I let that one slip by.
The nerve of Hillary R. Clinton ignoring those economists that so very successfully steered us through the Bushit years!
ooops — sorry — finger slip
meant wigwam @115
I understand the law of thermodynamic!!!! You are wrong………….
When was the last time you rode a bike with peddle power? [edited by mod]
[Mod Note; Spirited debate is encouraged, but please do not insult other commenters. Thank you.]
That entire column proves that you hate Hillary and are a misogynist.