Good morning.

Thanks for this post, Scarecrow!

Interesting that allies are emerging in places we may not have expected. See my comments at the tail of last thread about Imus pushing back against Dobbs’ shut up, uppity Negro meme.

Good morning Scarecrow.

Please edit— Psalm 137 (not plural). then obliterate this comment :-)

MSNBC’s Morning Joe program is beating the drum on this story again. Mika Brezinski is pathetic in her coverage. By the way on the same show Mika gave little coverage to the fact that John McCain was using his wife’s private jet to campaign at the same time he was caling Obama an elitist.

O’Reilly can go FH.

Our media know these are preposterous lies. It they are responsible, they should condemn the lies and the liars. Such outrageous smears reveal how dishonest and unethical McCain and his party are, and thus how unqualified he and they are to hold the Presidency.

But they won’t. They are complicit in the whole scam. Few of them ever take the time to look at a whole picture. When they read they scan for gotchas. When they look at video they do the same thing. That, as they see it, is their job. They think it is up to us to do the interpretation and the analysis BASED ON WHAT THEY TELL US. Which, of course, is paltry gotchas.

They know what they are doing. It’s most of the viewing and reading public that hasn’t yet figured that out. But with the backlash against the ABC “debate” more and more folks are starting to wake up.

And the Moyers program was exceptional!

Dugggg :)

Rev. Wright’s interview on Moyers was very illuminating. Rather than painting him as a cartoon characture the way the corporate media has, he is revealed in the interview as compassionate, scholarly, soulful and wise.

Rev. Wright gives Mr. Obama more dimension.

I tuned in to Fox News last evening to see if they would be reporting excerpts from Obama’s appearance earlier. Imagine my surprise to see them reporting live and as breaking news, the entire speech made by Reverend Wright to the NAACP in Detroit. I didn’t listen to it all, but it was quite good. Apparently, Fox was waiting for him to say something they could jump on. After the speech, the anchor pointed out that he had referred to some of “us reporters as stuck-on stupid.” Now, isn’t he mean? /s

I was lucky enough to find a 4-part video of Rev Wright’s speech at the NAACP dinner last night just after it aired. Quite the learning experience for me. His remarks about learning and linguistics were an eye-opener for this supposedly educated white male. Later today I’ll be looking for an mp3 of the speech to add to the copies of his “controversial” speeches. It took the crowd quite a while to warm to the good Rev but by the end they were on their feet. The media and the GOP can go straight to hell in a handbasket, far as I’m concerned. If the truth is controversial then these bozos need to find something else to do. More like Rev Jeremiah Wright, please. Please.

Good Morning Scarecrow and everybody,

This morning Rev. Wright is giving a speech to a breakfast meeting of the National Press Club, it’ll be on CSPAN at 9am.

Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s Perspective

On Monday, the National Press Club hosts Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Sen. Barack Obama’s (D-IL) former pastor and religious mentor. Rev. Wright will discuss how the issues of social justice and global inequities have shaped his faith. His remarks will be followed by questions from the audience.

Nice post, scarecrow.

MrsK8 and I chatted about Psalm 137 about a year and a half ago at the end of a thread on the violence in the Left Behind video game that Jane had posted. The back and forth starts at comment 163.

I was out of town and off the tubes when the Wright story first came up, and by the time I got back the political conversation had more or less moved on, so I didn’t post on it then. Given how Wright is obviously not going away, I’ll likely have more on him myself later on.

I’ve met Wright on several occasions, worshiped at Trinity United Church of Christ, and heard him speak at a couple of clergy conferences. The Wright you saw on Moyers fit perfectly with the Wright I’ve met in person.

According to the CSPAN website, it will be on C-SPAN2 at 9 Eastern.

Yes ma’am. I wasn’t sure so followed the Bible link.

Daniel in the lions den?

Yep. He was the keynote speaker at our ministry days conference last year at our denominational convention. Very articulate and passionate man. I think much of the press has trouble with him because he’s very much smarter than they and they can’t admit that they can’t follow what he’s saying. So they mock it.

It’s the Book of Psalms but each individual one is a Psalm (think song).

Bill Moyers is just what NPR should be about. Cookey Roberts on the other hand is a white version of Malkin. The Rev Wright story is overblown, unneeded and surely damn all to do with who would make a “good” pres candidate. Elizabeth Edwards column in yesterday’s NYT was right on. We spend more time talking about things that don’t matter, have no bearing on who should or should not be pres. and only serve to sell trash as news for the corporate masters. Wright, to me, is just one more Rev. spouting his mouth to try and fill the coffers of his church just like the corporate news outlets are trying to fill their coffers. It is all bullshit.

Good analogy. We’ll see just how many real thinkers we have in the national press corpse. I’m betting close to zero.

Bill Maher owes Rev. Wright an apology. He called him a dick on Friday. I doubt he had seen the interview with Mr. Moyers.

That’s one piece of the story. The other is journalistic laziness.

What they did with Wright is as sloppy a job of journalism as mindlessly accepting the WH talking points on Valerie Plame, warrantless wiretapping, “enhanced interrogation techniques,” the firings of the US Attorneys, etc.

Gosh, does anyone else see a pattern here?

Do you know what he has done for the community he lives in? Some Christians are Christians.

Interesting. Was there a link to the Imus comment?

Always good to bet on a sure thing. One day the national press is yuking it up with Bush and doing dance numbers with Rove and the next they are at the throat of a learned and wise African American.

Wright, to me, is just one more Rev. spouting his mouth to try and fill the coffers of his church just like the corporate news outlets are trying to fill their coffers.

I’ve got a feeling that about 12,000 NAACP dinner attendees and his congregation would disagree with that assessment. As do I.

As usual, great post. I continue to admire Rev. Wright more and more. There have been literally hours and hours of character assassination against him by the racists Mika, Mornin Joe, and among the worst, Pat Buchanan.

These attacks are totally racist. The fake corporate journalists must justify their false narrative against Wright. It is time to change the narrative to the corporate corruption of a once free press.

If guilt by association is valid, then Racist Buchanan and Racist Drug Addled Rush Limbo, are sponsored by Racist corporations. We may choose not to purchase their products.

Excellent post, Scarecrow. Unfortunately, the media treatment of both Wright and Obama over the last few days has been extremely discouraging and brings mind another biblical quotation:

“Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.”

But it has nothing to do with elections for pres. Nothing.

It takes one to know one, but then again one of them isn’t a dick. Guess which one.

http://www.tucc.org/ministries.htm

FOX indeed did lead the pack on the smears, but they never would have took hold had the non-FOX media ignored them. The ABC non-debate was a total travesty.

Again what the heck does it have to do with pres. elections?

Good post, and I totally agree about Wright, and with the above comments about the media. But at the risk of being divisive, it wasn’t McCain who started the Jeremiah Wright hate frenzy.

Why not?

Like people give a shit about his community.

Exactly.

Let the record show that Bill Moyers is also an ordained minister.

Dick Gregory on Imus this morning — will look for link at WABC Radio and share as soon as it’s available. Meanwhile this links to the page where they post their interviews.

