Orson Scott Card is a great science fiction writer - and arguably a great author. I can’t stand his politics, but he once said something very wise about America at the turn of the century, which ran approximately as follows - that America is doomed because Americans have lost the will to be well led.
I first came to think he might have a point during the 2004 primaries, when Dean, daring to discuss America’s real problems - and daring to admit to real solutions (raising taxes, for example), was horribly punished both by the powers that be and by Democratic primary voters. Dean famously noted that capturing Saddam Hussein didn’t make America one bit safer - one of the many unspeakable truths that helped do in his candidacy.
This is America, in which Kerry, in the second debate was ambushed by a questioner who insisted that he say, directly and clearly, that he would never raise taxes. So this year the frontrunners have all played it safe, and kept their doses of truth and realism to a minimum.
Pierre Trudeau, the late great Canadian Prime Minister, once said to Canadians “I’m willing to give you anything you’re willing to pay for.”
I don’t, I simply do not, understand what is so hard for people to understand about this. While deficit financing, debt and trade deficits all have their place in national policy, you simply cannot forever live beyond your means without it all coming crashing down eventually. Debt rarely makes sense unless you are buying assets that will eventually lead to you having greater income in the future or which are improving assets which will increase at greater than the inflation rate.
That’s it. That’s all. It’s not rocket science, it’s not high economics, it’s just household budgeting and should be familiar to the vast majority of people.
But it’s not.
There’s an old saw that when an economist can’t explain something economically he resorts to bad sociology. But I was trained as a sociologist more than as an economist, so I’m going to flip to some moralistic sociology. Policies which encourage the moral degradation of a nation’s population are bad for the nation in the long term no matter how good they are in the short term. Credit’s a good thing - lack of access to credit strangles new growth and keeps the poor from improving their situation. When you look at new immigrant groups you find, for example, that what determines their success in their new nation is often their ability to access capital - and when you look at ethnic groups with problems (like American Blacks) you often find that lack of access to credit is a big problem.
But that’s investment credit - money used to open a business or make another investment in the future. Consumer credit is another thing entirely and it seems to have destroyed Americans’ sense that they must pay. Easy credit - pay nothing for a year, but get your fridge now - that sort of credit, has expanded far too much in the US. And it’s not just that such credit is encouraged, but that consumer credit is practically required. Try and travel in the US or Canada without a credit card, using cash, for example. Try and rent a car or book into a hotel. It’s practically impossible. From a nation whose motto might be “in God we Trust, all others pay cash” it has become a nation which says “show me the plastic, we don’t take legal tender”. What I’d like to see, in the blizzard of lawsuits in the US, is a suit which takes a major hotel chain to court for refusing to take cash - for insisting on plastic. I suspect it’s illegal.
To bring it back - many Americans expect to buy now, pay later and to revolve ever larger and larger amounts of debt - even to borrow against their assets (generally meaning their houses) for consumer spending. Such borrowing against assets for consumption should be understood by everyone with any sense as profoundly foolish and only to be engaged in if you are going to starve or go without a roof over your head if you don’t. It is destroying your seed to engage in gluttony. Yet many Americans do it every day and have all their lives.
So why should they be concerned that the US government is doing the same thing - that their state government is doing it and that the economy as a whole is doing it? They’ve been corrupted by easy credit.
There is a strong economic argument for easy credit. The more people spend, the more demand there is, the better the economy is. And if all boats are rising, then you can handle the increased debt servicing charges. But over the last thirty years all boats haven’t been rising - in fact for the middle and lower classes things have, most years, been slowly getting worse. Part of this is related to offshoring and outsourcing - borrowing money to buy things created outside of the US economy practically requires it.
But the bottom line is this - the electorate has been enfeebled and corrupted to the point where they refuse to listen to leaders who tell them truth and ask them to bite the bullet and make the hard choices now rather than the disastrous choices later.
Dean fell for a number of reasons, not all related to his message (in particular he was foolish enough to challenge the media barons while treating reporters with contempt, a deadly combination). But part of his fall was related to the simple fact that he talked about America’s real problems and wouldn’t rule out real solutions (like raising taxes). Clinton, with her gas tax rebate, has certainly learned the lesson, nor can I recall Obama talking about raising taxes.
There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch. Any nation whose population forgets that is in its twilight. There’s still a chance to turn the US around, and there are favourable signs that the US population is turning itself around (the huge surge in voter registration, for example, is promising.) But there are still too many US citizens who insist on being pandered and lied to. They refuse to be led well and as such they will be led badly. No leader can lead people where they refuse to go - no one can save you from yourself. First you have to want to be led, first you want to be saved - that’s the battle. The rest is hard work, but without that first step, the rest of the journey can never be taken.
