This doublestandard is making my head explode.

Cloak it in religion, and it is above criticism, as long as it’s a white preacher or believer.

i am so verrrrry tired of this bullcaky

Amen, Jane!

BTW you so rawked on TV the other day. :)

It’s pretty freakin unfair, but I don’t know that Obama had any choice.

Yeah McCain should be forced to apologize to some Nuns! Catholic Church is “Great Whore” Whore is antiCatholic code for Nuns and Mary it ties them to the Whore of Babylon and Queen Jezebel.

i was having my car serviced today,and dimwit was on the teebee in the waiting room,BLAMING CONGRESS for the economys woes…ps the giantOIL COs repoted RECORD PROFITS again today….just shoot me already,yea my pastor is helpless

I like to pray to the baby Jesus there in the manger with his Einstein Developmental…I hadn’t assigned any particular race to him yet. I suppose he should look a little like ME…

I can’t view video at the office. Did Obama repudiate Hagee? Or Wright? And on a proofreader note I think “away” was used instead of “await” in the first sentence of the last graf.

yes Jane you SMOKED them………

hey Jane !

Media Matters has a McKept fact check site up -

McCain source

ummmm, handy ! pass the bbq sauce pls

yes McKept has a ring to it..i of course invented McGiggolo,which works well too”g”

He repudiated Wright.

Nobody has to repudiate what Hagee says. Apparently, there is nothing wrong with anything Hagee says (Mississippi getting whacked by Katrina was just collateral damage of that decision by New Orleans to have that gay pride parade, dontcha know) and in fact, actively seeking Hagee’s support is just fine and dandy, and straightalking, too.

Did someone say Chocolate Jesus?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1wfamPW3Eaw

He repudiated Wright.

Jeremiah Wright and his associate pastor have gotten death threats. Trinity United Church of Christ has gotten bomb threats. Journalists got the names of the ill and bereaved from church bulletins and called them – including one woman in a hospice - for comments. And now Obama has repudiated Wright. It’s a sad, sad day for Trinity Church. Sometimes it seems like God is the only one you can turn to…..

What dosido said. Jane you have a minor typo in your last paragraph me thinks – “I anxiously await” rather than “away”.

wow! so much info. I’ll have to spend some time there poking around. Of course it has our favorite huggy bear pic of McCain and Bush.

My second fave pic is one from the video of McCain at his 100 years appearance. The camera is behind him and as he is answering with his now famous response, the guy in the front row literally has his mouth hanging open.

Obama must in my estimation,not speak about Rev Wright,anymore,he needs to say he has endless other problems THE GOP,and DIMWIT,created,and cannot spend anymore precious time,on a subject that REALLY DOES NOT affect the country,or the world

John Hagee are you willing to face the test Elijah challenged the false Prophets with? Are you willing to face the same consequences?
If not then stop claiming to speak for the LORD!

Then Elijah said, “I am the only prophet of the LORD still left, but there are 450 prophets of Baal. Bring two bulls; let the prophets of Baal take one, kill it, cut it in pieces, and put it on the wood–but don’t light the fire. I will do the same with the other bull. Then let the prophets of Baal pray to their god, and I will pray to the LORD, and the god who answers by sending fire–he is God.”

The people shouted their approval.

Then Elijah said to the prophets of Baal. “Since there are so many of you, you take a bull and prepare it first. Pray to your god, but don’t set fire to the wood.”

They took the bull that was brought to them, prepared it, and prayed to Baal until noon. They shouted. “Answer us. Baal!” and kept dancing around the altar they had built. But no answer came.

At noon Elijah started making fun of them; “Pray louder! Hi is a god! Maybe he is day-dreaming or relieving himself, or perhaps he’s gone off on a trip! Or maybe he’s sleeping, and you’ve got to wake him up!” So the prophets prayed louder and cut themselves with knives and daggers, according to their ritual, until blood flowed. They kept on ranting and raving until the middle of the afternoon; but no answer came, not sound was heard.

Then Elijah said to the people, “Come closer to me.” and they all gathered around him. He set about repairing the altar of the LORD which had been torn down. He took twelve stones, one for each of the twelve tribes named for the sons of Jacob, the man to whom the LORD had given the name Israel With these stones he rebuilt the altar for the worship of the LORD. He dug a trench around it, large enough to hold about four gallons of water. Then he placed the wood on the altar, cut the bull in pieces, and laid it on the wood. He said, “Fill four jars with water and pour it on the offering and the wood.” They did so, and the said, “Do it again”–and they did. “Do it once more,” he said–and they did. The water ran down around the altar and filled the trench.

At the hour of the afternoon sacrifice the prophet Elijah approached the altar and prayed, “O LORD, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, prove now that you are the God of Israel. and that I am your servant and have done all this at your command. Answer me, LORD, answer me, so that this people will know that you, the LORD, are God and that you are bringing them back to yourself.”

The LORD sent fire down, and it burned up the sacrifice, the wood, and the stones, scorched the earth and dried up the water in the trench.

When the people saw this, they threw themselves on the ground and exclaimed. “The LORD is God; the LORD alone is God!”

Elijah ordered, “Seize the prophets of Baal; don’t let any of them get away!” The people seized them all, and Elijah led them down to Kishon Brook and killed them.

http://www.amazingchange.org/s….._profb.htm!

Oops my 17 is in reply to cbl2 at #10.

That is really sad. Death threats?

Fine. I anxiously away John Hagee’s statement about the Catholic Church being the “great whore” getting the same kind of treatment.

