Let me start with some disclosure: I know Jeremiah Wright. I’ve worshiped at Trinity United Church of Christ a time or two. I’ve heard Wright speak at clergy conferences. I’ve had a couple of one-on-one conversations with him.
With that said . . . Oh, that man can preach. But as any preacher will tell you, it helps if people would listen. As a preacher with some 20+ years of my own experience in the pulpit, I shudder to think what would happen if some of my sermons were snipped and sliced and diced in the same manner as those of Jeremiah Wright.
The most lamentable aspect of the way Wright has been swift-boated is the manner in which his critics snipped his quotes out of context. CNN’s Roland Martin, underneath the broader radar of the media, noted that Jeremiah Wright’s now-infamous sermon addressing 9/11 was completely misrepresented:
One of the most controversial statements in this sermon was when he mentioned “chickens coming home to roost.” He was actually quoting Edward Peck, former U.S. Ambassador to Iraq and deputy director of President Reagan’s terrorism task force, who was speaking on FOX News. That’s what he told the congregation.
To hear the media speak about it, though, this was Wright trying to burn down the White House. I’m not surprised that you didn’t hear this on Fox — though the initial interview with Peck took place on Fox! — but the fact that the media missed this is stunning. Even on CNN, apart from the blog post, you’d never get the idea that their reporters ever listened to the whole sermon. and judging from this morning’s performance by reporters at Wright’s appearance at the National Press Club, they’re still not listening.
Bill Moyers had a wonderful interview with Wright on Friday night. It struck me as a much more honest picture of Wright than has been out there in the media to this point. Wright’s not a wild-eyed radical, but he speaks in the vernacular of the Black Church in ways that those outside might easily misunderstand. The Moyers interview, especially the opening, gave a lot more context that I think probably helped those with a bit of an open mind to see him more on his own terms than on the terms of the religious and especially the political right.
Wright was absolutely on target in his analysis of his 9/11 sermon and the way it has been used. He was crystal clear for those worshiping that day, who heard the whole thing. The right, OTOH, was also crystal clear in the way they twisted his words, and they too communicated what they wanted to communicate:
BILL MOYERS: . . . Did you somehow fail to communicate?
REVEREND WRIGHT: The persons who have heard the entire sermon understand the communication perfectly. What is not the failure to communicate is when something is taken like a sound bite for a political purpose and put constantly over and over again, looped in the face of the public. That’s not a failure to communicate. Those who are doing that are communicating exactly what they wanna do, which is to paint me as some sort of fanatic or as the learned journalist from the New York Times called me, a "wack-a-doodle." It’s to paint me as something. Something’s wrong with me. There’s nothing wrong with this country. There’s -its policies. We’re perfect. We-our hands are free. Our hands have no blood on them. That’s not a failure to communicate. The message that is being communicated by the sound bites is exactly what those pushing those sound bites want to communicate.
BILL MOYERS: What do you think they wanted to communicate?
REVEREND WRIGHT: I think they wanted to communicate that I am- unpatriotic, that I am un-American, that I am filled with hate speech, that I have a cult at Trinity United Church of Christ. And, by the way, guess who goes to his church, hint, hint, hint? That’s what they wanted to communicate. They know nothing about the church. They know nothing about our prison ministry. They know nothing about our food share ministry. They know nothing about our senior citizens home. They know nothing about all we try to do as a church and have tried to do, and still continue to do as a church that believes what Martin Marty said, that the two worlds have to be together-the world before church and the world after postlude. And that the gospel of Jesus Christ has to speak to those worlds, not only in terms of the preached message on a Sunday morning but in terms of the lived-out ministry throughout the week.
That "learned journalist from the New York Times"? Maureen Dowd.
Moyers also played a clip of the "God Damn America" moment from another Wright sermon, the transcript of which reads as follows:
Where governments lie, God does not lie. Where governments change, God does not change. And I’m through now. But let me leave you with one more thing. Governments fail. The government in this text comprised of Caesar, Cornelius, Pontius Pilate – the Roman government failed. The British government used to rule from East to West. The British government had a Union Jack. She colonized Kenya, Ghana, Nigeria, Jamaica, Barbados, Trinidad and Hong Kong. Her navies ruled the seven seas all the way down to the tip of Argentina in the Falklands, but the British government failed. The Russian government failed. The Japanese government failed. The German government failed. And the United States of America government, when it came to treating her citizens of Indian descent fairly, she failed. She put them on reservations. When it came to treating her citizens of Japanese descent fairly, she failed. She put them in internment prison camps. When it came to treating citizens of African descent fairly, America failed. She put them in chains. The government put them on slave quarters, put them on auction blocks, put them in cotton fields, put them in inferior schools, put them in substandard housing, put them in scientific experiments, put them in the lowest paying jobs, put them outside the equal protection of the law, kept them out of their racist bastions of higher education and locked them into position of hopelessness and helplessness. The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law, and then wants us to sing God bless America? No, no, no. Not God bless America; God damn America! That’s in the Bible, for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating her citizen as less than human. God damn America as long as she keeps trying to act like she is God and she is supreme!
After the clip ended, Moyers asked him "What did you mean when you said that?" Wright’s answer was direct and to the point:
When you start confusing God and government, your allegiances to government – a particular government and not to God, that [sic - then] you’re in serious trouble because governments fail people.
That’s hardly a radical point of view. Pastors like Jerry Falwell on the right have said as much from their pulpits, and centuries of preachers of every stripe, on every continent have said the same.
At about the 10:40 mark in the interview, Moyers flashed a photo on the screen:
BILL MOYERS: He served six years in the military: two as a marine, and four in the Navy as a cardiopulmonary technician. That’s where our paths crossed for the only time.
[operating room photo goes up]
That’s Jeremiah Wright, behind the I.V. pole, monitoring President Lyndon Johnson’s heart as he was recovering from gall bladder surgery at Bethesda Naval Hospital. And right behind him is a very young me. I was the President’s Press Secretary.
REVEREND WRIGHT: As you know, the President had to be operated on and out of surgery by 9:00 when the stock market opened. And talking and wide awake. So, we scrubbed in, like, 3:00 in the morning.
When he awakened, unlike other patients, you did not move him to recovery. You didn’t move him to ICU. They kept him right there for security reasons. Secret Service all around, there was secret service in the whole operating suite and nobody else allowed in the operating suite except Secret Service.
So, after about an hour and a half, I went to get some coffee. And as I was coming back from the lounge where the coffee was, going back to monitor, I saw the guys talkin’ into their wristwatches and I was nodding, speaking to them. So, I turn to go into the room to check the pace. And secret service guys standing there grabbed me, knocked the coffee outta my hand, burned me with the hot coffee, twisted my arm up behind my neck and screams into his phone, "I got him." And I was, "Got him?" And I’m screamin’ in pain. And my assistant comes running out of the booth. He sees me jacked up and he starts laughing. I said, "Joe, don’t laugh. Tell him who I am." And he said, "He’s been here all morning."
BILL MOYERS: Standing above the President.
REVEREND WRIGHT: Guy looked at me, pulled my mask up over face [gestures to demonstrate], "Oh, yeah." And that was it.
The US Secret Service could admit their mistake at roughing up this Navy OR nurse. It would be nice to see the media and the McCain campaign do the same.
Oh, and I want a pony too.
