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Everyone should watch Bill Moyers' Journal interview of Jeremiah Wright, including extended excerpts of the sermons whose out of context snippets have been played relentlessly on our televisions.
America's media, and especially Fox News, MSNBC's morning joes and others, have outrageously defamed a highly regarded theologian and righteous man. And by association, they've defamed an entire congregation -- an "attack on the Black Church," as Reverend Wright said this morning -- and a respected branch of Christian theology, all because the Republican right wing wants to smear a Democratic candidate for President. It's time for what's left of the responsible media to condemn the smears and apologize for this journalistic travesty.
Some of the most controversial sound bites are snippets from Wright's sermon on the Sunday after 9/11, when every religious leader in the country struggled to help their congregations deal with the evil that had just occurred. How could they make sense of such evil?
Reverend Wright chose his text from Psalms Chapter 137, a lament from the Old Testament written thousands of years ago by those who understood the meaning of suffering, of the horrors of war and the struggle for liberation from oppression and slavery.
Others more qualified can interpret Psalm 137, but part of the sermon discussed how perceptions of God depend on whether you're the victor or the vanquished. The God of the attacker is not the God of the victims, any more than the God of the slave owner is the God of the slaves.
Using Psalm 137, Wright described how the desire for revenge affects us, allowing wars that begin with attacks on the enemy's soldiers to degrade into attacks against the innocent . . . even to the point where we proclaim,
Wright, a Marine veteran, was warning about the nature of war, about the consequences of seeking revenge and of viewing one's nation as morally infallible. It was a sermon that might have been preached in a thousand churches and synagogues that Sunday. Wars can become a slaughter of innocents, and the belligerents accept it. That is what Wright saw coming after 9/11; it's what happened in Psalm 137; it is where we are today.
Yesterday's New York Times reported the anger of Afghanistan President Karzai, who has repeatedly pleaded with US and British forces to end operations that inevitably kill innocents in his country. It has happened over and over. In Wright's sermon, Psalm 137 predicts such outcomes. And he could have easily been talking about citizens in Gaza or Israel, or the Green Zone and Sadr City. Armies inevitably kill innocents, and each side excuses their own.
President Bush, a self-proclaimed Christian, had a predictably un-Christian response to 9/11 when he grabbed the bullhorn to boast that those who did this "will soon hear from us." His approval ratings soared. Now they are as low as any President's. Yet despite hundreds of thousands of Iraqi/Afghani/US deaths and millions displaced, and despite the catastrophic failure of Bush's war policies, that initial response still defines American foreign policy and constrains our political discourse. It afflicts both parties.
It remains politically unacceptable to suggest that America's response should be anything other than a relentless "war" against terrorism. But for some the enemy includes anyone we can even remotely (or dishonestly) associate with the terrorists who attacked us.
Just like Bush, John McCain and his Republican Party, with help from a complicit media, dishonestly expanded "associate with terrorists" to include anyone who opposes their aggressive wars. In labeling Obama the "Hamas candidate," McCain is not just defaming Obama and distorting what Wright or Obama said; he's trying to rule out of bounds any discussion of alternatives to 100 years of war in responding to terrorism.
In McCain's view, Barack Obama associates with terrorism merely by living in a neighborhood with those with radical histories, or by attending a Christian Church where ministers point out the evils of war, even though Wright's sermons that were quoted out of context unequivocally condemn terrorism in all forms, and even though the insinuation that Barack Obama holds terrorist sympathies is a preposterous lie.
Our media know these are preposterous lies. A responsible media would immediately condemn the lies and the liars. These outrageous smears reveal how dishonest and unethical McCain and his party are, and thus how unqualified he and they are to hold the Presidency.
__________
For more on the Moyer's interview and Wright's sermons, see Pastor Dan. I expect others at Firedoglake will return to this as well. Also note that Bill O'Reilly thinks we should "hang" Bill Moyers over this interview. See dmac comment for links to sermons.
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Good morning.
Thanks for this post, Scarecrow!
Interesting that allies are emerging in places we may not have expected. See my comments at the tail of last thread about Imus pushing back against Dobbs’ shut up, uppity Negro meme.
Good morning Scarecrow.
Please edit— Psalm 137 (not plural). then obliterate this comment :-)
MSNBC’s Morning Joe program is beating the drum on this story again. Mika Brezinski is pathetic in her coverage. By the way on the same show Mika gave little coverage to the fact that John McCain was using his wife’s private jet to campaign at the same time he was caling Obama an elitist.