And many other aspects of Hagee’s Christian Zionism deserve similar attention, e.g., his immanentizing of the eschaton and his preaching that the Jews who fail to convert in the end deservedly get fried by the just and almighty God.

He repudiated Wright.

Then the title of the entire thread needs to be changed, because it says he repudiated Hagee.

i dont see how we will WRIGHT the TITANIC,the media is set on destroying us it seems

You missed the snark?

Jews who fail to convert in the end deservedly get fried by the just and almighty God.

Good Point McCain hates Jews also Can’t forget that!

digg it

The Wright/Obama relationship sounds to me like one wherein the protegee has outgrown the need for a mentor…

What about what Tancredo said about the Pope? That just disappeared without an apology or anything. That guy’s a total scumbag.

yeah, that’s confusing.

yup,JohnMcGiggolo,is a MISANTHROPE

Yeah, that confused me too, but I watched the clip, and he was repudiating comments made by Wright yesterday that (paraphrasing) give ammunition to people who traffic in hate, it isn’t the Wright he knows, and if Wright says that is just politics for Obama, he doesn’t know Obama very well.

Hmmm…watching that clip…I’m starting to wonder if Obama and Wright might have a “nod and wink” thing happening here. This is giving Obama a chance to put this whole to rest…hopefully.

Wright did wait to speak until after PA after all. Interesting…

i agree,WE HAVE endless GOP caused problems in front of us…i dont care about the trivia of life,and we need to say this often imo

As Chris Wallace so revealingly phrased it in his interview of Obama:

WALLACE: But did (Wright) ever say anything about America or about white racism that troubled you?

Too much cricism of America and of white racism being equivalent, of course.

thats the point,he DOESNT know him intimately,he is his pastor not his RASPUTIN

What about what Falwell said about the Prophet Mohammed and Islam or what Boykin said …or Robertson and Parsley?

jeepers.

And Tancredo is a scumbag among many others.

Unfortunately Obama’s pastor is the minister of the moment because of all the media appearances this weekend, and what started out being a moment of dialogue [and efforting bridging a gap, cred to Moyers] did spiral out of that into what Obama called Wright caricaturing himself at the NPC. It’s not been helpful to the Obama campaign, and as he noted, it disrespected both him and his campaign. I find myself agreeing.

It is frustrating that the press has sat on its hands over Hagee. Will Matt Taibbi’s forthcoming book [I linked last thread] be the catalyst to looking at this guy? We’ll see.

But we must demand of the press that analysis. Not because it’s “Fair and balanced” with the Obama-Wright coverage, but because it stands on its own as a demonstration of McCain’s judgment and character.

BREAKING…

Fox News reports that GOP maverick John McCain has introduced senate legislation designating November 7th as Jeremiah Luther King Day.

;)

while everyone was clutching their MIKOMOTOS (pearls you guys)

April 29, 2008

Pump prices lift Shell and BP to record £7.2bn

David Robertson
BP and Royal Dutch Shell have reported massive increases in profits for the first three months of this year on the back of rocketing petrol prices, which are expected to hit £5 a gallon today.

BP’s pre-tax profits rose 48 per cent in the first quarter to $6.6 billion (£3.3 billion) while Shell increased its profits 12 per cent to a record $7.8 billion (£3.9 billion).

The increase has been driven by the rising oil prices, which the companies have passed on to consumers in the form of higher petrol and diesel costs.

Isn’t it really all about the fact that Wright and Obama are black?

Jane has written some of the wittiest, snarkiest, powerful, wise and most hard-hitting words about the current state of American politics of anyone commenting on this in American media. But the first paragraph of this post has got to be the best quick takes on these hypocrites anyone has written or will write.

attack – Attack – ATTACK – ATTACK!!

Obama is black?

;)

He has now denounced, rejected and repudiated Wright’s comments. But has he renounced, rejected and repudiated dashikis?

uhm…………. yes

He changed it from the earlier title of Jeremiah Farrakhan Osama Day ? *g*

These two well-spoken and articulate gentlemen are playing the media for fools.

This whole episode enables Obama to step further away from the civil-rights-era leadership, showing himself to be of the “next generation.” Without having to speak ill of Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton, he reassures white working class voters that he is different by repudiating his own pastor.

Wink, nod.

Recall what Rachel Maddow reminded us of yesterday: Obama’s share of white working class Democratic voters went UP between the primaries in Ohio and Pennsylvania, while TradMed told us over and over that Wright would sink him among that group.

TradMed’s sorrowful concern trolling isn’t gaining traction among voters Obama needs to win the general election. In fact, the media is having very little influence on them at all.

707!

Everything is about them being black. It’s sorta stunning to listen to all the code words but they will use it until the bitter end. Racists are racists and they teach their children to be racists. We need to break the cycle.

SADLY, I started reading Jane’s wonderful post believing that it was actual text from an Obama statement…

Wouldn’t THAT be a refreshing change?!

Must have been the graphic, oh well. I hope he gets a pair enough to say it soon. Thanks for drawing up the outline for him, Jane.

Obama needs to not only “repudiate” Wright, but also “denounce” him.

Hillary Clinton said so in a debate, on a question about Farrakan. So that is now the standard (for Obama).

and UNKA NEWTIE was on the VIEW today praising HILLARY as the answer to ALL our prayers……yup be scared

On this matter, we are in abject agreeance. The Western mass media is populated by corporate whores who seek to create an unassailable double standard on behalf of and in benefit for their masters.
May the sacks of gold received for their posturing prove most difficult to carry as they flee the oncoming apocalypse of their own fatuous design.