Dippin’ in and out this am, Scarecrow, Imus sometimes covers the same ground in his final hour, and WABC live-streams, so a techie pup may find it there again.

Wright described how even justifiable wars that begin with conventional attacks on the enemy’s soldiers can eventually degrade into wars against the innocent .

i listened to the entire 911 sermon (the day jerusalem fell) several times this weekend, and i don’t recall anything about justifiable wars..

i actually think he’s making a different point – about where our desire for revenge takes us.

hmmm… will listen again this morning. this sermon – and the confusing god and government sermon are, imo, worth many listens.

True dat. Though he was quick to take advantage of it.

Wright is a convenient way to get at Obama. But when you think about it, smearing a religious leader for preaching strongly against war, for reminding nations of hubris/jingoism is like attacking one of the moral foundations of all religions. The attack is against all religions.

And who is John McCain’s pastor?
Does McCain actually go to church?

Anyone who’s ever been the subject of a media report (local rag or national TV) knows inaccuracy is part of the game.

Anyone who’s ever played war knows civilians suffer the most. Hate to mix metaphors, but those caught in the middle end up sucking hind tit. Big time.

By the way, there is no God on this planet…only American Greed.

Gotcha!

Really? I did not know that. It would explain a lot.

Al Gore himself nearly became a preacher — he was a Divinity student at Vandy early on in his college career, IIRC.

Yup. It was revenge that got us into this mess.
Reverend Wright speaks the truth.

Some non christians are a damnsight more “christian” than some professed christians. So what does that have to do with the election for pres?

one of the things that disappoints me most is what people like larry johnson have been saying about wright. it’s bad enough to hear what the media and republicans have to say. but i really want clinton’s supporters to denounce the lies that are being told.

The presidential election is not the only thing happening in this country. Were it not for ABC trying to smear Obama the majority in this country would have never heard of the Rev Jeremiah Wright. ABC, probably to their great regret, made Rev Wright a national issue. And he has responded with intelligence and integrity. You might try listening to just these three speeches. Hopefully, they will help make me a better person. And it has nothing to do with religion.

Moyers is—believe it or not—a Southern Baptist minister. Though for obvious reasons, his idea of what a SB is differs greatly from what they have become since he was ordained.

intelligence and integrity

That’s a surefire loser in this raggedy-ass outfit.

For me this election is about speaking truth to power. Rev. Wright is showing us how to do this with grace and dignity.

For the record I am not a believer.

I listened to two speeches. The Moyers thing and the NAACP thingy. To me it is just one more preaching priest. As an atheist it means damn all to me.

Clinton’s supporters have been contributing to the feeding frenzy. That’s what desperate campaigns do and they demean themselves by doing it.

selise — that’s my reading of what the “revege” theme can mean; you’re right about the quote, so I need to edit that to be more accurate. Gimme a minute.. . . . It’s fixed.

So what does that have to do with the election for pres?

When a speaker — religious or otherwise — who is a close friend and advisor of one of the candidates for president addresses a major issue of the upcoming political campaign, that’s important.

When that speaker’s words get twisted, repackaged, and reforged into a racist weapon, that’s even more important.

When that repackaging gets swallowed whole by the media as the unvarnished truth, and they mindlessly repeat it without checking the facts, that’s still more important yet.

It’s not about religion — it’s about dirty politics and sloppy journalism.

Who is McCain’s pastor?

Well, there’s Dan Yeary, who is the pastor of the Baptist church that McCain has kinda-sorta attended for the last two decades; McCain attends, but hasn’t joined and is still an Episcopalian, not a Baptist.

Then there’s John Hagee, whose endorsement of McCain was actively sought by McCain.

yep – just listening again.

wright’s 911 sermon is not about justifiable war.

i think this is a very important point. because he speaks clearly and passionately of the insanity of the cycle of violence.

reverence to revenge
worship to war
paying tithes to paying back
hatred of armed enemies to the hatred of unarmed innocents

highly recommend the complete sermon.

yes. See the edit.

oo Thanks PW, that answers a lot of my questions about McCain’s churchiness.

If it were obama’s high school gym teacher that spoke up I do not think anyone would give a hoot but when it is a religionist that speaks somehow he/she is given more credibility.

Some of them have been, but then they’ve also stopped supporting Clinton. The African-American community saw how in September of 1998, the Clintons invited Wright and other pastors to the White House to be a sort of godly human shield between the Clintons and the imminent release of the Starr Report. Wright was there for the Clintons in their darkest hour, yet that didn’t stop them from backstabbing him. That is what is ticking off the black community, which as Donna Brazile pointed out still remembers how the Clintons abused Sister Souljah to score points with racist white voters.

It is dull and intellectually dishonest to lump all Christians into one category. Sort of like saying all Blacks are the same, or even all republicans. I consider Rev. Wright and Suzanne to be extraordinary people. Everyone has their own gift. They just have to try and find it.

sorry, i was listening….

Using Psalm 137, Wright described how the desire for revenge can change wars that begin with conventional attacks on the enemy’s soldiers can eventually degrade into wars against the innocent

still strongly disagree – it’s not about how revenge changes wars – it’s about what the desire for revenge does to us. he asks what our response should be, and his first answer is self examination.

It will be interesting to see (if) Clinton’s supporters back down from the shots they have been taking at Obama if/when Obama wins the nomination. Some have been pushing these things so hard, I don’t know if they can back down.

I find it especially interesting that while McCain calls himself a Baptist, Yeary’s tried to get McCain to drop his Episcopalianism and join Yeary’s Baptist church and McCain won’t do it.

To me, that looks very much like McCain wants to make conservative white voters think he’s one of them, yet can’t quite go whole hog.

Moyers is an American Baptist. A very different denomination than the Southern Baptist. Think Roger Williams, MLK.

If you only saw the clips on Moyers you’ve not heard either of the sermons in their entirety. Each clip was, at best, about one-fifth of the sermon. While the clips put the controversial comments in context, somewhat, they did not convey the totality of his message. Listen to both sermons in their entirety, then make your points. American Idol isn’t about the presidential election but is very popular with Americans I’m told. When a person speaks with such passion and truth I pay attention. I listen to the speeches of Dr Martin Luther King, Jr as well. They have nothing to do with the presidential election but they sure as hell have a great deal to do with the way I think and conduct myself.

three speeches.

i’ve only listened to two sermons. is there a third available? i could listen to wright all day long.

My first father-in-law was one. Well nigh Unitarian he was.

Ding.

It’s all about politics all of the time. It’s about how it “looks” not what it is. The more pious and faithful don’t have to pray in public or display their generosity for all to see. It ought to be a personal thing, yet it is now SOP. And the religious hucksters use them back.

Bah humbug on it all.

well, the smear isn’t working around here, farmer folk and ladies who don’t normally call in to the local show were going on and on about him over the weekend, in a good way……..many were very touched by him.

sent the links someone provided over the weekend to the show and the two sermons to the radio show, people were wanting them…..

didn’t read whole post yet, in a hurry, don’t know if these were included–someone posted them, sorry don’t remember who it was….

