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	<title>Comments on: Color of Change on Women&#8217;s Voices, Women&#8217;s Votes</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/01/color-of-change-on-womens-voices-womens-votes/</link>
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		<title>By: SebastianDangerfield</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/01/color-of-change-on-womens-voices-womens-votes/#comment-1421899</link>
		<dc:creator>SebastianDangerfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 15:05:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/01/color-of-change-on-womens-voices-womens-votes/#comment-1421899</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;There are really only two scenarios here:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(1)  WVWV is, or has become, really really bad at doing what they are supposed experts at doing — and what they are paid big dollars to do.  During this primary season, they have been screwing up a whole lot more than “timing”; they have been sending out anonymous robocalls in state after state — which anyone in the biz knows is prohibited in just about every state — giving out false and misleading information right in the thick of a hotly contested primary campaign season.   Not only that, they’ve been caught at it and promised that, nationally, they would stop doing it.  But they kept doing it.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(2)  WVWV has been hijacked during the primary season to do a black-bag job for the Clinton campaign in key states (like VA and NC, where WVWV broke the law and did so in a way that would inure to Clinton’s benefit).  To be sure, the only evidence for this is purely circumstantial, but there’s quite a bit of it (and don’t tell us that circumstantial evidence doesn’t count — I will refer you to the legions of prisoners in the U.S. who were convicted on such evidence).  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Either way, I don’t see any compelling reason to leap to WVWV’s defense because they’re “good people” and we’re going to need them in the future.  The former defense is weak and off the merits (plus it sounds exactly like Brian Williams’s defense of his friends the Propaganda Generals) and even if all that has happened here is egregious negligence, I don’t think wee “need” such rank incompetents doing our GOTV.  If they’re that bad at what they do, they need to get the hell out of the business, and progressive dollars should go to organizations that are competent at GOTV.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are really only two scenarios here:</p>
<p>(1)  WVWV is, or has become, really really bad at doing what they are supposed experts at doing — and what they are paid big dollars to do.  During this primary season, they have been screwing up a whole lot more than “timing”; they have been sending out anonymous robocalls in state after state — which anyone in the biz knows is prohibited in just about every state — giving out false and misleading information right in the thick of a hotly contested primary campaign season.   Not only that, they’ve been caught at it and promised that, nationally, they would stop doing it.  But they kept doing it.  </p>
<p>(2)  WVWV has been hijacked during the primary season to do a black-bag job for the Clinton campaign in key states (like VA and NC, where WVWV broke the law and did so in a way that would inure to Clinton’s benefit).  To be sure, the only evidence for this is purely circumstantial, but there’s quite a bit of it (and don’t tell us that circumstantial evidence doesn’t count — I will refer you to the legions of prisoners in the U.S. who were convicted on such evidence).  </p>
<p>Either way, I don’t see any compelling reason to leap to WVWV’s defense because they’re “good people” and we’re going to need them in the future.  The former defense is weak and off the merits (plus it sounds exactly like Brian Williams’s defense of his friends the Propaganda Generals) and even if all that has happened here is egregious negligence, I don’t think wee “need” such rank incompetents doing our GOTV.  If they’re that bad at what they do, they need to get the hell out of the business, and progressive dollars should go to organizations that are competent at GOTV.</p>
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		<title>By: Sara</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/01/color-of-change-on-womens-voices-womens-votes/#comment-1421265</link>
		<dc:creator>Sara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 04:29:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/01/color-of-change-on-womens-voices-womens-votes/#comment-1421265</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Jane, I was contacted by this group in 2004.  Their voter registeration drive was a total waste of money.  I say that having managed campaigns for over 25 years, all of which had a voter registeration component.  Rule one of any such drive is to know the local community so you can properly target, and use only volunteers or part time employees who have been well trained in the laws and processes of each state. In 2004 they didn’t know a thing about the election laws in Minnesota — and apparently they still have not learned the importance of that knowledge.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If they want to raise money to register single women, the best thing they could do would be to fund a committee in each state, give them the tools to plan a targeted campaign which can be done at very low cost, and let it play out.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You don’t do voter registration over the phone, certainly not impersonally with robo-calls.  Period.  You do it in a situation where you can hand someone a card to fill out, a pen, a place to write, and the person handing out the cards knows how to quickly scan them for errors before the new voter moves on — and then transports the cards to the Board of Elections in a very timely way.  