In my fantasy parallel universe at this afternoon’s press conference, Obama repudiated the media.

The Democratic leadership is, as usual, mute. Why aren’t they out there slamming the Wright coverage and calling the Repubs out on it? Cowards.

((((( jacqrat )))))

How’ve you been ? Great idea for Barack to use Jane’s words to counter all this tripe.

4Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,[a]’ and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9″Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

http://www.biblegateway.com/pa…..version=31

Now THAT I would have paid money to see.

Freak waltz.

Nice.

Very good point.
Explains so much.

OT:

Polar bears: 1

W: 0

YAY!

That’s intriguing. Add to this interpretation Obama’s comment that questions about Wright were a “legitimate” issue.

I’m torn between thinking GOPers want to run against Hilary or that they consider her their candidate…

sorta o/t. go vote on the 15 Obamain30seconds finalists!

You know he is willing to listen to Congress and is open to anything. Except the halting of oil being pumped into the Strategic Oil Reserve. We must continue this in case of a terrorist attack on our Oil. The MBA Oil preznit wants to buy Oil at peak prices to store in the ground. No wonder he is at 23%.

Aren’t those ads great ! I looked at them all and voted. I actually could go with any of them.

Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

Secretary Condoleezza Rice stated during a press conference that “[w]hat we’re seeing here [in regards to the destruction of Lebanon and the Israeli attacks on Lebanon], in a sense, is the growing—the ‘birth pangs’—of a ‘New Middle East’ and whatever we do we [meaning the United States] have to be certain that we’re pushing forward to the New Middle East [and] not going back to the old one.”

http://globalresearch.ca/index…..8;aid=3882

My bold just who is the twisted person writing her speeches?

Maybe he’s thinking of a “terrorist attack” on “our” oil…in Iraq, if you know what I mean.

Bush needs to pump as much oil into the reserve as he can before he invades Iran.

Let’s all rejoice at yet another year of record oil company profits. We’ve done our part by keeping Bush and Cheney in office while we just keep on paying. Even in Bush dollars, it’s still lots of money. Keep smiling and remember: the Royal Wedding is just around the corner.

4Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,[a]’ and will deceive many.

Didn’t Bush claim he talks to God?

You know Jane, I think the media is going to give John McCain a pass until the democrats finally choose a candidate. MSNBC is spotlighting McCain’s “Healthcare plan” as we speak, so what does that tell you?

prolly Michael Gerson…

gag.

They were praising Obama until a few months ago. Until there’s a nominee, they’re interested in attacking the front running and puffing up the challenger. They’re against whatever we want.

These two well-spoken and articulate gentlemen are playing the media for fools.

interesting take.

and if you are correct – that wright is in on it and ok with it.

well, then obama may yet win my support.

A corrupt and complicit celebrity media, a win at all cost Republican Party, a vacuous and disengaged electorate, a timid, cowardly and fractuous Democratic Party, a politicized beauracracy and a voting system that has been gamed are setting the stage for a McCain victory in November. The corporate media and the Republican Party will not be neutered prior to November thus a McCain victory is all the more likely.

Does anyone believe his claims? It’s just Bush style pandering.

Remember when the question du jour was “is Obama black enough?” Seems like a long time ago.

Yes indeed all the ads are excellent and I too voted for all of them. MoveOn forevah!

Someone who attended lots of Bible study growing up, would be my guess.

You know Jane, I think the media is going to give John McCain a pass until the democrats finally choose a candidate he is inaugurated. MSNBC is spotlighting McCain’s “Healthcare plan” as we speak, so what does that tell you?

Fixed it for you.

Yes! Who will be the first to use the N word?

Black Jeebus on a stick.

Yes. I tried to view them with a jaded GOP eye frankly asking myself, how can I mock this ad, to see which one would stand that test.

I did like the zipper one. And this is your brain on hope one.

Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Yeah Trust your fellow man and lend him a hand. War should not be our first response to a problem.
Oh and it seems that Only Lefties Are Going to the Rapture!
Maybe me too If I’m Left enough and Good enough! Repent the time is now! The time to Repent is always Now!

I can’t blame reporters for covering this story- it’s HOT . Americans are talking about it. WE’RE all talking about it—-

As a story it beats the hell out of interviewing an accountant about the actual cost of Obama’s health care plan.

Actually I think he claimed that God talks to him

Too far down the page to matter, probably, but what the hey:

Why didn’t Obama, knowing that all the cable news networks were going live with this, not mention Hagee/McCain in his responses, or take it to the idiot journalists covering him?

Y’all, that’s today’s issue- not whether the media should be covering Hagee, Parsley, etc. They should, but they won’t until someone who has live coverage on national TV for over 40 minutes brings it up – in context.

What, you say, Obama had 40 minutes of live TV to mention it and didn’t? Ain’t nobody’s bad but his, then. Sorry.

(Don’t hate- I’m an Obama supporter, but am amazed at how he continues to squander the free, live publicity he has. This ain’t the first time it’s happened, either).

And it beats interviewing a mortician about the actual cost of McCain’s health care plan.

I don’t know I’D be interested in THAT one.

yes, and the rest of us are just jealous…

Every time Obama–or any other Democrat–is asked about Wright, he should simply answer the question as though its subject was Hagee.

This should work in blogs and their comments, too.

What does the plan entail? Enlisting?

This freak’s not going to win. Not in a hundred years.

The Hagee thing would make a great story as well- but there would have to be some reason to think that McBush actually believes any of the weird shit Hagee says…..In fact, there isn’t even reason to think that McBush believes any of the weird shit HE says.