9/11 sermon
http://odeo.com/audio/17889043/view

god and government sermon
http://odeo.com/audio/17890793/view

so, all good here in se ohio about rev. wright…..

bbl

I’m counting last night’s speech as well. There is a 4-part video available. I’ll have to go back and find the site. To see his demonstrating the difference between the marching bands of Michigan and Florida A&M had me in stitches. The crowd was his at that point. Amazing speech.

Obama’s gym teacher would be just as much under discussion if the opposition portrayed the gym teacher as an avowed anti-American crackpot with whom Obama had chose to associate for 30 years. If the gym teacher then began to make speeches and the adversaires contorted the meaning in order to defeat Obama, it would be of concern. John Stewart boiled it down when he asked Obama whether, if were elected, he would “enslave white people.” That’s really the bullshit theme which is being played to voters by the MSM and others.

It’s pretty ironic, isn’t it? Baptists, even in the SBC, used to be all about finding one’s own path to God and having a horror of received wisdom. Now the SBC sets the tone, and the tone is goosestepping authoritarianism.

Good Morning

Last presidential election religion was manipulated and driven by hate (gay marriage.) This time it’s being distorted and used to destroy 2 men and a church, and demonize a race of people.

It’s just wrong.

Thanks for the report, dmac!

That is the kind of baptist church I was raised in. Avery Lee, the pastor, was against the Vietnam War. Walked the walk. Talked the talk.

Thanks much for the local feedback and the links.

yeah, he wasn’t willing to get all wet over it.

I stayed up dizzy with information and anger last night. I am going back to bed. See you all later.

Now you have really lost me. What does american idol have to do with anything? I have never seen it, or any other “reality” shows and I have intention of seeing them Just the same as I have no intention of seeing anymore of Wright. What he has to say is not of any importance to me. He speaks from a place that is frought with fiction and fantasy, not of importance. Now if Obama or clinton2 were to say something about any of the important issues facing this country well then I will listen.

I well know the difference. I went to a UCC/ABC seminary. Moyers went to Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary—a So. Baptist school. I heard him talk about it somewhere and I’m almost sure he said Southern Baptist and used the qualification about the direction they had taken not being his own.

the second response to 911 (after personal reflection) that wright advocates (as an alternative to revenge transformations i listed above) is:

social transformation – we have got to change the way we have been doing things. as a society, as a country and as an arrogant, militaristic, superpower.

instead of figuring out who we’re going to declare war on, maybe we need to declare war on racisms, in justice, greed,….

we can’t go on treating the rest of the world the way we’ve been treating them.

(just some quick notes to try and give a bit of the flavor or his message. please don’t take this as a replacement for listening to the whole thing)

Here’s what you posted yesterday:
t would be nice for Obama to turn the tables on Wallace and his neocon friends and show the country just what hypocritical racists they really are. I have little doubt that Rev Wright will be among the topics. By doing a little research I have no doubt that this whole thing was a hit job by ABC with absolutely no redeeming quality.

I’ve listened to both of the sermons ABC’s sound bites came from, in their entirety, and all I can say is that I’ve been heavily involved in the anti-war movement since early 2002 and I’d like to know why I hadn’t heard of this man until recently. Had he spoken to the half million on the mall those many years ago we just might be in a different place today.

I would encourage everyone to listen to these sermons, whether you define yourself as a Christian or not. I’m not, but the social justice implications contained in these sermons cannot be ignored. His words transcend any religious connotations.

http://odeo.com/audio/17889043/view

http://odeo.com/audio/17890793/view

The first link is the 9/11 sermon, the second is the god and government sermon.

Peace Love Light

I believe Jimmy Carter was also Southern Baptist and talked about his parting of ways with them.

try this.

Wright on CSpan 2 now.

That’s right. I met Mr. Moyers and his wife in Sonoma years ago. They have become good friends with my friends that own the b and b were they stayed. All texans.

There is a big split in the Southern Baptist denomination these days. Partially over the politicization of the church in recent years. IIRC, Jimmy Carter is a Southern Baptist.

thank you. i look forward to seeing that too.

Him too. Actually Carter officially disassociated himself from the So. Baptists.

I believe I owe you a Coke, Crosstimbers.

Mr. dunkin donut?

I stand by those comments. I was wrong about Obama/Wallace on Fox, though.

Now on to the Rev’s speech at the Press Club now CSPAN 1

I don’t have cable so I’ll have to pick it up on the web later today.

Wow!
what a reception

Lol. I don’t want to start controversy, but I’m a Dr. Pepper man.

The So. Baptists were taken over by the fundamentalist wing probably about 20 years ago. They have been struggling and fighting with the more liberal folks trying to regain hold, but it hasn’t worked. The fundies are pretty much firmly entrenched.

good morning, scarecrow. i have been horrified by those verses in that psalm for a long time, and didn’t understand how to look at them until i played the audio of Rev Wright’s sermon. He teaching brought tremendous understanding. He is a great teacher, on par with those i have studied with at (Adult Ed programs )Hebrew College and Harvard theologian.

try this SD,
http://www.c-span.org/watch/cs…..38;Code=CS

Yep, that’s the one. Thanks for saving me from searching for it again. Wonderful speech.

It started with a standing O. Cornell West was shown in the audience.

I’m a Pepper, too.

Mr Flunkin’ KnowNot!

“This unknown phenomenon of the black church”

Yeah, me too. Switched when I realized what fuckers the Coke people are.

so disappointing.

i don’t see how anyone could condemn wright without condemning mlk – seems, to me, very much in the tradition of mlk’s speech against the vietnam war.

and i don’t even share wright’s religious beliefs. and yet, many people who claim to share those beliefs condemn him.

Okay — everyone understand that CSPAN and CSPAN 2 now carrying Wright’s speech.

Thanks. Awwww, looks like I’m gonna be late for work. tsk tsk tsk

“Not an attack on Jeremiah Wright—it’s an attack on the Black Church”

when I realized what fuckers the Coke people are.

coke is the drink of the death squads

King’s speech against Vietnam got him killed. Everything was fine as long as he was seen as dividing instead of uniting.

CSPAN, not CSPAN2, is carrying Rev Wrights speech this morning. I loved that he received a very warm, welcoming, and extended standing ovation when introduced.

I, too, completely enjoyed Bill Moyers interview with Rev Wright.

always the trouble maker- ;)

i keep getting ‘Directory Listing Denied”

The vermin Hitler propaganda machine never once apologized for it’s complicity in it’s war against humanity…and neither will the Republican propaganda media.

“Those applause are not from the Washington Press Corps”

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cs…..8;Code=CS2

And Wright is himself getting death threats. I hope he’s taking them seriously.

Raven!!! Thank you! got it.

He’s a Marine, he knows the score.

Wright is on C-Span now speaking to the National Press Club.

Wright too is getting death threats, I hope he is taking them seriously.

Seeing SS people watching the audience . . . I guess he is.

And I’m tuned in to CSpan2 and watching it so it must be on both.