Moralistic? Absolutely. Tripe? Alas no. Some things really are simple and really do boil down to very basic moral questions.
This is one of them. Make your choice. Do you want to be saved from yourselves? Are you clear America’s worst enemy is not bin Laden or China or Islamofascists, but America? Then demand your leaders, rather than pander and lie to you - lead you. You’ll be pleasantly surprised by the fact that many of them would actually like to try and solve real problems. As for the rest, you’ll soon be rid of them. If you want to be led well, soon the bad leaders will fade.
It’s your choice.
Login Here
Share This
Spotlight
So, Ian!
Indiana! Glad it’s almost over…
guam is over and it doesn’t count
Edit…”well led”…?
Old news…
Thank you for making this clear. We have some important decisions coming up.
that it doesn’t count or that he won guam?
we also need to be much more active and involved in the governing of our country. apathy has cost us much
Title…led not lead..
Terrific post, Ian.
Pogoesque.
Aiieeee … The Canucks are invading … *g*
((( Ian ))) Excellent as always !
makes a good pun, though
Card is an interesting fellow. A good writer, certainly, not a great one. A participant in the Church of the Latter Day Saints (in the service of who’s missions he drew much of his subject matter from) and an inveterate Libertarian where all reason and cogent thought seems to fly out the window.
He perplexes me too. But the idea of being well lead, well I think there’s truth there. Americans are happy to shovel in the pablum of prime time television and the MSM. The ideas they are given to digest are what they do spend energy and effort in passing out their system; so they are lead, after a fashion. The easy credit you speak of, they are certainly lead to that and dive in head first. But *well* lead, no. That would take work.
I think a more simple truth is just this, “America is lazy.”
i don’t know why it is, but we seem to have a need to emotionally identify with some person “bigger” than ourselves. and once we’ve done that, even recognizing that we’re being lied to seems to cause all kinds of defenses to kick in. it’s been easy to see in republicans over the last few years. i have a few in my family who still think (or need to believe) that president bush is a “good” man.
but now i see us (dems) doing it too.
freaks me out a bit, because there is no way we can demand our leaders stop lying to us if we can’t face the evidence that they are doing just that.
Okay it is a beautiful day and I’ve been sitting outside….
phonebanking to Kokomo and Mishawauka in Indiana and just finished a list to a lil area outside of Luisville right before the Derby (i’m nothing if not sensitive to local goings on)
Urgh, thanks for the catch.
Ian, in my opinion it all started back in the Carter Administration. When confronted with the Arab oil shocks, Carter put forth an energy bill that emphasized coal and nuclear, which understandably did not inspire people. The bill got destroyed in Congress, which felt it had to pass an energy bill of some kind and eventually produced what might be called a “rump” bill. It was the first time America backed down from an important challenge.
Tired out from Vietnam, Watergate, and the energy crisis, we elected Reagan who told everyone what they wanted to hear, that it was “Morning in America.” He also peddled the supply side nonsense that said we could get something for nothing. And instead of learning to live within our means, both in terms of money and energy, we went for hyperconsumption: SUVs, exurbia, everything over the top. We went for a military buildup that we financed with borrowing as we built up a fiscal deficit We went for consumer goods that were vendor financed by our trade partners as we built up a current account deficit. And we have yet to be willing to listen to any politician who will tell us it can’t go on forever.
I think he’s written a couple books that are great, and that’s all most authors are remembered for. But obviously this is a matter of opinion, unless he fades fast, it takes a couple hundred years to really know.
Old habits die hard. It’s hard to break a habit if there is no alternative to the addiction.
We really need folks to get involved but that is not easy. They would rather just be part of the whine brigade
Great post BTW.
Louisiville, that is
Total agreement. Don’t spend more than you take in. Inability to face the money reality permeates this culture. It is a breath of fresh air to hear Obama speak truth about the gas tax proposal. But I don’t hold out much hope for a cultural shift of the necessary magnitude.
Oh, the ‘Bigger’ idea is an interesting one as explored by Richard Wright in Native Son. And the Jeremiah Wright controversy is decidedly a fight against that ‘Bigger’. I wonder if all Wrights rail against the wrongs of the Biggers?