If Bu’ush talked to God, the latter would need an interpreter fluent in Texperanto-on-quaaludes-goulash to make any sense out it.

You mean “excuse me? were you asking me about Rev. Hagee?”

I don’t think Obama needs to engage with the Hagee issue right now.

George has been deaf to God’s pleading for sanity and compassion. George is only listening to that fallen angel Cheney.

Gee whiz, if I needed help I might ask for it.

prolly Michael Gerson…

gag.
What kind of nut uses almost the exact same words as the Bible to Describe the End of Days to describe Condi’s middle east peace plans?
An honest but crazy man?
A Satanist who can’t wait for it to start?
A Satanist with a sense of humor (the end of days starts as Condi’s peace plan?)

The Bushies are very fundamentalist they can’t claim ignorance of the Bible when even we Lefties notice!

My mother buys books and video tapes from the good reverand Hagee. He’s a fuckin nut job.

Parphrasing Lewis Lapham, there are but two people in Bu’ushworld. It is a place wherein Bu’ush the Actor need only please Bu’ush the Audience.

That just scares me more!

This is so disgusting.

Dickwad Addington is yapping about how the Veep is a law unto his own and the shitheels like Matthews and Blitzer are chubbed up over Rev. Wright.

Calgon, take me away.

-G

Must go to some great ofter sermon buffets that Rev. Hagee.

-G

Naw, don’t even ask the question. Just answer, “What Hagee said about Catholics was vile and immoral. I can’t understand why McCain sought his endorsement.”

So I guess David Axelrod’s assignment for the next 2 months is to tread that very narrow path between “angry bombastic black minister” and “arugula”.

The thing is, if we just took the media out of the equation – and Obama just talked to real people – they’d all love him.

birth pangs ????

so does that make Madame Secretary the mucous plug ?!?!?

sorry, I’ll be over here

As long as the Republican/Media Complex is demanding that people denounce and repudiate their coreligionists, is it going to demand that Mitt Romney (who may be McCain’s pick for VP nominee) denounce and reject the fundamentalist Latter Day Saints cult in Texas, which officials have determined forced underage girls to have sex and babies?

OK, so the cult split off from the Latter Day Saints a century ago, and Romney presumably is not a member of the cult, nor is his leader Romney’s “spiritual advisor” as far as we know. But still, shouldn’t Romney demonstrate he has no connection with the cult or its practices?/s

You probably have all seen this, but I just saw it…Cheney officially flips finger at Congress:

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/….._0429.html

Don’t forget to read Matt Taibi on Hagee’s camp. Jesus Made me Puke

Huckabee is gonna get the VP nod. You just watch.

1Now when he saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2and he began to teach them saying:
3″Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.
10Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11″Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

http://www.biblegateway.com/pa…..version=31

Well, for one thing, HRC vs. BHO is a higher priority of news than Sen. McCain right now. There is no longer a primary fight in GOP land, so there isn’t anything to report. What is needed is for somebody to run an ad pointing out Hagee batshit craziness, and how eagerly McCain accepted his endorsement. It costs our side money, but it’s the only way.

ROTFLMAO!

Yeah- his congregation used to be larger- but he got ravenous one night and ate half of em.

Yes, especially as Hagee’s not an “issue”, and won’t be.

There’s only so much Obama can do about this. No direct allegation has been made about him — only about Wright — so there’s nothing really to rebut or counterrattack. The media have decided the Obama is guilty of some unnamed yet supposedly self-evident problem because of an association with Wright. They’re just trying to activate people’s prejudices. Obama took the high road in Philadelphia, and it was somewhat successful, and has taken the expedient path now; we’ll see if that’s successful. Much as I would like TeddyInSanFran to be right, Obama can’t win on this issue. That hardly means he can’t win the election.

Yep.

No. Republics only make demands of non-Republics.

OK, so someone should begin opposition research on any Southern Baptist wacko preachers who may have some crazy ideas. If there are any, shouldn’t Huckabee have to repudiate and denounce them?

I didn’t mean he shouldn’t be confronted I said I don’t think Obama need to do it right now.

LOL. I’d forgotten that one.

Yep – that’s why he was on TV giving Obama “advice” on Abrams’ show last night.

Obama had his Sister Soldout moment today.

Shamtastic.

-G

1″Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Sounds like you get blessed if your attacked on Fox News!

fyi – Mormon church has repudiated and distanced themselves from the FLDS 7 ways to sunday – they are not the same and it would be politically dangerous to conflate the two

p.s. – hope y’all have caught Sara’s reportage on the cult over at Orcinus -
have avoided any media coverage as we can all guess what they would do with such a sensational topic – but Sara’s got some excellent 4-1-1 on it

politically dangerous to conflate the two

For who?

That’s some BBQ! Huckabee grills up some nice squirrel bobs.

and I am bitter about it, too.

IOKIYAR

Right we can confront McCain and his hypocrisy for attacking Obama’s preacher!
If Obama’s Preacher is fair game then how come the MSM is quiet about this evil Dweed?
How come we have to push stories that if told would sell themselves?

Because we are “Underdog”!

Let’s review our albatrosses:

Obama – Wright, CWB
Clinton – Bill, sniper tales, CWF
McCain – Fright Night, Bush, Lobby Luvvies, CWOTT

Campaigning While Black
Campaigning While Femail
Campaigning While Older than Time

Not sure about Hagee’s religious affiliation, but apparently it doesn’t involve FASTING.