There is less than NO chance this kind of intelligent conversation is going to get covered properly.

Assassination is the right wings hail mary pass. They’ve capitalized on the assassination of every progressive voice in the 20th Century. Why would it be any different in the 21st Century.

We could have a contest to see which sound bite they take out of context to use to bash Obama.

If we wanted to. I’d rather just listen.

*sigh*
I wish you weren’t right.

King’s speech against Vietnam got him killed. Everything was fine as long as he was seen as dividing instead of uniting.

wouldn’t surprise me. if that is the case, then i worry about wright.

Learning styles, oh yea, Wolf will be on that like a duck on a june bug!

It is, alas the fate of the prophets. Happens every time it seems. Speaking real truth to real power is the most threatening thing there is. Therefore the threat/prophet must be eliminated.

I worry about every-frickin-body.

There is less than NO chance this kind of intelligent conversation is going to get covered properly.

we can make the attempt, at least for a start, right here.

Rev. Wright speaking now: “It is not an attack on Jeremiah Wright, it is an attack on the Black
Church.”

For the record this attack began as early as September 2007. Even then, The White House, and KKKarl Rove was calling Obama “lazy”.

I would encourage everyone to listen to these sermons, whether you define yourself as a Christian or not. I’m not, but the social justice implications contained in these sermons cannot be ignored. His words transcend any religious connotations.

Bingo!

If you don’t like Rev. Wright’s teachings, you probably wouldn’t have liked what Dr. King had to say in the 50’s and 60’s, either.

In fact, a Black man (African American gets to be too long when you type as slowly as I do) who lived in the sixties, there is, in fact no difference in how Dr. King was received then vs. how Rev. Wright is received now.

It was only in death that we began — as a nation — to appreciate his vision and commentaries on social (in)justice.

The choir don’t count but I hear ya.

Didn’t mean to suggest that you didn’t know the difference. Was for the “general” audience who may not know. I thought I heard Bill Moyers say on Friday’s interview with Rev. Wright that he, Moyers, was an American Baptist. If not mistaken he attends Riverside Baptist in NYC.

What a fantastic man. i hope he gets more and more public speaking spots

What’s so ironic is that his denomination, the UCC, is predominately a white denomination. It is the most liberal of the Christian churches, but even within it is a wide spectrum from liberal to conservative.

Wright’s problem is that he’s an intellectual and the right wing has done a fabulous job of demonizing intellectuals, and knowing that too many Americans can’t grasp what they’re saying, the right-wing media can easily redefine what they’re saying into simplistic but negative BS. The irony of that, of course, is that in doing so, they’re appealing to people’s deep anger and anxieties.

Circular insanity. White conservatives: We’re angry, so tell us what we want to hear to feed and confirm that anger, and then we can be angry about other people being angry.

Ugh.

You can get glimpses of his security detail at either end of the table when they pan around the room. What a sad commentary on our society.

The prophet is never recognized in their own village, town, city or country.

the rev is kicking deceit in the butt with truth………

He might be now, but that’s not how he started.

Wright is on fire now.

whoa – he tells it!

Secret Service or Waffen SS? /s *g* Probably private security.

Speaking real truth to real power is the most threatening thing there is.

and he’s doing it again – calling the warmongers out as chickenhawks (doesn’t use the word though).

wright is not pulling any punches… i love it!

How do we contribute to his church?

I do not recall the American Baptist part; he did mention Riverside in the conversation.

He avoids using ‘his’ when saying ‘God”

Interesting how he works subtly at not using male pronouns for God. Most of you probably aren’t noticing it, but those of us who have to navigate those waters do.

Isn’t that curious? Cspan is declining to show the webpage for the Wright broadcast.

Hey, Rev!

Bluetoe – see link at #120

Be part of the change you (we) call for.

“critical thinking” and tact!

That’s it, “critical thinking” and “paradigm” in one sentence. Where’s Paris Hilton?

Under W’s desk in the Oval Office.

http://www.tucc.org/contact.htm

yes, i noted that in the 2 sermons also. his analysis encompasses both race and gender. very, very inspiring. if we (the country) could listen to him we might just find a way past this the race/gender fight that many of clinton’s and obama’s supporters seem to want to have.

Hey Kath! we’re noticing the same thing at the same time.

UCC is in to inclusive language. They work at it as we do.

Amen.

Cspan coming in loud and clear as well as Rev Wright.

Ah, Now, question time. This should be interesting.

and also those of us who’ve wanted to run screaming from the church whenever god is described with male language.

Short and sweet. Standing O. Will be repeated on both TV and web.

i think it will be informative to listen to the call in section taking place now …

Here we go again. She asked about the sound bites and he asked if she had heard the whole sermon—no—well that nullifies the question. GREAT.

my cousins actually sought out a ucc church that still uses tradition (sexist) language. yuck.

at least it wasn’t easy for them.

The Qs are really moronic.

Go Rev!!!

The woman doing the question is . . . struggling for words.

Asked about being patriotic

“I served 6 years in the military. Does that make me patriotic? How many years did Cheney serve?”

some boos in the audience—from whom and for what?

Q – what did you mean by “chickens coming home to roost?”
A – did yuou hear the whole sermon?
No
Q – well that nullifies that quesstion.

I served 6 years in military -does that make me patriotic? how many years has Cheney served?

I don’t think these are her questions.

ah, CSPAN2 taking a different path. I wish I could listen to both.

Good Morning Scarecrow and Firedogs -

“i actually think he’s making a different point – about where our desire for revenge takes us.”

without hearing/reading Rev Wright’s full remarks sure sounds like he’s riffing off this guy -

“This way of settling differences is not just.” This business of burning human beings with napalm, of filling our nation’s homes with orphans and widows, of injecting poisonous drugs of hate into the veins of peoples normally humane, of sending men home from dark and bloody battlefields physically handicapped and psychologically deranged, cannot be reconciled with wisdom, justice, and love. A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death”

“We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. The oceans of history are made turbulent by the ever-rising tides of hate. And history is cluttered with the wreckage of nations and individuals that pursued this self-defeating path of hate.”

Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr
Riverside Baptist Church, April 1967

have wondered a lot of late just what in the hell the McRib cultists would do to that minister

Don’t you be talkin bout my momma!

They booed Cheney

Damn, they are hitting all of the stupid.

He’s answering them well, of course.

The fact that we have to even think about that kinda shit in this day and age is sad.

The boos are coming from the corporate media representatives in the peanut gallery.

During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.
— George Orwell

Don’t know how the press is going to report that though. Be warned and get ready.

I would think that the times haven’t changed all that much between Dr King’s remarks and Rev Wright’s. That they both approach the subject in much the same manner doesn’t mean he’s ripping anybody off.

Are the questions “crafted” from our vaunted press corps? The quality of these questions is representative of the quality of today’s “4th Estate”.

“It’s about policy, not the American people”.

Off to work. Sayonara.

Peace Love Light

riffing – as in expounding, amplifying

Where are these obnoxious questions coming from. Anyone catch that?

anonymous questions from the lazy press.