I think you’re right. I think it also has to do with the fact that by 1980 the majority of the electorate didn’t remember the Great Depression all that well, and those who did didn’t want another big struggle, having been through more than a few.
neither do I
Careful, Petro you just may in the event of a major domestic crisis…!
I have a soft spot for the Ender series, I must admit.
Consumer debt-to-income ratios have been rising pretty steadily during the entire post-WWII era. Financial market deregulation, into which Carter was the first to dip his baby toe, did accelerate it somewhat.
In truth, people borrow “because they can,” and will continue to do so “until they can’t.” Since the U.S. is too big to fail, it’ll go on borrowing and borrowing and borrowing and …
We need a major shift of attitude in this country and I try to look at the economic meltdown as a wakeup call for us to make some serious changes from what we do in our own households all the way up to the POTUS
I find them all over the place, honestly. Some are awful, but some are breathtaking.
The problem with Card as an author is that he is extraordinarily manipulative. He is always trying to take a fistful of your heart-strings and move you around. When it works, when you don’t really notice, his books can be emotionally wracking in the best way. When it fails, when it’s visible, it leaves me completely cold. No one likes it when they see how they’re being manipulated.
That question of lack of subtlety might be where he falls down most, but yet it has produced some amazing books.
We are a country of ostriches and lemmings that grow up on cartoons and war games and brainwashed in nationalism…spoon fed pablum by corporate-driven MSM…addicted to entertainment, and we call our men and women who lay their lives down “kids”…The country is addicted to fatty, artificial fast foods, big gas guzzling SUVs and unlimited spending on credit…
Only rude-awakening types of events seem to have any effect.
Ugh.
break is over. time to do a bit more phone work. catch you pups in a bit.
ate la (until then)
Yeah, I have an old chart somewhere. And yet, there definitely was a chance in ethos that went along with it. I don’t think it’s exactly chicken and egg, at one point a lot of businesses just wouldn’t accept credit.
seems like a bad dream you get from binging. what a hangover we’re having
Looks like the recession will be shallow, not a meltdown. (”Saucer-shaped” as they described the 1970 one, perhaps.) Too soon to be conclusive, but that’s what the current evidence suggests.
Well, I can pretty much pinpoint the credit thing - it was certainly after 1980. Even with both of us working and making $25-$30K between us, my husband and I did not qualify for a credit card. Once we could get one, though, the offers came thick and fast.
i thought the ender’s game and one of the others in that series (either speaker for the dead or xenocide?) was great (maybe the novella moreso - iirc, it was a long time ago). but everything else i read of his was, imo, crap.
It sometimes seems like a bad dream you just can’t seem to wake up from…
Yes, yes! Some capture a kind of magic — Speaker for the Dead — and others remind me of albums Dylan made just to fill out a record contract.
on a local level, it’s a meltdown (at least here) but I can’t speak for the nation as a whole. I hope it is as you say
I’m tending to think it’ll feel a lot worse than that, unless you’re near the top of the economy. Stirling talks about why.
We might indeed wish to be well led, but I fear we aren’t very intelligent as a nation in choosing wise leaders.
Yep, worse for consumer real incomes than would be typical in a recession. Continuing the rise of the profits share, relative to past economic performances.
If I had access to easily manipulable databases, I could run a comparison. But no more. Sigh.
Not so sure about that. I think it’s truer to say that people borrow for as long as other people let them “because they can,” and will continue to do so until other people refuse to lend to them at which point they can’t.
I’m not convinced that the USA is “too big to fail” either, my hunch is that the Chinese (and the others pumping money into the US) are between a rock and a hard place and will eventually decide that the hard place is better than being ground to pieces on the rock.
What does any of this have to do with Ashlee Simpson?
Or Britney Spears?
Or Paula Abdul?
If you’re going to write about what concerns Americans, Ian, stick to the fundamentals, please.
“Yeah, I have an old chart somewhere. And yet, there definitely was a chance in ethos that went along with it. I don’t think it’s exactly chicken and egg, at one point a lot of businesses just wouldn’t accept credit.”
Wouldn’t extend credit.
And it take a person from Canada to write this truth (althou Ian is not long out of the UK, I believe)? Where are the people in the US willing to be so blunt?
But the government has the advantage and the complicity of the Federal Reserve Bank in managing a fiat currency system. How would you describe this rather interesting relationship in terms of bad sociology?
I call it living in the Age of Stupid where most people prefer politicians who promise them simple, cheap solutions to complex, expensive problems even when they know those politicians are lying to them.
Les jeux sont fait.