Given the quality of most of the questions asked at Wright’s appearance at the National Press Club this morning, however, I’m not holding my breath. (transcript here; CSPAN video here) The very first question from one of the press club members was this:
You have said that the media have taken you out of context. Can you explain what you meant in the sermon shortly after 9/11 when you said the United States had brought the terrorist attacks on itself? Quote, "America’s chickens are coming home to roost."
Wright’s initial reply was not exactly diplomatic — "Have you heard the whole sermon?" — but it was absolutely correct. Any reporter who had bothered listening to the whole sermon, or had viewed a longer excerpt of the sermon, would not have even bothered asking the question.
Jeffrey Weiss of the Dallas Morning-News, for instance, never would have asked that. Indeed, Weiss said this last month:
I’ve now read and heard the entire [famous/notorious "God damn America" sermon].
For everyone who has either attacked or defended Rev. Wright, I have a suggestion: Go and do likewise. The text and audio of the whole 40 minutes or so of what is formally entitled "Confusing God and government" were eye-opening to me — and not in one direction. This sermon is profoundly anti-government in general, anti-U.S. government in specific, and boy-howdy anti-George W. Bush. But it’s also a message of hope and redemption with a solid stream of links to bible verses.
So much for question #1 at the National Press Club. What’s next?
Some critics have said that your sermons are unpatriotic. How do you feel about America and about being an American?
Again, "diplomatic" is not the word I would use to describe Wright’s answer:
I feel that those citizens who say that have never heard my sermons, nor do they know me. They are unfair accusations taken from sound bites and that which is looped over and over again on certain channels. I served six years in the military — does that make me patriotic? How many years did Cheney serve?
When Wright finished that answer, he stepped away from the microphone, shrugged to the audience, and saluted. Once more, not diplomatic, but a direct slam at those members of the media who can’t be bothered to do their own research and would rather simply pass along rightwing talking points.
*sigh*
You get the idea. Let’s hope the media does too.
Yeah, I know. Maybe I’ll have better luck getting that pony.



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So, Peterr!
No, they can’t
or rather, they won’t.
He got a standing ovation when he made the Cheney comment.
I’m still pissed off at Disney-ABC for making this a bogus issue in the last debate. They knew that they were misportraying Wrights sermon’s and making a spurious attack on Obama’s integrity.
And yet where they are involved at the marketing of young girls for “entertainment” they quite simply are utter hypocrites.
So, there wasn’t deliberate manipulation of the truth to sell advertising for the Pennsylvania debate? And Miley Cyrus isn’t manipulated DAILY!
One thing to keep in mind about the National Press Club audience. Some were guests of the club, and others were the journalist members of the club.
Only the members can ask questions, and I’m guessing they weren’t the ones doing the clapping.
awesome post, Peterr
His message last night at the NAACP fundraiser in Detroit was also amazing. ‘Different But Not Deficient’ is something that we all needed to hear. What is sad is that the media and many others outside of the media maligned a man’s character for political gains.
Oh…I see.
I stood up at my house *g*..
Ah don know who this Cyrus girl is- but it’s a little odd that she got her picture taken in nothin but a sheet and then complained that a picture came out with her in nothin but a sheet…
Someone needs ta spain how these camera things work ta the poor girl.
Great post, Peterr. Let the media suck on a lemon.
amazing all the pontificating, bloviating and grand standing that came from folks who obviously only watched sound bites, are woefully ignorant or both.
Peterr.
Excellent post.
Render unto the Bush Administration…render unto God.
There is nothing unpatriotic about the man.
I especially liked the part of the interview where he explained that God can bring good things about from chaos and bad things.
We now have several very important issues on the table of debate in this country. Issues that a lot of people have been afraid to address.
As Dmac shared earlier today, the link to his church’s website:
http://www.tucc.org.
tbc
It will be interesting to see which comments that Wright made today get used in the media accounts, especially the evening news shows.
I’m sure that Wright was damaged by the editing of his sermons- and it’s also quite likely that even WITH the whole context, lots of americans wouldn’t like what he’s sayin….no one likes to hear about where we’re fuckin up- and we fuck up a lot- specially with an idiot in the White House.
Wright’s speech revealed something important to me unrelated to the topic, which is how seldom someone makes a speech in public who doesn’t talk down to his audience. He knew his subject, he spoke as though to an intelligent audience who would understand most of it and be willing to look up those parts they didn’t understand if they were interested.
The U.S. press will hate that. They want W one-liners releated ad naseum that they can merely take down as dictation.
No, wait, no.
That was my friend MaryMc who post that link…
:)
God Bless Pastor/Nurse Wright!
God Bless Pastor Peterr!
God Bless Bill Moyers!
God Damn MoDo!
Obama didn’t defend the sermons, he condemned em and claimed he had never heard em…so goin back now and claimin that they really weren’t so bad is not a door left open to him.
The man has balls.
A pastor using Scripture to make his points to a bunch of non-believers and hyprocrites.
And, as ecahn..said…not dumbing it down, neither.
I had no idea until listening to his introduction last night that he holds multiple Master degrees and a doctorate. Not to mention that he speaks 5 languages and is well versed in linguistics and music.
That’s something that preachers are familiar with. The cliche is the comment from one’s hearers, “Don’t you go from preaching to meddling.”
When looked at like this, preaching is aimed at those other people. When you aim it at me, that’s meddling.
Peterr, I always respect your opinion, but on Reverend Wright, I could not disagree more. His performance at the NPC this morning, in particular the Q&A, was horrible. This is how Dana Milbank of the WaPo saw it.
The Repubs really hate educated people. They don’t know how to deal with them.
demi, you weren’t ’wrong’ i posted it a few times, a month or so ago, read every page on the website, even the shopping…….interesting books. interesting outreach programs.
gotta go, have fun.
Peterr -
i haven’t wanted to go anywhere near a christian church for many years. but listening to wright’s sermons (several times and not just the clips) this weekend was downright inspiring – i’d go to any church where he was preaching (and i don’t even subscribe to his religious beliefs).
Damn elitist!
I thought he condemned the words in the sermon that were offensive.
that was a political move as he knew he was fighting a sound bite. as Rev Wright said, he was being a politician. I wish Obama had stood up for the sermon but he did say the rev was taken out of context. I’m not going to hit obama on that if Ido, I go after Hillary too for her grandstanding and bloviating
The theocrats on the right are much more dangerous then a preacher expressing his right to free speech.
rwcole,
Did you watch the Moyers piece?
The pastor explained it. Obama is a Politician.
I heard a song last week, The miracle is not walking on the water, the miracle is walking on this earth.
I thought the questions were insulting.
correct.
Okay, but what did YOU think of it after YOU watched the whole thing? After YOU watched his entire interview with Bill Moyer? What do YOU think of the medias’ treatment of a preacher?
Peterr!
haven’t seen the Cheney bit repeated yet !
One of the more interesting questions was about Obama’s reaction to the sermons, and Wright had a nuanced answer:
Shorter Wright: Obama had to distance himself from what was reported that Wright said.
That’s a lot different than distancing himself from what Wright actually said. Of course, if Obama wants to make that distinction, it would have been better to have done it shortly after this first blew up.
imo, he was able to combine a personal humility with a serious prophetic call. i think you may have explained, at least in part, how he was able to do that – but showing so much respect to those he spoke to.