Richard Cohen & Sean Hannity are sitting together and composing the questions is my guess.

I repeat: the Qs are really moronic.

It’s truly insulting to be asking this man questions about Obama. All the questions are insulting.

She’s reading them.

Indeed they are. But this will not be reported that way so we will need to push back. Hard.

The theme of different is not deficient is what the speech last night to the NAACP was about. If you haven’t seen last night’s speech please make time to do so.
This is such an important issue for our society.
There’s a lot to talk about: gender, religion, race and bias.
Thank you Scarecrow and everyone.
We have a lot of work to do and I’m glad this is all finally on the table.
This might even be the thing that really tips the balance on the political race.
This just might be the issue that shows the true difference between the McCains of the world and truly thinking intelligent people.

Insulting questions from an insulting corporate media. It’s the GOP/Military,Industrial/Media complex.

he’s showing up these questions as stupid

i hate the questions.

and i love the answers.

wright is amazing. personally, for my own good, i’m glad the whole thing has blown up – because i wouldn’t be listening to wright now if it hadn’t.

Cheney wears a flag pin. Makes up for his lack of service; makes him supremely patriotic.

Enjoying Rev. Wright taking on the shallowness of the corporate media.

ditto, selise

There was link soliciting questions in the press release the National Press Club sent out to their members.

I’d really like to know who screened and chose the questions to ask.

That’s the point, what questions do people think they should ask?

Q – what do you think of Sen Clinton’s remarks after SC
A i am not here to speak about candidates and their remarks, i am here to speak of prophetic black theology

I do not have cable; thank you all so much for the coverage. It will be marvelously spirit-filled and irony if powerful good could come from this dust up. Hannity has been unrelenting about Rev. Wright + Ayres. Hateful and irrelevant. You all give me hope.

PS: Called my rep. about the Farm bill. Office did not know Rep’s position.

The whole controversy has been about stoopid, why would the questions be anything different?

It would be nice to have him answer questions from those who cared enough to attend.

“Other sheep have I that are not of this fold”.

Ed Schultz on his local morning show recounting the WHCA dinner and what a comic George Bush is and how people don’t see that side and the thought arises can this be the same guy whose administration is in all these shenanigans.

My take: precisely because he’s this kind o’guy with the inbred Washington press corps he gets a pass…much like we’re now seein’ with Johnny McMansions.

Yea, but that’s not what they do there.

Q – jesus said i am the only way – do you think Muslims ..(something)
A – Jesus said i have other sheep who are not of this fold

good point, MM

Everything that’s stupid, ignorant, and vacuous about our political discourse is contained in these questions. And they’re insulting.

so, who here thinks that’s all they will unleash on barak obama?

the republicans are waiting for the real election, the cycle after the primary, when they are sure it will be obama

they’ll wait a month or two, see how mccain is doing without the smear campaign they will unleash, but whether mccain is doing good or bad, come 6 months, 5 months, 4 months before the general election for the next president, they will unload a campaign that will shock us to our core.

it will be a good commercial too and they will pay nothing for it, it will go viral on the internet and then it will get free air time on all the stations, beginning with hannity and Limbaugh

obama will be up to the task, we have learned our lesson from kerry and move immediately against the attack and Obama has the resources to get something delivered within hours

but it will have it’s affect and the bigots that might have stayed home will instead go to the polls, the Conservatives that might have stayed home will go to the polls, the children of Conservatives who might have voted democrat will have second thoughts

our real hope here is that there are far more democratic voters far less willing to loose then any other time in our history

we see last election kerry actually won, bush was hardly hated with the passion he is hated today and the electorate while energized are energized for this election 10 fold

I have to wonder where these polls are coming from, how are they compiled, how is it possible to have a close race when we know how close it was last election when the republicans were less hated then this election

I have so many questions, so many contradictions going on in my head

for instance, I can’t believe there will even be elections, I can’t believe these despots and criminals have amassed this power to give to a Clinton, a women, a black man or all three

and I can’t believe they think they have a chance, when rove said last election, “but I know THE math”, what he meant was he had the fix in, he knew he would be able to prevent democrats from voting

what he didn’t know is voters he thought republican had become democrats, what he didn’t do is account for the thinkers in his party, so the fix was not quite the fix enough

they won’t make that mistake this cycle, this cycle there will be an overwhelming fix that the vast electorate voting against bush might not overcome

I have so many contradictions going on in my head and it’s morning and I just woke up and I have not orchestrated my thoughts

so forgive the incoherence this morning and let me say

GOOD MORNING FIREDOGS

that was perfect.

Do you think it is God’s Will that Obama become pres?

HOW STUPID CAN YOU GET?

how long do i allow attacks on my faith tradition? this is not about Obama – this is about attacks on my church.

Extremely.

I always assumed the questions were collected from the audience attending the event. I was wrong.

A brighter day comin’

Aaron Brown returning to the airwaves–on PBS Wide Angle

Tell quote: not knockin’ cable, but a lotta that is television, not journalism.

how is it that the moderator could ask those question and not want to crawl under the table in shame?

Last ? Chris Rock talking about 75 year old black men all being angry.

Wright—that’s just like the media. I’m not 75.

HOW STUPID CAN YOU GET?

stupid enough to vote for a republican, that is more stupid then that question

Q – Chris Rock said all 75 year old black men are angry
A – That’s just like the press – im not 75
laughter

She thanked the NPC library for “research.” Methinks she should have damned it for its “research.”

To show their gratitude, they gave him a mug…

Well, the National Press Club embarrassed us all today. I wonder if they know they embarrassed themselves.

me gotz us a fitz fix;

In the corruption trial of Chicago political fundraiser Antoin “Tony” Rezko last week, a federal witness alleged that “Rezko discussed efforts among top Republicans, including former White House political director Karl Rove and GOP national committeeman Robert Kjellander,” to have U.S. attorney Patrick Fitzgerald “fired to derail a corruption probe.” Now, according to Newsweek, the House Judiciary Committee “intends to investigate the facts and circumstances alleged in this testimony.”

that’s the morning lead at think progress right now

good question. She didn’t even give a disclaimer— as in “I didn’t make these questions up, they were handed to me”

The press really has no shame whatsoever.

i’d be likely to die from embarrassment.

LOL: How many do they think he needs? Unbelievable.

i’m contributing to his church in solidarity – thanks for the link above

I ask again, what the hell did you think they were going to ask him? His responses were elegant.

They give everyone who speaks to them a mug. This is their tradition.

I mug? I thought it was an attempted mugging.

Just so you all know, I’ve been watching Wright on CNN, so he’s on the mainstream channels, too.

I think it’s interesting that what he’s saying is very much like what we’ve all been saying for quite some time. No wonder it’s not well received by the press and the rest of the country. I’m not sure that Obama will overcome this, though, and for that, I feel very sorry. I hope he doesn’t regret sinking the first black candidate’s chances to become president because he feels personally insulted and assaulted. More importantly, I hope he doesn’t regret it because he has not sunk the first black candidate’s chances, that the candidate succeeds.

I’m listening, did she seem uncomfortable asking them?

