I quote from Dosido up top. I have to say that this use of the old testament (and I know that ThingsComeUndone did not mean it quite in this way!) must be said to be un-Christian. I hope that we have gotten beyond the idea of an insecure, vengeful god. It has always rather bothered me that the ultra-Christian sects only seem to quote the worst parts of the OT. How can they claim to be Christian? Where are their flag pins? I could go on, but life is too short and the prospect of a life to come too unlikely

bobschacht #193

Unless you have seen God, your “belief” is just YOUR opinion, and one that goes way beyond any available objective evidence. The Pope’s belief is also just HIS opinion. My purpose is not to degrade your belief, but to be faithful to truth and accuracy. I’ve had metaphysical experiences of my own that cannot be explained by the hard sciences. It makes me an agnostic, rather than an atheist, and I presume you understand the difference.

But every one of these leaders of organized religion, whether liberal or right wing, are selling a mythology that goes way beyond what they can possible know, and they usually end up getting people killed over it. That is reality. So, I don’t really think it is OT here to make the larger point that, rather than deciding which of these false prophets we favor, we’d be better off if we would simply reject them all. If we confined ourselves to known objective reality, we would have much less reason to fight with each other. You know, like other species of mammals. The “lower” ones, lol. Truth is, none of us will know any details about God until we are all dead, if then. Have the patience to wait. I do.

That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. For you, it is just dogma. For others, they may not just be “parroting” something learned from something else, but reporting on their own experience. Just because you have not had the experiences that others have had does not give you the right to invalidate their (my) experiences, or to tell them (me) how to interpret their (my) own experiences. But that is O/T here.

Aloha,
Bob in HI

bobschacht#188

Wright was historically, socially, and linguistically accurate in everything he said, except the AIDS thing. Black people and their culture are not foreign to me.

As to “God people,” I am spiritual to the extent that I am awed by nature and life any time I am in the woods (I LIVE in the woods), and wonder how they came to be, and treat them with great respect and restraint because they are beyond my ability to re-create. But anytime anyone gets more specific than that about their religious beliefs, they are just making it up or parroting someone who was just making it up. There is no evidence for any of the detailed dogma that infers a deity of supernatural quality with specific ritualistic prescriptions.. NONE. The word for believing detailed supernatural scenarios without any evidence is SUPERSTITION. That is not a broad brush, my friend, that is simply refusing to go beyond what is knowable.

Or they’d be asking him, “Um, Jesus, just exactly who is this “disciple whom you loved” that we keep hearing about from this guy John?

Bob in HI

I think it would be a mistake for Obama only to change the subject. That, too, concedes the field to McMain’s Media. He has to say why the subject the MM keeps choosing is a false topic for Americans, and a cheap thrill for the MM.

This is exactly correct.

Bob in HI

You paint with a brush that is far too broad. I am one of the “God people”, unless you mean something very different from that than I do. You seem to base most of what you “know” about “God-people” on what you see on TV or read in other media. Unfortunately, its the batshit crazy and superstitious ones that get on the TV.

BTW, I do not consider Rev. Wright “batshit crazy.” He speaks with the voice of the Black Church, and if you actually listen to his whole sermons, you’ll find most of the soundbytes wanting. The media treats him as batshit crazy only because there are enough bigots left in this country to whoop and holler about it.

Bob in HI