O’Reilly can go FH.
But they won’t. They are complicit in the whole scam. Few of them ever take the time to look at a whole picture. When they read they scan for gotchas. When they look at video they do the same thing. That, as they see it, is their job. They think it is up to us to do the interpretation and the analysis BASED ON WHAT THEY TELL US. Which, of course, is paltry gotchas.
They know what they are doing. It’s most of the viewing and reading public that hasn’t yet figured that out. But with the backlash against the ABC “debate” more and more folks are starting to wake up.
And the Moyers program was exceptional!
Dugggg :)
Rev. Wright’s interview on Moyers was very illuminating. Rather than painting him as a cartoon characture the way the corporate media has, he is revealed in the interview as compassionate, scholarly, soulful and wise.
Rev. Wright gives Mr. Obama more dimension.
I tuned in to Fox News last evening to see if they would be reporting excerpts from Obama’s appearance earlier. Imagine my surprise to see them reporting live and as breaking news, the entire speech made by Reverend Wright to the NAACP in Detroit. I didn’t listen to it all, but it was quite good. Apparently, Fox was waiting for him to say something they could jump on. After the speech, the anchor pointed out that he had referred to some of “us reporters as stuck-on stupid.” Now, isn’t he mean? /s
I was lucky enough to find a 4-part video of Rev Wright’s speech at the NAACP dinner last night just after it aired. Quite the learning experience for me. His remarks about learning and linguistics were an eye-opener for this supposedly educated white male. Later today I’ll be looking for an mp3 of the speech to add to the copies of his “controversial” speeches. It took the crowd quite a while to warm to the good Rev but by the end they were on their feet. The media and the GOP can go straight to hell in a handbasket, far as I’m concerned. If the truth is controversial then these bozos need to find something else to do. More like Rev Jeremiah Wright, please. Please.
Good Morning Scarecrow and everybody,
This morning Rev. Wright is giving a speech to a breakfast meeting of the National Press Club, it’ll be on CSPAN at 9am.
Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s Perspective
Nice post, scarecrow.
MrsK8 and I chatted about Psalm 137 about a year and a half ago at the end of a thread on the violence in the Left Behind video game that Jane had posted. The back and forth starts at comment 163.
I was out of town and off the tubes when the Wright story first came up, and by the time I got back the political conversation had more or less moved on, so I didn’t post on it then. Given how Wright is obviously not going away, I’ll likely have more on him myself later on.
I’ve met Wright on several occasions, worshiped at Trinity United Church of Christ, and heard him speak at a couple of clergy conferences. The Wright you saw on Moyers fit perfectly with the Wright I’ve met in person.
According to the CSPAN website, it will be on C-SPAN2 at 9 Eastern.
Yes ma’am. I wasn’t sure so followed the Bible link.
Daniel in the lions den?
Yep. He was the keynote speaker at our ministry days conference last year at our denominational convention. Very articulate and passionate man. I think much of the press has trouble with him because he’s very much smarter than they and they can’t admit that they can’t follow what he’s saying. So they mock it.
It’s the Book of Psalms but each individual one is a Psalm (think song).
Bill Moyers is just what NPR should be about. Cookey Roberts on the other hand is a white version of Malkin. The Rev Wright story is overblown, unneeded and surely damn all to do with who would make a “good” pres candidate. Elizabeth Edwards column in yesterday’s NYT was right on. We spend more time talking about things that don’t matter, have no bearing on who should or should not be pres. and only serve to sell trash as news for the corporate masters. Wright, to me, is just one more Rev. spouting his mouth to try and fill the coffers of his church just like the corporate news outlets are trying to fill their coffers. It is all bullshit.
Good analogy. We’ll see just how many real thinkers we have in the national press corpse. I’m betting close to zero.
Bill Maher owes Rev. Wright an apology. He called him a dick on Friday. I doubt he had seen the interview with Mr. Moyers.
That’s one piece of the story. The other is journalistic laziness.
What they did with Wright is as sloppy a job of journalism as mindlessly accepting the WH talking points on Valerie Plame, warrantless wiretapping, “enhanced interrogation techniques,” the firings of the US Attorneys, etc.
Gosh, does anyone else see a pattern here?
Do you know what he has done for the community he lives in? Some Christians are Christians.
Interesting. Was there a link to the Imus comment?
Always good to bet on a sure thing. One day the national press is yuking it up with Bush and doing dance numbers with Rove and the next they are at the throat of a learned and wise African American.
I’ve got a feeling that about 12,000 NAACP dinner attendees and his congregation would disagree with that assessment. As do I.