The questions were a disgrace, the answers were given with grace imo.

i didn’t see any sign from her voice or face that she saw anything wrong with the questions. hope it was there and i missed it.

President Bush, a self-proclaimed Christian, had a predictably un-Christian response to 9/11 when he grabbed the bullhorn to boast that those who did this “will soon hear from us.” His approval ratings soared. Now they are as low as any President’s. Yet despite hundreds of thousands of Iraqi/Afghani/US deaths and millions displaced, and despite the catastrophic failure of Bush’s war policies, that initial response still defines American foreign policy and constrains our political discourse. It afflicts both parties.

there was nothing wrong with his verbal response, what was wrong is he had no intention of following his own lead

his intention was shock doctrine, his intention was Iran, their intention was continuous war and strife, unending middle east unrest

his intention was to grow the enemies against this country so the private suppliers of the military complex’s profits would soar

If they didn’t they should be. Wow, did that reveal how truly shallow the whole lot are. I’m gobsmacked.

link for contributions at #160 – our way of affirmation

If anyone has the ability to find the link and then pull together all the questions, verbatim, that would be helpful. We may want to do a post or two on how vacuous/insulting they were.

hmmm… from the comments here, i’m glad i chose to stay with the other channel and it’s call in platform. so far, all of the comments have been positive, and some have been extremely enlightening.

the more i learn about Rev Wright, the more i am bothered by the choice Obama has made in “condemning” the sound bites and distancing himself. clearly, the sound bites extracted from MSM were meant to incite. if Obama were the man/leader i desire, he would have made a less politically expedient choice regarding the Rev Wright witch hunt.

i know i know, he’s a politician … i guess i want more. i think this whole issue brings the “he’s another politician” more squarely into focus for me. what can i say … it’s disappointing.

The way that NPC handled Wright’s appearance is perfectly representative of the U.S. press: ignorant, prejudiced, and proud of it.

Christy has a great new post up and ready for any of us who are ready to move on to Health Care in America!

Sorry, my apologies.

attempted mugging.

attempted is right

i’d love to get more of his sermons / speeches / lectures…. wow. just wow.

in fact, she almost got snippy after he declined to answer a political question – “Well, then, here is a churhc question!”

agreed. I think she was clueless, which, in itself is embarrassing.

one can buy transcripts from c-span, i believe

Thank you Scarecrow.

How nice we could all watch it together in the midst of a discussion about it.

There’s a lot more to be said on this subject, to be sure.

she announced that for press club members the transcript would be free. For the rest of us peons we’ll have to pay.

I’m sure it will be rebroadcast. Let’s keep an eye on the CSpan schedule through the day and see when it will be on again. Then let everyone know.

no.

Ed Schultz commenting on how the WHCA dinner attendees were so rude while kids were being presented their honors. Prolly the same bunch.

Because it’s all about them.

oops…. got so involved with scarecrow’s post and wright on c-span, i forgot to finish the hearings list. scarecrow, i’ll post a link at the bottom of your thread when i’m done.

Republicans love profit. War is profitable.

Rev. Wright was vilified for stating the OBVIOUS!

We do not live in a civilized nation.

Absolutely!

Must read.

republic politicians sell law worth billions for a pocket full of change.

they aren’t in it for profit but power, they don’t understand profit but they do know they don’t want to loose their seat in power

I can’t find a link but there was a graph menu the kay street had for what law would cost how much and it was mind boggling how little the republics charged for law worth billions of middle class assets

mind boggling

You have hit on the core problem of the Wright “controversy” as it relates to Obama’s campaign, but not many can see it. It has nothing to do with anything Rev. Wright preached that day, but that is where the attention has been spun.

catching up on comments–am to the part where he’s taking questions, not watching, no cable, no high speed….

is anyone besides me a little ’amused’ that he’s speaking to the group that demonized him and other things too long to list–they’re probably in the room right now listening, and getting ready to ask him ’smart’ questions…national tv coverage,
and they’re too stupid to realize that he’s got them by the balls right now?????????

wonder who booked him…..

this is so ironic and so funny on so many levels….

bbl

My problem with Rev. Wright and Senator Obama is that they have both publically supported this: http://www.tucc.org/scholarshi…..system.pdf It’s the Black Value system. Please read with an open mind before you start screaming at me. Here is why I think it’s wrong:

Anyone who supports the Black Value System must “Pledge Allegiance to all Black Leadership Who Espouse and Embrace The Black Value System” and “Measure the Worth and Validity of All Activity in Terms of Positive Contributions to the General Welfare of the Black Community and the Advancement of Black People towards Freedom”. Should a president (or a person for that matter) pledge to support anyone who also takes this pledge? And, how can a President of the United States promise to make sure everything he does promotes the Black Community? For the whole, the Black Value System is a great idea, but those final 2 clauses I find personally reprehensible.

Call me a racist if you want, I know what is in my heart and you do not. I live in Florida’s 3rd District, and I have proudly supported and voted for Rep. Corrine Brown since 1992. Her motto, “Corrine Delivers” is totally true, and a better Congressperson you would be hard pressed to find. Although I do wish Ms. Brown would be a bit more vocal in her effort to allow the results of our state’s primary election to be heard and counted. But thats another issue.

Our President pledges to uphold the Constitution of the United States for ALL of the United States, not just one community. And in no way, shape, or form should they swear their personal allegiance to any one person or group of people.

If you see this, suggest you post it to the current thread, where more people will see it. Thanks.

And I edited the “revenge” reference again.

in his dreams maybe

OK, you’re a racist

Seconded!

As I recall, Obama’s opponent strongly criticised him for not bailing out of the church, and made it clear that she would have left at the first controversial pronouncement. Am I wrong? I would just as soon have left this as a conversation about Reverend Wright.

Brilliant post, Scarecrow.

i think you are seriously misreading the meaning. have you listened to wright’s sermons and seen the bill moyers interview and the npc event we just watched?

before you condemn, why not do at least that? and you could even write to the rev. and ask him what that means and why it bothers you?

i think it comes straight out of liberation theology (disclaimer – i haven’t read black liberation theology, but i have read some gutierrez) as far as i can tell, and in that context, i don’t find it at all offensive. on the contrary.

Let’s refrain from calling others racist, even if, as I suspect, you were using “literalist humor.”

No, you’re not wrong. Hillary’s exploiting this to try to win voters in order to win an election. I disagree with what she says (I’m sure she does as well), and I see it for what it is.

Hillary Clinton is irrelevant to this discussion.

And yes, it’s preferable to keep this in the context of what Rev. Wright said. That is the point of the original post here and mine. Keep the focus and controversy on Wright and off of Obama, who DID say he disagreed with Wright’s words, said had he been there he would have confronted Wright (which is a lie, since he also acknowledged that he’s heard such “incendiary” comments before but in fact has never approached Wright about them), etc. THAT is the issue. Wright isn’t running for office, Obama is. This isn’t about Wright or anything he preached, but to make it so works to avoid challenging Obama’s positions on this, so yes, you should want to keep it being about Wright.