Did you see his speech last night at the NAACP? It was a nice way to tel us that we are different but no less valuable.
left you some links downstairs :D
Thank you Peterr. VERY much appreciated to get an opinion from the inside.
I think Jeremiah Wright is spectacular on many levels and I get upset when I see supposed progressive opinion which thinks otherwise:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..98957.html
The man is a patriot in terms of his service, certainly, but even more so in terms of his careful, considered and vociferous dissent. There is no greater case for patriotism than righteous dissent. And anyone who doesn’t know that is no real American.
no, haven’t seen it yet. looking forward to finding an mp3
MSM don’t do apologies.
Just ask Al Gore.
Or John Kerry.
I totally agree and am disappointed that he even went that route.
Ditto
Of course the press would hate it. Wright expected them to be fair & intelligent.
i support rev wright and his right to preach as he sees fit – how come the lamestream media hasnt dissected revs hagee, parsley, robertson etc? its all one big hatchet job and aiming to slow the tide for obama… i see other unseen hands behind all this jus sayin…. its disgusting!!
I think he did well in the Moyers interview.
Today, in the Q&A at the NPC, he was self-indulgent, undisciplined, at times whacky and hurt Obama.
I would be surprised if it isn’t out already. The video went up shortly after his speech ended.
Pure unadulterated racism.
well, i don’t know what he expected. but i loved that he didn’t pretend they were asking reasonable questions.
He showed the Qs all the respect they deserved. They were moronic, and he treated them accordingly.
I watched the NAACP speech on CNN and heard some of the Press Club stuff. The man is brilliant. He spoke truth to power and that’s what the blogs’ have been doing when able. That’s what needs to be done, but the media don’t want truth, they like bread and circuses. They will take sound bites, loop them and feed the masses their daily pablum.
Many people don’t want to hear him, though the truth hurts. I’m am white, rural, raised by red necks and I would be proud to have that man as my minister.
Or the entire American Population.
explain self indulgent when the attacks have been on him and the black church? He name has been maligned and he wanted to make clear that his preaching style, the black church are different but are no less patriotic, christ loving, etc.
That speech Wright gave at NAACP was great. I loved the message he sent about being different not deficient, and at the same time pointing out the hypocrisy of the media and pundits with the lesson. Masterful. Then later on Morning Joe, they sliced and diced the speech repeating over and over Wright saying, “Barak Hussien Obama.”
I don’t think Obama has a chance if the MSM keeps this up and you know they will. First time a presidential candidate will have been swift-boated by what is supposed to be an impartial media.
Yeah- it’s pretty obvious what Obama did and why he did it. The truth would be too complicated to address with the media- it would never be properly reported…
I was only addressing a practical political issue- it’s way too late for Obama to come back and modify his original statement- and he would never bring attention back to this issue in any event- so although he might have a better statement to make- he cannot and will not make it for a variety of reasons.
please don’t go there. i didn’t like being accused of being sexist for not liking senator clinton. racism is a very serious charge – if you have evidence to accuse an individual, then go for it. but otherwise i beg a reconsideration of the general charge.
I disagree. I didn’t find him wacky or undisciplined, and I don’t think “he” hurt Obama….it is the press that continually spins everything and they try to hurt Obama.
Obama can take care of himself….he has so far, no matter what they say. JMHO
Agreed. The candidates should take a look at how he handles dumb ass questions and do the same
and during his press conference he asked this question – did cheeny serve? i may have paraphrased but thats the gist and who went awol? lamestream media can never dear fairly with an articulate african-american unless he’s a toadie and agrees with them – ughhhhhhh…
can you give some examples? i had the opposite reaction – that it was the press and the questions that were self-indulgent, etc.
Much thanks…saved to favs to read later.
I really do appreciate your effort. (hug)
I saw that reaction from Milbank, and I couldn’t help but think that Milbank might be the perfect example of what Wright was talking about at the very top of the speech:
I don’t know how the political ramifications of Wright’s interviews, speeches, and Q&As will play out politically. I do know, however, that the press has done a helluva bad job in doing their job when trying to cover this.
I’ve had to answer questions about my sermons, but never the same question over and over again — the answer to which would be obvious to anyone who had heard, watched, or read it. I think Wright may have gotten a bit too worked up for some in the audience (both in the room and on CSPAN), but under the circumstances, I can understand why.
that should read deal fairly – got a lil worked up…………
Chill out…I’m talking about the media and the constant barrage of black/white/black/white 24/7…I’m not talking about one “individual”..
I think the media is being racist. Period. They are also sexist.
Just a follow up on my OT on last thread. Apparently that is not a government site with instructions to spy on your neighbors. Just wish we didn’t live in a time where that was totally believable. Sorry about any misunderstanding.
I follow you on distancing himself from what Wright was SAID to say rather than what he ACTUALLY said—-but that will be viewed as a blood brother distinction to Clinton’s “It all depends on what the meaning of “is is”".
Clinton was actually correct as well- but that certainly didn’t help him.
That’s it right there.
We know enough about the lazy media to know that they asked lazy gotcha questions and then got insulted at the answers. What Wright said will not prompt them to change their ways. So what will emerge from their anger (shame)?
I’m not thinking candy and flowers.
really funny line (only in hindsight) from the god and gov sermon was something like:
they’re not going to put me on pbs after this one
it depends on the push back but youtube works both ways. the media may be out to write their own stories but the truth exists on the toobz
I would imagine that he and Bill Moyers had a good laugh about that when Bill booked the interview.
Did you think I was calling Juslin racist???? Please reread the comments…I was agreeing..
That is because they aren’t the press or journalists anymore, they are coporate media trying to find the ‘gotch’ moment that will drive their ratings up.
that’s exactly my point. by making the general accusation you paint everyone with the same brush. why not aim a little more carefully at those individuals for which there really is a case?
i have people here grief (including front pagers) for the general accusations of sexism – i’m not going to back off just because the target is a group of people i don’t like.
Tweety and his cohorts are continuing the smears and slander against Rev. Wright!
damn!! tweety has joined the lets get rev wright club – piled his show with no one to speak for rev wright…..
ahhh – we both made the same point ;o)
Today’s Froomkin had a quote from Pamela Anderson from the WHCA dinner Saturday night that fits perfectly:
I don’t think older voters watch much youtube. I think what the MSM is reporting on Obama/Wright is being seen and affects the opinion of these voters that Obama needs to win over, and it is’nt good.
I am interested in seeing Obama elected President. I really find it difficult to believe that anyone really thinks Reverend Wright’s performance was helpful in that regard.
If you don’t believe me, did you hear Axelrod on MSNBC this morning?
Per your heading, Peterr, no they [the media] can’t apologize. They have their scripted day all planned out. It’s all Wright, alla time.
Why, they’ve even got headings, like CNN’s “Blacks Reax”
Racist, much? Yeah, I think so, too.
Aaron Brown explains it: it’s not journalism, it’s television.
Explains, doesn’t excuse.
Back to catch up on reading now.
i thought you were making an accusation of racism to a group of people without enough evidence that the charge was deserved by every member of the group.
did i have that wrong?
Here’s one of the stupid questions asked by The national Press Club:
MODERATOR: In light of your widely quoted comment damning America, do you think you owe the American people an apology? If not, do you think that America is still damned in the eyes of God?
I could care less what tweety thinks or says. The man has the moral compass of a paper bag. I honestly don’t think that this is going to hurt Obama for the GE and I do think that the racist element of the media is raising it’s head. Why not? We have seen that they take their queue from Fox.