Ian,
My favourite of Prime Minister Trudeau’s statements was: “The state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation.”
Blessed to be a sister Canuck,
Heather
And certainly timed well to be blamed on the incoming (Democratic) administration….
But John Kerry was an elitist. Surely it is better to sell your future to a man who you’d rather have a beer with (if he weren’t a dry drunk) than some guy who continually uses words you can’t understand. Why use a dictionary when you can vote fur a dummy, I always say.
Well no, unless Ds were in control before they were in control. But given how good Rs are at conveying message and how bad Ds are, perhaps people will believe it’s all the Ds’ fault!
“Alea iacta Est” :-) mind you Caesar won his wars both domestic and foreign which is more than can be said for the Cheney regime, who seem only to be able to win domestic fights.
How can you be wasting your time with such trivialities when we still don’t know the real reason why Baba Wawa went bwack.
-G
ian - since you are venturing into sociology today….. for the last few years i’ve felt as though we’re in the middle of zimbardo’s prison experiment or one of milgram’s studies - where external pressure (from authorities, from our culture…) all seems aligned encourage us to act in ways that our completely contrary to the values we claim to care about.
to be blunt, i really don’t know how to live in this society without taking advantage of workers who are exploited and without contributing to the destruction of our climate and ecology. under those circumstances, it’s hard not to feel alienated from nature and from humanity.
seems like a perfect set up to encourage either denial or someone who claims to have easy answers for us.
Well, consider the possibility that Cheney only intended to win an opportunity for Haliburton, Blackwater, and the major Oil companies to make just oodles of jing. By any measure, he has won many times over; and may he rot in hell for it!
LOL - reminds me, I’m going to watch Blazing Saddles tonight.
It seems to me there is another thing that Americans have gotten so used to that it has almost become a habit–that is bankruptcy. If you find you cannot pay later, you can always file bankruptcy and the unsecured debt goes away magically. Bank of America then gets to pay for your wardrobe and that new watch. You may or may not end up losing your house or your car, but you can do that if you’ve gotten in too deep. My question is, do nations file bankruptcy. I know that cities do and some have. But I don’t know how close we are as a nation to defaulting on our loan from China, Saudi Arabia, etc. etc. etc.?
Caesar needed to win both foreign and domestic, because he held power because of the loyalty of his legions. The Bush administration knows that failure in foreign wars will not cost him his power, the troops will not rebel, and the Senate will not vote him out of his command. (In Rome, of course, a commander might ignore the Senate, if his troops were loyal to him and not to Rome).
Better to rule in Hell, might be the appropriate phrase. They cast the die, but if they fail they still intend to be in charge of what’s left of the US and to be powerful and rich in relative terms.
we have a problem here. because even i think kerry is elitist.
not that i don’t wish he was president now, but i’m not going to use arguments i don’t believe.
I watch it once a year and laugh as if I have never seen it before. Enjoy !
Half of bankruptcies arise over medical debts.
Only the fights that are out of sight of the public. When they become public, he doesn’t do so well.
I wrote my congresscritter today, and sent this to Nancy also:
Yeah, Milgram and Zimbardo are perfect analogies. People are very plastic, and you can mostly get them to do what you want. My formulation is usually that about 80% of folks can be good people or bad people and it’s mostly a question of the environment they’re in and how they’re lead. Ask for the best from people and that’s what you often enough get. Not always, mind you, but more often than many think. (Carter may have said one thing, but many others were saying the opposite.)
As for the worst, or for people to just shop, well, you get that too.
Yes, we prefer the lies. But, to be fair, there’s a growth industry that’s been determined to spread lies about government and money for decades.
For 30 years, we’ve been lied to about tax cuts (”always good!”), supply side economics, the value of government investment in roads, science, healthcare, education (”government doesn’t do anything well!”)…..
In what may seem a tragic omen, the filly that Sen. Clinton bet would win the Kentucky Derby has been euthanized on the track after suffering two broken ankles.
-G
I certainly hope our current Congress won’t go along with this first-time-ever request to provide a Vice President with a security detail after he leaves office. Surely Darth has enough money to pay for his own.
Another good reason for a rump Congress to quickly impeach Cheney, post-November: emoluments of office are unavailable to the impeached!
mfi - if ian doesn’t mind, can you give us an update on sadr city and the bombing of the hospital? the latest post at gorilla’s guide is in arabic (or should we just wait for siun?).