Interesting that Wright himself said Obama was just being a politician with his speech. Rather contradicts Obama’s own message, doesn’t it?

At any rate, Clinton has nothing to do with this, and I’d be the first to tell her to get off it. It’s Obama’s supporters doing their usual thing of blindness to his hypocrisy and contradictions.

The problem with your link is that it has no source, nor does it indicate that Wright or Obama “signed” it, as you say. For all anyone knows, this was written by some nutty fringe group. Lacks cred without knowing its source.

Glad to hear that ordinary folk, unlike the freaks that populate the MSM, have a better grasp of reality.

I’m sorry, he or she said “go ahead”.

I don’t think the intent of Jaxparrothead’s post is racism, although without knowing where he got that link, it’s harder to tell. I think all he’s trying to say, rightly or wrongly (I’m not saying I agree with him!) is that the agenda here is about working on behalf of one segment of society when in fact the president is supposed to work on behalf of all citizens.

I happen to think Lieberman’s support of the Iraq war and going Repub on us is, again rightly or wrongly, about Israel, and I think his interest should be the welfare of the United States as to impact of that stupid war. Does that make me an anti-Semite? I don’t think so.

Good job of keeping Obama and Hillary out of it. LOL. You’ve stated your approval of Hillary’s willingess, as a fighter, to do whatever it takes. Obama is wrong for condemning, repudiating, rejecting, the soundbites while not repudiating Rev. Wright. Hillary is wrong, but commendable as a candidate, for condemning Obama and Rev. Wright and the horses they rode in on nothing but the MSM play. Nice argument.

ok, will do, but will wait until later in the thread to go OT. (the list is up now)

thanks for the edits – wright has such a powerful message, but it’s hard to put in a sound bite or a couple of sentences. as we’ve seen not even bill moyer’s clips were sufficient.

is it supposed to be encouraging, to deal with the reminders that there IS NO progressive choice candidate still in the running?

sometimes, i get the sense that Obama supporters would have me/us think otherwise. i can appreciate why Obama supporters (and his campaign) like to try and intimate that he represents something different … this “controversy” reminds me there is less difference than i desire.

thanks for the Hillary Is The Devil reminder. i certainly don’t see much of that distinction throughout the “progressive blogosphere”.

Smearing?

How about character “assassination”? I believe what we have here is a high-tech media lynching.

Call me a racist if you want,

You just want to pick a fight, as usual.

I’ve also stated my approval at Obama doing whatever it takes to win in November if he’s the nominee, and I hope he will. My guess is that his supporters now will have a change of heart about this as the race gets nastier and nastier. Seems his own aides did way back and told him he had to take the gloves off. Like I said, hypocrisy.

You’re not hearing my argument, which I suspect is willful. I’ve not said Obama is wrong for condemning anything Wright said. If he believes it, he’s not wrong at all. I’m not judging him on what he believes or doesn’t believe.

I’m also not sure what part of “I disagree with what she says” about this you’re not grasping. Now you’re trying to turn this into being about Clinton. It isn’t about Clinton.

But you’re wise to got that route and keep the focus on her or Wright, as I originally said, and off of Obama because there are genuine political problems for him here. That was the only point,and you pretty much prove it.

Now, since Obama repudiated Wright’s comments but you all think Wright is telling the truth, you must think Obama is against the truth or was just being political, as Wright said, or something like that. How do you reconcile Obama’s repudiation with your approval?

Notice I didn’t respond to you, but to Juno. After hearing Wright, I also was slightly disappointed at the repudiation extracted from Obama. However, Juno has arrived every morning since The Texas and Ohio primaries with every variation of the argument: Hillary good; Obmama bad. Sorry you felt grazed by a shot.

I believe people can respond to any post here, no matter to whom it is actually directed.

Btw, I’ve criticized Clinton FAR more than you have praised her, and I’ve defended Obama FAR more than you have Clinton. So it isn’t me with the “mine is all good, yours is all bad” problem. A little honest and a little less hostility might be helpful, Crosstimbers.

Take this debate elsewhere. I don’t care whether the Palestinians or the Israelis, the obamas or the clintons are to blame. Stop it.

If you listened, what Obama said was he condemned what he heard on those clips without having heard the entire sermons. As I see it, that is nothing like Hillary’s using every crappy ankle-biting shot to try to fatally damage Obama. I don’t wilfully misunderstand you. I wish I could agree with you, and have had no prolonged arguments with anyone else on FDL. Initially, I actually tried to reason with you, rather than refute, and you called me dishonest and guilty of using Republican spin. Other than that, I and others have noted that you use any argument available, even those contradicting your earlier points, to condemn Obama and support Hillary.

[Enough. Take this argument elsewhere, please. SC]

Sorry, I responded before seeing this. I’m done for today anyway and won’t come back if that’s your wish.

My wish is that you and others all come back. I welcome your comments and respect your opinions; I just don’t want to have another hundred comments back and forth on who’s fair or not wrt to Obama/Clinton.

I understand and will bite my lip in the future.

Mine has teeth marks all over it. Have a good day.

Stop what?

It is Crosstimbers, first of all, who brought Clinton into this, not I.

This thread is about the Rev. Wright situation, which is, ultimately, about the impact on Obama’s candidacy. It seems to me it is therefore legitimate to suggest that it is not anything Wright said that is the problem but how Obama responded to it. There would be no controversy over Wright but for Obama’s candidacy. In addition, you will notice that I merely responded to someone else who brought this up.

And where do I bring up blame about anything?

I’ve not felt welcome on this site from the first day I began posting here. I can’t even respond to what other people bring up or say without being told I’m instigating something. That is incredible. Your post would be more accurately directed at Crosstimbers, since it is she who brought up Clinton.

Ahhhhh….yet another loverly morning at the Lake.

We will have enough on our hands dealing with the aftermath of this morning’s Press Club interview. No need to get distracted.

As much as we may have loved every word that Wright had to say, the press just got shown for who they are and they do not like it when that happens. Get ready for more of the same inane taking stupid sound bites out of context. That’s what they know how to do and they do it well.

Oy.

Spin number one will be…Wright says he wants to be VP…Obama might pick him as VP….

My favorite moment was when he talked about his military service while being called unpatriotic and then he asked what military service Cheney had…LOL..he got a standing ovation…I guess we won’t get to see the standing ovation part…

Scarecrow,
It’s unbecoming of you to try to bully off this site the people who disagree with you. My Daddy, both grandfathers, and several uncles were preachers. I can guarantee you they never told God to damn anyone. Nor did any of them choose to blame America for the slaughter of innocents by terrorists in New York. Nor did they honor and give awards to raving racists like Farrakhan. As for Obama, he didn’t hear his pastor’s remarks before he did hear them. He first denied every hearing any such remarks and said if he had heard them he would have quit the church. Then it was revealed that a year before the remarks were disclosed to the public he had barred his pastor from his declaration of candidacy because he knew of such remarks by his pastor. Now Obama told us he had heard such remarks, and he condemned them, but he would not quit the church. Most recently, this mercedes-driving, 1.5-million-dollar house owning pastor told America via Bill Moyers that Obama wasn’t really condemning his remarks, he was just doing what he had to do politically speaking. This thing is a mess for Obama, and no amount of bullying or mau-mauing will erase it.