Oh FGS Female!

Wouldn’t Huck have repudiate and denounce himself?

Republics always get a pass from the MSM.

are they black? really, hadn’t noticed ;)
(snark off)

this certainly does seem to be the core problem …

They have a simple answer: Hagee is not McCain’s preacher, just someone who’s endorsed him. If you get into endorsements and contribtors, that gets you into Ayers or Rezko. See how this game works?

I can’t help but point out that THEY feel exactly the same way. Fuckin lilly livered liberal press.

CNN reports one of the polygamist teens is undergoing labor while under guard. things keep getting weirder….

This was the favorite story until Wright got in the way.

Actually, I don’t think they really feel that way. They just like to shout about it to keep the press in their place. It works.

already asked this on the previous thread…. but i missed obama’s statement (press conference?) and would like to watch or listen to it. c-span’s webpage says they will have it posted later. until then, does anyone know where i could find it now?

thanks.

was making the point LDS Church has done everything they can to distance themselves from the FLDS – anyone attempting to conflate the two would appear to be wrong, making a stretch and “picking on mormoms” – no bueno in the current media environment

The FDLS are scary and disgusting – read Sara’s work over at Dave’s place and go to the library and get Under The Banner of Heaven – or ask the librarian to order The Secret Lives of Saints – by Daphne Bramham

and yes, that pic over there of Rulon Jeffs and his ‘birthday present’ is one of the creepiest things I’ve ever seen online

TPM has it up :D

(sigh) I liked Rev. Wright’s speeches. I especially liked something he said yesterday when asked if those who don’t follow Jesus will go to heaven. (paraphrased, since I don’t know the bible as well).
He said something like:
“Jesus also said that He has other sheep that are not of this flock”

I bet Hagee with all his hatred of whores is big on Original Sin and Eve being the Temptress responsible for the fall of Man. I bet he has some Very Traditional ideas about a woman’s place in society we can look into later.
Catholics, Jews, probably Women he seems to hate anything different

Right-wing authoritarianism (RWA) is a psychological personality variable or “ideological attitude” found to a high degree in people who are authoritarian followers (Authoritarian leaders, on the other hand, tend to score highly in social dominance orientation.)(Source: Altemeyer, 1998)

Right-wing authoritarianism is defined as the co-existence of three attitudinal clusters in a person:

1. Authoritarian submission — a high degree of submission to the authorities who are perceived to be established and legitimate in the society in which one lives.
2. Authoritarian aggression — a general aggressiveness, directed against various persons, that is perceived to be sanctioned by established authorities.
3. Conventionalism — a high degree of adherence to the social conventions that are perceived to be endorsed by society and its established authorities. (Source: Altemeyer, 1996, Chapter 1)

The “RWA” trait is measured by an attitude scale creatively named the RWA scale. The first item on the scale goes, “Our country desperately needs a mighty leader who will do what has to be done to destroy the radical new ways and sinfulness that are ruining us.” Persons who strongly agree with this are showing a lot of authoritarian submission (”Our country desperately needs a mighty leader”), authoritarian aggression (”who will do what has to be done to destroy”), and conventionalism (”the radical new ways and sinfulness that are ruining us”).

The “right-wing” in right-wing authoritarianism does not refer to someone’s politics but to their personality. It means the person has a strong need to submit to those they consider the established authorities in society. Those authorities can have right-wing or left-wing political views. In North America, persons who score highly on the RWA scale tend to support conservative political parties when they take an interest in politics. But in the Soviet Union, high RWAs tended to support the Communist Party–which most people consider a very left-wing political movement. (Source: Altemeyer, 1996, Chapters 1 and 5) Another kind of personality, the “left-wing authoritarian,” submits to authorities who want to overthrow the established authorities. But (perhaps naturally) it is harder to find such people. (Source: Altemeyer, 1996, Chapter 9).
Contents

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R…..itarianism

He was asked a question about Muslims…

stoopid ass question and gracious and thoughtful answer, imho.

(course Hagee, Parsley, Robertson and the rest of their flock would not agree)

perfect – thank you!

SCREW Obama for repudiating Wright. He should have stood up, STOOD UP Goddamnit, because Wright speaks the truth and we all know it.

To quote a commenter @ Glenn:

Say what you will of Wright’s demeanor, his rhetoric, his style, his unapologetic nature. The one thing he’s doing is something that very few people are willing to do, and even fewer are given any sort of audience for: exposing problems.

I don’t care if you think he needs to be less “bombastic”, as he is often described, often by himself in reference to all the coverage he’s gotten. I don’t care if you think he’s outrageous. I’ve listened to the sermons, and the recent appearances in question, and found precious little that I found terribly ugly, racist, or un-American. He is doing something that we need to have done every so often: He’s forcing us to drink the water, and reminding us of the cancer in there.

Even if he was outrageous and inflammatory, I am personally tired of being coddled and lied to in soft tones. I want truth, no matter how painful it is. Even if I’m angry now, it’s better for me in the long run than if I consume the soothing tones of liars and politicians.

This is a discussion that needs to be had, yes, not for the reasons that McCain, the GOP, Hillary, the media, or even Obama might want. This is a discussion we need to have because we NEED to be made uncomfortable. We need to know what’s wrong out there, and if it takes a firebrand to be made a target of sound bites and outrage, so be it.

That Wikipedia entry should be our anti McCain commercial.

I did too!

I also liked that he responded to a question about patriotism (sigh). “I served in the military for six years. Does that make me patriotic?” He didn’t say that it did, but was really asking the audience to consider what it really meant…while sticking to Cheney in the process.