The person offering registration should inspire a little confidence in a new voter, by being able to answer normal questions, such as where do I find my polling place — the most normal of all.  You can’t do that with robo-calls, you just bug people particularly if they are already registered.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I made my complaints clear in 2004, and in fact a number of local women candidates asked they to quit doing what they were doing.  They clearly thought up even more ways to screw up.  Just because they have a Progressive Board of Directors is no indication that they know anything about how to maximize effort in any local area.  For instance, my State Legislative District contains about 2/3rds of the University of Minnesota, where there are — lots of single women.  From one election to another, about 50% of them move from one address to another.  Student Population is at least 9000 votes around here, heavily DFL, and those of us who have done campaigns around here know the laws, and know how to get maximum number of cards filed using trained student volunteers to get the job done.  Women’s Voices Women’s Votes were not even aware that Minnesota had same day voter registeration at the polls on election day, and thus what information needed to be conveyed about using that provision of our law.  When the script they use says — you can’t vote if you aren’t registered — they are giving wrong information.  That is not a good idea, in fact it is a huge negative.  What the potential voter needs is knowledge about how to register on election day.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jane, I was contacted by this group in 2004.  Their voter registeration drive was a total waste of money.  I say that having managed campaigns for over 25 years, all of which had a voter registeration component.  Rule one of any such drive is to know the local community so you can properly target, and use only volunteers or part time employees who have been well trained in the laws and processes of each state. In 2004 they didn’t know a thing about the election laws in Minnesota — and apparently they still have not learned the importance of that knowledge.  </p>
<p>If they want to raise money to register single women, the best thing they could do would be to fund a committee in each state, give them the tools to plan a targeted campaign which can be done at very low cost, and let it play out.  </p>
<p>You don’t do voter registration over the phone, certainly not impersonally with robo-calls.  Period.  You do it in a situation where you can hand someone a card to fill out, a pen, a place to write, and the person handing out the cards knows how to quickly scan them for errors before the new voter moves on — and then transports the cards to the Board of Elections in a very timely way.  The person offering registration should inspire a little confidence in a new voter, by being able to answer normal questions, such as where do I find my polling place — the most normal of all.  You can’t do that with robo-calls, you just bug people particularly if they are already registered.  </p>
<p>I made my complaints clear in 2004, and in fact a number of local women candidates asked they to quit doing what they were doing.  They clearly thought up even more ways to screw up.  Just because they have a Progressive Board of Directors is no indication that they know anything about how to maximize effort in any local area.  For instance, my State Legislative District contains about 2/3rds of the University of Minnesota, where there are — lots of single women.  From one election to another, about 50% of them move from one address to another.  Student Population is at least 9000 votes around here, heavily DFL, and those of us who have done campaigns around here know the laws, and know how to get maximum number of cards filed using trained student volunteers to get the job done.  Women’s Voices Women’s Votes were not even aware that Minnesota had same day voter registeration at the polls on election day, and thus what information needed to be conveyed about using that provision of our law.  When the script they use says — you can’t vote if you aren’t registered — they are giving wrong information.  That is not a good idea, in fact it is a huge negative.  What the potential voter needs is knowledge about how to register on election day.</p>
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		<title>By: JTMinIA</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/01/color-of-change-on-womens-voices-womens-votes/#comment-1421264</link>
		<dc:creator>JTMinIA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 04:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/01/color-of-change-on-womens-voices-womens-votes/#comment-1421264</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Again, you are giving them way too much credit on the stupidity defense.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;When they are actually calling single women and providing accurate information on how to register, they obey the local and federal laws, including those concerning self-identification.  Even more, they use their real name (i.e., WVWV) instead of some BS cover.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The only way in which they seem to be living up to the stupidity defense is by thinking that no-one would trace the voter-suppression activity back to them.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, you are giving them way too much credit on the stupidity defense.</p>
<p>When they are actually calling single women and providing accurate information on how to register, they obey the local and federal laws, including those concerning self-identification.  Even more, they use their real name (i.e., WVWV) instead of some BS cover.</p>
<p>The only way in which they seem to be living up to the stupidity defense is by thinking that no-one would trace the voter-suppression activity back to them.</p>
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		<title>By: xargaw</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/01/color-of-change-on-womens-voices-womens-votes/#comment-1421263</link>