I think they are being elitist.
I’m thinking perhaps some spotlighting might be in order.
OT Demi, if you’re here. I left a long reply in EPUland downstairs.
lol!
and you are surprised?
i don’t know if wright is good or bad for obama’s campaign.
but i think wright is good for the country. imo, we need to hear what he has to say.
The MSM is complicit in framing the ideas of Jeremiah Wright as incendiary and dangerous. The implicit racism involved with misunderstanding Wright’s message could be forgiven in that the nature and history of the black church experience is not fully understood outside of that community.
But that isn’t even entering the picture. The MSM has no interest in understanding Wright’s message particularly because it is, at its root, more human and real than anything it has been portrayed as in the press. So, not only does truthful reporting on Wright and his message defeat the organized effort to demonize him (and Obamma by proxy), but it shows — as you’ve pointed out — that he is actually a particularly bad choice for this effort and it would be patently obvious had the MSM done their jobs.
Which would be another really good reason for them to NOT start truthful reporting at this late juncture.
Dana Milbank surprises me though. I have thought, in the past, that he did not have his head entirely up his ass. Perhaps he is in only up to the ears, and not listening is his problem.
the electorate just isn’t for older folks, and these folks are tied into the toobz. I’m just not willing to wring my hands in worry over this because mccain has some seriously crazy ass people on his side and Hillary is a member of some batshit group but the media hasn’t said shit (if that isn’t racism then what is it?)
Anyone got Tweety on? He’s got his own fucking little lynching party goin on..
Tweety, how about Obama will denounce Wright, as soon as McInsane denounces Hagee…! Hmmm…?
its a big media swarm now giving vent to latent racism that’s been simmering for awhile especially since the penn primary and folk admitted they wont vote for an african-american to be potus…. media appears to be particularly gleeful
Here’s another one of the insulting questions asked by The National Press Club:
MODERATOR: You just mentioned that Senator Obama hadn’t heard many of your sermons. Does that mean he’s not much of a churchgoer? Or does he doze off in the pews?
Okay, I’ll go look.
I won’t miss anything here….ha ha.
I can read later. I’m not going to get into any semantical arguments with Anyone this afternoon.
Thanks for your time and concern. Means a lot. Network buddy.
I gave up on Tweety long ago. What did you expect anyway? He’s one of the lazy bunch of know nothing press that asks the stupid questions. Remember when Jon Stewart had him on TDS? Jon was punking him and he was too dumb to notice.
Here’s another one of the belittling questions asked by The National Press Club:
MODERATOR: In your understanding of Christianity, does God love the white racists in the same way he loves the oppressed black American?
its a difference from last week when tweety wasnt quite as strident… today i cant watch this segment
Yeah, that’s always a good question to ask a preacher. “Let me tell you about the folks who don’t show up for my sermons and the folks who sleep through my sermons.”
Well, what I’m saying is that much of the MSM is creating this racially slanted message about Obama. They do the same thing with Clinton by constantly pointing out what gender she is. I don’t hear them going on 24/7 about McCain being white or being a man. I find it to be very racist and sexist, and whoever is producing this stuff and putting it out there wouldn’t do it, if they weren’t prejudiced…. That is what I think. I could name names, but I’m not going to.
Peterr, thank you so much for this timely, superb and inspiring post. I have forwarded it to the half dozen friends I have in North Carolina. And I hasten to add they are progressives whom last I heard were favoring Obama.
Am off to Digg your post and encourage all firepups to do so if they haven’t already hit the Digg link. Thanking you again and with no small affection and blessings.
Yep.
Why are you all surprised? I bet if someone asked these folks, did they actually watch the whole thing or listen to sound bites again, we will get the sound bite answer. it is Monday, no other salacious news is going on. Sorry, this does not surprise me and I don’t think that his campaign should say shit. The pastor was defending his church and his words not Obama’s candidacy
My sentiments exactly, selise.
Is ‘When did you stop beating your wife?’ amongst the questions…?
I don’t know, I thought he might have one person on who didn’t totally agree with everything he said. The two black people should be ashamed of themselves even more than Chris.
i think this is a fair statement.
I’m interested in seeing Obama elected; but I’m more interested in hearing the truth being told. I am NOT interested in having one sacrificed for the other. I do not think Jeremiah Wright is helping Obama’s campaign unless that campaign can find a way to benefit from the truth. They have shown themselves to be an amazingly versatile organization in the past. I would like to see them take this lemon and make lemonade. If they cannot, then the truth should be a hindrance to them. I think, in the long run, that it can help. But this is a multi phased process and it will not be played out in a single soundbite lightning round by the MSM. The same lapdogs will sing a different tune if the Obama campaign can make this a positive aspect of their narrative.
I said the same thing to Mr. LS…I wish he was preaching here…lol
The underlying motivation of the Tweety show is:
To get good ratings- something that he is failing at
To balance his statements in terms of dems and goopers so that neither side quits watching.
He has NO other important agenda- and he doesn’t much care whether his statements are true or false as long as they are PERCEIVED as balancing.
send your calls and letters–national media addresses list, print, tv, radio, mags, have fun with it
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=111
gotta go, have fun.
One of the teachers mentioned over lunch that Obama is against NCLB and in favor of high schools offering classes like auto mechanics. We like the idea, except for the woman who asked, “Does he think we should teach them to love America?” I took that as a Reverand Wright/flag lapel pin comment. Fortunately this woman was a sub.
I agree. I keep hearing, ‘the black candidate’. They don’t refer to hillary and Mccain as the ‘white candidate’.
Here’s the problem—he played right into their hands with his answers. While we here think they were great answers, the press was being mocked. They Do Not Like being mocked. So he and Obama will pay a heavy price for that. Hence Milbank and Tweety and many more to come.
As much as I enjoyed this morning, it left me with a really bad feeling of what it would unleash.
Probably, I was distracted by the cat for a minute there.
Apparently Rev. Wright didn’t get the memo that he should become invisible again.
It is amazing that he spent so much time last evening at the NAACP event explaining the history and traditions of his church, and the media turns around and asks the same questions all over again, and comments on cable news as if they never heard any of it.
Like it never happened.
Thanks gosh CNN played Rev. Wright’s speech at NAACP repeatedly last night. I watched it twice, it was so great to hear the full length version for a change.
And…Obama just can’t seem to connect with the “white” bluecollar workers…I’ve heard that 50 times today alone.
I am against NCLB and in favor of vocational education in high school- so I’m pleased to hear this about Obama….not every kid is goin away ta college.
On a note of disclosure; I’m a pledged delegate for Obama from my precinct…!
why should they be ashamed? every group has their panderers and assholes
Maybe KO?
heaven knows that blue collar workers cross racial lines. I’m pissed that no one in the MSM is questioning this busted ass paradigm
I’ve sworn off Tweety. I can’t deal with the pounding in my head if I listen to so much petty, stupid, mean-spiritedness in one hour.
That won’t be nearly enough to push back. Yes, we love Keith and Jon (he actually will be able to help but with a different demographic) but they only get a small share of the audience that tunes in to news. Most of the deadhead viewers watch no-brain pundits and overpaid anchors who are part of the lazy press corps that asks stupid questions.
Maureen Toad owes Rev. Wright an apology.