Obama seems to be letting the McMain Media drive his agenda with these statements. I think he just proved GOP that the GOP’s variant on Swift boating works. This won’t stop the MM, it won’t stop the GOP or Hillary. They’re succeeding in driving a wedge between Obama and one supporter who has a voice and a community he can bring to the polls and the marketplace. They won’t stop with Rev. Wright.

Stop apologizing for being attractive to many different Americans who are collectively disgusted with the priorities and incompetence of the Bush government. Read Glenzilla’s book and start combatively throwing the many accurate, ugly facts back in the face of those you oppose. You oppose them for good reason. Tell the electorate why, not just what you’d like to do in their place, or you’ll never get the chance to do that.

You want to take their power and use it not to enrich them, but in the interests of a broader spectrum of Americans. They won’t give up without a fight, or even after it’s over and you or Hillary have won the nomination and the presidency. Your presidency will have to contend with this for the duration; it’s what today’s GOP is, who they are, and what they do.

Hagee’s more of a new testament guy—-REVELATIONS is his strong suit—He can awe ya fer hours with stories about the beast an the great final battle and Jesus comin again and tribulation and all kinds of really neat shit.

As much as I agree with your sentiment — and the comment you reference– you and I aren’t running for POTUS.

He has no choice but to distance himself from Rev. Wright, no matter how sad a commentary that is on us as a nation.

Here’s the transcript of it that Hugh kindly linked to in the last thread from the NYT:

MODERATOR: Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh unto the father but through me.” Do you believe this? And do you think Islam is a way to salvation?

REVEREND WRIGHT: Jesus also said, “Other sheep have I who are not of this fold.”

Hell yes Obama distanced himself from Wright- He can’t be connected to a guy who claims that the US govt. created the AIDS virus to kill blacks- and as he tried to tamp down the problems- Wright took it upon hiself to inform the public about Obama’s views- suggesting that Obama really agrees with him but can’t say so cause he’s running for prez….

This Wright character is not a saint.

I disagree because I think the McMain Media has taken the Rev. Wright’s words and sentiment out of context. For good measure, they’ve also distorted the proper context – the racism, the class warfare, the disdain of the needs of the have nots in favor of the haves – of those remarks.

Moreover, Wright is merely a stalking horse, a trial run for a technique to dislodge Obama (or Clinton, they don’t care) from his supporters. They’ll do the same for any leader/supporter with a voice and a following. If they can’t find inconvenient words, they’ll make ‘em up. Swift Boating, in this election, will seem like a bygone era of civility.

Apparently the campaign has been working with Wright for some time tryin to get him to tone it down and to accept some PR assistance- but Wright turned them down….I suspect that there’s little love lost between the two camps at the moment.

The fact is the McMain Media are driving the agenda. Of course the MM, GOP and Hillary won’t stop. You’re leaving out one other element here, though: he’s also communicating to voters with a statement repudiating Wright.

It’s not “Swift Boating”, which was out-and-out libel that Kerry didn’t fight. This is just subjective, irrelevant bullshit, guilt by assocation, with the only charges and accusations being made about Wright, not Obama. There’s no way to fight it, and the only way out is to change the subject — talking about Hagee will only resuscitate the subject while not gaining any votes: people already know what fundamentalist freaks believe, and they are already either outraged, indifferent or approving.

Obama has to win an election. He can’t change a thoroughly corrupt media. That’s our job, and will take more than one election cycle.

bushco has so thoroughly fucked up its going to take a LOT of doing to right the country…. and dont know if congress has the will or the guts to do it jus sayin……

Wright drew a contrast between himself as a man of God and Obama as a politician. Such protestations ring hollow because now he is, unwittingly or not, making himself a political figure.

I think that’s a crock.

it seems to me rev right didnt start this fire… insanity on faux news began this current storm and the lamestream media is running full-bore with it

Id rather hear about Hillarys trip to the Factor with O L’iely.
How do you reconcile Hillarys appeal to women and womens issues with appearing on a show with a man who sexually harassed and dirty talked a fellow employee and had to pay millions to keep it out of court?

Nice post Jane. My only disagreement would be that Obama was “forced” into throwing Wright under the bus. He could have used the opportunity to talk about race in America.
Rev Wright does an excellent job of delineating between historical liberals and what has become known as progressives.
This interview with a priest (white) is more in line with what Obama should say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0wvQMqSzTM

At a minimum, millions of people understand what Wright is saying and agree with much of it. It goes without saying that he has a right to those opinions.
This country has a racial problem. It makes me laugh to watch the latest speeches by Wright just throw it up in the face of America. The style is all planned. If you saw him on Bill Moyers he projected a wholly different persona.
I hope Wright finds a platform that forces America to come to grips with the pervasive racism that still exists in America.

Dont you wonder what Hillary’s supporter told Wright when she invited him to speak?

FWIW, I thought Wright did a fine job on Moyers. He appeared very scholarly, kindly, and in alignment with the kind of change and reformation Obama pursues. I thought he helped the cause.

Yesterday, during the press conference, I thought most of what he said was ok, except for the AIDS thing, but thought his delivery was unnecessarily confrontational. Still, I thought it could have fit with Obama’s explanation that he was from an earlier generation which, with reason, harbors some bitterness.

I didn’t see the whole NAACP talk, but didn’t like what I heard. The mocking of JFK and LBJ, and the exaggeration of differences between black and white methods, along with the continued bitteness, would alienate people Obama needs.