		<dc:creator>xargaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 04:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/01/color-of-change-on-womens-voices-womens-votes/#comment-1421263</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;They have been cited for violations in several states according The Institute for Southern Studies. Repeated mistakes raise the question if these were mistakes at all. You shouldn’t make the first call until you know the laws in the state your operating in. Some of the mailings they claimed to be sending may have never been sent. Why did they use a fictitious African American sounding name? Why are the principals listed Clinton contributors. These questions need answering.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They have been cited for violations in several states according The Institute for Southern Studies. Repeated mistakes raise the question if these were mistakes at all. You shouldn’t make the first call until you know the laws in the state your operating in. Some of the mailings they claimed to be sending may have never been sent. Why did they use a fictitious African American sounding name? Why are the principals listed Clinton contributors. These questions need answering.</p>
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		<title>By: JTMinIA</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/01/color-of-change-on-womens-voices-womens-votes/#comment-1421258</link>
		<dc:creator>JTMinIA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 03:32:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/01/color-of-change-on-womens-voices-womens-votes/#comment-1421258</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It’s even worse than that.  This group has a great track record of doing what they aimed to do.  They know how to get people to register and then vote.  And I’ve not seen a previous example of them breaking state and federal laws when working positively on the targeted group (i.e., single women).  So these five or six total screw-ups, all in states that are playing an important role in this primary, all having the net effect of suppressing votes by likely Obama supporters, stinks to high heaven.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;To win by increasing the number of people voting for you is democracy.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;To win by decreasing the number of people allowed to vote for your opponent is Rove.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It’s even worse than that.  This group has a great track record of doing what they aimed to do.  They know how to get people to register and then vote.  And I’ve not seen a previous example of them breaking state and federal laws when working positively on the targeted group (i.e., single women).  So these five or six total screw-ups, all in states that are playing an important role in this primary, all having the net effect of suppressing votes by likely Obama supporters, stinks to high heaven.</p>
<p>To win by increasing the number of people voting for you is democracy.</p>
<p>To win by decreasing the number of people allowed to vote for your opponent is Rove.</p>
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		<title>By: inventor</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/01/color-of-change-on-womens-voices-womens-votes/#comment-1421253</link>
		<dc:creator>inventor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 03:22:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/01/color-of-change-on-womens-voices-womens-votes/#comment-1421253</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;He’s doing the same thing Jane did.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He’s vouching for the character of the organization, not addressing the questions.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Repeatedly making the same mistakes after assurring authorities more than one that they would stop the illegal activity. All of which favored one candidate.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I could be all coincidental. It would be easier to believe if people would stop vouching for the character of the organization and start addressing the facts.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He’s doing the same thing Jane did.</p>
<p>He’s vouching for the character of the organization, not addressing the questions.</p>
<p>Repeatedly making the same mistakes after assurring authorities more than one that they would stop the illegal activity. All of which favored one candidate.</p>
<p>I could be all coincidental. It would be easier to believe if people would stop vouching for the character of the organization and start addressing the facts.</p>
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		<title>By: JTMinIA</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/01/color-of-change-on-womens-voices-womens-votes/#comment-1421237</link>
		<dc:creator>JTMinIA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 03:09:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/01/color-of-change-on-womens-voices-womens-votes/#comment-1421237</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Sorry, PJ, but they already admitted that they did it.  And then they played the same game as they did the last five times: “Oh, my, did the deadline already pass?  Oops.  Our bad.  And, oh my, did we actually call many people who (a) are already registered and (b) are black instead of unmarried and female?  Double oops.  And, golly, did we break state and federal laws when making these calls.  Mea cupla!  So verrryyy sorry.  We promise.  We won’t do it &lt;strike&gt;again&lt;/strike&gt; a seventh time.  Really.  Trust us.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, PJ, but they already admitted that they did it.  And then they played the same game as they did the last five times: “Oh, my, did the deadline already pass?  Oops.  Our bad.  And, oh my, did we actually call many people who (a) are already registered and (b) are black instead of unmarried and female?  Double oops.  And, golly, did we break state and federal laws when making these calls.  Mea cupla!  So verrryyy sorry.  We promise.  We won’t do it <strike>again</strike> a seventh time.  Really.  Trust us.</p>