As usual, great post. I continue to admire Rev. Wright more and more. There have been literally hours and hours of character assassination against him by the racists Mika, Mornin Joe, and among the worst, Pat Buchanan.
These attacks are totally racist. The fake corporate journalists must justify their false narrative against Wright. It is time to change the narrative to the corporate corruption of a once free press.
If guilt by association is valid, then Racist Buchanan and Racist Drug Addled Rush Limbo, are sponsored by Racist corporations. We may choose not to purchase their products.
Excellent post, Scarecrow. Unfortunately, the media treatment of both Wright and Obama over the last few days has been extremely discouraging and brings mind another biblical quotation:
“Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.”
But it has nothing to do with elections for pres. Nothing.
It takes one to know one, but then again one of them isn’t a dick. Guess which one.
http://www.tucc.org/ministries.htm
FOX indeed did lead the pack on the smears, but they never would have took hold had the non-FOX media ignored them. The ABC non-debate was a total travesty.
Again what the heck does it have to do with pres. elections?
Good post, and I totally agree about Wright, and with the above comments about the media. But at the risk of being divisive, it wasn’t McCain who started the Jeremiah Wright hate frenzy.
Why not?
Like people give a shit about his community.
Exactly.
Let the record show that Bill Moyers is also an ordained minister.
Dick Gregory on Imus this morning — will look for link at WABC Radio and share as soon as it’s available. Meanwhile this links to the page where they post their interviews.
Dippin’ in and out this am, Scarecrow, Imus sometimes covers the same ground in his final hour, and WABC live-streams, so a techie pup may find it there again.
i listened to the entire 911 sermon (the day jerusalem fell) several times this weekend, and i don’t recall anything about justifiable wars..
i actually think he’s making a different point - about where our desire for revenge takes us.
hmmm… will listen again this morning. this sermon - and the confusing god and government sermon are, imo, worth many listens.
True dat. Though he was quick to take advantage of it.
Wright is a convenient way to get at Obama. But when you think about it, smearing a religious leader for preaching strongly against war, for reminding nations of hubris/jingoism is like attacking one of the moral foundations of all religions. The attack is against all religions.
And who is John McCain’s pastor?
Does McCain actually go to church?
Anyone who’s ever been the subject of a media report (local rag or national TV) knows inaccuracy is part of the game.
Anyone who’s ever played war knows civilians suffer the most. Hate to mix metaphors, but those caught in the middle end up sucking hind tit. Big time.
By the way, there is no God on this planet…only American Greed.
Gotcha!
Really? I did not know that. It would explain a lot.
Al Gore himself nearly became a preacher — he was a Divinity student at Vandy early on in his college career, IIRC.
Yup. It was revenge that got us into this mess.
Reverend Wright speaks the truth.
Some non christians are a damnsight more “christian” than some professed christians. So what does that have to do with the election for pres?
one of the things that disappoints me most is what people like larry johnson have been saying about wright. it’s bad enough to hear what the media and republicans have to say. but i really want clinton’s supporters to denounce the lies that are being told.
The presidential election is not the only thing happening in this country. Were it not for ABC trying to smear Obama the majority in this country would have never heard of the Rev Jeremiah Wright. ABC, probably to their great regret, made Rev Wright a national issue. And he has responded with intelligence and integrity. You might try listening to just these three speeches. Hopefully, they will help make me a better person. And it has nothing to do with religion.
Moyers is—believe it or not—a Southern Baptist minister. Though for obvious reasons, his idea of what a SB is differs greatly from what they have become since he was ordained.
intelligence and integrity
That’s a surefire loser in this raggedy-ass outfit.
For me this election is about speaking truth to power. Rev. Wright is showing us how to do this with grace and dignity.
For the record I am not a believer.
I listened to two speeches. The Moyers thing and the NAACP thingy. To me it is just one more preaching priest. As an atheist it means damn all to me.
Clinton’s supporters have been contributing to the feeding frenzy. That’s what desperate campaigns do and they demean themselves by doing it.
selise — that’s my reading of what the “revege” theme can mean; you’re right about the quote, so I need to edit that to be more accurate. Gimme a minute.. . . . It’s fixed.
When a speaker — religious or otherwise — who is a close friend and advisor of one of the candidates for president addresses a major issue of the upcoming political campaign, that’s important.
When that speaker’s words get twisted, repackaged, and reforged into a racist weapon, that’s even more important.