I continue to support Obama continue to have confidence that he’ll pull through and win the nomination and election. For cynics, it should be remembered that he has a hell of a large committed following which comprises a major component of the Democratic Party and won’t like getting screwed.

In everything, we should help Obama raise this campaign above the level of traditional identity politics. His opponents (both Hillary and McCain) know that the easiest way to beat him is to frame him as “the Black Candidate”, a reductionist parody of what he is trying to achieve. We must not let them succeed. Identity politics needs to be part of the past that is changed and transcended.

Even in identity politics terms, Hillary has the advantage because there are more women than there are Blacks. She knows that arithmetic, and that’s why she’s dwelling on that reductionist framing.

Bob in HI

This election is certainly proving that some of the basest suspicions about our Country are true. It appears surely appears that we are destined for some sort of Neoconnery for the remainder of my life, whether it is through the auspices of a Republicon or a DLC approved candidate, either side is prepared to stop at nothing-NOTHING!!!-to thwart the will of the people. Mark my words, when the super delegates select Ms. Clinton, much to the delight of certain one note folks, it will be the end of the Democratic Party as it presently exists, for it will repudiate the very notion of democracy! I will be totally disgusted even if no one else is. 1968 was enough for me.

They tell me that there is no fool like an old fool & it is said I am both. Perhaps I have simply had this romanticized notion of democracy, something about the people. I am almost positive the classical definition never included “Super-Delegates”-all of whom may kiss my rosy red ass, incidentally. So much for working within the system.

hrc also knows she wont win without african american voters

Neither Barack Obama nor Hillary Clinton can win the presidency without a large number of the others’ supporters.

This IS a reality that seems to be missing from a lot of conversations.

It’s the McMain Media that is attempting to cast the Rev. Wright as a politician and as an emotional placeholder for Obama.

Wright is no more a politician than Jane Hamsher. He isn’t even an “activist”. He’s a citizen, concerned for the welfare of his flock and speaking out. You don’t have to agree with him, and he needn’t be correct, in everything he says. Compared to Hagee, he’s milquetoast. Compared to McCain, he’s more accurate. McCain can’t tell the difference – or deceptively conflates – Shia and Sunni. That’s somewhat more irresponsible than an Irishman confusing orange and green on St. Patty’s Day in Belfast.

Wright is a temporarily useful cudgel to beat Obama with, that uppity so-and-so who don’t know his place. This is the McCain Media stretching its wings, testing how high it can fly in service to its fighter jock. If it’s successful, then like McMain’s lobbyists-working-for-free, it will come calling after election day.

This charade is not about the problems that the Rev. Wright or Obama may jointly see, or how differently each would solve them. It’s about keeping the Village and its government gated and locked.

Perhaps, but I don’t thing they’ll ultimately toe the line and vote Democratic, given the kind of skullduggery she’s pulling to try to win. I’m a lifelong old white Democrat, and I don’t think I could swallow it.

and the acrimony that i read in the progressive blogs attacking both is disgusting…. how can either win over the other’s supporters? its vicious reading on some of the blogs…..

Christy…Your moral credentials are impeccable, with that background advising Rev Wright to STFU seems to advance the very cause of your moral highground.
Mr. Obama’s podium is for getting the best policy and president in the White House. This albatross issue is giving Neocons fodder and is damaging our cause. It is a distraction from the message of “Hope and Unity” that Mr. Obama is promoting.
The focus needs to be on the agendas: Stop the Iraq and Middle East war.

Which is why Scarecrow’s suggestion from the other day is so important:

Folks need to think about what THEIR candidate and supporters can do to heal the wounds rather than concentrating and whining about what the OTHER candidate and supporters need to do.

It’s not quite accurate to paint Wright as an innocent victim in all of this- he sought out media attention and got it- and then used the opportunity to deliver messages that he knew or should have known would be harmful to Obama…The media just let the tape roll.

Paul Begala brings up Hagee when Wolfie presses about Obama’s pastor.

Good on Begala today. He acknowledges his support of Clinton, yet calls foul on the media…and gets the Republican Sanchez sputtering.

Good demo of how to deal with this controversy if the media persist.

Sadly, there are many that would rather snipe at the ‘other’ dem candidate — not realizing that the real ‘other’ candidate is McCain.

All these “God people” are just superstitious and batshit crazy. Why must we pretend otherwise?

dont want to prolong the rev wright agony but i think the media jumped on this after prompting from faux’s insannity

I agree dakine, but I know you have to have noticed certain commentors appearing each morning over past few weeks and turning every topic into a means of expressing Hillary’s superiority. If you originally tried to discuss the issues non-adversarially, you were accused of being dishonorable and other things. I’m not asking for agreement, just an explanation. At one point I held both candidates in equal esteem.

I think it would be a mistake for Obama only to change the subject. That, too, concedes the field to McMain’s Media. He has to say why the subject the MM keeps choosing is a false topic for Americans, and a cheap thrill for the MM. It may distract from the day’s woes to watch “reality” shows or to laugh at contestants chosen because they lack the awareness that they can’t sing or dance or engage an audience. But people still worry about whether they can pay the food bill, the light bill, the doctor bill and the mortgage.

It’s a delicate balance. Obama has to remind the electorate what it’s seeking distraction from, but without harping on it. At the same time, he needs to remind them that many of their miseries and reduced prospects arise directly from Bush’s policies and incompetence. But his strongest message has to be about what he’d do about it.