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		<title>By: bobschacht</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/01/color-of-change-on-womens-voices-womens-votes/#comment-1421167</link>
		<dc:creator>bobschacht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 02:37:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/01/color-of-change-on-womens-voices-womens-votes/#comment-1421167</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Over at MyDD:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/1/20421/54447&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
by Glenn Smith, Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:58:54 PM HST&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bob in HI&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Over at MyDD:</p>
<blockquote><p>
<a href="http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/1/20421/54447" rel="nofollow">Voter Suppression and the WVWV Controversy</a><br />
by Glenn Smith, Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:58:54 PM HST</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Bob in HI</p>
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		<title>By: UtterDregs</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/01/color-of-change-on-womens-voices-womens-votes/#comment-1421100</link>
		<dc:creator>UtterDregs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 01:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/01/color-of-change-on-womens-voices-womens-votes/#comment-1421100</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Jane, I’m sorry - but they’vce done the same thing before and been called on it and promised to shape up, and here they are again. Same “oops” act, this time with “Lamont Williams.” It’s classic voter suppression.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So how to reconcile this with past “good” work?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Well.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What if there’s a WVWV inside the WVWV?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jane, I’m sorry &#8211; but they’vce done the same thing before and been called on it and promised to shape up, and here they are again. Same “oops” act, this time with “Lamont Williams.” It’s classic voter suppression.</p>
<p>So how to reconcile this with past “good” work?</p>
<p>Well.</p>
<p>What if there’s a WVWV inside the WVWV?</p>
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		<title>By: Telebro</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/01/color-of-change-on-womens-voices-womens-votes/#comment-1421094</link>
		<dc:creator>Telebro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 01:41:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/05/01/color-of-change-on-womens-voices-womens-votes/#comment-1421094</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I have a number of good liberal (or somewhat liberal) women friends that support Hillary.  When asked why, they usually have no real answer.  I think they supported Bill Clinton, but there support for Hillary seems to be mostly based on gender.  I absolutely understand the desire to see a woman elected, but that is not an adequate reason for support.  When I hear about an effort to register single women voters that uses a fictitious name just before a primary, then it appears as gender-based groups seeking to get a woman elected.  The fact that there are key persons in the organization connected to Hillary raise serious questions.  If this group is professional, why would it make such a mistake that had a great opportunity to suppress votes.  If Hillary had been an honorable candidate, it would be difficult to beleive she could be involved in such a tactic as this.  However, her campaign has beoome so negative, and so destructive for a Democratic victory in November, that I strongly suspect her involvement.  I think the evidence will show that this was an attempt to suppress African American voters.  These folks once supported her, but now that they support someone else, they are the enemy.  WVWV should pay big money to run adds in NC (and in any other state where suppression was done) to correct or apologize for their mistakes.  I hope they will be prosecuted for clearly illegal activity.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Telebro&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a number of good liberal (or somewhat liberal) women friends that support Hillary.  When asked why, they usually have no real answer.  I think they supported Bill Clinton, but there support for Hillary seems to be mostly based on gender.  I absolutely understand the desire to see a woman elected, but that is not an adequate reason for support.  When I hear about an effort to register single women voters that uses a fictitious name just before a primary, then it appears as gender-based groups seeking to get a woman elected.  The fact that there are key persons in the organization connected to Hillary raise serious questions.  If this group is professional, why would it make such a mistake that had a great opportunity to suppress votes.  If Hillary had been an honorable candidate, it would be difficult to beleive she could be involved in such a tactic as this.  However, her campaign has beoome so negative, and so destructive for a Democratic victory in November, that I strongly suspect her involvement.  I think the evidence will show that this was an attempt to suppress African American voters.  These folks once supported her, but now that they support someone else, they are the enemy.  WVWV should pay big money to run adds in NC (and in any other state where suppression was done) to correct or apologize for their mistakes.  I hope they will be prosecuted for clearly illegal activity.</p>
<p>Telebro</p>
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