When that repackaging gets swallowed whole by the media as the unvarnished truth, and they mindlessly repeat it without checking the facts, that’s still more important yet.
It’s not about religion — it’s about dirty politics and sloppy journalism.
Who is McCain’s pastor?
Well, there’s Dan Yeary, who is the pastor of the Baptist church that McCain has kinda-sorta attended for the last two decades; McCain attends, but hasn’t joined and is still an Episcopalian, not a Baptist.
Then there’s John Hagee, whose endorsement of McCain was actively sought by McCain.
yep - just listening again.
wright’s 911 sermon is not about justifiable war.
i think this is a very important point. because he speaks clearly and passionately of the insanity of the cycle of violence.
reverence to revenge
worship to war
paying tithes to paying back
hatred of armed enemies to the hatred of unarmed innocents
highly recommend the complete sermon.
yes. See the edit.
oo Thanks PW, that answers a lot of my questions about McCain’s churchiness.
If it were obama’s high school gym teacher that spoke up I do not think anyone would give a hoot but when it is a religionist that speaks somehow he/she is given more credibility.
Some of them have been, but then they’ve also stopped supporting Clinton. The African-American community saw how in September of 1998, the Clintons invited Wright and other pastors to the White House to be a sort of godly human shield between the Clintons and the imminent release of the Starr Report. Wright was there for the Clintons in their darkest hour, yet that didn’t stop them from backstabbing him. That is what is ticking off the black community, which as Donna Brazile pointed out still remembers how the Clintons abused Sister Souljah to score points with racist white voters.
It is dull and intellectually dishonest to lump all Christians into one category. Sort of like saying all Blacks are the same, or even all republicans. I consider Rev. Wright and Suzanne to be extraordinary people. Everyone has their own gift. They just have to try and find it.
sorry, i was listening….
still strongly disagree - it’s not about how revenge changes wars - it’s about what the desire for revenge does to us. he asks what our response should be, and his first answer is self examination.
It will be interesting to see (if) Clinton’s supporters back down from the shots they have been taking at Obama if/when Obama wins the nomination. Some have been pushing these things so hard, I don’t know if they can back down.
I find it especially interesting that while McCain calls himself a Baptist, Yeary’s tried to get McCain to drop his Episcopalianism and join Yeary’s Baptist church and McCain won’t do it.
To me, that looks very much like McCain wants to make conservative white voters think he’s one of them, yet can’t quite go whole hog.
Moyers is an American Baptist. A very different denomination than the Southern Baptist. Think Roger Williams, MLK.
If you only saw the clips on Moyers you’ve not heard either of the sermons in their entirety. Each clip was, at best, about one-fifth of the sermon. While the clips put the controversial comments in context, somewhat, they did not convey the totality of his message. Listen to both sermons in their entirety, then make your points. American Idol isn’t about the presidential election but is very popular with Americans I’m told. When a person speaks with such passion and truth I pay attention. I listen to the speeches of Dr Martin Luther King, Jr as well. They have nothing to do with the presidential election but they sure as hell have a great deal to do with the way I think and conduct myself.
i’ve only listened to two sermons. is there a third available? i could listen to wright all day long.
My first father-in-law was one. Well nigh Unitarian he was.
Ding.
It’s all about politics all of the time. It’s about how it “looks” not what it is. The more pious and faithful don’t have to pray in public or display their generosity for all to see. It ought to be a personal thing, yet it is now SOP. And the religious hucksters use them back.
Bah humbug on it all.
well, the smear isn’t working around here, farmer folk and ladies who don’t normally call in to the local show were going on and on about him over the weekend, in a good way……..many were very touched by him.
sent the links someone provided over the weekend to the show and the two sermons to the radio show, people were wanting them…..
didn’t read whole post yet, in a hurry, don’t know if these were included–someone posted them, sorry don’t remember who it was….
9/11 sermon
http://odeo.com/audio/17889043/view
god and government sermon
http://odeo.com/audio/17890793/view
so, all good here in se ohio about rev. wright…..
bbl
I’m counting last night’s speech as well. There is a 4-part video available. I’ll have to go back and find the site. To see his demonstrating the difference between the marching bands of Michigan and Florida A&M had me in stitches. The crowd was his at that point. Amazing speech.
Obama’s gym teacher would be just as much under discussion if the opposition portrayed the gym teacher as an avowed anti-American crackpot with whom Obama had chose to associate for 30 years. If the gym teacher then began to make speeches and the adversaires contorted the meaning in order to defeat Obama, it would be of concern. John Stewart boiled it down when he asked Obama whether, if were elected, he would “enslave white people.” That’s really the bullshit theme which is being played to voters by the MSM and others.