I would imagine that the Obama campaign would be pleased if Wright stayed home at church and kept his mouth shut for a while- but it is not to be.
So we need to point out what our choices are: someone who is unfairly bound to another when the other is not the bad guy he’s made out to be and the meaning of “is” in this case was distorted by the press; a real Clinton who consistently lies and distorts with a number of examples, not the least of which is giving McCain big, wet, verbal kisses, while criticizing her campaign opponent if he says anything respectful of McCain; or McCrazy (for this group, I don’t think I need to explain McCrazy!).
don’t hold your breath.
Koppelman has an excellent piece on Salon about this. Lots of food for thought.
OK, I hope you ‘re wrong.
and as I was about to write *sigh* and hit submit comment, it came on the local news -through NBC- just now: Rev. Wright fights back. The piece is not unfair imo
Then they bring in Alan Lichtman criticizing Rev. Wright. But the presentation was, I thought, positive. Will be interesting to if this is the way the NBC nightly news reports it.
You think that those two black gentelman aren’t used to that? On the contrary. It is the whole ‘how dare you mock/ridcule/criticize us’. People of color aren’t strangers to that.
It’s hard for a campaign to call out the press for the press’ misconduct. Whether deserved or not, it smacks of desperation. That being said, the best way to make lemons out of lemonade on this one seems to me to be doing exactly that.
For instance, I’d love to hear an exchange like this . . .
Q: Senator Obama, what is your reaction to the statements of Rev. Wright this morning at the National Press Club?
A: I have to say that I was not terribly impressed with the questions you press folks gave him to work with. Asking a Marine how he or she feels about being an American seems like a bit of a silly question, don’t you think.
I can’t listen to Tweety anymore either, nor the David Gregory show. The MSNBC types are pretty smart though. They throw in Rachel Maddow just often enough that I stay tuned. TV on, sound off.
I get what your saying, and I know you don’t want to piss the press off, but at what point do you not call them on their bull?
Well I’m a confirmed “none of the above but I’ll vote for the winner in the fall” guy…I don’t much care which gets the nomination- their platforms are indistinguishable. My time to vote in the primary is over- I voted for Edwards.
I remain, however, an interested student of politics- and this is a pretty classic situation—Do you try to give the whole story which is seven paragraphs or go with the easier “rejection of his remarks”….the answer is pretty obvious.
If you read the comments left at CNN, you might be pleasantly surprised. Sure there are the morally outraged folks levelling accusations that Wright is a racist but the overwhelming majority are positive. people who thanked the network for running his speech last night where they could see who he really is
I’m disappointed with Obama for not pushing back against Faux Spew when he had the chance…!
Adie: left you a reply downstairs.
I’m sure he has been going there for decades, but pretty high stakes to be taking this on IMO.
Once I heard both speeches in their entirety I thought Obama, or his staff more likely, made a huge mistake with his comments. It showed me that not a one of them had bothered to listen to the sermons. I think responding to attack ads as quick as possible is the right thing to do, but for cryin’ out loud, read the material before taking the test. Rev Wright could have garnered tons of support for Obama. Obama threw that option out the window with his distancing comments. Don’t any of these people have any common sense? No need to answer that. The answer is as plain as the nose on my face.
I don’t think so. So far, my understanding of the Obama message is that Americans can and should do better and that does not mean sitting at home and shutting up. If the Obama bid for Presidency will be thwarted by people like Jeremiah Wright speaking truth to power, if that powers that be and the MSM conspire to make that a reason strong enough for weak willed people to not vote for Barack Obama, then this America does not deserve the best real American candidate in 50 years and God Damn America for it!
and just for the record, i don’t think you had to have heard his sermons to form an educated opinion about this one…… : )
at any cost, take them down……
the sermon clips just took the eye of the public off of the ball….the ball-the same thing that is done to any public official. take them down.
think of how many people could be running for president, but not willing to take that on…or even local office.
that’s what really needs to be talked about in my opinion. the need to knock someone off of the pedestal.
with any weapon that can be found.
everybody does it, that must make it ok /s
gotta go for real this time.
when you have some kind of power base from which to do it.
What is terribly sad is that any of the candidates would stand aside and let this man be swift boated especially given the fact that it has happened to them.
It’s a judgement call, but probably they did the “wright” thing….
To defend the sermons by saying “yer takin em out of context” probably wouldn’t have flown. Americans hear that about every politician who has just fucked up..It’s not clear how they could have delivered a message that was clear and brief enough to do the job.
But it was inevitable that it was going to take place. It sets the expectation that there isn’t going to be any bullshit and pandering ad nauseam
MSM = lack of critical thinkin’
OT, just saw this at Huffpo. You guys have probably been discussing it for hours:
I think you are right. Reacting fast and reacting well are not necessarily the same thing.
That would rock! But you know it will never happen and/or if it did, it would never be reported. Professions are a bastion of hubris. Lawyers don’t like laymen pretending to know the law; Doctor’s abhor alternative medicine practitioners; and, reporters are particularly irascible with being called to task for what has become the industry norm…shoddy research and reporting.
These are only my opinions, but I see your profession as being one of the few exceptions to the rule. Spiritual people don’t seem to have a problem with other people feeling spirited, regardless of whether a seminary school was involved in the path to enlightenment…wonder why that is?
After I began wondering why Obama would so closely associate himself with someone the media was portraying as a neo-Farrakhan, I read one of Wright’s online sermons. It was very illuminating, and moving. Then I watched the Moyers show. It was excellent. Moyers, as usual, did a superb job. And Wright explained himself perfectly logically and sensibly. I understood. Unfortunately, our plutocrat media is far too lazy, self-absorbed, and dependent on the narrative they had already started constructing about Wright and Obama to do the same, not terribly time-intensive research I’d done myself.
If Maureen Dowd had been writing her columns back in the days of Martin Luther King Jr., how would she be describing him? What vile, petty things would she have to say about him?
Jeffrey Weiss (up in the post) managed a good one paragraph answer.
not looking for bullshit or pandering—just a little more adroitness which the Rev. is perfectly capable of. His answers were, for the most part good ones, but . . . . you have to remember who the audience is and it’s bigger than the people sitting in the room.
no they do not.
but we know how well sucking up to them works for dems. it doesn’t.
when i think of who has made the biggest impact – it’s stewart and colbert. and their tools were to tell the truth and to mock (but only for good cause).
i say we back wright.
Oh yeah, and Wright and his associate pastor [said Wright] also have gotten death threats. The church has gotten bomb threats. And journalists have gotten the names of the ill and bereaved out of church bulletins and contacted them for stories – one of them in a hospice.
more Wright spew on Situation Room where somebody named Kevin Madden identifies himself with Republicans and the print label calls him a Democratic strategist?
How Foxy of CNN.
Clinton on Rev. Wright
Excuse me while I go ralph…
The Big City NBC news here at the bottom of the hour leads with it. Not sensationalized, actually sympathetic to the Rev, making a point about the attacks on him and the threats to him and his family.
That’s where I fault Wright at times, too.
But that then is pandering. Not being who you are, or? He is not a politician so why would you expect politician behavior from him? That I don’t understand.
I’m wondering why it took so long for this to get Out there.
Okay, DMac gave us the links weeks ago.
DMac for Somebody’s Press Communicator Job! Can I hear an Amen?
I’m glad Bill Moyers brought this out.
It should have been put out there by the Obama campaign. They could have, you know, made an event out of Let’s Watch It and then talk.