He can’t sell that without the backstory. And he can’t tell us the backstory if he keeps apologizing when his message of hope raises up the disparate, the resentful, the put upon and the once prosperous, some of whom are angry and for good reason. He has to give them a credible message of hope, and a peaceful mechanism through which to express their frustration.

I don’t think many people can do that. I think Obama can.

Sorry, I’m just offering an explanation, not asking for one. My first entry into the food fight was in defense of a Scarecrow post.

Well, I’ve never been that much of a fan for either of the current Ds but keeping my eyes on the prize, recognize that BOTH of them are far superior to St John of McSame.

That is true and I guess Im delighted that my daughter who voted for Bush is very much for Obama. She is also active in politics for the first time.
thats good for me and not negative of Hillary.

“All these “God people” are just superstitious and batshit crazy. Why must we pretend otherwise?”

You paint with a brush that is far too broad. I am one of the “God people”, unless you mean something very different from that than I do. You seem to base most of what you “know” about “God-people” on what you see on TV or read in other media. Unfortunately, its the batshit crazy and superstitious ones that get on the TV.

BTW, I do not consider Rev. Wright “batshit crazy.” He speaks with the voice of the Black Church, and if you actually listen to his whole sermons, you’ll find most of the soundbytes wanting. The media treats him as batshit crazy only because there are enough bigots left in this country to whoop and holler about it.

Bob in HI

I think it would be a mistake for Obama only to change the subject. That, too, concedes the field to McMain’s Media. He has to say why the subject the MM keeps choosing is a false topic for Americans, and a cheap thrill for the MM.

This is exactly correct.

Bob in HI

This is more than just about left and right, but also about race. And it is above all about the hypocrisy of the political class and the media. For fuck’s sake, Jesus, himself, could walk among us, and someone would be out there asking him about his relationship, heh, heh, to Mary Magdalene; that is if he were the Governor of New York or a black male with a following. Perhaps it would do the nation well in this particular time and place to revisit the writing of James Baldwin–these issues how many decades gone? Organized religion, ach, and its discontents.

“Jesus, himself, could walk among us, and someone would be out there asking him about his relationship, heh, heh, to Mary Magdalene”

Or they’d be asking him, “Um, Jesus, just exactly who is this “disciple whom you loved” that we keep hearing about from this guy John?

Bob in HI

bobschacht#188

Wright was historically, socially, and linguistically accurate in everything he said, except the AIDS thing. Black people and their culture are not foreign to me.

As to “God people,” I am spiritual to the extent that I am awed by nature and life any time I am in the woods (I LIVE in the woods), and wonder how they came to be, and treat them with great respect and restraint because they are beyond my ability to re-create. But anytime anyone gets more specific than that about their religious beliefs, they are just making it up or parroting someone who was just making it up. There is no evidence for any of the detailed dogma that infers a deity of supernatural quality with specific ritualistic prescriptions.. NONE. The word for believing detailed supernatural scenarios without any evidence is SUPERSTITION. That is not a broad brush, my friend, that is simply refusing to go beyond what is knowable.

“…But anytime anyone gets more specific than that about their religious beliefs, they are just making it up or parroting someone who was just making it up. There is no evidence for any of the detailed dogma that infers a deity of supernatural quality with specific ritualistic prescriptions.. NONE. The word for believing detailed supernatural scenarios without any evidence is SUPERSTITION. That is not a broad brush, my friend, that is simply refusing to go beyond what is knowable.”

That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. For you, it is just dogma. For others, they may not just be “parroting” something learned from something else, but reporting on their own experience. Just because you have not had the experiences that others have had does not give you the right to invalidate their (my) experiences, or to tell them (me) how to interpret their (my) own experiences. But that is O/T here.

Aloha,
Bob in HI

bobschacht #193

Unless you have seen God, your “belief” is just YOUR opinion, and one that goes way beyond any available objective evidence. The Pope’s belief is also just HIS opinion. My purpose is not to degrade your belief, but to be faithful to truth and accuracy. I’ve had metaphysical experiences of my own that cannot be explained by the hard sciences. It makes me an agnostic, rather than an atheist, and I presume you understand the difference.

But every one of these leaders of organized religion, whether liberal or right wing, are selling a mythology that goes way beyond what they can possible know, and they usually end up getting people killed over it. That is reality. So, I don’t really think it is OT here to make the larger point that, rather than deciding which of these false prophets we favor, we’d be better off if we would simply reject them all. If we confined ourselves to known objective reality, we would have much less reason to fight with each other. You know, like other species of mammals. The “lower” ones, lol. Truth is, none of us will know any details about God until we are all dead, if then. Have the patience to wait. I do.

‘That is really sad. Death threats?’

I quote from Dosido up top. I have to say that this use of the old testament (and I know that ThingsComeUndone did not mean it quite in this way!) must be said to be un-Christian. I hope that we have gotten beyond the idea of an insecure, vengeful god. It has always rather bothered me that the ultra-Christian sects only seem to quote the worst parts of the OT. How can they claim to be Christian? Where are their flag pins? I could go on, but life is too short and the prospect of a life to come too unlikely

There is a difference and it’s more than a distinction. Today, Obama did the right thing and repudiated this fulminating demagogue. However, only a few weeks ago he was defending him and let us remember and never forget that he helped legitimize this full-bore racist manipulator by choosing to be a member of his church for 20 years.
Remember also that it was at the 1968 March on Washington, just before MLK’s great speech that Rabbi Prinz accused the American majority of the greatest sin of all, that of silence in the face of injustice. Silence from the pew amounts to the same thing whether its Father Coughlin or Hagee.