It’s pretty ironic, isn’t it? Baptists, even in the SBC, used to be all about finding one’s own path to God and having a horror of received wisdom. Now the SBC sets the tone, and the tone is goosestepping authoritarianism.
Good Morning
Last presidential election religion was manipulated and driven by hate (gay marriage.) This time it’s being distorted and used to destroy 2 men and a church, and demonize a race of people.
It’s just wrong.
Thanks for the report, dmac!
That is the kind of baptist church I was raised in. Avery Lee, the pastor, was against the Vietnam War. Walked the walk. Talked the talk.
Thanks much for the local feedback and the links.
yeah, he wasn’t willing to get all wet over it.
I stayed up dizzy with information and anger last night. I am going back to bed. See you all later.
Now you have really lost me. What does american idol have to do with anything? I have never seen it, or any other “reality” shows and I have intention of seeing them Just the same as I have no intention of seeing anymore of Wright. What he has to say is not of any importance to me. He speaks from a place that is frought with fiction and fantasy, not of importance. Now if Obama or clinton2 were to say something about any of the important issues facing this country well then I will listen.
I well know the difference. I went to a UCC/ABC seminary. Moyers went to Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary—a So. Baptist school. I heard him talk about it somewhere and I’m almost sure he said Southern Baptist and used the qualification about the direction they had taken not being his own.
the second response to 911 (after personal reflection) that wright advocates (as an alternative to revenge transformations i listed above) is:
social transformation - we have got to change the way we have been doing things. as a society, as a country and as an arrogant, militaristic, superpower.
instead of figuring out who we’re going to declare war on, maybe we need to declare war on racisms, in justice, greed,….
we can’t go on treating the rest of the world the way we’ve been treating them.
(just some quick notes to try and give a bit of the flavor or his message. please don’t take this as a replacement for listening to the whole thing)
Here’s what you posted yesterday:
t would be nice for Obama to turn the tables on Wallace and his neocon friends and show the country just what hypocritical racists they really are. I have little doubt that Rev Wright will be among the topics. By doing a little research I have no doubt that this whole thing was a hit job by ABC with absolutely no redeeming quality.
I’ve listened to both of the sermons ABC’s sound bites came from, in their entirety, and all I can say is that I’ve been heavily involved in the anti-war movement since early 2002 and I’d like to know why I hadn’t heard of this man until recently. Had he spoken to the half million on the mall those many years ago we just might be in a different place today.
I would encourage everyone to listen to these sermons, whether you define yourself as a Christian or not. I’m not, but the social justice implications contained in these sermons cannot be ignored. His words transcend any religious connotations.
http://odeo.com/audio/17889043/view
http://odeo.com/audio/17890793/view
The first link is the 9/11 sermon, the second is the god and government sermon.
Peace Love Light
I believe Jimmy Carter was also Southern Baptist and talked about his parting of ways with them.
try this.
Wright on CSpan 2 now.
That’s right. I met Mr. Moyers and his wife in Sonoma years ago. They have become good friends with my friends that own the b and b were they stayed. All texans.
There is a big split in the Southern Baptist denomination these days. Partially over the politicization of the church in recent years. IIRC, Jimmy Carter is a Southern Baptist.
thank you. i look forward to seeing that too.
Him too. Actually Carter officially disassociated himself from the So. Baptists.
I believe I owe you a Coke, Crosstimbers.
Mr. dunkin donut?
I stand by those comments. I was wrong about Obama/Wallace on Fox, though.
Now on to the Rev’s speech at the Press Club now CSPAN 1
I don’t have cable so I’ll have to pick it up on the web later today.
Wow!
what a reception
Lol. I don’t want to start controversy, but I’m a Dr. Pepper man.
The So. Baptists were taken over by the fundamentalist wing probably about 20 years ago. They have been struggling and fighting with the more liberal folks trying to regain hold, but it hasn’t worked. The fundies are pretty much firmly entrenched.
good morning, scarecrow. i have been horrified by those verses in that psalm for a long time, and didn’t understand how to look at them until i played the audio of Rev Wright’s sermon. He teaching brought tremendous understanding. He is a great teacher, on par with those i have studied with at (Adult Ed programs )Hebrew College and Harvard theologian.
try this SD,
http://www.c-span.org/watch/cs.....38;Code=CS
Yep, that’s the one. Thanks for saving me from searching for it again. Wonderful speech.