I’m still grateful that we are having this dialogue.
Better later than never.
I so wish this would blow up in the medias faces.
And, not everyone in America watches cable, do they?
Maybe Reverend Wright will inspire other pastors to speak the truth from their pulpits.
or maybe just that he is different and not deficient?
disgraceful
Ask and ye shall receive. One NAACP video in 4 parts. The bit about marching bands that I laughed so hard at is in part 3, about 6 minutes in. I’ve watched FAMU/Grambling halftime shows. Absolutely wonderful. The folks in those bands have more talent in their little fingers than this old white dude has in total. Don’t cheat. Wait for it. It’ll be worth it. Just teasin’ ya with it. His remarks about learning are incredible.
http://www.hiphopmusic.com/200…..video.html
but he’s a prophet (at least that is how i see him) – not a politician.
Yes- It’s a good response- but I can’t imagine it coming out of Obama’s mouth in the heat of the charges about the “God Damn America” sermon:
‘For everyone who has either attacked or defended Rev. Wright, I have a suggestion: Go and do likewise. The text and audio of the whole 40 minutes or so of what is formally entitled “Confusing God and government” were eye-opening to me — and not in one direction. This sermon is profoundly anti-government in general, anti-U.S. government in specific, and boy-howdy anti-George W. Bush. But it’s also a message of hope and redemption with a solid stream of links to bible verses. ‘
I heard about the death threats, but do you have a link for the stuff about the ill, the bereaved, and someone from a hospice?
The truth is not always polite or contrite and that is a problem for mant people
the uppity black man rears his its head….. just go back to shuffling and grinning – good lord its the 21st fucking century already!! americans need to get a grip!
it’s about free speech. If you make it about religion, you lose.
it’s about free speech. leave us to all say what we will, because it is our right.
we don’t have to apologize to anyone, it is our right.
we don’t have to answer to anyone, or be responsible for what someone else says.
because it wasn’t us that said it, it was someone else.
exercising their right to free speech.
get over it.
After watching Moyers on Friday night it all felt great. Super interview and put everything in context. That alone was enough to smooth the waters. This morning it all got stirred up again. I don’t see keeping your “eyes on the prize” pandering, I see it as focus.
Even the prophets know how to shape their message so that it is heard by their audiences. Sometimes they are better at it than at other times, of course . . .
That’s not being political — that’s being an effective communicator.
All very true- but that won’t win elections.
one last thing i wondered–there’s someone i can ask if noone here knows—
was g*d d*mn allowed to be said on the air before this?
i thought it was still gettin’ bleeped……but now everybody’s sayin’ it, quoting it…..a lot.
bbl
Amen.
I can’t see this EVER getting better in the eyes of those voters who were upset about it in the first place—it just has to go away- and that means not reopening the wound.
well, maybe i don’t understand what you wanted him to do.
Or maybe a cultural difference. Just because you would not have done it that way (it is not your social register to be blunt or brutally honest) does not mean that his social register is incorrect or faulty, just that you aren’t used to it and/or it doesn’t fit into what you know to be your social norm. (sorry this is the smae discussion that we have about cultural encounters)
That was on Moyers, I do believe.
bless you and thank you! *g*
Well, reading his sermons, he seems to be talking out of both sides of his mouth. Terrorize Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Well, how about the London blitz, or the firebombing of Dresden? That the Japanese bombing was accomplished with one weapon rather than hundreds is besides the point, IMO. But then He goes on to list Japan as one of the bad guys!
So far as native American terrorism, the tribes were doing it to each other before the white man (See Lewis & Clark). There, the “weapon” was the horse.
I find it despicable that a preacher would blanket condemn a country like God Damn… Who the **** does he think he is? Those that pretend to know the mind of god and see outcomes as evidence of their righteousness get nothing but contempt from me. That’s strong, but I think not to speak out is cowardice.
Is this reality or are we all asleep having a nightmare?
Wake up and stop playing with your toys!
For anyone wanting to read an interesting statement regarding racial tension in this aftermath:
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-5269
Snip:
We repudiate the irresponsible and shameful behavior of the national media for replaying and sensationalizing Rev. Wright’s words out of context simply to accommodate a salacious sound-byte. Quite frankly African Americans articulate and use language differently than whites by juxtaposing words to paint indelible psychological pictures.
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Citizen Peterr and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
This Rev. Wright “thing” is not gunna end up hurtin’ Obama even though the fascist mouthpieces like “Tweety” Mathews are quoting polls that indicate that “it has the potential to bring down” his candidacy. This is the last gasp of the fascist campaign machine as it tries ta choose the weaker of the two Democratic candidates. No, Brother Peterr, the only folks who ken “bring down” Obama’s candidacy are those in elected leadership positions as superdelegates if they unite behind the loser of the primary process. And I don’t think they will as long as Mrs. McClinton is as much of a drag on the down ticket Democrats as she is.
Thank you for the post but I am much more interested in how Mrs. McClinton is runnin’ underneath the fascist racist attack ads in North Carolina and her use of the distortions of the Rev. Wright sermons to run behind the fascist talkin points soon to be seen in Indiana. She’s runnin’ outta money so the REPUBLICAN Party is runnin’ racist attack ads for her…do you get it out there, McClinton-bots?!
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THE TRUTH DOESN’T GIVE YOU CHOICES ANYMORE!!
As an example, the shrug and the salute were a bit over the top, in my opinion.
I see it as an encounter of two different cultures (see #179). This has long been the problem that when we see or hear something different or that doesn’t fit in with what we know, we compare it to what we know. that is fine and dandy but it becomes problematic when we construct a hierarchy that says this one cultural type is better or worse than the other. It is from here that we make our judgments. It’s unfair, unjust and has been going on for centuries
When a congregation is living on a one sided diet—strictly about the Virtue of America and the evil of others- it might sometimes be appropriate for a man of God to give them a dose of the other point of view to balance their diet….I have no problem with that…
why?
just goes to show me anyway that the race problem is still alive and well and needing to be dealt with – but when? its festering badly now…
Thanks — I must have missed that one.
My son asked me “when do they have commercials” as I was watching it. I laughed, and stepped away for a moment to help him with something.
mkay…
You say you listened to the sermon, but given what you just wrote, i dunno
Firebombing of London does not justify what the Brits did to every single German city they could reach, and what the U.S. did to Toyko (where more innocent civilians were killed by firebombing a wooden city than in the atom bomb strikes), Hiroshima & Nagasaki. And yes, I damn the U.S. for doing that, and the U.S. deserves such a damning. Nor does how the natives treated each other justify obliterating them. You’re the one who needs to wake up and look at the real history of the U.S.
To be truthful, the way I see it, Obama has bigger fish to fry than lashing out at every incident of misrepresentation by the press and by his opponents. That’s what we and his other supporters are here for. (In case nobody has noticed, he intends to make us all more involved citizens. I don’t think he means just bloggers. I think his idea of government is to take a lot of stuff directly to the people when he can’t get his programs through Congress!) IMHO, he’s right when he says:
I don’t think it had to be brief. Just because the media’s brains are on 30 second timers doesn’t mean everybody’s is. Maybe it’s just me, but had I been on Obama’s staff my first questions would have been where did these come from and where can I find them. Then I’d have released them AFTER I made some of the lizard brains listen to them. They don’t have 73 minutes to give to the truth? Regardless of the turnout, his remarks about social justice merit repeating every day.