Bankruptcy laws in the US have been quite slack for a long time, the recent tightening is against the US tradition. What has become more and more the case is the “too big to fail” - bankruptcy for regular folks is harder to get, while bailouts and subsidies flow to the rich. The removal of all responsibility from elites is, I think, a greater problem than general bankruptcy for ordinary folks. It’s not when people can go bankrupt that they are corrupted, but when they don’t need to because they are bailed out.
So, I went to the dictionary and I found out that ‘elite’ is generally a good thing. If you’re going to elect a leader, why the hell wouldn’t you want him to be zenith rather than nadir (I used the thesaurus, too ;-)
Go back and get a shitload of dimes.
-G
iirc, it was much higher than 80% if the experiment was designed to maximize compliance with authority.
Not at all. Also, mark, so glad to see you (so to speak) again.
i guess my ignorance is showing… appreciate the correction. i’ll go see if i can find a better/more accurate word.
Yikes, the poor horse. Yikes the poor Hill, pierced by the sharp spear of metaphor. If I were a betting man, I’d bet that costs her more votes than any Bosnian bufu she might have had.
Close to 95% if you really push it. But those were very controlled circumstances.
However the 80% figure (which is certainly not scientific) is based on my belief that about 10% of people really are basically good and have an internal fortitude to do what they believe is right when those around them are pushing them to do bad things.
About 10% of people are scum, and even if you treat them right and surround them with good folks, they’ll still act like scum.
The great mass of people will do whatever seems to be socially approved of, more or less. If that’s good, great, if not, that’s fine too.
Stuck-up?
From Webster’s:
revolution
2.a: a sudden, radical, or complete change
2.c: activity or movement designed to effect fundamental changes in the socioeconomic situation
“…to effect fundamental changes…”
“…fundamental…”
I’m a revolutionary.
IAN!!! You Rock.
IIRC, M Trudeau was Canadian PM for a good, long time.
Back to read.
So much for Republics and their “government should be run like a business” crock. And why so many Americans buy it is beyond me.
FunnyDiva
Privileged.
Boy is this true. It wasn’t 70 years ago that consumer credit was simply not available. And when it got started, the financial barons cheated with interest rates calculated using weird rules like the Rule of 78s, discount interest and other tricks. These were used for the purpose of cheating people, but also for the express purpose of defeating usury laws. People took to credit in a huge way after WWII but at least they were mostly buying durable goods, so the explanation that they were paying as they were using the product made some kind of sense. Then on to today, when the powers that be want us to consume today rather than defer gratification. Actually plenty of us do that, and most of us are doing really well.
The importance–I think–of both Milgram’s and Zimbardo’s experiments is not that people are plastic or that one can be manipulated, but that many of us are willing to cede power to authority (eg., are authoritarian personalities). We will obey without question. Or, even if we question, a little, obey.
An interesting thing about the Zimbardo experiment in particular (I think) is that even while people ACT in accordance to authority, they IDENTIFY with the victims of authority. I have shown the Zimbardo prison experiment tapes in a couple of classes I taught years ago. Not one of my students imaginatively put themselves in the place of the guards. They all identified with the prisoners. Interestingly, they hated how the ‘prisoners’ initially accepted their roles, and always the discussion would go to how students would “never do that.” I believe that this is an example of precisely how unconscious our culture is with how we identify and accept authority in our lives.
(Hello mfi. I hope all is well with you and your dear family).
Yeah, and many are caused by divorce and other things that are basically beyond our control, like job loss or downsizing which ended up in lower income. But sometimes it’s just because we wanted what we wanted now and didn’t want to wait. Like when our President wanted to go to war and didn’t want to raise taxes to pay for it or put it on the budget–and we the people did not stop him!
Caesar’s victories flooded Italy with slaves which undercut both Rome’s economy and republican culture. Similarly, Spain’s conquests in the New World and in Asia flooded the country with gold and silver which gutted the domestic economy because whatever Spain needed it could buy more cheaply elsewhere.
Both great victories and great defeats can have disastrous effects on countries and empires.
Ah, dangerous ground, slippery slope and all that rot, old boy. There was none more privileged than JFK and yet none more loved.
Nations do go bankrupt. Argentina?
It’s called reneging on their debts.
lol… well, given some of the things i’ve done and regret - i prefer not to divide people into the good and the scum and instead to think that most of us are capable of both evil and good. sorta the schindler model. but, like i said, i have a strong personal bias for that view so i can’t really say.
It is my firm conviction that the next several years are going to provide us all a very ‘interesting’ educational opportunity.