Super late to the thread but first….bom dia

Isn’t it too early for
Great post! it is interesting that there are those that persist in looking at Rev Wright’s words through a political lens when the man is neither a politician or making a political speech. People were and have made their judgement of Wright’s words, his overall message and Wright himself based upon soundbites taken out of context. If they still hold onto that picture of a man and his words after having heard his entire sermons and his interviews and speeches from this past weekend, it speaks more of them than it does Rev. Wright.

Juno, I hope your comment about not feeling welcome at the Lake was a generalization coming out of emotion.
You and I have had a few very nice back and forths. And, I remember once when you had had a heated discussion with another person, I wrote that I thought you were both intelligent and sincere in wanting dialogue.
That was an attempt on my part to make you feel welcome here.
It’s been my experience that the mods and headliners here make every effort to be fair and not direct comments personally.
I’ve found that it helps me deal with the world by trying not to take things personally.
RBG and SC, thanks for your indulgence with me. I’m not trying to fan any flames. Just felt compelled to say those words.

Here’s my favorite Chris Wallace question to Obama:

WALLACE: But did he ever say anything about America or about white racism that troubled you?

I love how he sees “America” and “white racism” as equivalent and implies there’s something “troubling” about criticizing either too harshly.

Ahhhh, as RBG said. I’ve been halfway ‘cross town, shopped for groceries and gas and come back and by golly there’s Juno again, still squinching eyes shut and refusing to see the agent provocateur in the mirror.

I know I’m way epu-ed, but this was exactly on, RevDeb. We must stay focused and carry the message forward. Enough of the Vapid Vapors Media.

Crosstimbers,You too need to stop trying to bully or mock people off of this site because you disagree with them. I and several other posters have asked for an explantion of Obama’s bobbing and weaving as to whether he heard such remarks, whether he condemns them, and whether he would have quite the church if he had heard them, which he now says he does. We would
also like to see an explantion of why a poor-people-serving minister needs a million and one-half dollars from his church to build a mansion and also who paid for the luxury car he drives. As the descendant of many ministers I am so very tired of these preachers who profit from their flock–it gives all ministers a bad name.

“Agent provacateur?” My God man, you sound like one of the Trotskyite sects of the American communist party in the 30’s; so eager to label and drum out of the organization anyone who disagrees with you, especially when they write with the wit and intelligence of someone like Juno. Why don’t you give a substantive points that Juno and I are making in this thread about how much Obama still needs to explain, and how this mess is not just going to go away by Obamaites stomping their feet and holding their breath.

Can we elevate the discourse above accusing people of ‘bullying’ because they disagree with one another?

Really.

Namecalling and using buzzword labels for people is a form of bullying. It is bullying to call someone a racist when they obviously are not (Raven #270; KDH #27. (Thanks to Scarecrow for calling out folks on that one.)
Mocking Juno’s elequent posts instead r, esponding to the substance of his concerns is bullying. Crosstimberrs #281,288. Calling someone an “agent provocateur” because they disagree with you is bullying. Prairie Sunshine #303 And telling someone to take their comments elsewhere and to “stop it” is bullying of the first order, especially when it comes from Scarecrow, the author and moderator of this blog. #289, 290. Finally, misquoting someone (me) and telling them to elevate their discourse is a form of bullying when their is no factual foundation to the criticism. Wobblybits #307.

LMAO @ Douglas

Thanks for the gift of your escellent post. Right on bro.
I’m sad about the squabling going on and the ongoing inability to deal with real challenges that Wright addresses and Americans simply don’t want to know about, much less do anything about. God help us all.
One of the things I cling to from the Moyers interview was Wright’s use of the biblical phrase, which I can’t remember exactly, about what evil man does can be redeemed by God, recounting the Joseph story of forgiveness and reconciliation I hope to see a fulfillment of God’s redemption of what is so painful to me from our MSM, political leaders, etc.

Grace and peace to all

Thanks Douglas.

Interesting that Scarecrow directed his chastising post in which he says he doesn’t want a back and forth about Clinton v. Obama not at the person who first brought Clinton up but at the person who actually said Clinton is irrelevant to this discussion. The person who responded to posts is called the “agent provocateur”. Wobblybits apparently has a problem with the term “bullying” but no problem with a constant refrain, directed at one person over a course of a week, of “agent provocateur”. Another in here simply repeats, “Do not feed…” as though I’m an animal. In response to my saying I don’t like what Clinton has said about Rev. Wright, Crosstimbers accused me of twisting arguments to “condemn Obama” (where have I ever “condemned” Obama?!) and support Clinton. Good grief.

The problem is that there simply is no tolerance by Obama supporters of any injection of reality that is either critical of Obama or even merely points out that he’s got flaws. They might as well require loyalty oaths be signed before joining! What is clear, though, is that differing views are not welcome. I doubt I’ll be back. I’ve had enough.

Btw, new AP/Ipsos poll shows Clinton beating McCain by 9 points and Obama tied (but actually losing now). I’ve noticed this poll is not showing up on any of these Obama-supporting blogs (Joshua Michael Marshall has it), and I wonder, since it’s the Obama camp expressing concern for the party, if this trend continues, will they insist Obama drop out and the SDs go with Clinton.

Anyway, ciao.

It seems to me that the bobble-heads are missing two very important points:

1. Rev. Wright was speaking the truth about how America doesn’t take care of its poor and weak – those of all races who can’t take care of themselves. It’s understandable that we’d prefer not to hear ugly truths about our country and ourselves, but the truth is the truth, no matter who or what the source.

2. Rev. Wright served his country as a Navy Medic, attached to the Marine Corps. Make no mistake about it, that was a COMBAT billet, and he has the decorations to prove it. (I’d love to see the Swiftboaters ask about his service record, but you can rest assured they won’t.) I wonder how many of the people questioning his patriotism have served their country in any way at all? And by “served their country”, I don’t mean by wearing a “made in China” lapel pin, like Senator McConnell, Representative Boehner, and most of the wingnut propaganda parrots on radio and TV. Patriotism is, truly, the first refuge of scoundrels. (Apologies to S. Johnson and A. Bierce.)

Obama-Heathers here on FDL? You don’t say! The republican/media “smearing” of Rev. Wright maybe a moot accusation since, apparently, he is busy hurling racially polarizing statements in public forums. Now if only he had quit after the softball questions from kindly Bill Moyers…..

Do stick around, Juno. I, for one, find your comments very refreshing.

Brilliant, incisive riposte, kdh22. dtc&gmss***

***(drop the crudity and give me some substance)

Thanks.

Why do the Clintons derive more support than Obama from “working class whites” with less than a high school education? Please advise asap.

Because they’re bread-and-butter/common-sense, paycheck-to-paycheck voters who want concrete answers and have no interest in vague, lofty, high-ideal candidates, for better or worse.

What do they get from the Clintons in that regard?