The killing of innocents in mass quantities for the purpose of winning a war is now standard operating procedure…
Please see my link at #183 – I think you’ll like it.
Peterr, I say the same to you.
America has a race problem and a media problem. The 4th Estate has morphed into a courtesan class obsessed with celebrityhood, 7 figure salaries, controversy and ratings. Aside from a very few voices of reason in the traditional media the new 4th Estate resides on the internet. The old media is dead! Long live the new media. Say good night Judith Miller.
This from someone who goes by a Battlestar Galactica handle…LOL!
demi at 163-”DMac for Somebody’s Press Communicator Job! Can I hear an Amen?”
that’s exactly what i did today……got up at 6 and after awake called extension with a question from the local radio owner, about subsidies…..asked him if he would be on the radio again, called the radio station, talked to the weekly host, she said yeah, she’d call him right then…..
got the extension agent for our county booked for the call-in show tomorrow……gardening, etc, they do a lot of things…..but the host is also interested in the farm bill : )
only ONE week to get stuff out about the farm bill pups, get on it.
then emailed an aquaintance at the local tv station, and he gave me email for the booker for ’special interviews’ and they are in the process of booking him.
and included name and number of someone at the farm services bureau who could do a spot about the farm bill…….and why maybe that would be a good idea to do it this week.
then sent a thank you note and follow-up note to jane, christy, siun and kirk. hope they read them. kirk did.
sludge is next.
the information fdl provides to us, the information, get it out…..it’s powerful stuff all on it’s own…
truth rises to the top all by itself, all you gotta do is give it a vessel…….ewwww i like that, i just made that up!
gotta go, master gardener meeting and i still need a shower……
take care.
It’s always been there and it isn’t always racism. Sometimes it is a failure to recognize that this country is a country of immigrants and that there are differing cultures within the country that dictate how and with what we are socialized.
His speechlast night gave the example of how different churches can worship. People forget or don’t think that something can be done differently from what they know, it fucks with their mind. So we have this idea that ‘this’ is how you properly worship or talk or interact with one another. It is a complex thing but it really does go beyond race, race is just one component of the ‘us’ versus ‘them’ mindset.
Maybe it would have worked- lock the reporters in a room and make em listen to whole sermons? Apparently Obama thought otherwise.
Damn right! And incidentally, Jeremiah Wright has paid his dues. As he said, he served six years as a marine; he was in LBJ’s operating room! What did Cheney serve, other than special interests and himself, that is?
heh, I’m one white man that isn’t voting for McInsane…! ;-)
It was discussed on Moyers.
Hello Peterr – I’m late to FDL today.
Bill Moyers gave an honest interview and asked honest questions because he is an honest man. A dishonest person could not do this. Rev. Wright responded in kind. There is nothing more wonderful than two honest people speaking directly.
The intent of the media and the Repugs in NC is to assassinate Obama. They want to get him. It doesn’t take a bullet to assassinate or a noose to lynch a black man. We are watching the ugliness play out before us in MSM by every media executive.
I listened to Wright’s entire speech and I agreed with it. MSM had to snip, clip, splice, elevate sound, distort to get their lie out to the American public, duping the public.
When a preacher is “at home,” there is a well-understood vernacular and vocabulary that both the preacher and hearers share. When a preacher is a guest in someone else’s church, you can’t take for granted that the language and vocabulary will translate.
Here I think he might have been better served to let his verbal answer to that question carry the weight of his response.
That is what we are writing about and arguing about in terms of Travel narratives (rather how people from one culture depict another culture)
Thanks
Well done Peter. Sorry I’m so late to the thread, my toobz were offline most of the afternoon.
tech upgrades, Gah!
Jane’s new post is about McCain Adviser’s head exploding! It’s ready now!
I like it, too. Thanks!
this i already know – i am a person who worshipped for years in churches very similar to rev wright’s church – i think it’s all a move to slow obama’s momentum but its unleashed racist sentiment in the country………
Gotta go feed the squirrels before it rains. Later.
Well wasn’t his style and vernacular what got him invited in the first place? I really don’t get the resoning here except it sounds like don’t be so ‘other’ that it frightens us (even though that is why we like you to begin with)
Thank Peterr, won’t be the last we’ve heard of this, eh?
Well, thank Goddess there are some inquiring minds that want to read something more than a line by line smackdown of what who said when and what they should have said or done as a reattion. ‘Cause for me that gets kinda old.
but that’s the thing, you keep focusing on the race component and it’s more than that. It is the way they talk (the way it is characterized), the actions they make while talking (remember Obama brushing off his shoulder?) it is a factor of things that don’t fit into what one grou says is acceptable social conduct.
i’ve got to disagree with you this time.
because the “church” he was visiting was a white establishment elite church, and i’m not going to advocate that a member of a marginalized culture be expected to leave their culture and their true selves at the door. too much baggage with that.
Style may have been part of it, but there are lots of preachers out there with style. What got him invited to the National Press Club is that he is seen to be newsworthy or controversial or timely or a hundred other things that he is and the rest of us aren’t.
It’s coming up shortly on NewsHour. Let’s see how the “liberal” PBS does it.
tell me about it. It is like someone created a handbook on acceptable conduct and forgot to give some of us a copy
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Firepup Freedom Fighters:
I watched Rev. Wright’s speech to the NAACP yesterday and the Press Club presentation this mornin’ and I want to say something very directly to everyone here at FDL: If Mrs. McClinton and her husband were really interested in healing the divisions in our country and turning the fascist war machine out of office and the corporatists out of power, they would BOTH stand up on the podium with Obama and condemn what has gone on with the Rev. Wright slander and they would condemn the fascist Republican Party for runnin’ racist attack ads against Obama in North Carolina and anywhere else.
Why have we not seen or heard Mrs. McClinton condemn the distortions and outright lies that attack the Black church and the entire Black community in America? Why have we not heard real outrage from the McClinton camp over the current crop of racist ads in North Carolina…it’s interestin’ that at the time when McClinton is runnin’ outta money and outta primaries, her fascist enablers run ads like these to poison Obama’s base.
If Mrs. McClinton really had the statesperson chops to be President, if she was really more interested in the health and future of her country than her own political and economic well being, she would be out in front of this to the benefit of the Democratic Party, the mass of citizens of the United States and, yes even her own candidacy. She is not and therefore does not deserve a single vote in her efforts to kill what’s left of our democracy.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, IF WE DON’T HANG TOGETHER WE’RE ALL GUNNA HANG OUT IN THE GULAGS!!
i disagree – its the racism as i see it – its why obama wont go after hrc – if he goes on the attack he’ll be raked even more over the coals….
or as the prophet says, “different, not deficient.”
You are most welcome.
I find this very interesting in a theological/political/people watching kinda way.(I love humanity, it’s people I can’t stand — or is it the reverse?)
Thank You for all your work here.
touche!! well said again norske
Style? no not style, this can’t be reduced to simply style. have you ever watched how a group of blacks or latinos interact with one another? it is cultural not style.
Right on, Citizen juslin…right fuckin’ on!!!
No, I’m not saying he should have left it at the door. Not at all. But I think at times the reaction from the NPC guests (the folks who were part of the conference he mentions at the very outset) gave him the feeling he was “back home” and he forgot that he wasn’t.