Our complacent comfort is about to be disturbed.
Without a fundamental rethinking of our ‘economic’ notions, which really are just a ‘game’ which supposedly adult minds cobbled together, mostly for the benefit of a relative few, whether it be America’s current 1% or, historically, the American populace as a whole, more or less, the current ‘game’ fails to take fundamental realities into consideration.
And that failing, as regards ‘consequence’ and ‘energy’ consequences in particular, is NOT, in any fashion as yet, even beginning to include the ever growing reality of environmental ‘limitations’ and the possible total collapse of the capacity of the environment to sustain those conditions necessary to human survival …
America has sold its produtive capacity for a pittance to enrich a short-sighted and fearful ‘elite’ who have no intention, whatsoever. of relinguishing ‘control’.
And as Ian has stated some days ago, both Obama and Clinton are, at best ‘centrist’ Democrats and NOT progressives. That said, I am convinced that neither will rise to the FDR-like status we so deperately need, until and unless we take them firmly by the hand and insist, brooking NO backsliding, that they do so …
I would go so far as to suggest that humankind’s tenure is on the line, and it matters very much, henceforth, what the USA does.
Should we continue waging war and general mayhem, we will become, absolutely, the worlds second largest problem.
Problem number One will be hunger …
If WE allow things to reach that state of affairs, then it will pretty effectively, be too late …
A lot is riding on the maturity of the American people. A sobering, if not depressing thought.
Another version would say that Roman & Spanish Empires were ruined by constant war making.
The really weird thing about bankruptcy is that when people come in to talk to me and my colleagues about it, one of the first questions is always “What will this do to my credit?” The answer is, of course, absolutely nothing. After the discharge gets to the client, the credit card issuers are right behind with new offers. If you have a job, credit is fine within a short time.
But why do people care? When you file, you keep most, if not all, of your stuff, and if you just hang on for a while, you can save enough money to buy replacements for whatever breaks. It doesn’t matter. People want that high FICO score. The world just doesn’t make sense to my depression-raised parents.
“The Government should be run like a business”
Ah. Who might the shareholder be?
And if a Government is not there to protect its citizens from the depredations of its businesses, then who is?
Interesting. I’ve generalized from them, and perhaps too far, but then sociologists (and such training as I have is mostly in sociology) tend to think that people are very plastic — not just in submission to authority, but in the way they take on socially approved roles.
Aah, mods! I meant no harm…! ;-)
Your depression raised parents probably remember the events that gave rise to the Glass-Steagall Act. This generation will not even remember the Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act that did away with most of those protections. More’s the pity.
Thanks Ian won’t be here much longer the current plan is to be back home in Irak sometime towards the end of next week. I’m only still here because it takes a bit longer to recover from doctors messing with your innards once you turn middle-aged and grumpy.
At present I’m working with Saba Ali, Fatima Jameel, and Omar on tonight’s updates. The strike was on a building used as a pilgrims rest stop very close to the hospital. (Contrary to what spokesliar central) Also contrary to what they say they didn’t just blow out all the windows. Walls inside the hospital have collapsed. A missile hit at least one of the genreators so everything shorted out. One of our team members works at that hospital and says that the ambulance drivers’ building is destroyed.
There’s a lot of fighting going on as I type this.
I think that even before Caesar slavery had almost completely destroyed Rome and Italy. By the time of Caesar all of Italy could raise about 5 legions, iirc, in the time of Scipio, you could raise 20 withing a couple days ride from Rome. The peasantry was pretty much all gone. That said, of course, Caesar’s conquests definitely did in what little Republican spirit was left.
Too much wealth too fast almost always destroys nations, just as it usually destroys individuals.
So was the British Empire, it was ruined by WW I & WW II.
no training in sociology here… but i have to agree. for example iirc, in milgram’s experiments when there was another person (not matter how lowly) who refused the authority figure’s instructions - that changed the entire dynamic and most people would then refuse to comply.
positive role models.
Mark, Erdla told me about it at M&C today, and, I posted on it today!
Why does this thing no longer have preview? We’ve a lot of coverage already both in Arabic and English. To take a look at how fast they got back into business you can go here:
Scenes From An Iraki Childhood Sadr City Hospital After The American Missile Strike May 3rd 2008
I believe that precisely because so many people unquestioningly accept authority in their lives is why our country has quietly become a fascist state. And why we don’t question that our press has become a propaganda machine.
(And why those of us who stand up are marginalized and seem like we’re paranoid kooks.)