Note also that Wright was authentically himself in the Moyers interview. There, he spoke in ways that fit the sit-down, low-key, one-on-one setting. It’s not that he played nice in the “white establishment” setting of PBS — it’s that he knew his interviewer (by reputation at least), and knew how to engage him well.
I’ve got to get going and cook dinner, but I’ll be back this evening to see whatever comments get left.
Thanks, everyone!
agree.
Yes but if you have a black or latino that are republican (let’s take alan Keyes or any of the right wing talk show people) they aren’t cast as other. that is why to simply say it is based on race doesn’t cover the whole us and them mentality
Wright story on NewsHour now
with moyers he was answering questions that were not idiotic.
i don’t expect him to treat idiotic demeaning questions questions in the same way as moyer’s questions. the difference wasn’t wright, imo it was the questions.
Wouldn’t that then have more to do with the setting as opposed to ‘playing nice to the white establishment’? That setting has been totally different from the other events where he has appeared to talk/preach.
I really just see this as a cultural clash
WB we’ll just have to disagree – i aint mad atcha but i know a lil something ;o}
On now on Newshour where I’m at.
repeating the stoopid questions and his answers.
“let me try to respond in a non-bombastic way”
What is the proper response? What was the proper thing to do at Midway, shake a finger at them? Or, maybe we should have given the Japanese every thing they demanded so as to avert WWII in the Pacific..
I hate as much as any one here the things , the atrocities which have been committed in our name. At the same time, I also recognize that we are not alone, both in the negative and positive aspects of the history since the late 1600’s. I simply want to point out that there is no solution to be found in slinging mud like God damn anyone!!
damn. backup is done. break is over. catch you all later…
I never watched Battlestar Galactica. I picked it for a different reason, then found out later.
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Citizen wobblybits:
“Yes but if you have a black or latino that is Republican…they are not cast as other.”
Yes……? And, therefore…? Let me explain it to ya, the corporate propaganda machine presents those with the “correct” politics as real Americans and those who don’t as “others”…get it, it ain’t fuckin nuclear physixx fer Christ’s sake!!
KEEP THE FAITH AND KEEP THINKIN…YOU’LL GET IT!!
Obama’s quote responding to Wright was just AWFUL! Don’t have a link just saw it on the teevee
Wright getting trashed on PBS. No one is talking about how stupid the questions were. They are all throwing him under the bus and saying that he’s taking Obama with him.
I wonder if Obama saw the speech, or was played snippets, or was given the gist of it. Sure could have been better.
I’m not saying that you don’t to the contrary. I was just saying that racism is based upon someones race butwhen you listen to how and why they criticize, it is their linguistic style or their gesticulation and that is a cultural issue that has been filed under racism but when we just call it racism we fail to see this same thing play out among groups that are the same race but have other differences (religion).
that was my only point. I certainly was not dismissing you or that you don’t know what your talking about. i guess I’m wanting to expand on the racism to incorporate the other issues)
lots.
He blew it. They all blew it. All of the talk is about how they distance themselves from one another and how that is no longer possible.
What was it? you can type from memory
This was in reference to cultural differences versus racism so slow your roll and read ALL that we were discussing
1,826 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Firepup Freedom Fighters:
We can pick up the Reverend Wright slander and turn it to the advantage of the Democratic Party and the American people if we simply challenge Mrs. McClinton to condemn the attacks on Wright and Obama that have come outta this. I am also convinced that McClinton could still do herself some good if she rose above the racist poison and stood beside Obama on this…however, our strategy as progressives has gotta be to tattoo this and the attack ads in North Carolina right to McClinton’s forehead.
And I’m still waitin’ to hear from McClinton-bots supportin’ her support of the slanders.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, NOT ALL FASCISTS CALL THEMSELVES REPUBLICANS!!
I don’t need you to explain shit to me as I ‘m no child. This is an area of research I’m conducting on cultural encounters and what happens when these encounters occur (stereotypes, misunderstanding, etc.) Political beast aside this shit has been going on for centuries.
slow your roll
Hey, I like that!
A lot.
i see your point and get what you’re saying but it still comes down to race – i just see it that way… you do have valid points nonetheless as i said i aint mad atcha
no, let me try to go back on the dvr. . .
“I have said befire and I will say again that some of the comments Rev. Wright has made offend me and I understand why they have offended the American people . . . Certainly what the last three days indicate is that we are not coordinating with him.”
ugh.
Feel free to use it, I picked it up from my friends (who happen to be black *g*)
1,826 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen wobblybits:
“Political beast aside this shit has been goin’ on for centuries.”
Yes it has and it has been studied ta death but it’s still alive. And ya know why it ain’t dead yet…’cuz folks have strudied it ta death and still end up blamin’ the victims in order to get their fuckin’ research published.
“Political beast aside…” nothin’ my friend, that’s what it is, don’tcha get it…it IS part a the political beast!!!
KEEP THE FAITH AND YA CAN’T STUDY THIS THING AWAY!!
So now your talking out the back of your neck because you have no idea what I’m researching. Just to enlighen you on that front, I’m not researcing it from a blame side, i am looking at the possibiltiy for one culture to write about another culture objectively and why that is or is not possible.
Congratulations!
The word “culture” has been expanded of late. It’s not clear that it now means what it meant to- say- Margaret Mead
Culture includes those things that a group of people share (it includes language, social morays, etc.) That has been the definition in academia for a while.
1,826 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen wobblybits:
The point is, Citizen, in the context of today’s discussion and politics we don’t need no more stinkin’ research…simple as that. Outside of the context of this post and the larger political and social context of this election, certainly more study of the cultural differences in communication are worthwhile intellectual endeavors but within the context of the very real almost existential political problem we are discussin now I will repeat: We don’t need no more stinkin’ research, we know what the problem is and it ain’t “them” it’s US!
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THE PROBLEM WON’T GO AWAY IF WE STUDY IT SOME MORE!!
We weren’t discussing this simply in terms of only the political. How people interpret his speech, gestures were in context of social norms. So i don’t know why you are pontificating about people who conduct research just because you feel you are beyond it. My research is historical and funny but it still applies to how we interact with each other and I and others willcontinue to research in these areas so as to try to understand our fellow man and maybe enlighten some folks along the way. So you will excuse me that I don’t give a damn what you think.
Love him, hate him, Reverend Wright is not now going to quietly into the night. Woulda, coulda, shoulda, it sounds to me like Obama’s candidacy, at least its initial meaning to the populace, especially youth, is screwed. The reaction to today’s press conference–it’s like watching a train wreck. This is the kind of disillusion that leads me to wonder, if only the Democrats could draft Elizabeth Edwards.
You suggesting there is nothing more to be learned?
he shouldn’t go quietly. There are people who tried to tear down and belittle and demean his body of work over the course of decades. No one gets to define who you are unless you let them.
Wright is deliberately “misunderstood” for pure power political gain in
this electoral process, it is no mystery, and will continue as long as
the press enables the campaigns that are doing it and the poll numbers
justify it by showing an effect on the obama candidacy.
peterr at 229-”but I’ll be back this evening to see whatever comments get left.”
many amusing things in this thread, but this one wins….
: )
wobblybits, I am grateful for your clear thinking. I’d love to read your academic writing.
“Note also that Wright was authentically himself in the Moyers interview.”
Seemed like he was in his narcissistic and egotistical element at the NPC and NAACP appearances.